zerdox
350410
12017
105
Saw a pretty interesting article on a North Korean Defector
(Added pictures so it wouldn't be that tedious to read)
"I lived in North Korea for the first 15 years of my life, believing Kim Jong-il was a god. I never doubted it because I didn't know anything else. I could not even imagine life outside of the regime."
It was like living in hell. There were constant power outages, so everything was dark. There was no transportation – everyone had to walk everywhere. It was very dirty and no one could eat anything.
It was not the right conditions for human life, but you couldn't think about it, let alone complain about it. Even though you were suffering, you had to worship the regime every day.
"I had to be careful of my thoughts because I believed Kim Jong-il could read my mind. Every couple of days someone would disappear. A classmate's mother was punished in a public execution that I was made to attend. I had no choice – there were spies in the neighborhood.
My father worked for the government, so for a while things were relatively OK for me compared with some others in North Korea. But my father was accused of doing something wrong and jailed for three years. He being guilty made me guilty too, so whatever future I had in North Korea completely disappeared. I could no longer go to university, and my family was forced to move out of Pyongyang to the countryside on the border close to China."
"After a few years, my father became very sick with cancer and he came out of jail for treatment. During this time, we decided to leave North Korea.
We had to cross a frozen river in the middle of winter to sneak across the border into China. I was very scared – not of being caught but of being shot. If they see someone escaping, they don't ask, they just shoot them.
North Korean refugees are not recognised in China, so we had to be careful there. My parents brought a small amount of money with them, and my mother got a job washing dishes. I did not know any Chinese and couldn't say anything in Korean in case I was deported, so I had to pretend I could not speak.
I hid in the apartment most of the time. If I saw a policeman, I would run. I could not take a train because they would do certification checks. It was really miserable.
My father died of cancer in that first year and soon we had used all of our money. Around this time we met some South Korean missionaries. They said we could finally be free if we could make it to South Korea."
"We didn't want to live in China without my father, but we didn't have any money to pay for disguises to get us into South Korea, so we bought a compass and we walked across the border between China and Mongolia through the desert in winter. Once in Mongolia, we were protected and some soldiers contacted South Korea where we were accepted as refugees.
This whole time, I was still so brainwashed that I thought Kim Jong-il could read my mind from afar. Even though I had escaped, I wouldn't let myself think anything negative about the regime.
When we arrived in South Korea they took us to an Education Centre for several months. I learned that Kim Jong-il was a dictator, but I was still confused when I left – it wasn't enough time to fully change my mind.
After I came out of the centre, I met new people, started to study using the internet, and read lots of books. I found out about socialism, communism and capitalism. I learned new things and finally saw the truth.
I realised that everything I thought was a lie. I had not been a real person – I was created for the regime to work for them. If they ordered us to die, I would've died for them. I wasn't a human – I was something else. I certainly wasn't treated like one. I knew nothing of freedom. It took about three years to fully get over the brainwashing."
Full Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6-BtNKKvU
Update : This is NOT me. Been getting messages ...
NancRushen20
Actually the whole world has done as much as it can with China blocking every attempt at sanctions/intervention.
predatoreyes
Some of my female students in South Korea would joke that they feared the day when North and South Korea would reunite because the women (1)
predatoreyes
(2) from North Korea are famous beauties and the men from South Korea are the most handsome, so there wouldn't be anyone left to marry!
zoinkadoink
interesting fact. there are no visible cars in Pyongyang on Google maps
ChuckTingleBattlesTheAssGoblinsofAuschwitz
Yes there are
ScottLHolmes
Very few
NorthKoreabestKorea
It's posts like this that make me feel like my username may have been in bad tastes.
Amonrob
Yeah best Korea at being shitty!
Aramahn
Not gonna lie. I lol'd. We're going to hell. But at least we'll be going together.
awkwardbonersdotcom
dont stress, we'll just carpool 'cos theres gonna be a few of us
dearleaderkimjong
Ditto.
thesupremeleader2
i know that feel
xactfoxy
Full video: 56 seconds.
Mannythebearpig
You my friend have lived a life most interesting. With a powerful story to tell. Would love to hear more.
p34ce
This isn't his story, this is Yeonmi Park. The link at the bottom of the text, click it.
dangermousenz
When his dad finally passed, I thought things might have a chance to get better over there... What the hell
BayazTheBenevolent
Didn't really get better or worse. Regimes like the one in NK would crumble from even the slightest change in direction.
zerdox
I found the Actual full video (Instead of the expert in the description) 1/2
Eloreon
greatly appreciated! definitley worth the watch
zerdox
http://www.businessinsider.com/yeonmi-park-talks-about-growing-up-in-north-korea-2014-4 (2/2)
HelloAlanRickmanItsAlanRickman
Thank you! I was wondering about that. It doesn't seem like many people actually tried clicking on the link...
