DominicGraziano
51367
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I am CIS male, but this subject, especially the dehumanization of trans/non-binary folks angers me greatly. I guess this is my attempt to summarize why being anti-trans baffles me so much. Apologies if I did not get everything right as I'm not an expert, but I do feel compelled to try to fight for my fellow humans.
If you have feedback, i'm open to it.
Forensickle
It isn't messy. Everything gets more complicated once you learn more than a 10 year olds understanding
Lappyrat92
Rather than trying to prove whether or not something is natural, why would we use nature as a moral quantifier in the first place? Cancer is natural but we never complain about altering nature there. Trans people don’t need to be “naturally born” to be worthy of basic respect and dignity. It should just be something people do for one another by default.
ElbowDeepInAGoblin
Note that 1.7% of the roughly eight billion people on this planet is not a fringe amount of people. Bad faith actors (of which OP is -not- one, to be clear) cite percentages as a trivializing tactic. 'Why cater to 1% of people??' hits different psychologically than 'Why cater to one-hundred million people?' (Also note that some people are fooled by that very tactic. They heard '1%' and think there's like one small village of transfolk out there. They may be teachable via math.)
trigaranus
Just to put the "intersex" aspect of those 1.7% into some perspective: not all deviations from the standard XX/XY scheme are "intersex" in the commonly understood sense of affecting gender identity. If you're interested, this is a more in-depth read regarding that statistic: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/
AeanaeA
One important detail I’ll add: From a biology perspective, 0.6% is still pretty damn common. Compare to Parkinson’s, for example, a disease that most people have heard of and believe in…that also affects less than 1% of the population. Or the 1-2% of people with red hair, when most folks reading this know multiple people with red hair. There ARE rare conditions, but trans and NB people are common enough that everyone has probably met, seen, or interacted with several.
QueenOfTheFey
FR. I have a condition that less than 100 people in all of North America have ever been diagnosed, and my doctor became the expert in western Canada simply by virtue of ME. Thats rare. And I STILL deserved treatment and respect about it. 1% is SO MANY PEOPLE
Ssemo
Forrest Valkai did a perhaps too thorough video on how messy it really is. It’s 100% worth the listen to everyone out there. https://youtu.be/nVQplt7Chos?si=qosxUA6ygftBQdTl
mixiekins
Ah, yes! A big one people overlook is gynecomastia, my dad actually had it and when he went into the Marines they sliced em right out of him because if he got smacked with the butt of a rifle in the moobie he'd double over just as bad as a kick to the nads. It was purely for practical purposes, but after the fact he reflected on how much it helped him feel more like himself. My husband has the condition as well, but the cost is excessive so he just deals with his image being what it is.
DamnThursdays
I often throw out this gem when people get on the "tHeRe ArE oNlY tWo GeNdErS" line
> There's actually a lot of intersex people that wouldn't fit that binary. A rate of about 2% or 1 in 50. Do you acknowledge the existence of people born with intersex conditions?
Once they acknowledge that intersex can happen physically I follow up with:
> If it can happen physically, why do you deny that it can happen mentally? The brain is physical after all.
I know more than they do, so it ends quick after.
wandergirl
Turner's Syndrome checking in! I consider myself fully female, but lots of people with Turner's consider themselves intersex. The short version is I needed store bought hormones to go through puberty.
professorcostello
Intersex person here to say, it is not "offering gender-affirming care" to impose sex change surgeries on infants who have no ability to withhold consent. That's the "standard of care" for intersex tots today. It's just imposing a binary via surgical violence. Just because some people want those same surgeries to affirm their gender doesn't make them ok to force on children who don't consent. Intersex people and endosex trans people all deserve to make their own decisions about their own bodies.
QueenOfTheFey
100% agree. Barring life saving surgeries, it should be left until the kid is able to voice their own identities and body preferences.
DominicGraziano
Yes! Love that.
MeowstophelesTheeCatMonster
OH MEOW GOD, YOU ARE INTERSEX TOO?! Really really? =^;3;^= Would you pretty please be our friend? We have been looking fur other intersex individuals fur so very long! We have so many trans friends but we've only ever met one other truly intersex individual! -Side note, we're happy our parents decided not to "fix" us after being born, we are sorry others were not as lucky as us.
