ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
52616
1918
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Let's actually go through and debunk each claim specifically:
1) https://reporter.nih.gov/search/hoBw75PFIkKKVxS6lCvtCA/project-details/10748892
"we will develop a mouse model of XHT that recapitulates clinical hormone therapy for male-to-female transition in humans. We hypothesize that mice and humans share sets of immune-related genes that are impacted by a feminizing hormone regimen, and that mice undergoing XHT will exhibit altered immune responses to a HIV vaccine compared to control male mice"
Or, to translate, they're investigating the impact of a HIV vaccine as it is modulated by HRT.
Goal: "Should this study reveal an immunoregulatory effect of feminizing hormone therapy on HIV vaccine responsiveness in mice, it will provide a new platform for assessing the effects of sex hormones on vaccine responses. Moreover, this animal model could then be used to test various vaccination parameters (adjuvant, dose, interval, etc.) for sex hormone-dependent effects, with the ultimate goal of designing an HIV vaccine that maximizes efficacy but minimizes adverse outcomes"
Better vaccines.
2) "Our long-term goal is to provide the necessary data for evidence-based fertility counseling of transgender men. Clarifying the effects and reversibility of cross-sex T therapy on the reproductive tract could lead to future paradigm shifts in clinical fertility care of transgender men."
https://reporter.nih.gov/project-details/10619517
Obviously they hate this one, it's meant to help transgender men.
3) Now I get lazy because I have a migraine. This study examining breast cancer in transmen, but "Our proposal will gain new insights about breast cancer risk as well as develop new approaches to improve cancer outcome in both the underserved transmasculine community and the cisgender population." Less cancer for everyone, yaaaay!
https://reporter.nih.gov/project-details/10912193
4) https://reporter.nih.gov/search/-NkoAnjCB0uKdDs0r_5qxw/project-details/10944419
"This project will determine the contribution of the gut microbiome to the effects of gender affirming hormone therapy (GAHT) in mice. Our study will provide information on whether GAHT exerts effects on skeletal maturation, and the mechanisms whereby the gut microbiome mediates the skeletal effects of GAHT. The project is important because the skeletal effects of GAHT in humans is a critical medical concern in transgender medicine."
Well of COURSE they hate this one! It could disprove their biggest lie about bone-mass! This one is just checking if the gut bacterial biology impacts hormone treatments. This ultimately helps anyone taking hormone treatments, I'd guess.
5) "This proposal will utilize cutting edge molecular, genetic, and physiological techniques coupled with experiments in both genetic mouse models and human transgender subjects to delineate the specific cell targets and physiological mechanisms by which androgens can impact normal female reproductive hormone secretion and will improve understanding of androgen inhibition of neuroendocrine reproductive dysfunction."
https://reporter.nih.gov/project-details/11000334
This study will *checks notes* potentially identify a target for which ciswomen with high androgen can get fertility treatments. It also helps transmen so I guess into the garbage it goes even if it can help ciswomen!
6) https://reporter.nih.gov/project-details/10891526
"Our studies will be the first to characterize estrogen-mediated mechanisms of inflammation in asthma phenotypes in the male and female lung, contributing to the characterization of sex- and gender-specific factors accounting for inter-individual differences, as well as the effects of feminizing hormone therapy in lung pathobiology. We expect that our studies would serve to develop potential sex- and gender-specific treatments and recommendations for dosage of therapeutic agents to treat and prevent asthma in cis and transgender women."
IT'LL POTENTIALLY HELP TREAT ASTHMA FOR EVERYONE.
"Here, we investigate the mechanisms by which estrogen triggers inflammation in the male and female asthmatic lung. Our findings will determine the molecular basis of hormonal triggers of asthma exacerbations in cis and transgender women and lead to the future development of better personalized therapeutic options for lung disease."
Somethingsomething TRANSMICE
And a complete disgrace of an official government, WHITE HOUSE, webpage.
OneMoreLime
If those red hats could read, they would be just as hateful as they always are... they only have one setting.
aflarge
CallMeMcGyver
They know what they are saying, but everything they say is a lie, not a mistake or confusion, it's a deliberate attempt to deceive. Lies upon lies. Nothing but lies.