Imonthebrutesquad
OP, I read Nothing to Envy by Barbara Demick which talks about several people who left North Korea. It was haunting and I think about it
Imonthebrutesquad
almost every day. So glad that you made it out. Best of luck to you in the future and to any family you have out there.
wetfart92
All things aside, she is pretty attractive
mylifeisasatire
I mean sure, but there's also way more to her than just looks. She probably has the most resilient personality now, my goodness.
ignatiuspopular
god I wish that place had oil so it could get freed
TheVirginQueen
Big Brother is watching
Giraffeeatingabanana
You deserve more points
Matocuuri
In North Korea Bog Brother is watching you!
BuskyChowChow
dat sash...
ToranagaTheShogun
I tend to say NK is equal if not worse than what Orwell predicted. Anyway it's interesting that there seems to be a recipe for such a state.
[deleted]
[deleted]
ToranagaTheShogun
Yes of course, I meant the recipe to get a state like that to work, not the scale.
Igottopcommentoncewhichisnice
chocolate rations have been increased i hear
jukiflorez
25 grams! doubleplusgood!
ATemporailyEmbarrassedMillionaire
+1 for george orwell
shadowex3
North Korea takes repression to a whole new level, I don't even call them a dictatorship... it's a Prison State.
skellious
it's not even that, prisoners have rights.
ProteinFarts
You know if you travel to China to escape someplace worse, it must be pretty horrible
Inchpunch
All in favor of renaming North Korea 'Superjail'
ToxicPineapple
Mortality rate between NK and Superjail is probably about the same. :(
momsaidno
It follows Stalin's model. The dude killed 23 million people in 1937-38.
SirusKing
He killed many, but not quite that much. In total he had a kill count of about 20 million.
momsaidno
20 million people died from his famine in 1933 in Russia alone. I'm including all the people he killed not just the ones given a trial.
SirusKing
~20 Million Soviets died during stalins regime. INCLUDING from the famine. Your figures are skewed.
momsaidno
1/2 Even if it was just ~20 million Soviets, that still leaves millions of foreign nationals. 10 million died in Ukraine in 1932-33.
momsaidno
2/2 regardless, my point is that Stalin killed a shit ton of people and Kim Jong Il learned it from him.
goodSamaritan
lol, talking about dictatorship and prison state, how about in good ol' murica can someone be thrown into a jail without a court if they...
lokeanpriest
It not untrue. American government is the worst kind of villain--the one that smiles to your face and plunges a knife to your back.
NationalistCanadianMooseWarrior
in north korea if you are seen as a "threat" you are publicly executed. Big difference.
FelipeRios
Nobody mentioned America
goodSamaritan
..are seen as a "threat". Murica is quite close to that, yet they do it in a more civilised way(away from people's eyes) false sence of free
MrJimmyC
Completely different ends of the scale though!
NotACanadian
Sad how nobody does jack about it.
douchebagness
A nuclear war sure would be worth it :P
jakeonehalf
I think China believes the person that takes North Korea will have some advantage so they let North Korea be as weak as possible.
thehappiestpersononimgur
If that is the case, then why wouldn't China just take over North Korea?
Thekingofbeans
Actually the whole world has done as much as it can with China blocking every attempt at sanctions/intervention.
Lasmodoe
Then let's kill china. Start a war, let millions of innocent people and a save a state in which the people aren't treated like humans..fuck
Thekingofbeans
"let's kill China." How is starting World War 3 better for the world?
Lasmodoe
'Twas a joke, this is much more complicated then starting a war.
ianpaschal
1. I've always wondered if NK citizens were actually brainwashed, or just had to act like they were happy with how things are. Really
ianpaschal
2. interesting to find out it's a bit of both, and to hear it from an ex-citizen herself.
AiriEnv
Very sad that even now adays we still live with this. I dont know why no one pays attention to this.
Thekingofbeans
Because this has been going on for over 60 years and there's nothing anyone can do as long as China is protecting the current regime.
p34ce
Lots of people pay attention to this. It's brought up all the time. There isn't much we can do about it, they have to do it themselves.
deranger
Who's they?
Gymnopedies
The proles. Only hope is in the proles
deranger
non-connected north koreans?
TheOtherAlan
This is pretty average story from DPRK refugees. Even in South Korea some of these escapee's have to stay hidden because of DPRK spies
TheOtherAlan
These DKRP spies would find the family still in North Korea and they would be sent to worth/death camps.
OobedoobScoobyDoobyBenubi
I'm not one for war, but I really can't wait until someone goes in there and gets rid of that regime.
ThisCommentWasAutomaticallyGeneratedByImgurViralizer
"Someone"
Thekingofbeans
The USA is currently at war with North Korea. China has blocked all military intervention and UN sanctions for over 60 years now
bobsheadthreateningly
I think I read some where that South Korea is technically still at war with North Korea too.
