Maybe not scream angrily at him every time you get close, making him run? I had to decaptitate a near-dead young rabbit after our cat had been eating it alive, rather than let it suffer. She was a dumped cat before we homed her & hunted to eat, that stayed with her. She also caught weasels killing our hens. Our cats are strictly indoors now. But honestly, a rabbit & a mouse? Both food, you can't be all sweet sbout them getting mice & shocked at a small rabbit. KEEP THEM INDOORS, KEEP THEM SAFE.
Just FYI 27 species Australian native animals are extinct due to domesticated cat. They have a significant negative impact on native species, acting as a major predator that contributes to population declines and even extinction of several native mammals, birds, and reptiles, particularly when allowed to roam freely; studies indicate that each roaming pet cat can kill hundreds of native animals per year, with the greatest impact on threatened species due to their predatory behavior.
The bunny rabbit probably did not live that long. Dangling it around like that almost certainly fractured its spine, they're really delicate. They also have extremely weak hearts and have heart attacks when terrified, like when being mauled by a house cat. Keep your predators indoors please. As the owner of two rabbits that are safely hutched in my garden in a country without predators, cat owners terrify me.
That voice change reminds me of Pete's wife Peg from Goof Troop. She had this high pleasant voice and then INSTANTLY this drill sergeant deep guttural one.
Mine brought home a guinea pig once. Set it down gently in front of us, totally ok, gave it a pay on the head. It was like, "dude, wtf?". No idea where it came from. We even put up signs. Ended up donated the local pet shop. (My other cat brings rats, half eaten. I hate rats. Had an infestation once. Never again. Hope he eats all of them)
It’s mostly the hypocrisy that is frustrating. I just want to check if folks are being consistent - they see a cute picture of a cat walking around outside then they better call it out or reconcile that sometimes it’s ok for cats to explore in the backyard or walk the neighborhood.
Well this video in particular showcases one of the two reasons cats shouldn't be allowed to roam free (the other being the chance of the cat being harmed) and the added hypocrisy of the owner being okay with the cat killing certain species of rodent but not others. It makes sense that people are going to be talking more about it here. It's like how a video of a motorcyclist without protective clothing will have more people pointing that out if the rider ends up coming off the bike.
Yeah, after reading this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife it almost feels like cats shouldn’t be allowed as pets, especially in North America where they are not indigenous. Here in California we have several banned pet species for the same reason - ferrets, hedgehogs, gerbils, as examples.
And Again, LOUDER, for the “Aww you big meanies who want kitties kept inside!!” folks. Look up “Avian flu, dead birds”, cats dying” for the most recent news on how pet cats (and their owners) are ending up w/ Kitty dead and owner in the hospital bc Kitty went outside and ate/brought in a bird recently dead from Avian flu. Buy a damned catio or screen in the porch and keep Felix inside.
Bullshit! Domestic cats in Australia have a significant negative impact on native species, acting as a major predator that contributes to population declines and even extinction of several native mammals, birds, and reptiles, particularly when allowed to roam freely; studies indicate that each roaming pet cat can kill hundreds of native animals per year, with the greatest impact on threatened species due to their predatory behavior.
Rabbits aren't native. Again: if a cat or dog brings home a dead feral rabbit, they get praised. That's just how it is. They don't get praised if they bring home a lizard or a parrot. I don't own a cat so I don't even have to worry about the double standard, and my dogs are in a fenced yard. I would keep a cat indoors with an outside cage (like the law says in ACT) but if it somehow got a rabbit I still wouldn't punish it.
I can understand and appreciate that. My statement was regarding outdoor domestic cats, both pet and feral, and their negative effect on native Australian species.
I think technically the deadliest predator in the world is the dragonfly because it kills 98% of the prey it targets. Deadliest predator of humans is saltwater crocodile. Deadliest animal to humans counting deliberate killing only, is the human. Deadliest animal via indirect/accidental killing is the mosquito.
That bunny is dead if she gets the cat to let go. Cat saliva has a bacteria that's toxic to rabbits with no cure for the infection. Cats truly are the deadliest predators.
As most the internet probably knows cats are ecological nightmares. They kill everything. Less talked about because they herbivores is the wild urban population of rabbits. It's bad some places. Easter pets let go and they breed like their name sake. If you are going to have an outdoor cat encouraging them to take down rabbits in most areas is likely a good thing. I get it thought they are cute af.
Judging by the downvotes, nobody else has ever had mice get into their food before, or understands that they are historically the most common vector for fleas and diseases.
