Dogespuder
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Feb 24, 2017 6:02 PM
Dogespuder
524631
14918
610
(in about 4 minutes and 43 seconds before I quit)
Katygsdrescue
I think there is a big difference between factory farming and family farming.
dotheevolution1364
Also a big difference between feeding thousands of families vs a few families
aerleo86
I grew up on a working pork farm. Our pigs were never in cages like this. They were kept outside and only restricted to their pens.
Astaroth95
Did they fall over and crush their own piglets or not? Or is this something that's only required because they're in cages to begin with?
aerleo86
No ours never fell over and crushed the piglets and we didn't put them in cages. They were in large outdoor pens.
LoTRFanatic42
If you work on a local farm you may not see this, but the things animals are put through on industrial farms are cruel and disgusting.
Ursella
I guess it would just be more thoughtful if they were on some grass or some shit.
Felse
Fuck anyone who believes this is okay. People should be ashamed of themselves.
attagirl
I'm pretty sick of seeing these pictures circulating just to give everyone a false sense of security. Animal cruelty is a very real issue.
DeletedProfiles
There's an organic farm near my house, the pigs have their own field with shelter. They're super happy and it shows. Must get pics...
ashamedson
Said the stable boy
Zombraina
*screamed the stable boy
Babypowderbitch
Working on your own dairy farm does not mean you know how mass production places treat their animals. Thus, why buying local is great.
fullerslondonpride
Banned in the uk.
MikeAracter
I Am the Walrus
mostellerhannah3
Not completely. Farrowing crates are still used in the uk but the pig can't be in there its entire life. I have photos if youre interested.
kiwiflavored
Same in Germany. 4 weeks at a time is the limit, I think. In between, the sow must be able to live as part of a herd.
mostellerhannah3
Yep exactly the same here. In between they tend to live with a large group of females and 1 boar and so the cycle continues.
Madd1
Banned in all developed countries i believe other the USA as usual.
blurgh
Nah, for example Denmark treat animals as shitty.
Madd1
Denmark was one of the front runners of converting. The practice is banned in Europe .
blurgh
Denmark regularly keep pigs in tiny cages. Their treatment of animals is notorious.
Madd1
Take it you have never been to Denmark and are a vegan or something to have false ideas like that. Denmark has banned halal slaughter .
TmdoeuQ
This depends on the state now, many are getting rid of them, it does prevent them from eating or laying on their babies but is fucked up
someweirdname
Grew up on a lifestyle block, we raised kune kunes and there were a few occasions where mum rolled over and accidentally crushed a piglet
shinobikat
So brown cows don't produce chocolate milk?! I feel like I can't trust anyone now.
MrPietar
People seem so shocked when they see images like this but they still eat their junk big macs and bukets of chicken with out a second thought
BossCar9
And then the weight comes and they still eat a Triple Whopper cuz why not. The reason why have an obesity issue is that fast food 1/2
BossCar9
was not meant to be eaten all the time, but people do that nowadays. That's a completely different issue, though.
proudomnivore
Looks like your mom is into bdsm
prismbear
aside from this false information, there is some dark shit that goes on in the meat industry. nobody can deny that.
kiwiflavored
Of course. Modern mass agriculture as a whole is cruel to animals, including wild animals, and environmentally irresponsible. Pesticides...
kiwiflavored
kill a lot of wildlife in very cruel ways (e.g., rodenticides that cause slow organ calcification and internal bleeding) and are spread...
kiwiflavored
through the food chain. Owls or foxes can die a slow and painful death after eating one cholecalciferol-poisoned rodent too many. Even...
kiwiflavored
organic farmers use cholicalciferol rodenticides and other pesticides that wreak havoc on natural ecosystems. The entire system is broken
kiwiflavored
And it's not just pesticides. Fertilizer runoff causes algae overgrowth that slowly suffocates fish and other freshwater animals. Mono- ...
BossCar9
Honestly, I don't think they're would be so much debate over meat if the meat industry actually had humane treatment for said animals.
VBot
If it's humane but looks shocking to someone who doesnt understand it, there will still be a neg reaction
prismbear
I don't think there's a humane way to create everyone's beloved veal
veganfortheanimals69
Well said
kamikazehindenburg
Both may be right. 60-70% of pigs are kept in these for the entire pregnancy, but it is illegal in some states, and so black bar might 1/?
kamikazehindenburg
from an area that doesn't use them like that. Also, he is from a dairy farm and so probably doesn't have as much experience with pigs 2/?
anywho2011
Most dairy farmers I know also raise pigs & chickens. But I may be an anomaly.
gamesthatiplay
I have worked at a pig farm. Yep nursing crates. If they were on their side all their life they couldn't walk No packing house would take em
gamesthatiplay
You wouldn't have that space on the side if it weren't for piglets to be. Think of how many more full pigs you can fit without that space.
ImgurPremiumAccount
I member when my uncle got some pigs before getting these metal crates. Squashed piglets EVERYWHERE!
ChewingSoup
Then put them in a larger enclosure where they can actually avoid laying on their babies?
JuanMoreNight
It's not an issue of space, it's an issue of the mother just plopping down wherever she feels like
ChewingSoup
It may happen from time to time, as it does with all animals (we even had a dog do that). But pigs are very conscious of their babies.
ChewingSoup
It's definitely an issue of space if it happens so often that they have to use gestation crates. Look at how tiny those commercial pens are.
SuperPickle17
You obviously never been around pigs. They are big, fat, and with the brain of a toddler. And stubborn as hell.
ChewingSoup
Also, they are damn intelligent. They act just like a dog. And if you don't know that, then you've obviously never been around them.
ChewingSoup
Ha! Grew up around them from 6-17. Everyone knows pigs are fat and stubborn, so no need to tell me. Doesn't, make them bad parents, at all.
firebreatheralpha
If you work at a small farm, congrats, you may not see the awful shit that goes down with industrial farming. I have. It's far worse.
skelitor120
He did say he worked on NUMEROUS farms. The point of this post was not to assume a stranger's experience to push a narrative argument.
sbdblyss1337
Nah. You all hate on farms and have no knowledge of what is going on.
