32323 pts · September 20, 2015
Religious people claim that morality cannot exist without religion. As an atheist I disagree. I believe we can establish value structure for a society without any religious absolute truths. But this requires first that _everything_ needs to be open for a debate. Values are just opinions. Core values in a society are those that most agree on
Yes they are. Unless your value structure is dictated by some higher power. At which point it becomes a battle of religions (like it is in many parts of the world). The thing is. Most people in the west would and will agree most basic western core values (like right to exist and not to kill, or steal, etc).
Every value is. Unless you believe in some higher power that forces your values. And don’t be so quick to judge. Unless you want to sound and act like those religious zealots. (…Also, I’m pretty sure that most people would agree that every person has right to exist, but that’s not the point).
No. I’m wrong, you’re wrong. We’re all wrong. That’s why we need to be open for debate and be always ready to meet in the middle. There is no absolute rights in values (i.e. Opinions)
Back when Obama was President I was called a communist in this forum for having Nordic-left-leaning views. Nowadays I’m ”far right” :)
It used to be (around when Obama was President). Not anymore. Nowadays even the Nordic extreme Left is taking notes from the US
Empty catchphrases. Those just make polarization worse. You should always try to find the middle ground. You have a lot more common in there than you think
The problem in the right is self-evident. It’s the problem in the left people fail to see what drives the polarization. People forget that ”your values” are just opinions that should be open for debate. But if you lift your values over all debate you’re no better than religious zealot. (And yes, I mean _all_ values should be open for debate).
I would argue that it’s the polarization itself what is the greatest threat. I find it hard to believe that people in western civilization could actually have so different core views that next civil war is justifiable.
Looking from afar I’ve never seen US so divided. There’s the nationalist-religious Right-wing nuts who keep burning the books; And the Righteous Left, who keep their ideology on top of the democracy which at this point is no better than a religion (”Mission-democracy” we call it here, because they are on a holy mission). Where are all the sane people in the middle?!
Fair enough. But if not the two, what would be your suggestion for replacing capitalism as an economic system.
Sorry. You’re right. What I was meant to say is ”Proven to be the best from all alternatives…”
6/ Communism and planned economy are not the solutions you want to aim for
5/ So, until we come up better economic model, you should not attack the primary force making west way ahead of any society in history…
4/ This show especially as you compare them to eastern europe countries. And compare how capitalism lifted northern europe way above them
3/ …examples on such societies where mixing both cap and soc seem to create happier people in general
2/ …cannot make it on their own (for any reason). But socialism needs the money created by capitalism first. Northern europe are prime…
1/Capitalism is an economic model. Its best we have. There is no alternative. Socialism is requires on top to to take care of people who…
Was talking about education system. Also you cannot blame my education for you not providing proper arguments
In case you didnt already figure it out. Im not talking about US health care or education systems.
”Tell that to x” painting x as a victim is appealing to emotion instead of providing rational argument
That is not what whataboutism is.
But I would not say people should go to poverty if health fails. Thats why it should be publicly availble for all like it is in this country
No, you really did not explain how racism, borders and religion are interlocked with capitalism. You also didnt try to apply it to socialism
…but what I dont understand is how you think this is relevant to capitalism (which is the topic).
No, I actually know quite a lot about european history. Thanks to our public education system which ALSO is among the best in the world…
I would say so. Also international study (Global Burden of disease) say our health care system is among best in the world
I dont think you do as you keep blaming Capitalism. Also like said, we have tax paid health care system (”free”) in place in this country.
…Instead you’re obviously blinded with your emotions against republican party and then retort to ad hominems.
You fail to argue how they are connected, and you fail to argue against how I showed your logic makes no sense when applied elsewhere
Religious people claim that morality cannot exist without religion. As an atheist I disagree. I believe we can establish value structure for a society without any religious absolute truths. But this requires first that _everything_ needs to be open for a debate. Values are just opinions. Core values in a society are those that most agree on
Yes they are. Unless your value structure is dictated by some higher power. At which point it becomes a battle of religions (like it is in many parts of the world). The thing is. Most people in the west would and will agree most basic western core values (like right to exist and not to kill, or steal, etc).
Every value is. Unless you believe in some higher power that forces your values. And don’t be so quick to judge. Unless you want to sound and act like those religious zealots. (…Also, I’m pretty sure that most people would agree that every person has right to exist, but that’s not the point).
No. I’m wrong, you’re wrong. We’re all wrong. That’s why we need to be open for debate and be always ready to meet in the middle. There is no absolute rights in values (i.e. Opinions)
Back when Obama was President I was called a communist in this forum for having Nordic-left-leaning views. Nowadays I’m ”far right” :)
It used to be (around when Obama was President). Not anymore. Nowadays even the Nordic extreme Left is taking notes from the US
Empty catchphrases. Those just make polarization worse. You should always try to find the middle ground. You have a lot more common in there than you think
The problem in the right is self-evident. It’s the problem in the left people fail to see what drives the polarization. People forget that ”your values” are just opinions that should be open for debate. But if you lift your values over all debate you’re no better than religious zealot. (And yes, I mean _all_ values should be open for debate).
I would argue that it’s the polarization itself what is the greatest threat. I find it hard to believe that people in western civilization could actually have so different core views that next civil war is justifiable.
Looking from afar I’ve never seen US so divided. There’s the nationalist-religious Right-wing nuts who keep burning the books; And the Righteous Left, who keep their ideology on top of the democracy which at this point is no better than a religion (”Mission-democracy” we call it here, because they are on a holy mission). Where are all the sane people in the middle?!
Fair enough. But if not the two, what would be your suggestion for replacing capitalism as an economic system.
Sorry. You’re right. What I was meant to say is ”Proven to be the best from all alternatives…”
6/ Communism and planned economy are not the solutions you want to aim for
5/ So, until we come up better economic model, you should not attack the primary force making west way ahead of any society in history…
4/ This show especially as you compare them to eastern europe countries. And compare how capitalism lifted northern europe way above them
3/ …examples on such societies where mixing both cap and soc seem to create happier people in general
2/ …cannot make it on their own (for any reason). But socialism needs the money created by capitalism first. Northern europe are prime…
1/Capitalism is an economic model. Its best we have. There is no alternative. Socialism is requires on top to to take care of people who…
Was talking about education system. Also you cannot blame my education for you not providing proper arguments
In case you didnt already figure it out. Im not talking about US health care or education systems.
”Tell that to x” painting x as a victim is appealing to emotion instead of providing rational argument
That is not what whataboutism is.
But I would not say people should go to poverty if health fails. Thats why it should be publicly availble for all like it is in this country
No, you really did not explain how racism, borders and religion are interlocked with capitalism. You also didnt try to apply it to socialism
…but what I dont understand is how you think this is relevant to capitalism (which is the topic).
No, I actually know quite a lot about european history. Thanks to our public education system which ALSO is among the best in the world…
I would say so. Also international study (Global Burden of disease) say our health care system is among best in the world
I dont think you do as you keep blaming Capitalism. Also like said, we have tax paid health care system (”free”) in place in this country.
…Instead you’re obviously blinded with your emotions against republican party and then retort to ad hominems.
You fail to argue how they are connected, and you fail to argue against how I showed your logic makes no sense when applied elsewhere