arcua19
155988
3874
299
If anyone was wondering, this is how much I just had to pay for only half of my monthly prescriptions. Needless to say I left the store crying. This is what you have to deal with in the US. I'll have more ready next week that will also be about another 500. Makes you wonder if it's worth living at all when living like this is your only option. It costs more here to keep myself alive than to rent a fucking house. How fucked is that.
***edit: this IS with insurance and any online discounts my pharmacist an I could find. I do have a deductible but even when I hit it that $431 one only goes down to about $405 and the rest are just as bad
My deductible is $4,000 and once I've spent that out of pocket SOME prescriptions (the ones that are only <$20) are free. The others get maybe $25 knocked off which really doesn't make much of a difference. However it is a difference I am grateful for nonetheless.
***second edit: downvote away y'all. If you saw how much I just had to pay to stay alive do you really think I care if you take my internet points away? Have some sense.
imasnorlaxIRL
I'm so fucking grateful to be north of the border -_-
TehMightyEngineer
Wait, if I hit my deductible it doesn't just make everything free? What the fuck is the point of lowering my deductible then?!
Pusilanimous
No, after you hit it you usually pay 20% of stuff and then have to hit your out of pocket maximum for certain things to be “free.”
polkadotcardi
This sucks and I’m sorry. Don’t stop searching for discounts. Have you contacted the drug manufacturer(s)?
arcua19
I'm always searching and yes I have called. Thank you for your kind advice
mistersaIvage
Insurance isn’t healthcare
KaJuN
Sure it is! It’s caring for the health of the CEO’s portfolio.
ShawnRussell
I still don't understand the u.s. mentality towards health care. Complain about government. Do nothing to fix it..
Upvoter2000x
nobody can agree on the cause
godzillaharddisksson
Anyone defending the healthcare system in the states is in my opinion, an idiot. Flame all you want but what the fuck are guys thinking?
pluppi
Well there is no healthcare system to defend, is there? It is an insurance business.
YesImThatMrTrebus
Every time I get into this with one of you lot ours defense defense defense. It's fucking broken and you're being extorted
IPostAboutPoliticsIfYouDontLikeItSuckIt
People downvoting this peek into reality for sick Americans are massive dicks. Sorry, friend. Wish we could get our shit together & improve.
ceebee6563127001
Have you looked into ordering from Canada? Same drugs, way cheaper
JayceeI89
I did this for a few years. Well worth it! My $300 a month antidepressant went down to $30!
Alexir
Conservatives always find money for military and wars but can’t help get healthcare going
sillysalmon
Yeah. This is the reason I'm not fucking walking out on my job right now. I hate it so goddamn much, but I have insurance that covers (1/2)
sillysalmon
plenty of shit. Had to have emergency surgery 6 mo. ago and realized exactly how important it was seeing the bills. (2/2)
raraluiz
"Why don't you just get a better job with better insurance?" - Something my far far far right cousin would say.
Quesadildos
My sister has CF. She needs ~$6,000 of medication per month. If her insurance were to ever stop covering them she might not live to see 20.
arcua19
That is nothing but an absolute shame. Send my love to her and hi five her for me on that 20th bday bc dammit she's gonna make it!
freshlight
You will too! I cant come close to understanding how you feel about your situation but we can only look toward what the future holds
viz0
I’m sorry. It’s not political, it’s personal. No one, paying taxes, should be in the situation you’re in.
kleenflo12
I just don't understand this at all, what would happen if you couldn't afford this. Like honestly, sorry doc that's twice my income.
heyguysimtom
Doctors still have to treat you, but it'll fuck you're credit
Bystandr
*your
Sapherno11
*Bystander
Bystandr
I had the "Bystander" user name early on, then couldnt login or retrieve password.. made this account.
garfield529
It happens. We couldn’t afford the treatment for my mother’s hepC, so she died of liver failure. It happens every day.
arcua19
I would get incredibly sick again and end up in the ER a lot and the bills I couldn't afford to pay would fall on the American taxpayer.
kleenflo12
Well please use every available resource at your disposal. Call your Congress (?) Member, mayor, grandpops garbage collector etc. Be well :)
naikou
It’s like our healthcare system was inspired by Catch-22.
Downstream
Silly you, those are externalities so they don't count.
