HBH91
370279
10882
2265
The inconvenient truth about ISIS
The last time i posted a comment about ISIS, i got downvoted and you guys did not like what i had to say.
Hear me out this time, and if you still disagree feel free to downvote me to oblivion.
Who exactly is ISIS and where did they come from?
The Iraq War
ISIS is entirely a creation of the United States’ behavior in Iraq.
When the U.S. first invaded Iraq, it blew the country apart. By destroying the existing government, toppling Saddam Hussein, and destroying the infrastructure, the U.S. left behind a power vacuum that would never have existed under Hussein.
The impact caused by the actions of the United States is a historical fact that media just won’t discuss.
This has to do with U.S. action in the region, which destroyed the infrastructure, which destroyed Iraq society, which destroyed the Iraqi government, while there were a lot of people who weren’t “as happy as larks” while living under Saddam Hussein, they also weren’t at odds with Hussein in the same way they were with the government established by the U.S.
The militant group ISIS was formed as a small insurgent group in Iraq in 2006. While they tried to create problems for the U.S. military, they had no money and no real ability to recruit.
The Syrian Civil War
It wasn’t until 2009 that ISIS shifted its focus from Iraq, where it was largely unsuccessful in developing a foothold, and focused on the civil war in Syria.
While in Syria, ISIS still struggled to gain a foothold. This is attributed to the fact that two larger groups fighting against President Bashar al-Assad were overpowering them: al-Nusra Front – or al-Qaeda – and the Free Syrian Army.
Then, came a pivotal moment that most Americans aren’t even aware of. In June 2013, a Northern General for the Free Syrian Army spoke out on Al Jazeera Qatar and stated that if international forces did not send weapons, the rebels attempting to overthrow Syrian president Bashar al-Assad would lose their war within a month.
The U.S. was covertly funding Syrian rebels. Although Obama acted as if he was proceeding with caution, politicians such as Senator John McCain demanded action.
Within a matter of weeks of the Syrian general making his plea for international help, the U.S., the Saudis, Jordan, Qatar, Turkey and Israel began providing weapons, training and money to so-called rebel groups like the Free Syrian Army.
In September 2013, American media outlets began reporting that weapons were being given to Syrian rebels. CNN reported that while the weapons are not “American-made,” they were “funded and organized by the CIA.”
However, things began to fall apart when less than one year after the U.S. supplied Syrian “freedom fighters” with weapons, those weapons ended up in the hands of ISIS fighters.
Those ISIS fighters came from the group McCain insisted would help the U.S. overthrow Assad: the Free Syrian Army. The army was not only sending the Islamic State weapons, it was also sending them fighters.
It wasn’t until June 2014 that ISIS went from being a “no-name group in Syria” to a group that was “heavily armed and trained by U.S. and Coalition Special Forces.” This revitalized group made a dramatic entrance by crossing back over the Syrian border into Iraq and capturing Mosul and much of the northern part of the country.
One of the most important facts that mainstream media ignores time and time again is that ISIS was able to grow so fast, because of all the U.S. military equipment they were able to seize – equipment that the US military left in Iraq. Truckloads of Humvees, tanks and weaponry that instead of taking or destroying, the U.S. government simply decided to leave behind.
However, even when the U.S. government became aware that ISIS fighters were capturing U.S. equipment, it did nothing. The lack of action attributed to the fact that ISIS fighters were taking the equipment back into Syria to continue fighting Assad, which was what the U.S. government wanted.
How is it that the United States, with all of its intelligence capabilities, didn’t know this threat was coming? How many billions did the US spend, maybe a hundred billion on total intelligence community budge over the year? How did they have no idea?”
The U.S. did know who ISIS was, but the so-called Islamic State was doing what the Obama administration wanted.
The ISIS fighters continued to do what the Obama administration wanted, and in late summer 2014, they were labeled the new boogeyman in the war on terror.
Over the past few months, the U.S. government, who acted like they had never even heard of ISIS, suddenly, with the help of media has turned the Islamic State into the new focus of the war on terror. Now, as ISIS has continued its rise, recruitment is exploding and the group is becoming stunningly wealthy.
ISIS controlled oil fields
ISIS makes $2 million a day off of selling oil, and the United States’ response, of “undercutting the competition” by blowing up oil fields makes no sense. Why is the U.S., which is known for sanctioning anything that moves, when it’s angry, is not placing sanctions on the banks or the oil companies that are involved?
In addition to those questions, Americans should also be asking, Why is the U.S. sending $500 million to the Free Syrian Army to fight ISIS when the FSA is one of the biggest suppliers of fighters and weapons to ISIS? and Why is the US sending new and more powerful weapons to the FSA like anti-aircraft missiles – weapons that we know will be in the hands of ISIS?
The mainstream media will say that ISIS is the “creation of American inaction,” the reality is that they are the “product of direct action.”
This direct action started with “the action of creating a power vacuum in Iraq” and manifested into the “arming violent Jihadists, hoping they would overthrow a leader in a neighboring Middle Eastern country.”
The U.S. government is a victim of its own insane policies, due to the fact that it is very good at blowing things up, but really bad at putting them back together.
It isn’t the U.S. government being held hostage by crazy policies; rather it is the American people.
Thank you for reading.
Evillink1
LOL...no.
ChadOWan
I would say the Kurds in Iraq were a little bit worse off than being less than "happy as larks"
jgz32610
some sources would be beneficial to the credibility of this storyline
TheManWhoSteppedIntoYesterday
Before the Americans entered Iraq, it used to rain gumdrops and everybody would cry candy tears.
REALLYREALLYRIDICULOUSLYGOODLOOKINGMALEMODEL
Hey guys, if you want to learn more, Frontline on PBS has a really good documentary called "the rise of isis" free to watch on their website
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
Much better than OP's bullshit.
manchurianwok
Frontline is badass
Merlinspants77
.
DoctorGoldfish
+1
sidfromtoystory
the risis
Merlinspants77
Thank you.
Wakolize
Thank you
clipartist
Reply to remember...cheers
BlondePandaMonium
.
Pootytoots
.
sydneygirl
thank you, watching it now
notsogoodatusernames
Like some other people here have done, .
trustmeimasuperhero
.
kellyface
Lol it says none of this babble
gratuitousarp
.
Caremono
Ill check later, thanks
cepacolusmaximus
Reply to remember. I like it.
twofortuesdays
i should watch this
wilhelmsen
Thank you
AntonioStark
Will definitely watch this. Thanks. This seems to be a repeat of the creation of Al-Queda.
FilmMagician
Why do they have flags with dildos and butt plugs?
Basementcat
IKR!
Squanto229
Reference game on point
FilmMagician
A thank yuo
afunnyusernameperiod
Asking the real question here
OtherBarryDylan
Asking the right questions, i see.
NotNowChiefImInTheFuckinZone
I don't know but it offends me greatly
scaperTM
dude :)
FilmMagician
(´ڡ`ლ)
blagon
"ISIS is entirely a creation of the United States’ behavior in Iraq." <- stopped reading right there
AReallySatisfyingPoo
ISIS is NOT "entirely a creation" of U.S. actions. Pressure to reestablish the Caliphate (ISIS's main goal) has been around for CENTURIES
Pikkupanda
And centuries is NOT an exaggeration.
TheIncredibleTheMysteriousDisappearingCreampieBrothers
Yes, their goal always existed. I think what OP saying is they wouldn't proceed this far towards their goal without US's actions.
AReallySatisfyingPoo
Then OP shouldn't have said "ISIS is entirely a creation of the United States’ behavior in Iraq."
TheIncredibleTheMysteriousDisappearingCreampieBrothers
Yeah, that first sentence is a bad summary by OP.He tries to say ISIS already existed but became this strong because of US' actions in Iraq.
TheIncredibleTheMysteriousDisappearingCreampieBrothers
Yeah, that first sentence is a bad summary by OP.He tries to say ISIS already existed but became this strong because of US' actions in Iraq.
MalcadorTheHero
Oversimplified bullshit.
PainisMoogle
A geopolitical issue with only one cause! That makes sense...
PainisMoogle
You earn your down vote Op, not because you aren't partially correct, but because geopolitics is never cut and dry.
CasualBoulder
Can we at least agree to call them Daesh and not Isis?
Volreed
They have stone age mentality but picked up an English name. Give me a fucking break. It's all lies to shape what u think through propaganda
irtaylor
i know, it messed up Archer for me too.
NatiLite
I'm only vaguely aware that those were their origins, but I assume it involves more than just them now.
CasualBoulder
It's more about not giving them credit as a "state." They also don't like the name so that's a plus.
TheOneBearded
I think we can agree to call them Dildos. Monsters don't deserve a rightful name.
Dracco
how about we call them monsters! Dildos actually bring joy to some people, unlike monsters.
amras0000
I agree; dehumanizing enemies of our respective govt and world views is a wonderful tactic that has no negative consequences.
scabab
Yeah but it helps when you have to refer to them...
XequR
why? who cares what we call those retards?
CasualBoulder
Calling them ISIS lends them indirect support
XequR
how?
