A guide to Urban warfare and why it's so nasty.

Oct 2, 2017 8:06 AM

The Battle of Mosul is over and all Islamic State terrorists have been cleared from the area. Iraq’s second largest city and home to 900,000 people lie in ruins. Mosul joins Aleppo, Raqqa, Grozny, Hue, Stalingrad, Warsaw, and countless other cities destroyed by costly urban combat. The victory at Mosul does not look like a victory at all. Why is urban warfare so bloody? Why do the most well-equipped and powerful militaries fail in cities, and why are cities destroyed to be saved? In this post I’ll explain in layman terms the nature and difficulty of urban combat.

Urban warfare will become increasingly relevant in the 21st century simply because changes in our economy and technology encourages people to move into cities and other densely populated areas. The United Nations estimates that by 2030 more than 60% of the world will live in urban area. In the past, armies could simply avoid unfavorable terrain like cities.

The Battle of Stalingrad is the biggest and bloodiest urban battle in history, and it is a good case study since an abundance of first-hand accounts exist. Diaries and such written by troops on both sides offer a very insightful view into fighting in cities. The German troops bitterly called their defeat Rattenkrieg, ‘rat war’, where the three-dimensional and heavily cluttered environment degraded the ability to conduct large sweeps.

The complaints from German troops in Stalingrad were unsurprising. The terrain allowed Soviet and German troops to interweave, German tanks, artillery and air support couldn’t fire without killing friendly units. Soviet troops lurked everywhere, forcing Germans to blow the shit out of every building where they saw movement. Armoured vehicles couldn’t bring their guns to bear fast enough, and enemies attacked the weaker side/rear armour of tanks because the buildings and narrow streets robbed tanks and other heavy weapons any fire superiority.

Stalingrad didn’t demonstrate a Soviet strength, it demonstrated how the enviroments helped to remove or inhibit the German strength, namely the good training and experience of the Wehrmacht officers, and the coordination between infantry, vehicles, artillery and air support which has previously allowed Germany to defeat the French and the BEF. Armor, artillery and aviation are restricted in their usefulness. Which is why a relatively weak force can fight off technologically superior armies in urban areas because heavy weapons are ineffective in confinement.

January 1994, Some 10,000 Chechen rebels thrashed 38,000 mechanised Russia troops in Grozny. Despite overwhelming technological superiority, the Russian forces suffers a complete breakdown and it’s ‘victory’ over Grozny could be barely described as a victory at all. Badly trained Russia troops used heavy weapons like rockets and even anti-air chain guns on suspected Chechen positions. So much civilians were killed that the neutral population and even pro-Russian rebels turned against the Russian troops. Tank units got lost in the streets of Grozny where many road signs were switched/removed to confuse Russian troops, Once again tanks and IFVs were unable to fire back at enemies hiding on rooftops or flanking their sides, only anti-air guns and large amounts of artillery could solve this issue, contributing to 7,000-10,000 civilian deaths.

The Second Battle of Grozny was much more successful. Russian forces learnt from their mistakes and focused on protecting their vehicles and making infantry units more mobile. Instead of large columns of armored vehicles, Russian troops advanced slowly in small squads, artillery was made to respond rapidly and accurately in case heavy resistance was encountered by infantry.

For a professional military, there are basically two approaches to fighting in cities. The first is room-to-room fighting, first pioneered by SWAT teams and special forces but now also practiced by regular troops. These ‘door-breaching’ attacks usually do not result in too much destruction but they do require accurate reconnaissance, i.e you need to know which room contains enemies, civilians or both. This approach can only be executed in a limited scale because it’s too costly for the attacking side and requires an unrealistic amount of information/intel to pull off. Training requirements are also very high, your average infantry cannot be expected to be as proficient as Spetsnaz troopers or FBI hostage rescue squad

Above: M1 Abrams tank removes a two-story house containing Talibans

The second approach is outright destruction, like the Second battle of Fallujah or Grozny. The city is isolated, as much civilians is evacuated as possible, and maximum firepower is applied to pressure and exhaust the enemy. With 90% of the city population evacuated, Iraqi and U.S forces fired over 5,000 shells at Fallujah and dropped thousands of munitions from aviation forces. Civilians did die and the losses inflicted on the Taliban were not as severe as initially expected, still Fallujah was a success on its own.

