Some information about "socialism" in Germany

Feb 13, 2016 11:31 AM

ScoreQuest

Views

107710

Likes

3487

Dislikes

150

So recently a lot of people have said that Bernie Sanders comparing the system in the US to countries like Denmark or Norway is problematic, because the US has over 300 million people and those countries have fewer than 6 million. As a German I couldn't help but wonder why nobody pointed out that our country has 82 million people, which is of course still not even close to the US population but as close as a European country can get (as we are the most populous.) Anyways, here is some information about how things work in Germany, I hope you are interested. I will provide sources, but of course they are in German, so I guess you'll have to trust me :)

DISCLAIMER: Most of this is based on my personal experience and research. If you see things that are wrong, please tell me, so I can correct them. This is NOT meant as criticism of the US or any other country, nor is it meant as propaganda for Germany. There are many of things that are better in other countries (we STILL do not have gay marriage or adoption rights for instance), I merely wanted to give you guys a bit of information about some of the things that people have talked about in recent months, especially in the wake of Bernie Sanders' bid for the Democratic nomination.

Well, I go to a public University in Germany. I pay ca. 250€ a Semester.
For this money I get:
- The ability to attend classes and earn my degree (obviously)
- A ticket for all forms of public transportation in my area (which would be a lot more expensive otherwise, this alone is worth the cost)
- My student ID which allows me to get many discounts (cinema, library, museums etc.)
- I do NOT get my textbooks for this money!

Source: http://www.hochschulkompass.de/studium/studienbeitraege-studienfinanzierung/semesterbeitrag-studienbeitrag.html

- There is a program in Germany called "BAföG", which is short for "Bundesausbildungsförderungsgesetz" (yes, I know, the Germans and their long words), this roughly translates to "Federal law for the support of education"
- This is a monthly loan from the state, which you have to pay back in monthly rates, beginning five years after you complete your education (or dropped out)
- Depending on how much money your parents are able to provide you, how much money you have in trustfunds, how much you earn from your job and whether you still live at home you can receive up to 670€ a month
- You only have to pay back HALF of what you received and there is no interest
- No matter how much you received, you will not have to pay more than 10.000€
- This loan is NOT indefinite. If you fail too many courses or drop out and start over with a new subject, the state will deny you BAföG

Source: https://www.bafög.de

- There are two kinds of health insurance in Germany, private and public
- I don't know much about the private kind, as none of my family or friends are privately insured
- Depending on your job, income and age, you pay a monthly fee to your insurance
- As I am a university student, I pay around 80€ a month
- Someone who earns 1200€ would pay ca. 100€, someone who earns 5000€ would pay ca. 350€ and so on
- If you're under the age of 25, you are automatically insured through your parents
- For this money you get everything EXCEPT some dental work, most prescrition drugs (which are much cheaper here) and cosmetic surgery

Source: https://www.krankenkassen.de/gesetzliche-krankenkassen/krankenkasse-beitrag/

- If you are out of work (or unable to work for reasons of health), the state gives you money each month
How much money you receive depends on multiple factors:
- How long you have been unemployed
- Whether or not you decline job offers while unemployed (the state will periodically decrease how much you get if you do this)
- However, no matter how many offers you decline, the state will always pay your rent (as long as you don't live in a ridiculously expensive house/apartment) and your gas/energy/water bills
- No matter how many offers you decline, you will not receive less than 300€ a month to live (in addition to your rent/other bills)
- IMPORTANT: I am not completely sure on this point (I have never been unemployed), as there are many factors that go into calculating how much money you receive (Whether you have children and how many, how long you worked before being unemployed, whether you have a disability which does not allow you to work etc.)

Source: https://www.arbeitsagentur.de/web/content/DE/BuergerinnenUndBuerger/Arbeitslosigkeit/Arbeitslosengeld/Detail/index.htm?dfC

As an angry German, can confirm. This is what 'socialism' looks like over here. Not as bad as some of you guys imagined I bet.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I am dealing with it by calling it what it is: devoid of any real content or supporting evidence. No more relevant than a guess or opinion.

9 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

As a French, pretty much the same

10 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 0

Germany and France like to learn a lot from each other when they're not at war. :)

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

"USA has 300 million people!" Bitch, it's about percentages.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

very nice information ... thanks for this informative post

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

BAföG - If you are able to pay cash and you don't want it monthly, you don't pay the half but 1/3 of all your debt.

10 years ago | Likes 88 Dislikes 5

Also, if you are NOT able to pay it back in a certain amount of time (I am not exactly sure how long though) will they just call it even.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Similar discount in Australia, where if you pay the university fees upfront it costs about 25% less than if you repay the gov loan monthly.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

In France, we have something similar (my parents earn minimum wage so I get 450€/month to study, for 6 years max) but no need to pay it back

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I didn't even know that, pretty interesting.

