datbaish
645538
18058
1683
Apr 2, 2015 5:17 PM
datbaish
645538
18058
1683
SindarElla
"Look at how a single candle can both defy and define the darkness" -Anne Frank
AngehJonze
High five.
MordorTheUnforgiving
FFS guys, lets all agree to disagree and have a civil discussion. Dont just religiously (heh) downvote the ppl sticking up for their faith.
ihavealteredmyusernameagainprayidontalteritanyfurther
I have seen civil debates on the subject in forum threads, 40,000 pages of talking and no closer to a resolution.
Iguessmynameisbrucenow
What people need to learn is that, you can respect another persons opinion while disagreeing with it.
nothingfancyhere
+1 just for the (heh)
grinner
I was scrolling down, then this happened:
?1 Confronted by God indeed.
Theguytoyourright
Kinda creepy how those phrases remained.
TheGrounded
*Goes to bad comment section to upvote all the reasonable counter-arguments* (There are actually quite a few)
ConceptBubb5
a kid, and in 10,000 years my bones won't even be dust anymore. I can only live my best for now, and hope to be a good person.
sirelurksalot
VerboseDood61
The face of indoctrination!
Imuhjeen
Found a new spray. thank you :)
AncientWeapons
MrowwMroww
I was looking for this comment, haha
ThePudding
Old gods ftw
twisti
Cthulu 2016
kinema01
For Christians, this present life is the closest they will come to Hell. For unbelievers, it is the closest they will come to Heaven -Alcorn
PlutoForPresident2016
I like this a lot.
Bonsaipanda
This sums it up pretty nicely.
dickwaffles
Wait..christians believe they don't go to hell?
oopsIdroppedmypocketpasta
That seems...unreasonable and monstrous. 95% of ppl through history weren't believers. So just...fuck off, trillions of people, then?
kinema01
It's nice and convenient to think everyone goes to heaven. But it's not about what's nice, it's about what's true.
oopsIdroppedmypocketpasta
That God is a cruel and sadistic child or a harsh and uncaring dictator, trapping us in logically impossible dilemmas.
eisbaerBorealis
Unless you're Mormon, then you believe that the unbelievers get a pretty awesome afterlife, too.
PlutoForPresident2016
pretty much have been educated enough so that you're deserving of wherever it is you go to.
PlutoForPresident2016
I'm LDS; that's true. There's a brief "Time-out" period, for lack of a better term - go sit in the corner and what not. But then you'll
irongyrfalcon
Earth is a truly unfair and often horrible place. Good and Evil are left to fight it out, truly chaos. Anywhere without chaos is better.
JupiterWhistles
For those wondering, Fry is describing the problem of evil. It's a theological question that has been discussed at great length and (1/2)
JupiterWhistles
it has also been dealt with quite thoroughly as well. Links - www.peterkreeft.com/topics/evil.htm and (2/3)
JupiterWhistles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
thr33prime
There exists suffering. There is a cause of suffering. There is an end to suffering. There is a path to end suffering.
wackjack
What the fuck happened to the taskbar? IMGUR, IT'S APRIL SECOND! DON'T DO THIS TO ME!
tangybreath
Mine looks completely normal...
TheFlyingHellfish
You're talking about the upvote arrow being a tag, the downvote arrow being a clock, and the favorite heart being a downvote arrow?
Ashielf
Aye
zhukoz
I can't expand your comment, but yep a whole lot of weird shit going down here :p lol
mateysaidwot
I hesitated over upvoting everything in this thread, terrified that I'd be tagging it for review instead.
mthrndr01
SouperScott
I really wish there was a picture of it, I really want to believe this actually happened, but I just can't without a bit more proof.
notsocrazy24
"There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." --Corrie Ten Boom, who survived the concentration camp she was put into for 1
BusinessLobster
Corrie Ten Boom is just truly amazing. Glad to see someone else on imgur is familiar with her!
notsocrazy24
hiding Jews, although her sister and father did not. 2/2
Rovex
Both are profound, but are just coping mechanisms, nothing more.
tamalero
But these cataclysms were not created by god himself, but by men that used their freewill for evil. That is the only excuse I can think.
Wooooooooooooooooot
But if he were omnipotent, wouldn't he be able to preserve that freedom, all the while making sure the freedom does not result in 1/2
tamalero
no, because you would block one of the other.. men create their own hell.
Wooooooooooooooooot
suffering of others? Freewill is never the only constituent of the outcome. 2/2
LMeire
Except that isn't actually freewill, it would still be a subtle limitation that forces people to be "good" without any meaning to it.
sinbios
Maybe the world is created for those insects and we're just intended to be food. Why do we assume if a creator exists it should cater to us?
SageyWagey
Because we can write fiction books. And God loves fiction.
grantavius
A very valid point. However, since we created him, he should cater to us.
GilderoyPopDropNLockart
Hah good one
Drethak
Because the bible claims God made us in his image.. Why would he do that and not intend to cater for us?
evbrew
Maybe the insects wrote the bible? Think outside the box.
aharami
So if the world was created for those insects, why are we praising him?
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
Yeah, I was raised Catholic and had a very hard time letting go of it but the day I cut the ties for good was when I finally realized (1/2)
julesderamablam
Same! For me it was a grade 12 philosophy teacher (at a catholic school!) who made me finally realize my ignorance. Best choice I've made
booksandrubberbands
Yes yes yes! Same here! Life has been so much happier since I stopped feeling GUILTY all of the time. Still moments, but they are small.
RedStarBeograd
Yeah. PARTY FAP!
fancierpants
It pains me to hear you had that experience with the church (though not uncommon in the RCC). Christianity is about freedom 1/2
booksandrubberbands
And I'm SUPER glad that it is something that fullfills you. It's a great thing for some peeps, but I've found peace elsewhere now.
fancierpants
And there's no basis for guilt in Christian doctrine as they're already fully justified. Idk what they were teaching but it wasnt Christian
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
that if God did exist he'd be worse than any fictional monster of which the human mind could conceive. (2/2)
Mugsalot
It's funny cause I was left to my own devices and I only really became a Catholic when I looked into the responses against stuff like this
ittybittyfeets
Logic with a just the right amount of mystery.
AGoodTimeButABadRoleModel
That sounds like a challenge.
nothingfancyhere
right there with ya; was raised catholic, always kind of found some of the stories taught odd. Grew up a bit and came to my own conclusions.
qaaaaa
Honestly? I doubt this is honest. Catholic belief is that evil is in the world due to the inward seeking nature of man. Evil is in the >
qaaaaa
>world not because G-d hates us or we failed him, but because of man's selfishness. Natural things (eye bugs) that are evil were made >
qaaaaa
Through satan's perversion and serve the purpose to bring out the good (corporal works of mercy). Heaven/salvation is not gained through >
qaaaaa
Faith alone nor the proclamation of His word, but by service to our fellow man through the corporal and spiritual works of mercy.
ArguablyRelevant
@Quecho, worth a read: http://coreyjmahler.com/2012/06/14/theodicy/.
Wooooooooooooooooot
I think i was about 8 when i realized my non-believer mother would not be there in heaven with me. That either heaven would turn me into 1/3
Wooooooooooooooooot
a heartless bitch who did not care that their loved ones are burning eternally, or that i would spend eternity mourning for them. Either 2/3
Wooooooooooooooooot
way, heaven was an impossibility. Stopped believing then and there. 3/3
PwnageHobo
Oscill8s
At least with Cthulhu you know what you're getting into. Christianity is ostensibly all about peace and love.....
Dociousaliexpilisticfragicalirepus
Cutethulu!
gamer2k4
Why does the existence of horrible things prove God is horrible, but the existence of wonderful things doesn't prove he's wonderful?
eggmuffin
He's a god, isn't he? They can be both.
ookieman
One who saves three baby humans and eats one of them = monster.
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
Because he has to be voluntarily allowing the horrible things to exist. (1/2)
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
Some people being happy doesn't make up for others suffering their whole lives for reasons beyond their control.(2/2)
waitwhereamI
Because the atrocities outweigh the good by far. The wonder of a sunset is not of equal value to a seven year old with HIV or a brain tumor
waitwhereamI
And any god who would cause such a thing to happen is in no way good. Your statement is the equivalent of saying "is your husband really
waitwhereamI
THAT bad if he gives you icecream after he beats you? I mean, icecream is great. Surely that makes him great "
tiure
And if we use a different straw man, getting a flat tire is not of equal value to surviving a catastrophic car accident totally unharmed!
waitwhereamI
Straw man implies I misrepresented the argument, which I did not. The comment literally said "why does horrible things make god horrible
TheOldNewSlowFast
Living in a utopia, there would be no reason to grow and learn as a species, we'd have stagnated. With challenges we strive to improve.
Sephitard
Maybe if they just tried hard enough, they'd grow their eyes back. Weak children!
johncandy12
Good point
SimplySibyl
There's learning and growing and then there is gratuitous pain. Challenges could exist without the excess that they reach.