Allrighty
If anything that further highlights the hypocrisy of the system, doesn't it? No gender-affirming care for children, they can't consent! Ah, let me just... correct God's little mistake there...
Anfalicious
Anti-trans is just about the fascism. They are one of the easiest "others" to create. If it wasn't for the fascism, almost no one would care, and those that did would be the weirdos.
Skywatcher16
they are the weirdos regardless.
Anfalicious
Right? These people are obsessed with thinking about the genitals of children and people are like "yeah nah that's not weird"
Pelican3
blaghart
Meanwhile, in Scotland, non-binary, intersex, and bisexual people apparently don't exist, according to their courts.
ElbowDeepInAGoblin
@OP "...experienced gender, rather than their physical one." -- To clarify, there is only experienced gender. Gender is a sociocultural construct. The physical suite of dimorphic traits is sex. The two not being synonymous is how and why transfolk and androgynes ('non-binary'; I just don't favor that term much) exist in the first place. And per a recent executive order, everyone's non-binary ('androgynous'; I'm sometimes inconsistent) anyway. It's funny when bigots are accidentally supportive.
DominicGraziano
We're all female now baby! But point taken on your first statement, I think what I mean is experienced gender vs. physical sex. Terminology...ugh
MatrimBloodyCauthon
Love this, unfortunately people think life is unbelievably simple, before I cut off my conservative friend he was about to use a really dumb metaphor to explain why trans people couldn't exist. This would go over his head.
Allrighty
Would you sate my morbid curiosity regarding the metaphor?
AnythingMuchShorter
They really get worked up about it for no reason too. If you're not an asshole it doesn't cause any problems. I've lived in big cities most of my life, and sometimes you see someone who is probably trans, or non-binary or something, it's never caused me a problem in the slightest. It really only matters if you're trying to get romantically/sexually involved with them, and hopefully in that case you can talk to them and manage to understand about the details.
LittleAzie
Some confusion between sex and gender, as seen in this one sentence "...individual's experienced gender, rather than their physical one." Should be '... rather than their physical sex.' Its very important we remember to use the right terms.
DominicGraziano
Yup, my bad. Agreed
loxiabun
💜🏳️⚧️
IGotMyDreamJobProgrammingGames
It's just evil that people will vilify an entire group because they are too stupid to look up if there is actual biological reasons for someone being trans and instead they just go with the baseless assumption that they are making it up. Fucking scum.
Apeofdeath
So 28 sexes, cool
KiyaSeraphia
28 so far! Willing to bet there's far more bespoke combinations out there, reinforcing the point.
TNSCLuotaMEa4fVN
Straight 79 y/o Granddad here. You all deserve respect. You are all valid. Virtual hug to each of you!
psuedon
looks good - check you spelling for silly errors
theskepticinme
Neither sex nor gender is binary. Also while the terms coincide for the majority of the population, sex and gender are not interchangeable. I don’t think this infographic does a good job of making that distinction
DominicGraziano
Fair. I'm certainly not an expert.
lifeisadadjoke
A zoo prof of mine once said "You want exact? Try math. Biology is about distributions, from populations down to traits and further down to DNA." In most chemistry, you strive for those very high yields from reactions. In org chem, you're usually happy to get 60%". Life is messy!!
rbudrick
A math professor would never call math exact.
dieselfury
Yeah, applied math is always a compromise of precision
Thehungrybunn
Ill always remember that one time in ochem lab where i got a 30% yield. It was humbling
FrolickingFrolicking
“Messy” is kind of an imposed human idea, distributions and variance, scales, is more accurate I’d say.
lifeisadadjoke
Tying back to the subject line to bring it full circle. I think it's pretty obvious I know what the hell I'm talking about.
PastureofMuppets
Yes, you are knowledgeable but your response comment is kind of intense. Other people can add to the conversation and it isnt a personal attack on you.
mercyPandaRunner
True. You're in the wrong field in Biology if you expect a "yes" or "no" for an answer. There is a reason most "gender critical" scientists are everything except biologists.
My human-zoo prof, an old developemental biologist due to retire the next year, told us:
"For this course, we will use the simplification of anatomically male and anatomically female. The current state of research suggests that it is really much more complicated than that, but that would burst the scope of a bachelors >
mercyPandaRunner
degree. Let me just tell you, if you decide to specialize in that direction, the your field might become really exciting in the coming years."