10 years ago | Likes 36 Dislikes 0

you'll get a letter from the BAFÖG amt.there it's written how much you have to pay back in total.furthermore there are chances to reduce 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

this total amount by paying it back in whole.This discount goes up to 55% (this is if your total amount is 24k or more)

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You have to APPLY (beantragen!) for this - I skipped this and payed nearly ALL of the 10.000... FML

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

I appreciated this post's non-argumentative tone

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

If I don't survive tell my wife hello.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

It's a beige alert

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

250€ = $281.41 FOR UNIVERSITY ffs America.

10 years ago | Likes 44 Dislikes 3

Yeah depends on where you are and whether the university you attend is funded by the government or private. I pay ~300€ per semester 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And a friend of mine payed 450€ a month... makes a big difference

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Living in Rostock, I'm paying 130€/Semester for everything except buying books. I can lend them for free though.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Don't forget the "dual studies" - Duales Studium

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

This is the kind of post that warms my heart. Key ingredients: Germany

10 years ago | Likes 26 Dislikes 3

Are you sure that isn't the oven?

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

I feel the same, and I'm only half German. Germany FTW +1.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

I feel the same, and I'm only planning on possibly moving to Germany once I graduate.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I read this entire thing in a German accent.

10 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 4

Me too! But i´m German soo yeah.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Also important: No speed limit on the Autobahn! :D Well, okay: Sometimes there's a speed limit, sometimes there is...

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 2

Speed-Limits are almost everywhere now - only a few are free.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn_(Deutschland)#Tempolimit says more than half is ∞. No source given though. :/

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

There are still tons of "Autobahns" wich have no limit.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Not too weird, when you consider how much political capital can be generated by appealing to emotion over logic.

9 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Denmark: free education completely. Except books. Transportation you still get cheaper. Healthcare free; covered by taxes. Not medicine.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Britain is weird. On the one hand our student loans are much bigger and we have to pay them all back (interest free), but we have fully 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

They're making sure you live to pay your debt! ;)

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

2/2 universal healthcare. We have very little consistency compared to other European countries.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

there is just one big mistake. all those things are not socializm its social democratic. thats a huge difference ddr was socialistic or ussr

10 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 6

Wouldnt these fall under the definition of State socialsim?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

Socialism = Worker ownership of production. This is capitalism with a large welfare system.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

DDR and USSR was more authocratic state capitalism. No country has ever been a true socialist state. Maybe Rev. Catalonia, but that's it.

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

Honestly, only in the US do people generally conflate socialism with communism.

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

Sweet name

10 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

im trying to talk aboput serious things here. stop objectifying me to my name. thanks

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

as a Belgian, i can confirm we relate to this. Not in detail, but generally, yes.

10 years ago | Likes 101 Dislikes 2

Healthinsurance is cheaper and we're forced to eventually get a job but yeah

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

France is the same but the grant we get to study doesn't need to be paid back.

10 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

Neighbor The Netherlands here. And here it's also pretty much the same. With the inclusion of gay marriage, abortion and weed.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

We're not as nice on the student loan front though, and our insurance is private but with heavy government influence.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

As someone from Britain (Scotland, specifically, though I attended university in England) it's comparable to our system, too.

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Student loans don't have to be paid back at all tho. I'm a dirty orphan and get around 5000 in support a year for attending college.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Pretty much the same as the UK

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

+1. But could've done with some close-up photos of German cuisine.

10 years ago | Likes 258 Dislikes 4

Imgur is already a sausage fest tho

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

What like Frankfurters and Hamburgers? America isn't exactly missing out on those anyway! haha

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Hamburgers aren't German; all claimants to their invention were in America. But yes, various sausage, sauerbraten, pretzels, all on my mind.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Oh well there's some unexpected facts

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Ah, the food of brown and yellow!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Apfeltaschen please!

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

That would make this the wurst post

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

And a Döner Kebab. Berlin has the best imho.

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 1

Stuttgart too.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

I stayed in Remseck am Neckar in 2004. Stüttgart is such a great place.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That's where the Döner as we know it today has been born, after all!

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I live in Berlin, and it's true, all of it

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Mensch. Ich vermisse Deutschland.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Ich auch. Bester Döner immer noch in München, imho.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I should really eat some breakfast.

10 years ago | Likes 36 Dislikes 0

Have some Brötchen with Leberwurst!