Thekingofbeans
Yes, The USA and South Korea are allies on the ongoing Korean War which is currently in an armistice.
mbec
there's a really cool documentary on netflix about north korea, nat geo sent cameras under cover there along with a dr. doing (1)
TintreachToirneach
Here's one from BBC, presenter went to NK school where they're taught a bit about the West: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOh9eZlOUw
mbec
it's called "inside north korea"! sorry for the delay on that :) it's available on netflix.
tralynne17
I saw that documentary.
mbec
laser surgery treatments. the documentary does a really good job of showing how crazy strict the government it. definitely worth the watch!
mbec
le ugh. *is. -____-
PizzaTammer
Do you know the name of it?
shithappenswhenyoupartynaked
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xybxxr_national-geographic-inside-undercover-in-north-korea_news here's a link to it
WhyCantPeopleUseSmallerUsernames
that ending is really creepy, no regards to the surgeon, but the fact that there 'great leader' brought their sight back.
playitonrepeat
what is it called?
albatross17
seriously though i think its called inside North Korea
albatross17
red dawn
flyingeddies
HBO did one too with the Globetrotters going over there. The "show" Korea put on to make it seem normal was so over the top and creepy.
ICantBelieveThisUsernameWasStillAvailable
What's this one called?
flyingeddies
VICE episode 10
Idownvoteifunnyand9gagrepoststoimgur
That scene with the computer lab was the creepiest shit ever. Nobody typing, totally automated screen activity.
technicolorgirls
Whats the title?
flyingeddies
VICE episode 10
sweetpeasoup
I'm not trying to be funny or whatever but her story honestly reminds me of something out of the Hunger Games books. I'm happy she's free-er
humpbackwhale
Me too! The terrible living conditions, power outages, and people disappearing. Sounds just like Hunger Games!
sweetpeasoup
I'm not sure if you read the last book or even the second one but there's a lot in there too that is reminiscent but I won't spoiler it
humpbackwhale
I've read the 2nd book but I didn't make it through the 3rd. But yes, I completely agree.
sweetpeasoup
The 3rd was my least favorite, 2nd was favorite. If you can, you should finish it before the movies come out :D
humpbackwhale
2nd was definitely my favorite. But the 3rd was just going so slowly and I'm a terrible reader as it is!
AfterAllThisTime
I had the exact same thought...
chepep41
read as "north korean defecator"
ILearnedANewWayToSayHooray
same here, was actually disappointed when i read the story
HopAboardTheNopeTrain
Well. I think we can all agree that Kim Jong-il is crazy as fuck. Agreed?
Thekingofbeans
well... was.
Batmando
I swear, the more I read this, the bigger my frown got..+1
bobbyflei
Lucky that you AND your family made it out. Most defectors come out by themselves
Markuspsyches
Sometimes the kids will even rat out the parents' plans, cause that's what they are told to do by their dear leader >.>
TJsAwesomeName
"I had not been a real person - I was created for the regime to work for them." Powerful stuff. OP I'm so sorry for what you had to endure.
asdfghjklx
OP didn't endure it, but ya
Matrican
Very impressive story, kinda sad as well. +1 OP, thanks for sharing.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Matrican
I don't think OP is the one in the video, I think he just shared the story. Should ask OP him/herself to confirm this ofc.
UsChickens
"Kinda" sad?
Matrican
Yeah, it is sad about what happened, but I am quite happy that everything seem to go well in the end.
UsChickens
I think you maybe need to stop looking to Disney for your definition of a "happy end".
Matrican
What are you talking about? I am just speaking my mind atm.
UsChickens
You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that "speaking your mind" means you can't be wrong.
lagrickjames
OP did a good job with the caption, which was much more descriptive than that video, so props to OP for this insight
MeesterMooster
I don't understand. Is OP the person in the video or is he/she just telling a story based on the person in the video?
IDidntKnowWhattoMakeMyUsernameSoIMadeThis
Sorry but I don't think kinda covers it
Frodoniku
agreed.
Matrican
I think it is "kinda" sad, because everything went well in the end, which is great. And it made me happy, everything before it was sad.
Jambra97
I'd find it hard to be Kim Jong Unimpressed
llgs
Business Insider's interesting article about these stories: http://www.businessinsider.com/did-kim-jong-un-execute-his-ex-girlfriend-2013-8
[deleted]
[deleted]
Matrican
Cheers, I will take a look into it. :)
StevenFarmer
How sad is it that CHINA is a better alternative?
Playswithtiddies
China in many ways is more America than 'murica, from my last trip there and the people I know there. Try not to be a closed minded..farmer
StevenFarmer
I've farmed Stevens my whole life, no call for it in China.