That must have been 2018-ish.
Whenever i am asked: "So, you're a biologist. What do you say how many sexes there are?" I'm always hit with a bit of a problem. It can be hard to explain to someone that "male" and "female" aren't invalid biological categories, but that there is no formula that tells you yes or no. It's like trying to explain to someone>
mercyPandaRunner
that sky blue and ocean blue are entirely separate colours in Italian, while in Vietnamese, green and blue are the same colour and in old greek, yellow and green where the same, but that they are all right about it. That you might perceive colours in accordance with the colour categories your culture defined, but that the spectrum of light is not separated into colours at all.
If you talk to someone who wants to believe that "science is woke" or something, you sound like you're floundering>
mercyPandaRunner
around. Because they think "science" is like some kind of scripture that tells you clear truths. That the truth in Biology is more often than not very fuzzy does not compute.
elijohud
This is informative and interesting. Can you elaborate on these anatomical traits in subcortical regions? What research is this claim based on? I've worked in neuroimaging for a few years so I'd be interested in reviewing this and passing it along if it holds water. Also, to hell with bigots.
DominicGraziano
The anecdote that really got me was that m2f trans folks don't report feeling "phantom penis syndrome" which is something cis men who lost it due to injury or cancer do often report. Fascinating!
DominicGraziano
You can start here, but there's several sources for this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/
elijohud
Thank you. The reference to cortical volumes with hemispheric specificity is very interesting
emptyother
Biology might be messy, but a bit of kindness should be simple.
DominicGraziano
Agreed!
ps238principal
There's a reason that the Olympics stopped trying to use chromosome testing for athletes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_verification_in_sports#Chromosome_testing
ArchMagos
Not fun fact about gender and the Olympics, skeet shooting was a mixed event until 1996, that year there was only a men's skeet shooting competition. In 1992 a Chinese woman won gold in it. 2000 saw the addition of women's skeet shooting, but the event was designed such that the women always shot fewer skeet. This is an example of why separate leagues are often more about protecting mediocre men's feelings than they are about "fairness".
Rage3
The majority of leagues aren't for "protecting mediocre men". It's fairness for physical, and promote women participation for most others
LittleAzie
This may be true now for more physical sports, but the separation began in things such as the Olympics to protect men because they were losing to women. Or for some it was always a boys' club and they wanted to keep it that way. A lot of the rhetoric of 'protecting women' was used for this, just the same way anti-trans individuals are using it now.
Rage3
I mean, aren't almost all world records in the Olympics (which is 99% physical sports?) held by men? I don't think many women would want to compete in that environment, atleast not the majority.
Enoan
And of course women's chess. Women's leagues are created only once men risk losing to women.
Imaintainnothing
any woman is free to enter any chess tournament; woman tournaments exist so as to encourage more woman to play without feeling overwhelmed by the number of men. The skeet thing is disgraceful.
Allrighty
It's a good reminder that separate spaces are not inherently good or bad; we must examine their purpose.
SpriggsyUK
Yeah it’s sadly needed because of the men, a lot of old misogynists in chess. Look at the stupidity of Anna Rudolf being accused of somehow having a chess engine in her lip balm in 2007.
Yes chess is only gendered in a way to promote the women’s game and give them a comfortable step to main events but the old guard certainly try to keep them in just those events with the dumb shit mentioned above.
But the guys do it to each other too, never forget the anal beads 🤣
Asadsadsadclown
The limp balm thing is on par for insane cheating claims across the board. Those crusty old fucks are absolutely misogynists but we live in a post Hans Neimann butt plug cheating scandal world. They will claim anything is cheating and if they can't figure it out they will claim the impossible.
johndoejersey05
rulerofthedingdongs
Making a copy of this for sex ed class. The curriculum focuses on gender, and we have a lot of black and white, male or female thinkers at age 14. This should spark some discussion.
Shitzamboni
Name checks out AND it's a good idea. Double whammy.
DominicGraziano
Way more comprehensive than mine, love it!
BarmyCranberry
I feel yours is better for a more broad audience. The picture in the comment I would show people with a scientific background (biologics). Both are pretty cool.
genericgelatine
I like these and understand the purpose they serve. But when infographics such as these are not quickly available to help us understand, we can simply respect people’s personal autonomy
Unfortunate500
The 3rd point is dangerous due to the popularity of eugenics. The claim that you can measure "trans" implies that you can develop a test for it...a test that someone could fail.