FlamboyantTitans
Plus, the Patriot Act makes it an act of terrorism to film the cruel practices! Murica'!
sbdblyss1337
The patriot act is gone....
FlamboyantTitans
nah, it's still there...
ClockWork2011
Regardless he is correct about the purpose of that cage.
VBot
Yep, only two options are killing the babies, or confinement, short term or otherwise. Don't humanize your food.
ellei
Yep, but there is other way to mâle sure she doesn't lay on the piglets, like giving a lot more espace and making in the box a small place 1
ellei
Where the piglets can sleep away from the mother
EmersonWhite
No, not really. Piglet mortality goes up if you let them outside before they are big enough. Farrow crate or dead piglets, only two options.
ellei
I don't mean outside, I mean more espace for both de mother and the piglets and a specofic espace for thé babies with de mother where
ellei
She can't crush them
Ihavewaytoomanyfavoritestosort
I don't understand how people can be so heartlessly cruel to the animals in an industrial farm.
macthelost
Dude. We fucking eat them. Why is nobody pissed that we force our cereal into a box until we consume it?
macthelost
Also vat grown meat is available now but expensive. If people really cared we would be supporting that alternative.
AttiVaan
And people don't always have a choice. "Good care" in big farms takes LOTS of money. And hard to make a living with a small farm nowadays :(
jaderbug12
We're not. The vast majority of us are not. And those who are disgust the rest of us.
Tyranderdog
The vast majority is horrible. Some of you are okay.
jaderbug12
Dude... no.
Ihavewaytoomanyfavoritestosort
Then why have conditions not improved?
jaderbug12
What makes you think they haven't? Will you explain what your understanding is?
Ihavewaytoomanyfavoritestosort
Well, why to veal calves have to be in tiny-ass pens with a diet of so little iron they lick their own urine because they're deprived?
dotheevolution1364
Such as?
ketchup312
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestation_crate
randomfan276
Well, that was disturbing. Enlightening, though, so thanks for the link.
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Individualsocksinthewashingmachine
That's not limited to industrial farming
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Individualsocksinthewashingmachine
The question he raised was about industrial farming wasn't it?
TheManTheMythTheMildDissapointment
I agree. Im a farmer and former swine exhibitor. The first time i put my barrow on the truck it felt like 9yo me was dunked in ice water.
VBot
What was the part you found disturbing? What part was the 'awful shit' to do with industrial farms like in the above comment?
TheManTheMythTheMildDissapointment
It was far from a pleasant experience
anywho2011
I think he means the use of the barrow and such? I'll admit, I worked my grandad's farm and have my own horse farm but am puzzled too.
VBot
Please explain? Was it your first time dealing with death or was crueltu actually involved? Specify.
MyFavoriteThingtoDoisFlakeOnPlans
Yeah what the fuck does that mean
Kaysmira
Apparently he raised a male neutered pig (barrow) from a piglet and then had to sell it for slaughter. He was conflicted and felt weird.
MyFavoriteThingtoDoisFlakeOnPlans
2spooky5me
Moomalicious
Barrow = castrated male pig. Maybe they transport them inhumanely?
ohiohobbyzooadventures
"Terminal" meaning that the animals are sold and then the buyer picks out a butcher, and the animal is taken there then slaughtered
VBot
What do you know about slaughter? What method did they use? Death itself is not wrong. How its done is significant.
ohiohobbyzooadventures
My local auctions use 3 nearby slaughter places, all USDA, and they're well known for being clean and humane. They typically...
ohiohobbyzooadventures
If you're in 4H, etc. a lot of times you don't have a choice. My local 4H auction is terminal. All auction animals must be slaughtered.
VBot
What do yoy think is wrong with a controlled death?
ohiohobbyzooadventures
What do you mean? I don't see anything wrong with it. You know beforehand that if you put your animal in the auction that's what'll happen.
ohiohobbyzooadventures
No, he means the slaughter truck. It's common for kids to raise, show, and then sell animals yearly. Usually the sales are terminal
VBot
Having to face death itself is always traumatic, but putting stress on the animal is negative financially, it affecta the meat. If there was
VBot
cruelty in spite of that they could specify...
bangnull
Look up gestation crates there pretty fucked up.
Individualsocksinthewashingmachine
So is watching a sow crush a full litter of piglets to death
ChewingSoup
Sows don't crush their piglets when they're given adequate room to move around. They're quite aware of their surroundings.
Individualsocksinthewashingmachine
It would be nice if that could be the case everywhere
pctaxy7
It's a farrowing crate, it keeps the sow (mother pig) from crushing her piglets
pdunn32
I want to help but not actually do anything. Is there a like button that I can press that gives me a smug sense of participation?
srdalyssa
Can we all still agree that the meat industry in the US is cruel? Cos it most definitely is cruel....
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Biteymcbiteface
OP seems to be swedish.
Zahnradfee
Not only in the US.
veganfortheanimals69
Please try to go vegan!!! I say it with love for my imgur friends..these animals suffer! I know y'all hate PETA but they help with animal ag
Cornealeus
I work cows. I torture animals in my free time, not at work. That would be unprofessional.
DickwadMcDucking
Yeah, but have you ever raised a pig?
kiwiflavored
Yes,and it should be changed via legislation."Meat is murder" hysteria is counterproductive. Raise awareness w/o misinformation or hyperbole
srdalyssa
I agree.
shivermyimgurs
I hate that people can't see how keeping hundreds of animals in close quarters and in usually poor conditions isn't cruel.
anitabieror6
i just think if you want to show the cruelty, show how it really is. not fake propaganda like this pic. plenty to show without making it up
shivermyimgurs
Just because you eat meat, does'nt mean you have to put up a rainbow barrier so you don't have to think about where your food is coming from
shivermyimgurs
Educate yourself.
jaderbug12
'Usually poor conditions'- what's your basis and comparison for this statement? What's your experience with animal housing?
n0n53n53
I guess. Something that only exists for killing and eating should be treated nice before killing and eating it?
VBot
Treating it nice actually makes the meat taste better. Not kidding.
srdalyssa
Uh yeah. It's called humanity.