SocoFox
At this point it doesn't matter what Dumpindrawers says. His base will take it as gospel no matter how much it can be proven wrong.
He says the stupid shit he says to rile everybody up and draw attention away from the real nefarious shit he's doing.
dewdar
I've seen people commenting "at least now we're not paying for animal cruelty". As if they ever cared and refused to take madication developed thanks to animal testing
hogninja
I’m not trying to troll here, but each one of those specifically uses trans terms in the names and descriptions. Yes, they also help cis folks, but this isn’t “They confused transgender with transgenic,” when the title of the procedure actually says it’s targeting transgender.
SuperFlamingTominoHead
They'll stop busses and trains because that's TRANSportation. They'll stop the economy because it deals with TRANSactions.
Knifesmith
Dude... (and yes, I'm from so. cal. so I use it for everyone regardless...), you joke, but sadly this is already what has been happening. Have any one of a number of the magic "DEI" words in your grant, and POOF! It's been canceled.
Kotose88
janemfausten365
It's almost like transgender people are people first, and should be treated as such, because helping them helps everyone. But I wouldn't expect a fascist Republican to know any of that.
TheFastpaws
We truly live in the dumbest fucking timeline.
MrCheesebiscuit
Just like that mom who got upset when she heard her son was taught about Homo Sapiens at school... It should be Hetero Sapiens!
Rebatu
This is not that much money compared to what Americans use on their projects.
People dont realize how some of these are 5 year projects and contain payrolls for dozens of people that will do the research
Hotjoe1991
Fucking morons
Telemapus
Also, apart from anything else, $8.2 million isn't even down-the-back-of-the-couch money for the Federal Govt. It's "change that I accidentally scooped onto the hall table when I took my keys out of my pocket" money.
merxman
And further that grants for scientific studies, EVEN IF they had no clear or practical end goal, are how we advance knowledge and medicine.
strikt9
How much has been spent on golfing in the last month?
andydicktracymorganfairchild
Some funding is in fact for experiments involving transgender mice, to test the effects of gender affirming care on the efficacy of certain medicines in humans. And that's fine. Do people who have had gender affirming care not deserve treatments for medical conditions? Trump doesn't think certain people deserve access to vaccines and medicines, that's the important story here, and some news outlets apparently whiffed that in favor of reporting what they mistakenly thought was a sensational gaff.
Meowsma
Gender, as used in the term 'transgender' is a human social construct; there is no such thing as a transgender mouse.
andydicktracymorganfairchild
That's a good point, and using it to refer to mice the way trump did further mocks and trivializes transgender people. But the first study on the list does propose to test 'the immune responses of “cis” vs. “trans” mice to a HIV vaccine.' I haven't read the others.
The most important story is that trump wants to defund these programs because they have to do with helping people he doesn't think deserve it, and that story has been lost in the noise about a gaff that didn't happen.
Meowsma
That's an understandable takeaway from the phrasing, and yes, this conversation we're having ultimately matters very little, but 'cis' and 'trans' are prefixes that can be applied to many things, or, if there's not a good word to describe something like "mice who have had their genes altered to mimic being the opposite sex", just left alone to indicate one of the two states; we don't need to assume 'gender' should follow or apply.
andydicktracymorganfairchild
Right, well said. And I didn't mean to sound so dismissive of the importance of the language. Trump was using the word in a demeaning way as always and that is destructive and dangerous. Some reporting and memery that followed the event didn't focus on the distinction you're pointing out, and instead denied there were experiments involving trans mice, which is mistaken and distracts both from your point, and from the fact that those experiments are necessary and denying funding is homicidal.
hyperchondriac
Clarification, if I may: none of those experiments look transgenic, so transgender/transgenic doesn't really seem to be the misunderstanding. All of the experiments appear to be models using sex hormones.
Sex hormones do a lot of things besides just determining sexual phenotype. There's a lot of study on how hormone receptors effect immunology and cancer development, infertility. But they seem to think "hormones only determine if boy or girl". Still sad.
TayoStrum
8.3m is so small I wonder how anyone even bothers about it. That's like 8 miles or road, I wonder how many unnecessary miles of road was build...
Monocular0
It probably cost more money than that digging up this stuff and adding it to the government websites.