CasualBoulder
Imagine your child renames themselves Hitler in rebellion. You still call them by their actual name, not the one they give themselves.
revcleo
they like to be called isis or IS as it gives them legitimacy in their eyes. They don't like being called daesh.
XequR
oh okay makes sense
pashmatatoe
Is it just me or did anyone else notice that this is under the milf subreddit?
okhi
I think Imgur mobile suffers from a bug that gives some posts a (source), indicating it's from Reddit. While in fact this isn't true 1/2
okhi
Since from browser it's uploaded by an Imgurian. Either way, because the post doesn't actually exist on Reddit I guess it gets fucky.
Cakes1234
I'm on mobile and yes
TheHonestButBadlyOpinionated
Nope but now I know what I'm doing for the next 20 min or so.
astropapi1
Huh?
MMAgCh
Militants I'd Like to Fucking end.
th3p0x
Milfe. It's French.
ImNotRelevent
This
smule
....motherfuckers....
IronCore
No, and I'm not really sure how to see that. I don't really do the Reddit thing. Teach me?
jackbos
So sick of this logical flaw, because it places blame wherever you like. You could follow it back as far as you want, too. (1/2)
jackbos
(2/2) Blame Islam for the Iraq war because of 9/11. No wait, blame Israel because 9/11 is a result of Palestine. No wait, blame Hitler...
FranchToast
Love all the sources...love a good isis article that doesnt even mention the kurds
MajorLeagueFister
But. No. That's not... no. It's not right at... NO!
SomethingHorriblyInappropriate
And I'm sure you'll be happy to cite all of your verifiable sources with indisputable evidence and hard facts.
NatiLite
Bro, cite your sauce through an edit
HeyEverybodyImPeterPantsless
You should get google. It's awesome.
SomethingHorriblyInappropriate
You should include sources in your post, it's common courtesy.
HeyEverybodyImPeterPantsless
It's not my post dipshit. There's not enough hours in the day to educate someone who doesn't want to learn.
SomethingHorriblyInappropriate
I'll let you know when I've started caring what people who resort to petty name calling on the internet have to say.
HeyEverybodyImPeterPantsless
You don't live up to your username. "You disappoint me." - me, your mom and dad, your girlfriend, your boss LOL
ozjuggler
He can't do that when he's just taking Ben Swann's word for it. http://truthinmedia.com/truth-in-media-the-origin-of-isis/
DrJoels
The copy pasta is strong with this post.
Mylastusernameoffendedpeoplefeelingsmatter
Funny how no one seems to have a problem when the media reports shit like "government sources say" "cia sources say" "fbi sources say"
bigwhitespats
Yeah but good media people will actually have literally spoken to the sources.
Mylastusernameoffendedpeoplefeelingsmatter
you hope/assume. and "good media people"? what metric determines that, our trust because they're in the media?
bigwhitespats
I don't trust all media sources. I trust NPR. I do not trust Fox News. I don't have a particular metric other than reliability in the past.
Mylastusernameoffendedpeoplefeelingsmatter
NPR succumbs to pressure all the time. no media source is infallible when they are for profit or require revenue from corporate donations
scrim4
Maybe this will be the rise of another Middle East myth, like how it's widely known to those who know nothing that the CIA created al Qaeda?
dhulqarnayn
Mark my words, there will never be indisputable facts or sources when it comes to things like this. Indeed, all of history is written by (1)
dhulqarnayn
human beings with agendas (2)
longtimewatcherfirsttimeposter
I understand it's important to cite our sources but, the broad strokes here are easily verifiable with a few quick searches.
damadamagoyolur
It's strange, how aren't those broad strokes just common knowledge? There's almost too many sources to cite there...
HBH91
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/19/us-iraq-crisis-congress-vote-idUSKBN0HD2P820140919
yikesaroni
are you just linking random shit now or? reply to my comment about the origins of daesh
Vorengard
A news article does not count as "hard evidence"
GrimRiderJ
More research than you have done though yeah?
HBH91
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3111931/Concern-Pentagon-ISIS-shows-military-equipment-seized-Iraqi-troops-latest-video.html
AnalBeard
Ahh, it appears the media has covered this, despite you using the bait line "the media doesn't cover this" multiple times.
lainken
Lol daily mail
velvetpoop
Pinnacle of journalism there!
captainspoof
Obviously that clearly states those were democratic Iraq forces that were killed and their equipment stolen, nothing to do with FSA
SomethingHorriblyInappropriate
You're saying that equipment, given to the Iraqis, later captured by ISIS forces, is America supporting ISIS?
LurkersRule
We left it unguarded. If you leave your gun on the counter at a store and a kids kills themselves it's your fault.
SomethingHorriblyInappropriate
A) No we didn't, we gave the equipment to the IDF. B) That analogy was completely inappropriate, even by my standards.
FajitaPrinceofAllMexicans
I'm pretty sure if someone stole my car by any means, it would mean they stole my car and I didn't contribute to people dying.
HBH91
"Left for the Iraqis"
zuckerfuck
(1/2) based on US foreign intervention track record and all around shady ass behavior benefitting weapons manufacturers & oil tycoons,
SomethingHorriblyInappropriate
Semantics, you're arguing semantics. I hardly think captured equipment qualifies as proof of support.
yikesaroni
is my post too inconvenient for you to respond or..? lol the irony
yikesaroni
hi, i see that youre still responding to others but not to my post? why not my post? can you edit your post to include my historical facts?
zuckerfuck
(2/2) I whole-heartedly believe US supported ISIS in some way and is currently doing so. I believe you OP, blind patriotism runs wild
snopcat
As an Iraqi, I can confirm the part about Iraq. My cousins who are at the front lines of the Iraqi army have repeatedly reported finding....
emotionallydevoid
Yea, that shit was given to the Iraqi's, and they pussed out and left it, like most of us knew they would.
snopcat
...American equipment at the sites where ISIS used to settle.
chocolatemilkshark
how about the iraqi army that abandon all of its posts with supplies from the US army that were givin to them to combat isis.
snopcat
Yes, but the reports were about equipment which even the Iraqi army didn't have. For example, 7 km range snipers (1/2)
JauntyTunes
ISIS' recruitment in Iraq has a lot to do with the sectarian lines that have pre-existed but were further exposed by President Maliki's gov.
Mikaru86
They also dissolved the entire army, putting many trained soldiers and officers out on the streets. They gladly joined up with the militias.
JauntyTunes
As well has the US trusting military grade equipment to Iraqi forces which in many cases have either given up or lost in the initial attack
JauntyTunes
Needless to say its complicated and Imgur isn't exactly the best medium to explain geopolitical and sociopolitical problems. -Just Saying
ipushbuttons
They never existed under Saddam, Assad, Mubarak, etc., because all dissent was violently repressed. Now its a bunch of failed states.
BergnerFaris
Yeah, these states often failed because of the U.S. The States putsches states that dont address their ideology anymore.
Luakey
ISIS recruited in Syria regularly from 2006-2009 without the Mukhabarat interfering. Assad supported them to hurt the U.S. in Iraq.
crapoki
A lot of the intial military successes were attributed to ex-Iraqi soldiers/officers ejected from the army after the fall of Saddam (1)
crapoki
Or so I read at least, I find it weird there is no mention of that 2/2
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
A lot of what OP wrote is bullshit, with just enough fact backing it to sound plausible, so I don't think research is their strong suit.
eichelburglar
True, I think Zakaria said it best: Iraq exists only as a concept now. "Iraqis" identify not by 'nationality' but by Sunni/Shiite
SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE
Exactly. It blows my mind that people think having Saddam in power is better in any way
JamBarn
I mean, it'd be better for us.
euphorick
Not to mention, they could freely walk around their towns and shop, in safety. Before the West destroyed it, it was somewhat beautiful.
euphorick
Well, the people had a 90% literacy rate for a start. They had schools, medicine and a working infrastructure...
Aesaar
It's absolutely better. You can negotiate with a rational actor.
IOnlyUpvoteSouthDakota
Don't agree? Say goodbye to your family and hometown
Aesaar
Which happens with ISIS too, but much more arbitrarily and with much more regularity.
ipushbuttons
And ISIL seems worse than the likes of Saddam because of the media, but Saddam literally killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.
[deleted]
[deleted]
fueledbytea
Yeah, my step grandfather was a minister in Iraq before saddam came to power. He took his family and got out while he still could.
[deleted]
[deleted]
fueledbytea
At least they got out!
bohemiancrabcity
Like when he used chemical weapons on the kurds.
GrimRiderJ
Hey now, Saddam had time, they'll get there. The killing is far from over.
NatiLite
Agreed, because of the political environment and how the media conducts itself nowadays, that fact has been overlooked.
soukmania
It's true. In terms of numbers, Saddam was way worse. In terms of morale, international threat, stability, etc, he was better.