If cats only killed mice, Maybe they should forage for prey. Today, far less harmful, and far more effective mouse controls exist, that threaten no wildlife. Cats threaten any wildlife they can catch. Which includes the small young of surprisingly large animals as adults. Where Wolves are the apex predator, the various wild cat populations never rise to significantly damaging predation on birds and other small prey. Coyotes have partially taken over that role, but don't seem to reduce cat #s.
There is SOME truth to this, and when its true I don't like it. but also, if you killed none of them and took no precautions to keep them out of your house (and food particularly) the cockroaches and rats would be FAR MORE of a personal problem then the bunnies and butterflies, and nothing to do with how pretty or cute they are.
Our cats go out supervised, and yes, the occasional mouse will be caught (same as the basement) but when they eye a bird- yoink- back in the house you go! The bunnies are too fast, like the squirrels, for them to catch, inside a fenced in yard.
Yup! Our cats come when we call, just like our dogs. They leave the bird feeders alone and the backyard is a lovely symphony of birdsong, especially now that it’s heading into spring.
It's not fine when it's someone's pet a cat has stolen from a garden. I've had to put so many warding measures in place so I'm able to enjoy my garden and MY pets without other people's pets coming and predating on mine. Domestic Predators should be indoors.
That's fair, if you move out into a rural area cats stop being an invasive species. They just give up on killing for sport when there's lots of grass around /s
Yeah I like being able to keep my rabbits in their natural environment in a safe garden without the possibility a random predator will come and get them when I live in a country with nothing else that preys on them near me. When I was younger a neighbours cat got into my friends HOUSE and killed three of their gerbils. Keep them where they belong so they don't hurt things.
My garden is part of my environment. If you didn't want dogs in your space and I had a dog and you invited me over but requested I didn't bring the dog, I would respect that because I am coming into your space.
Yeah but there are probably many other small animals that are. Rabbits. Guinea pigs. Hamsters. Also that isn't the point and you know it, the point is you can't just sicc your pet into someone else's house to kill THEIR pet, letting them roam like that is awful and I would be devastated if a cat got into my garden and hurt my girls just because some entitled asshole decided their cat is ungovernable.
They'll even kill other cats. They're not fussy. I love cats but they do not belong outdoors unless they're leashed. I don't get why at some point we decided we were their servants but dogs were ours, they're both animals, they need treating the same. They aren't untrainable, they aren't unteachable, and if they were and you chose to have that in YOUR environment that is YOUR choice. You don't get to force that on others.
You cannot imagine how heart stopping it is to glance out of your window and see a cat trying to pull at the side of the hutch while your rabbits are in the back corner thumping cos they're terrified. I've never been so frightened or run so fast.
I guess I hit a sore spot. I'm sorry you like to keep cats outdoors so they damage the local wildlife population and die in horrific ways. Sounds like you should do some soul-searching what makes you treat cats like that.
Depends if you like rata mostly... I think all studies claiming cats devastated bird populations have been debunked now, so it's really just about the small mammals they catch. Depending on where you are in the world, that could be catastrophic (pun fully intended) to your local ecosystem, but for most people in Northern hemisphere Western cities, its just rats and mice, so generally cars are considered helpful to nature (as the rats don't belong either but the cats control populations a bit)
"Your" info on cat predation on birds, particularly song birds, is as self-serving as any right wing political statement currently out in media. Highly respected studies put cat predation of the total take of N. American song birds as the largest of human caused deaths, at maybe 2.4 BILLION a year. And these are mostly babies or nesting adults, magnifying the hit on bird populations. Many of which are now threatened. I can't remember a song bird population that is growing, in 21st C.
I've posted a link from a reputable body that clearly shows scientific support what I'm telling you (it's not my opinion. It's fact. My opinion started like yours but i changed it when I realised it was wrong)...
Whilst you start with attack, and dont provide any source... And then have the audacity to claim I'm like a right winger?
Do you know what "politics in the mirror" is? (I really hope you're being paid to act this way, it's so fucking weird that you shouldn't do it for free!)
Where is your link? I'm not seeing it in the thread. 2.4 billion per year comes from the USFWS, https://www.fws.gov/library/collections/threats-birds. Similar claims from the American Bird Conservancy use different studies. Both about as robust as authorities get for science research. The most difficult studies for cat issues seem to get published by groups of cat enthusiasts. Cherry picking 'research' has become a parlor game anyone can play.
I'd love to see your sources on that since I've never seen any sources that say that cats SPECIFICALLY kill rats - not birds or other wildlife. But if this is just a way to justify why you let your cats out then I don't wanna hear it. That's just gonna be an endless cycle of listening excuses and I'm not interested on getting dozens of comments with wilder and wilder explanations "why it's ok".