SquirrelWithATophat
It probably doesn't matter to most of Trump's supporters, since as Nazi death cultists they are against both being decent people and helping cure illnesses. So complaining about either interpretation checks at least one box on their list of "ways to be an asshole today".
jjp803127001
None of these directly help straight white men so they are all waste in the right's eyes.
Trankia12
Everyone knows that curing cancer gives you autism! /s
Fasrill
Facts and reality have never mattered to them. The only things they care about is having their preconceived notions validated, and being given free reign to lash out in anger and with violence at anything and everything that challenges said notions. You will literally go blue in the face and die of oxygen starvation before you can convince them to change their mind.
SquirrelWithATophat
Again. They are Nazi death cultists. Causing as much suffering and death as possible is their whole goal. Doesn't matter to them who suffers/dies (even if it's themselves or their own loved ones) just as long as there is as much suffering and death as possible. Many of them believe by doing this they can usher in the End of Days and be Raptured up to Heaven just because they say they accept Jesus (despite their own scriptures saying they will burn for what they are doing).
rossonerinho
there's a pretty good chance that there was a republican in the chamber that was turned on when they heard "transgender mice".
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
Some of my best friends are transgender mice.
ScarecrowSticks
xmaneds
is this a Bard? or a Rogue?
parabolic000
it's AI is what it is.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
The shading and lighting seems consistent to me but i'm not smart enough to look for a deeper element as a sign
Fasrill
Well the lack of an artist's signature is generally a good hint.
parabolic000
the belts, buckles, and straps make no sense, nor do the piercings. Tail doesn't look like a mouse's tail. Generic anime-style hair on an otherwise more grounded image. No real sense of the artist's style, very generic. All this felt, IDK, fishy, so I put it through an AI detector and it gave me a 94.something% likelihood of it being AI.
Dolenmorgul
They just read 'trans' and thought transgender, I would say it doesn't look good for public transport but then again which public transport.
brazzy42
And you apparently didn't read at all because it actually IS about "transgender", not "transgenic".
MechKelly
"The fake news losers" sounds like something that a 10 year old would say.
Telemapus
Everyone is so quick to defend the Biden administration's actual resarch, but the original critical post is literally BEGGING THE QUESTION that transgender research in mice is bad.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
It's not bad, though.
Telemapus
Yes, that's what "begging the question" means when it comes to logical fallacies in an argument.
mormonbatman
There's a novel called A Canticle for Leibowitz that provides 3 snapshots of human progress ~500, 1000, and 1500 years after a nuclear war devastates the USA. The bombs were bad but the book posits that the bigger problem was that survivors killed the educated for knowing things they didn't know. This post is about that.
AntaNce
That's a wonderful book. Truly stands the test of time. Published 1959, won the Hugo award in 1961. It's never been out of print.
xmaneds
real-life 20th century history to back that up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
TheObstinateOne
Don't those study costs look kinda.. cheap? Like the labor costs alone for any type of medical research is gonna be high, not to mention the equipment, material cost, and time involved.
EndocrineResearcher
Well, grad students have a $30-35k stipend (and may actually be paid by working as a teaching assistant) and postdocs have a $50-60k salary. These numbers are sometimes higher in cities with the highest cost of living, but regardless academia relies upon cheap labor.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
It's grants, so the scientists doing the work are underpaid.
Nalianna
looks like Felon Musk's team did a search for trans, found transgenic, jumped to conclusions, freaked out about nothing.
brazzy42
No, it looks like imgurians can't read, because the claim that it's about "transgenic" mice is bullshit, and the research in question is very explicitly transgender-related.
Nalianna
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/07/military-images-trump-dei
Nalianna
So, they removes transgenic... then enola gay, then inclusion? and each time, it wasn't even the thing they were looking for? Looks like a pattern.
Nalianna
https://www.taxnotes.com/featured-news/irs-removes-sections-internal-revenue-manual-public-view/2025/01/28/7qnqp
CacklingOctopus
Really sad that this Twitter-tier garbage is on a fucking .gov site.
How in the world did the scheming, power-hungry GOP fail to source a serious candidate for their coup?
This whole administration is an 80s cartoon villain organization. Maybe we should be fighting back with one-liners and post-episode PSAs.