Hybris51129
And the thing that most of the western world failed to learn is how Saddam operated really is how you can bring peace to middle east. (1)
Hybris51129
the very concept of personal choice and having a say in government is culturally alien to them to the point that they can't understand it.(3
Hybris51129
Of course such methods we see as brutal and oppressive but the people in the middle east only truly respond to such tactics as (2)
yikesaroni
i agree with you but they did exist under saddam, just not calling themselves the same, there were precursor groups before iraq, before 9/11
JamBarn
You're referring to "generic sunni extremist group" not ISIS.
yikesaroni
uhh do you think that daesh just formed itself spontaneously from regular iraqis? the fuck are you smoking? there IS A CLEAR LINEAGE
JamBarn
No, Daesh just didn't exist under Saddam nor did any "pre-cursor" groups like it. That's why I said generic Sunni extremist group.
yikesaroni
daesh is literally the unity of saddam baathist loyalist, sunni tribes, with al-qaeda in iraq which was called differently even before 9/11
JamBarn
Which, again, DIDN'T EXIST UNDER SADDAM. Did no one read what I was responding to? What was this pre-cursor group in Iraq that became ISIS?
yikesaroni
al-qaeda in iraq
yikesaroni
daesh was just spontaneously created in 2006?! and not forming off the backbone of al-qaeda in iraq which was Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad?!
JamBarn
Oh, so now you want to talk about JORDANIAN extremist groups, not Iraqi ones. Okay.
yikesaroni
are you being dense on purpose because you're wrong or do you actually believe the shit that you post?
yikesaroni
you do realize that many of the foreign fighters flooding into iraq relied on al zarqawi's local contacts?
soukmania
Back in the days, like the Taliban in the war against Russia, they were funded, armed, and seen as freedom fighters by Russia, USA, Egypt
soukmania
True. The GIA (Algerian Islamic Group), later called Aqmi (Al Qaedi in Islamic Maghreb) dates back to the Algerian war with France. (1)
yikesaroni
most of this unsourced anti-US rant is just propaganda with no historical basis
yikesaroni
was talking about 'Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad', later 'al-qaeda in iraq'. they helped plan 9/11, so its funny to hear that US created them
soukmania
I don't think OP's point is to say the US created them. More like the US played a game of influence thinking they would control (1)
yikesaroni
"ISIS is entirely a creation of the United States’ behavior in Iraq." yeah please stop trying to whitewash this crappy post
soukmania
the situation but ended supporting a monster that changed a lot over time.
idislikecomingupwithuniqueusernames
1) Actually, there's evidence that ISIS leadership is largely made up of ex-Iraqi Guard members.
idislikecomingupwithuniqueusernames
2) So the belief is that disbanding the Iraqi military, effectively forcing them into unemployment, is what created ISIS.
idislikecomingupwithuniqueusernames
3) The alternative would have been to allow Saddam supporters to continue controlling the Iraqi military.
iraqiwarrior
Well as you see, the US chose Maliki who didnt want ex iraqi guard members, resulting in a splitted society.
idislikecomingupwithuniqueusernames
Yeah, well, I didn't say US did well in Iraq. I'm just saying ISIS isn't quite as much of a conspiracy as some think ;)
iraqiwarrior
1:Well there you go, the US didn't do great in Iraq. They really destroyed the country and the structure
iraqiwarrior
2: It's a "gold mine" for terrorist when a country doesnt have security, which lead to ISIS in Syria/Iraq
AntTrapHouse
[Multiple Citations Needed]
BootyPaladin
Have to agree with this. A lot of information in this post is nonsense to the point of: Let me make a speech.
Downvotemepussy
So you agree or no?
nkaplan89
Nah that's inconvenient too.
tintinnnnn
[Citations Intensify]
zaphod
so much bovine excreta in OPs post you need to look in the cow pasture for any citations...
castororpollux
This has been shown in US policy decisions before, during Iran-Irag war 1980s and in Nicaragua and other South/Central American countries.
vincentvongoat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMjXbuj7BPI
Gh0u1
I learned most of what's in this post from this documentary https://vimeo.com/128725600
LostCatWantedDeadAndAlive
Dat run-on sentence though... http://imgur.com/7ReEJ6f
tenebrouslyx
Good place to start would be Atlantic's profile on Maliki from 2013.
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
It seems like this post contains an interesting mix of objective fact and utter bullshit, both presented as the former.
WateryTartan
This doc is worth watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyfm75jmkbI
Moefassa
[unless the information is straight from the Pentagon, because they never lie to anyone]
adamczi
Citation: please read or watch The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.
berlinson
A good example of a well researched book on the subject of criminal wars started by the US
Squanto229
If many understood things now a days is that corporations and countries profit of this shit that has a huge role as well.
nkaplan89
Nah that's inconvenient too.
Aterius
http://www.mintpressnews.com/how-the-us-its-allies-and-syria-unwittingly-corporatized-isis/201748/
fallingoutofplanesandfreeingtheshitoutofpeople
That is literally just more conjecture. We want facts not people with the same opinion.
[deleted]
[deleted]
AntTrapHouse
If someone is posting something, it isn't up to me to prove them right.
[deleted]
[deleted]
AntTrapHouse
Wow you are dumb
cycodevil
You do know that the citations are just proof he isn't pulling this all outs his ass right?
theSPECIALhell
This does sound very similar to how Saddam Hussein came into power. And, as someone else pointed out, that last picture is from the Gulf War
ktheman
This is all I could think of while reading this. Some of these points are quite contrary or unrelated as well. A few I've never heard though
tintinnnnn
[Citations Intensify]
HowsYourMommaAndDem
Nah. If it's on the internet with pretty pictures and long explanations, it's the truth.
TheDarkLordOfTrees
On tumblr this would get 100,000+ notes
bb5mes
Only if there was a commentary included about how it's oppressing white girls
livlyvluycvluycluycluyc
Excuse me sir, check your priviledge, you don't know what it's like to be a white girl
bb5mes
I am a white girl... Irish, in fact.
AntTrapHouse
Yeah I guess you're right, no need to question anything if its on the internet
HowsYourMommaAndDem
Question everything!
AntTrapHouse
Why?! jk
PoeKneeTa
Yet more and more people have been speaking out about this for over a decade now, but you're just writing it off as false.
PoeKneeTa
Your sarcastic reasoning, by saying "if it's on the internet, it must be true" to discredit him is honestly, the biggest problem.
HowsYourMommaAndDem
Is some of this true? Probably. There are also wild accusations and the whole premise here is quit whining America, you created this.
AntTrapHouse
who are these people, where have they been speaking? No one is writing it off as false we just want sources. Claims require proof.
PoeKneeTa
Just look at who I replied to in my original reply. It's a sarcastic comment. You don't want sources. You already have your beliefs.
IComeWithWifi
Google "how the US fuelled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq"
IComeWithWifi
FFS, stop childishly downvoting it just because you refuse to believe it. Read what people link and learn something.
Waqar274
reassuring lie sells better https://backtocambodia.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/untitled.jpg
ihaveenoughofthisorgasm
here's some http://theantimedia.org/declassified-pentagon-report-proves-us-helped-create-isis/
Redstrife
Great source bro, lulz
yikesaroni
this is a misreading of the doc, the groups that want to create the salafist enclave are the muslim brotherhood, al-qaeda, salafist groups
yikesaroni
while the supporting powers to the syrian rebels like the FSA are listed as: turkey, gulf states, western states, etc
FatWhiteMan
There is a pbs documentary out on isis and it is nothing close to this
NiteFury
I took a class on foreign terrorism in college and most of this isn't true
rumandbass
Yea but PBS is a media outlet and therefore part of the conspiracy. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
Laubby
Sources or it didn't happen.
Shinotsa
Gee it'd be a shame if we had to do our own research and actually think about something
AntTrapHouse
That's like saying it's up to the employer to make a resume for all the people who apply
Shinotsa
Luckily this is a website where people post stuff, not a place of employment
Rockageddon
ISIS and Al Qaeda, are american funded militant groups trained by the CIA and (unbeknownst to them) foot mobile U.S. grunts. 1/3ish
Rockageddon
The syrian war was an opportunity to arm them and make it look like an accident, and terrorist action. The syrain rebels who were given 2/3
Rockageddon
The weapons were brutally murdered after ISIS aquired them, in a U.S. "misplacing action". Then the weapons circulated, and ISIS thrived 3/+
Rockageddon
The origional ISIS recivers of the loot were given orders to camp in the open, and were carpetbombed, leaving no one left to tell of how 4/+
Rockageddon
The weapons actually got to them. Also note their uniform, this is not a fucking videogame look again, this image has power and 5/+
NiteFury
from research i conducted ISIS was created from the ashes of AlQuida because they had
NiteFury
different views about how they should carry out their mission
memeseekoo
ISIS (More accurately, ISIL) Is a combination of the remnants of Al-Qaeda and a religo-politcal group determined to reunite the Levant. 1/2
memeseekoo
ISIL also has a number of Ex-Iraqi Army forces in its ranks. Their goal is to reunite the Levant because Mohammad said his nation would 2/?
memeseekoo
be split into many different nations and only would survive. So they basically think all other nations are false and not real muslims 3/?
memeseekoo
They want to reestablish the Amawi empire and Levant based in Bagdad as the center from Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Iraq. 4/4
memeseekoo
sauce : http://www.cfr.org/iraq/iraqi-president-fuad-masum-isis-iraqs-challenges/p35742
PickledPeaches
Oh, fuck this shit and fuck anyone who blindly upvotes this w/o actually doing research. Do your own reading; don't trust some ass online.