We don't let ours out. Our big fluffy monsters only go outside with us.. But that's cos I'm worried about them getting lost/stolen/hit by a car rather than killing wildlife
Have a Google from other perspectives tho if you prefer. People have looked into it from various angles in various places around the world. I'm not talking opinion, I'm counting.
The study said what I said that cats kill wildlife in large numbers - not just rats, and the conclusion was only that it should be studied more since they can't be sure how much cats actually kill, and how much is killed by natural predators. There's just not a single good reason to defend letting cats mess around with the ecosystem PLUS get killed painfully outdoors.
We humans like to make up rules and shit and then be upset if somebody breaks them. Sometimes we also make up the broken rule after being upset for some reason.
Until they are chewing through hundreds of dollars worth of items, destroying your food, and leaving excrement everywhere. They are cute to look at, but terrible to have around outside a controlled environment.
I know, my FIL has a cottage and the little buggers get in and poop all over everything in the winter when no one's there. I hate it. But I still find them adorable, lol, can't help it. We found a baby one and my BIL was going to kill it but I took it home instead and raised it. It was so cute!
Yeah. It's similar to how alcohol is legal when other much milder substances are illegal, if something is connected to tradition or is otherwise very outspread it's less likely to get banned even if it is objectively harmful.
So what can we do? Push for criminal charges for unspayed or neutered pets? I mean if one of them gets out and starts murdering and mating it could be a very serious problem
Globally, cats are considered to have contributed to the extinction of at least two reptile, 40 bird and 21 mammal species – more than one quarter (26%) of the total extinctions of these groups since the year 1600.
Had a neighbor down the road growing up that had a bunch of intact barn cats he just let breed and kill everything. We lived in a rural, heavily wooded area and stopped seeing song birds, little mammal critters, etc, so we started trapping them and taking them to the local shelter. Took a year of heavily trapping the cats to start seeing the local ecosystem start returning to normal. Fuck people who let their cats terrorize the local wildlife.
That's fucked up. My FIL has barn cats, but he controls the population by spaying/neutering a bunch of them (depending how many kittens he gets and how many total cats there are). He also takes them to the vet for regular checkups. Basically treats them like the rest of the farm animals.
Yeah we have 2 cats, both fixed, who are about 50/50 indoor outdoor. They roam on the acreage and explore the garden and come in for meals and to sleep. Both 10+ years old, current on vaccines. Not worried about them
And let the Aussies chime in. Although I'd be happy if the cats wiped out the feral bunnies, which are just as big of a problem. And I'm sorry about the possums, that's our bad.
Something you need to take into account, is that no katter how many jokes we make about everything in Australia wanting to kill you, there are no native large land predators here - no bears, dogs (dingoes are technically an introduced species as well), cats, small primates, etc - the last one is the tasmanian tiger, a marsupial now extinct. Our main predators are reptiles or raptor birds, and so it's been a massive loss for our native animals.
Rabbits aren't native to Australia; they're an introduced species along with cats, rats, pigeons, foxes, deer, pigs and camels. Because they breed so fast, they outcompete and take over burrows of our native species, making them vulnerable to predators, many of which are introduced such as cats and foxes.
I'd argue that the cat statistics are on humans. Because we should be responsible about our apex predator pets. Cats will do what they do. It's our responsibility to keep them from causing harm, or being harmed. Because tbh wildlife is extremely dangerous to THEM, too. The average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 7 years.
Yeah, I'm using one for the US. But even within the US, it probably depends where you live. Before I knew better, I had outdoor cats. Two lived to 10+. Two others got FIV from ferals and didn't make it past 8. The rest (we got a lot of friendly strays lol) were hit by cars, just disappeared, etc. Where I live now there's SO many coyotes. I found a half eaten stray once. I've found JUST a head before. Nope. My cat stays inside.
This is why I’m proud of my cats. They only bring me dead rodents that they found dead. Like, a neighbor was poisoning squirrels and rather than the dead squirrels decaying in the bushes my cats would pick them up and bring them home. There were no puncture wounds or blood, so I know it was poison that killed the squirrels. And the times my cats have caught lizards they were always non indigenous lizards. The indigenous geckos stay too high up for my cats to get to. Also, 1/2
The time a rat was brought home, it was still alive and got loose in my home, lol. But only for a minute. My cat is a good little hunter, but he prefers to keep his prey alive and show it to me, so I can tell him what a good boy he is. He even keeps the non indigenous lizards alive, so I have to decide to kill them (to help the ecosystem) or let them live (because it’s an innocent creature). XD 2/2
Stop letting him torture and play with other live creatures, do you HEAR yourself??? The reason you've been downvoted so hard is cos you're letting a non indigenous domestic animal out to harm wildlife. Even if they come back alive they've got TINY hearts and go into shock and die. Sometimes hours after you've let them back out like "ha ha this is funny". You sound really cold hearted here and I hope you take the time today to reflect on what it must feel like to be prey, senselessly
I've read your comments twice and your casual attitude about deciding what lives and what dies is bordering on scary. Please stop letting your cat out. The lizards deserve to live.
