Zo0bear
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Mar 14, 2017 4:21 PM
Zo0bear
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TheUglyGuy
So still theft?
Nalianna
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg - The IT Crowd - Series 2 - Episode 3: Piracy warning
PurpWizard
https://youtu.be/ALZZx1xmAzg
hawknutz
Frankly that argument is retarded. Imagine you do skilled work for someone and they dont pay you. You still have a skill and lost money
Dave81j6
Its the difference of digital vs. physical items, not theft verse piracy. Taking something that you don't own that costs something is theft
antifolkhero
The problem is that someone designed and built that car, and copying means they make $0 for this. Do you work for free?
thefreshjedi
Pirates are cooler than ninjas. But pirate ninjas? Now they are fucking cool.
Nalianna
If I travel to Jamaica, and download a movie, does that make me a Pirate of the Caribbean?
BigFatCatTats
I'm guessing people who post these kinds of things think game developers and musicians deserve no money for whatever they make.
Irishred23
SmileDHJ
Thought piracy was theft by sea?.....
sovietfedor
Mindblowing. I'll go download a movie now.
userofthenet12
Well, you know, sometimes a game in my country costs 1/10 of somebody's salary. Add DLC after few months... Who is a thief?
SmallButWhole
All depends on if you believe intellectual property is something to be protected.
SmallButWhole
Do government-granted monopolies do more harm then good? Or more good than harm? Can an idea be property? This has been debated for ages
SmallButWhole
I'd argue that a lot of protections of intellectual property have the potential to prop corporations up in the market and kill competition
SmallButWhole
Protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry being one example. But one area where protection of intellectual property can't do harm is art
PeterNormal
Home sewing is killing fashion!
chefchris357
So why is buying a second hand copy perfectly legal?
Legdig
Seeders though
cucciwolf
The heroes that go unnoticed, the real MVP'S.
ShamelessOToole
Piracy can make people money. For example, I pirate a movie and love it. I tell everyone I know it was great. A handful of them pay to see >
kekkres
piracy CAN do a lot of things, it can be a free demo or free advertising, but it can also just be a free option for someone who is cheap
kekkres
its impossible to tell the net impact one way or the other
ShamelessOToole
> it that wouldn't have before. I would never pay for it, so if I didn't pirate it that's lost revenue. Logic is a bitch.
SATANSTOPSCREAMING
its still illegal :D
SATANSTOPSCREAMING
But who cares im watching jackass whether i have money or not
WayneBruceWayne
Funny how this is being posted on a site that constantly complains about repost
tarataqa
It's funny how this is being posted on a site that constantly posts copyrighted material without compensation to the owner(s).
LoganDodson
Eh, when we're are talking about IP, it's a little different than the issue of physical property. Given that information is intangible ...
LoganDodson
, once you start copying and distributing it, you are stealing value of that information from its creator. Piracy is just as shitty as theft
beardsandbeers
Sharing is caring.
L0rdAv0n
seeding is believing
jfoc6789
Spread the wealth!
jujimuffin
Sharing is communism.
SimpleMemeFarmer
Seed the results of production.
TrijezniMujo
Piracy is caring?
LamentableLamp
Isn't theft by gunpoint. So burglary is more fitting
DustyLightning
robbery is with violence, theft is without.
DustyLightning
or so it's labeled in canadian law, which is.quite similar to american/uk/aus/etc
LamentableLamp
Ah thank you for correcting me!!! Sorry everyone
poopstermcpoop
DeltaByte
Snowballing.
Raggart
Originally piracy *was* theft so the use of the same word for "theft that doesn't destroy the original" is confusing, I agree.
thisuserdoesnotexisthere
In your analogy eventually car companies would stop making cars. Because they'd go out of business.
Somanyquestions
Haven't people been saying this about movies for over a decade?
rIOsK
different markets and distribution, the similarity doesn't fit
tarataqa
My dad taught me how to bootleg Betamax tapes back in '80. Hollywood is still a multi-billion dollar industry. (I'm sorry, Dad. I tried!!)
Somanyquestions
You're a disappointment to parents everywhere!
tarataqa
http://pleasedonotbend.co.uk/media/uploads/work/0808_Nightworks.jpg
Clevererusernameiscleverer
They're probably making more money at the box office to compensate.
ThingsWithinThings
I'd say comparing cars, which can only be physical, tangible things, to movies is not really all that worthwhile.
Nprudym
I feel like if free demos were a thing, or early access was free like beta testing, piracy would drop considerably. Try before you buy.
BewareTheIceSpiders
Bull. People pirate because they falsely feel entitled to the product but they dont want to pay the asked price.