Airsoft99
He's not wrong. Most of what he is saying is right
sidfromtoystory
people are upvoting you and you're just saying stuff with no evidence to back up your point
PickledPeaches
Exactly! That's what I just said.
MegalomanicMango
Could poster supply links/ sources so those who are interested can do more research
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/7/7173665/isis-oil-money The 2 million dollars a day oil figure is an old, flawed estimate pre-airstrikes.
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
Also, they were selling oil at STEEP discounts, $20 instead of $65 a barrel for example.
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
He portrays equipment taken from defeated Iraqi army troops as being "left behind" by the US.
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
The pictures of burning oil fields are from 1991, not ISIS oil fields.
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
Well a lot (though not all) of what OP posted is bullshit, so I'm guessing they won't.
bassguitarhero
The U.S. Has done this tons of times. We armed the Taliban to fight Russia in Afghanistan and created Al Qaeda.
Voidkom
Yep. The US just manipulate whatever happens in the middle east because people will gobble it up. also : http://puu.sh/iM3OW/b16858998e.jpg
Mcknizzle
No we the fuck did not. I'm so tired of this claim. We armed the mujahideen to fight the soviets. After the soviets left, we stopped. 1/?
Mcknizzle
Pakistan armed a financed one group of the many many mujahideen groups, the Taliban, which roamed Afghanistan, murdering the other 2/?
Mcknizzle
groups if the refused to join. Pakistan created the Taliban just as years of repression from dictatorships have created ISIS. 3/3
JamBarn
No, the Taliban didn't exist. That's terribly incorrect.
DinoKebab
This ^^ that's the most frustrating thing the U.S don't seem to learn from past mistakes.
methistopholes
Because the US measures mistakes by lost money, and these pseudo-wars have been quite lucrative.
Mcknizzle
the soviets left. Taliban raged through Afghanistan, killing many of the groups we armed. Pakistan created the Taliban. Get it right.
Mcknizzle
It wasn't a mistake and if anyone actually thinks we created the Taliban, they're wrong. Pakistan financed and armed the Taliban after
irishnovember
Stopped reading this over simplification "ISIS is entirely a creation of the United States’ behavior in Iraq."
ihaveenoughofthisorgasm
what a shame, it got really good after that
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
Actually it's full of inaccuracies.
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
Not that it's ENTIRELY inaccurate, but overall it paints a greatly skewed picture.
TheCoolhwhip
It needs citations. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
zuckerfuck
& don't believe anything the government tells you either. So who do we believe?
ihaveenoughofthisorgasm
good that i already know the story,even the DIA confirmed http://theantimedia.org/declassified-pentagon-report-proves-us-helped-create-isis/
TheCoolhwhip
See, that's what OP needed to do. I'm not saying there is no truth to what he said, but he needs to cite and source his info.
myusernameissomethingonmydesk
No matter the origin and backstory... nothing justifies the shit they do, the killing of innocent people, the beheadings and the terror!
MankDemes
They're just doing their religion
longtimewatcherfirsttimeposter
*No matter the origin and backstory* Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it...
Thekingofbeans
I feel this is missing the point. He's staying they're the bad guys regardless of the why. He's not saying that why and how aren't important
longtimewatcherfirsttimeposter
OP missed it here... If we do not know / ignore the 'who' & 'why' then we cannot understand the problem & in turn, effectively address it.
Thekingofbeans
He's not really addressing that though. He's on a bit of a tangent saying not to forget they are still absolutely the bad guys.
longtimewatcherfirsttimeposter
Sry, to clarify I meant OP the top level comment we're replying to.
ourari
Sure, but this isn't about justification. This is about learning from mistakes and understanding your enemy.
ClubsCantHandleMe
the ones who gave those people the tools to do so should be held accountable. Their actions have horrible consequences
troublecliff
Haha, accountability... in the UNITED STATES CONGRESS!?!
TopsunPB
İmgur has been glorifying some organizations that does these, only because they're opposing ISIS. War is not good vs bad people.
scabab
What about this post did you perceive as trying to justify anybody's actions? Being funded by a corrupt and interventionist government 1/2
JayDelCor
That argument works both ways.
BimmerBoost
Nobody is supporting them the point he is making is that the US is partially responsible for creating them.
sebawlm
Terror is going to sleep and waking up to the sound of drones and not knowing whether your children will be collateral damage today.
sebawlm
And before I get downvoted to oblivion, my point is the same: actions have consequences. Scared and angry people lash out.
oopesifuckedyourmom
....or Saudi Arabia.....or North Korea....or Boko Haram
Neo160
the serious humanitarian crisis with ISIS is that they believe it is their mandate to to slaughter, enslave, and behead their enemies.
ibextrainer
Why do you think they do it? Don't paint them all to be comic book super villains, it makes it impossible to fight them ideologically.
evill33t
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ good explanation why they behave so alien
NuclearButtPlugFromPlanetX
U.S. might've fucked up a lot of things but ISIS gets its doctrine from religious extremism.
drawz
Religious extremism is funded exclusively by Saudi Arabia, the US's biggest and second closest ally in the region.
ossius
Killing of Innocent people you say? Go watch HBO's Generation Kill. US military is just as screwed up at times.
myusernameissomethingonmydesk
the argument goes both ways ofcourse, there are sick people everywhere.
Swa9Dra9on
No one's justifying their behaviour.
scabab
2/2 is not meant to cast anyone in a good light.
DiCK14
Who's justifying?
Protean2648
Don't forget the slavery, sexual torture and human trafficking.
HeyEverybodyImPeterPantsless
Islam explains it all. Those lunatics have yet to evolve. They need another million years or so to catch up.
sidfromtoystory
looks like you've yet to evolve from tarring people with the same brush
markus242005
Quite the generalization you've got there...
HeyEverybodyImPeterPantsless
*truth
markus242005
*opinion
HeyEverybodyImPeterPantsless
Dead bodies everywhere are not evidence of an opinion. Try to think.
batarnak
I'd rather venture to say that Islam, much like 5 planes on 9/11, is being hijacked.
myusernameissomethingonmydesk
Islam, like all other religions has their idiots and extrmists. To say they are as they are because of Islam alone is wrong in my opinion.
HeyEverybodyImPeterPantsless
I respectfully disagree good sir/madam. Have a great holiday weekend :)
myusernameissomethingonmydesk
You too.
17thspartan
It's not just an opinion.Islam is a larger secondary religions in the US and theyre peaceful and law abiding citizens since long before 2000
DartexKiljoy
But the shit the U.S do is okay?
NotAnotherFuckingDalek
US: "Don't worry, I'm not making the same mistakes again."... World: "No, you're making all new ones."
aCartographer
Seems so because every top comment is about "Ok, maybe U.S. fucked up pretty bad, but shit happens", bothers the shit out of me...
AnUnknownErrorOccurred
Seriously. I was 12 when we invaded Iraq and I saw this shit coming even back then. Hurrrr derrr durrr blind patriotism.
SwiftMustacheMan
Patriotism taken this far like the US do, becomes fanatism.
troublecliff
"Ok, maybe we fucked up pretty bad, but shit happens..." - The basis of U.S. foreign policy.
BergnerFaris
Same goes for the U.S. then but that just would be bigotry, if someone would admit that. Death Penalty is crime, war is terror.
alabamafutbol
yea you're right hacking off innocent peoples heads and humanely executing convicted murderers is basically the same thing
StingLikeAJelly
wow, such humanely executing, much convicted murderers
BergnerFaris
The ISIS uses a perverted kind of judices based on a perverted sense of morality. In there sense of justice, it is justified, so is it for u
twistedVAINS
Agreed, it's sad. It all looks like a team thing. Your with us or against us. War is War, trying to define morality in war..
LegendaryMoonlightSculptor
Hmm I think I'm misinterpreting what you're saying but U.S. doesn't actively kill innocents and terrorize unlike ISIS
edissick
K
WulfricBrianDumbledore
Drone strikes in pakistan?.Once they bombed a little girl and over the radio said oh it was a two legged dog?.There are people, afraid.
PersonenschadenImGleisbett
those wedding drone strikes tho. *looks up at highest comment* it is fucking complicated as shit.
ClubsCantHandleMe
you my friend will be shocked by how ugly the truth is
TimothyTRiG
The US actively kills innocents all the time. And the US military is a terrorist organisation by any definition of the word.
TraitorousTrump3
Fox News has lied to you.
HBH91
True. The same goes for al qaeda.
RickonStarkKinginTheNorth
Or the U.S. army.
