IPostSwords
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This is the story of the real life equivalent of Valyrian steel.
In the books, valyrian steel is described thusly:
"Lighter yet stronger, and nothing holds an edge like it. If you take a whetstone to a Valyrian blade, you will need another whetstone, or maybe another hand to hold it."
"Nobody knows how the Valyrians forged their steel. Less than a handful of smiths can now even reshape it. The process, like so much of their civilisation, was lost in the Doom. Many claim they wove magic spells into the molten metal and blasted it with dragonfire. When you see a Valyrian blade, smokey and dark as if drinking in the sun and rippling with a thousand foes, you may not scoff so loudly."
In real life, Valyrian steel was inspired by Wootz, or "damascus" steel. Wootz hails from Indian sites in Konasamudram, Nizamabad district and Andhra Pradesh (Lowe 1990; Voysey 1832) and Gatihosahalli in the Chitradurga district of Kamataka (Freestone and Tite 1986; Rao 1970).
It is a heterogenous steel, with a soft base and hard carbides.
* For more sword content, check me out at http://www.youtube.com/c/IPostSwords *
I did an audio transcript of this incase you're not into reading. Check the youtube link.
This is a ceramic crucible, heated until the steel is molten in a brick furnace, with forced air being pushed into the charcoal fires to feed the flames. In the crucible is iron ore, charcoal, and glass (which melts and floats on top of the forming steel, protecting it from air).
The wootz process involved very slow heating, followed by slow cooling, occurring over 24-48 hours. This lead to distinct patterns of low carbon steel with a lattice of high carbon steel that provides good edge retention in a shock absorbing core material.
Pieces of bloomery iron were heated for days in sealed crucibles with a carbon-containing material until enough carbon had been absorbed for the steel to be formed as a liquid, at 1300 °C–1400 °C. The carbon content of the resultant button of steel was about 1.5%.
This technique disappeared around the 1750's, likely due to the depletion of the mines inregion which removed the incentive for making this style of steel, as the specific alloying compounds in the ore from a small group of mines allowed this steel to form surface carbides. The end of the age of wootz lead to the use of more conventionally produced "bloomery iron", an earlier steel, until modern monosteel was made in the late 19th and early 20th centuries via the bessemer process.
Wootz must be worked colder than modern monosteels, or even lower carbon ancient steels. When worked too hot, the carbides (cementite aka ferric carbide or Fe3C) would dissolve back into the steel, resulting in a homogeneous, ultra high carbon steel was was brittle an unsuited to use.
Here is a small button of wootz. You can see the distinct banding around the periphery of this disk of steel, caused by the carbides randomly segregating intro high and low carbon regions, which crystallise during the slow cooling process.
The very high-carbon crucible steel (wootz) which was allowed to cool extremely slowly after liquefaction, so that the cementite (iron carbide, Fe3C) crystals were large enough to form a visible pattern on the surface.
wootz cakes have been known to display a distinct white colour due to the presence of white streaks of cementite formed during solidification. This typical white color was noted by Greek historians by specifically stating that the wootz steel received by Alexander from India in 326BC as “white iron”. (R. Balasubramaniam, 2007)
Here you can see the white lines of course cementite. The dark background is tempered maternsite, or sorbite. It is a shock absorbing crystalline arrangement of iron and carbon. The cementite crystalline structure of the white lines is hard, and keeps the edge from dulling.
And a cross section reveals this even better. This particular button has a lot of white lines (cementite) which would mean it is quite hard and perhaps brittle.
Here's an image demonstrating the variety of results you can achieve using different steel sources, like carbon steels, wrought iron, high alloy carbon steels, and mixes of the aforementioned.
The iron ore used in india at the time contained vanadium which assists in carbide segregation, giving wootz its unique properties. (J.D. Verhoeven, A.H. Pendray, W.E. Dauksch, 1998)
Once the steel is slowly drawn into a sword, it is heated till it glows cherry red. It is then quenched, or rapidly cooled.
Individual makers had various methods for quenching, some opting to use forced air (which cools more slowly than liquid quenching, reducing the chance of stress fractures, but also reducing the hardness of the cementite and thus reducing the edge retention)
Others chose to quench in oil, brine, or hot water. Some even used acidic solutions, which cool even more quickly than water. This risks cracking the blade, but achieves the very hardest carbides in the cementite bands.
The fast quenched (water and acid) blades required tempering, which is a stress relieving process in which you heat the blade to a few hundred degrees (200c), which relaxes the soft sorbite regions whilst leaving the martensitic derivative cementite intact.