U.S 155mm artillery supporting Marines during the 2004 Battle of Fallujah.

The high population density and complexity of cities highlights a weakness particularly from the attacking side. There are traditionally very few weapons that lies between a bullet and a salvo of artillery shells. In recent years, the advancement in electronics has resulted in guided munitions much smaller than their predecessors. The Israeli mini-spike missile weighs only 4kg, intended to destroy a room without bringing down the entire building. U.S 40mm grenades are currently tested with a laser-guidance kit, allowing troops to attack enemies behind cover without having to resort to artillery or Hellfire missiles from helicopters.

Guided munitions are becoming increasingly accurate and compact, allowing the attacking side to strike in confined environments.

Militaries involved in urban combat are also heavily reliant on engineers. The need to construct barriers and traps, and to remove ones constructed by enemies. Knowledge of civil engineering will be critical to military operations in dense urban terrain. We learned the hard way in Iraq and Syria how infrastructure destruction hampers the movement of troops and creates choke-points. Cities means countless opportunities to deny mobility and breathing space, the vast amount of concrete, bricks and steel provides ample raw material for the construction of barricades, covers etc.

Above: Israeli armored bulldozers and combat engineers have been in high demand, used to clear roads from rubble or mines, and to create holes in buildings without resorting to explosives or risking soldiers attempting to breach walls.

Then there’s the presence of civilians, which are not and cannot be completely evacuated in time. If the defending side is nasty like ISIS, they’ll hold civilians as human shields too. Fallujah and Stalingrad saw most of the civilians flee before the onslaught, Berlin and Grozny was a different story. A clash in the mountains of Afghanistan or in the steppes of Russia results in thousands of military casualties but few civilian deaths, Urban warfare can result in more many more civilian deaths, especially when the aforementioned ‘second approach’ is used. 1,500 insurgents were killed at Fallujah, while civilian deaths estimates range from 700 to 2,000. Grozny was bloodier, the Royal Danish Defence College estimates 35,000 civilians killed or wounded in comparison to 14,000 military casualties. Civilian deaths are just about the worst thing that can happen to leaders directing a war, it causes all kinds of heated arguments and outrage from the general public, it turns the local population against the actors involved, and most importantly it is awfully immoral. The high density of civilians highlights the importance of developing small guided munitions and dependable military intelligence.

Side note: Starting in the 1980s, it was often claimed that 90 percent of the victims of modern wars were civilians. These claims include refugees and IDPs (Internally Displaced Persons) as casualties. The proportion of civilian deaths and severe injuries during conflicts since 1980 range from 50% to 74%, according to Sivard, R. L and Echhardt, W.

Above: The Great Mosque of al-Nuri in Mosul, or whats left of it after the Islamic State demolished it. Reconstruction costs for Mosul is estimated to be at $1.5 billion USD.

General William Tecumseh Sherman said war is hell, and urban warfare is the ‘ninth circle’ of hell. What began as a paradox during WW2 became familiar during Vietnam, and urban warfare will only grow in relevance in the 21st century. Cities are destroyed so that one side may occupy them.

Credits to Major J. Spencer, U.S Army infantryman and a scholar at USMA for providing the bulk of this information. Thanks for reading, and check out my gallery for more stuff on military aviation, international politics etc.

Instructions unclear, got dick stuck in city

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Great post @op.. You should try and learn something about the heavily close quartered battle of Rio, which is happening now in Brazil...

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

This is excellent! I love stuff like this with obvious tedious research from someone on the field. Great post OP

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Do you have any info on the siege of Sarajevo? I feel like that may have been relevant to this, although slight differences in action.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

#9 looks like a Nerf toy

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

@OP I think you'd enjoy listening to Jocko podcast. He was a Seal during the battle of Ramadi, talks a lot about his combat experience

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

War is the fucking worst, but I always upvote informative posts. Have your fake internet point!

8 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 1

There's fun, then there is kicking in doors fun!