Egeksu77
I dont understand the point of funding ether side. Why the fuck did US interfere with someone else's war again!? Did they think that 1/2
Egeksu77
funding the other side would end the war faster with less casualities? Or did they want to remove the otherside by doing this and get 2/3:P
Egeksu77
to try to be the "hero" that ended the war? US pls, fix your stuff you powerhungry piece of shit.
coolkid87
I dont think its completely about power we just always support rebels. We love a good revolution. I wonder why?
coolkid87
I dont think its completely about power we just always support rebels. We love a good revolution. I wonder why?
HBH91
During the cold war US created al qaeda to fight the soviet union. During the syrian civil war, ISIS emerged . same scenario all over again.
022981
They didn't create al qaeda, they trained militants that gave way to al queada forming.
Phrozenpoo
Might as well have created it lol
DeepReaver
That is not entirely accurate. The US funded the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, Al-Qaeda was a splinter group of the muja that wanted to expand.
cutthroatink15
Leaving a bookmark here cuz I'm actually learning some shit
AvielMenter
"ISIS is entirely a creation of the US’ behavior in Iraq." No. Also the civil war in Syria, Sykes-Picot agreement. Don't oversimplify.
REV076
It is the result of screwing people over and over again by western giants, in the name of oil and military bases.
tinsoldier314
From OP I learned the US had nothing to do with ISIS; ISIS is entirely a creation of the Syrian civil war. ISIS in Iraq apparently failed.
ShotsoMilk
Which it didn't. At all. They control Iraq's second largest city, most of the Anbar province and oil fields.
dutchbag
It's a mutation of a wider-followed movement that boils down to the Sunnis wanting to get power in Iraq again, as they always had it.
UnexpectedItemInBaggingArea
The United States AND the UK. We are partly responsible for this shitstorm. Credit where it's due dammit.
horseslaughter
Oh, so I guess the secular totalitarian regimes that the US put an end to didn't stabilize their respective territories of sectarianism.
AvielMenter
Yeah, almost like pluralistic governments tend to be more effective.
filip00
What is the US doing in Iraq anyways? What is US military doing anywhere outside the USA? It's invading, you do understand that?
DoctorGoldfish
Why bother stepping into someone else's yard when you see someone being beaten by another?
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) the fact that the military had ADVISED OBAMA THAT THIS WOULD HAPPEN, and Obama ignored it simply because he wanted to do the popular
ToastyPotato
George Bush signed an agreement that we were to leave by 2011. Let's not play partisan politics and leave that out.
DoctorWatchamacallit
who said anything about partisan politics. It was a dumb idea to pull out at that point no matter WHO said it
AvantiSempreAvanti
While I agree that it was a mistake to pull out, if they hadnt, Iraq could have brought the us before the un for illegal occupation
DoctorWatchamacallit
so? the UN can't DO anything without the UN security council's approval, which we possess a seat on. if we vote against action, the UN can't
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) DO anything. one vote on the UN security council can stop an intervention dead in its tracks
DoctorWatchamacallit
3) thing of leaving Iraq. The voters are the primary reason for ISIS. Had we stayed, this would not have happened.
[deleted]
[deleted]
CaptainAmerica24
please, we were sustaining the iraqi government, a president with a pair of balls could've done whatever they wanted with our military there
lordkango
Don't forget the prisoners the US military had that our civilian leaders forced us to release who would later go on to lead ISIS
Gink0
Well to be fair, if you campaign to masses that they're loved ones can come home from a war zone then the results are to be expected
eichelburglar
And probably why Hillary resigned.
eichelburglar
NTM Robert Gates.
KingsOfTheRaidersNation
the ISIS making 2 million a day on oil is also a load of crap. I'm going to need a citation somewhere. Otherwise you're just foxnews or cnn.
Whydopeoplekeepcallingmethat
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/7/7173665/isis-oil-money Looks like the 2 million dollar figure was an inaccurate estimate.
bootymen
Maybe not that much,but they are making money to support their operations and recruitment is undeniable
DoctorWatchamacallit
ISIS is more a product of the US LEAVING Iraq too early than it was about the Iraq war in general. I love how nobody wants to bring up 1)
PhillipSemenHoffmore
Also disbanding the Iraqi army after the invasion and only slowly reorganizing it years later with new, inexperienced leadership
DoctorWatchamacallit
experience means dick if the old leaders were corrupt.
PhillipSemenHoffmore
Very true, I don't have the solution. Unfortunately many unemployed Iraqi army officers turned to ISIS.
monkeywithagun65
Ikr? More like we removed a tyrant that kept different ethnicities/races/whatever from killing each other... And look what happened (1/2)
iraqiwarrior
ISIS is a product by US entering Iraq. In Saddam's times none/very few tried to attack the country or the people. 1)
iraqiwarrior
Saddam had very hard penalty for people who joind terrorist org. I dont say that he is a good guys, but by US invading Iraq people miss him.
DoctorWatchamacallit
because he was so busy killing everyone who opposed him!
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) And attacking other countries!
iraqiwarrior
Very true man, I bet you also believe that he had nuclear weapons?
DoctorWatchamacallit
nobody said he had nukes. we said he had WMDs which include chemical and bio weapons
monkeywithagun65
Ikr? More like we removed a tyrant that kept different ethnicities/races/whatever from killing each other... And look what happened (1/2)
MrSomeguy
It wasn't peaceful under Saddam, he was killing people too. But it was working in a fucked up way, people weren't killing each other as much
monkeywithagun65
True
monkeywithagun65
(2/2) They should of split the country in 3, Kurds, Shias, and Sunnis. But oil makes its hard because that revenue can't be split regionally
AvielMenter
So until when should we have stayed? The mistake was probably invading in the first place.
CharlieHoxey
It probably would've helped.
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) said that he would attack the US, and considering he was the largest military power in the middle east at that time, made him a threat
DoctorWatchamacallit
not at all. Sadaam was a mass murdering dictator who used chemical weapons on his own people, killed them for dissent, and repeatedly
Ultimyke
He also compensated the families of suicide bombers with thousands of dollars for attacking civilians.
DoctorWatchamacallit
exactly.
AvielMenter
Is the situation now meaningfully better? Was the situation during the insurgency?
DoctorWatchamacallit
THE POINT was to keep a military presence there long enough so that we could CREATE a stable government. unfortunately, too many people
DoctorWatchamacallit
5) and pull out anyways CAUSING the mess we have right now.
DoctorWatchamacallit
3) consequences of that stupid decision.
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) wanted immediate progress, and told the government to get out before that could be accomplished, and the world is dealing with the
DoctorWatchamacallit
4) the POINT of me discussing this was to point out that it COULD have been stable were people not stupid enough to ignore the warnings
filip00
Why did the US army enter Iraq in the first place? Why is US constantly interfering and invading other countries?
DoctorWatchamacallit
3) he also previously invaded Kuwait and committed genocide multiple times. if ANYONE deserved to be invaded, it was Sadaam controlled Iraqq
filip00
You do understand that the USA is not the world police officer, can you understand that?
DoctorWatchamacallit
well then who the hell else is going to stop murderous dictators?
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) importantly, PAID SUICIDE BOMBER'S families as a way to encourage that type of behavior.
DoctorWatchamacallit
because Sadaam was a mass murdering dictator who silenced opposition, gassed his own people, threatened to attack the US, and most 1)
filip00
So if someone threatens you, you immediatelly go and KILL them? Why doesn't the US invade North Korea then? Oh, no oil, right.
DoctorWatchamacallit
3) hell did the military spend a lot of time BURNING The oil fields controlled by the enemy?
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) and the only reason we DON'T Invade North Korea is China has their back. Also, if the US was so damn concerned with oil, why the
DoctorWatchamacallit
threatening wasn't the only reason, I listed a lot of them. not the least of which was he LITERALLY paid terrorists to commit terrorism.
squip
That's no why the US went in and you know it. Besides, Saddam bought the bio-weapons from the US in the first place.
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) stop Iran, which he broke. Second, Yes it IS the reason we went to war. Why do YOU think it was? and don't give me the "so we could sell
DoctorWatchamacallit
3) Iraqi oil" crap because if that were true, we wouldn't have spent half our time BURNING IT
DoctorWatchamacallit
they weren't bio weapons, they were chemical weapons. And they were sold to him under very strict agreement they would be only used to 1)
Annoctatio
This seems pretty legit info, but as with any info, [citation needed]. Also, any organized military group that kills civilians, are shit.
orangemarmaladesky
http://phasezero.gawker.com/an-intelligence-vet-explains-isis-yemen-and-the-dick-1699407909
Turtleproof
What's that? I can't hear you over laser-guided missiles used to obliterate hospitals in 2003.
ozjuggler
Most of the text in OP's post was copied from a TV report written by Ben Swann http://truthinmedia.com/truth-in-media-the-origin-of-isis/
Halbeard
Lol what, you mean like we (USA) do? We bomb villages and strategic locations without even checking (or caring) if there are civilians there
huanthewolfhound
There's a recent Frontline documentary that laid out some of this information, although OP's post is somewhat editorialized.
hamfishstone
Like the U.S army.
cjwelch
America kills civilians. Look up Julian Assange, from wikileaks
Colnelius
Well the US has killed hundreds of thousands of civillians so...
surfvvax
Not as a deliberate action, like ISIS does daily.
