meadowgreene
109674
4179
160
Why kids learn to hate math
I fear for our future
Feb 3, 2016 3:21 AM
meadowgreene
109674
4179
160
I fear for our future
CandidGamera
The assignment isn't even correct English. "Tell" needs an indirect object.
ThatGuyWhosFunAtPartiez
It's about teaching the kids to complete one number to 10 so that the addition is easier. It's just really badly written.
jbrontey
There is a correct answer: use base 13.
NVRSCR
Serious- my math tutor taught me this in 4th grade. It has been beneficial my whole life.
SuperCerealManBearPig
The point is to aid in addition. If you have 7+3+9, you're obviously gonna add the 7 and 3 to get 10, then 10 + 9 is cake.
Luke0451
It quite clearly stated 8+5. Not 8+2. Not 8+(5-3). 8 plus fucking 5. If you want to get 10 in that case, convert the answer to base 13.
Bucky091
I'm kinda shocked that this has to be taught. Started doing this on my own in grade school.
madmathematicienne
Standing on the shoulders of giants and whatnot. I figured this out too, but many kids won't on their own, and it's a damn good method.
nickg131
It's how I do large number basic math in my head. 4234x754 is 4000x100x7 to start out, etc. But this question is VERY poorly worded
blazr987
Even with all the explanations being given, this is still a stupid-ass way of teaching addition. count up 5 more from 8, kid.
bukketl4d
Fuck that. Nothing irritates me more than watching grown ass adults counting on their fingers to do addition.
NotPatches
Common core actually has a lot of empirical evidence to back it up but it's so different from the way most people were taught that it (1/2)
NotPatches
scares them (2/2)
Enderman526
Funny thing is, growing up in the 90s, I could never do basic math well. and the the way I do math in my head is essentially Common Core.
moodytravesty
Like many things in life, it seems wrong when taken out of context. The question is perfectly appropriate for a 4rd grader learning to add.
thyarmageddon
Perfectly appropriate =/= Efficient.
CorneliusCornwall
4rd? Aside from that typo you are absolutely correct.
GrantStouder
Common core strikes again!
thedevil
Bullshit, it's poorly and ambiguously worded and does nothing to further their math skills.
Dserious
Read any number of comments above
alrightalrightalrightalrightalrightalright
Fird grader
BayazTheBenevolent
Bloody fourd graders..
Mutious
This is how I taught myself to do math, people who dislike it tend to be the types that only memorized math and have no real understanding.
Skwwid
Guys you're over reacting a bit. Yes the education system is shit but what if the teacher is just stupid?
jaedub
Fuck that teacher.
addi09
You asked a question wrong...
iUpvoteEveryoneThatReplies
The plus kinda fucks it up. If you have 8 apples and there is a pile of 5 apples, how do you get 10 apples
EskaleR
I learned this method in Russian school 13 years ago. It's pretty useful and makes calculations easier.
stopstalkingmeplease
I don't understand what you did before. I don't recall primary school but I've always did this automatically. What other way is there?
EskaleR
I was a little kid and did nothing. They just told me "look, you can calculate that way" and that's it
PoorlyTimedHolocaustJokes
You must mean "take 2 from 5 and add it to 8 and then add 3" years. Now I understand.
Fenderzilla
I think you mean 10 years ago
Fenderzilla
Wow I can't believe this comment has ten whole points
PolishPunisher
Bravo!
Mcmonkeybug
From UK. And the way my kids are getting taught math is just as bad.
rayfinklesboobjob
as a recent college graduate, our whole education system in the United States needs to be made over
Abbeel
It was and this is the result.
Eridith
Tear the whole thing down and start over
KyteAryus
This is actually how people tend to do math in their head. It doesn't make sense at first because people don't see the method's explanation
Cere4l
People are weird, this is nothing like how i do math in my head. not for small or big numbers o_O
twotimesman
If you want to add 85 to 99 you don't do 85+9=94+90=184?
Cere4l
yes, but i dont do 99 + 1 = 100 leaves 85 - 1 to be 84 100+84 = 184 which would be how example above wants it
twotimesman
No it had 8+5 or 8+2= 10+3=13
CandidGamera
What, incorrectly? Because 8+5 isn't 10.
HighlySexualLobster
Its a different way of teaching math that provides greater flexibility. You have to be taught young though. We're raising Guild Navigators.
LateTunnel
Yeah that's exactly how I do it. I hadn't thought about it till now but that's the way I've always done it.