10 years ago | Likes 26 Dislikes 0

OH FUCK I just google-image searched that. That's it I'm going to my nearest bakery and buying EVERYTHING

10 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0

Lol. Most German food is fucking great. BTW, also get stroopwavel (Dutch food, Google it)

10 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

its written as 'stroopwaFels' :)

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Love me some stroopwavels :)

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

THAT'S SOCIAL DEMOCRACY NOT SOCIALISM (thank you!)

10 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 5

This needs more upvotes. Socialism = Worker ownership of production and collectivization of the economy.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Planned economy * right?

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Not necessarily. Plenty of socialists want free markets and democracy in the work place.

9 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Muralists I believe is the word I think you need planned market for socialism

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Mutualist*

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

2/2 history disagree with you.

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And as for a planned economy being integral to socialism: Bakunin, Kropotkin, and the half dozen social anarchist revolutions throughout 1/2

9 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

"Bundesausbildungsförderungsgesetz" thats quite a mouthful.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

*Also i have nothing really bad to say about Germany. As a Brit, there is loads and loads we could take and use over here. That would work.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

What is your marginal tax rate including federal, state and applicable taxes including sales tax, income tax, carbon taxes, etc?

10 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 3

Sales tax, carbon tax etc. are not income taxes and thus the concept of marginal tax rate doesn't really apply.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I realize that which is why I asked for them as well. Need an idea of how much people are paying for what they are getting

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

That's the tax burden. About 25% in the US, 40% in Germany.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Ahh. That's the term! Thanks!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I pay 42% of my income in taxes and contributions (health, social, pension). Value-added tax (VAT) is generally 19%, except 7% for food etc.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Cool. Thanks!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

When I worked there it was about 30-35% of my income and I only paid 35 euros a month for healthcare

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

Holy crap. That includes goods and services taxes? Do they tax the hell out of businesses? Or is the German economy so strong they don't?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

No I'd suppose with goods & services it would be closer to 40%. Yes, very much so. Also I never met truly "rich" people. Weathly (1/2)

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

But not our concept of rich in the US. Houses are in fact tiny even when wealthy. My ex German bf was shocked when visiting Chicago. (2/2)

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Teh intrawebs tell me there are ~100 billionaires in Germans. Pretty decent amount for a country of 82 million!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Apparently, they just don't profiteer the heck out of their taxpayers and waste money on the military.

10 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

just as a note, public health care costs cap at a monthly income of 4237€ - so if you earn more you wont be paying more in healthinsurance

10 years ago | Likes 52 Dislikes 1

I want to add that "free healthcare" is bullshit of course. If you have a job, the money will simply be drafted from your income as part 1/3

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Still, you probably pay in your lifetime less than you would for a complex surgery in US

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

"private" healthcare insurance and will have to pay what Flaneur mentioned on a monthly basis, income or no. 3/3

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

of the taxation process itself. I want to add that if you have no job and you got denied for unemployment benefits, you WILL have to get 2/3

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

the sad fact, 90% of research is done in the US, the US subsidizes everyone else who has controlled prices and gets a free ride

10 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 30

Don't downvote this, idiots, it's largely true.

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 17

I've never heard this but I'd be happy to read any links you guys can provide

10 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

it's not, it's very wrong. @FeelsSadMan gave links above (in response to @december1984).

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Nope you're wrong. In 2011 it was about 40% but since america is such a large country this isn't very surprising. Also these papers 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

are cited less on average than several of these "socialist" countries you consider to be freeloaders.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Honest question, how many people refuse to work & live off the government? How much does the minimum allow you to live? Is it comfortable?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

it seems that like around 4% of welfare recipients get sanctioned, because of their unwillingness and other factors.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The percentage of unemployed pl in 2014 was 2%. Of these 2% were 37% for more than 12 months unemployed or 20% out of 2% for more than 24mth

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

at the moment it is 404€ - but you can get money for your home too. it's not comfortable - but you can live on it (thats the sense of it).

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

There's always some, but who cares? If you don't drink or smoke, the cash isn't grand, but enough. Can't rec the experience regardless.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Having lived on Harz 4 (welfare) for about 2 years I'll say that it's enough to survive but there's no room for luxury. It's the minimum.

10 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Depends on how you define comfortable. You are able to live without benefits like Cinema, going to a Pub or on Holiday. 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

But you are able to buy enough food and some cheap beer and some cheap clothes. So for some poor countries this seems very comfortable.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Dutchman here, we have similar welfare. Barely anyone chooses welfare, it's barely enough to live on. And the social stigma is rough!

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Have you seen 'People of Walmart'? Do you think social stigma is an issue there?