JuanMoreNight
And letting piglets die from their mother laying on them is preferable? Because that is the intent of the crate
mostellerhannah3
But unfortunately, factory farms don't want to take on the increased cost involved with larger pens and straw provision.
mostellerhannah3
This isnt the alternative if we were to give moms straw. In the wild pigs build nests. Give them a large pen, straw and no squished piglets.
jimmyriba
That's a false dichotomy. How about: raising them in conditions with space enough that the mothers don't accidentally kill their piglets?
VBot
If the sows can move then there will be mortality. They're heavy and clumsy. Its not a matter of space.
jimmyriba
Yet, somehow they've managed to survive through 4.5 billion years of evolution. That's a really silly claim.
VBot
I'm not saying they would kill ALL of their offspring. Theres a reason they have so many.
srdalyssa
Piglets get castrated and have their tails cut off without anesthetic and tossed into bleeding piles of piglets so either way it is cruel...
Jelmddddddddddddd
That's to stop them from biting each others tails off while teething. It is cruel though
mkingi
If they did use anesthetics, people would be making a fuss about "dangerous chemicals" in their food. There's no way to please everyone :(
jimmyriba
There is, though: not cutting off the tails, and giving them enough space that filling them with antibiotics isn't necessary.
mkingi
So, you'd rather have them continually fight, injure each other, and suffer from bacterial infections?
JustFeedMePieDammit
Babies get circumcised without anestetic too, there's no push to get that practise banned though...
lostnortherner
there kinda is a movement to have parents stop needlessly cutting their babies dicks though.....
JustFeedMePieDammit
They're not as loud or annoying as PETA or those anti abortion yobs who hang out on roadsides, though.
srdalyssa
Weak analogy
jimmyriba
There is, though, and male genital mutilation *should* be banned just as FGM.
JustFeedMePieDammit
Should be, but it's tied to religious and traditional views and so I imagine it'll be hard to dislodge. :/
jaderbug12
I work in the industry- just because it doesn't look the way Chipotle wants you to believe doesn't make it cruel. AMA
srdalyssa
How is it not?
anywho2011
Because much of the stuff you see in videos is edited propaganda made to make you think it is widespread. That is not the case industry wide
srdalyssa
Evidence?
jaderbug12
Personal testimony. I've been involved in swine production my entire life, been in many different facilities, I've never witnessed -
SamuraiBatgirl
Got your first question. Are farmers doing anything to make it less "cruel" (for lack of a better word), at least in the eyes of the public?
jaderbug12
Absolutely! We are trying to be more transparent about our processes all the time. We're not trying to hide anything. The industry is -
jaderbug12
changing and evolving constantly, trying to meet consumer demands. We do hear you and we do listen, but it isn't feasible -
jaderbug12
to farm the same ways we did in the 1950s, not with the world we have today.
Astaroth95
I just came back after watching this: http://freefromharm.org/animal-cruelty-investigation/co2-stunning-pigs/ 2:39+ in particular, thoughts?
mkingi
To be fair, "Free From Harm" really nitpicks content for propaganda. Not saying the pork industry is 100% humane, but they do exaggerate it.
jaderbug12
First of all, I've seen CO2 stunning in person at plants- I think it's a great option to have for several reasons. Right off the bat my -
jaderbug12
first observation is this animal handling is AWFUL. I've never been on a kill floor/live side that was this loud- vocalizations mean -
jaderbug12
these animals are stressed and being improperly handled. Use of prods in plants in the US is strictly prohibited and monitored, and -
xo66nt
Hi, i also want to believe that everything is cool in the meat industry but Im not dumb enough. I think if I base my opinions on screensh>>
xo66nt
>>screenshots from facebook in turn based on testimony from whoever and their statistically insignificant experience, i too can believe >>
xo66nt
>> that pigs are treated humanely and that economic interest never compromises their quality of life or is downright cruel. >>
xo66nt
I love bacon but pretending everything is fine and dandy for the pigs is hypocrisy.
GaspodeTheW0nderD0g
Good thing is that at least Facebook is making the realities a lot harder to ignore so ppl are encouraged to do their own research.
Samgerine
Yeah but factory farming does exist, animals are put through hell, and it is a problem. Bad example here, but you can't deny it happens.
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VBot
Troll or stupid, don't care which
Cheesesaveslives
I'm denying it happens
LiterallyYourMom
Then, you know, find accurate pictures and researched sources.
HighwayStar
but this doesn't show that. Pigs in "factory farming" have a hundred times more room than this pictued pig has.
ottermad88
And the battery cage pictured has been known to house pigs for longer than a couple hours
Potatoes2323
I can deny anything! Officer
wfwood
those cages still arent legal in much of the world. just bc this guy has experience on a farm doesnt mean these cages are humane.
lostnortherner
Thank you. Growing up my best friends lived on a battery pig farm and I saw how the pigs lived, they were kept in cages very much like the 1
lostnortherner
one in the OP, they were unable to turn round and kept in complete darkness. The buildings were rammed full of cages and they made noise /2
lostnortherner
constantly, I can still picture the windowless buildings and the rows of cages. I thought it was normal, looking back it was horrific. /3
veganfortheanimals69
People really have no idea!!! They really believe pigs are happy in these crates with their babies. No fking way!They are smarter than dogs
EngineerZero
Do you still eat meat after seeing that? Honestly curious.
Arich26
I'm denying AND I'm not hungry.. life is so good
Banditsalmon
Those animals are taken care of better than most people take care of their kids.
Samgerine
I think you'll find that is completely false.
skelitor120
They didn't deny it happens. They denied that this is proof of it. Because it's not. And using fake evidence to draw support is alt facts
veganfortheanimals69
Thank you. Thank you for saying this. I know people gate vegans. But it's for the animals!!! Not for an image. It's not fashion!They suffer
ItsUncleSam
We breed them to eat them, who cares how they live if they'll die in 6 months.
VBot
Growth is linked to wellbeing. Get used to it.
KettleHill
As someone who raises animals for milk and meat, I care deeply.
VBot
Are you a sociopath? No one thinks that way, and its actually financially infeasable to think that way
diabolicalpenguinarmyoverulesallupvotes
Because they trust you and are the most innocent among us. They are social creatures each with a unique personality. They feel pain and fear
Samgerine
Anyone with a heart, dude.