Blackjackal1122
Just boarding your sinking ship as pirates bombard you with their downvote. Frankly, I think there is pretty big gray zone to this topic 1/2
LunarRhythm
I would love that. Before Spotify and Apple Music, I pirated all my new music. Wasn't worth buying if it ended up sucking, but obviously 1/2
LunarRhythm
I wasn't gonna buy after I'd already downloaded. 2/2
Nprudym
(Cont.) It would also discourage a game staying in early access limbo forever. If you want money, release the full game.
PeteTusk
Are free demos not still "a thing"?
tarataqa
I remember Quake cd-rom that was a demo that contained full versions if you bought and unlocked it. They cracked it and everything was free!
SpiderEyes
And here I thought piracy was sailing on the ocean stealing shit.
47MexicanWhoopingLlamas
https://media.giphy.com/media/9uZjQYooOBsvm/giphy.gif
Freedomfairy
It is in a sense, stealing the "right to consume" content. What you buy digitally is the legal right/license to use the product.
PeteTusk
"from a certain point of view"
Tom40
We're not pirates, we're privateers.
TheDesolationOfBanter
Actually according to lazy town the very act of wanting to sail the seas immediately makes you a pirate
PsychopompGecko
https://media.giphy.com/media/SSmDlehhBmGvm/giphy.gif
cat7e
Sailing, sailing, jumping of the railing. Drinking, drinking, 'till the ship is sinking.
FriendlyNeighbourhoodSatan
Yarrr, dont tell me my buisness, or i'll take all yer dubloons and gut ya like a fish
relatablesarcasticguy
According to @op you'll take a copy of the dubloons
PsychopompGecko
Yar, there be many ways to exploit blockchains to steal bitdubloons.
FlappinBurgers
They only made COPIES of the coins from the other ships, so that's why they were pirates not thieves
PeteTusk
Lesson 2: "Piracy" of information isn't even piracy.
TheJuanAnd0nly
I guess shit is to be found when looking for booty
illthinkofsomethingcleverlater
I think that called privacy. Another often broken law
SaintOfBloodletting
Piracy: violence or depredation on the high seas or in the air, for private ends, using aircraft or vessels
SpqrMcmlxxxvi
Are you talking Somali piracy or colonial era nothing to drink but beer on the boat piracy?
throatfrog
Do you maybe mean privacy?
NabsterDownloads
Owlberightback
Maybe it's policy.
DJTrickyM
Piracy is my policy!
OlCaptainDrunkeyMonkey
Policy is piracy
HolyOldMackinaw
Pirates didn't drink beer, they drank rum and associated beverages such a grog
SpqrMcmlxxxvi
Yeah I was initially gonna say grog, but my auto correct changed it 4 times in a row and it made me sad.
ballsinholes
AJCanuck
That's only because they couldn't copy and return the booty...otherwise they would have
Laeryc
Copying treasure would decrease the value of what they stol so no they wouldnt
AJCanuck
I doubt they could have a significant effect on gold, and consumables are situational, so sure they would
Laeryc
Alot of treasure wasnt gold and its uniqueness gave it its value . One mona lisa is pricey but even 5 or 10 goes down fast
AJCanuck
Fair enough, but a lot were also common commodities that would not lose much value if copied
dooremouse
No, I'm pretty sure they would have still taken the original too.
AJCanuck
https://media.giphy.com/media/z7Rtz6bPxpQ2c/giphy.gif
Zo0bear
Also: http://imgur.com/ZMPuXyV
TallLightnHandsome
YES!!
MrWolfwood
BACK IN MY DAY, WE DID IT WITH CHILD LABOUR, AND WE LIKED IT!
dokpsy
I downloaded a car roughly thirty minutes after getting my printer set up. Because welcome to the 21st century!
Bfizzle
You even took the same comment from the other post on the FP? You're not even trying
fizzlebuns
Car manufacturers are currently starting programs to 3d print car parts.
Splosions
saw a fully 3d printed car at CES, not sure how they do the metal parts, but they claim the entire car was printed,
DavidBrooker
3D printing STARTED with metal. Polymer based methods came later. 3D SLS machines started popping up in the 80s.
DavidBrooker
(The difference being that 3D SLS is expensive as hell and isn't coming to your home anytime soon)
fizzlebuns
You can 3d print metal. I work in jewelry and we do it all the time with gold and platinum.
Drinkyourkoolaid
It is theft of profit. They may not have lost a physical thing but they're lost the potential to get paid.
tarrbot
The pirate often would never buy it to begin with. You can't equate 1:1 loss on it.
DocStrangeLuv
Then the pirate doesn't need it and should not derive utility for that of which they have stolen. Fuck off.
tarrbot
I never said I pirated. What did I do to you?