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

There will always be a very small percentage of people without shame. No reason to let many more suffer without a safety net for that reason

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Oh honey, PoW is just the tip of the iceberg.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

It may take a generation or two, but their ranks will diminish when access to proper housing, food, schools, etc. is made more available.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

some minor correction: Students dont get their ticket for "free". here it'S ~120€ per semester. 2: health care covers less and less

10 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 1

In the US I'm paying $220 a TERM (there's 3 terms in a year, 4 if you take summer courses).

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

NL here, I pay €2k/year and that's the cheapest possible way

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Depends on the Bundesland.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

as someone who underwent chemo last year: i paid 230€ in total for my treatment. 10€ for each day i was in the hospital for my surgeries.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

thats not that much - i hope you're ok so far?

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

i am back at my 250€ a semester uni :) life's good. hope you are good as well!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Breaking Good

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

also most medical care you have to pay something extra (not much): for example: 10€ per day in a hospital.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

and you can get an insurance for that too.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Only 10€ per day!? In the US it's $100 just to walk in the door, never mind staying there.

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

[deleted]

[deleted]

10 years ago (deleted Jan 4, 2017 8:50 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

In Estonia it's 5€ to visit ER.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I paid 10 Euro in Austria for a Ambulance ride once. US is messed up.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Ok, thanks for the corrections! But the 120€ are not on top of the 250€ per Semester, right? I live in NRW

10 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 1

3: BaföG is badly explained. My dad theoretically earns around 3.5k brutto. But has bills to pay that eat most of this. I don't get jack.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

So its basically a pell grant here in the US then. I never got anything because my parents made too much even if there were 3 of us & bills

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Exactly.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I´m going to university in Dresden and it´s included in the ~250€ per semester

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

In Kassel it´s also included

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Here in Thür. it's 190€ per Semester, Ticket is included.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

In Niedersachsen it's included

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

i guess every city / university has its own way. depending also on the local öpnv.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

here it is. on top of it. i live inBaWü

10 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Nice, probably study in HD or MA right? Hi Buddy :)

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Ok, so there's a slight difference from state to state. 370€ still don't compare to the prices of US Universities

10 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 0

Its doesnt. 4 years of university and I'm in 55k (in dollars). That doesnt included the money out of pocket for rent, food, ect.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

(as a german) JESUS H. CHRIST!! - how do you even plan a future with all this debt. Some people also want to start a family, after uni.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

As a financially dumb person, how s the government able to fund all these endeavors? Are there much higher income taxes?

10 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 2

The way that Europe funds programs in is a VAT, Germany has a 19% rate. It is like sales tax except there is no exception for resale.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Taxes are a little higher, but that evens out quickly when your cancer treatment doesn't bankrupt you.

10 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 1

Well for one we're not in a perpetual state of war which greatly helps with limiting spending.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Not from what I've read. The difference is that the taxation process isn't regressive.

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 5

yes, but not much: instead, they actually tax the really rich people/ coorporations

10 years ago | Likes 21 Dislikes 14

Germany taxes corporations much less than US. Same with nordic countries.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Coorperations are hardly taxed anymore compared to the 80s.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

That 19% VAT (Mehrwertsteuer) hits everybody who buys stuff. The less you earn, the harder it hits you.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

not spending billions on military adventures and not having the OECD countries' highest rate of incarceration helps a bunch.

10 years ago | Likes 49 Dislikes 9

It may be "billions" but it's less than 5% of GDP. http://www.supportingevidence.com/Government/Def_HHS_Percent_GDP.html

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Germany (and most other non-US NATO countries) don't even strike 2%, though - and that adds up.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

thats a lot of money that could go into welfare instead.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

Not everybody can go to University and study what he wants! (Abitur, Numerus Clausus,...)

10 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 3

This! My husband failed out of Gymnasium (bc of English & latin) was wasn't eligible for Germany Uni. td:lr he went to US and paid full 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Tuition and earn BS and MS in Electrical Eng. He's smart but germany education system held him back. Free education not blank for everyone.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Even if you don't get an Abitur you are able to study with a Fachabitur oder a Meisterbrief.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Of course not. But everyone should have the opportunity.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

That´s your own fault, making Abitur is totally free, it´s up to you to pass the tests.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Can't get Abitur if you are'nt on Gymnasium..

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Sure you can. Adult education courses; you can get Fachabitur, which only lets you study some subjects; or you can learn a trade and study

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Also u can just join a gymnasium after 10th class... no one stops you from doing it, it's free as in beer

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

But everybody has the chance to study.

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

Der Welt braucht Arbeiter.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

*Die Welt braucht Arbeiter (Artikel are hard to learn)

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Ah, thank you.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

The German language is so weird. Trains are male (der Zug), the world is female (die Welt), children are neutral (das Kind). Fun times!

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

To confuse the child predators .