ItsUncleSam
I don't give a fuck where my food comes from, just like I don't care that no less than 9 people died in the process of getting me my iPhone.
veganfortheanimals69
You're going to live such a long healthy life! Keep it up buddy!!
ReeseMisee
You're such a selfish ass... I hope you're happy living like that. I hope you actually care about something other than yourself. I truly do.
ItsUncleSam
I care about my country and I care about my family, that's all I need to care about.
deathbycheese
grew up on a farm. are live stock had piasters to roam in and grass to eat. Things have changed a lot in the last 40 years.
javer80
What's a piaster?
VBot
Is change wrong?
eroso
Depends on what you value more... ethics or profits?
lostnortherner
Usually when welfare (for either human or animal life) is put a distant second to turning a profit then the change isn't so good.
Nigbac
Lol farms are very diverse and dissimilar from one another. Just because your farm was free range that doesn't mean thousands aren't.
eroso
Well no, they aren't non-free range because his farm was. They are generally non-free range bc the field is competitive af.
Nigbac
What are u even trying to say? I'm saying g just because your farm and some others were nice, doesn't mean that MOST or ALL farms are too.
eroso
Read your comment again. You said the reverse logic by mistake:"Just because your farm was free range that doesn't mean thousands _aren't_."
VBot
Field animals are also put at risk of attacks or disease from wild animals or poisoning from plants. Or tuberculosis. Or parasites.
eroso
Sure! That's called life.
Usernameisalreadyregisteredwasalreadyregistered
To be fair, you can't assert it does happen without evidence.
heretohelp
www.humanesociety.org Use the search function. Or, you know, just google it. There's plenty of evidence to be found.
VBot
I wish the humane society was about good treatment of animals in practical ways. I truly wish that.
supernaturalisalwaysrelevant
I support HSUS, but they are an animal rights group and will use anything to further their agenda. Biased info, etc.
AaaaandIiiiiiWillAlwaysLoooooooveYooooouuuuuuu
That is the worst possible source you could have cited.
Samgerine
Go look up fois grois farming, have a laugh.
Presquire
Wait, are we seriously just going to leave this man here without at least giving him a link?
Airhats
A link to prove factory farming exists is almost pointless. Plus few moments of thought and you could discern it's probably not comfortable.
Usernameisalreadyregisteredwasalreadyregistered
Apparently. Most of what I've seen comes straight from PETA, and since they're known for being standup honest people they can fuck off.
Airhats
Peta are just a bit too confrontational aggressive and exclusionary. Not going to convince anyone in the way they attempt to.
subluxate
Is the HSUS acceptable? (Genuinely asking.) http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/confinement_farm/facts/gestation_crates.html
Usernameisalreadyregisteredwasalreadyregistered
Eh. To a degree. I find it somewhat disappointing - no mention of why the crates are used or explorations of reasonable alternatives.
Airhats
People do assert things without evidence all the time. But anyone thinking factory farming doesn't exist lives in fairy land.
Usernameisalreadyregisteredwasalreadyregistered
There's also a crapton of people, groups, etc. who will claim absolutely anything meateaters do is cruel/inhumane/whatever because (1)
Usernameisalreadyregisteredwasalreadyregistered
they eat meat. I prefer not to take things at face value on this topic.
Airhats
I wouldn't say there is a lot of groups but that depends on how you look at it. Like always there's good people regardless of lifestyle (1)
Airhats
that the standards may vary in all 90 billion cases and undue suffering may occur. Especially in countries with less regulation (4).
Airhats
product is that something has to die. I believe the figure is upwards of 90 billion a year will be slaughtered. I think it's safe to say (3)
Airhats
habits. Eating meat doesn't make you evil. It is fair to say that the creation of those products does cause harm. A requirement of the (2)
ukarage
I saw this example and it was not for a small tome or to avoid crushing babies. It was for all winter (in France : Bretagne in 2013).
VBot
If that is true then it is extremely unusual and wrong. These are used, but not in that way.
ukarage
1/2 Well, I saw that in live so yeah, that was true. They also had no light (so they don't move too much and to avoid electricity fees).
ukarage
2/2 that's not the case in 100% of the farms of course, but I don't think that was the only case in the meat industry that this happened
relicen
Some countries, here in Europe, treat livestock terribly.
ukarage
Some countries everywhere in my opinion :(
steam0engenius
While I'm sure there is plenty of shitty treatment for a lot of animals in a lot of places, spreading misinformation like this won't help.
Samgerine
This genuinely isn't meant to be agressive, I'm just wondering what the misinformation is exactly?
UmbraPenumbra
Don't use false evidence to prove a true statement. Had it shown a crated pig, he wouldn't have objected, as some are so treated, 1/2
DarkWhiteWolf
I don't believe steam meant your comment, but the illusion that the original post in post seems to suggest all animals are abused on farms.
GaspodeTheW0nderD0g
The reality is that MOST animals are abused on all FACTORY farms, however. I've been reading into this for a while and there are 1/2
GaspodeTheW0nderD0g
a lot of trustworthy sources online that aren't PETA dickheads. Buy organic/free range if you can (though I believe U.S. has a lot of wk 2/3
Thisworldisgoingdownhill
The picture above, having been proved harmless, was used to make a point about the actual poor treatment of animals.
blurgh
He is right, they spend months in these crates.
TeachMeStuff
Got a source there buddy? An actual, valid source?
Gardosurro
When it says "The meat industry locks up pigs" as if it was the case everywhere, all the time.Also posting a picture that isn't what it says
VBot
Also the idea that confinement is the worst scenario. Cannibalism and agression are real, don't humanize your food and call it ethical.
VBot
The misinformation is that the confinement is worse than the outcome of freedom. Confinement means less agency, but less cannibalism and
VBot
less harm to young animals. Overall less harm and less stress means better meat quality and greater profits for farmers.