Moefassa
Including the U.S. military?
Moefassa
You ARE aware that you have drones regularly bombing innocent civilians, right?
Annoctatio
"You have drones" I'm not from U.S., I'm actually really, really far away from U.S.
TurdsOfWisdom
So every single military force ever?
confusedconstructionworker
Including Saddam Hussein...who murdered countless civilians of his own country...for shits and giggles...
Frohan007
Lol the u.s. army.
krakenflax
Don't think op is supporting ISIS... That last part goes without saying. And I'm pretty sure the US military tops that list of shit.
PatrikLilja
This seems legit, on basis that I remember reading news articles about some of those stuff, some years ago. Still would want sources,
Sundance37
Ummm drone strikes often kill multiple civilians, only because they are in the area of a supposed target.
Wgasa
Almost all of them then.
17thspartan
This left out a lot of info too.It's a good and broad description,but it's missing details.Ex: our disbanding Iraqi military fed into this
17thspartan
But just to get anyone started: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/world/middleeast/army-know-how-seen-as-factor-in-isis-successes.html
17thspartan
But my brother studies this for a living. Foreign relations with a focus on the middle east, and terrorism. I'd have to consult him first.
17thspartan
I can't give you sources right now, it'd take half an essay to type up the sources for this guy's posts or go into any more detail.
BeautifulHavok
You mean when the US dropped a giant bomb on the civilian population of Japan? TWICE.
SSgtDipShit
After they dropped leaflets warning the civilians of what was going to happen and to leave.
Annoctatio
Exactly. And pretty much all the fucking military organizations ever.
Glumerlink
He said the US just left the military shit, no we fucking did not. The Iraq military fucking handed over what we gave them.
khuan
The US knew the Iraqi army was a joke. Only the militias have any real cohesion, that's why they're the ones fighting now.
RIPBillHicks
The militias are just as bad, especially in afghan where they were far worse than the Taliban
Glumerlink
i don't think anyone would have assumed that the iraq military would just hand over their gear, we expected them to run
khuan
Also, ISIS is going to disolve as quickly as it appeared. They can't govern shit and will be gone within a couple years.
khuan
They ran and dropped their weapons. It was stupid to expect otherwise. Especially given the sunni/shia tensions. 1/2
Glumerlink
but by all reports they didn't actually run, they literally handed over their gear to isis
xTheMaestro
False. The Iraqi military that WE left was fairly decent. When we gave Al-Maliki the reins he replaced all of our carefully vetted, 1
khuan
Right, always someone elses fault.
xTheMaestro
Non-sequitur. Come back when you have a point.
xTheMaestro
competent commanders with political allies that had little to no military experience. If the US commanders had been left in place ISIS 2
xTheMaestro
might exist but it would never have taken a major city, let alone entire regions. Last
Rogansan
I think every army in existence has killed civilians, not always on purpose but wars always have collateral damage.
krakenflax
Then war is a part of the problem that needs fixing.
parparr
Just the word collateral damage to explain innocent lives is a bit far fetched to accept. I do agree war has casualties.
Bugofbelgium
"I do agree war has casualties." - parparr, July 2015
Annoctatio
I am aware. Still, I am actually applying for Finnish Rapid Deployment Forces, and I'm going to volunteer for Iraq as Peacekeeper. 1/2
Annoctatio
Because I feel like I want to help people who have no choice in the shit that's happening at the moment. It's like 85% not their fault. 2/3
Annoctatio
Sure, military has to make sacrifices for the better good, but there are cases (Wikileaks) where they have just butchered for fun 3/3
CloudedAzurity
I think that the purposeful killing of civilians is what crosses the moral line into 'you done fucked up' territory.
krakenflax
I think you over-value intent
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
Then that's really going to include just about everyone in the current Syrian conflict at some point or another.
LiterallyWorseThanHitler
Sure, but in the good cases, those civilian deaths are due to the dudes you want to kill being too close to civvies.
gordonofficial
Nowadays yes, concerning Hiroshima or Nagasaki, not so much :/
LiterallyWorseThanHitler
Good cases=Not intentionally killing civilians, if I did not make myself clear enough.
mctex123
pretty sure there were factories in those Cities as well as troop transport. Honestly The bombs were a better fate than a full invasion 1/2
gordonofficial
I guess this is how war works tho, I meant the collateral damages were quite incredible
mctex123
of japan considering they were preparing massive kamikaze attacks and arming civilians to fight, sometimes with just pointy sticks.it 2/2
mike34568
I too would love some sources for all of this.
troublecliff
It's pretty obvious actually. We overthrew Saddam's regime, which was pro-Sunni. In his place, we put Nurik Al Maliki, who was pro-Shia. 1/?
troublecliff
Maliki's regime began facing opposition from the Sunni majority. When he asked the US how to handle it, they basically told him to do as 2/?
troublecliff
He pleased, so he did. The US invaded Iraq with the intention of destabilizing the country, creating a power vacuum amd inciting 3/?
troublecliff
Sectarian violence. Iraq is the perfect country, namely because of the near 50/50 population split between Sunni and Shia. It was never 4/5
AnalBeard
I was pretty annoyed because OP used that bait line "media doesn't cover this," despite the media covering this and OP excluding sources.
ozjuggler
http://truthinmedia.com/truth-in-media-the-origin-of-isis/
apiringLEO
"Truthinmedia" doesn't sound that reliable..
aCartographer
What would sound reliable? Maybe that attitude is the problem. Didn't check the link, I'm speaking generally here
apiringLEO
Which attitude?
BillNyedasNaziSpy
It's not. The article is filled with errors.
chefsoda
It's not. There is however a recent Article in the Atlantic that is much closer to correct, well cited and far more reasonable.
TheFeralDog
There is no good source other than OPs opinion
parparr
The book state of defense explains alot about the war covered on this post. Also sites/tv channels like BBC, Aljazeera cover it.(1)
parparr
Also any non American news source has been covering parts of what is on this post. To many readers this is common knowledge
gijensen
Russia Today and The Guardian reports on this. I read some of this in the paper in Ontario.
17thspartan
Even US news media reports on much of this as well, but for some topics you have to go with foreign sources.
17thspartan
Unrelated:I was trying to find a US news source that covered the 45 billion the Pentagon "lost",but was unable to find any reputable sources
xTheMaestro
RT is so blatantly biased it's laughable. If we were measuring biased reporting fox would be an 8/10, CNN 6/10, RT would be [Redacted}.
parparr
Most non American news agencies covered this I believe.
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
You're right to ask, so for those interested I'll put some relatively good sources below, not all of which back up the above statements.
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
On ISIS's oil money: tp://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/world/meast/isis-funding/">http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/world/meast/isis-funding/ in contrast http://www.vox.com/2014/11/7/7173665/isis-oil-money
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
Weapons 2: http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-weapons-in-iraq-2014-8
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
ISIS's relationship with the FSA 2: http://www.vox.com/cards/isis-myths-iraq/isis-syrian-rebels
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
ISIS's relationship with the FSA 1: http://www.clarionproject.org/research/battle-between-isis-and-syria%E2%80%99s-rebel-militias
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
Origin: http://truthinmedia.com/truth-in-media-the-origin-of-isis/">of-isis/">http://truthinmedia.com/truth-in-media-the-origin-of-isis/ http://www.vox.com/cards/things-about-isis-you-need-to-know/what-is-isis
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
Weapons 1: http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-06-17/where-are-islamic-militants-iraq-getting-their-weapons-answer-surprised-us
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
My personal take on ISIS for those interested will be below this comment.
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
ISIS would not exist without the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Al-Qaeda only gained a foothold in the country post-Sadam and it was this group1/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
fighters come from Turkish border crossings and the Saudis have pushed Wahabism for decades. But that doesn't mean the US approves. 12/12
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
one man who could have had a force to stop them at the outset from winning, namely Bashar al-Assad. Keeping ISIS down would have meant 7/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
lead to ISIS becoming so well armed. That being said, supporting the Syrian rebels did help ISIS more indirectly, namely by preventing the6/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
But this is NOT because of some ISIS supporting agenda, but because Turkey, a NATO ally, would be extremely against this. The Turks have 9/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
more difficult. Has Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar been giving ISIS some clandestine support? My guess is probably, the foreign ISIS 11/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
weapons left behind weren't abandoned by the US, they were weapons meant to be used by the Iraqi army. It was Iraqi, not US, failures that5/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
been dealing with a Kurdish independence movement for decades and giving them US weapons could make keeping that movement in check much 10/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
supporting brutal, civilian killing dictators. The US has been very reluctant to actually arm the Kurds (the Kurds don't need training) 8/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
divided and weak is a means of preventing coups, but also leaves a nation vulnerable to threats like well trained invaders. However, the 4/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
Iraqi leaders know that in Iraqi history a strong army lead to the coup that lead to the Ba'athist regime. Keeping the army incompetent 3/
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
which created the ISIS we know today. In addition the extreme incompetence of the Iraqi military is another result of the invasion as 2/
Cuddliestfish
While there's some truth to this, and I'll agree 100% we kinda effed up bad the first few years in Iraq; there's way more to it than this.
erischilde
Kinda like OP is trying to ignore the Bush era influence....
haggi
He forgot about the Saudi's funding ISIS
BimmerBoost
The fact is the region is more unstable and ISIS now exists. McCain's pals sure brought stability, peace, and democracy eh?
scabab
Wait... you mean there is more to current affairs in the middle east than a single article can summarise? BUT HOW????