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Abitur isn't the only way to uni anymore, and FHs often don't have or have significantly lower NC. Uni's overrated anyway, Meister is better

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I would assume, based on what I know of socialism taught in the US, that you also have crippling unemployment and eat your own babies?

10 years ago | Likes 702 Dislikes 45

Actual depiction of The United States learning to accept socialism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdi3o5M4HRk

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Just like they do in the US.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 3

Also based on tax rates I would say the US is already a Socialist State

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 26

Lol no, I wish

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Nope, based on the tax rates and how they're spent we're an incredibly militaristic nation

10 years ago | Likes 21 Dislikes 0

Single-issue armchair economists will be our undoing. "Taxes! I want the right to be unable to afford healthcare, just keep my taxes low!"

10 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

wait, who told you about the babies? you are not supposed to know about the babies. *breaks down your door* YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW!!!!

10 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

Yup, that's why the rate of birth is so low!

10 years ago | Likes 514 Dislikes 2

If you guys don't start popping out babies, your system is going to crash. That's why it's good that youre accepting migrants!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That's an ingenious idea. I'm glad my public education taught me something. Thanks!

10 years ago | Likes 48 Dislikes 0

it all started with a modest proposal

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

China could learn a thing or two after their attempts at low birth rates...

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

The fools don't realize that sacrificing a newborn to the demons is an easy way to reach your goals.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And even better way is to sacrifice thousands of them.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

There's a difference between socialism and communism.

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 4

One of my favourite Barry Crimmins jokes: "'Socialism is bad, I learned that in public school.' Public school is socialism!"

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Well, I've got a Modest Proposal for you...

10 years ago | Likes 32 Dislikes 1

Weeeell......?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

This deserves way more upvotes

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Brilliant, but I'm guessing only you and I and the other upvoters get it.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

that's called Kinder Surprise!

10 years ago | Likes 174 Dislikes 0

And that's why you're today's MWP. Fuck you.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

upvoting because good lord.

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

thank you :)

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

my sides

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

If people want to see a demographic of a socialized system within the US just talk to anyone who is AD military, it is in most ways a 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

2/2 a socialized system you live in. There is good and bad equally within that lifestyle.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

You are right of course. But it is critically important to understand that it's technically not "free". It's paid for by the employed.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Everybody knows this. Everyone.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I wish more people understood this. It drove me insane trying to explain it to people while I was in the army.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Yep a place where no one has air conditioning, dryers, few people can afford a car, incomes are 40% less than the US and Goods 40% higher

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 35

gosh, what a bs! I don't know anyone who would like to have a car but doesn't own one.in fact: most families have two cars

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That's just pure Bs. Food is cheap in Germany and cars are affordable. I'm not saying it's a necessity due to good public transportation.1/2

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Most people I know own a car even though they don't really need it. Taxes are higher, but: healtchcare, education, good infrastructure. 2/2

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

The problem here is that about of half of america is so indoctrinated against "european style socialism" they basically have their own 1

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

facts and reality that they beleive, and breaking through that is so. incredibly. difficult. Its frightening. 2

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

It's easier to fool somebody than it is to convince them they've been fooled.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Air conditioners - because it's not hot. Dryers - not a big thing in Europe, we hang our laundry. Cars - no need for many, except 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 28 Dislikes 0

Plus, the german public transportation system is very, very good. If you live in a city, there is often no reason for you to own a car.

10 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0

it's 809/1000 vs 588/1000 ownership rate (hardly no one) and those that do, they own BMWs, Audis and Mercedes- hardly cheap cars

10 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 1

And comparative BMW, Audi and Mercedes models are much cheaper in the states than in Germany

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 7

No, they drive under-powered VWs and Opels with dirty, little diesel engines that can't meet North American emission and safety standards

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 9

Honey, I think you should just let it go. If it takes another western country living in imagined squalor and hardship for you to feel good1

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Do you genuinely believe that? Because as a European living in North American, my first hand experience is that that's not true

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Can confirm, they eat their children. Source:

10 years ago | Likes 87 Dislikes 0

A Kinder Kebap is simply a smaller portion Kebap, made for Children.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

P.S. I am aware that you are joking, just wanted to point that out ;)

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You know your country's in trouble when child meat is cheaper than chicken.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

the taste is similar though, or so i heard

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

it says "chicken kebab" and "kids kebab"

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 3

"Kid" as in baby goat?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

no, as in children

10 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

You get an upvote

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

no - like adults pay 2,50 - and kids pay less, only 1,10.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Actually, a Kinder Döner is significantly smaller and thus cheaper

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

And you get an upvote

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Fiscal conservatism is a big reason for Germanys austerity. Unfortunately the GOP has a hard time grasping what fiscal conservatism means.