UmbraPenumbra
But in showing a pig in a temporary restraint, the false evidence is disproven, and the assertion is now also suspect.
whiskeyforbreakfast
As an animal farmer, it's pretty rare for animals to be "put through hell." Let's entertain the notion that a farmer is heartless: miserable
Samgerine
Rare doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
whiskeyforbreakfast
Animals don't produce well, you literally lose money the less happy your animals are.
VBot
This is so true! Efficient farmers are ethical farmers.
VBot
Do you think this example is the norm? What aspect of factory farming disturbs you? Do you think the human concept of freedom is more 1/2
Samgerine
The pain some animals go through due to factory farming disturbs me, the unsafe and unhealthy environment they live in does too 1/3
Samgerine
As for harm, they are often in pain all their lives in the conditions they live in. So yeah, that all disturbs me.
Samgerine
Animals in factory farming are exposed to so much stress, all the time. That's pretty much a given. 2/3
VBot
important than reduction of harm and stress? Is cannibalism or accidental death of young worth anything? 2/2
Samgerine
here's some sauce: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras#Force-feeding_procedure I know it's wiki but it gives most of the info you need.
VBot
We were talking about farrowing crates though... that's not related at all
Samgerine
You asked what aspects of factory farming disturb me?
fnordgasm5
The overuse of antibiotics disturbs me. Factory farms are basically boot camps for antibiotic resistant bacteria.
VBot
Yeah, prophylactic or growth use is high risk for that. A lot of places don't do that. But I'm in Canada. May be different.
buddbilly
Hmmm, Kobe bacon…
GreenYawgmoth
kobecon.
Redbrickadam
Call Japan we have a new project for them.
Misslnformation
Veal bacon
SaraFourImgur
So just fat?
Gcleff
Isn't Kobe when they massage the animal constantly or something like that?
dooremouse
With sake.
secretlibby
I think they let cows drink the sake. Dumping alcohol on their skin would dry it out.
ginastringr
He's black and good at basketball, but you can't just call him animal, dude. Come on.
TwoCheese
But he looooves massages
firebreatheralpha
Dude in black's a fucking moron. Sows ARE kept in these crates for most of their breeding and adult life. For months a year at the least.
TylerStark
Almost 30 year in the business and a family in the business. He must be a moron and have no idea what he is talking about.
dandelionbomb
Like he said, he worked on a family farm. That's very different than our industrialized pig farms.
TylerStark
Said he owned a farm never said how big it was.
hardytardigrade
So? That doesn't prove he worked on a factory farm.
TylerStark
I don't recall saying he did
arcenlapin
Exactly. Never said how big it was, so it doesn't state it's a factory farm or a local family farm. Your argument works against you as well.
YourMumKnowsMe
Yeah, in the US. It is outlawed in Australia and Europe
Biteymcbiteface
OP seems to be swedish though.
cryingangel
AND I AM NORWEGIAN
Biteymcbiteface
Ok?
cryingangel
just thought you should know
YourMumKnowsMe
Yeah. He isn't American. I don't know why the US has such bad animal welfare.
swinglinered
Because Gawd Almighty put all of the creatures of the world here to be exploited. Any obstacle to profit is a violation of economic freedom.
PricklyGoo
They're called gestation crates, and apparently they are locked in them for months.
bfd230
"apparently"
lDanielHolm
Farrowing crates and gestation crates are different. That's a farrowing crate. Also, gestation crates are banned in many places.
lDanielHolm
THIS is a gestation crate: http://animallawcoalition.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gestation-crates.jpg
HD2composer
Quick read: http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/confinement_farm/facts/gestation_crates.html very saddening
mkingi
Idk man, the Human Society also euthanizes thousands of animals instead of loosening their adoption requirements. I've always been >>>
mkingi
>>> a little skeptical of their views. They didn't let me adopt a kitten with a pink nose because I said it would be allowed outdoors and>>>
mkingi
>>>they'd rather euthanize it as a baby than let it run the small risk of skin cancer later in life (because pink nose and indoor/outdoor).
mkingi
Kind of makes you wonder if they're running a political smear campaign or actually care about animals' welfare (pets and food alike)
aerleo86
We never used these and never had a problem, either.
Znayx
It happens in nature though... Better safe than sorry. Plus, seems a couple weeks is all that's necessary if they're doing it right.
HighlandPotatoe
From what I read up there wasn't actually much difference in crush rates between crated and uncrated, but it's not been researched fully
mkingi
It seems like it's not about crushing so much as infighting. Dont nursing pigs seek out small spaces anyway because it makes them feel safe?
aerleo86
I'd rather the sow and piglets be freer than engage in a perception of safety based on mechanically separating a sow from her piglets.
FluffyPuddles
Wikipedia says about gestation crates: in intensive pig farming, a (sow) may be kept caged during pregnancy & for most of her adult life.
mkingi
It also said that some farms use voluntary crates where the pigs can enter a large open space at will, but they still spend 90% of the time>
mkingi
>in the crates because pregnant pigs like the feeling of safety that small spaces provide. The crate isn't all bad, just overused sometimes.
anywho2011
And Wikipedia is edited by? I can go in there right now and edit that to say otherwise and the next person will believe it.
lDanielHolm
There's no need to go after Wikipedia on this. Wikipedia is generally accurate and sources most of their information.
mkingi
Yeah but often the sources are dead links and some outdated/unreliable sources are used. Really depends on the article though.
FluffyPuddles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestation_crate
lDanielHolm
And that's not a gestation crate. Read the actual article instead of just the first few words.
FluffyPuddles
The gestation&farrowing crate are used one after the other as described in the wiki link. Obviously, no room here to quote the whole post.
lDanielHolm
Gestation crates are illegal in many places, such as the EU, whereas farrowing crates are not. Farrowing crates are used after giving birth.
callmeLadyMoose
Sounds like large factory farms keep the sows in the crates for extended periods, but local farms don't.
lDanielHolm
Gestation crates are banned in many places, though they're apparently widespread in the US.
Sheprador
Local farms are quickly becoming a thing of the past.
greggor
So what you're saying is that local farms are better than large factory farms???
castororpollux
Mine stayed in crate for about 30 days or till their piglets hit ~14 lbs. Then back out to the open. Big operators have them permanently in.