Nalianna
there was no potential, i had 0% chance to pay for it, because of the immensely low wages.
sadpersonissad
Studies have shown that the majority of individuals that pirate content would never have purchased the content anyway, so it's not a lost 1/
sadpersonissad
purchase instead of pirate, especially in today's age of online content stores like Steam. 3/3
sadpersonissad
sale. Piracy is more of an indication of the value of the content to the customer: if they value it enough and have the means, they'll 2/
TheVRay
This assumes I'd be willing to purchase the downloaded thing at a price higher than free.
DuckPlatoon
If you aren't willing to pay for it then you don't get it. That's how commerce works.
Nalianna
let me teach you about this thing called piracy. It's how one get sit for free.
DuckPlatoon
Yeah that's stealing. If you wouldn't take something for free from the store why does it being digital make it better?
DuckPlatoon
Lol really? I called piracy what it is and someone was so butthurt they felt the need to go downvote a bunch of my comments.
Ketchum
But it still removes the profit the seller was supposed to get from the purchase. So it ends up being theft by that definition.
JustAnotherMeh
You cannot prove a loss of sale. What if the person pirating it buys it later and/or encourages other people to buy it?
tarrbot
Supposed to get? No. Many times the pirate wasn't going to buy it to begin with.
iamthisguy247
And many times they would. I don't think it's as simple as saying they only pirate that which they wouldn't buy. Most probably do both.
tarrbot
Sure. The point was that it's not a direct 1:1 loss. Many companies through history have tried to pull that 1:1 loss stunt
someHiddenStuff
And if they're not going to buy it, they shouldn't get to have it. Why should it be morally ok for someone to get it for free because they
someHiddenStuff
don't like paying for it?
tarrbot
Did I say that? No, I didn't.
someHiddenStuff
You can't use 'they wouldn't have bought it at all' as a justification because that's exactly what that argument entails
tarrbot
You have some issues. I didn't justify anything. If you want to extrapolate that, that's on you not me.
JustAnotherMeh
It wasn't a justification. Morality aside, if the person pirating it would've never bought it then nothing was lost by them downloading it.
thisuserdoesnotexisthere
It's not theft of the content. It's theft of the benefits of the content's creation.
StraightForwardBio
Like a reposter making front page off someone elses OC
PeteTusk
Which causes exactly as much actual damage.
NotLegalAdvice1
patapof
In Canada, Supreme Court ruled that it's not theft. It's a violation of the copyright holder's rights, which is on one hand criminal [1/2]
PeteTusk
Well Canada gets less corrupt corporate attention, and is less anti-intellectual than the USA, so I'm not surprised they did a better job.
sqag
Is there any reasonable justification for it being criminal? Since it is all about money, I would expect it to be civil.
patapof
and entitles the copyright holder to get back what he lost because of the violation. It's still criminal, but it's not theft of anything.
HelloToe
""The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors, but ‘[t]o promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts.' (1)
SpruceCaboose
And how is it promoted, chucklenuts? By the ability to make money off of it and fund further work.
HelloToe
To this end, copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and (2)
HelloToe
information conveyed by a work. This result is neither unfair nor unfortunate. It is the means by which copyright advances the (3)
rIOsK
so pirates should create their (better) games, not copying other's
AxelYamanaka
Yeah, pretty much. It's like my grandparents used to say "you want it, you make it yourself."
HelloToe
progress of science and art." - former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor
11235813213455891442333776109871597
By giving legal ownership to intellectual property, people can have a career making things and with patents they share their general design.
hraka
That's probably why the copyright term extends every time Mickey is up
PeteTusk
Because otherwise people might make more Mickey crap, which would be lame?
hraka
Otherwise Disney would lose the copyright and not have exclusive rights to license and make money from Mickey
PeteTusk
I was being sarcastic, on the point of how copyright extensions are somehow going to improve creativity.
IronicUsername
More specifically, it's theft of the content owners' exclusive rights to distribute the content.
PeteTusk
Which also isn't theft.
cuzimonvacation
I'll never share you my eraser then. I might hurt the one who made it! :( You gonna have to BUY a new one.
PeteTusk
Unless I don't.
cuzimonvacation
Then... don't!?
PeteTusk
Point being that it's not true that people who copy things would have otherwise had to buy them.
FirstEdition
Really its the destruction of the power to exclusive distribution. Its not like the pirate now can distribute exclusively
PeteTusk
More like the ignoring of the supposed but unenforceable entitlement to exclusive distribution.
IronicUsername
Good point, that's a better way to put it.
kasaku
You can't steal rights.
lonelylinguist
True, legally/logically it’s infringement. Similarly, identity theft is only metaphorically theft—you can’t literally steal who someone is.
kasaku
And intellectual property rights aren't real rights. It should be called intellectual property privilege.
lonelylinguist
I think most people would agree w/ you, but I don’t think rights meaningfully differ from privileges. They’re both granted & can be revoked.