TheOldNewSlowFast
Neither you nor I know for certain what challenges are required to lift us to the heights that we will someday reach.
AngehJonze
Slow clap. I don't know why this is down-voted.
youaresoverywrong
You can live in a world of conflict with out horrific affliction. If god was in fact all powerful it would be well within it's ability.
TheOldNewSlowFast
Perspective. Also, f all you bastards who keep replying without an upvote ffs. haha
youaresoverywrong
don't complain when you didn't do the same.
otterotters
In a way people genuinely enjoy sufferings (obviously not insects in their eyes, etc) but challenges do make people happy.
otterotters
that doesn't really have a relation to whether there is a god, but perfection just isn't very fun, or interesting, or desirable.
ContentToRoam
Then why strive to a heaven that is "perfect"?
otterotters
I don't know. Heaven is really for the New Testament, and I think the NT praised things like self-denial and it was against riches and stuff
otterotters
When you're involuntarily starving i think philosophizing on the need for perfection like i did is not on the front of your mind.
otterotters
And one way to comfort lots of poor, suffering people is to tell them that their suffering will end and be rewarded with heaven.
minion68
not sure what you point was, but are you saying mortal life is better than an eternal after-life?
TheOldNewSlowFast
No.
minion68
ok, do you think somehow we will not stagnate in an eternal afterlife? or would it not matter if we stagnate then?
TheOldNewSlowFast
Let me ask this. Let's say there is a god, for the sake of argument. This god creates everything in one big bang. The universe expands, and
TheOldNewSlowFast
that we'd be beyond their understanding or knowledge. To them, we'd be perfect and all powerful.
TheOldNewSlowFast
provide a spark, a care package if you will, that will spawn humanity again the new post-bang universe, and we created ourselves. The bottom
TheOldNewSlowFast
or perhaps, as is theorized by many, time is a loop, and the universe will shrink back down to a point, then a new big bang. Perhaps we'll
TheOldNewSlowFast
humanity overcomes great adversity, eventually having such massive scientific progress, knowledge, and intellect, that we are capable of all
TheOldNewSlowFast
the things we attribute to god. So, we decide to develop our own universe. We are the gods, not perfect, but so far superior to those in it
TheOldNewSlowFast
line being, we don't know, and we won't for a long, long time. Claiming there is no god for certain, or that god is bad, is simply foolish.
minion68
well atheism is the denial of the claim that God (a diety with X characteristics) exists. now whereas I cannot disprove your 1/2
TheOldNewSlowFast
with a little tinkering along the way, god is a proud parent of a new life, dredging us up from a scientific muck. Humanity. Eons pass, and
IsaidWe
the true atheist position... Hell is not God blocking a door as they plead their case. God pleads on the other side while they hold it shut.
ThePowerOf42
And well also on the point.. Einstein said it .. https://quotesaga.s3.amazonaws.com/quote/QS_ffede44657bb40b5b35fa8d743af0e5d.jpg
youaresoverywrong
I love that quote.
ThePowerOf42
Me 2.. it hits the mark spot on.. (And who can really argue with Einstein)
VitaminJay
The great part about Stephen Fry is that he said all of these passionate words with that lovely cultured accent.
gamann35
And that's exactly how I read it
ISeePeopleWithUsernamesLikeThisAllTheTimeSoHeresMine
As a mobile user, the next best thing is that the up/down vote bar is looking decently in Fry's favour.
MissNomer101
That is exactly how I read it :)
Blzbab
666 points, 6 hours ago. Someone might agree with you ;D
VitaminJay
http://imgur.com/ArkpfOC I won't tell...
helloyesthisis
Well spoken, I love Fry, but what he's saying demonstrates a clear misunderstanding of the mythos.
Snarkoleptic
The details don't change the gist
helloyesthisis
That's exactly my point. He has the gist wrong.
LadyBaconTits
He did a full set of Harry Potter audiobooks. Having Stephen Fry read to me was magical. Also he is the voice of Reaver in Fable.
gamann35
He did Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy as well! Fantastic.
ASDFFDSAASDFASDF
I'm still mad I couldn't shoot that guy
jackyjack
This. Well the first bit. Don't know what fable is.
CoconutCyclone
It's a Peter Molyneux game series. The first one was pretty good if you ignored all the lies PM spit out everywhere before launch.
711wasapartimejob
I wish I could respond so eloquently when presented with the same question.
ChefBreadstick
Why... Okay is it just me or is upvote a pricetag, downvote a clock, and favorite a downvote?
mateysaidwot
"I need a pricecheck on the replies in comment 2 - yes, that's comment 2, replies 1 through 5? Thank you..."
prattleassassin
pricetagged for awareness
BermondseyRising
Well thank you. That's my accent!
SsSsSs111112232
HAHaha yeeesss!, I was hearing his voice as I read this. hahaha
sixseasonsandalongepisode
"Cultured" - Southern English
pjdonkey
"cultured" - English**
sixseasonsandalongepisode
Have you heard a scouser?
TimothyTRiG
There were, traditionally, educated and upper class regional accents, but they're dying out.
sixseasonsandalongepisode
Ok but 'English' as a bracket isn't really cultured because you've got 60% chavs
demiandub
On a related note, what the fuck happened to the like and dislike buttons?
datbaish
Im just saying, if I EVER got in an argument with the man I would NOT interrupt him. I would just want to hear him speak.
eggmuffin
It's like a velvet glove, dipped in honey, gently caressing my cochlea.
TobiasFunkeAnalrapist
I hope you don't interrupt any one you're having an argument with.
SirWinter
This
NationalistCanadianMooseWarrior
Honestly I think it would be cool to get into a big debate with someone like him.
NiceLegsDaisyDukesMakesAMAAANOUTOFYOOOUUUU
It would be a very one sided argument and most of it I would spend staring at him and sighing twitterpatedly.
DukeOfChutney608
English gentlemen dont argue, they converse
Sanktw
Subtlety is wasted on the wilfully ignorant.
NOTAlexJones
http://imgur.com/NjQJEAo
datbaish
You are absolutely right! I shouldn't have said 'argued' :)
sixfoothobbit
U wot m8?
LoopStricken
wot dis cunt gabbin on abaht m8?
obcontra
That isn't an argument, it's a contradiction!
SprekenZeeChickens
No it isn't.
TheCharacterLimitInUserNamesIsALargeNumberAndIWillAbuseThatFact
Yes it is!
Snarkoleptic
It's called mid-20th-century southern Received Pronunciation. It's a very particular accent – and in my opinion the nicest one
FlatulentFerret
Schmedes
What if people who suffer in this life were complete dickheads previously and were reincarnated by God. Hitler probably got ass cancer.
ChesterCopperpots
Gracias Aurelius
ArguablyRelevant
@FlatulentFerret, while his argument seems compelling at first, there are very strong counters: http://coreyjmahler.com/2012/06/14/theodicy/
mayhem87
I have never seen this quote before..thank you. i live my life like this every day and will never forget this
bleezy79
probably my favorite quote of all time
specific78
Right on
Irishda
Always upvote Stoicism. I hate this Stephen Fry post, but I love me some Aurelius.
BlueRicky
Why do you hate it? That's a strong word, to me anyways.
Irishda
Because it's A: a repost, and B: It's a singular interpretation of what God should be doing coming from a man who's supposedly very smart
rasmus2504
If only all people lived by that quote. Imagine a world like that..
CamDawggy
+1
ReversePsychology
A seriously amazing book, I read it every night before bed. Amazing and intelligent man.
Schabenbaron
I'm divided about the book. his reps are tiresome and the world can't live on the niveau of it's great men. I rather read with Mark Twain
Rolli13
Really disorganized, and most of the lines are obvious or not very profound, but here and there you find a true gem, like this one. noragret
mayhem87
what is obvious to you does not mean it is for others
Rolli13
Most of it really is, but well, maybe.
Idontlikemyusernamesoimchangingit
I named one of my cats after him.
tylertooo
One of my all time favorite quotes!
tommytraddles
"Rain, rain on the hills and ploughlands of Attica. Our prayers should be so simple and artless, or we should not pray at all." ~ M.Aurelius
BlueRicky
Commenting because I can't favorite, nice quote =]
oceanstarbunny77
I don't focus on religion I just try to be a good person.
LetUsReasonTogether
People get really caught up in what is good enough, or whose standard you're judging by. But the key is to love and not judge, isn't it.
Badatcomments
Same here. I'd rather take the challenge to do good in this world than take the easy way out and think only about myself.
oceanstarbunny77
and this is why I love the internet.
howisthisname
Did the upvote/downvote/favorite just change for anyone else?
CyborgBarry
Yes. @Sarah, Pls
ImNotLouisCK
I'm really hoping this is a part of April Fools.