I0VE525P00GE
This is why I hate people in the UK that moan about the NHS. The NHS is fucking awesome btw.
HardcoreMango
Just because ones worse doesn't mean they can't both suck.
ChloeRed
Yeah, more people need to moan about what the government is doing to it :(
StephenBell2nd
America, Home of the FUCK YOU POOR PEOPLE.
rvcaptn
universal health care it is past time why is anyone against it? seriously it works in 58 other countries why not here?
pluppi
Corporete greed and "normal people" who defend it because there is hope inside of them, thinking "one day I'll be rich too" (:
bamcobra
EXACTLY! Been the reason people vote against their own interests for years.
ThatAssholeOverThere
And because it's for profit we're paying more than if we had national healthcare
FredGarvinMaleProstitute
have you looked into discounted pricing available to those without insurance ?
FartPoweredPogoStick
Dis right here.
BlaneStrickland
I’m in the pharmaceutical industry. Copay assistance, discount cards, rebates, cash pay prices. All ways to cut down costs
CairoLen
Update says OP has insurance.
ShouTuckersGhost
Looks like OP has lousy insurance to me
QueenAriofBelekovia
This! I worked as a pharmacy tech for 7 years in a small chain and I always price checked on discount cards because fuck deductibles (1)
QueenAriofBelekovia
Pharmacy's don't like to use a lot of non-insurance discount cards because they charge the pharmacy up to $5 per run. The best one is (2)
QueenAriofBelekovia
(that we could find) called scriptcycle and my old work still uses it. It cost the least to run and has the best discount that we found (3)
QueenAriofBelekovia
I don't want to link it but google will help you find it. I'm not advertising for scriptcycle, just trying to help because fuck med prices
IxnayOnTheOttenRay
Yeah except these are non-generics. They charge WHAT-FUCKING EVER. My meds have doubled in price in the last 2 years.
OlDickTwist
I just can't understand why more people aren't enraged with our system. It's economic slavery. Best bet, live life to the fullest and if you
OlDickTwist
Get sick just fucking die. Nobody can handle that type of debt. Not to mention people are paying 800+ bucks for their small families insuran
prosciuttocotto
Don’t understand how Congress always find money to finance wars, but not to fix the health care system in US.
pluppi
Because US econony relies on war...
lindadeegotmebanned
It would be too fucking massive thing to do now. It should have been done 50 years a go.
Rifneno
Well, current congress is republican. And the republican motto is, "Poor people should just fucking die." So...
justvenomcake
And the Democratic motto is, "Poor people should just stay poor."
heyguysimtom
Good thing the problems all started with the current Congress right?
Rifneno
That's true. The original problem stems from an entirely different set of conservatives.
heyguysimtom
Elaborate
Bystandr
They could mitigate it. Maybe not fix right away. First limit profiteering by reducing patent length and allowing generic production.
Bystandr
This will impact R&D directly short term, but there doesnt seem to be another solution as companies have chosen the current path. The second
Bystandr
step is to triage coverage. Those with the most expensive treatments even after the first step will have to be passed over to give effective
Bystandr
care to others. There is a lot of room to do step one, trim hospital administration (automate) and restrict redundant testing and tripple
Bystandr
billing, but after this, the hard choices need to be made.
williamiswill1762000
Congress spends a trillion dollars every year on healthcare. The military isn’t the problem.
prosciuttocotto
I didn’t say that, I said that it’s a broken rotten system...anyway the Us way of doing things is over, sooo
aroberts68
But you can't deny their budget should be cut some
cinematicheart
My father inlaw has stage 4 cancer. Its been a month and a half. His insurance still hasnt approved the chemo.
TharrickLawson
But you have to wait *so long* for things on the NHS in the UK! /s
cinematicheart
I say this all the time. Rednecks claim you have to wait months in canada for a broken arm. My fil will die before he gets treatment
cinematicheart
Our system is a joke.
arcua19
That is awful and I am so sorry
cinematicheart
Thank you.
wheresurgurl
Fuck the pharmaceutical industry as well
FlashyBeige
Yeah.....we're not all bad...
wheresurgurl
Some of them I assume are good people
angelghoul
I am sorry. Everyone should have a right to life, liberty, and happiness. Not just the rich who can afford it.