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Read Marko Kloos' first book of his recent series. Set in a future, science fiction milieu, it's a good representation of urban warfare.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Can you be more specific, I'm def interested

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It's a series called Frontlines, available on Amazon. "Terms of Enlistment" is the first, eight bucks for Kindle. Reasonably accurate.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

The new Fallout looks amazing!

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I hate to be that guy, but: the Taliban were restricted to Afghanistan, not Iraq.

8 years ago | Likes 154 Dislikes 2

Also the plural of Taliban insurgents aren't really "Talibans" as the caption says.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That is why their losses were not as high...duh

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Thank you, I noticed the same miatakes.

8 years ago | Likes 25 Dislikes 0

The irony

8 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 1

I too noticed miatakes

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

"M1 Abrams removes two story building" is my favorite caption ever

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Hell of a post. Kind of the definition of Pyrrhic victories.

8 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 0

a valid point, but mostly irrelevant to victorious occupation forces from a country on the other side of the world

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Good point. Although that thought had occurred to me when I posted that.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

This is why the concept of the "Open City" was developed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_city to avoid a pointless bloody street battle.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

The idea is that armies would fight in the low-population density farmland and wildlands and not retreat into cities if they lose.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Kinda sad.

8 years ago | Likes 29 Dislikes 1

Yeah, didn't Sarajevo used to be called the 'Paris of the East'? My step-dad talked about how beautiful it was before the conflict.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Right? All these once great cities thousands of years old are coming to an end and the loss of life is traumatic.

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

Not only the cities, but the people. Ask any Iraqi above 70 what it was like in the old days and you'll become a historian within minutes

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Urban Warfare will see the proliferation of Hard/Soft-kill Active Protection Systems like the IDF Trophy in the coming years.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Great job. I love phrases like "maximum firepower is applied".

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 3

War is a hell of a drug

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

The most addicting ever.... "lest we grow fond of it"

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I was in Warsaw not long ago, guide was saying how the reconstruction of the city is now internationally known as the best way to rebuild 1/

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

After urban warfare, they did a pretty good job but you could see that it was missing that historical feel most European cities have.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Stalingrad was the costliest battle ever, in or out of cities.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

And I guess it's right that single battle didn't show that the Soviets could win. The battle from there to Berlin did.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

That last paragraph about the Stalingrad is not true, Stalingrad absolutely displayed Russian superiority

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Drive through the city announcing non combatants have x days to evacuate. Then just level the city. You're going to destroy it anyway.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Mosque before destruction: https://img-cdn.advisor.travel/fs1000x800px-Great_Mosque_of_al_Nuri_1.jpg

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Both you and the OP are wrong lol. Yours is the Khalid ibn al-Walid Mosque in Syria, and OP's is the Mosque of The Prophet Jirjis in Mosul.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Well, at least OP's is in Mosul. Not like *cough* sarin tubes *cough*

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Thank you for letting me know, I've never seen that mosque. I guess the photographer named the photo incorrectly.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Is that Osgiliath?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Thanks for sharing. Do you think this type of warfare had paved the way for modern terrorism? Or has terrorism always been like it is now?

8 years ago | Likes 91 Dislikes 1

Modern terrorism requires modern tools. It was almost impossible for one man to inflict such disproportionate damages even 200 years ago.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

As OP said, terrorism has been around since antiqity. Access to technology has asymmetrical warfare, which is what terrorists use.

8 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0

That makes sense. I guess they have the underground community and disenfranchised youth to feed their cause.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

Created*

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Terrorism has always existed, but modern terrorism is dependent on modern communications/media technology and high population density

8 years ago | Likes 106 Dislikes 0

"Modern terrorism" meaning non-state actors, I assume; the traditional definition being "that done by a government".

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Yup, they can't win in open terrain against conventional armies, we have much more freedom to act out there.

8 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 0

Especially from air units; Terrorists do not want to be caught even in the hills by an Apache.

8 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0

Or even a trainer used as a light attack aircraft.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

not really. terrorism just requires the story gets out. people have been committing atrocities and terrorism for as long as man existed

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

you dont need a high pop density either. in fact that doesnt matter. all you need is the ability for what you did to get out and be news.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

The Gaza wars is an (Classic/Tragic/controversial) example of urban warfare in this conditions .