BradM23
Coup? You mean like Kamilla did to Biden? If the Dims wouldn't have targeted their own candidates and then anointing Harris as the nominee without a public vote. Harris was a terrible choice
BaelKor
Do you understand what words mean?
ArsenicTouch
Words are hard.
parabolic000
You either forgot the /s, need to repeat the 4th grade, or are currently having a stroke.
CacklingOctopus
Oh, well, I guess everything is okay then since Harris was a bad choice who didn't win a proper primary. I will now sit quietly as Vladimir Putin's friends further dismantle the strength and capabilities of a world superpower and divide the pieces among themselves.
It is exactly like Biden and Harris. Yes.
nimeton0
Trensgender vs. Transgenic, and they're too dumb to know the difference. So many f*cking idiots in the USA. This administration spewing out misinformation daily, and Fox "news" quickly helping to spread it to the MAGA red hats, who take it as Gospel without fact checking it. Bring the FCC Fairness Doctrine back, please. Reagan got rid of it in the 80's, and it's been all downhill since.
laserfork
They're hitting Ctrl F and canceling anything with the word "trans" in it.
HavelTh3Rock
I mean I didn't even know the word "transgenic" before this post, but I'm also not so stupid to think anything with "trans" in it is "liberal woke garbage".
Zedrapazia
I unfortunately know a guy who'd probably believe that, and I could rip my hair out about trying to explain stuff to him.
MarkRavingMad
You just know they got there by just ctrl-f searching a budget document for the word "Trans" and just started blathering about everything that came up.
Kemi337
They probably used AI to flag "trans" in anything they could find; they are as lazy as they are stupid.
Therealhamandcheesesandwich
The entire population of America is still female by Trump’s own executive order right? So I’m assuming that Trump and all of the men in his administration are just trans masc?
Deathcameawienering
It'll take decades to change the culture of ignorance
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
The only nice thing I can say is that these studies were mostly, or all, targeting cross-sex hormone stuff, "XHT" as some referred to it, so their bigotry was appropriately aimed per their goals of harming cis people in their rush to hurt trans people.
brazzy42
Apparently they're smarter than you, because if you actually read it, it clearly IS transgender-related research.
Rabidgoat
Did you read the part at the end where it stated the ulitimate goal was to improve HIV treatment
Rabidgoat
There is a point where your common sense at pointing out that the study uses words like "gender affirming" or "hormone replacement" ultimately makes this harder for you to understand.
The science they are doing is at the perimeter of human understanding, side note thats how ppl get a doctorate degree, and the science shows that genes are expressed differently and therefore drugs interact differently based on what genes are expressed. check out thalidomide, or dont actually its terrible.
vorodar
Transgenic, transatlantic, transport, transaction. What has Biden done!
CerisCinderwolf
Don't forget about trans fats too!
LitigiousWhelk
DigitalDragon75
'Trans' is as far as their search algorithm had to go before it flagged it, and one of Elongated Muskrat's little Doge Klansmen marked it in the 'Win' column. In Republican eyes, *anything* with Trans in it is bad.
Just wait for a family member have problems with their vehicles 'transmission'. Full on meltdown at the auto shop.
owlcatsanctuary101
They're not dumb. They know. They want a reaction, a distraction, keep everyone on their toes so they can keep doing what they're doing. One outrage after the other with absolute bullshit to keep us busy spewing out counter arguments and facts. Until we are exhausted and all bamboozled into submission.
Lontri
2 conservatives were complaining about non-binary people to me, and somehow they jumped into complaining about kids pretending to be animals in school? I was like bruh, pretending to be an animal isn't a gender thing, this has nothing to do with people being non-binary, what the hell are you guys on about, etc.
I did not dare to say that kids constantly pretending to be animals might just be future furries.
Smoretank
Well. There is a thing going on were kids like preteen age are calling themselves Therians. My neice has gotten waaaaaay into it claiming they were a cat in their past life. Its gotten to the point she meow/hisses at people in school, public. Even change her name and wear cat tails. Poor kid is going through a rough divorce and her dad is a maga ass. We think it's her pushing boundaries. But. Big but it is a huge deal in her age group. So much so kids are bullying nontherians. She is 13.