IDidNotHitHerItsNotTrue
Pursuit* of happiness. And what about this story impedes her right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness?
arcua19
With a splinter-y broom stick
i336
I /like/ it.
izoli413365
What insurance do you have? Thats absurd.
arcua19
Anthem BCBS
izoli413365
I wonder if a different insurance provider would do better for you. Ive never had prescriptions require any of my annual deductible.
OrangeRanger
They will, I've had united healthcare and blue cross blue shield. I've never had to pay more than $10 for any prescription I've been given.
OrangeRanger
Had a $14k surgery, only had to pay 1k out of pocket after all said and done.
arcua19
Lol why did that get downvoted? It's the insurance I have
Ravben
I used to have Anthem with them, it's pretty bad.
whereamandwhatamidoinghere
What state if you don't mind me asking?
zma123456
And this is why I'm planning on moving to a different country. I love the US but living here is becoming more difficult day by day.
Ikwilstroopwaffels
I moved to the Netherlands 3 years ago. Healthcare here isnt even socialized, yet is still orders of magnitude cheaper than the US.
beaglefeatures
I predicted that when Trump was voted in, that there would be a rise in economic refugees to other parts of the world. Seems I'm not wrong.
dawniefluff
Come to Canada! :)
TheTimeless
I'm trying, but it's surprisingly harder than I thought it would be :( suggestions?
Kamasu0Tra
Be skilled in something useful. Canada faces the same issues as the US in regards to a surplus of unskilled labor, and the fastest way to
Kamasu0Tra
get in is to provide a service we need, like doctors, engineers, and other STEM field degrees.
Assfullofbread
Marry a Canadian
zma123456
It's on the list of countries I'd move to. Plus I can be close to the US and visit anytime I want.
Etranel
Don't come to Canada, we don't fucking want you.
SmallHandsBigPenis
See, not all Canadians are nice.
dawniefluff
Despite what that other guys says, you'd be welcome lol
zma123456
Thanks Mate ! Loved Canada when I visited there last summer.
Kamasu0Tra
By who exactly? Our immigration policy is quite strict, as we face the same issues as the US. We don't need more unskilled labor.
Kamasu0Tra
Unless you are well trained and good at what you do, or a refugee from a wartorn country, Canada doesn't really want you.
Wildmtnchild
Try an app called GoodRx. It finds the cheapest prices in your area. You enter the drug and ur zip code and it prices them.
[deleted]
[deleted]
GoodAssGame
.
macncheeseme
.
daria
THIS. I save hundeds per month with GoodRx... goodrx.com
mikeoui
That doesn’t work with insurance
bananaknees
It only works with insurance
Liamer88
The fact that this app is useful to someone gives me both hope and despair about the free market.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Liamer88
I didn't say you were, I was saying that it gives me hope and despair for it
TheManyMadMasks
.
Jusmar
It keeps routing me to mexico
dontfuqtheworldupohwaityoudid
Underrated comment
QueenCousland
.
AngryWayneGretzki
Cool service, but has been very hit or miss for my area. And with no way to report when there super off, I tend not to use it.
mandarawr43
The problem is that they don't know what brand's of medicine pharmacies have or the qty that they get the bottles in. And both of those (1)
mandarawr43
Can drastically change the price. And for some medicines it's super hard to always get the same one in to keep a uniform price
TheGrayBox
This is very circumstantial. You should always try insurance first if possible, especially if you have a deductible to meet.
arcua19
GoodRx routinely saves my ass. Got one $500 prescription down to $58! Unfortunately they don't have something for every med tho
discardedusername
Have you tried to see if you could somehow qualify for state insurance on top of your current?
VonKarmanVortexStreet
Try the Blink app @OP. Blink has the LOWEST set in stone prices. From one healthcare professional to you.
rawrbadmonster
Also try contacting the drug manufacturer for financial aide. I'm not sure it exists for all drugs but I got my $30 a day pill for free.
rawrbadmonster
I had to fill out a shit ton of paperwork and get a bunch of doctors notes, but may be worth it to check if that's an option.
IrishSkillet
.
idontmindadds
Here you would never pay as much as 50 dollars. If a regular drug is needed to sustain life
idontmindadds
The state will pay 100% when reaching a certain spending amount, even to all citizens
thesameoldfears
Yeah they're awesome, helped me get some meds for my dog down from a few hundred to just $150 or so but they def don't help w everything
arcua19
I never tried it for my dogs prescriptions! Definitely doing it next time
SingularPing
.