RyanMcFlyin
oh, the benefits are still there.
RyanMcFlyin
well, this was meant to be a funny aside, meaning 'benefits' still exist somewhere, or the one obtaining 'benefits'-now look at all this:
secretlibby
If your job is recording songs and someone distributes your means of survival for free, you starve. Where are the benefits?
AHorticulturistIsJustANerdyGardener
Studies show that piracy does not affect sales. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21856720
thisuserdoesnotexisthere
I will never understand how the younger generations think this is okay. Someone else made it. It's theirs to decide how others obtain it.
tarrbot
This didn't start with the "younger generation". There was Usenet back in the day. Same concept. Much higher prices. Softimage was $30k s/w
tarrbot
Every pirated Softimage download was not a $30k loss to Softimage. The pirates weren't going to buy it anyway. They just used it
AHorticulturistIsJustANerdyGardener
A) Piracy doesn't affect sales. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21856720 B) This means that all us horrible pirates who've said all along
AHorticulturistIsJustANerdyGardener
2) that we support artists or are too broke to buy it at the moment were *gasp* telling the truth. C) Now that "A" is in play, does it
AHorticulturistIsJustANerdyGardener
3) still bother you, and why?
DarkUranium
Well, pirates avoid draconian DRM which can in some cases destroy your CD drive or cause computer instability. (1/?)
DarkUranium
Most piracy is actually due to a complete unavailability of the product (2/?)
DarkUranium
--- studies have proven that e.g. films very often get pirated due to different US/EU release dates. There's also region locking. (3/?)
tarrbot
Unfortunately, that's false too. Many piracy advocates would never buy the content to begin with. Therefore it's not a loss many times
DocStrangeLuv
'It's not a loss many times' even if its ONCE - its stealing. If you dont want to pay for it, dont use it. Fuck ofd
tarrbot
That's worded poorly. I'm only trying to convey it's not a 1:1 ratio like many companies want to believe
DocStrangeLuv
Separate arguement than one trying to justify the blatant stealing of intellectual property.
tarrbot
Again poor wording. I don't justify piracy. I'm a CTO. I pay licenses and support costs and such. Every time.
TuggSpeedmann
I believe in trying a digital product before buying.
TangoIndiaTangoSierra
I have downloaded many games...many. Only two are still pirated, the others I could finally afford and buy cuz I wanted the updates and mods
crazysmile
In fact in many cases it can encourage purchase of other related products. Example consumer pirates comic books 1/2
crazysmile
They then like the hero and purchase other products like tshirt w/ character or a different comic featuring same hero cause they like hero2
Dedrick427
And some, after using it for so long, decide to buy it over anything else when they can afford to.
tarrbot
Yes, this happens too. I owned legit copies of 3DS Max and Lightwave at one time.
OrC23
But they still use it regardless of original intent of buying it. That is theft if it costs money to obtain legally.
TangoIndiaTangoSierra
So... You're saying.... If I stole someone elses slave...
LotusClown
Yes.Slaves are considered property therefor it would be theft. Just like beating a slave would be vandalism. PS. I'm not advocating slavery
TangoIndiaTangoSierra
I've been downvoted enough but I wanted you to know I agree, I was just joking +1
krapmyself
And opposition would argue that if they aren't willing to pay, then they don't need it.
rosiethereaver
As someone that definitely is not a pirate....you're right. I don't need it, and I wouldn't pay for it even if I couldn't pirate it.
rosiethereaver
As someone that definitely is not a pirate....you're right. I don't need it, and I wouldn't pay for it even if I couldn't pirate it.
IronicUsername
"Many piracy advocates would never buy the content to begin with" Since you said "most" not "some," you have numbers to back that up, no?
JustAnotherMeh
You cannot prove loss of sale. Same goes the other way.
tarrbot
I didn't say "most". I said "many".
IronicUsername
Wow, totally right. I even read it twice and still saw "most." I'm dumb.
tarrbot
No worries on my end. :)
ihadtochangemyusernamebecauseIdrawpornasaliving
People are more likely to buy something if there isn't a free copy obtainable.
rosiethereaver
Only if it's something worth buying. I consume a lot of free things I would happily live without if I could no longer get them for free.
JustAnotherMeh
Piracy is often a service issue. When all content is available easily and affordably without region restrictions there will be less piracy.
DocStrangeLuv
Piracy is more often not a service issue.
Euronyme
Without region restrictions, poorer countries would never afford to buy expensive shit. It'd just be more profitable to not sell to them
ihadtochangemyusernamebecauseIdrawpornasaliving
I agree.
VesuvianPrime
Piracy enables discovery, I buy tons of music because I was able to hear it first.
DocStrangeLuv
Surely your ancedotal story is legally binding and should be the basis of copyright law.