You are also attempting to extrapolate public policy based on a tiny study the aim of which was only tangentially related to your point.
Tread carefully.
FuckGlitter
There was decades of medical history that the nazis burned. Trust me the government already knows this and likely has tried to make tests.
FacelessAce
That's a fair concern. I was honestly more concerned that if transphobes found the "transgender part of the brain" they may just try to "correct" that part, which is horrifying.
Imustntrunaway
They've already tried. Same for homosexuals, and all sorts of others. It doesn't work, no amount of electroshock 'therapy', conversion camps, physical restraints works. Our understanding of how the brain works just isn't there, and there are significant ethical concerns with the notion of changing someones brain to better suit the whims of others even if it was something we could do with our limited understanding. Gender affirming care is the kinder, more ethical solution.
FacelessAce
I can not stress this enough: THEY WILL NEVER QUIT TRYING. This isn't me arguing for the virtues of lobotomy, I am reminding you that transphobes/homophobes/bigots don't want the ethical solution, they want the solution that makes people they don't want to exist stop existing. If they have any reason to believe that they can alter someone's brain to do that, they will, and call every atrocity they commit along the way, "A noble sacrifice for the greater good." That is my point.
Imustntrunaway
Even not knowing if there's actually a way to prevent trans people from existing or not, they are still trying. A lack of knowledge isn't stopping terrible people from doing whatever they want, the only thing that will stop them is regular decent folks putting these regressives in their place and relegating their backwards thinking to the history books.
JacaByte
Yeah I'm always skeptical whenever somebody says they've found a link between some structure in the brain and gender identity/sexual orientation.
I have found (anecdotally) that there can be a link between sexuality and gender identity. Ace people who identity as trans (hi that's me) tend to have a much weaker attachment to their gender identity than their allosexual counterparts, so it's much harder for them to identify their transness. (allosexual is anybody who experiences sexual attraction)
LittleAzie
I often wonder if we also keep ignoring socialization when we are trying to figure out gender identity as well (we know this is not the case for sexual orientation so much). Since culturally, there is still so much separation between boy and girl activities in early life, that it also plays a large role in developing gender in a child's mind. Not saying it is all learned, but this certainly does create conflict when the concept of gender and sex is learned. 1/2
LittleAzie
2/2 This is not to say that nature doesn't play a big role in it either. I think its a bit of both nature and nurture. Would love to see if a scientific/sociological study was done to help our understanding of all of this (or perhaps there is one and I just missed it).
JacaByte
I don't know, I always got along better with the girls than the boys when I was a child, I think I would have been happier if I had the option to socialize as a girl. Being trans can be hard to pin down for some.
LittleAzie
I had mixed experiences with both sex when I was a child, but I gravitated more to the girl's side of play as well. I felt happier playing house, dress up, and getting make up put on than the more sports play of the boys (though still loved that too). When you start to look into the sociological definition of socialization, you start to realize that the reinforcement was more towards the female gender role in this case. Not saying that is what made me trans, just think it had an effect.
Allrighty
Interesting. I think gender and sexuality are definitely more complex than they are often made out to be. The labels we have are only attempts to categorise the intersections of many dimensions, many of which are mutable.
Greypuppy
Another bit of anecdotal evidence, but my experience is the opposite and lines up with your theory! While you are ace with little connection to your trans identity, I'm bi and have a huge connection to it. I experience attraction decently strongly in addition.
QueenOfTheFey
Also ace, and also no real attachment to my gender. Except from a civil rights sort of thing.
DominicGraziano
Thanks for this! My hope was more to explain that this isn't something purely psychological as it is often portrayed.
professorcostello
This is exactly what has happened to intersex folks. When intersex genetic conditions run in families in the US today, those pregnancies are regularly tested for and aborted.
Unfortunate500
You are probably headed down a slippery slope of pointless discussion if you need this chart, sadly. Typical dehumanizing pathway: psych vs physical, disease vs not disease, real vs imaginary.
Saying "you can see it on a scan" is a claim of "real".
You are better served by arguments that stand more on the nature of human rights and less on potentially physically measurable metrics.