SpecialAgentSkully
Hey OP prescription hope helps lower every script down to 50$ per medication if you make under 31K each year/under 50K if you're married 1/2
SpecialAgentSkully
Or under 100K if you have dependents. https://prescriptionhope.com/
AngryWayneGretzki
After a few google searches, theres quite a few reports of abuse and billing nightmares. But no "Hey this is great" reviews.
TheGrayBox
I don’t believe that for a second.
i336
What if you take location out of the picture? Maybe you can get someone to ship you your Rx from 500 miles away?
TheGrayBox
Prescriptions are filled by pharmacies. What you are suggesting is illegal.
i336
:( that's sad. I was hoping a pharmacy 500mi away could fill it and then have it mailed. I can understand why this is impossible though.
Mec26
Most RX can’t be filled out of state.
i336
D:
Jocke
We've got a yearly roof at about €120 for prescription drugs here in Sweden. After that, we dont pay anything for a year. Just saying...
ClydeTheBelovedBandit
Idk, last i checked its about 200 € but i think the 120 € is fpr doctors appointments, no?
zsefvgb
Ontario just made most major prescription drugs free for anyone under 25
wickedjuha
It’s about the same in Finland. Income tax for common working people is ~20-30%. Half from gov. budget goes to (social and) health care.
PreciousPotato
It's 2% of your income before tax in Germany. Then again, you never pay more than 10€ per prescription.
sircypher
You don't. Someone does.
pluppi
True. But even though I never use the healthcare system more than a few times during my entire life, it is still profit for me in the end.
thorkun
That's the point, everyone is paying so that everyone can use it. Not sure why this is so alien to people.
JesusMowsMyLawn
"We don't pay anything..." Oh yes, you do. Your personal income tax rate is over 50%. That's how you pay.
pluppi
It is actually about 30%... Though more taxes on other stuffs gas, electronics and everything but air...
Naiix
You get less money than what gets deducted by taxes if you die
AreThoseMyPants
In Finland, if my personal income tax rate goes over 50%, I'm still earning €3300+ /month after taxes. Less pay -> smaller percentage.
thorkun
For the personal income tax to be over 50% here in Sweden you need to literally be in the 1% and make like 300k $ a year. Just saying.
mentallychallengeaccepted
WAIT. DON’T WE HAVE THAT YOU PAY A PERCENTAGE ABOVE A CERTAIN SUM? LIKE 30% OF EVERYTHING ABOVE 37 K
thorkun
Yes, 31% up to like 40k, 51% for any income earned between 40k and 60k, and any money you earn >60k you pay 57% of. But in order to pay more
thorkun
than 50% of your TOTAL income in income tax you would need to make about 300k, and would also put you in the 1% richest in the country.
arctichunter11
Can someone explain to me how this works economically? How can a govt afford to pay for so much of their citizens' healthcare? It's not free
SmolTenk
In germany it works by making insurance mandatory. Gov insurances control about 80% of the market on the buying side, which allows them
SmolTenk
not only to get great discounts, but they have experts on staff so they can actually evaluate what teatments are effective, increasing
SmolTenk
competition among the suppliers.
allaussieadventure
It’s just a restructuring of taxes and regulating the health care and insurance industry. Big pharma loses and people don’t die.
hellifiknowwhatsgoingon
higher taxes, more allocated to public health than say, military or paying politicians...
thorkun
Pretty sure americans spend more of their GDP on healthcare than anyone else, and still have to pay out of pocket when going to the doctor.
LordxGodxKing
gov tells company it will pay $5 for a pill that cost $1 to make instead of $5,000. company agrees because some money is still money
RageCuddles
For drugs it's because the government has more bargaining power. In Canada I use a generic drug that costs $5 but the same pills are $30 US
Mugz
Mostly the drug companies don't set their prices at $800 for a pill that cost them 85c to make.
elucca
Less parasites. The US pays more for healthcare per capita than Sweden, but evidently that money goes in someone's pocket.
mylifeforhire
I'm pretty sure it's a combination of higher taxes and price regulation on healthcare products like pharmaceuticals.
theInternetKing
yah pretty straightforward
muhvitus
It's not price regulation, it's price negotiation with huge leverage. If company asks too high price, it won't get subsidized.