KeeleonOhms
Plants are buried in the ground their whole life.
newsguycraigevans
JahSpermit
You are gods messenger
halborski
YourMumKnowsMe
Depends on the country. Pretty sure it's outlawed in most of Europe and Australia too.
Biteymcbiteface
I know there where a proposition to use them in sweden, and if sweden uses it I'm pretty shure it's not uncommon in the rest of Europe.
heretohelp
Bbq Sauce - http://www.australianpigfarmers.com.au/sowstalls_and_farrowing_crates
heretohelp
Also Coles (1 of our biggest retailers) refuses to buy from farms that use them. Dont know about woolies etc
YourMumKnowsMe
I'm Australian I know what Coles and woolies is
heretohelp
Not entirely true. Sow stalls and farrowing crates aee not banned in australia, although many farms have pledged to discontinue their use
YourMumKnowsMe
Oh. Well it seems public education has failed me again.
HighlandPotatoe
It makes me thankful that these are banned in most of Europe including the uk
callmethelizardqueen
So they just let the babies be crushed?
lDanielHolm
We use farrowing cages, but only up to around 4 weeks after giving birth.
callmethelizardqueen
Sooo not banned in UK? I really dont trust anything on the internet.
lDanielHolm
Denmark. Farrowing crates aren't banned but gestation crates are.
HighlandPotatoe
No, they get much larger pens with heat lamps away from mum to essentially encourage them to stay at the lamps and go to mum for food
mostellerhannah3
Not much larger, worked on a pig farm in the uk and the mum has just enough room to stand up & lay down on her other side.
SomeGuyWhoKnowsStuff
Europe seems to have better agriculture related laws than the US does. Also better laws regarding pasteurization.
grai
also RSPCA has more powers to remove animals from cruel owners in the US it seems its almost impossible also dogs are treatedreally badly
DenverCoderIX
And then you have these fuckers, who live better and lead more meaningful lives than most humans: wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Iberian_Pig
SchitzzPoppinov
That's some fucked up shit. I probably won't stop eating pork though because I'm a shitty person and I feel like I can't make a difference
sciencebasedlifeform
BBaumer
You are not alone.
RosegoldEverything
You could try buying only from small local farms/families who love and care for their animals. It's not a huge dent, but it's something.
meliferingdus
One person plus two plus three equals more than nothing. Every person counts. Just like voting.
mashimaro
You would actually make a difference that affects several (pigs') lives. Also, both people and market are affected by your decisions.
MightyGlowCloud
You don't have to stop. You can probably easily cut your consumption in half though. Did it last month, no hardship so far.
Erocitnam
Relatable. :(
maerianne
How about eating less of it? Instead of every day, maybe only have pork a couple of times a week for instance
TotinosPizzaRolls
Also it tastes pretty good
Moomalicious
I hate it when people say this. It's better imo to just admit you know you could do better but you don't want to put in the effort.
SchitzzPoppinov
Things you said till after I had already replied to the first half
SchitzzPoppinov
I mean... I kind of did in my first comment. Also I looked back at our "conversation" and I wasn't even getting half of the
46853
Well, you can't make a difference so...good choice
lDanielHolm
The situation isn't quite as bad as this image makes it seem. Actual gestation crates (not farrowing crates as in the image) are larger 1/2
lDanielHolm
and they don't force the animal into a prone position. They're still pretty awful, though. 2/2
blurgh
to that pig youre making a massive difference.
SchitzzPoppinov
That pig is still going to sit in that cage till it is slaughtered whether I eat pork on not my man
blurgh
One less person eating pork is a few less pigs that have to live like this
FlamboyantTitans
Change is slow- one person at a time makes a difference. Once enough people create a market for alternatives, it gains traction.
Theresmyothersock
But you can still help by buying from different brands that don't support these farming techniques! :) I've learned tht from a class I took
ConsistentlyLateCommenter
That's why I started buying the eggs I do now, researched the company first. They are definitely more pricey but I feel slightly better.
ImIntoAnythingReally
Yeah, for an extra $8
GaspodeTheW0nderD0g
It's not that much more expensive but I guess it depends on your priorities.
GaspodeTheW0nderD0g
Bigger problem: those who can afford it still don't ethically buy meat so supply/demand will never get a chance to level out and priced drop
crazyhoborabbitman
In Sweden not treating animals like garbage is a selling point. Like 1/10 th dollar more expensive per 100g. How steep can the price be?
AmbulanceDriverDude
Or...I can eat bacon that's delicious and I don't have to sell my liver to afford
TheMajesticHarpyEagle
Hunt your own. Feral swine are a big problem.
AmbulanceDriverDude
Not where I live. And I'm not about to move for bacon
flavornoflavor
I went vegetarian for reasons like this, and I also feel I don't make a difference, especially around here, but I am doing my part. F haters
Znayx
Read the responses to marblesbuttonsthimblesdice's comment above on this thread... Then follow up the thread reading nuushba's comments.
Znayx
He explains exactly why it's worse for the animals to not contain the sow like that
Znayx
And I suppose some farms have different policies, but most people are saying it's just for a couple weeks.
revcleo
Tbh going veg/vegan only helps vegetable farmers, doesn't do shit to change the minds of meat farmers. If you wanna change 'em buy right.
revcleo
nb: I buy most of my meat from a farmer's market, the rest from animal friendly sources.
flavornoflavor
They still raise them to kill them. It's still inhumane
thelonepig
Only an asshole would downvote that.
blurgh
"I cant make a difference" is such a shitty reason. Everyone can make a difference.
backpacker1022
And because bacon.
DeinnsBeans
HoneyBadgerDontGiveAShitAboutUpvotes
Because mother fucking bacon
IKeepItOnMe
Grow your own damn pigs!
OtroBarry
I can never find the seeds at Wal-Mart tho
HoneyBadgerDontGiveAShitAboutUpvotes
I don't have to, someone is growing them for me. What a world we live in.
marblesbuttonsthimblesdice
Ex pig farmer, can confirm
nuushba
Worked on a ranch with a small pig operation. Longest we kept them in was 2 weeks
marblesbuttonsthimblesdice
Good! But more humane systems exist. Here's a cool example: https://www.freefarrowing.org/info/5/individual_farrowing_pens/1/pigsafe
FluffyPuddles
That's the difference between small scale and commercial. Intensive pig farming will crate them for most of their adult lives.