TypoQeuen
I have done this for as long as I can remember. It allows you to add or subtract fairly quickly with little error. However, I don't (1)
TypoQeuen
believe this is the way it should be taught and is only beneficial after a solid foundation with math is established. (2)
PFally64
I had a teacher cross out one of my words as a spelling mistake. I had mis-spelled 'dial' (which she insisted was dail). This was IT class.
hopelesslystoned
As an Eastern European, how are you being thought addition in the USA? Is it all memory? Cause this is pre-school level math...
CandidGamera
No wonder you lost the Cold War.
MyOtherUsernameIsOP
A lot of Americans have a difficulty telling 10 from 13, "your" from "you're" and other basic things.
Toaster2403
My guess is the answer is 8+5=10+3 but the question is still ridiculous.
rhombusrightangle
I get the whole tens table method and use it regularly but that is not what this is. Learning table is done with sheets held over one anther
KeeleonOhms
A sane response. +1
drdsanchezjr
99+10=100+9
fylnndjofla
Where would this apply in life? JOHNSON! GET IN HERE!.. TAKE THIS PROBLEM AND GIVE ME THE SAME PROBLEM... BUT DIFFERENT.. OR YOU'RE FIRED!!
LoadedPrecompute908
Fun fact, I've worked in corporate america for the last five years...haven't met a single person named Johnson. I feel lied to.
fylnndjofla
What!?! THAT'S IT! I'm hiring the first Johnson I meet... once I own a company and get out of student loa- I'm never hiring anyone am I? :(
PaintedSlate
Agreed, unless there's a heck of a lot of context cut out...and as long as we don't dramatically overinterpret it for political reasons.
OolonColuphid
No way! All the context we need is here in this small photo, and the internet would never ever politicize something like this!
Atomic2
You... I like you.
WilliamKeith
"Making 10s" is about place values. 8+5 makes 10 and 3, so you write 1 in the 10s place and 3 in the units. Math teachers aren't insane.
Narwhilian
Thats what I thought too. The problem seems to be geared towards teaching kids how to break up a more difficult equation and make it easier
coyfox320
Yes, but the question is still poorly worded. Also students learn to add using 5s and 10s, ex. another answer could have been 5+5=10+3=13.
muzik4machines
so that a 1st grade question then
Pgoodso
But in colloquial English for math, "make" equals... well, "equal". The terminology should be "USE 10s to solve this problem", not "make".
YourWaifuIsTrash
"Making 10's" is the phrase used for this method, not "using 10's". It is confusing if you haven't worked with this method.
edgareplekjekk
"make 10" is the the phrase.
jaffa5
wouldn't "how many units of 10 are in 8+5" have been the best way to ask this question? I mean thats how i learned this methord as a kid.
YourWaifuIsTrash
Yes, unless the students had learned about "making 10" as a technique.
SoyDivision
The question doesn't even use correct grammar for fucks sake.
JeffGoldblumSayinWellThereItIs
My math teachers always hated English and vice versa
TheycallmeRisky
That's because teachers are just idiots in general
themouseking
For the sake of fuck, therefore for fuck's sake. Grammar's fun.
themouseking
And so's my nan.
Bennings
*fuck's
Howdoilife
It's okay they can just use MyMathLab...
MillenniumFalcon
This is why I gave up on being an Astronaut
AgentJohnson
The question is ambiguous but would actually make sense if worded better. It's teaching how to add numbers greater than single digits.
ICouldUseANap
No it's not.
ICouldUseANap
No it's not.
ICouldUseANap
No it's not.
EmpoleonNorton
ITS NOT HOW I LEARNED AS A KID ITS SCARY! /sarcasm. This is literally how I taught myself. It WORKS. It prepares you for more complex stuff.
itscoldhere8monthsoftheyear
I don't need the exact number, I just need a reasonable estimate to work with. -common core.
EmpoleonNorton
Never seen anything in common core that doesn't get the exact answer, it teaches concepts that makes math make sense instead of memorization
ClassyJacket
It doesn't work because it's objectively wrong.
GeneralHavan
The redundancy of the question is what gets to people. Math has rules, and to bend those rules in a contrived way isn't helping anybody.
EmpoleonNorton
There is no redundancy. Its asking how to "make 10" and I guarantee make 10 is a method they learned. You make 10, then add the remainder.