10 years ago | Likes 70 Dislikes 15

Which is funny cuz thats why like half the depublicans are republicans because of fiscal reaponsibility...and less taxes

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 5

If you think that conservatives associate themselves with the establishment you are not paying attention

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

As a fiscal conservative, this is true.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

That's because true conservatives are very rare in the US: https://sweettalkconversation.com/2014/06/02/the-limits-of-our-dreams/

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

As someone who is fiscally conservative, I agree with you. The GOP has definitely lost what it means.

10 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 2

The GOP has lost any relation to what their platform stood for they are the Theocratic Party now

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 3

Which is why I think people have a hard time supporting their candidates. They're completely out of touch.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Then you have liberals and Bernie EVERYTHING IS FREE!

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 22

No. Nothing is free, but everyone should pay for things everyone needs. You pay for roads you don't drive on, don't you?

10 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 1

Hence gas in Norway is 3x the price it is in the US. 2

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Among other reasons, yes. And?

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

But the top 1% can't pay for it all either. It has to be an across the board thing. Europe has the VAT that goes in the final price. 1

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That goes beyond just the GOP. The budgeting in the US is in my opinion borderline criminal

10 years ago | Likes 34 Dislikes 1

You have to spend money on this. You can only take this much tax. You are not allowed to borrow money. We hope you fail.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Uh, thanks?

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Borderline? You're way too generous.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Yeah, it was a little unfair for me just to point out the GOP, but only 140 characters ya know.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

As a conservative, it is fair. They have done nothing to stem the tide of unsupportable debt.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yes!

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Negative form of American Exceptionalism. "That won't work here because America is ." The scale thing 1/

10 years ago | Likes 301 Dislikes 42

"FREE HEALTHCARE ISNT FREE!!!1!!!" Someone in the cpmments.. Every Fucking Time.

10 years ago | Likes 40 Dislikes 6

It's true tho. Most Germans are taxed at ~50% thru various taxes. What's the dif if you pay it to the gov't or to hospitals tho? I dont know

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It wouldn't be a discussion of the merits of socialism without some conservato be/libertarian getting pedantic about the word "free".

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

It's worth pointing out that nothing is free, because there are people stupid enough to believe otherwise.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Well it is if you repeal the 14th amendment it can be.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

HUUUUGE?

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Europe is white. USA has blacks & latinos, so socialism wouldn't work. Wait, that sounds racist...I meant "homogeneous" and "multicultural"!

10 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

We already are one of the most socialistic countries in the world and slowly going bankrupt because of it. You've heard of FICA right?

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Payroll tax that funds Medicare (far more efficient than private ins) & SocSecurity which Americans by 71%-21% margin say is worth the cost?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

The US govt is the biggest insurance backer of medical cost -which is why it is so expensive. SS is a pot being exploited, not orignl intent

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Countries w stronger government regulation of Pharma/ins and broader govt coverage (single payer) have lower per capita health costs vs USA

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

There, that's better. Totally non-racist way to argue against stuff that works in dozens of other democratic countries!

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

The same argument goes for "It works there so it will work here."

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 14

What about "This works there, here's the economics and social science why it works there, it also says it should work here."?

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Not really. Socialised health care has been demonstrated to work in every place where it's been tried. It's not just a one off.

10 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 4

Lol

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 3

really bugs me. "We can't implement Canadian style healthcare because we're 10 times bigger." Eh? That means you have 10 times the 2/

10 years ago | Likes 201 Dislikes 21

taxpayers to pay for 10 times the patients. "Sure Denmark can spend X on universal education, but we have Y times the population!" Argh. 3/3

10 years ago | Likes 192 Dislikes 19

I always thought that referred to dif cultures having dif lifestyles, needs and priorties so how money and votes are spent differs greatly.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

My least favorite is when they invoke race, as if that somehow makes a difference. e.g. "the USA is a far more diverse nation..."

10 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 2

Yeah, and then they classify European countries automatically as 'homogenous'. Which is ignorant for so many reasons and means nothing...

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 3

The ligistics of government running a single system for 300 million is nuts. They can't even get the VA working right.

10 years ago | Likes 75 Dislikes 16

The logistics of running a single system for 300m people are no different than the logistics of 4 systems for 80m, plus 1 manager.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 5

No the logistics for running the 4 is worse. But I agree with the point you are making.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Then each individual state should do it for the people who live there

10 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 3

What about states that can't afford it? I live in Alabama and we are hundreds of millions in the red. Plus theres a lot of poor people here.

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

"That won't work here because America is ."

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

They can't run the VA right because the VA is not properly funded, not because it can't be done.