Minimanatee
mobile master race
AsABiologistWhoIsNotFunAtParties
everything is fucky for me. The buttons were all fucked on firefox, they are more accurate on chrom but I still can't expand comment threads
Sidnee
Yes! And there are buttons beside the comments now too!?
Theatime
It's a bug. Ctrl+F5 to refresh the page and fix it.
KarlHungusssss
yeah wtf are these new icons. i hate it.
TheFourthPhalange
YES WHAT IS GOING ON IT'S APRIL 2ND
kattpappan
I thinkmsomeone fucked up.
kindsoberandfullydressed
Yeah I'm staring at it now...
hugsplease
YES CONFUSED.
LesbianWieners
AND I have to click right *next* to the + to expand conversations. WHAT IS THIS
Tylendal
Yes, just now. Baggage tags and clocks...
TheFourthPhalange
Wait, it's back to normal now 0_0
howisthisname
What the hell is happening...
TheFourthPhalange
Imgur is being infiltrated by the lizard people. @sarah tries to send a signal to imgur users that something is wrong, before she is 1/2
TheFourthPhalange
2/2 silenced. The voting buttons never changed. Did they change?
Gnoll
Yes, and I can't open comment threads anymore. The favorite button is a down arrow, the upvote is a tag, and the downvote is a... clock?
zhukoz
I can't do upvoting/downvoting/expand comments or see my own anymore, for some reason :/ I think somebody hates me Lol
diabLoDesignz
Help! Whats is that!
Kiwi31415
Yep - I also have to click below the expand button to expand comments.
zhukoz
You can click the expand button?? I have to go to my gallery profile to do anything now LOL
SpecimenSpiff
Yeah! That took me a bit to figure out. SOMETHING'S FUCKY
Gnoll
Anywhere on the comment seems to do the trick as well... figured that out on accident just now.
MeAnd2Bs
I'm also having trouble with my upvotes registering. I upvoted you and the arrow went green, but the points stayed at 1.
MeAnd2Bs
Thank you, thank you, thank you...it's been driving me crazy!
Gnoll
Same. These changes are driving me nuts. Did you also notice if you go to someone's profile you can no longer upvote from gallery comments?
MeAnd2Bs
I just checked it out! Why would they do that? Also, I upvoted you again, and it's still at 1 point. It's getting very frustrating!
FetchMy10FootPoleMinionTheresSomethingIWishToNotTouch
Not just that, I can't click the '+' and expand an individual comment thread; have to click "expand all" :(
puddlejumper
You can just click anywhere within the comment itself (except for the username and reply button, obviously) and it will expand.
FetchMy10FootPoleMinionTheresSomethingIWishToNotTouch
Cool beans! Thanks for the tip! :)
puddlejumper
No problem, but it's been like that for months, :P
TimothyTRiG
Anywhere *except* the actual plus sign. On the comment or just above the plus sign work, but not the plus sign itself.
puddlejumper
Yeah, the gigantic space, not the itty bitty tiny space. I've never used the actual plus sign to expand comments. It's a total pain.
zhukoz
Well, I'll be fucked with a pineapple Lol So you can!
Minimanatee
mobile master race
Treblaine
It's a glitch in the Imgur... it's a sign that the mods have changed something... SWITCH! APOC!
AnybodyOutThere
Yep. For awhile you could collapse a comment thread by clicking in the gray space to the left. Made a lot of other stuff go blooey. 1/2
AnybodyOutThere
"I know engineers, they love to change everything."
5700
Still swapped
sixfoothobbit
@seraaaaaaaaa
Minimanatee
mobile master race
revcleo
Imgur team are messing with everything, replies are not working well!
Giggity42
I missed it... but heard all about it
cocoakoumori
Sauce!! The video is far more enjoyable if only for Gay Byrne's face (the interviewer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo
secularink
2)
PibbleZoomies
Thank you for the sauce.
AtheistAnarchist
Really? His name is 'Gay'??? lol
weaslor
Technically he was christened Gabriel, but yeah, "gay" hasnt always been derogatory.
Peacetoad
Is that pronounced Gay Burn?
weaslor
Pretty much, yeah.
secularink
I saw your comment and went: "Dude you can't go around calling people Gay.... Oh... It's his name.... oh... yeah.. ok... I'll get my goat."
WiPo
Thank you!
ScottPilgrimVSNoOneInParticular
Gay Byrne: A name so unfortunate Johnny Cash should have written a song about it.
spasticanomaly
I tell ya, life ain't easy for a boy named Gay...
cocoakoumori
We affectionately nickname him Gaybo.
Nemain
We all love Gaybo
imapencil
I love that old guys reaction when he's talking about the insects, "I'm so tired of this bullshit"
cocoakoumori
*cannot fully proccess logic* Interviewer.exe has crashed
Nemain
Gay Byrne, one of Ireland's nost famous TV presenters. Lovely man, old fashioned - from an era where what's being said was basically illegal
LandDolphin
Brits are so polite. I love it!
Bumpaddler
Classic mistake from a Mexican, it's ok hermano.
Horus175
Careful... Gay Byrne is Irish. Best not get those confused.
violetpolkadots
cocoakoumori
To add, Gay Byrne is really sound. He doesn't interrupt Stephen once and they have a laugh after this on the show.
nollafyzzil
I honestly once saw Gay Byrne walking down Grafton St in slippers with 2 bemused handlers and a camera man following, rolling their eyes.
DrowningLessons
I really want to find the whole thing and not just the clip.
cocoakoumori
Yeah, I remember watching it on TV but I'm not sure if it's online... actually... *puts on investigating hat* I will return to this place.
cocoakoumori
(2/3) So the channel have some episodes online though I don't know if you can watch them outside of Ireland so proxies!
joepcash
Aha, finally! After years of waiting, Ireland is the region you must be in to watch something online! AHA AHAHAHAHAHA
VinnieJonesDiary
And in fairness to him he left in this scene where he gets completely schooled & made to look foolish, lesser men would have just cut it.
RonSwansonIsMyHomeboy
As a Christian, I am truly happy to see people being honest about their opinions of God instead of bullshitting their way around questions.
rajaat
And yeah, it is nice. Though an honest answer can expect honesty in return.
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
As a Christian I too am glad people are being honest. It is good to question things. I think he's wrong/misguided but honesty is good.
RonSwansonIsMyHomeboy
Exactly. I can have conversations with people like him. It's the hate-filled people (on both sides) who suck.
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
Gnoll
Something something free will something something. Yeah there's no good argument for that :)
hassebass
The garden of Eden teaches people that you should have blind faith and not seek knowledge outside the bible/church. Eden was a prison
SamuelJacksonsCigarette
Although God knew they would taste the fruit, so really what's the difference? Unless God isn't all knowing...
Flyndaran
If you believe in a literal Adam and Eve then you are anti-science and anti-sanity.
SenorChangElTigreChino
"Don't do the thing" "we did the thing." "Guys..."
dinosaurda
Though the human race couldn't exist without them eating the apple.
ltpoultry
So... Eve ate an apple so now kids deserve to die of bone cancer?
Gnoll
It's sad that I grew up seriously not seeing a problem with that line of reasoning being the correct answer :(
LarvaLamp
If all the pain in the world is punishment for eating one apple, God needs to calm the eff down.
JettKaiju
If placed in a situation where one can do nothing wrong, and nothing can go bad, one has no will. Free will requires choice, AKA the apple.
dposton70
The child with bone cancer didn't get to exercise free will.
JettKaiju
I hate that those things happen, but it gives the rest of us the chance to help. It pushes the human race by giving something to fight for.
LarvaLamp
I know. My point is that it was a bit of an overreaction.
[deleted]
[deleted]
rajaat
That's the point in a way. The apple was the knowledge of good and evil. Basically the knowledge of choice. They could never be the same.
Gnoll
they couldn't have reasonably known that it was actually wrong to do so. 2/2
Gnoll
They had free will, they actually didn't know what sin was, which makes the story even more fucked up, because before they ate the apple 1/
JettKaiju
No, I mean to say they had free will because there /was/ a choice and they made it.
puffaliaz
Being knowledgeable about the options matters. In the garden, they were immortal and had no knowledge of good and evil. They were 1/
puffaliaz
literally incapable of weighing the value of the word of god over that of the snake or judging the consequences - that capability only 2/
puffaliaz
his desire to have evil in the world but make the humans the one to blame (or it may also be a display of his incompetence) 5/
puffaliaz
as a way to have free will, as they are not an evil or a punishment in response to a non-good/evil action. the problem of evil remains 8/
puffaliaz
and not having the ability to weigh the moral values attached to their actions means that the garden was simply a way for god to excuse 4/
puffaliaz
existed in them AFTER eating the fruit/apple. Placing the temptation in the middle of the garden, not giving them a time limit to choose, 3/
puffaliaz
STORY ASIDE, If evil exists as a way to make free will plausible or meaningful; sure, there is some reasoning there I may accept. BUT 6/
puffaliaz
largely untouched by that approach. 9/9
puffaliaz
that DOES NOT excuse natural disasters, untargeted evils, punishment/hardships on infant or younger, etc. They cannot be justified simply 7/
MagicSeaker
Praise the Sun
EarlGreyMakeItSo
That's one thing i can praise \~|-+-|~/
ProjectSunrise
fvckyes
Hallelujah! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo
Imuhjeen
\[T]/
FrozenTime
It's all about that moon tho
xIlegionIx
\[T]/
rand0mNPC
\|T|/
cykes
Um, are you praising or mooning the sun?