Kemi337
A) Yes kids have imaginations and sure, whatever. They're kids.
B) They had some bullshit going around a few years back about there being litterboxes for these children that "identified as animals". Someone directly brought this up in conversation with me, I simply asked them "If this was true why are there not photos of these things all over the internet? The majority of high schoolers have cell phones now - there is no way this could exist without photo evidence. Sounds made up to me."
SomeDetroitGuy
None of these are "transgender animal experiments" because there's no such thing as a transgender animal.
SaintSleepyWeasel
Almost all amphibians can change their gender "at will" based on populations. This is especially prevalent in frogs. I'm not sure if that counters what you were saying, or supports it?
Aspernari
Generally speaking, you should be correct in what you say before you bother saying it. I'm dismayed people are upvoting you...
Clownfish, people. Fucking Clownfish. Just for starters.
BradM23
There is another one, the Kobudai. If the breeding male dies, than the largest female will switch to male.
Aspernari
There are multiple species that change their sex, or change their roles from what the typically does to what the female typically does (and vice versa). But people are going to just beat the drum that "gender is a social construct", and then move the goalpost of the conversation.
Also, humans are animals, if we're just going to do the nitpicking thing.
And then there are others that are going to say animals can't understand the concept of gender, so can't possibly be transgender...Etc.*shrug*
nerdyvet
TransGENDER, as a term, is difficult to apply to any non human animal because Gender, as used in the context of the term transgender, is a Human Social Construct. We can't accurately apply it to other animals without understanding their own social constructs around Biological sex and its presentations.
Aspernari
And while it's DIFFICULT to apply, it's not impossible to apply. Humanity just decides to declare it a _HUMAN_ social construct, instead of a social construct as if there's no social structure anywhere else in the animal kingdom.
But at least you offer enough nuance to suppose it _may_ apply, which is better than the absolutists that say it cannot, does not, and never will apply.
mafiacarstarter
Until the animals chime in with their take on gender, it cannot, does not, and never will apply.
Aspernari
So go watch some of the male and female examples of species that go through transitions into sexes other than what they were at birth, and how their role changes along with it. Despite the arugments that happen here, there are academic and scientific studies of sex and gender roles in non-human animals. I suppose they COULD be researching a thing that doesn't exist, but I like to think most research trends toward useful work.
nerdyvet
We have a very limited view of how other species view any of their social constructs. I am not saying that they don't **exist**. I'm saying the human-definitions intrinsically require the human lens. I'm sure such analyses DO exist for non-human species, but since we cannot directly communicate these concepts with the species in question, it's still inherently flawed. And definitely irrelevant to the OP
LookingLikeASnack
Clownfish would be transitioning their sex, not becoming transgender. Gender is a social construct, in order for an animal to be (arguably) transgender they'd have to display characteristics of one sex while being another. For example, some female lions grow manes. This is still not considered "transgender" though as animals aren't seen as being capable of comprehending gender as a social construct.
BradM23
Gender and sex were interchangeable until recently. Which is why most ppl still use gender when referring to one's sex.
LookingLikeASnack
That does not change the fact that animals have never been referred to as transgender in scientific terms.
Aspernari
You've redefined transgender to suit your talking points. Let's go back and re-redefine transgender to what the word actually means:
Transgender, adjective:
: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person was identified as having at birth
especially : of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity is opposite the sex the person was identified as having at birth
Aspernari
Admittedly, the dictionary definition does specify PERSON, but I argue that if an entity transitions between sex states, and takes on the behavior of the sex not assigned at birth, then... Well. If a post-op, HRT-treated person is the gender they've transitioned to, that's also true of animals that don't need to go through such an ordeal.
LookingLikeASnack
...........
Buddy....
Both of those definitions have "a person" right at the forefront....
Aspernari
Yes, and I acknowledged that. Well done, bravo, you cracked the case.
But at least maybe you've reset your definition of the word, rather than continuing on with the one you created in your own head.
SquirrelWithATophat
Actually, there's at least one species of fish with the ability to change it's sex/gender back and forth as needed.
It would be more accurate to say that nobody is performing sex change operations on lab animals.
BradM23
There's around 500 species of fish that can their sex.
DukeDarkwood
Which is "at least one".