Halbeard
Lol, right? OP is posting whats really going on (corruption), and everyone hates because they don't want to believe it.
ThomasMontgomeryHaverford
Indeed. For one, OP fucked up the group's origin: they began in 1999 (not 2006) and became al-Qaeda in Iraq in 2004, ending ties in 2014.
LiquidPoo
Nothing is mentioned about the huge amounts of foreign fighters(coughChechenscouch) that trained AQI, or funding from gulf states.
Vengurd
Not to mention that the Middle East has been nothing but hostilities since the Ottoman Empire imploded and a British general brew the lines.
savageworld
There's an interesting parallel here to what happened in Cambodia after the US left Vietnam. People who wanted us to get out of 'Nam... 1/?
savageworld
...essentially helped the Khmer Rouge into power. Once it became obvious what that meant, they began selling the idea that the rise... 2/?
savageworld
...of the Khmer Rouge was all the fault of the US effort to fight communism in Southeast Asia. See how that works? 3/4
savageworld
Heads I win. Tails you lose.
ColdSectionModule
While this has truths, this post is riddled with inaccuracies and opinions.
sonicpet
Part of the problem is also that Syrian Free Army wasn't one faction, it was made out of many different factions with different agendas.
BoKnowsBest
Yea I watched a documentary that said ISIS was so militarily competent because their commanders are former Baathist commanders.
ImJustOverHere
If i remember correctly there is a PBS (so a reliable documentary) one on ISIS that talks about this.
BoKnowsBest
The documentary I saw was aired by my college and I had to write about it. It wasn't the PBS one(watched it as a refresher) but was similar
temmuz
Also, some countries (including my beloved Turkey, ruled by a crazy dictator in disguise) have secretly helped the Rebel army and ISIS.
fedthepoopy
You can say that really about anything, when it comes down to it, we should not have gone into the middle east
FreelancerJosiah
What options did we have? If we'd stood by after 9/11, there would have been revolt in the streets. People wanted blood, not politics.
TheoApollo
We've fucked up the past 25 years in the Middle East.
pleasewashyourbutthole
More like the last 70 years
TokensWorth
Remember, Sadam OR ISIS are both bad ideas... pick your poison.
UpvotesForCalicos
Yup.
RickTheMarshallSelke
Way more you say? Fuck reading all that shit.
Ozymander
First few? Our pull out game must be terrible, too, if we're leaving bread crumbs. I mean loaves of bread.
RickTheMarshallSelke
Way more you say? Fuck reading all that shit.
sadwastedmexican
Don't forget that Russia forced the west to not intervene in Syria on the side of moderate rebels until isis showed up
PersonalityFire
No shit. Not a SINGLE mention of Nouri al-Maliki? This is an entirely incomplete take of the situation. ISIS is going to self-destruct.
svyeti
Isis will self destruct? Please explain or point me somewhere.
PersonalityFire
It consists of half former Baathist commandos and religious extremists- as they achieve more, their goals can only conflict.
Cuddliestfish
Agreed, I would say it's a safe bet most of ISIS leadership doesn't give a shiz about Islam, just a tool for control.
millenniumf
I'm curious about how you know they're going to self-destruct. Is there some kind of internal conflict in the group?
twdarkeh
They are a terrorist group that has no real plan to govern. It's easy to take territory, but harder to run it, especially with the U.S 1/2
twdarkeh
and allies dropping bombs on anyone who pokes their head out in public. 2/2
CommieShillPaidBySoros
no... no they won't
RatalieArcadia
An article that explains some things that OP didn't: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/i-went-on-the-worlds-deadliest-road-trip-2ac357788292
NappaTheFriendlyGhost
Suddam needed to go. Everyone but him agreed. The problem was no one really knew what a "government" was there and we did jack shit to teach
kapp70
Yes waaaaay more, like fictitional wmd's that were not being made. The only weapons they had were supplied by??? Yes Ronald Wilson Reagan.
chupacabraattack
saddam was pretty bad in his own right. the whole murdering his citizens with chemical weapons thing.
JohnBlevins
As far as middle eastern dictators go, Saddam could've been a lot worse.
FabricatiDiemPvnc
yes but much less of an international threat than ISIS, if you're looking at it in that light
Cuddliestfish
Honestly with Saddam's historical abuse and disdain for non Sunnis; ISIS would probably find a secret ally in the Republican guard.
Cuddliestfish
No real source to support that; other than spending almost four years in Iraq in various places; talking to people from all walks of life.
Cuddliestfish
And aloooooooootttt of studying Iraqi demgraphics, history, current events and other happenings.
PersonalityFire
Though I don't think anything justifies 500,000 dead Iraqis, Saddam was an awful man and I am glad that he is dead.
millenniumf
It's not that Saddam wasn't bad. He was. It's just that the US invaded and deposed him without having a political leader to replace him with
Madfox40
He never said saddam was a good guy, just that freeing a country is just the first part, it s happening right now in libya too 1/2
Madfox40
From what i remember the power is split between different armed milita 2/2
KittyArcher
Didn't say he did, pointed out that the US knew what kind of man they were backing.
Madfox40
okay, my bad then
KittyArcher
Yeah....And the US totally didn't help put him in power....
IDownVoteSelfies
Or the chemical weapons he used...
chupacabraattack
The funny part is I didn't say anything to the contrary of that and yet you still decided to give me some tude.
scabab
In the context of this debate your statement was a tacit defence of US intervention in Iraq... hence @KittyArcher made a relevant rebuttal.
KittyArcher
No, I was pointing out that the US knew they were backing another psycho (again) but he would do what they want for a bit so who cares.
chupacabraattack
The world isn't perfect. You don't always get to chose between good and evil. This shit ain't a movie. We don't have time machines yet.
zuckerfuck
seems to be a common theme. Same thing happening in Ukraine now, too
WateryTartan
If you want to see the real backstory, I suggest watching the documentary No End In Sight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyfm75jmkbI
GaylordFancyBottom
hey dont say im a american
MixedDough
thats funny +1
sonicpet
It would probably had been better if the war on Iraq wouldn't have occurred. It's difficult to get a country from dictatorship to democracy.
andyonetime
I'm more inclined to say that he is 99% correct. The war in Iraq created a vacuum that invited sectarian conflict its not an opinion.
IMadeThisOnlySoICouldUpvote
We kinda effed up big time back during the Cold War with regards to the Middle East.
aerodynamit3
Covert origins of Isis: http://youtu.be/oMjXbuj7BPI
Boonzo
U.S. pull-out game: weak since 1945.
USAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSA
Watch Generation Kill dude
hardtostarboard
What about the last few years? Those weren't exactly silky smooth
JohnBlevins
A part of that is because the Iraqi government collapsed so quickly that we were completely unprepared to rebuild it. It only took 6 weeks.
Icarox
As somebody who's generally critical of the US: blaming the entirety of ISIS on Americas actions is plain ignorant.
Icarox
One thing everyone needs to remember is that most of the world is developing and becoming much better, and it's becoming much harder..
Icarox
.. for extremely conservative mindsets to go unchallenged. They are losing to the development of the entire world and using ..
Icarox
..violence because what else do they have? They don't have education and pesky questions shake the core of their values.
Icarox
Of course Malala gets a bullet in the head. A _muslim_girl_ having the gall to claim that alls girls should be able to get educated?
Icarox
(ofc there's education. But I'm talking about the comparison with many developed countries.)
Moefassa
Way to play it safe
bananadock
Not just ISIS. Even Afghanistan was the fault of the U.S. It's as if current foreign policy will have no impact on the future is their motto
Shadowbreakr
Pretty sure 9/11 caused the invasion of Afghanistan not the US Bin Laden was there he had just directed an attack that killed thousands 1/?