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
As a fellow Christian, I agree with you but I've always felt like the particular statements made by Fry were always so judgmental and (1)
Garbledinawastaken
It's the only point on which I have to pull him up. I think he's letting unresolved personal issues leak into his feelings about god/God.
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
absolute, almost sounding like he doesn't want there to be a back and forth from the other side. No doubt he brings up some good points (2)
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
but I feel like he's expecting his arguments to be the trump card for religion based arguments, not caring whether or not he sounds insultin
Pygmyshrew
Good. He should sound insulting. Religion has never caused anything but sadness and genocide. You don't get a pass just because you /1
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
Well people went about religion the wrong way. Christianity is supposed to encourage the acceptance of everyone of every belief. That's (1)
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
Also, the fact that the Church has done the most charity work than anything else in the world kinda refutes what you just said.
Pygmyshrew
believe in a wizard in the sky. Grow up.
fancierpants
Religion has caused so much good in the world as well.
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
without compromising their harmless ideals. To reject another for any reason instead of accepting them isn't going to make things better.
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
your rude comment, I try to use the words I believe were given to us by this 'wizard in the sky' to create a better world for everyone (3)
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
Btw nice job downvoting all my comments instead of discussing with me about it. Very mature and respectable.
Pygmyshrew
I haven't downvoted anything. I'd tell you if I did, because I think what you say is a load of bullcrap. You do know that the catholic /1
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
what I try to encourage to everyone I meet. But are you really going to blame me for what people hundreds of years ago did? And unlike (2)
BhawbTheMagnificent
He could also find the counter-argument to his statements in a 5 minute Google search because they've existed for centuries.
eetsumkaus
They've existed as long as the Bible itself...that's what the Wisdom literature is for. And I know this as an Atheist...
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
answer all of them confidently and with certainty.
toohungoverforusernames
yes. i thought that certainty and faith were opposing ideals.
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
I meant I can answer questions about my faith with certainty. Of course I'm not certain a God exists but it sounds like the most likely (1)
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
option for me.
WhySoSirius
What are the answers to his questions? Genuinely curious
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
Ask away. He asked a lot of different questions in a lot of places.
Flyndaran
Magic. Or nuh uh.
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
Yeah. I'm certain he tried to find the answers for them, but I heard a lot of his arguments. I'm 18 and educated in my faith. I could (1)
Rovex
'Educated in your faith', Hmm, accepting the fatuous excuses the churches have had 2000 years to think up.
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
the Church
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
the Church's teachings now maybe you'd find some dignified answers to those issues. (ignore my last comment, misclick)
GuyWhoThinksHesFunny
I'm not. I know very well the gratuitous issues the church were involved with and we are trying to resolve them. Maybe if you reviewed (1)
TornadoKiller
As a muslim I agree! and I hate the "what if you're wrong question" because there is no substance.
Xynatox
Mhm, these aren't questions that have any good answers as far as I've seen. I've always enjoyed tough questions that make you think.
lvl1atlife
As an athiest, I respect the fact that you didn't get whiney about someone not accepting your God. People of religion should learn from you.
TheScruffyJanitor
Mothafuckin bitchass atheists dont think they need goddamn God!
TheScruffyJanitor
Totally kidding. I understand if God isn't your thing.
haroldsax
I just want to point out, most of the religious people I know are exactly like that. They don't care what you believe in or don't believe in
Coreadrin
Indeed.
DetectivePikachu2
As a religious person, I respect the fact you don't belittle is for believing in God
sirplayerone
I actually spent the last hour having a VERY similar conversation, with a YouTube commenter, no less.
Ullur
To quote JelloApocalypse regarding youtube comments, "remember: D.O.N.T! Which stands for D.Oooooooooooooooooo.Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.T. comment."
sirplayerone
This is the only time I din't want to drop kick the commenter in the head.
RonSwansonIsMyHomeboy
Thank you. I'm trying daily to LOVE other people instead of "religioning" them. (I think I made a new word) all the best to you, friend!
AtemShane
As an atheist/human being. Thank you. I live in the "Bible Belt" of the US and it's refreshing to see an accepting individual like yourself
Kabba
I like this. No general idea is going to prevail. We must rather promote tolerance and love for and through all groups.
thatssoatheist
Honestly, I have so much respect for you. The fact that you can accept one another's opinions about religion and still be positive, well.
thatssoatheist
I'm an agnostic and I like to keep quiet about that. I find it silly when people argue.
RonSwansonIsMyHomeboy
Thank you. I do not take your compliment lightly, and I sincerely appreciate it. I wish all the best, long life, and peace for you!!
OhPieceOfCandy
The world needs more of this. I was raised christian. (keyword: Raised). And I was taught to love first and above all else, and to not (1/2)
OhPieceOfCandy
Force our beliefs on others.
RonSwansonIsMyHomeboy
:) Jesus didn't say, "Love your neighbor... but only if they agree with you. Otherwise, fuck 'em." Nope, he said, "Love your neighbor."
[deleted]
[deleted]
Skruvboll
As I see it if there is a god they'll be nothing like humanity could ever imagine or ever comprehend.
ittybittyfeets
We'd never understand all the intricacies of an omnipotent being existing outside of existence. With that in mind... (1/2)
ittybittyfeets
the opinions of an actor on the characteristics of "God" seem quite trite. (2/2)
Rovex
Or any human, making man made religion and the churches themselves no less trite.
aidanjt
Actually, we have lots of experience with ego-centric genocidal assholes down here.
grantavius
Even if that were so, he knows our limits and so Stephen Fry's arguments are still valid.
Skruvboll
In my mind the only possible god that could exist would be one who simply never considered humans and we've evolved trough coincidence.
ittybittyfeets
An all-knowing, all powerful being couldn't not consider every aspect of its creation. If it didn't, then it wouldn't be God..just a creator
kellogleo
Even if such being did know our limit, why would it be forced to adhere to it?
GordonDunkley
Atheism is not "the belief that if there is a god he is a monster. " As much as you all love this guy, he was blowing it out his ass here.
Teasers
The question was asking theoretically if he were to meet god at the pearly gates what he would say.
Xynatox
Yeah, that point was wack. It's "A"theism, as in anti-theism, as in, the belief that there is NO god(s).
eggmuffin
True. It's in the word. It's simply the absence of theism. No more, no less.
TheDauphin
A lot of people who talk like him once believed in God, but something tragic happened & they feel betrayed, he sounds scorned
zhukoz
You notice he said "if we make the assumption"
IWasInsufferableIn2017
Dude, he's not actually defending atheism, he's just giving an honest response to the hypothetical question he was asked.
PwnageHobo
His last sentence gives a definition of atheism. GordonDunkley is pointing out that the definition is inaccurate.
IWasInsufferableIn2017
Oh right, fine. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm not an atheist because I'd be uncomfortable with God around, that would be fallacious.
IWasInsufferableIn2017
Stupid ambiguous syntax. To clarify: I'm an atheist, but not for the reason that I'd be less comfortable if God existed.
ukalliq
I don't think he was giving a definition of atheism so much as describing a line of reasoning that could lead someone to be an atheist.
PwnageHobo
That may have been his intent, but it's not what he said.
Matdredalia
Actually, that's exactly what most of my athirst friends believe and why they turned to atheism. I'm sure plenty of atheists (1/2)
IScratchUntilIHaveNoSkinLeft
Not what he said. Re read it, and watch the video if it's still not clear to you.
GilderoyPopDropNLockart
This probably falls under Anti-Theism
gb74
An an Agnostic, to me this fits in my world view. I don't know but If there is a God he's nothing like Christianity tries to make him seem
Sakkura
The evil in the world disproves the claimed all-powerful benevolent god. Doesn't disprove capricious or evil god(s).
PwnageHobo
True. He's saying I don't think there is a god. But if there is, he/she/it wouldn't be worthy of our devotion.
RelevantIAm
Free will is free will
TheThingNoNotThatOne
All-powerful and benevolent doesn't mean he won't put trials in front of you. Tough love doesn't always look pretty.
Sakkura
Some bad stuff isn't "trials", but just bad.
SanAnStrangler
If you honestly think he is 'blowing it out his ass,' you are lying to yourself about something.
UpvoteFairyCakes
Technically true, but I think the point he was trying to make was that sometimes the reasoning behind atheism is more than just [1/2]
UpvoteFairyCakes
'I don't think so'. Sometimes it's 'I don't want to think so'. That's how I took it, anyway.