Telemapus
There are lots of species of lots of animals that change sex during their lifetimes. There are even insects that periodically pretend to be male or female to dissuade sexual competition.
Affray
Some bugs want to be a dad so bad they'll take a dick to make sure it happens.
Telemapus
Dude, honeybee drones want to be dads so bad they will penetrate a "virgin queen" (beekeeping term) in midflight and then explode OFF their own dicks with a popping noise loud enough that humans can hear it.
Affray
I've been that horny before. I get it.
FurbySavant
I think what OP means is that there are no transgender animals bc animals don't have a gender; they have sexes. They can be transsexual, shifting between different physical expressions of sexual organs, but gender is a human social thing separate from, though related to, physical expression. Gender ≠ Sex.
ViviAdorkable
Humans love inventing boxes to restrsin ourselves with, instead of just yknow... being alive and doing whatever non-violent thing makes us happy.
We literally associated a colour which occurs in nature, with men then reversed it years later because women started using it, its ridiculous and funny how many of our own problems we cause.
FurbySavant
I really think we cause nearly 100% of our own problems. We're a very weird animal.
nerdyvet
See some other comments below in the chain. "Gender", as used in this context, is a human social construct, NOT equivalent to biological sex. So we can't really apply it to another species without understanding THEIR social constructs on the topic.
ViviAdorkable
I think most animals probably just do what they want without so much concern for expectations and fitting in as we place on those things.
WhatNumberPlease
So if we can blame Biden for everything that happened while he was president, we can do that same for Trump right? Right?
blockberd
Oh you sweet summer child. Thst's not how it works (for MAGAs and the GOP)... :(
Ghlargh
No, all bad things are because of Biden and Obama, any negative effects of the tariffs are their fault, obviously... (/s)
Carochio
Yes
intashu
Thanks Obama!
tzahtman
ManguPixel
Trump tells you to look out the window while he shits on the table and walks out the room. Biden walks into the room and everyone is appalled when they see the massive shit he left on the table.
MFive15
Generous of you to assume there will be a president after trump
AVaguelyFamiliarUsername
Sure... but the cultists don't care.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
You can blame him for most of the bad stuff that happened during Biden too, and you'll be right.
beevos
Wow Thanks Biden. My wife used to be faithful
ForCryingOutLoud
Of course not! Biden's bad financial decisions just happened to take an effect the same exact moment this orange clown rolled in tariffs!
masterpainimeanbetty1
NOTHING BAD HAPPENED AT ALL WHILE MOST HOLY TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT-KING
OJester
Yes. It's literally that simple. Policies and executive orders and judicial rulings affect the governments in which they occur which in turn affect their populace. Sometimes it takes time for the effects to be fully felt, sometimes enforcement is near instantaneous.
We don't have to let some of those things affect us as much though, not everything a government does is necessarily right for the people. We don't have to fight hard, but every bit of resistance helps, no matter what form.
johnxbear
In 30 years people will be connecting the dots between problems of the time and trump like we do with Reagan today.
Telemapus
*3 years
SquirrelWithATophat
People are already doing that in real time. It's just that most people are too apathetic to listen or do anything about. It won't be until the next generation is reeling from all the ramifications and blaming the generations of today for not doing enough to stop Trump that more people will finally start listening. But even then it will mostly be in the capacity of saying, "hindsight is 20/20. We had no idea it would cause all these problems at the time, so don't blame us."
Comet260
WHY is apathy an American tradition? WHY?! It drives me fucking crazy!
SquirrelWithATophat
Because that is a trait that was deliberately instilled in the lower classes in America. Apathetic workers are less likely to rise up against the elite. And in the instances where they DO rise up, they tend to do an extremely half assed job of it, meaning the elites don't have to do much to appease them. Like how one of these recent "big" protests where nobody was supposed to work or shop took place on a WEEKEND, where most of the participants wouldn't have been doing either anyways.
Syovere
Also, often it's not so much "apathy" as "exhaustion". The working poor are constantly teetering on desperation, one hospital visit away from financial disaster. Tons of people have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet, even with one or more being full-time.
Another thing that's by design; body and mind require rest. So if you keep people on the brink, their bodies will force them to rest and they can't read up on all the ways you're fucking them.