CommieShillPaidBySoros
Afghanistan is a country. al-qaeda is not
Shadowbreakr
Right and al queda was in Afghanistan and the government there was openly harboring them
CommieShillPaidBySoros
OMG ZE AMERICA IS OPENLY HARBORING THE KKK. TOLERANT PPL OF THE WORLD UNITE AGAINST THIS THREAT. What a shitty fucking excuse.
bananadock
And supporting the mujahideen (rebels) who were anti-USSR. It's well documented with legitimate sources. If you get in bed with the (1/?)
bananadock
The policy regarding Afghanistan was disturbingly similar to the one in Iraq and Syria and U.S. created a monster unintentionally.
bananadock
enemy of your enemy & can't control them, it will come back to haunt you like it did the U.S. with 9/11. It was another casualty of Cold War
Shadowbreakr
if 9/11 hadn't happened I doubt the US would give a crap about the Taliban or AL Queda Afghanistan was 100% the right move to do Iraq is
Shadowbreakr
another issue entirely and is far more controversial
bananadock
In all sincerity, please do me a favour and read up on the Afghan Revolution/ Soviet War and the involvement of the U.S. in arming (1/?)
sweetfeetpete
Yeah. You can't talk about cause and effect in the Middle East without mentioning Iran or Sadi Arabia. Their hands are on everything too
Rynkkicious
+ Israel , lol
WilhelmvonSchlapphand
Some Saudi princes are covertly supporting ISIS. Iran supports Assad & Iraq. It's a giant clusterfuck for sure. It would get tl;dr fast.
soukmania
in which both Iran and Saudi Arabia stand as leader for each side.
soukmania
True, though Iran is on the "better' side this time. Suni and chiites all over again. It's a muslim civil/religious war (1)
Suicidalthoughtsthatwontgoaway
The Middle East countries are a**holes.They have the money but refused to help.And now their people flocking my country treated 1/2
Suicidalthoughtsthatwontgoaway
2/2 like shit.They just do whatever they want and refused to respect our local cultures.
fedthepoopy
Iran literally has NOTHING to do with this... ISIS hates Iran buddy
natabee13
I was under the impression ISIS hated everyone ...
zuckerfuck
If anything we should be working with Iran, but we have this crazy notion they're going to blow up the world & Israel
Shadowbreakr
yea but Iran supports Assad so Syria gets support from them making the rebels severely outgunned which made the US step in and arm them
khuan
Iran was not the reason the US stepped in by any stretch of the imagination.
fedthepoopy
The whole point of this post was saying that we should not have gone into Syria though...
Shadowbreakr
Hindsight is 20/20 but saying Iran has nothing to do with Syria is just wrong
Cuddliestfish
Also hindsight a bitch. if the league of nations knew punishing Germany would lead to some really bad juju.. pretty sure that wouldn't have
Kratoffel
Punishing a country after a fucking world war is something different than invading a country and overthow the goverment.
cTrix
Apparently not.
ElPoloDiablo
Factually speaking a lot of leaders were fully aware that it was a 'truce for twenty years', as I believe Foch described it.
LLCoolBeans
Foch thought the treaty was too lenient though, not too harsh. Most of the French military was firmly in favor of dismantling Germany fully.
ElPoloDiablo
True enough, but it was generally agreed that it was too middle ground.
IAintGivingMyNameToAMachine
In the UK we had the biggest ever demonstration in our history against invading Iraq. People knew we were going in for the wrong reasons.
Swa9Dra9on
You can say hindsight a bitch, but the US has been doing this "supply out favourite rebels" for literally decades. And it blew up every time
mrmarmaladescience
It's a little more nuanced than that, even if Versailles never happened, the Germans were utterly convinced by the stabbed in the back myth.
LLCoolBeans
You're right on that, a lot of Hitler's propaganda that wasn't directed at Versailles focused on the November Revolution and Kiel Mutiny.
AdolphusHitler
League of Nations never existed, it fell apart because America didn't join. The Treaty of Versailles did that to Germany.
squip
It was patently clear that the Iraq War would leave a massive power vacuum to just about anyone who cared about facts.
youaintseenme
Sure, but if you mess up in the same exact way for 70 years, at some point you just need to learn to stay the fuck out.
ninmonkey
And Carthage regrets crossing rome
Abapcathlapisconostic
I believe, John Keyes was one that complained "the Treaty" did nothing to turn enemy into neighbor. Obvs they didn't listen.
PatMB
+1 for solid use of Bad Juju
TheChandrian
It did lead to some really bad German jewjew.
Zacandyman
Lol
Draevan13
Nyther53
A lot of people saw that coming, just like a lot of people predicted invading Iraq was stupid.
randomlex
Not the right people, sadly...
hottpunkchick
"A lot" is how many exactly? Were they giving intelligent arguments for their positions or just making arbitrary predictions?
Nyther53
against the invasion.
Nyther53
Of Particular note was General Newbold, who predicted there would be an insurgency which would require massive troop numbers to suppress.
hottpunkchick
And what was his alternative? Should we have done nothing and just waited to see what happened?
Nyther53
A lot is most of the CIA and a substantial portion of the United States military's Officer Corps. Several Generals were fired for counseling
Nyther53
He was told that he was "the product of everything that was wrong with the military" and his objections were dismissed.
khuan
A lot is millions of us who marched because we knew that there were no WMDs and that a war would destabilize the region, which it did.
RoamingEast
Basically every General that wasnt trying to advance their career. Shinseki got sacked for voicing what the brass had been thinking for year
RoamingEast
the entire was was planned by morons who never served and when actually soldiers tried to enlighten them they were replaced.
NatiLite
Agreed, though I still upvoted the dudes post for awareness. HOWEVER, he simplified this way too much. You can't put a blame on a single
scabab
Donald Rumsfeld and the DOD explicitly outlined their aim to destabilise the region and create "a key state that supports terrorism". 1/2
TheThingNoNotThatOne
He also leaves out information that would ruin his thesis, such as the captured weapons were left behind for the Iraqi Army to use.
IAmDrBanner
And regardless of whose fault it is that they exist or if they are the byproduct of mistakes, they are still asshats that need a beating.
sidfromtoystory
that goes without saying. at least by assessing what happened and how they formed we can learn for the future
MrPredator
Agreed. You simplify things too much, a good portion of the information gets lost.
scabab
2/2 BUT HEY, cant put blame on a single action of just one group, no matter how successful it is.
coffeeaddict87
Of course he simplified it. This is imgur not an academic journal
khuan
Without the US invasion there would be no ISIS. That is a stone cold fact.
NatiLite
You might as well say then that without Hussein then there would be no ISIS. that's the problem with this post and especially your
NatiLite
Completely generalized opinion. It's way to generalized.
khuan
Without Hussein there may well have been something like ISIS years earlier. As horrible as he was he held off the extremists. 1/2
NatiLite
By committing genocide. YOUR OPINIONS AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE IS SHOWING
khuan
One of bin Laden's gripes was that the US fought the first gulf war and Mujihadeen forces.
NatiLite
Again, your opinion is showing. The key term used is "western powers"
khuan
Not even close to the same thing. The US came in and destroyed the infrastructure and civil society and ISIS rose because of it.
MrPink1
You're completely ignoring the fact that we spent years and billions of dollars building shit and training the Iraq military...
NatiLite
Whatever helps you sleep better at night.
NatiLite
Whatever helps you sleep better at night.
ClubsCantHandleMe
I agree that he should have mentioned how saudi arabia and iran were involved as well.
NatiLite
Action of just one group
Madfox40
I think using "north" country or nato could be better, a lot of them have their own part in this problem. Sorry for bad english
soso456
a lot of south and east countries does too
Madfox40
ok, everyone who is not ISIS then :D
gijensen
He blamed it on a bunch of actions actually. You're over-simplifying OP's post.
soso456
he is oversimplifying everything to the point he just jump to the conclusion he wanted first. Blaming his government.
gijensen
You're assuming he did that, also he's not alone on his beliefs. I find it doubtul many people randomly came to the same conclusion
cottagecheese18
"ISIS is entirely a creation of the United States’ behavior in Iraq."-OP Pretty sure he just blamed it on one group.
gijensen
I didn't say he didn't.
NatiLite
Not enough actions
gijensen
It's a fairly long post, it seems reasonable to not expect OP to cover absolutely everything.
NatiLite
Not enough actions
rylecx
The only problem with this is the radical groups have done stuff like this regardless of reason. Pretending this is all U.S. based is a joke
DoctorWatchamacallit
well yeah, but the point is that Iraq war was what allowed them to get into power. (actually it was pulling out of Iraq prematurely,
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) something that the military had advised Obama would be a bad idea FOR THIS VERY REASON) but nobody wants to admit that they indirectly
DoctorWatchamacallit
3) caused ISIS by voting to get out of Iraq.
GrimRiderJ
Caused. Isis by never having voted to get into Iraq. Good thing we got all those WMDs
DoctorWatchamacallit
Iraq had PLENTY of them. Iraq had a history of using them, and sure enough we found them. Ever heard of the Halabja gas attack?
GrimRiderJ
I said good thing.
DoctorWatchamacallit
wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or not sorry
bohemiancrabcity
That and the heavy handed anti sunni raq government that was elected. Notice Obama didn't authorize strikess until that gov was replaced
rylecx
Shhh you hurting the pro- liberal agenda. Don't logic that whole thing
Sofilofi
More anti-war, isolationist conservatives were part of it as well. It's not all a party thing.
sidfromtoystory
stop fucking making it about parties, it's pathetic. both have blood on their hands
rylecx
it's not about the blood, it's about the agenda behind it and whether it was worth something or not