PwnageHobo
I think it was more "I don't think so. But even if it is so, I would want no part of it."
nothingfancyhere
This
TheJonSnowShow
I think you shouldn't question R'hllor
PwnageHobo
I thought you worshipped The Old Gods
TheThingNoNotThatOne
But "I don't want to think so" is demeaning to atheists - I don't want to believe some could organize a genocide, but I'm not a 1/2
TheThingNoNotThatOne
holocaust denier. Atheists aren't just sticking their head in the sand.
Timexican
"NO" is atheism. "if so..." is agnosticism
AggravatedFerret
I would post my counter argument, but i'm afraid it would be beaten down violently by everyone's big Stephen Fry boners
eggmuffin
"The gods give us challenges to overcome" or some such predictable, childish nonsense?
TrapsAreIllegal
His view of Christianity isn't correct based on what I was taught
JakefromAllstate
There's a lot of Christians who don't even understand the basics of Christianity.
Patches3000
There will be no defense of such a cult while I still have a down-vote button.
Patches3000
Down vote me if you must, I stand by my statement.
fuckyouthen
I usually steer away from internet arguments on theology. We won't change each other's mind. Let's just leave it at that.
SweetStache
Lol I'm with you on this one. He's an intolerant asshole
carnificus
Fry is also afforded more than 140 characters. Suffice to say that hes only addressing one view from an infinitely complex set of traditions
Iguessmynameisbrucenow
I actually had a great Debate/discussion, with an Liberal atheist, and a very conservative devout catholic, (both educated and logical),1/2
Iguessmynameisbrucenow
on Abortion and ethics, and both sides respected and listened to each others argument. after an hour both sides respected each others 2/3
Iguessmynameisbrucenow
opinions but kept there own. Then we went about our day like normal, it was magical!
GotToLoveHandSanitiser
Don't let fear of rejection silence you. You are entitled to your opinion. I see from Fry's side, but i'd love to understand your view also.
gimmethedownvotes
One of the other replies has an article linked.
CanonOrNikon
I guess the counter argument is that the bad things in the world are our fault.
LetUsReasonTogether
I would also add that the bad things that happen aren't always the end to the story. There can be healing, redemption, good overcoming evil.
nothingfancyhere
Sometimes bad shit just happens; there doesn't have to be a reason.
CanonOrNikon
I agree. It's just the opposing arguement
Panzurkin
that, and imgur's innate hatred of religion
ElJawa16
I came into the comments to see if anybody had a good counter argument. Even though I strongly agree with this post.
deepfriedewok
If there's an afterlife, this world is a test. So its not meant to be perfect. It's meant to test..and each has their own level of test
MordorTheUnforgiving
But what kind of an asshole test children by blinding them with larvae?
[deleted]
[deleted]
Otacon86
So he's not all powerful, or just doesn't care. Then he's not all loving. Just making the counter-argument
Sammiithm
Why must we be tested? That would mean your god sees us as unworthy of his kingdom without proving ourselves, what kind of God is that? 1/2
ObsidianSnow
Well he created the angels and gave them unconditional love and access to everything...then Lucifer turned out to be a giant douche.
ObsidianSnow
a few bad seeds ruin it for everyone
Sammiithm
2/2 Should god not want to share his kingdom with all of his creations in joy and peace?
CoolGus
Why shouldn't we be tested? After all jesus, his own son, was crucified and killed, that was a test. And Jesus willingly accepted the test
causality
The problem of evil is a tired issue, especially when there are much more interesting theological concepts to discuss.
secretingredients
But those concepts are moot if the nature of the world itself refutes the existence of of the christian god in the bible as Fry points out.
BhawbTheMagnificent
What Fry is saying is not new, the short version of the counter-argument is that these imperfections are required for meaningful life.
causality
Yes, but they're not going to respond to that in any way besides "Nuh-uh!"
causality
For instance, does god's omniscience mean he's an omnipotent tape player, doomed to play out the actions he always knew he would take?
causality
With complete knowledge of his own future actions, god has no free will, or any decision-making ability at all. He's a rather sad creature.
KakiBlack
Same heree
Flyndaran
Belittle rational thought all you want. You merely make yourself look no better than other zealots.
ayoungerdumberronswanson
The Earth was a gift to man from God. Man allowed this evil to invade. God is there to provide hope outside of the desolation.
causality
Which is exactly what god knew would happen.
DeanWinchestersPie
That's the very short version.
ayoungerdumberronswanson
I only had 140 characters. :)
ayoungerdumberronswanson
All the negative responses to this are based on the idea that this life is all there is. I understand, guy. I can't respond to everyone 1/2
ayoungerdumberronswanson
but I love you all. I hope you find all the things you want. I won't judge you, even if you judge me. PM me if you'd like to talk.
brrruuh
Yes, because man was like "cancer please come" what b.s.
derpbread
be made. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10971-cheap-safe-drug-kills-most-cancers.html#.VR4GdfmUeSo also worth reading the update (2)
derpbread
and the comments on the update. there is a lot of speculation that research hasn't been funded because money cannot be made from it.
JacobSighs
"Don't let fear of rejection silence you" they said
derpbread
the idea is that god allowed it to exist, but also gave humans a way to fix it. meanwhile human greed slows down progress where it could (1)
BetterLuckyThanGood
Except that all men are flawed and sinful creatures, according to Christianity. So God must have known that this would happen.
ArguablyRelevant
One possible argument as to why that both IS the case and does NOT void omnibenevolence: http://coreyjmahler.com/2012/06/14/theodicy/.
CoolGus
It wasn't meant to happen though, we were given the ability of choice and we as humans have screwed up along the way.
BetterLuckyThanGood
Nothing was 'meant' to happen. Pre-destination is a nonsense concept. And if God created everything, he created the possibility for cancer
randomfolkart
Our greatest feature is our FREE AGENCY. When God created the earth it was perfect. Man
randomfolkart
brought sin into the world, it's our fault but he gave us a way out, an unjust hateful God would have abandoned us in our sin.
Kabba
What was the sin? Being curious? Disobedient? Why did he allow Satan in the garden? Could he not have known that would be the result?
MoonGirlCat
He gave us free will. Free will is hardly free will without a bad option. It was one bad tree out of all the others we were given. (1/?)
MoonGirlCat
encourage you to look into it. A simple Google search would answer it. I found this to be a nice answer. (5/?)
MoonGirlCat
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2012/07/why-does-god-allow-tragedy-and-suffering/ I'm not going to make you click it or anything. (6/?)
MoonGirlCat
I realize my answer was aimed more at the picture. Here's for yours.https://bible.org/seriespage/4-fall-man-genesis-31-24
MoonGirlCat
but I think it would answer most or at least some of your questions. (7/7)
MoonGirlCat
on imgur. One of the most common questions is "If God is good, why do bad things happen?" It's been answered every time and I'd (4/?)
MoonGirlCat
follow him. He wants us to willingly be His friend and follower. He's not going to manipulate us. It's hard to explain everything (3/?)
MoonGirlCat
What people often miss is that God wants to have a relationship (not romantic, cmon now) with us. He doesn't want mindless drones to (2/?)
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
What did we do that got innocent children blinding eye worms? Why does that sort of evil disproportionately fall on the poor in poor areas?
derpbread
last question is kinda obvious isn't it? lack of healthy lifestyle/ prevention and healthcare due to lack of money due to inequality (1)
derpbread
inequality due to human greed. so the eyeworms exist, but wouldn't be much of a problem for poor people if others helped them out (2)
derpbread
so then the question would be 'knowing we would suck at it, why did god leave humans in charge'...(4)
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
And actively make it worse? It's harder to know what's going on when you don't speak the same language or live in the same areas.
derpbread
so in a nutshell its not mans fault that eye worms exist, but in a sense our fault for being greedy and selfish and not helping the poor (3)
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
So god's plan for us includes chillin while expecting every person to be more than human in order to prevent innocents from suffering?
derpbread
Or maybe 'gods plan includes guiding us to become 'more than human' in order to go out of our way to prevent innocents from suffering'
Kabba
Fairly put. My problem with this is if adam and eve made the mistake, how can you punish generations later? Is Satan too strong for God?
ArguablyRelevant
Worth a read, @Kabba: http://coreyjmahler.com/2012/06/14/theodicy/.
Kabba
Thank you, a good read indeed :)
ayoungerdumberronswanson
It's all about free will, friend. Evil had to be allowed for the relationship to mean anything. It's not a punishment at all.
Kabba
Ok, but then I would feel that anybody can only be negatively impacted by personal decisions. Why are there children born with illness?