dcmirepoix2350
Breakfast
Berrai7
Well cats gonna cat. They are predators. Nature is kinda horrible
EDoPur
"It's mine! I caught it fair and square! Get your own 'god damned bunny rabbit'!"
NotSleepingNow
Maybe not scream angrily at him every time you get close, making him run?
I had to decaptitate a near-dead young rabbit after our cat had been eating it alive, rather than let it suffer. She was a dumped cat before we homed her & hunted to eat, that stayed with her. She also caught weasels killing our hens. Our cats are strictly indoors now. But honestly, a rabbit & a mouse? Both food, you can't be all sweet sbout them getting mice & shocked at a small rabbit. KEEP THEM INDOORS, KEEP THEM SAFE.
ROGUEdenied
VelvetWarhol
FeloniousMonk13
Hey I love bunny rabbits but goddamn I like mice too
ROGUEdenied
jackcb1
ROGUEdenied
JEFF! YOU MOTHERFUCKER!
NervAssEva
Just FYI 27 species Australian native animals are extinct due to domesticated cat. They have a significant negative impact on native species, acting as a major predator that contributes to population declines and even extinction of several native mammals, birds, and reptiles, particularly when allowed to roam freely; studies indicate that each roaming pet cat can kill hundreds of native animals per year, with the greatest impact on threatened species due to their predatory behavior.
ebonyfaery
If anyone wants to see live, healthy, happy buns as an antidote to this: /gallery/gs3Xp6S
kaijuuGold
bloodlust is strong
ebonyfaery
The bunny rabbit probably did not live that long. Dangling it around like that almost certainly fractured its spine, they're really delicate. They also have extremely weak hearts and have heart attacks when terrified, like when being mauled by a house cat. Keep your predators indoors please. As the owner of two rabbits that are safely hutched in my garden in a country without predators, cat owners terrify me.
sarahsaurroar
That voice change reminds me of Pete's wife Peg from Goof Troop. She had this high pleasant voice and then INSTANTLY this drill sergeant deep guttural one.
OverwhelmingSurplusOfDiggity
Hee hee killing rodents is funny unless its a bunny
Fucking shitty outdoor-cat owners, fuck the lot of you.
Lvaneede
Keep your cats indoors
colderfish
Mine brought home a guinea pig once. Set it down gently in front of us, totally ok, gave it a pay on the head. It was like, "dude, wtf?". No idea where it came from. We even put up signs. Ended up donated the local pet shop. (My other cat brings rats, half eaten. I hate rats. Had an infestation once. Never again. Hope he eats all of them)
MilvaBarring
Cats should stay inside
MelfsAcidArrow
Please tell me you brigade every picture on this site with a cat outside. I can tag you if you like so you can be alerted when someone posts one
pritolus
Like what you're doing to every comment suggesting that letting a pet you're responsible for run outside unsupervised is bad?
MelfsAcidArrow
It’s mostly the hypocrisy that is frustrating. I just want to check if folks are being consistent - they see a cute picture of a cat walking around outside then they better call it out or reconcile that sometimes it’s ok for cats to explore in the backyard or walk the neighborhood.
pritolus
Well this video in particular showcases one of the two reasons cats shouldn't be allowed to roam free (the other being the chance of the cat being harmed) and the added hypocrisy of the owner being okay with the cat killing certain species of rodent but not others. It makes sense that people are going to be talking more about it here.
It's like how a video of a motorcyclist without protective clothing will have more people pointing that out if the rider ends up coming off the bike.
MelfsAcidArrow
Yeah, after reading this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife it almost feels like cats shouldn’t be allowed as pets, especially in North America where they are not indigenous. Here in California we have several banned pet species for the same reason - ferrets, hedgehogs, gerbils, as examples.
Zootsoot
If you don’t want Kitty hunting bunnies or dying of avian flu? You should keep your cat inside.
Zootsoot
And Again, LOUDER, for the “Aww you big meanies who want kitties kept inside!!” folks.