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

[deleted]

[deleted]

8 years ago (deleted Jul 24, 2023 3:13 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

The Viet Cong was mostly a guerrilla force that would occasionally resort to terrorism. And after the Tet Offensive, they basically ceased..

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

[deleted]

[deleted]

8 years ago (deleted Jul 24, 2023 3:12 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

Frankly, an invasion of Iran would be a very quickly won battle that could be fought without major urban warfare. With the lessons of Iraq..

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

...so fresh in mind, the odds are that the subsequent occupation would be well enough managed that little in the way of an insurgency would

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

...to exist, and so the few surviving units were incorporated into the regular NVA units operating in S. Vietnam. I.e. the VC lost.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I cannot speak to the accuracy of the tactical information, I am not a military operator. But I am familiar with the militants and actors1/2

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

2/? involved in modern urban conflicts in the middle east, and I see just enough error to make me question the rest of the content. There

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

3/3 were no Taliban involved at Fallujah, for example.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

OP already admitted to the mistake.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

The first and second battles of Grozny lasted the exact same amount of time and had the exact same outcome.

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

Outcome...debatable but the proportion of Russian losses is definitely lighter according to Reuters and IWPR

8 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 2

Most losses in the 1st were due to the initial attack when no resistance was assumed. There were no armored columns after that.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 3

I agree the latter two weeks of the battle were better executed. But Russians admit to 1,300 killed so the truth is probably a bit higher

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 2

Correct, but I'm using phase one of the first battle to illustrate how they screwed up and changed tactics accordingly

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 2

They didn't screw up - they assumed they wouldn't have to fight at all. When it became clear that there'll be fighting - they started. 1/

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 3

That assumption was where they screwed up.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The initial "armored column" thing wasn't a military assault. It was a replay of the assault on the Parliament in Moscow the year prior 2/

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

so..which modern day army would be most suited for urban combat? I'd say the IDF

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 2

They certainly focus heavily on it, but so do many nations to be fair. In the end, we don't want to find out who's "best" at this bullshit

8 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

don't worry i won't throw tantrums about "who is/had the bestest dick ever". i just want to discuss.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Arguably the IDF, as (despite what some would have you believe), they really do give a shit about civilian casualties. They don't do the

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

whole "evacuate most civilians and then blow it to shit" thing. All Israeli infantry are trained to fight door-to-door, professionally, and

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

They also have the MATADOR shoulder fired missile which can be set to either blast a hole in a wall or destroy the room it's fired into. All

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

what is arguably one of - if not the - best urban combat training centers, which foreign militaries including the US routinely use to train

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

in all, they probably do one of the best jobs at reducing/eliminating unnecessary civilian casualties/random destruction. Oh, and they have

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

almost always with warnings given to civilians in the areas beforehand. Soldiers are taught not to burst into a room firing at everything,

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

they don't tend to rely on heavy artillery strikes. Artillery strikes and air strikes are always precision strikes on limited targets

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

but rather to go around corners and into rooms slowly, assessing the situation before deciding to throw a grenade or use other explosives.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

What kind of hardware should be developed to help armies fight in urban areas then?

8 years ago | Likes 43 Dislikes 0

Are you suggesting we need a further militarisation of police ??

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

What does this have to do with military hardware to use in warfare?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Israel’s Trophy counter defense system is pretty damn good. Stops RPGs from short distances. they’re developing the ability to return fire

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Dog shaped armored drones

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

mask-breaching gas should do it.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Tactics matter as much. Means of making contact with the civilian population, and coordinating with them to separate them from combatants.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

So technology that allows the invading force to liaise with hold-out civilians, and organise their rescue and protection from bombardment.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Nuclear artillery

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

The kind of hardware that the IDF has been getting since the 1st intifada, they have more experience in urban combat than anyone else

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Terminator Squads in tactical dreadnought armor equipped with power fists and storm bolters

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Robot technology has been a pinnacle in ways such as swarms that can clear/recon rooms and buildings with ease and minimal casualties

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Like Treblaine said, hardware isn't always the answer. In fact, many of our guys and gals downrange express frustration at the fact that 1/2