Kabba
Indeed, it always seemed to me like satan and evil was as much a part of god and his plan as love.
ayoungerdumberronswanson
I don't necessarily think it was part of the plan. God is complicated. he made an allowance to make our connection real. I've struggled 1/2
ayoungerdumberronswanson
with this for a long time. It's beyond my comprehension, and that's where a bit of faith has to take over. 2/2
ourmrswashburne
You create two beings, completely innocent and ignorant of consequence, withhold the very thing that would allow them to understand (1)
ourmrswashburne
the repercussions of their actions, telling them it is forbidden. And then punish them disproportionately when, in their naivete, they (2)
fancierpants
How did you determine the punishment is disproportionate?
ourmrswashburne
Disobeying a command. vs Punishing them and all of their descendents with an eternity of torture unless they follow the rules exactly. Yup.
ourmrswashburne
do the thing you told them not to do? It seems very much like deliberately setting them up for failure. (3/3)
Kabba
If satan was in the garden and God sees all, he must have knowingly let him enter.
QuotesGoHere
I'd like to read it, if you could mail it to me that'd be awesome.
gimmethedownvotes
There are plenty of arguments on the opposite side of the coin, but none of those who are in Fry's corner would hear any of them out.
a7h5e9
Consideration and open-mindedness is not reserved for only certain beliefs. Don't stereotype. 2/2
a7h5e9
As a religious woman, your comment is biased and a bit ignorant. Everyone is inclined to their opinion, as that's what makes it theirs. 1/2
idislikecomingupwithuniqueusernames
Deliberately antagonizing opponents is not a great way to start a discussion based on objective, reasoned arguments.
SanAnStrangler
Thiiiiissssss.
AggravatedFerret
This guy gets it
xkr73
Feel free to message me for a reasonable debate
BruceJennersBoobies
I'm in fray's corner and I'd love to hear any counter argument someone would have
gimmethedownvotes
One of the other replies has an article linked.
nobodyinparticular
Not a great article, though
EulaliaSaxons
Not true, I would
gimmethedownvotes
One of the other replies has an article linked.
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
I perfectly understand why people believe in god (and, no, I don't think it's because they're stupid), I just don't.
CyborgBarry
I consider myself to be an Atheist. That having been said, I am capable of having an intelligent discussion about religion and hearing 1/?
CyborgBarry
arguments both for and against without losing my shit. I think at the end of the day, that is true tolerance. You can hear the opposing 2/?
CyborgBarry
side's argument and intelligently debate back and forth with no ill feelings because that the civilized thing to do. The people who 3/
CyborgBarry
can't do that are usually on polar ends of each spectrum and, unfortunately, usually garner negative attention for their respective group 4/
slapstickslackers
I'm in Fry's corner and I would like to hear aggravatedferrets argument. U seem like a cunt though
CanonOrNikon
Calling someone a cunt makes you sound like someone I wouldn't waste my 140 characters on.
Mergatroid
To be fair, he does seem like a cunt!
YourProphetMuhammad
Why is this down voted but the guy calling people cunts gets praise. This shows more about the people here than anything else.
CanonOrNikon
Hey, thanks man.
sildraug
I'd be curious to hear them, personally. I don't expect they'll make me change my own outlook, but I find discussion of this fascinating.
ArguablyRelevant
Worth a read if you're actually curious about the issue: http://coreyjmahler.com/2012/06/14/theodicy/.
sildraug
I shall read this soon as well, but must head off to the office.
sildraug
Interestingly put, but by the constraints described, God is no longer omnipotent. Free will and omnipotence still seem mutually exclusive.
gimmethedownvotes
As this site limits to 140 characters per post, I'll go with this: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-problem-of-evil
goldfishyo
"But the problem is that objective values do exist, and deep down we all know it." No they don't. Morality is relative not objective.
Oddmonster
Ahh yes the good old "God works in mysterious ways" argument. No matter what happens, God did it, so it has to be good. *sigh*
gimmethedownvotes
Methinks you did not read the full article...
secretingredients
Those all boil down to "god works in mysterious ways beyond our understanding". Hardly an opposing argument...
sildraug
I'll have a read. But by all means, I'd be open to direct messaging, too.
gimmethedownvotes
Feel free to direct message me after reading. I am not nearly as eloquent or learned as the author of the article nor Fry for that matter.
gimmethedownvotes
(cont.) might be, I'd be willing to give it a chance.
gimmethedownvotes
Most discussions stemming on this topic in my experience have been unfruitful(from what I have seen at least) but in the hope that some of
gimmethedownvotes
So I may not be able to adequately add to the author's thoughts, but I do know why I believe what I believe and live according to it.
mikeatike
Because we deserve it, right? Little children are born with sin and deserve to die of cancer.
ChloePrice
It's true. The guy's intelligent and reasonable but he could preach Ebola is the best thing to ever happen and people would defend that too.
boognish115
I don't know who he is, but the words make sense. It's not him personally that I can agree with.
Snarkoleptic
If you think that then you might be missing the reason why people like him in the first place.
ChloePrice
You're either selective about the sheep like admiration he has received over time or felt targeted and offended yourself, sorry.
Snarkoleptic
Most people who admire him agreed with him before they did. It must be such a mindfuck to be a conservative American in Germany btw
ChloePrice
+ I'm not saying everyone who agrees with him are like that. I agree with him probably 9/10 myself. It's just, the sheeplike side exist too.
ChloePrice
I'm not American nor would I call myself conservative.
BetterLuckyThanGood
Super sweet ad hominem attack buddy.
ChloePrice
I have no problem with Stephen Fry as a person nor did I ever attack him or this... People like to act cultivated, but learn the terms, man
ChloePrice
Actually, I did once attack him over something. But you know, generally I have no reason to attack him nor do I feel hostile towards him.
BetterLuckyThanGood
You said that he could claim that Ebola is great and people would go along with it. This is pretty clearly an attempt to discredit him 1/2
BetterLuckyThanGood
2/2 on a personal level without actually having to prove why his argument is demonstrably false.
ChloePrice
Actually it's just me saying I dislike blind Mobmentality. I even said I like him and that he's great. So no, stop interpreting shit.
ILikeToCallItLostWages
I want to know. PM me!
rjmarshall137
Don't trust them! It's a trap!
tflorio19500
Don't bother. Belief is a personal right and we as a people aren't saddled with the responsibility of changing the mindset 1/2
tflorio19500
if anyone else. I, for one, would prefer to be left alone to my beliefs and give everyone else around me that same right.
LetsTalkGameDesign
How about you just do it and stop pre-emptively judging people?
imgurfacepalm
You don't know how to internet.
pedrobrv
How about this isn't prejudice since this stupid point of view was reposted dozens of times and the result of arguing is always the same?
drfelipe
coward!
lovemesomepoptarts
I know, right? He will be given preferential treatment because he is famous, and most people on this site want to believe him anyway
Meridoch
thats what happened to me...
leap1st
The problem with talk of suffering is it is off puttable as random chance. To indict the Christian god, refer to his actions in his own book
bolbis
In other words you don't have a counter argument.
AggravatedFerret
check all the replies please
ArguablyRelevant
For the curious, a solution to the "problem of evil" (i.e., a theodician argument): http://coreyjmahler.com/2012/06/14/theodicy/.
The605
PM me your argument please.
AggravatedFerret
ive PM'd like 10 people already, to tired
The605
Its all good, I double majored in pastoral/pastoral youth, I was more curious than anything.
MancrushonThor
He fails to consider if there is value in suffering. Also that God's values are not ours and this mortal phase is only a portion of His plan
orangewater
I'll be putting something together with my views!
SageyWagey
Just because we have our Stephen Fry boner's, doesn't mean we don't want to wip em out for you. Let us hear it.
RedVagOfCourage
I mean, death by a Stephen Fry boner isn't the WORST way to die.
whateversomethingdifferentiguessfkit
how glad are you that expanding comments is borked?
AggravatedFerret
somewhat
PineyAl
Short n sweet: "Evil" is necessary to perpetuate the existence/idea of hope within the human condition.
Antennaehead
Easy to say when you're not the one with parasites in your eyes.
PineyAl
But I could ride the fence and argue both sides efficiently all day. I'm just happy to be alive and able to ponder.
disgr4ce
That's a pretty fucking evil solution to the problem. It's amazing the hoops people will jump through to defend this distant nonentity
PineyAl
It's not a solution by any stretch of the imagination. Humility would insist that we don't yet have the capacity to solve everything.
PineyAl
Again, "short and sweet." There is far more involved than a blatant sentiment or claim. Think of 'good' and 'evil' as order and chaos.
PineyAl
Roughly speaking, it's how the universe, in my mind, appears to function. Natural chaos begets order. It's a beautiful paradox.
FinGermi
Well now I want to hear it lol
AggravatedFerret
check all the replies
FinGermi
Imgur is being fun right now and not letting me expand any threads :) but im off work now and heading home! yay!
WizKashifa
*reads title* *ignores content and scrolls, scrolls, then scrolls more* The phrase is "case IN point."
TheRicM
It almost made me throw up
zenthulu
You're in a safe place, you can admit that your tongue still tastes like vomit. It's OK.