Here's an etched portion of a bar of wootz, showing the random swirls of dark sorbite and lighter cementite. This shows a fairly tight grained swirly appearance, known as Black Wootz, or Kara Khorassan. it is among the rarest forms of wootz, along with Kara Taban, and "ladder wootz", which is made by selectively grinding and then reforging bars of wootz to form artistic patterns.
Here we see Kara Khorassan on the left, and Kara Taban on the right. Note that Kara Khorassan is darker and tighter in terms of the swirling crystalline structures. It is also more desirable the Kara Taban
This is ladder wootz, It is made via various forging process involving grinding the bar of steel and the reheating hand hammering the bar flat. This leaves lines or rings in the steel, caused by compressing the grain during the reforging. It is purely decorative, and only found in the highest grade wootz swords.
Wootz was widely exported, and via the Volga trade route reached norther Europe and Scandinavia.
This sword features a famous signature, saying ulfberht. We don't quite know what the significance of the word is, apart from the direct translation being "bright wolf", but the highest quality swords of the age had it. It is assumed that it was the identification of a smith, or blacksmithing house. It was presumably made by the Frankish, as the lettering indicates it is not Scandinavian, however many are found in norse burials, as it was high prized by vikings.
These swords were thought to have used imported wootz steel, taken by the vikings from oriental regions of the world via the Volga trade route. It is my opinion that they traded not just furs, but walrus ivory for this steel. It is also possible a European smith worked out how to make high grade carbon steel, and kept it a well guarded secret, although trade is more likely. Some sources say the swords were manufactured by monks, although this has not been proven via primary sources.
So famous were these swords, that imitations were made at the time, often bearing misspelled inscriptions and inferior steel - we're only just finding out how many are real today, via x-ray diffraction, which reveals the crystalline structure of these swords.
This viking era spatha (reproduction by Patrick Barta of Templ Smithy) has a more typical construction than the previously mentioned ulfberht swords.
This is made by twisting bars of soft iron and harder steel. The hard steel forms the edges, and softer iron the hard, swirly core. The pattern is repeating and consistent, differentiating it from wootz. It also has no carbide segregations, relying on the electrochemical differences in steel types to show dark and light areas,
Diagram of multi - bar pattern welded process. To reinstate my point, this is NOT wootz, simply another method of achieving hard edges and a soft core.
True wootz does not have hard edges and a soft core, but rather hard carbides all throughout the soft steel body. It is a hybrid between pattern welding and monosteel constructions.
This is one of my wootz swords.
It's a shamshir (sabre) from 1600, made in Isfahan, in modern day Iran.
I can't do a writeup on this subject better than those that already exist: http://auctionsimperial.com/om-the-persian-shamshir-and-the-signature-of-assad-allah/?locale=en
The inlaid signature is worse for wear, but looks like the shortform of Assad Allah Al Asfahani, a prolific bladesmith between roughly 1580-1630.
The wootz is Kara Khorassan wootz (black wootz - has a distinct styling, being dark with fine light swirls). Other variants like kara taban and ladder wootz also exist, haven't got one yet.
Blade has gone through resharpening during its lifetime, probably quite some time ago.
Here's a closeup of the wootz on my shamshir. Note the tight swirls of the Kara Khorassan wootz.
Here's another of my wootz swords, this time a turkish Kilij circa 1780. It has a pronounced "T" shaped spine which gives it extreme stiffness, but a very fine, sharp edge. These were used in slashing draw cuts, and were very good at dealing with softer targets (padded armors, flesh, horses etc).
Sources:
(Sources are of mixed formats, sorry for my laziness)
R. Balasubramaniam, (2007) "Wootz steel received by Alexander" Indian J Hist Sci, 42, p. 511
J.D. Verhoeven, A.H. Pendray, and W.E. Dauksch, (1998) "The Key Role of Impurities in Ancient Damascus Steel Blades", JOM, vol. 50 (iss. 9) , pp. 58-64.
Lowe, T. L. (1990). "Refractories in high-carbon iron processing: a preliminary study of the Deccani wootz-making crucibles.". Ceramics and Civilization. Cross-Craft and Cross-Cultural Interaction
Voysey, H. W. (1832). Description of the manufacture of steel in Southern India. Journal of Asiatic Society of Bengal, 1: 245-7.