Playswithtiddies
hehe
NotACanadian
Do you grow the Phteven cultivar?
StevenFarmer
Nope, organic Stevens and little petite Steves.
Supyall
This is pretty false. I've been living here for 6 months so far as an expat, and from talking with my co-workers, it's bad here here.
Playswithtiddies
no that is false. Define bad? I was living in Shanghai and people did whatever they wanted and even talked about whatever they wanted...
Supyall
How long were you here? Do you know anything about the political situation in China at all? It's too much to say in 120 chars.
Playswithtiddies
as long as it wasn't some kind of open demonstration. The government is tight and it's not US way of running the country but I didn't feel
Playswithtiddies
out of place or mistreated. There were 7 Elevens and all kinds of entertainment, I watched the local TV stations and brainwashing wasn't as
[deleted]
[deleted]
Playswithtiddies
I'm actually Asian American but I've never been to China till that trip. You'll have a lot of fun, they love Americans. I have a lot of (2)
figsbar
Because people act differently, a lot of people almost hero worship westerners, but also a lot of people view them as dumb foreigners
Playswithtiddies
(2) white friends and co-workers who love to visit there. This is not in the 50s or even 80s anymore.
Supyall
China's good at hiding its shit.
Playswithtiddies
yes I agree, it is. Is it even close to N.Korea's living condition or situation? Please...
Playswithtiddies
if you think the US of A is fully transparent, then I'm afraid to break the bad news. Yes I would prefer to live here no doubt.
Playswithtiddies
If you've been to Singapore or Malaysia, China is just a bigger version. Governments hide their shit well, look at our beloved 'Murica
Playswithtiddies
but China is not even close to how bad people think it is
wasntmedude
Why does the world tolerate this horroshow regime?
SerialKitten666
Because we're too cowardly to accept the risks like we used to. I fail to see how this situation is different than WW2 honestly.
coolaggro
They're not invading us or any allies as of right now. That's the difference. We didn't fight WWII to save Jews, we fought it to stop Hitler
Geistbar
(1) The cost in lives, time, and money for others to take them out of power is too high. Likely, millions of civilians would die.
LocutusOfBored
They don't have oil.
Roy28
People say that it's because China has their back. People have the power to change this, yet turn a blind eye or couldn't be bothered with.
comrademittens
Late to the comment party, but everyone in Seoul is taught that the entire city would be wiped out within 10 seconds if there was ever a war
comrademittens
Sorry, not just Seoul but SK. They're just much more aware of it in Seoul.
Katinku
nuke power
DisgruntledFerret
China.
SerialKitten666
North Korea isn't trying to take over the world, so we leave them be. We don't want to get messy if we don't ABSOLUTELY have to
BayazTheBenevolent
Because the world is a conglomerate of countries whose best interests lie not in the well being of other countries but in their own matters.
Geistbar
(2) Then, after, they would then need to occupy and rebuild North Korea -- I think we learned the difficulty of that with Iraq/Afghanistan.
IAmMoonMoonhearmederp
I thought it was because China had their back?
Geistbar
That's another factor, but China isn't as adamant about any of the African countries that do poorly either. War and occupations are hell.
SerialKitten666
But we did it for Germany and multiple other countries in Europe during WW2...? How is this situation really different? Explain.
Geistbar
(Edit) I meant to say Japan was developed, not well educated. I'm unsure of education quality for WW2 Japan.
bobbi21
wouldn't even be able to take over South Korea. Remember, countries were VERY hesitant to wage war on Germany even after they started 2
Theertzuinianer
The well being of their citizens at all and may even use them as hostages if any others means fail, which would be a Situation 5/?
Theertzuinianer
That would be extremely difficult to handle ethically
Theertzuinianer
It to a new level of inhumanity right now. The only reason NK is not dealt with is, that the rulers of this country show no interest in 4/?
Geistbar
(1/?) Germany was a highly educated, culturally western, developed nation, that was deeply terrified of prospective Soviet rule.
Theertzuinianer
Don't geht me wrong he was a horribly misguided and possibly insane powerhungry man and i don't simpathize in any way, but NK just takes 3/?
bobbi21
taking over countries. Only when those countries felt imminently threatened did they wage war. Noone is really threatened by NK 3
Geistbar
(2/?) Japan, similarly, was well educated, and completely defeated in a way that ensured some measure of... respect?... from their culture.
Theertzuinianer
About nazi germany ( in german highschool) think you cannot even compare the cruelties the kims have done to the ones of Hitler 2/?
Geistbar
(5/5) the lies their whole life would be intense. They are trained to see us as their greatest enemy, to see us as monsters. It'd be hell.
Geistbar
(4/) Just look at this image -- the woman believed a dictator could read her mind. The partisan warfare from people who believed --
Theertzuinianer
Honestly...(i know not exactly the subject) I, bring well informed about northkorea and having been taught what feels every single detail1/?