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

the folks making decisions just want to throw more money and more tech at a problem instead of more people, training, and policy support 2/2

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Secular governments and education... oh, hardware? Uh... you see Ivan. Bullet, is friend.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Russians came up with the Terminator tank which, well, terminates threats to their real T-72, T-90, T-14 tanks.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Russians also use their tanks as a mobile artillery platforms now. Grozny showed us that tanks are too vulnerable in cities.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I think the Terminator is supposed to help in cities against RPGs;it's got lots of machine guns and rockets, along with the real tank's APS.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

They always did that, though. They designed tanks with the capability for indirect fire as far back as the 1930s.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

But Syria showed us that when used improperly, tanks are sitting ducks. They even managed to get hit in a T90 because they left the APS off.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Small drones, non-lethal weapons, anything to deal with enemies in cover, sensors that go through walls.

8 years ago | Likes 59 Dislikes 0

Are spies as useful as they seemed to be in ww2 and the cold war? Or is that approach no longer useful?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

HUMINT is just as valuable now as it was 70 years ago, SIGINT only takes you so far in reality. Need reliable info from people within.

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Progress has been made in light and portable intelligence gathering, such as micro-drones. They're working on making automated swarms.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Which sounds both really cool and really terrifying. Swarms of flying insect-like drones that hunt down anyone hiding in buildings o.o

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I think some radar frequencies can penetrate walls and even detect tunnels

8 years ago | Likes 26 Dislikes 0

Usually short range though. Nothing like the new Robocop movie or predator.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Detecting tunnels is one thing. Detecting the difference between civilians huddled in a room and armed soldiers lying in ambush is another.

8 years ago | Likes 28 Dislikes 0

Precision tools for tactical 'n accurate results and mobility .

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Armored infantry and mechs.

8 years ago | Likes 21 Dislikes 3

Bring on the mechs

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Power Armour in Fallout would be lethal, if given the proper electronic protections and countermeasures, and supported by regular infantry.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Meh I think mechs would have the same problem as a tank, there's gonna be a weak point that the enemy can hit when the mech isn't 1/2

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

looking, and until technology drastically improves they still will have problems traversing their gun to where the fire is coming from 2/2

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

DARPA is already developing armored exoskeletons for this. Look up TALOS

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

For a "Heavy armour" role, refitting tanks into "Heavy IFVs" would probably do better than either of those, even in presence of rubble.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I'm only an international relations student, some of the info regarding the tactics may not be accurate. Veterans feel free to correct me

8 years ago | Likes 561 Dislikes 9

[deleted]

[deleted]

8 years ago (deleted Nov 17, 2017 8:16 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

thanks for mentioning it, just learned about it, so tragic

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

One mistake about Stalingrad, civilians were not initially allowed to evacuate. About 400,000 were still in the city when the battle began.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

In Fallujah you had a massive infantry operation (near 10000 strong) to clear the city. After initial intel / artillery / air (1/2)

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

only a big infantry operation can take a city, if not the opposing forces will just move. You need to clear sectors and hold them. (2/2)

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I majored in IR and am in my fourth year in the Army, looks good to me @OP

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Oh hey me too.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Really interesting read +1

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

The largest problem with guerilla forces within a city is that after evacuating 90% of the populace there is alot of food left. One thing 1

7 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

That is difficult is de-entrenching an enemy with plenty of supplies.

7 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Graduating with my M.A. in IR this year, high five!

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Interesting read, opi. Thanks.

8 years ago | Likes 272 Dislikes 2

No bullet for op today. Today...

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Opi good job. Op go to VIP gulag.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I recommend you to document you about the french in Algeria and Indochine. Really nasty, but interested

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Civilian deaths are nowadays above 75 % in contrast to 50 % in WW2 and 25% in WW1. Air raids and Urban Warfare are to blame.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

You can also look at the role morale plays in urban warfare; Tactics such as snipers, and slow troop movement being hugely demoralising

8 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Not to mention battle lines, when there are lines at all, can seem to move mere inches at a time.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Not a veteran, but the tactics regarding reinforcing civilian buildings and moving between buildings using mouse-holing. Interesting stuff!