GeneralHavan
I can see how the question would have no redundancy to a kid without grasp on counting, but to a smarter kid it's entirely redundant.
GeneralHavan
I get it, 10's in the process. 8+1+1(=10)+1+1+1=13 but is it really that important? Just add 5 to 8. 13. 3 away from 10. The kid gets that.
EmpoleonNorton
Its teaching a method to doing math. We all do it. It feels pointless with small numbers, but 5593+2939=5600+2932=6000+2532=8532 much faster
GeneralHavan
It's contrived, thus redundant to finding the answer. The question has no point. 8+5=?+3 would have worked better to actually teaching math.
EmpoleonNorton
Its teaching a method to doing math. We all do it. It feels pointless with small numbers, but 5593+2939=5600+2932=6000+2532=8532 much faster
EmpoleonNorton
Or 5593+2939=5592+2940=5532+3000=8532. By learning the METHOD on something easier, they can extend it later. Its building a foundation.
mansadamngoblin
Hi! First grade teacher here. SO the idea behind this is that it makes double digit numbers easier for younger students. Making a group of
R3troPixi3
Thank you so much! I'm omw to becoming a teacher and I had a psych major challenge me on the methods used in math today, song there's only 1
mansadamngoblin
10 first and then add in the remaining balance. This is only a part of the way it is taught and it makes sense to kids at this developmental
Pr0phet5
The idea is good in essence but it's applied horribly. I teach maths too at GCSE level and I recommend reviewing this exercise.
mansadamngoblin
its probably an assessment where they have to check for understanding.
ballsohard2202
They told a 7 year old to solve it that way? Why make it so weird for a young child? (Only added to by the poor wording)
mansadamngoblin
Again, I think its an assessment. I agree, the wording is odd. Also, remember, kids are just learning how to add, they are a fresh slate.
Pr0phet5
There should be classes on just maths tricks.
mansadamngoblin
stage. In addition to this kids can use ten stick and circles, counting up, groups of 10, etc. All of these things lead to the idea of
AppleFoster
This is how I taught myself to do math in my head but a lot of people don't learn this way. Unfortunately I think it's not for everyone.
stopstalkingmeplease
HOW ELSE DO PEOPLE ADD SHIT IM LOSING MY MIND?!
summercat
This is how a lot of people do math, often without realizing it.
mansadamngoblin
number sense. Ones, tens, hundreds, etc. At the end of the day, adding 10+5 is easier than 8+7.
MooseKnuckleFudge
Of course learning 10 +5 is easier than 8+7, yet it still dumbs the children down. Why can't they be taught the straight forward way?
mansadamngoblin
Kids should learn the different styles and see what works for them, we are required however, to make sure that they are learning both.
mansadamngoblin
oh and in my mind, I would rather have a process that I understand rather than worry about remembering math facts. so chunk thinks
mansadamngoblin
things* so that they make sense, rather than remember 8+7=15 8+6= 14... Now if you dont like this you'll really hate, doubles +/- 1.
mansadamngoblin
Another way to approach 8+7 is to do 8+8=16-1= 15. All of this is done in the hopes that a kid finds out their best learning method.
mansadamngoblin
They are taught both. In a class of 25 6yo's you have people that learn differently. So you teach a variety of styles.
fewermelons16
1) That makes sense, I think the question was just worded in an unusual way. My brother is working part time as a substitute teacher and he
fewermelons16
2) told me that he was subbing for a 1st grade class that had a strange method where they would draw circles in order to do simple addition
mansadamngoblin
So in order to teach number placement you might use circles for ones and lines for tens. 52 would be IIIII oo. It helps differentiate and
mansadamngoblin
so you would start at 7 and then draw ooo and just count them up. 7,8,9,10.
mansadamngoblin
52-10 goes from IIIII oo to IIII oo oh its 42. All of this is done so that kids can prove that 52 - 10 = 42. Another might be 7 + 3
mansadamngoblin
give value to things in the ones place and things in the tens place. Also if you want to subtract ten you would just erase 1 I and recount.
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
The question is not "8+5=10". It is simply asking how to get the 10 out of 8+5. You do that by taking 2 away from 5, leaving 3 leftover.
loctrizzle
Or you can take 3 from 8; take 1 from 5; then add the 1 or the original equation and there you have it! 10! Then add the rem 3 and divide!
KwartzKitten
Considering the student couldn't spell "with" correctly I doubt they would have caught that bit. Kids can be incredibly literal.