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

The government already covers 60% of the country through medicare and medicaid. Or you could split the U.S. into zones and split it up.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Maybe stop sending people to war?

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Or being upfront and honest about the true cost of it. Separate line item on your annual tax bill for each war, to remain until the last 1/

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

But it wouldn't be a single system. This is why you have those states you get such a hard-on for!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And then it would be 50 different systems. People then flooding one state with the "best" system.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Saying something "is nuts" isn't really saying anything. What exactly would the problems be, and how do you know for sure?

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I worked in government for 10 years. Saying "is nuts" is shorthand for "it's really incredibly complicated to manage a program that size"

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

qick question I read VA serveral times here on imgur and could figured out what it mean. what does it stand for?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Veterans Affairs

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Except the VA got massively defunded. Hard to run an organization well when you don't have money to run it.

10 years ago | Likes 42 Dislikes 3

Yeah, thanks Obama! (sarcasm)

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 2

As someone who worked for HHS, it's all politics. They defund it to make it fail so they can give a speech about how shitty it is...

10 years ago | Likes 31 Dislikes 2

And about how they're working to kill this ineffective program to save The American Taxpayers money. –_–

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I've always felt the main issue is Americas spendings on the military. Reduce that, improve mental health for Mili+police = good start.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

A big part is also the wasteful way they spend. The US spends twice per capita on healthcare as Canada, for arguably the same level of 1/

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

quality. I'd say same mean, but lower median (ie. the rich in the US raise the average a lot). Just closing that gap would be $550B/yr of 2/

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Also, public programmes that teaches good parenting, and what to avoid doing as a parent. Then you just need free tuition and you're all set

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

surely economies of scale make socialism easier with more people?

10 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 2

I wouldn't necessarily think so. It could, but there's also more bureaucracy with a bigger system which could have the opposite effect

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Bureaucracy should scale linearly at worst. If it isn't you are doing something terribly wrong irrespective of system.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Ask China

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

No way, it's harder. You need more production and more area to fit the vast number of people. Just think of public transport in NYC

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

What? Cities are vastly more efficient economic engines. And the denser the city the more efficient. NYC is the perfect example of that.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I thought the same, but someone pointed out that diseconomics of scale is also a thing. Hard to determine where the optimum is, though.

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

While it is true, you can always apply segmentation. Perhaps you could consider dividing USA into states.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I just don't want to be taxed 40% to pay for someone's rent when they turn down a job offer.

10 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 17

You do understand that higher tax brackets only tax the money earned passed the barrier. So 10% up to 50k, 20% on everything up to 100k

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Thanks for proving my point? A progressively increasing rate applies the rate once you eclipse its barrier. It's a simple principal.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

If anything, only the extremely wealthy, say 300k and up would be charged the forty, and only on money earned passed that Mark

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

In Germany, only income past 250 thousand Euros is taxed at 45%, the top tax rate.

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

Ah, so the next lowest rate is taxed from 50k up. That said, due to how graduated tax rates work, the effective rate at 50 thousand is 25%.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

That's just semantics. The tax rate is 40%, when referring to tax % I'm not going to respond with the effective tax rate

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

I hate to break this to you, but you're already probably taxed pretty close to that. Add up all of your taxes. Income, sales, gas, vice, etc

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Hyper-expensive health care and education is just privatized taxation.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Minus the system where the rich contribute more because they can afford to contribute more, so the heavy bills fall on the poor instead

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You are so ignorant it's funny.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

If you don't give them money they will start jacking cars or selling meth to get by so you are going to end up paying for the loser anyway.

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

The best argument against it for sure

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And you'd have to subsidize a prison system/healthcare system to keep the homeless off the streets.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Or more likely just becoming trapped in homelessness. And it is a trap. People who could be super productive members of society are in 1/

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

there and there is nothing in their own power they can do to get out. Someone might think they are super tough and resourceful and they 2/

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

could fight their way out, well to that person, I got news for you: you become homeless you are fucked. 3/3

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

At least in the social Democrat system potential criminals are pacified enough to not commit crimes for money.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Also I imagine there is a social stigma for living off welfare that deters most people in society.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Speaking as a Finn, the stigma here exists mostly in the minds of people who weren't brought up in those conditions. I was raised in (1/?)