Look up “Avian flu, dead birds”, cats dying” for the most recent news on how pet cats (and their owners) are ending up w/ Kitty dead and owner in the hospital bc Kitty went outside and ate/brought in a bird recently dead from Avian flu.
Buy a damned catio or screen in the porch and keep Felix inside.
Telemapus
Here in Australia if the cat or dog brings home a dead non-pet rabbit, they get extra treats and pats. Because we need all the help we can get:
AussieInsects
Unfortunately in my part of Australia they just kill everything that's slower first
NervAssEva
Bullshit! Domestic cats in Australia have a significant negative impact on native species, acting as a major predator that contributes to population declines and even extinction of several native mammals, birds, and reptiles, particularly when allowed to roam freely; studies indicate that each roaming pet cat can kill hundreds of native animals per year, with the greatest impact on threatened species due to their predatory behavior.
Telemapus
Rabbits aren't native. Again: if a cat or dog brings home a dead feral rabbit, they get praised. That's just how it is. They don't get praised if they bring home a lizard or a parrot. I don't own a cat so I don't even have to worry about the double standard, and my dogs are in a fenced yard. I would keep a cat indoors with an outside cage (like the law says in ACT) but if it somehow got a rabbit I still wouldn't punish it.
NervAssEva
I can understand and appreciate that. My statement was regarding outdoor domestic cats, both pet and feral, and their negative effect on native Australian species.
ColoradoDiceCo
This is what happens when you let the deadliest predator in the world roam wild.
AllTheGoodOnesWereGone
They scream at their pets, ya.
Telemapus
I think technically the deadliest predator in the world is the dragonfly because it kills 98% of the prey it targets. Deadliest predator of humans is saltwater crocodile. Deadliest animal to humans counting deliberate killing only, is the human. Deadliest animal via indirect/accidental killing is the mosquito.
zafner
You mean ... man?
BatmanAndCradleRobin
Yeah they get cats
LovelyEnvy
That bunny is dead if she gets the cat to let go. Cat saliva has a bacteria that's toxic to rabbits with no cure for the infection. Cats truly are the deadliest predators.
ebonyfaery
Plus majorly high risk of heart attack, and broken back or neck or both.
makemineadouble
Rabbits have terrible immune systems. But they can make new rabbits at 4 months old, so that's something.
ReelPoop
Christian here, second deadliest* :-(
ColoradoDiceCo
I'm confused how you being Christian fits into the argument.
PastureofMuppets
The first deadliest predator
Telemapus
Christians are the world's deadliest predator.
Darkwell
The deadliest predator of all is Christ. He's off the cross, back in the world, and coming for you.
HairyChairstepper
Via. Con dios.
AussieInsects
This Sunday, 9pm at the cinaplex!
TinyOctopus
It's amusing to tiny octopus that mom was fine that it was a mouse. But a fucking bunny rabbit? NOOOOO! YOU MOTHERFUCKER!!
twostepsfromlost
As most the internet probably knows cats are ecological nightmares. They kill everything. Less talked about because they herbivores is the wild urban population of rabbits. It's bad some places. Easter pets let go and they breed like their name sake. If you are going to have an outdoor cat encouraging them to take down rabbits in most areas is likely a good thing. I get it thought they are cute af.
ThatRaccoonGuy
I don't like my dog killing harmless animals, but mice and rats are fair game, because they are a threat.
Badprenup
Are you by chance secretly an elephant?
ThatRaccoonGuy
Judging by the downvotes, nobody else has ever had mice get into their food before, or understands that they are historically the most common vector for fleas and diseases.
executivedisfunction
If cats only killed mice, Maybe they should forage for prey. Today, far less harmful, and far more effective mouse controls exist, that threaten no wildlife. Cats threaten any wildlife they can catch. Which includes the small young of surprisingly large animals as adults. Where Wolves are the apex predator, the various wild cat populations never rise to significantly damaging predation on birds and other small prey. Coyotes have partially taken over that role, but don't seem to reduce cat #s.
chronicbionictonic
EternallyIgnorant
There is SOME truth to this, and when its true I don't like it. but also, if you killed none of them and took no precautions to keep them out of your house (and food particularly) the cockroaches and rats would be FAR MORE of a personal problem then the bunnies and butterflies, and nothing to do with how pretty or cute they are.
tooomanystevesgotbanned
Me too, but I'm Aussie and rabbits are vermin here.
vanishinggirl
Our cats go out supervised, and yes, the occasional mouse will be caught (same as the basement) but when they eye a bird- yoink- back in the house you go! The bunnies are too fast, like the squirrels, for them to catch, inside a fenced in yard.