Freestone, I. C. and Tite, M. S. (1986). "Refractories in the ancient and preindustrial world.". Ceramics and Civilisation. Pittsburgh: American Ceramic Society, 35-63.
K. N. P Rao, J. K. Mukherjee, and A. K. Lahiri, (1970) "Some observations on the structure of ancient steel from south India and its mode of production", Bulletin of Historical Metallurgy, 4, pp. 12-4.
http://auctionsimperial.com/om-the-pe
Further reading:
B. Bronson, (1986) "The Making and Selling of Wootz," Archeomaterials, 1, pp. 13-51.
J.D. Verhoeven et al., "Microsegregation and Banding in Hypereutectoid Steel: Damascus Steel," ISS Trans., 25 (in press).
R.A. Grange, (1971) "Effect of Microstructural Banding in Steel," Met. Mat. Trans. A, 2 , pp. 417-426.
Not a journal article, but referenced:
https://historytelling.wordpress.com/
Poopaloupe
I was just saying that nobody says Woot anymore. Well that time has returned! Wootz!
AllMyCommentsAreBad
No one was alive when we had swords so how do they know they existed? JK it's because they're on video games.
lordyhalvey
Best post today. Interesting, very cool. Woot woot!
ilmastodontti
You pretty much answered all my questions about wootz. As a metal man I didn't have many left but you filled the holes. Thank you.
CasuallyPool
6ftninja
Nova made a documentary about this and it's on YouTube and Netflix https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fTlmrAh1oHI
DoopieSweat
The citations alone won me over +1
IamSometimesLate
This is really cool. Thanks @op.
gx67
This is part of the reason why I loved materials engineering. Learning about this during my Metallurgy courses was fantastic.
Rytam
its at times like these where i could grade on a 5-✰ system. but all i have to give is one ⇧. some typos, but overall great post & effort
THEcableguy
While I was sleeping, you studied this blade! Kudos to you, interesting facts.
CharlesFuckingBronson
*Finishes reading post: "Your long blade skill has increased to 34. You should rest and meditate on what you've learned."
WootzSteel
Relevant. As. Fuck.
IPostSwords
your whole account only pops back into existence when theres a wootz post. It is impressive
BewareOfOGOPOGO
Username checks out.
IPostSwords
I do my best to live up to it
verygoodartsi
where can i get this skyrim smithing mod for special edition?
YouWinThisJohnny
servingmytimeinusersub
This is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to imgur.
heyyouwantatoothpick
How do Damascus blades differ from the ones above? They look similar.
Burke616
Real Damascus steel = Wootz steel, as called by people who assumed it came from Damascus.
IPostSwords
Another steel that etches light
IPostSwords
These are damascus? Like, true damascus. pattern welding is different, uses two different steels folded together, one which etches dark and
Catmancer9000
Wootz there it is
Patrickt333
I suppose it had to be done...
Jus10Ed
Damn it I thought I was going to be the only one to say this.
UpvoteCharlie
TheBurritoConfederacy
Shaka-laka-shaka-laka-shaka-laka-shaka
DiastaticPower
BOOM!
samsonguy920
OffendedSkeleton
DirtPoorFarmerSeedingUsersub
You posted sources and a bibliography?! Way to do +1
Dontdeprivemeofmydelusion
Agreed. +1. I feel like I learned a lot and actually enjoyed it as well. GOT was pretty amazing tonight as well.
DirtPoorFarmerSeedingUsersub
Yes it was
IPostSwords
sadly most of the articles are behind paywalls, but I have access, so if anyone is super interested I can provide some screenshots
xkr73
Man, I'm studying artist blacksmithing and this is like landing on a treasure trove. Thank you so goddamn much.
Dorsk84
Well thought out, actual source material not just Internet links, examples that OP actually has...I wish there was a way to upvote more
Burke616
Do what I'm doing: upvote OP's comments as well.
IPostSwords
You could always subscribe to my youtube channel, for more sword content. www.youtube.com/c/ipostswords
TonyStarkWantsOne
Mockingbirb
Always be careful with sharp weapons!
RandomDudeOnTheInternetThatOwnsAFewWellKnwonBusinsses
What about the guy in the background giving the brutal steal drum solo??
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EyesLikeTheSky
Same thing to us drummers. Jackin off, drum soloing... SSDD
crazymadfreak
HaberdasherInGold
Neither of them are doing a solo if they are both playing .-.
