sadurdaynight
42153
850
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Health insurance companies have talked a lot of companies into buying into the concept of a high deductible health savings account. Basically, you get a high deductible insurance plan, but it has a health savings account bolted on that (usually) you're employer will match savings into with you.
The idea was that, sure, you'll have a higher deductible. But, you got this new spiffy health savings account that gets money dumped into before taxes, AND the money never expires! (unlike an FSA), AND (omg!) you can INVEST that money, so it's not just sitting around getting all dusty and losing value!
Isn't that fantastic?! It's like a 401k plan.. for healthcare!
"Annnnddd... it's gone."
What do you mean the value of my Health Savings Account is jack squat now? Oh, right. I had it invested in an index fund. And the president just tanked the stock market. And the market rebounded one day, and now it's tanking again.
Great... just... f'ing great.
I've got some medical procedures coming up.
So, now I have to decide to either cash-out some of the HSA while the fund it's invested in is down (which means I take a loss in value). Or, just let it ride this idiot's market manipulation out and pay out-of-pocket.
Great. Perfect. I didn't even think about the money in the HSA when all this happened. Didn't think about medical things until just recently. Now I'm kicking myself for dumping HSA money into stock market instead of just letting it camp in a money market fund.
Feel like a dumb ass.
SJBSavageInk
Really glad I didn't invest mine yet. I don't even want to look at my 401k though. Just a couple months ago it was over 100% of target goal =_=
TakeAChillPill16
What the heck kind of fund did you have your HSA money invested in? Because the market is down 6.6% YTD right now, going off the Dow Jones. So, if you had $10,000 on Jan.1, and lost 6.6%, you'd have $9,340. Which is less, but not a catastrophic loss.
Revicus
I was feeling foolish for not having my HSA invested, and that may still be the case, but I am glad at least this is not the time I chose to start. My 401k's gotten the shit kicked out of it though.
coffeeandprozac
Welp, hopefully, I can limp my gallbladder along for the next 4 years...
jimskeeter
You don’t understand how to work it. You keep the deductible amount in cash. Only invest the rest. Don’t be too aggressive. Over the long haul, you’ll be much further ahead
tocfanke4
Our company offers a High Deductible with HSA, but got rid of the modest company contribution (it was never a match, like 30 dollars a pay period, then 7, then nothing).
ActuallyAPirate
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1NHFjdmQyYzNwbmR2bWZkZzVzdWh3cGNraGhxbDh5aW5yNG8xemd1MyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/xFnM1NeZZtvvUlVV5E/200w.webp
Roqinn
You know something? I had never reached my deductible for my healthcare, so I always thought that was a good thing. I reached it in early March from just a couple of procedures and now I'm stuck paying 20% of all procedures as well as the copay to even see the doc. This sucks!!
makesense
Or you don't bother investing much if any of your HSA. If you haven't volunteered to invest it, the value is what you and your employer have placed in it.
freemab
You lose money to inflation every year unless you put in something interest bearing.
RUFingKiddingMe
If you cash out then you'll lose the money. Hang on to it and you'll thank yourself later.
Enoan
What sort of hellish nightmare is having healthcare stocks
sweethome
My first thought too
VodkaReindeer
Dumb move to put it in stocks, dumber move to try to time the market by taking it out now.
xFacelessManx
Always think about having to meet expected medical bills or a year’s worth of deductibles if you can’t do that outside the HSA. This amount, or close to it, should be in cash or a conservative investment. The rest can be growth oriented. This is true for all investments, have a route to some predictable money and don’t get backed into a corner selling something you really wouldn’t want to. Giving up some small growth for predictability keeps the rest of investment on track.