MelfsAcidArrow
Yup! Our cats come when we call, just like our dogs. They leave the bird feeders alone and the backyard is a lovely symphony of birdsong, especially now that it’s heading into spring.
ebonyfaery
How are you ensuring they never leave this fenced in yard?
vanishinggirl
We’re outside with them & they stay in the yard- they know if they try and sneak out they’ll just end up inside for the day.
ebonyfaery
Ah, responsible cat owners! Yay! Thank you.
JillOfTheJpg
Cats gonna cat. Maybe keep it inside, yah?
GoGoPowerRangersssZEEOOO
I read that in Wakka’s voice
BunchaCrunchOfHuman
It's fine. I hear bunnies breed like rabbits
ebonyfaery
It's not fine when it's someone's pet a cat has stolen from a garden. I've had to put so many warding measures in place so I'm able to enjoy my garden and MY pets without other people's pets coming and predating on mine. Domestic Predators should be indoors.
BubblesTheFish
source?
straha242
MelfsAcidArrow
Oh geez they are back. The indoor cats only people.
HardcoreMango
Yeah. Just shoot any cat you see unattended outside, that solves the problem real quick. No more cats outside, no more irresponsible pet owners. Ez
bananaspitz
Mine are inside because we live on a busy street and I like my pets
WarlockWithNoPatron
MelfsAcidArrow
Funny thing is the person in that picture totally lives in a place that has outdoor cats. Not all of us live in tiny apartments in big cities
WarlockWithNoPatron
That's fair, if you move out into a rural area cats stop being an invasive species. They just give up on killing for sport when there's lots of grass around /s
MelfsAcidArrow
A spayed or neutered barn cat is a wonderful thing
ebonyfaery
Yeah I like being able to keep my rabbits in their natural environment in a safe garden without the possibility a random predator will come and get them when I live in a country with nothing else that preys on them near me. When I was younger a neighbours cat got into my friends HOUSE and killed three of their gerbils. Keep them where they belong so they don't hurt things.
MelfsAcidArrow
Funny thing is where I live, gerbils arent allowed because they are invasive species.
ebonyfaery
My garden is part of my environment. If you didn't want dogs in your space and I had a dog and you invited me over but requested I didn't bring the dog, I would respect that because I am coming into your space.
ebonyfaery
Yeah but there are probably many other small animals that are. Rabbits. Guinea pigs. Hamsters. Also that isn't the point and you know it, the point is you can't just sicc your pet into someone else's house to kill THEIR pet, letting them roam like that is awful and I would be devastated if a cat got into my garden and hurt my girls just because some entitled asshole decided their cat is ungovernable.
ebonyfaery
They'll even kill other cats. They're not fussy. I love cats but they do not belong outdoors unless they're leashed. I don't get why at some point we decided we were their servants but dogs were ours, they're both animals, they need treating the same. They aren't untrainable, they aren't unteachable, and if they were and you chose to have that in YOUR environment that is YOUR choice. You don't get to force that on others.
ebonyfaery
You cannot imagine how heart stopping it is to glance out of your window and see a cat trying to pull at the side of the hutch while your rabbits are in the back corner thumping cos they're terrified. I've never been so frightened or run so fast.
MaleProstateMilker88
Cats are catastrophic to the ecosystem since they don't belong in the nature, and they usually end up dead in gnarly, painful ways.
MelfsAcidArrow
Please tell me you brigade every picture on this site with a cat outside. I can tag you if you like so you can be alerted when someone posts one
MaleProstateMilker88
I guess I hit a sore spot. I'm sorry you like to keep cats outdoors so they damage the local wildlife population and die in horrific ways. Sounds like you should do some soul-searching what makes you treat cats like that.
MelfsAcidArrow
Oh no I just wanted you to be informed.
Zamm005
Depends if you like rata mostly... I think all studies claiming cats devastated bird populations have been debunked now, so it's really just about the small mammals they catch. Depending on where you are in the world, that could be catastrophic (pun fully intended) to your local ecosystem, but for most people in Northern hemisphere Western cities, its just rats and mice, so generally cars are considered helpful to nature (as the rats don't belong either but the cats control populations a bit)
executivedisfunction
"Your" info on cat predation on birds, particularly song birds, is as self-serving as any right wing political statement currently out in media. Highly respected studies put cat predation of the total take of N. American song birds as the largest of human caused deaths, at maybe 2.4 BILLION a year. And these are mostly babies or nesting adults, magnifying the hit on bird populations. Many of which are now threatened. I can't remember a song bird population that is growing, in 21st C.