Geistbar
(3/?) NK, on the other hand is not developed; it is not well educated. For 60 years the people have been brain-washed to *worship* the Kims.
greenf1sh
Because no one outside of the NK populace stands to gain anything from toppling it.
deranger
I realize you want to be cynical, but it's really not that simple. NK's allies and NK WMDs are factors on top of human imperfection
asdfghjklx
Dunno why you got downvoted for that, seems true enough to me.
BrumpoTungus
Do they really have allies though? And methods to deploy WMDs?
HolyMothaBendezzo
North Korea has no allies. Other than, you know, China. I'm sure the US would love to mess with them.
greenf1sh
Yeah, I am a bit cynical, mainly because of the fact nothing outside of politcal rhetoric has been done. Meanwhile dipshits like Rodman (1)
greenf1sh
go in and out of there partying with his douchebaginess the Fatfaced Leader and calling him an OK guy. (2/end)
ICantBelieveThisUsernameWasStillAvailable
The person who downvoted this:
VzyEm3Qrl8S8IcvY
The other person who downvoted this: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0630/grant_g_rodman_sy_576.jpg
phosporus
The people that upvote this:
SlappyRedCheeks
"What? This isn't a picture of cake!" - Kim Jong Un
bobon123
Kim Jong Un is so morally reprehensible that he has multiple accounts!
ThatsMySecretCapImAlwaysHorny
The 42 downvotes are from the entirety of the Naughty Korean internet population.
sensualbanana
namelesscynic
And 44 others.
ancientnorseman
Perfect
USAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSA
Cake?
Nursecocksauce
What a fat, disgusting fuck. I bet he has a small penis.
AynCantStopThinkingAboutYew
Of course he does. He's Asian...
ashmenon
He still wouldn't have seen a lot of Asian penis.
virusgrey
I hope he dies soon from a heart disease.
fitlex
Incorrect! Kim Jong Un has the largest penis in the world, as recorded in Kim Jong Un's Definitely True Book of Facts by Kim Jong Un.
manboy
He did it with his mind
AynCantStopThinkingAboutYew
Mind Quad!
whydidyougooglethat
I miss that show even though it never started
WarpPig
*applaudes loudly*
shift24q
Thank you
BaconKitty
lost it at this comment omg
HolyMothaBendezzo
I fantasize the US or other power rushing into North Korea, kicking their asses, and rescuing those people. But it's not that easy. :(
ReverendP
You mean do exactly what we did in Iraq? That illegal war you guys are always talking about?
SerialKitten666
We took down Hitler's Germany, it's still possible, it'd just be extremely messy
FLDairyTrooper
There's really no saving the people. They're fully brainwashed and it would take a lot of effort to bring them out of it, if even possible.
takethelowroad
I imagine some won't see it as rescue
ReverendP
You mean do exactly what we did in Iraq? That illegal war you guys are always talking about?
Hashbrown123
The fact that we even allow North Korea to exist is a crime against humanity. We need to wipe out their entire chain of command.
Torenico
Very primitive, good luck with the millions of supporters ;)
SlightlyNormal
No country wants to take it on their budget to bring that country outta its mess, welcome to reality.
johndavidrage
There are so many well hidden chemical tipped artillery emplacents aimed at South Korea, it would be impossible to get them all in time :(
ihateprettymucheveryoneonimgur
Yeah, like that's going to happen. The government has its entire population on call to fight if it wants. Scared, brainwashed soldiers.
Sheppio734
Yeah, they are on call, but malnourished, untrained citizens won't fight very well.
monkeyboson
We're doing *are* doing something, and it's better than invasion. We're (China, a few others) trading with them.
WestCoastIsBestCoast
War doesn't do anything good for anyone in this situation. NK will cave in on itself if/when it loses Chinese support.
Hashbrown123
So we are supposed to just let them continue to do the horrible things they do while we wait for something that might happen too late?
WestCoastIsBestCoast
As doing something would cause worse consequences than doing nothing, yes, absolutely.
WestCoastIsBestCoast
Until that happens the status quo is the best possible scenario. "Liberation" is not worth the death toll that it would carry.
junkist
No one eants to fuck with NK, there'd way too many losses, diplomacy appears out, so it's stalemate.
ToastyMozart
Maybe an attempt to sabotage the artillery and assassinate Kim? If a family can sneak out, maybe a small CIA team could sneak in.
Alah2
The west on brings down dictatorships that are oil rich.
imadogperson
People like to say about WWII "If we knew about what was really going on, we would've interveen sooner". North Korea proves that's a lie.
Hashbrown123
Exactly.
kesselschlacht
And not to mention the Allies were aware of what was really going on.