muhvitus
If it doesn't get subsidized, it won't get bought -> no business. It's better to sell drug cheaply than not at all.
mylifeforhire
That makes a lot of sense
Imgurexplorer0715
But moving there and qualifying for citizen healthcare can take years.
spookyactionatadistance
In Canada you get healthcare coverage on arrival. We have a monthly cap of 88$ a month.
angelGrinderSciFiLover
enjoy (tax)paying for a fresh influx of people with serious healthcare costs !!
spookyactionatadistance
We screen immigrants. Immigrants need to be a viable addition to the economy not a drain (those rules don't apply to refugees). I'm in
spookyactionatadistance
2) school now which btw is paid for fully and I also get 1200$ /month + travel but when I worked I made 45k/year and took home 35k.
RageCuddles
Sort of, but it's actually tough to get a PR card. My bf did 4 years of Uni here and it took 2 years after that. Plus he had to pass /1
RageCuddles
A ton of medical tests to qualify. /2
bluesandwhich
As a Canadian, I was not aware of this monthly cap. What province are you in?
spookyactionatadistance
Oh ya. Sorry for that. Universal healthcare is a federal law but healthcare is provincial. I'm from Quebec
bluesandwhich
Aaah okay. We don't have that in Alberta, although most prescriptions aren't crazy expensive. But having a cap would certainly be nice!
swvagirl
If it makes you feel any better I have an IV med that costs 20k per infusion. I am getting ready for my 3rd loading dose
i336
Whoa. What's it for?? Very curious
arcua19
I am so genuinely sorry to hear that. I am very fortunate that my case is not worse. Sending love.
swvagirl
The plus is I hit my out of pocket max really fast. Good luck OP
floyd007
I'm really sorry. Hope you get well soon. What's the drug name, if you dont mind me asking
swvagirl
Remicade, it's for use with crohns, ulcerative colitis and rheumatoid arthritis
Pentium8542
How many vials? I get remicade and they only charge me 5k for the med. 20k sounds ridiculous. Average should be 1k per vial.
swvagirl
It seems to be working well, aside from giving me 3 periods within a month. :/
arcua19
Oh girl bless your heart I most certainly couldn't do that
larrylovesleon
My nephew w/UC had the infusions too. He wound up having surgery & is doing great now. Hope the infusions work for you. Wish you the best!
tealwheel
We don't have a healthcare system. We are a profit center for a web of very wealthy companies
IPostAboutPoliticsIfYouDontLikeItSuckIt
Totally true. "System" implies a coherent, thoughtful structure. We have nothing like that. I know, I've worked in it for 20 years...
descriptiveinsurgency
What are you talking about? Ever since 1950s there’s been government interference in the healthcare industry making it hella expensive today
Namotatop
Truly distopian.
shush6
And a ridiculously named law that mandated that people be forced to hand them money for worse and worse insurance.
ih8economics
oh you mean the law where I am below poverty level and cant afford insurance because my minimum wage job doesnt give me full time so
ih8economics
i get fined tons of money for not having it? that law? but its the best thing ever according to 1 side of the arguement.
iamalreadyaghost
Profit is a system
EveryoneGetsAFreeCat2
America is like a real life cyberpunk story but with less neon and pink mohawks.
Jusmar
Which is why mandating that everyone is required to have insurance while not regulating the wealthy companies is kinda stupid.
JosetteHouse
As a Canadian, I just don't understand!!! You have to pay big money to delivery a child, to have chemo, etc Im sad for you. Its a non-sense!
BenGoodal
It’s not a health care system cause noones healthy. You have a disease management system, cause that makes money. And people dead.
Patient00
Fuck off, really, you only value what you guys got when you loose it. Look at me, I live in Brazil. My neighbors needed medicine for 1/2
Patient00
Their autistic kid. Even thought the medicine it's not available in here they have to pay absurd taxes. 6 times original value. That 500 2/3
Patient00
Just became a 3000. I also needed for my dog. Same story. Couldn't pay 720 dollars. Today he is confined to a wheelchair.
ih8economics
ya stupid people in the United States believe everything is owed to them for free and then whine all day. People live better now then they
ih8economics
ever have in history. ya theres still problems but they act like we live in nazi Germany.
alex5775
And there are countries where the mass population is starving to death. Something worse does not invalidate problems
Patient00
I did not said it invalidated a problem, I just vented.