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

People like to work, to feel they are contributing to society somehow. We're hardwired for it.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Also speaking of taxes, most of your income already goes to the military or the war on drugs. Vary little goes to healthcare or education

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Now for the real question, how much are you taxed annually

10 years ago | Likes 59 Dislikes 15

You pay around 25000 € taxes per year, if you earn 60000 € per year. So around 42 % taxes.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

25000, that would have to be taxes ( 13500 ) AND social security ( 11000 )

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Up to 8K is 0%, then it starts at 14% and goes up to 42% at 53K and tops out at 45% at 254K. But it has a nice system, as you pay taxes 1/?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

only for each block. Meaning your first 8K are always free, e.g. you earn 9K so you only pay 140 taxes, because the first 8K are at 0% 2/?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

and the last 1K are taxed at 14%.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

It builds up gradually from 14%. It's 42 if your earn more than 96k annually. 45 on everything above 300k and that's the highest it can go.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Wow, it's really Awsome to see all this civil, fact backed discussion, great job imgurians !

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

it really depends on how much you earn, if you are self employed or not and a bunch of other factors

10 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 0

Also, you don't have to pay any taxes on your first 8.472 € (9.5k $) And it get's higher for every child you have.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Looks similar to 1950s rates in the U.S.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Is that the real question? US is taxed in the middle, but Healthcare and Education will bankrupt people. Germany is tax higher, but 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 31 Dislikes 3

those things are free, so more people do it. Your tax rate doesn't equal the success of your country.

10 years ago | Likes 30 Dislikes 4

If you're going to be spending money anyway, what does it matter? And if you don't get sick? You pay for roads you don't drive on, right?

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

in fact: i pay for roads i don't use.but thousand other it. and if i need to drive one of the street: it'll be there,i don't have to walk 1

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

through the desert. same for illness. for god's sake: i hope I'll never get cancer, but if i get: i will still have my job,and the 2

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

treatment i will need, without getting in debt.i don't have to worry about money. no matter what happen:i don't have to worry about money

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Exactly. And this would be true for everyone. Everyone wins, everyone is happy.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

This is simply better for everyone. For some it's better than for others, but overall, the improvements are still felt.

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Depends on how much you earn. Poor people barely pay anything, while the rich pay up to 42%. Most employees pay like 25% to 30% (1/2)

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

except you don't get charged 42% on EVERY dollar you earn. you get charged like (example) 0% on 8k, then on your 8,001th dollar you get --

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

-- get charged 14%, etc etc, on your $58,001th dollar you get charged 42%. so if you make $58,001 you get charged 42% tax on ONE dollar, &--

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

--& still less % on the dollars made before that. you're not taxed 42% of $58,001. Does that make sense?

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

whoa, that's really interesting. I feel like that's a really smart way to do it though. Doesn't screw people that barely go over.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

If you have kids you also need to pay less. But the health insurence isn't payd with the taxes, its seperate and 15% of your income. (2/2)

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

14%-42% is a wildly huge difference...but as long as you can afford to live and play on what's left, it can't be too bad.

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 2

[deleted]

[deleted]

10 years ago (deleted Dec 8, 2022 3:58 PM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

I'd say you make it up in free healthcare. It seems cancer can bankrupt you in the states

10 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 2

Nah I got good insurance that covers that, for less

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

Nice for you

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Does it give you free tuition to universities too? 'Cause the taxes gives that as well.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

42% tax if you make over ~58,000 USD?!

10 years ago | Likes 21 Dislikes 3

Not really, I'm over 58k and it ends up being low 30%ish

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Is that incredulity at it being high or low? Considering many things are taken care of, most of the rest is true spending money.

10 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 3

No its not. Yes education is taken care of, so is healthcare but Rent, utilities, car payment, food etc. aren't.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

True, but housing (even in urban areas) is much cheaper. Cars are smaller and often cheaper, and besides, the 42% is only a certain bracket

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I think high, but who knows. I know If someone in the state of Missouri in America makes ~ $120,000 they would be taxed roughly 1/2

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

28% with state and federal tax. That is a non maried person, with no dependents, before tax refund which depends on your deductions 2/2

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Plus higher healthcare costs, extra investments in pension etc. Still, with such high income it makes more sense to live in US.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yeah but consider what percentage of your income these other costs make up anyway. A lot of my friends spend 30-50% just on student loans.

10 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 2

What school did your friends go to, Hogwarts?

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

Hogwarts is free.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Private universities are expensive. Mine was $45k/year just for tuition, not including housing, books, food, etc.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

In the US you legally don't have to pay more than 10%. Takes longer to pay off but still.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Really? Can I have link with that? It is an interesting piece of information.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That's the marginal rate, you're not paying 42% of the whole $58k.

10 years ago | Likes 30 Dislikes 2

Please explain

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

42% is the marginal tax rate. It's what you pay on the next dollar after $58k.

10 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Meaning mathematically you can't make less money when you get a raise that bumps you up a tax bracket.

10 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Same as us taxes, money over x amount is taxed at y%, then money over the next increment is taxed at k%

10 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0