TheRicM
gerrygeneric
I simply counted it as another example of English being as messed up and weird as the rest of "god's creation".
jmellars
Came down here looking for this.
theseamonkeyhasmymoney
Same
diabolicaljazz
Yup. And this isn't really the correct context for OP to use the phrase.
MacRockatansky
I think I know which type OP is... (2)
TheDarkLordOfTrees
"Look at me I'm better because I have an opinion that is better" -OP
MacRockatansky
Yup. Two types of people are obnoxiously vocal about atheism: very smart people, and people who want people to think they are very smart (1)
diabolicaljazz
Yup. I don't actually have anything to add here, but I thought we were on a roll with the "yups."
CookiePie
Yup.
ahotpotato
+1 for being a team player.
SaberShots
Yes, but the point is mute! A co-worker told me, "You can't say it! It's MUTE!"
pryspry
I'm guessing you're saying it should be moot? From my understanding, in context, they are synonymous
NotaClipaMagazine
Not sure who downvoted you. It is moot not mute. http://grammarist.com/usage/moot-mute/
sealfury
It's like a cow's opinion, though. You know, moo.
Mathemajician
Don't judge a book by its title.
plutus34
OP is such a premadonna
OldIronsides
Next time save time and just hit end
Legendariel
Thank you.
App1eJu1ce
Nearly 300 people, and counting, did the same thing.
lethaldeathmittens
I couldn't even read the post because of that.
mauxrobles
Yup.
bigjoemonger
As in the case was made in a single point
rocketpanda
Game, set, in match religious people
HubCapDiamondStarHalo
more like point, game, match, set.
mudgetheotter
Point set in match
ParsleySage
*Scrolls back up* ...Goddamnit!
PenisOfDeath
Had to do the same after reading his comment
CellsReinvent
Thank you!
UiNeilSandage
No. Self righteous whitey makes a CASE of going to 144K heaven. Those who doubt genocidal their beliefs go to hell. Fry POINT life & before.
FlesHBoX
Marsmallowmancer
Well...he makes a case and he has a point. So...I guess he's not WRONG...
goodguyC
I think OP was thinking more "Check and mate".....Case in point doesn't work in this context.
idonotthinkitownswhatyouthinkitowns
But for all intensive purposes it's the same thing right?
fakeassgrownup
For all intensive porpoises.
Lisb3th
Ohhhh you *twitch*
Dusseldwarf
Supposably.
SalutemeinnombreestJosh
End scene.
ThatRussian
OHMYGOD YOU ALL HURT MY BRAIN.... INTENTIONALLY
Collaborativelmgur
http://imgur.com/ot7aFv2
whyWontKeiraKnightleyReturnMyPhoneCalls
.... listen here you little shit
idonotthinkitownswhatyouthinkitowns
Fun fact: Ellipses have three periods. How do you like me meow?
whyWontKeiraKnightleyReturnMyPhoneCalls
you ............ you stopped to count...........?
PuppiesoverKittensAnyday
four looks way different than 3.
flight815down
Well, I could care less
Collaborativelmgur
http://imgur.com/8b6G3Bz
meltymcface
This pains me!
GapingHeadwound
France is bacon
idonotthinkitownswhatyouthinkitowns
*Sir France is Bacon!
TimothyTRiG
I'm twitching, but upvoting. (Now I need to find a way to use "lame man" (layman) and "juror's prudence".)
fashionnugget
And the rural juror?
idonotthinkitownswhatyouthinkitowns
I'll help but please excuse me while I kiss this guy.
nickg131
I'm revved up like a douche, another runner and the knight
TimothyTRiG
Mondegreens are a special kind of eggcorn.
idonotthinkitownswhatyouthinkitowns
I don't understand. I placed the acorns on the green just like you asked.
trustmeiknoweverythingaboutdogs
The purposes are SO INTENSE
idonotthinkitownswhatyouthinkitowns
I went extreme camping. It was in tents!
pookieeatworld
Did you hear the one about the pencil with erasers at both ends? There was no point to it...
WishingICouldPutAnApostropheInMyUsername
[purposes intensify]
TK421isAFK
Same as the risk of getting an STD disease (like the HIV virus) from typing your PIN number in a dirty ATM machine.
hushaboomtechnology
That is EXACTLY what I did.
AjaxTheLesser
I disagree. As an Ancient Greek, I know for a fact that I am all-seeing, all-wise, all-kind and all-beneficent
TK421isAFK
When did y'all start using Windex as a panacea?
notsocrazy24
I mean, Oedipus, really? Like, it was entirely Apollo's fault that Oedipus's situation happened, but Oedipus is supposedly the one to blame
distilledwill
Hey! did you know we've got a cleaning product named after you?
Meqad
But can you see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch?
AjaxTheLesser
Yes, but it would not be wise for me to divulge that information
drfarren
You have chosen wisely. The mortals are not ready for such wisdom. Do not commit the same folly as Prometheus.
rshackleford
but you aren't even a god. or a demi-god. or even the greater ajax ;<
Abapcathlapisconostic
This is lovely thank you.
shonasof
And immortal. Can't forget immortal.
Servo270
As an ancient greek, I am the wisest of all, for I know that I am an idiot. Or something to that effect.
AjaxTheLesser
"The Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing" - Socrates
drfarren
^^humble brag^^
mikeatike
Wow, I wonder how awesome AjaxTheGreater is, then.
AjaxTheLesser
He's ok. His publicist was pretty amazing though
vlej
He ment Ancient Greek Gods, not drunks
aerodynamit3
Kratos will be coming for you shortly
nicetrybutno
*All-spending.
notsocrazy24
Honestly, anyone who is familiar with Greek mythology would know that Zeus and Apollo would be just as bad to deal with as any other god(s).
flyingpumpkin
His point wasn't that they aren't bad, it was that they don't claim to be something they're not (all knowing all good etc)
notsocrazy24
They actually do have this tendency to claim to be all-powerful and all-knowing and then blame the humans and do something bad to them if
notsocrazy24
it turns out that they aren't all-powerful and all-knowing... so yeah.
flyingpumpkin
I guess emphasis should be on the all-good then, do they claim to be all-good? Lying about being all powerful isn't a big deal if you 1/2
flyingpumpkin
Admit you're a dick, God does not, the greek gods I assume did. People knew they were kind of ass holes. 2/2
notsocrazy24
People knew they were fucking assholes, but if anybody actually mentioned that shit, the Greek gods would get all offended and murder their
notsocrazy24
entire family or similar, so it's not like they were really better. It's just weird to me that one would use the Greek gods, who are
notsocrazy24
indisputably horrible and I would be every bit on Kratos's side, God of War III style, if they existed.
Sauroctonus
The best bit is if one starts fucking you over you can ask another one for help.
LMeire
Hades was pretty fair, his myths were usually about people hurting themselves after he gave them a simple rule or two.
notsocrazy24
Yeah, everyone seems to hate Hades in the myths, but honestly he was the most solid of the gods.
SwordSaint892
And with James Woods' voice, what a cool god for real.
Idra
The Greek mythology served as great examples at the time to teach people about moral and how to learn from your mistakes.
ASDFFDSAASDFASDF
mistake: being hot. punishment: swan rape followed by being cursed to turn men into stone by the jealous wife of your rapist. or something
ASDFFDSAASDFASDF
(i know i didn't remember that quite right)
khimeira
Turning her in the monster we know, and punish her to be such a beauty. No man will never look at her with desire, and nor she will
khimeira
It was Poseidon who banged Medusa on the temple of Athena. The goddess was not known to like either sex or blasphemy, so she changed Medusa
notsocrazy24
One could say the same about Christianity, that doesn't make their gods any less unreasonable.
Idra
Just as the Greek gods became mythology, perhaps Christianity will also become mythology in the future because they lost their audience.
drfarren
greek gods how only two differences from humans, they had a unique power and they were immortal. They all had foibles and the morals (1/2)
drfarren
were that even gods could make mistakes and that if they could, we could as well and like them we can learn form them. But the (2/3)
Xinbi
I'm sure no one is wondering... but the insect is Onchocerca volvulus, and humans are the only definitive host.
LeCacty
Almost google image searched it. Almost. Fuck curiosity.
TastyBrainMeats
Jesus. I thought it was a case of mistaken host, like with toxoplasmosis.
puddlejumper
This is the comment I was looking for.
jasta6
Thanks, I was wondering what he was talking about.
Jasonstone1989
I'm fairly certain David attenborough is atheist for this exact same reason. (correct me if I'm wrong)
ThatSmirkingHorseFromHighgarden
Apparently he's agnostic, actually.