UmmRonYourOn
Best Not a shitpost award goes to... Also I was really hoping for soemthing like this with GOT coming up. Thanks OP
IPostSwords
(The timing may have been intentional)
ThatsMySecretCapImAlwaysHorny
I'm no blacksmith, but the bit where they recast the swords from Ned's didn't seem right.
IPostSwords
It wasn't. What you'd actually do it heat it up to orange or yellow heat, cut it, stack it, the draw it out into a bar and make a sword
ThatsMySecretCapImAlwaysHorny
I didn't think "melt it all up and knacker the crystalline structure" would be step 1 of the instructions.
IPostSwords
well, if you let it cool slowly over 24 hours it might have worked
DragonFromAFewDoorsOver
IPostSwords
username checks out.
DragonFromAFewDoorsOver
Greyz
Love the science side of metallurgy, thanks for posting
IPostSwords
there;s a great book on the topic. Message me and I'll give you a copy
Greyz
A digital copy? I live in AUS btw :P
IPostSwords
Hello fellow aussie. And yeah, digital
SanderTheStrange
pdf?
hollybadass
This blade will cut!
WetBreadMan
IPostSwords
They're doing a shamshir on the 25th of this month actually. I know one of the guys competing
SABill
Cool!
hollybadass
That's awesome dude.
IMostlyPostDogs
Too long, still read. Quite interesting. I own knives made from modern steels with a high vanadium content, they're a bitch to resharpen!
Vyrro
A good diamond set is the way to go. I make knives and crown them with filework. Even a cheap set of jeweler's files will cut through s30v.
IMostlyPostDogs
Dmt diamond are what I use
mirria
A lot of people like to go "we forgot to make blades as strong as damascus steel" when the reality is that we have superior modern methods.
mirria
The important part is that for the era, the technology available and the materials on hand, damascus steel was amazing.
IPostSwords
Big ol' carbides make them very resistant to wear. Unfortunately, that means they are also resisting your sharpening stones
tr3buchet
How much does a sword like that appraise for?
ThatFoodTruckGuy
.
IPostSwords
like my shamshir? if it wasn't damaged, 11-28k US
tr3buchet
Whew!!
Lavitzzzzzzzzzz
This was thoroughly interesting and now I wish release my inner child and become a blacksmith
PostmodernSemanticQuagmire
Inner child? Oh is that what I call inside-my-head me?
Lythar
I became a welder instead. Fun work. Lots of burns.
TinoFly
There's already a blacksmith. His name is Will Smith
CptRobotNinja
Me too! *goes outside on a warm day* never mind...
Yourcousinmarvinberry
I did it, it's a lot to start but it's really gratifying.
Lisjak
In case you don't know, on history channel there is a show called Forged in Fire and it's awesome. You should check it out.
SeaTurtleSailingThroughSpace
LLAAAAAAAAVVVIIIIIIIIIIITTTZZZZZ
Lavitzzzzzzzzzz
stop reminding me of my death
SeaTurtleSailingThroughSpace
You must learn to let go from this world and move on. Mayfil is no place for such an honorable soul.
Lavitzzzzzzzzzz
When the war ends, let's have a drink in Bale
IPostSwords
I did this. Do not recommend. Many burnt hands
Sifernos
The burns fade. The pieces you create can outlive you. I loved smithing nonferrous metals.I don't regret the burns, cuts or being on fire.
cmontygman
Burnt hands come with dealing with the fire. I still wanna be a blacksmith.
captainVulgar
Just how the hell does one even get into smithing? Is it expensive?
IPostSwords
It is, yeah. At minimum you need a way to grind, a way to heat, and an anvil. I use a belt grinder, gas forge, and an anvil and hammer
captainVulgar
Well it os definitely something im going to look in to! Thanks for responding!
TimurKl
Stupid question, can you make such sword?
IPostSwords
I could, potentially. It'd take a long time, but I do have a crucible ready
TimurKl
And here comes the critical question, how much would it be worth? Thanks for answering btw!
IPostSwords
Given how slowly I work, I'd need to overprice it. But Peter Burt of Dragonheart armor makes them, 3k-5k and up I think
ThePunishersVengefulBrother
Dude. Ove glove. (just a joke!)
IPostSwords
My gloves get pulled into my grinding wheel. It's actually a serious safety hazard
ThePunishersVengefulBrother
Absolutely.
Lavitzzzzzzzzzz
I worked on cars for a few years of my life, hand injuries don't concern me
shorsey69
What cars!? I'm restoring a 79 c10 right now. Hand injuries also don't concern me, I work in a machine shop. Lol
IPostSwords
Fair enough. Well, then I wish you all the best with your hand burning, metal hammering journey!