Zamm005
I've posted a link from a reputable body that clearly shows scientific support what I'm telling you (it's not my opinion. It's fact. My opinion started like yours but i changed it when I realised it was wrong)...
Whilst you start with attack, and dont provide any source... And then have the audacity to claim I'm like a right winger?
Do you know what "politics in the mirror" is? (I really hope you're being paid to act this way, it's so fucking weird that you shouldn't do it for free!)
executivedisfunction
Where is your link? I'm not seeing it in the thread. 2.4 billion per year comes from the USFWS, https://www.fws.gov/library/collections/threats-birds. Similar claims from the American Bird Conservancy use different studies. Both about as robust as authorities get for science research. The most difficult studies for cat issues seem to get published by groups of cat enthusiasts. Cherry picking 'research' has become a parlor game anyone can play.
MaleProstateMilker88
I'd love to see your sources on that since I've never seen any sources that say that cats SPECIFICALLY kill rats - not birds or other wildlife. But if this is just a way to justify why you let your cats out then I don't wanna hear it. That's just gonna be an endless cycle of listening excuses and I'm not interested on getting dozens of comments with wilder and wilder explanations "why it's ok".
Zamm005
We don't let ours out. Our big fluffy monsters only go outside with us.. But that's cos I'm worried about them getting lost/stolen/hit by a car rather than killing wildlife
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9794845/
Have a Google from other perspectives tho if you prefer. People have looked into it from various angles in various places around the world. I'm not talking opinion, I'm counting.
MaleProstateMilker88
The study said what I said that cats kill wildlife in large numbers - not just rats, and the conclusion was only that it should be studied more since they can't be sure how much cats actually kill, and how much is killed by natural predators. There's just not a single good reason to defend letting cats mess around with the ecosystem PLUS get killed painfully outdoors.
BIC777
only cute animals are not ok?
JustTryingToHelpDude
We humans like to make up rules and shit and then be upset if somebody breaks them. Sometimes we also make up the broken rule after being upset for some reason.
Valatros
That is pretty much the standard for humans protecting species, yeah.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
Mice are cute
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Mice are *adorable*.
patthefox
Until they are chewing through hundreds of dollars worth of items, destroying your food, and leaving excrement everywhere. They are cute to look at, but terrible to have around outside a controlled environment.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
I know, my FIL has a cottage and the little buggers get in and poop all over everything in the winter when no one's there. I hate it. But I still find them adorable, lol, can't help it. We found a baby one and my BIL was going to kill it but I took it home instead and raised it. It was so cute!
patthefox
I avoid killing them too. I have live capture traps set out for them, but sometimes they are absolutely destructive forces with no rhyme or reason.
leviaton
Keep your cat inside... They decimate local wildlife to staggering degrees
MelfsAcidArrow
Please tell me you brigade every picture on this site with a cat outside. I can tag you if you like so you can be alerted when someone posts one
leviaton
Policing cats on Imgur would take an army and a half! By golly just imagine the number of things to review! It would be a glorious waste of time
MelfsAcidArrow
Could you even imagine?
pritolus
So if a problem is widespread your solution is for everyone to shut up about it forever?
MelfsAcidArrow
You know what, you make an excellent point. After reading this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife it almost seems that cats aren’t suitable as pets.
I mean we aren’t allowed to have other invasive species as pets in California, like ferrets or hedgehogs or gerbils.
pritolus
Yeah. It's similar to how alcohol is legal when other much milder substances are illegal, if something is connected to tradition or is otherwise very outspread it's less likely to get banned even if it is objectively harmful.
MelfsAcidArrow
So what can we do? Push for criminal charges for unspayed or neutered pets? I mean if one of them gets out and starts murdering and mating it could be a very serious problem
Bunhyung
Globally, cats are considered to have contributed to the extinction of at least two reptile, 40 bird and 21 mammal species – more than one quarter (26%) of the total extinctions of these groups since the year 1600.
frishhawk
Humans have done way more. Cats are good.
AussieInsects
Youre so right, let cats kill just as many then let's fix the problem
figuringeights
Humans are responsible for the cat problem in the first place since they aren't indigenous to most places
waznewz
You forget the dinosaurs....
AnonymousFlyingSquirrel
Had a neighbor down the road growing up that had a bunch of intact barn cats he just let breed and kill everything. We lived in a rural, heavily wooded area and stopped seeing song birds, little mammal critters, etc, so we started trapping them and taking them to the local shelter. Took a year of heavily trapping the cats to start seeing the local ecosystem start returning to normal. Fuck people who let their cats terrorize the local wildlife.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
That's fucked up. My FIL has barn cats, but he controls the population by spaying/neutering a bunch of them (depending how many kittens he gets and how many total cats there are). He also takes them to the vet for regular checkups. Basically treats them like the rest of the farm animals.