MediaMuerte
It's also why we have the best hospitals and research in the world
shush6
Don't bring facts to an emotion fight.
SouperScott
I'd sure like to go to one some day.
GriffinMann41
That literally doesn't matter though when there are people who lose their homes and everything for one visit. I've seen it happen.
MediaMuerte
Maybe they should be better with money
GriffinMann41
Yes, because minor pharmaceutical visits definitely should cost a person nearly 300k so they can live. That's completely reasonable, right?
MediaMuerte
What do you think pays for the research it takes to treat illness?
pluppi
First of all, it is not true. Secondly, all your arguments are invalid (:
MediaMuerte
Please find a list disproving it
pluppi
Or the opposite?
pluppi
Not that i matter at all when 5% of the population have access to it...
ManicMDMechanic
This hasn’t been up long enough yet for downvotes.
MediaMuerte
It's the truth, but some people would rather cut research and quality for cheap and emotional
reyla
I know a medical professional that took his wife to Mexico to deliver their baby. He said it was cheap with better care than here.
ManicMDMechanic
I try to make reasonably arguments here but unless it’s fairly liberal it’s not going to end well I’ve found.
seandel20189000
But as soon as someone says 'raise the taxes' all hell breaks loose.
IKnowYouHateMeYes
Throwing money at it won't fix things.
seandel20189000
Wow so even money cant fix money problems now huh
StructuralIntegrityIsOverrated
Guys, look it up. In pretty much all European countries, total health spending per capita is way lower than in the US, and w/ better service
MediaMuerte
Why would we need to raise taxes? There is plenty of money. Government wastes it.
seandel20189000
Its hoarded by too few
MediaMuerte
Money isn't hoarded. It is invested
seandel20189000
Money will inevitably collect at the top of the pyramid, whichever method you use to describe it.
Vaeevictiss
You really think if taxes were raised it would change anything to do with the healthcare industry?
ForgotMyOtherAcct
If taxes were just raised in general, not a bit. If healthcare industry gets hit with sticks, maybe.
Koiface
It would be an important part of the whole solution, but obviously not enough by itself to make a real change. Taxes don't fix corruption.
seandel20189000
Heavy regulation would help. But good luck with what would essentially be big companies heavily regulating themselves.
seandel20189000
For anything to change in the healthcare industry, we would finally have realized that those pharma fuckers are the root cause
ohkayykayykayy
Curious- pro marijuana?
seandel20189000
Indifferent to its use.
seandel20189000
And we wouldve heavily regulated them
seandel20189000
Woops i said 'regulated', here come the rep downvotes.
LoquaciousDude
Wasn't there a whole thing about big companies paying less than 0.1% in taxes? Try fixing that, and you would probably see enough to fund HC
thegu
Sadly it's easier said than done and there are some pretty dumb ideas in place to try to get companies to move money back from overseas
ottotravel
Someone here may recall that our president, whats his name, just passed a tax break for the richest of the rich.
seandel20189000
I completely agree. But thatll never happen while 1) mid and low class reps dont realize that these people are not representing them, only
seandel20189000
Their own wallets, and 2) we stip fighting amongst ourselves and realize class discrepancies contribute the most heavily to a lot of oroblem
The701
A few huge multi-nationals get so many tax incentives, they have a negative tax bill.
seandel20189000
Fucking corrupt as fuck. That shit pisses me off so much when theres people like OP living through these sorts of situations.
sdfq3gb23gb423g2
you and me, both. i try not to dwell on stuff but man is it hard with this one
NateintheNorth
It's gross how little taxes some of them pay. I'd like to see it raised to 30% or more. If they say 'ok, we'll move everything overseas'...
lethalcup
The issue is, make them pay taxes and they lay off employees/ lower wages. Corporate greed will never go away, low taxes helps employees
NateintheNorth
Kick em out. Other companies would gladly expand into their territory. Raise taxes on big box stores, I'd bet Target would move in on...
NateintheNorth
...we can say 'ok, America will no longer buy any of your stuff' sure other companies would love to fill the void.
TheForceRestrained
If America stopped buying their stuff we'd have no more stuff, or stuff would get much more expensive
seandel20189000
Agreed. Greedy pieces of shit