ChanningTastum
Actually I was, so thank you. Also where are
Ricochet64
ONLY HUMANS WTF GOD
Faolon
If god exists, he's a fucking asshole.
cfcannon
I saw a story where God is an asshole because he's immortal and omniscient. Imagine living forever and knowing everything. What would you
cfcannon
enjoy? The whole of history has been spoiled for you and you'll never be surprised. You can't die even after trillions of years of boredom.
cfcannon
So God is cruel in the hope that somebody will find a way to end evil God's life and/or do something novel to God. Ultimate unlikely bet.
morehumanthanhuman
Nope, we don't want to know. La la la la la
apresminuit
>no pictures
amishcannoli
And then there's Naegleria fowleri.
hiimmat
Yeah... I don't look at swimming holes the same way I used to.
Vanhelm13
LeCacty
SO. FUCKING. METAL.
bradthegeek
Phew, risky click of the day.
yourFriendlyNeighborhoodBushSnake
Indeed. I almost regret my decision.
quary80
RedStarBeograd
DefinitelyNotASeahorse
I am complete. I didn't know this was a thing. I must now master photo shop and create an army.
HentaiSensai
Satanslittlechariotsoffailedpotential
RaineMaxwell
that is fucking glorious. i love it x)
Imgursaurus
I never knew that I needed these pictures in my life before.
yak3ftw
mrandrewv
That's fucking horrifying :/
eatyoualive
Holy crap.
MyKingdomForAHorse
Thank the gods the mobile wiki has no photos of an actual host...
thekhodontchaknow
Also, abberant parasite migration is a biotch. larval migrans from canine hookworms can go into eyes/brain. No thank you.
thefirstofhisusername
It's a nematode, not an insect.
littlegreenapple
IM SO MAD BECAUSE I WANT TO READ THE REPLIES BUT I CAN ONLY SEND ONE ESPRESSING MY ANGER IN CAPS >:C
cykes
And I am sure it is a native of NO country, in the continent of NoWayInHell. My skin is crawling, pun intended.
O1189998819991197253
Thx. Saving
DrSlappy
Don't blame God. Heck, if we put our money into preventing/treating the harm it causes instead of less noble causes...
idiotsonfire
If this mythical being supposedly created everything, then he's either ambivalent, evil or apathetic.
Rovex
I dont, there is no God. Fry isnt blaming God, he is just saying whoever made it (if it was intentional rather than just evolved) is cunt.
smeaglecat
and I'm over here like "Toxocara canis LOL"
MrTylerWpg
I was wondering, but only because I never wnted to sleep again.
thisisstuff
Dang nematodes.
MisterLurker
maybe we were supposed to get laser eyes to combat these insects, but that got messed up...? wait, that just makes it even worse!
Chesmu
I was wondering. I was thinking, "I could disprove this claim if there was another intermediate or definitive host"
giveittomestraightlikeapearcidermadefrom100percentpears
Yyyyep, definitely not doing a google image search for that...
feuerengel93
Did so. Instant regret
yak3ftw
It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.
giveittomestraightlikeapearcidermadefrom100percentpears
*I'm a fucking idiot, i just did a image search for that. If theres 2 things i can't stand its eyes and navals. I'm going to have nightmares
kittymack
Ohhh I know what insect that is now. Thanks for your description now I'll definitely not looking :)
Imuhjeen
I did...damn my curiosity. :(
giveittomestraightlikeapearcidermadefrom100percentpears
I felt the same when my old shop teacher told me,"if you want to know the dangers of using a lathe, dont google 'lathe incidents' on google"
giveittomestraightlikeapearcidermadefrom100percentpears
>GUESS the next thing i did a google image search for... Yep.. Lathe accidents.
mynameiswhatmynameiswhomynameischickachickaslimshady
I thought he was talking about preachers...
jadf
Oh thank god
AustralopithecusBoisei
Thanks for the info... and fuck that shit
emoluable
It's actually a nematode, not an insect! ~the more you know~
AllegedlyTonyDutch
HA SO STEVAN FRAI MUS BE WRAUNG
Axleoke
Nematodes sound a lot friendlier than they really are, buncha parasites and the like
plainwhitesarah
BATS AREN'T BUGS!
Crowfood
Calvin and Hobbes +1
Abyssion88
And knowing is half the battle
xXCALI559Xx
Gi joeeeee!
Abyssion88
Ou sir are awesome.
xXCALI559Xx
we had a good conversation
hardytardigrade
ugh, nematodes...
everyonesFavoriteNazi
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/20140518/5038800/nematode-o.gif
RedStarBeograd
~the more you set things on fire.
ragingcuppcakes
I actually learned this in bio today.
mcstreetz
http://www.walkingwithnora.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/nematode.jpg
iwouldprefernot
darxide
Does it matter if it's a nematode or an insect or a very, very tiny squirrel? The fact that it exists is the entire point.
emoluable
Some men just want to watch the world learn
DrLeonardChurch
http://31.media.tumblr.com/591203b11dfb48a30dcf619590f0e252/tumblr_nbgcwtNACO1txvrmeo1_250.gif
gb74
Actually, on imgur, it's known as a Nope.
FortheChellofit
Nemotoad?
TTurambarsGurthang
Also, it lives around 15 years inside you.
TheSnailGirl
The nematode is vectored by blackflies. I wonder if that's what Fry was thinking about...
joehh
I'm sure he knew, but dumbed it down
fuckyouthen
what's the difference?
yourstruly0
So some nemotodes burrow into the eye then spend all day farting around, but through their skin. Lovely, nature.>_>
yougotyourchocolateinmypeanutbutter
Really the only big similarly grouping them together is that they both molt. They're called ecdysozoans.
terribleinternetpunsfirstborn
I actually would also like to know this
yougotyourchocolateinmypeanutbutter
Nematodes aren't segemented, only have longitudinal muscles, don't have appendages and perform gas exchange through their skin.
emoluable
Nematodes are tiny worms, and are a totally different phylum to insects (nematoda vs arthropoda). Also insects have to have 6 legs!
OneZebraInAHerdOfWildebeests
Insects have to have 6 legs... Or typically be born with 6 legs
OneZebraInAHerdOfWildebeests
I learned this from amputating ants legs.. Not proud..
TheGingerBeardedBiologist
And in the lab, you have to catch them with a hair on a stick while looking through a microscope.
IlCastradore
Or just look very, very closely
IntellectualBadAss
spacerocks
Nematodes are roundworms (own phylum) while insects are six-legged arthropods (different phylum).
spacerocks
Side-note -- nematodes are so close biologically to people that it's hard to design drugs or compounds that kill them without killing people
TrueChaoSxTcS
Huh. The more you know
eagle193
thanks, obama
Identified
And it's life span?
spacerocks
Less than a '
GiantCrustaceanFromThePaleolithicEra
15 years on the wiki
GodEmperorOfImgur
About the blink of an eye.
FishPotatoesOil
huhuhu
ididntgetthejobatfruitloops
Nice
BitchButcher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onchocerca_volvulus Up to 2 years. But about 100% of people living in "infested" areas are a host.
PunkassUnicorn
2 years is just one of the stages.
Fillask
I'd think that'd be a reason to relocate, tbh..
mechanimated
They're probably not allowed. Seems like one of those illnesses that automatically preclude travel outside the country, at the least.
Peanutmm
Where does it say anything about eating outwards from the eye on the wiki?
BitchButcher
Eating outwards? Don't know what you mean. - I didn't read the English wiki, I read the German, there is more information.
Peanutmm
In the pictures he says that the worm eats outwards from the middle of the eye... I can't find anything that says that in the wiki
khtad
...which is where? Because I'm not living there ever.
BitchButcher
Tropical Africa, Mexico, Guatemala, Venezuela, Ecuador and Jemen.
khtad
Grazi.
onepunchwoman
Can... Can you get them from eating truck stop sandwiches? http://imgur.com/X99PS3Q
RedStarBeograd
Bitch you might
snusmegaman
Ever wonder what makes special sauce so special?
covertpetersen
Yo!
abeardedblacksmith
I regularly buy food at truck stops hoping these kinds of parasites are in it.
perfectoon0901
We'll have to irritate your pelvic splanchnic ganglion and cause an intestinal spasm, expelling, among other things, the parasites.
allthenamesaregone
"Yo!"
TTurambarsGurthang
Maybe if you eat that truck stop sandwich in Africa and you are bitten by a parasitized Black Fly.
InanityWolf
I've always wanted those guys.
WindrunnerTheMovie
Yeah
Jimmycjacobs
Woah! Wait-a-minute man!
thehatjesty
I was wondering. I'm gonna make an assumption here and assume it lives in Australia.
Berethian
Nah. we get the strange and stabby. Things infesting your body is Africa or South America.
ASDFFDSAASDFASDF
huh, i'd assume shitty africa personally. australia is more "home of the needlessly toxic and weird" not "this is why god hates you" iirc
twirling
So true
hypostatic
Africa, actually
thehatjesty
Perhaps this nematode will have the good decency to burrow into Haram's eyes? Here's hoping.
Eowyneb
Where in africa? It is such a huge continent.
hypostatic
More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onchocerciasis#Epidemiology
Eowyneb
thank you, never going there.