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

First used by British in 1916 Ireland, mouse-holing is moving from house to house by blowing holes in walls etc instead of using doors.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Wish I had my old Norwegian Field Manual. Lots of interesting info & illustrations on urban warfare showing how vicious it really is.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I remember that old thing. It was scary. And when we trained to defend buildings, we used every bit of it.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Drawings of soldiers using holes in walls, floors & roofs to shoot from above stairwells, beneath beds & inside closets and such sneaky shit

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

This is a great post!!! And a field of studies I'd love to enroll in. What's the usual prerequisite?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

For international relations, or urban warfare?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

IR, with a focus on the realities of war (which tend to be overlooked by most in social study fields)

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Google "international relations degree prerequisites" but example info pages include:

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

There are IR undergrad degrees that just require you to be an undergrad. Examples in next two posts (Imgur probably will show them above.)

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Ay another International Relations student... There are dozens of us!

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

Dozens!

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

With a word like "nasty" in the title, I expected you to go into how disgusting, biologically speaking, urban warfare can get. (cont)

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Fighting in cities means the burial of bodies under rubble and the destruction of sewage infrastructure. Compound this with the many (cont)

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

wounds and little scratches people can suffer in this environment, and yeah... "nasty" is the perfect word for this type of warfare.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Ah, I was political science with emphasis on law, but my IR class was so great. Probably the best ever I've ever had.

8 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 0

My class includes a neo-nazi, two far-right nationalists, two communists and a Bernie supporter. Great banter and roasts.

8 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 1

That sounds like.... A pretty interesting class. Stories?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Sounds like the start of a joke. Take them out to a bar sometime and tell us what happens

8 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

You forgot one thing when it comes to "smarter" weapons. The cost is often disproportionate to a grumpy insurgent with an AK. (1/2)

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Which means that urban warfare is likely to remain just as unappetizing, being costly in resources (but less costly in manpower). (2/2)

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

While it costs more per round, it's cheaper launching 1 bomb from 1plane and know youll hit your target than sending a entire air wing 1/2

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Dropping many dumb bombs causing collateral damage and still possibly missing the target. See Russian barrel bombs casualties. 2/2

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Having just watched Ken Burns's Vietnam, im reminded of the stark contrast of the US blowing the ever loving crap out of the 1/2

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Ho Chi Minh trail. The Veit Cong just repaired it with and tools and dirt. A pretty extreme case of cost imbalance.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Thanks for this. I'm planning an RPG campaign based around urban warfare and this helps me flesh out the actual conflicts.

8 years ago | Likes 21 Dislikes 2

Hey man, im actually in the middle of the climax of a Tabletop involving urban warfare. PM for ideas bruv

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Sounds like a CoD player.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You know, considering how many games accessible to the general public deal with tactics or strategy, and that infrastructure choke points

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

have been common-knowledge since well before Starcraft, I'm wondering why it took military so long to figure it out.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I mean, the thing you do in a traditional siege is you cut off supplies, communications, and access to resources. How different is that?

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

there are no taliban in fallujah

8 years ago | Likes 167 Dislikes 0

Thanks I just checked, they were al-Qaeda and Baathists

8 years ago | Likes 157 Dislikes 2

I figured that's what you meant. I made the same mistake once when I was a fledgling IR student.

8 years ago | Likes 27 Dislikes 0

Question - are you American? And how old are you? Cuz that seems like an odd mistake but I'm guessing it's just my background helping me.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

He's Chinese I think.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I'm Australian, 18

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Ah, that makes way more sense. I'm 31 - the two wars are very distinct in my memory.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

point made nevertheless, good job mate, cheers

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

What is the difference between taliban and al queda? I thought taliban was just another term for them? (Serious)

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Taliban is more an Afghan Group, Al Quaeda is more international that's what I understand at least.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Taliban was a somewhat separate group concentrated in Afghan regions, more like a sub group of AQ. AQ is the larger international network.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

They're completely separate groups, like, they're as different as Hamas and ISIS.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Thanks all for responses

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Taliban is to afghans as the Baath is to iraq or Hamas in lebanon. 'Political' armed movement w hierarchy. AQ has more of a cell structure.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0