You don't have to meet them at the bottom :)
DominicGraziano
I hear ya. The bottom is getting pretty big... Just want to protect humans
Imustntrunaway
I think I've read similar, and my own anectotes may prove this accurate; tldr mom had lots of thyroid issues during her pregnancy with me and now I'm one of the people at the bottom of your chart. And if that's truly the case and we become better at recognizing this, prof.costello might be right about trans kids being aborted. That's a failing of society to embrace folks though, not a fault of the science.
DominicGraziano
If we can normalize transition the way we've normalized being intersex and the treatments (while improving consent)... The benefit of better understanding the biology of being trans is that it can no longer be seen as some mental disorder which is a gateway to putting them into a class of people with less rights.
Autittuderp
Saved and will be shared. People fear what they don't understand and bc they lack emotional intelligence they hate what they fear. Being able to show data that supports trans and NB folks is always good to have on hand.
dbox
Saved an already shared
Jagadid
Why the nazis burned the center for sexology
beez428
Absolutely true. But it's also true that the cunts who need to see this sort of thing a. Wouldn't change a thing about their behavior b. Have already seen it and haven't changed a thing about their behavior.
Autittuderp
It's about how the info is presented. Understanding ppls brains executive function shuts down when they are feeling criticized or being shamed...we can use other tactics. Questions with compassion are generally the best way. The mistake we make is thinking we can engage someone's compassion without giving them the same.
Omnimorph2112
Probably because they don't want to read. The "research" they cut to do is either some troglodyte giving them misinformed soundbites, or some sensationalised false news story.
beez428
I could be wrong, but I disagree. I think the true state(s) of things has been illustrated time and again 4 inches in front of their fat, stupid faces and they still seethe and deny and seek to harm.
Xenarion
Wait, transgender isn't a sex trait, it's a social trait. Gender isn't sex, it's a social construct.
wontondisregard
There's an interplay between biology, phenotype and society that make up the typical construct of gender norms within a society. But OP is pointing out that "typical" and the spectrum of biology/phenotype don't mix well. Basically, you're not wrong, but that's kind of an oversimplification.
obviouslyrob
Gender identity has aspects of social, psychological, as well as biological bases.
DominicGraziano
Being transgender has been credibly linked to certain physical traits in the brain. That said, those to have the condition crave physical change in order to feel authentic which makes it more than purely social imo.
Xenarion
First part, that sounds contrary to what I read. To quote my transgender coworker: "It's scientifically proven that there's no such thing as a male or female brain."
Unless you're talking about brainwaves and such, but that's a lot more acquired than innate.
As for the second part, fair, but I think it's more an extension of the social aspect, and mainly of the social association of sex and gender. The post makes it sounds like it's genetic, which it's not.
BloatedGuppy
It's not about "male brains" and "female brains", but speculatively about hormonal exposure in the womb. Identical twins show a much higher rate of a shared trans identity than fraternal twins. Gender is a social construct...there is credible evidence to support a hypothesis that gender *identity*, and the brain/body map, has a biological origin. Not that it should matter...bodily autonomy should be more than sufficient.
DominicGraziano
Go check for yourself, there's certain extremely small but still measurable differences.
LoudBirb
Transgender can be about sex, as well, though not entirely so. That's why the operations and hormone treatments happen. Both of those are key components of biological sex. Chromosomes are the third key component, and those can also be messy and complicated.
It is possible for a trans man to be someone with an XY chromosome pair but with a deactivated SRY gene, which would make him naturally present as female. The operations/hormones would transition his appearance to match his chromosomes.
Xenarion
I... guess? I wouldn't have considered surgery as a "sex trait", especially in the way the graph makes it look like it's a genetic thing, when it's not.
As for your paragraph, yeah that's possible, but that's in the Intersex category, as shown above.
LoudBirb
Biological sex has tons of factors to it, not just genetics. The graph is only discussing the genetic aspects of it, though, yeah. It's simplified, as that's better for clear and consice rhetoric.
As a random commenter, however, I'm not bound to keep my messaging neat and simple, and the nitty gritty of human sexuality is extremely interesting.
Xenarion
Yeah, the "gender affirming care is allowed for cisgender but not transgender people" point is good, but it could have been made in a much less misleading way.
LoudBirb
Well... that is true, but I was actually operating in an even more grey area than that. Chromosomal sex isn't anywhere near as simple as XX vs XY. That's high school biology.