BayazTheBenevolent
Ain't no "leftovers" in addition.
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
In the traditional sense, no. Again, its just a different way of solving 8+5. But that wasn't what the test question was anyway.
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
You add the 2 to the 8 to get 10 (the answer). Then add the leftover 3 to 10 and you have the answer, which is 13.
boopityboopboop
why couldn't the question be this?? it makes no sense to have a question that requires a half-way math answer!
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
It technically is. "Tell me how to make 10 when adding 8+5". 5-3=2. 2+8=10. We're not used to seeing it this way, but my brain so gets this.
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
Its halfway because it is only to help teach one particular step.
hopelesslystoned
I grew up in Eastern Europe and that's how we were always thought. Find the closest round number and add the rest
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
Its just a different way of thinking. It took me a good 10 minutes to figure it out, but I've never understood math as easily as right now.
MyPalmsSpaghettiKneesWeakArmsSpaghettiTheresVomitOnMySpaghetti
I was going to say, "Relevant username," but I see that you literally just made your account! Sweet
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
Lol, yeah, thanks! ^^ I've always struggled with math and this post just made it a thousand times easier for me. Pretty silly, but cool!
MyPalmsSpaghettiKneesWeakArmsSpaghettiTheresVomitOnMySpaghetti
Sweet
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
The problem is that there are some kids who will only understand traditional methods, and others like me who could have used this more :/
isavemathposts
I am inordinately happy that *this* was the post that got you to join.
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
Haha, ikr? This post actually made me feel super empowered because I was able to finally grasp the foundation. I've been practicing all day!
TrickyChlovers
I'm the opposite! I enjoy the traditional methods and I look at my cousin-in-laws homework and just want to scream!
keyserv
They want the student to make the numbers easier to add. 10+3 is easier to conceptualize than 8+5. Ffs it's not hard.
LetsGetRosettaStoned
Alternatively, you can substitute 8 = 5+3 , Then you have (5+3) + 5. Rearrange. 5+5+3. Sum to make ten. 10+3 = 13.
cheeey
It's just that the way the question is phrased and the explanation given is confusing.
sooojon
Fuck off with your logic and raise your pitchfork back up
keyserv
Onward with the witch hunt!!
HalfOpenSkies
Since when was addition a concept that required extra convoluted ways to conceptualize? Its fucking addition.
greenteasoda
It's not convoluted, just worded badly. We use regrouping in everyday life. 10 + 5 is easier than 9 + 6. https://youtu.be/8mcTsyV56jI
raunchyvachina
Since the day we want to teach kids to solve problems with logic rather than teaching kids to memorize things a computer can do faster.
CandidGamera
If that "logic" you want to push is doing simple things in convoluted, inefficient ways, then no wonder your economy's shit.
moxymox
It's pretty much a fundamental framework for algebra, only with rearranging tangible numbers rather than abstract letters.
greenteasoda
It's not convoluted, just worded badly. We use regrouping in everyday life. 10 + 5 is easier than 9 + 6. https://youtu.be/8mcTsyV56jI
keyserv
61+19 or 70+10. Which is easier to solve?
Arkitektbmw
They both are. I think the point is, most people who can break numbers down like that, weren't force fed the info. They found what worked.
summercat
And this method is attempting to teach what works, the first go-around. So kids don't have to go find it themselves.
Arkitektbmw
Yeah, that makes sense.
CapitalNick
In the time it takes to figure out what to take from 19 to put to 61, you could just add them.
dmitriwillguard
It's...it's literally what you do in your head when you add complex numbers together. I do it all the time, but not with single digits.
slayston
Nope sorry but the wording is complete bullshit. You can't say it makes sense when the language fails to convey the meaning....
ominousdusk
the directions are conveniently left off the picture. it might have explained it there.
MrMcSpiff
I think the issue is that the question was worded in such a way as to imply the end result was supposed to be 10, not that the (1/2)
MrMcSpiff
(2/2) answer would have a 10 somewhere in the equation, but that the end result could ultimately be a different number. Misleading as fuck.
Wodenifferous
Yeah, exactly. The core (ha!) of Common Core is legit. It's just taught in a fucking stupid way.
refugegamer
I do this too, but 10 shouldn't be the final answer it should be 13. 10 just confuses people
airshac
You never add 8+5 to get 10. I don't know what kind of math you are doing.
summercat
You find the 10 and add the remainder. 8+5 = 10+3.
teabobaggins
Thanks for the explanation, couldn't figure out what everyone was talking about. :D
ArcaneM37
Thank you. I agree that not every kid thinks that way, but it IS a logical way to think about math problems.