TheBlondeGinger
Their is a lot in this world that needs to be fixed sadly its always protected in some way
SocietyOfSensation
because wiping out people (chain of command or otherwise) has always proven to stop conlflicts and save lives?
SerialKitten666
Worked pretty well when Hitler was cornered, didn't it?
SocietyOfSensation
And the day kim jong tries to invade another country he will get destroyed. But countless other innocent lives will be lost aswell.
BayazTheBenevolent
Any sentence starting with the words "We need to wipe out..." needs careful consideration before uttering. Clearly you didn't consider.
mrssugar
There are a lot of other factors to consider. Not to mention that we are not the world police and we can't continue acting like we are.
AFineDayForScience
Plot twist: OP is from France
Hengabecka
Assuming that "we" is the USA (not 'we' from where I'm sitting), I'd recommend looking at what happened last time the USA invaded Korea.
mrssugar
Exactly.
skellious
who is "we", here? This is an international community and all of us together DO have a duty to police the world against extremism.
Prind12
The only reason why we act like the world police is because the rest of the world fails to act in dire circumstances time and time again.
mrssugar
Yes, but we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
LordIggy
Which is why America lined up to fight Nazi Germany right away. :p Don't kid yourself, by and large countries act out of self-interest.
Prind12
Firstly WW2 is an entirely different conversation. Secondly the US has acted selflessly time and time again.
skellious
but the point is in WWII they didn't enter the war until more than 2 years after the war started and only once they'd been attacked at home.
ToastyMozart
about fake german atrocities just to get our help. So pardon the skepticism when it happened again. Britain cried wolf, don't pin it on us.2
ToastyMozart
Oh, yeah. We -totally- weren't put off WWII because the last time we helped, it was because of the British lying through their teeth (1/2)
albatross17
that's very short-sighted.
Octom
I think they don't do anything because they don't see a threat in north korea. I also don't think anyone wants to risk peace to free the NKs
Hashbrown123
Then we reunite the Koreas.
XtraLifeBastion
Hitler thought very much the same way about wiping out something he didn't personally agree with.
Hashbrown123
Yes, and he did it in camps like in NK. Don't act like this is just some small disagreement. These are crimes against humanity.
XtraLifeBastion
This just in, Hitlers eradication of the jews was just some small disagreement.
othernym
Good god, does anyone remember 2003? Are we ever going to stop deluding ourselves into thinking we can fix a country by invading it?
imadogperson
Saddam Hussein was a nice guy compared to Kim Jong-Un
BayazTheBenevolent
As soon as Americans start using "we" when talking about the US forces all reason is lost, I'm afraid.
othernym
"we" as in the American public. The voters, the media, & the politicians. They determine whether the US forces do something like that.
richy185
yeah you're right. bring back Saddam!
othernym
Do you actually think we improved things? Honest question. Do you think Saddam or bloody civil war & failed state is better?
TheDarkPotato
Things over there are improved though
richy185
A country without a genocidal psychopath as its leader is better. The only crime is that we didn't do it sooner.
Prind12
so WW2, the Korean war, US intervention in bosnia, and the Gulf war never happened? cause those turned out pretty well.
othernym
WWII is the only one where we put troops on the ground and dismantled a state. And Korean War? Did you even notice what the post is about?
Prind12
So? You claimed that invading a country doesn't solve anything and I clearly disproved that. Also troops were on the ground in bosnia. cont
Prind12
Not to mention the fact that the Korean war ensured a free South Korea. Desert storm also freed Kuwait.
othernym
In 2003 I was all like you, scared of being Neville Chamberlain. Then I saw what happened. Now I'm seeing people make the same mistake.
Prind12
I also saw what happened during the second gulf war. I disagree with how bush carried it out however ultimately i consider it a just war.
othernym
A "just war" does more good than harm. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan show how hard that is to actually do.
othernym
I'm starting to be convinced it's the same cycle that led us to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and (debatably) Afghanistan.
Thekingofbeans
Except every situation is different. There is no strategy that will always succeed or always fail.
Prind12
Are you talking about the continual push towards war that republican warhawks are always on?
SerialKitten666
I can't see the difference between Hitler and Kim Jung Un. Why are we more scared of NK? We care less because the pain is isolated? 1/2
SerialKitten666
The world has lost millions of dollars and lives in war before, what, we don't fight for humanity in the 21st century?
halvinandcobbes
We will look back on them 30 years from now and think, "How did we know that these terrible things were going on and chose to do nothing?"
GreatYazer
asdfghjklx
Hindsight is 20/20.
othernym
Because we "chose to do something" in Iraq.
BayazTheBenevolent
And we all know how that turned out.
Granolaclusters
We don't need to look back. It's right in front of us, and we're not taking action because it would start world war III.