RoombaTheAssaultVacuum
A work person who has always been MAGA has been screaming that the democrats and liberals are why his 401k just lost 277,000 dollars. His actual reason was "If democrats had never EXISTED Trump wouldn't have had to do this to us to fix things!"
twatburglar
I'm nearly 40, and in only the past 20 months did my employer force me to contribute to a 401K which made a little over 10k. I now no longer work for that organization, unfortunately, it was my dream job. But you know what? Being poor for most of my adult life, makes me less jaded over all this. Even though I'm living the DC suburbs as a SAHM, while my husband works for the feds (as one of the good guys), it's still unfathomable to watch this shit go down.
fformulaa
Amazing how much is supported by the market. I was thinking about pulling my roth ira when it gets back to $1.2k where it was gor like the last year and a half and buying bonds or something. Shit, who knows if we'll have an irs anymore! Lol https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1Nnk1M3dmMTY0ZDVnNjBoNjN2cjJ6MTMybG9yb2FpaTd6b2w4ZzZnbSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/IV2DvTArF5b9u/200w.webp
TakeAChillPill16
Related, if you have money in an IRA, consider doing Roth conversion. When the market bounces back (eventually), more of your money will be in a tax-free account. You'll have to pay some taxes on it next year, but again, IRS rules might be different or not enforced.
aThingWithAKeyboard
But LOW sell HIGH. It's time to invest not time to cash out ....
horseman05
PushPullMagnet
Jeebus, this image has way too many pixels for comfort. Put a warning!
horseman05
DOcelot1
Anyone in America right now
Rhythmaster
You're not a dumbass, you're being exploited by a purposefully confusing predatory health insurance system. Nobody could navigate the beurocratic nightmare of american "healthcare" without making mistakes like that, it's designed to be confusing and the whole system including the stock market is designed so that rich people can crash it and get richer, while people who need the cash for medical bills are forced to sell at the worst possible time. They are straight up stealing your money.
rubypilgrim
If you're feeling crappy because investing in the stock market turned bad, don't. Just don't. The stock market does this. It goes up, it goes down, all the time. It's all emotions and bots. If security is important, put the money in money market accounts. If you wanna go a little wild, look into puts and calls, though those are not guarantees of success. They're more successful when the market is having wild swings, but not a guarantee. As for the Trump effect, count on market manipulation.
crateo
What is a "health savings account"?
jimskeeter
Allows you to put away money to cover deductibles tax free. If not needed for medical bills, it rolls over to the next year. There’s an opportunity to build up a substantial balance over time. Only allowed in combination with a “high deductible “ medical insurance plan
crateo
So...it is an insurance for your insurance, right? Or am I too european to understand it correctly?
jimskeeter
You’re on the right track. The bonus is keeping the extra tax free
Mr21782Man
Don't listed to OP, as they put it "dumb ass". You should talk to a qualified financial professional about your particular situation. They'll generally advise you to keep some minimum amount as cash so the situation OP talks about doesn't occur, and then invest based on your profile. The amounts and where to invest are heavily personalized. Dumping it all in an indexed fund is being a dumb ass.
Subsound
Are you a qualified financial professional?
Mr21782Man
Can people not fucking read. Guess not.
Subsound
I'll take that as a no.
paynoattentiontousernames
Never sell when its down unless you NEED the money and cant wait, or if you're 100% sure it will go down even further. But selling low = loss
Hexidimentional
Canadian here, what the heck is a high deductable health savings account?
JT1984
A scam. An American scam.
macrolet
Or ... Or ... Adopt socialized medicine like every other major nation, and you don't have to gamble your own health and wealth in the stock market. Health care is a basic human necessity, and taking care of each other (communally) is one of the core facets of a functioning society.
freemab
I didn’t know I had the power to do this myself. Thanks for the heads up!
CheesecakePi
If the provider doesn't offer some sort of discount for paying in full, there's no rush, so you could set up a payment plan with them, and do a recurring withdrawal from the HSA for those payments. Pull out maybe a couple hundred dollars a month from the HSA instead of thousands all at once (still going to be a bit of a loss, but a much smaller one while you wait for things to rebound). That's what I'm gonna be doing.
rshini
Also most hospitals have some kind of financial services, they're usually a pain in the ass to deal with, but it's worth the hassle (also get your medical shit itemized so you can spot things that don't belong there and get those contested) to knock down the total or get a lower minimum monthly.