Gingerbeefe
^^ Thank you. People bitch about the declining education and instead of creating a solution, they just want money thrown at the issue
Kredence
This is not addition of "complex numbers". It's addition of "real numbers".
[deleted]
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Kredence
Ah roger that. Wasn't meant to call you out :-) These teachers....third math related post with this type of terrible/tricky teaching. Sad...
kthung
Another good way of explaining it is with time since it is base 60. If it's 4:48 what time is it 15 minutes later? 15=12+3, 4:48+12min=5:00
kthung
With 3 min remainder, so it's 5:03
Samammoth
This.... this makes sense. Thanks you
OSCgal
I do too. Wasn't taught to do it, either. It just made things easier.
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[deleted]
ominousdusk
the directions might have been more clear. they are conveniently left out of the picture
plasticsoul
I'm willing to bet the full page starts with something exactly like that. Showing a single problem takes away a lot of context here.
JustAnotherRandomCommenter
Yeah... Otherwise the question is meaningless.
LetsTalkGameDesign
taught*. Now you've learned something. I like this thread. We're learning things.
[deleted]
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OSCgal
Good on you for learning so many languages! I'm pretty much stuck at one.
NurseFeelgood
Your name is perfect for this comment
dmitriwillguard
357 + 193 = 357 + 3 + 190 = 360 + 190 = 360 +90 +100 = 450 + 100 = 550. It's the same process written for first graders.
marekk7
Yeah idk what kind of slow crazy business this is but I don't like it.
BaldBandit
(Never had CC properly explained to me, only heard the internet bitch about it.)
Barkinsons
The problem with this is that it confuses students that don't use it intentionally. It's an intuitive way to do math, not a method
ominousdusk
thank you. i dont know why people think this is the devil or something. its supposed to teach number sense
AetherMcLoud
None of these are complex numbers.
Sevulturus
To you. First grade is a little different.
BeardKhan
First grade isnt first grade. To you. hurrrrrr
PhiIIipJFry
I just add 357 + 193 without breaking it down
PhiIIipJFry
I only break down large numbers into simpler ones if multiplying
Fluffmann
I'd argue that at least up to twenty simply adding is the easier operation regardless of age. The subtraction is unneccesarily complicated.
ShakeDogResurrected
357 + 193 = 360 + 190 -3 + 3 = 360 + 190 = 360 + 200 - 10 = 560 - 10 = 550. Seems easier that way.
ShakeDogResurrected
Or 357 + 193 = 357 + 200 -7 = 557 - 7 = 550.
Arkitektbmw
Yes, but were you specifically taught that method? I've talked with a lot of people who break numbers down in vastly different ways.
BaldBandit
Let me see if I've got this. CC is asking kid to find numbers they can more easily work with to complete the equations. In this case, [+]
BaldBandit
the kids are trying to find 10 because addition from ten is simple. So you take the two from the 5 to make 8, 10; leaving 10 + 3 = 13?
MarishkaGinny
Yes. Mental math instead of blanket memorization.
chadChadChadChadChadChad
that was my understanding too. Only i would naturally take 3 from the 8 to add 5 + 5 and then put the 3 back in, but whatever
Arkitektbmw
Thank you! This right here is what's wrong with forcing a method like this. Not everyone will break numbers down the same way.
TrumdiTehViking
The problem with this is that not all students think this way so it ends up confusing the ones who use different processes.
ominousdusk
thats why common core teaches multiple ways of doing the same problem... instead of just procedural math that everyone is SO GOOD at
thepartystoohard
The common core aims to teach this type of thinking. Most adults find it confusing because they were taught differently
GodEmperorOfImgur
So, common core is putting round heads into square boxes?
Chryos
They're trying to teach round thinking and square thinking and triangle thinking to all groups, so eventually the students will (1/2)
Chryos
be able to use the type of thinking that comes most naturally to them. (2/2)
summercat
If this specific method was being forced on adults your analogy might be on the mark. But as an adult, this is how I always did math.
GodEmperorOfImgur
Well, guess you have a square head then. :P The analogy still works.
InternetLawyer
common core teaches the way you probably learned if, and teaches others like this to help understand why it works
Atomic2
1/2 Math teacher signing in. This isn't common core, this is how math is learned using compliments of 10. If you don't understand this then
XaiaX
I thought you were saying you were "half a math teacher signing in" at first.