FluffyPuddles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestation_crate
tjcassidy
How do you think an open source web site is a legitimate reference?
hardytardigrade
Well holy shit, 2 weeks is a long-ass time to be kept in a crate that size
nuushba
Ours were big enough that the sow could move around a little. Didn't want her to crush piglets. We tried it without the crate before. (1/2)
nuushba
(2/2) had a sow lay down on top of all of her piglets killing them all. She then tried to hide the evidence by eating them
reathien
Not really. Also most now have space enough to move and turn around. Two weeks to save a whole litter of piglets from death isn't hard.
hardytardigrade
I see, thanks for the info
FizzyMango
It's like a mom being on bed rest during pregnancy. Yes it sucks, but if it saves the mom and babe from harm, it's worth it.
jtb1313
Also considering that sometimes the Mom will eat the piglets
skwotingdog
It is a farrowing crate and is used for milking.
wronggengirl
Yeah ... We kinda fucking got that from the post itself.
TheRicM
You're a farrowing crate and you're used for milking
RoboCritter
they are used for nursing piglets. not milking
RubyPorto
I have nipples, Greg, can you milk me?\
Pawnderlust
With the right hormones anything with a nipple can produce milk. My newborn son had milk, it's called witch's milk.
sabrewulf314
You can milk anything with nipples
VBot
ITS TERRIFYINGLY TRUE
onomatopotamus
according to Dr. Venture, that's a definite maybe https://youtu.be/9zvAYtEOhU0
DickMercenary
No. You can. HRT or malnutrition can cause lactation. POWs in WW2 reported lactation when their captors starved them.
FluffyPuddles
Wikipedia says about gestation crates: in intensive pig farming, a (sow) may be kept during pregnancy & for most of her adult life.
GetOffMyLawnYa
Your source is Wikipedia???
shawnspenstar
vet student here. just like with everything in life, it comes down to individuals. some use the crates well others are ass holes.
shawnspenstar
some don't use any crates and use pens instead or fields. (also i havent met a farmer that keeps sows in there for "most of her adult life")
veganfortheanimals69
But they do...local farmers are one thing. Animal agriculture is something else.
shawnspenstar
Can't comment especially bc my knowledge is based on British farms, but my point stands. It's not the crate it's how it's used.
FluffyPuddles
Agreed, the quote specifically refers to "intensive pig farming", as in large commercial operations. Only buy humanely farmed pork in the US
shawnspenstar
agreed or any animal product for that matter
stylinchilibeans
It's used to keep the mother from crushing the piglets. Not for milking. They are only in them for a few weeks.
GaspodeTheW0nderD0g
How does this work in nature? Do piglets just get killed? Also, a few weeks seems like a lot to me to be kept in the same position... ? :/
pctaxy7
That's correct
GaspodeTheW0nderD0g
How does this work in nature? Do piglets just get killed? Also, a few weeks seems like a lot to me to be kept in the same position... ? :/
VBot
It's less about nature as about what can reduce stress and harm. They can move around, but not enough to harm their offspring.
phenompbg
Infant mortality is quite high in nature. They die. A lot. That's why so many species have so many babies.
VBot
Lots of things happen in nature to cause harm and stress and pain. It is really in the farmers best interest to reduce that!
GreaterDog
What do you think the piglets do while the mother is in that cage, nipples exposed? Drink cow's milk instead? http://imgur.com/nkxCx9v
wonderboyblue
The term you're looking for is nursing
revcleo
well yeah, but the sow could be uncaged for the piglets to be allowed to drink, but then she weighs more than your mum and will kill several
revcleo
completely accidentally, but she'll still roll onto them, crush their tiny piggy bodies
stylinchilibeans
I grew up on a farm. Have had sows in these before. It's really not as bad as these guys seem to think.
VBot
The only reason they're being phased out is because of uninformed cunts.
veganfortheanimals69
The animal agriculture is very well informed. They have no concern for compassion. Only FAST profits.
GetOffMyLawnYa
I read that as "uniformed" and was getting some interesting mental images.
VBot
I'm going to draw that
GaspodeTheW0nderD0g
How does this work in nature? Do piglets just get killed? Also, a few weeks seems like a lot to me to be kept in the same position... ? :/
RaisinZetaJones
The domestic pig is domesticated from wild boars. It's like trying to compare wolf behavior to dogs.
stylinchilibeans
In nature piglets get crushed and eaten. And they're able to sit up and lie down. I know it isn't ideal.
theroguex
I think people forget that the reason some animals have lots of offspring at once is because, in the wild, MOST OF THEM WOULD DIE.
veganfortheanimals69
Absolutely! In nature...in this case it's factory farming. It's an absolute disgusting mess. Please check it out! Pigs suffer like crazy.
atleastfourcharactersinlength
Pigs kill pigs. They fight. Piglets get squished. Pigs eat other pigs' piglets. These pens are used for 3 weeks until piglets move out.
veganfortheanimals69
Dude you are so off.
GetOffMyLawnYa
Yes, in nature, many offspring die. But, that's OK cause Mama's gotta eat, too.
Biteymcbiteface
They have a bit more room to move in the wild, so less crushing. But more die anyways since... nature
cjdjdhcud
Have you worked on a farm? I have.. and these pigs are in these cages months at a time...
sharon838
Seriously, that's really awful. It should be against the law to keep these animals like this.
VBot
You have no inderstanding of livestock, animal stress factors, cannibalism or financial outcomes.
DeathAbuse
Her: My mother was a pig... So
Sirtopumhat
He drank from the wrong glass.
aesthesia1
reminds me of the guy who told me he was a climatologist and that global warming is "just a theory".
srirachamakeseverythingbetter
Have I worked on a Farm? You have... These cows are in those crates for years
yellowtimer
I really want to know what kind of farm that person was on. :-/
CyberNerf
I'm assuming the one that Spinal Tap had the song about? "Sex Farm Woman" or something like that?
Filolial
It's not a story the Jedi would tell you.