Prind12
It wouldn't start world war 3. It would however start a massive conventional war that would cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
IAlwaysUpvoteFirefly
You do know China is their ally right? And Russia and China are Allies? So if we did that, we would be declaring way on China and Russia
Laitka
Russia and China allies? aahahah are you serious? sad thing is that 9 people upvoted this comment
FLDairyTrooper
Even China's been telling North Korea they need to cool it and shape up.
CharmingAndSexyGentlemanStarshipCaptain
Actually even China no longer give a damn about Korea. They have a lot of US Dollars in their coffer, why should they fight USA anyway?
whatajoke
Yeah, China's economy is far too dependent on the west for them to believe North Korea is worth it. China thinks for China.
openfbtd
A Russian here. Russia nad china are far from allies. Not enemies, yes. But not allies either.
openfbtd
*and
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openfbtd
Yeah, that was true for some time, but right now it seems China doesn't want Russia's lands that much.
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Hashbrown123
Fuck it. They either take down the monster they created or we have mutual destruction.
IAlwaysUpvoteFirefly
You and I both know it will not happen like that. China and Russia would destroy us like a little mosquito
whatajoke
Err bro, remember USA would not be alone. We British (as well as most of Europe and Nato) would be involved as well!
malaroo
...You know Russia and China are -not- buddies, right? You also know that China and America are huge business buddies... right?
LordIggy
In simplistic worldviews, all of one nation's rivals are friends. America is rivals with China and Russia. Thus C+R must be best buds. :p
Hashbrown123
Nukes vs nukes. We'd destroy each other.
IAlwaysUpvoteFirefly
It all matters on who is able to get their nukes off first. And we also wouldn't start off with nukes. They are a last resort.
schmitty21
If we did anything millions of South Koreans would die in the ensuing conflict. Seoul is well within range of hundreds of missiles.
Okurka
The US in SK and SK itself has an extremely advanced and deep defense shield, including from missiles.
Eldibs
Well, currently unassailable artillery, IIRC, but yeah, pretty much. It's basically "We can handle this, but at what cost?"
BrainBlow
Pretty sure South-Korea has the superior military technology, and could wipe out NK artillery pretty damn fast if on the offensive.
layl
That might be but this sounds like a M.A.D. scenario.
Vigilanimide
I think the main problem is China is fucking protecting NK. And you can't go against big guys like China, Russia etc.
IPutTheLaughterInManslaughter
China is more and more distancing itself from NK. They won't profit from them, so why defend them longer and risk relationships with others.
droomph
Well if it helps any my super-into-Mao grandparents really don't like North Korea
SayWhaatt
This. Exactly this...
Eldibs
I could very easily be incorrect, but my understanding is that even China is close to fed up with NK's shit.
Vigilanimide
Doesn't matter, they will always "protect" "sovereignty" of other dictatorships...countries, just so other would leave China alone as well.
shadowex3
Unfortunately NK has had over half a century to turn their entire country into a fortress designed specifically against American invasion.
ICantBelieveThisUsernameWasStillAvailable
Exactly. The entire population is brainwashed to believe Americans and S. Koreans are monsters who murder children for fun. Seriously!
shadowex3
On top of that they have a staggering amount of ordinance pointed not just at their own civilians but South Korea as well. Anything we do
shadowex3
And all of this is assuming their allies stay out of it and they don't unleash any nuclear... or worse... biological weapons.
shadowex3
would result in a bloodbath unprecedented in modern history, Seoul would be wiped off the map before we finished landing soldiers.
SerialKitten666
Lol. Modern history has had plenty of enormous bloodbaths and continues to daily. Why is the one thing we won't touch?
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SerialKitten666
Yay, capitalism >.>.
ajizzle
as much time as NK has had to prepare so has SK, the NK army pales in comparison SK the only reason that NK exists is for china (1/2)
Thekingofbeans
We already have 50K soldiers on the DMZ. Seoul would be fine, North Korea by itself is no threat.
shadowex3
Assuming the number is accurate can they shoot artillery right out of the air?
Thekingofbeans
1) The number is inaccurate, it was recently reduced to 28k. How much damage would artillery do to a city before being taken out? Second,
Thekingofbeans
2) North Korea doesn't have any artillery that can shoot over 45km.
ajizzle
to use it as a puppet state. Any American attack would be swift enough that most casualties would be from the fanatical resistance (2/2)
layl
As fast as helicopters move, they don't move as fast as a metal shell filled with explosives flung into a ballistic arc.
ajizzle
batteries that we know about would be the first things destroyed and any that revealed their positions would be toast in minuets
Thekingofbeans
You know there are missiles designed to shoot down other missiles, right? And North Korea doesn't have any ballistic nuclear weapons.
shadowex3
We don't have teleporters. In the time it took us to unload one squad off a helicopter Seoul would be a smoldering crater.
ajizzle
yea you obviously don't know what 683 billions dollars a year buys you, or have been reading too much NK propaganda
Thekingofbeans
We have missiles that are designed to shoot down other missiles. Also North Korea doesn't have any projectile nukes.