MelfsAcidArrow
Yeah we have 2 cats, both fixed, who are about 50/50 indoor outdoor. They roam on the acreage and explore the garden and come in for meals and to sleep. Both 10+ years old, current on vaccines. Not worried about them
arfysdad
This is how it's done.
squelcheswetly
Yeah. Talk to New Zealand about their feral cat problem.
CheeseIsNaturesFudge
And the West Island
Awomdy
And let the Aussies chime in. Although I'd be happy if the cats wiped out the feral bunnies, which are just as big of a problem. And I'm sorry about the possums, that's our bad.
ebonyfaery
I'm genuinely curious - what's wrong with wild rabbits? What do they do wrong?
Awomdy
Something you need to take into account, is that no katter how many jokes we make about everything in Australia wanting to kill you, there are no native large land predators here - no bears, dogs (dingoes are technically an introduced species as well), cats, small primates, etc - the last one is the tasmanian tiger, a marsupial now extinct. Our main predators are reptiles or raptor birds, and so it's been a massive loss for our native animals.
Awomdy
Rabbits aren't native to Australia; they're an introduced species along with cats, rats, pigeons, foxes, deer, pigs and camels. Because they breed so fast, they outcompete and take over burrows of our native species, making them vulnerable to predators, many of which are introduced such as cats and foxes.
ebonyfaery
Thanks for the info. Had no Idea tiny bunnies could be so destructive lol
tooomanystevesgotbanned
Cool, now do humans.
Spiderbutts
I'd argue that the cat statistics are on humans. Because we should be responsible about our apex predator pets. Cats will do what they do. It's our responsibility to keep them from causing harm, or being harmed. Because tbh wildlife is extremely dangerous to THEM, too. The average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 7 years.
tooomanystevesgotbanned
Yes, that too. I love cats, and they are terrible for wildlife, but they wouldn't be a problem without humans releasing them.
KellyCrazyCatLadyinTraining
I was told it was 2 years. I wonder which statistic is correct. Hold on, I gotta go look that up.
tooomanystevesgotbanned
Depends on the country and region, I assume. Cars are a big killer in my area, as we don't have coyotes.
Spiderbutts
Yeah, I'm using one for the US. But even within the US, it probably depends where you live. Before I knew better, I had outdoor cats. Two lived to 10+. Two others got FIV from ferals and didn't make it past 8. The rest (we got a lot of friendly strays lol) were hit by cars, just disappeared, etc. Where I live now there's SO many coyotes. I found a half eaten stray once. I've found JUST a head before. Nope. My cat stays inside.
KellyCrazyCatLadyinTraining
This is why I’m proud of my cats. They only bring me dead rodents that they found dead. Like, a neighbor was poisoning squirrels and rather than the dead squirrels decaying in the bushes my cats would pick them up and bring them home. There were no puncture wounds or blood, so I know it was poison that killed the squirrels. And the times my cats have caught lizards they were always non indigenous lizards. The indigenous geckos stay too high up for my cats to get to. Also, 1/2
WickedSludge
You're only fooling yourself. Outdoor cats kill. It's what they do.
ebonyfaery
It's adorable they have you fooled but I promise you they're killing stuff. Lol
KellyCrazyCatLadyinTraining
The time a rat was brought home, it was still alive and got loose in my home, lol. But only for a minute. My cat is a good little hunter, but he prefers to keep his prey alive and show it to me, so I can tell him what a good boy he is. He even keeps the non indigenous lizards alive, so I have to decide to kill them (to help the ecosystem) or let them live (because it’s an innocent creature). XD 2/2
ebonyfaery
I notice you've been back around and commented on other things but haven't replied here. Did you realise how wrong you were being?
ebonyfaery
Stop letting him torture and play with other live creatures, do you HEAR yourself??? The reason you've been downvoted so hard is cos you're letting a non indigenous domestic animal out to harm wildlife. Even if they come back alive they've got TINY hearts and go into shock and die. Sometimes hours after you've let them back out like "ha ha this is funny".
You sound really cold hearted here and I hope you take the time today to reflect on what it must feel like to be prey, senselessly
ebonyfaery
being played with by a huge terrifying creature with teeth as long as half your body. Really try and empathise. It's not funny. It's grim.
ebonyfaery
I've read your comments twice and your casual attitude about deciding what lives and what dies is bordering on scary. Please stop letting your cat out. The lizards deserve to live.