Frostycopper
I've applied yearly to children's Mercy's aid. They don't ask for much, and I've received help every year.
goaldigga
Dude i got bored /distracted reading this. How tf do you guys do it? I am definitely leaving money on the table by just not understanding, getting frustrated / bored, and then getting distracted. Free Luigi this shit is absurd.
PrincessWasabi
Yoh and I both need a financial planner lol. It’s okay, we’re good at other things
CheesecakePi
Mostly a combination of working in finance (where wasting money is practically heresy), being thrifty out of habit, and a major dose of stubbornness and spite where I'd rather tell the system to go fuck itself than concede defeat.
KatInTheCorner
I am pretty disabled and unable to work a typical job, definitely not a full-time job.
I was talking with my friend about their 401k the other day and I was actually pretty surprised to hear what it entailed.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it kinda so sounded like the premise of a 401k is based on the assumption that the economy is going to keep doing well.
It sounds like a bit of a gamble, I'd rather just keep some money under a mattress.
CheesecakePi
I'd say four points where this is incorrect. First is a bit of a skewed frame of reference. With a 401k, you're going to be saving for years, most likely decades. Over that much time, periods of the economy doing well more than balance out the stretches where things go poorly. Second, there will be a pretty wide range of investment options available, so you have a lot of control on how much risk you're taking on. If you want to stick to very conservative, low risk investments, you can (though /1
CheesecakePi
that will lower your return overall, because those don't pay out as much). Third, don't overlook the benefits of having your contributions count being made on either a pre-tax basis (letting all those savings grow tax-free, and postpone the taxes until you take them out) or Roth (paying taxes up front, but then being able to withdraw them tax free down the road). And fourth, money in your mattress ALWAYS loses ground to inflation. 2/2
freemab
A company match is common, so you’re profiting from that, plus there are low risk options in most plans.
KatInTheCorner
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me! 🤗
freemab
Plus the contributions are not taxed until you take them out in a standard account. Roth accts are post taxes.
SidonisAntares
Cash out only what you need for medical expenses as you need it, negotiate for payment plans as much as possible after insurance does its thing, turn off automatic dividend reinvestment program (DRIP) if able, reinvest dividends into less volatile items like dividend and bond ETFs. They still take share value hits when the market does, but their bigger value is in paying out dividends and interest on the bonds. Move the rest when the market recovers.
VikingsAreNinjaPirates
It's so fucking exhausting living in this capitalist hellscape.
NeverDownvoteMelBrooks
You can delay medical expense payment for quote a while before they get nasty. Then you can negotiate to pay cash for a percentage to usually get them to go away. In case it gets to that.
SidonisAntares
And throwing like $25 a month at it usually helps delay as well because they can’t say you aren’t trying to pay them at all
SidonisAntares
Some people may see HSAs as a chance to make more tax free money, and that’s fine, but if you can’t pay your medical bills because of a recession then it’s worthless anyways. Be aggressive with pocket money or whatever retirement options you have. Being moderate to conservative with your HSA is safer when it comes to your health.
IAmTheBadW01f
You can also reimburse yourself from the HSA for cash paid towards medical expenses. I don't think there would be any issues doing the reimbursement a few months from now, if the market recovers, or possibly longer, but I'd do more research if I wanted to delay it into next year
SithElephant
https://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historical-chart I recommend. This is the zoomed out version going back a hundred years. The Dow Jones index, inflation adjusted. 'over the long term' - is _very_ long term. Put money in in the 60s, and it diddn't double until the 2000s. It diddn't get back to where you started until the mid nineties.
freemab
The stocks that make up the Dow change don’t they? Not the same stocks 30 years later.
SithElephant
Yes, but it doesn't matter. It's weighted so that it's basically the total value of the stock market.
jimskeeter
The Dow is only 30 stocks. S&P 500 is really the index for the complete market
SithElephant
I mean, yes, but also