CapnDonal
The fact that Kim Jong Il was educated in Switzerland and still went back to rule the same way that his father did makes him seem more evil.
Yoshiru
It's not that he had a "good education" it's that he's a fucking hypocrite.
infamoose
he had no choice.
YeahMrWhiteYeahScience
Lol i actually went to the same school in Geneva. We didn't really talk about it there.
DaveTheKillerGoldFish
The correct term here is 'Ass clown'.
Marchdragon
Not saying he isn't, but it seems to me he is more a symbolic leader and that its the military who rule.
txs13240sx
I blame Swiss!
G00DAP0II0
He has absolute power and grew up believing in his dynasty and birthright. Even a civilized education won't help ingrained greed.
dogonskis
Kim Han Sol his niece though... seems like the chillest kid ever. Han Sol is working on a water conservation project now, google it.
oyoyoyyyyy
I am ashamed as a Swiss citizen that we even let this pricklet into our country. But no one knew who he really was...
Hautamaki
If he did otherwise it's highly likely that the military would overthrow him. In North Korea, even the dictators aren't truly free.
FightISISItIsevil
All you need is the allegiance of the top military leaders. Then you can stop the madness. North Korea is a waste of a country & regime
FightISISItIsevil
It has adopted an ineffective meaningless existence that will not thrive. It reminds me of the pathology dept where I worked. paranoia.
buttermyarse
They still still worship his father as a god so you're right, he has to follow the same regime.
fleacollerindustry
THIS. His father created the current system where the military is in power and political legitimacy requires a Kim in power. Un is a stooge
FabricatiDiemPvnc
interesting. i never thought of it this way. thanks for saying it
kvotheaintgotnothinonme
This is forgotten, for all his wealth and privilege it is likely he is as much a prisoner as any other north korean.
TheStickyWicket
I'm not sure why you got downvoted. Granted, he is still evil and a dictator, but he's not evil for the sake of being evil.
Vigilanimide
nobody is. You know, Stalin and Hitler believed they were doing the right things. The Machiavellian "the end justifies the means" logic.
kvotheaintgotnothinonme
I don't think he is even doing that, more that he is stuck as figurehead of an institution he can't change.
turnip001
Switzerland's probably one of the only countries that wouldn't have found some excuse to do away with him.
balthcat
A small part of me defied logic and hoped that perhaps he'd change things... :/
Spincyn
Yeah, this is an instance where I feel like the rest of the world should gang up on them and break this insanity down...We are humans and
Spincyn
this shouldn't be allowed.
Reginulfr
He went to high school in Switzerland, but I thought he went to college in the US under an alias.
ilikebreakfast
Many corrupt politicians from various countries go to school abroad (US, UK, etc.) and return with that advantage to better oppress.
SerialKitten666
Woah, wait, that little shit left NK and NO ONE EVEN TRIED TO KILL HIM? Come on :/
isthatsmoothjazz
Apparently he just sat around and drew pics of basketball players all day
AetherMcLoud
TIL There's a school for Supervillains in Switzerland.
itsacarpediemkindofday
He actually went to an american school too. My Canadian school there only talked about it when we had competitions with them, pretty weird
pepeksz
So you are saying that there is a school just like Sky High.... but for supervillains? I can't wait to see their mascot
forsakenlegiondude
Yes.
aurthurallan
The Swiss are just too tolerant to get rid of it.
kelestofkels
Holy shit, H.I.V.E. is real?!
dreamspeak
why wouldn't he? he was taught from the beginning to believe he was divine and everything revolves around him even now
MyLifeisaComplicatedDrinkingGame
if he believed he was divine he wouldn't have had to attend under an assumed name.
dreamspeak
unless of course he had to be hidden from the masses at that early age because he was so special. the legend fits any scenario.
CapnDonal
Because he saw what the rest of the world was like, and purposefully lets his people live in such a horrible fashion.
dreamspeak
many dictators train abroad. but even when in school, his identity was disguised so he probably felt even more "special"
koopaya
Pretty much this. Imagine thinking you're a divine secret agent before your brain fully matures in your late 20's. I feel bad for him, but 1
koopaya
not half as bad as I feel for the N.K. people subjected to his rule.
iamireland
Pretty sure he knows he's not divine.
dreamspeak
not sure - everyone around him probably tells him he is and is worthy of incessant and unwavering adulation
RobErtE87
so who the hell does he think dennis rodman is?
thekcar
He's an alien ambassador from Solaxiant 9,according to Jay
iamireland
Right but they also tell him his grandfather turned pincecones into hand-grenades and I'm thinking he's noticed that he can't.
Leonir
Just not good enough.