Lavitzzzzzzzzzz
I have no way to start this journey unfortunately, no one is taking apprentices in my area.
IPostSwords
I never did any apprenticing with anyone. But I did metalworking and engineering in school, which helped with background knowledge
ElbowdeepinElmo
As far as I know you can build a rather simple forge at home and get some tools - read up on the basics and just practise I guess? It's
doogy
Lavitzzzz I would recommend trail and error. A really good read is "The Blacksmith's Craft: A Primer of Tools & Methods by Charles McRaven.
Cheomesh
I did smithing for a bit, but I live in a neighborhood now and I'd probably get my shit pushed in for it.
Lythar
Fuck em, you can make swords, dude.
Cheomesh
Maybe...actually, for me it would be pike heads as I'm getting involved in a 'pike and shot' period group and there are no good ones.
Lythar
Ooh, if they try to complain, just tell them that you're making a "wrought iron fence".
IPostSwords
I saw a bunch of pikemen at a faire the other week. Suddenly want halfarmor and a pike
EvilKam
See, now shit like this deserves fucking upvotes. I wish Imgur had more of this, and less Russian San Andreas Multiplayer.
BangForTheBuck
The graphics have started getting so much better since ethereum mining. Meanwhile I can't find a fucking Radeon anywhere.
pookieeatworld
сука блять
justahumanbeing
What, you dont enjoy peoples screen shots of video games they feel the need to share every fucking day? I agree, excellent post.
Warzone12
Seriously. Why is that even a thing?
Bystandr
Quality OC about something Im interested in? Imgur should have a credit system you could buy into to give authors like this some real $.
IPostSwords
You could always subscribe to my youtube channel, IPostSwords
melekoftd
It's an essay with pictures. Do one yourself.
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melekoftd
No worries mate, timing matters more than content unless you're one of the Imgur-household names.
IPostSwords
Does that make me a household name, or good with timing?
Rifneno
1-Blame usersub. I once spent weeks on a quality post, it got 30 points and died while usersub sent some retard bitching about fat people
TimeAgain
Maybe your content was bad
Rifneno
2-in a movie theater to the FP. I refuse to put that kind of effort into posts again so they can be passed over for blatant shitposting.
Rifneno
3-When I mentioned this before, several other people chimed in and said they had the exact same experience. Spend days or weeks researching
TheBurritoConfederacy
Can confirm. Have made a few researched posts and the response is generally only mild interest/appreciation.
Rifneno
4-a good topic like this one, getting good pics, ect., and losersub promoted shitposts instead, so they too decided not to bother again.
WhereNoMan
Protip: Post to Reddit as well. It's how this site works.
IPostSwords
actually my reddit post got a total of 1 upvote.
nevoreJunkie
Be the change you want to see
whatbuttondoipush
Write what you know, write your passion like OP. Wait, I didn't mean post your My Little Pony collection
nevoreJunkie
I'm sure there'd be an audience for that too
EvilKam
I would, but I know I'm not talented enough to make many meaningful contributions. The last thing this site needs is another shitty editor.
EyesLikeTheSky
Just go on a Russian San Andreas server and take context based screenshots in foreign alphabets, great content for Imgur
EvilKam
Every day we drift further from God's light. XD
nevoreJunkie
I guarantee you know something I don't. I guarantee you can find some interesting pics to go with a brief synopsis.
EvilKam
My meager contributions are in my albums. ;)
nevoreJunkie
That'll do nicely
MarkOfTheCovenant
Man, I browse user sub all the time and I never see that awful shit. Is it a mobile thing? I'm not mad about it, don't get me wrong.
Corona688
If you view by popularity, you're seeing nothing but viral anywya.
EvilKam
I'm living on desktop, but I spend a rather tragic amount of time in usersub, so I'm exposed to lots of it. #nolife
MarkOfTheCovenant
I don't browse the front, user sub is way better
EvilKam
No, usersub is way worse, lol, but we're MUCH more needed there.
MarkOfTheCovenant
It's just less boring to me. Fp gets old quick. At least user sub is always fresh. Garbage, but fresh no less.
Hemispheres
My adult content filter is on, so I don't see any of that stuff either. Maybe yours is on?
MarkOfTheCovenant
Nah way. I must just be hella lucky
SnoweyTurtle
Mines not on and I never see it either.
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