It's very difficult to label someone who's XY but with a deactivated SRY gene as biologically male or female (hence why "intersex" exists in the first place). Because their chromosomal pair is traditionally male, but in nearly every other biological way, they're female.
They can even get pregnant.
obviouslyrob
or0b0ur0s
Context is King, as they say. Edge case handling is all find and good... if what you're talking about is a software input or a manufacturing line defect. When it's a human life, though...
shehdbeuebw738373
I like using the term "stress case." Instead of "it won't happen, ignore it" it's "are we up to the task to handle this case?" Plays to ego.
egix
i genuinely don't wanna be the bad guy, but isn't our life playing in the one percent? Thus the 1 percent is subjectively much bigger.
but looking at society the percentage of lgbtq+ is indeed a small percentage. let me make myself clear again. EVERYBODY has a place here.
egix
just wanna say those two don't compare well
ArdentNature
I think so too.
UlisesAlvarez
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1Z3JzdTlpeXBtMW04OHViaWxtNzYzNGVianR3bmdlMmxxc2R4c2JjcyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/V0IdVIIW1y5d6/200w.webp
magicrhombus
Astronomers and astrophysicists divide (visible) matter into three categories. Hydrogen, Helium, and Metal. Oxygen? That's metal. Nitrogen? Metal. Carbon? Also metal. What I'm getting at here is that trans/intersex/non-binary people are metal as hell.
rrlyrae
only if they are inside stars. but otherwise your points are valid - especially about people.
nichfra
No just in general when looking at large aggregations of matter. Whole galaxies or nebulas have metallicity
Clockworkdancerobot
Clockworkdancerobot
stevelepastis
What's this from?
Togzilla
Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
stevelepastis
Thank you!
SoraHjort
To add onto Togzilla's comment, it's the BBC series of it from the 80s, which is vastly superior to the movie we got in the 00s. There is some high brow discourse on whether the original bbc radio drama, the bbc tv series, or the books are the best version. Though most do agree the 2005 movie isn't it.
umpbumpfizz
The radio drama is still my favorite.
stevelepastis
Gotcha, thanks!
Phant0m5
So as funny as this is, the math does not check out. It is entirely possible to have a smaller infinity within a larger one. One tenth of infinity is still infinity, but your value at any given point will just be one tenth of where it would be with an undivided infinity. So assuming an infinite universe, you can still have infinite inhabited planets without inhabiting every planet. You would just say "one in X planets is inhabited" or write it as a percentage.
Jyzzzy
Then again, math would never check out as physics would not allow an "infinite" universe. Just because human mind can't comprehend it doesn't make it infinite.
Nostradamuswaswrong
https://imgur.com/1Xz5KxG.gifv
Zamm005
Something something, can I book a room for next weekend at the Hilbert please?
dotslashsandwich
And thus we conclude it’s infinitely populated.
aslum
The joke is that the math is obviously flawed as made evident by the fact that you can see other people. Or are you just a figment?
Phant0m5
I am aware of what the joke is, that's why I prefaced the statement with "as funny as this is". But it would have been even funnier with verifiable math, because they were pretty close to reality. We are not figments of each other's imagination, but we ARE a rounding error, so statistically we do not exist.
aslum
If the math had been accurate the joke wouldn't work because what makes it funny is the mathematical conclusion being at odds with observable reality.
aslum
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.
aslum
I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
gonzar09
Don't panic, and don't forget your towel.
muffmunchies
There's a whole lot of people who don't comprehend how big our own world of humanity is, how vastly diverse & variable human existence/experiences can be. Many people seem to think we essentially have vastly the same makings & ideas with only minor variables that make individualism then a very small minority of those have the extreme differences that are either morally condemnable or admirable but never just people trying to live their lives freely. Detrimental simplicity is a drug many crave
aslum
I'ma give you an upvote, but I wonder if you've read H2G2 (which is where the quote, as wells as the image it's a reply to, is from). Sometimes folk just need a little humour, and Douglas Adams was great at that.
muffmunchies
Thanks, I've seen the movie but I struggle with books because of my brand of neurodivergence so there's very few books I've gotten through though I am building a curiosity for House of Leaves because of its non-linear style particularly. Otherwise I read articles and internet stuffs but the stillness of text on paper & letter walls my brain struggles to commit attention to. Always love good humor though!