GingersGoRawr
Jasflo7
I've worked in your mom's house, does that count?
digitalutopia
I worked at a police station, does that count?*
ImgurPremiumAccount
Did you get milked?
diablodeldragoon
The things that woman dud for a Klondike bar will give me nightmares for years!
PETTYOFFICER117makesmehorny
I have nipples, Gregg. Can you milk me?
ChuckIHadADoubleBuurgerrr
Well, Focker? Did you?
cjdjdhcud
My mom wouldnt fit in that cage :/
EchidnasCanSwim
Yep farm I worked on had them in the cages for up to 4 months. Horrible for the pig but increases pregnancy success and piglet survival
krokoschoko
they're outlawed in EU now, as there are more humane options
AllyP
Orrrr eat free range. When they have the space they don't crush the babies. It is more expensive but got damn it's tastier
EchidnasCanSwim
Since working there I'm definitely a free range advocate. Heritage breeds are good too as large whites are notorious baby crushers
SilverBear92
Most farmers I know that are free range still use farrowing crates... free range usually means not confinement raised...
krokoschoko
They sometimes do crush the babies even in self made nests, unless constantly supervised. there is a middle ground though
WannieTheSane
Thank goodness, I'd hate for the piglets to die and not get a chance to be strapped into their own cage.
EchidnasCanSwim
Exactly, have to keep the cheap bacon factory full of fresh meat. After that place I'm a strictly free range pork kinda girl
AllyP
Ahhh sorry that was my reply to your earlier one. Free range is the best!
PoultryInMotion
Pig milk is the most delicious milk. It is not available commercially because the farmers keep it all to themselves.
Cameron269
Mares milk is the best imo
atleastfourcharactersinlength
As a former hog farmer, can confirm.
sliceof3point1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993
That explains so much. Selfish farmers
HeyZeusPourMeAnotherGlass
I have nipples too, Greg.
jackandcokeforme
Pork the other white milk. FYI made myself laugh with that one!
esassin
I wonder if anyone has ever endeavoured to make pig's cheese.
ImTheGoddamnBatwoman
Seriously, just yesterday I asked my friend why we don't drink pig milk. She said I've been playing too much Stardew Valley.
imgurisrunbycommiecunts
But seriously? Like Why TF don't we? Bacon flavored fruity pebbles, yum!
racelawin
I'm more mad you can't milk sheep in Stardew valley. Pigs at least give me that sweet sweet truffle money.
lDanielHolm
Main reason is probably that cows just give more, and both were available in the same general time period.
SmutMonger
There's no such thing as too much Stardew Valley.
ImTheGoddamnBatwoman
I freaking love this game so much. It's so simple but has depth if you explore. I love the characters and the mysteries.
racelawin
Yesssssss
SmutMonger
Did you know they expect multiplayer to be available by the end of the year? I could visit your farm!
BlankhasdiedofDysentery
I'd say breast milk is best, that stuff tastes awesome.
NotAfraidToOffendYou
I find it fairly tasteless
demodulated
Every milk is breast milk.
Lagtim3
Not platypus milk. They excrete it like sweat.
thewarinvietfuckingnam
From their downstairs mouth?
KiyaSeraphia
platypus' shouldn't really count, their like the spare parts of all of creation blended together in a freakish chimera.
demodulated
Whaaaaat I just looked this up and it's true! My dreams of getting platypus boob are now dead. :(
Emjayen
esassin
8.5% goddamn thats basically half and half cream.
opticsdontlookright
Eat your bacon in the fixture. Also, I ride my bike past your house all the time in the summer. Go bulls!
ittybittykittycommittee
Whfle
LvAllen
They need someone with quick hands who can handle 15-second ejections? I think Imgur can help.
malorn13
This has too many spelling errors for me to take seriously
ashmenon
Right!? Jesus. PAY ATTENTION TO THE RED SQUIGGLY LINES.
AlkeneThiol
I only type my formal letters in notepad. Then email to a rhesus monkey who pastes it into a word document with letterhead and signature.
Automatomatic
They called bacon healthy.
Lexotron
No, they said pork is healthy, and pork products are on average leaner than before. Nothing specific was said about bacon.
kelly1139
Seriously though, it really is. Fat does not make you FAT! do research into the ketogentic diet. Your mind will be blown!
HeadlessNorseman
About to start a keto haha, got to start cutting down for summer!
Automatomatic
I had a friend who did keto and lost 30lbs in two years (which is great!). I cut out red meat and bread and lost 25lbs in six months.
[deleted]
[deleted]
fitgirl1
Actually in small doses it definitely can be
captainikag
Yeah, we're not afraid of saturated fats anymore just because the government pushed faulty health science on us.
Nathanyel
Bacon may kill you in 30 years, but Trumpcare will ensure you don't live that long.
veganfortheanimals69
We still can't deny these animals suffer tremendously. Don't let the meat industry paint a fairyland image for you. These crates are banned-
veganfortheanimals69
In many states and are continued to be phased out to be completely illegal everywhere. Please have a heart and do research. Pigs are smart.
LeviathanOmega
When a vegan lectures me on meat I can safely assume there's bias there.
veganfortheanimals69
Fair enough friend. But I am not lecturing. This is not my classroom. I do love to spread awareness! Sorry.
veganfortheanimals69
And I am always open for discussion, if I wasn't how on earth would I convince others to see what I see? Discussion is key. Not lecture lol
veganfortheanimals69
And I hadn't even brought up the fact in vegan! So that's not even fair. We're speaking of the horrors pigs suffer through animal ag.
VBot
Yeah its literally your username....
veganfortheanimals69
It's literally not being brought up. Nowhere in my comments am I lecturing about meat. Seriously???
veganfortheanimals69
Did you even read the comments???
veganfortheanimals69
Thanks for that observation though. I know what my username says. But I'm not shoving my lifestyle down anyone's throats. HE brought it up
LeviathanOmega
Hmm. Username 'veganfortheanimals'. Not even brought up the fact you're Vegan. Uh huh. Likely story. Sorry, bias still present.
veganfortheanimals69
Wow. I'll stop you right there. You obv are looking for a fight in the comment section. Sorry not that "vegan" you're looking for.