KeeleonOhms
Except the question is written very poorly.
IllooSIV
I can't trust you though, because you are only 1/2 of a math teacher. :D
OolonColuphid
But... but... I want to have knee-jerk negative reactions to things I don't want to understand! Why must you ruin my fun?
ShiftingPattern
Yay, glad someone else said it. Engineer here. Memorization won't get you far if you can't THINK using the underlying relational principles.
Atomic2
Yup, lots of people in here went through math the wrong way and are now too stubborn to accept the reality that a better way exists.
Zombraina
I read through some other comments and I'm beginning to grasp the meaning. Maybe this is why I've hated math all my life. I'd get in 1/
Zombraina
trouble in school for using what made sense for me, and not what they taught me. So I'd memorize things for tests then forget. I'm 2/
Zombraina
completely useless at math now, considering it's so easy to just use a calculator rather than figure it out myself. /3
GoogleKnowsTooMuchAboutMe
The issue I think is the wording.
Jhecht
Other math teacher here, I've had to explain countless of these "common core" things to my relatives.
BeerNinjaEsq
Perfect SAT Math Score chiming in here. Learned math the asian way. Memorization is faster. Conceptually, I understand this, but it's slower
Jhecht
I never took the SAT, but my degree is in math and I can assure you that memorization did very, very little to help.
Atomic2
I wish we never called it anything and just rolled it out. Then nobody would be looking for a punching bag.
Jhecht
God yes. And then you try to explain it but they're shit at math so they don't understand.
ImperialWatch
There are better ways to teach addition using compliments of ten. For instance, not every lesson was handed out on a paper.
chocolatecatwizard
So you have to be good at math to understand? Now thats an odd approach to learning.
Sturmgeist13
That's a math teacher for you. "You don't know math so you don't understand" OK.
Atomic2
Theyre talking about parents and you fine folks who have a poor grasp on math and don't understand why we are doing what we are doing.
Jhecht
What I'm saying is that since they probably weren't very good at math, trying to explain this to an adult who's learned it another way 1/?
Atomic2
2/2 you never really understood math. Anyone can memorize that 8+5=13, but a student needs to understand WHY.
gad885
If you have eight cookes and i gove you five more how many will you have ...Thirteen... Yep good job son now go get me a beer. Thats the WHY
likehelly
why? why 8+5=13? because when you add 5 to 8 you get 13, fuck.
Pgoodso
Teachers/systems that blame students for not understanding "easy" concepts when those concepts get taught poorly, well, it makes me weep
BayazTheBenevolent
The phrasing of your comment makes me think you're the teacher from that pic up there.
SanguineKnave
"Never really understood math" Oh that's definitely completely true...
drdsanchezjr
why only teach 1 way to come up with the answer.
PunyYuro
The "why" is very important in every aspect of our lives, but this question is all kinds of confusing. I'd go with multiple choice,TBH
johnvictor
Which was the real failure of education when I was a kid, you were expected to memorize thinking it made you understand.
NotPatches
+1 for logic and reason over fear of something they don't understand
IAmThePermabannedAccountOfMyNameIsMrTorgue
Yeah, but if a kid innately can get past the simple-breakdown method doesn't that make 'em smarter?
banur
Not if getting past the method is memorising the answers. If the kid "solves" 8+5, but then has no clue how to do 1008+5, it is a problem.
Sturmgeist13
Ok so you know that 1+1=2. But you need to understand WHY. See how stupid that sounds?
CarltheMexicanWhoopingLlama
THANK YOU! I was taught "speed math" by my piano teacher, and it's this. This is basically teaching kids how to use the map instead of GPS.
CandidGamera
Now, if you'd only be taught to find the direct route on said map instead of driving the other way around the globe...
CarltheMexicanWhoopingLlama
You can get East by traveling West long enough. No one criticizes Physics teachers for teaching with that kind of thought process. Why math?
Lemesplain
So ... Trying to build a basic understanding that 8+5 = 8+ (2+3), ya?
Atomic2
You're on the right track, that IS the function of math that is exploited here but the kids won't appreciate for many more years.
SanguineKnave
Won't appreciate for years? This isn't remotely extensible so in years they'll have memorised the results and use better methods to add
Lemesplain
The wording is strange in OP, but I'm guessing this is an exercise they're taught in class. Nothing I learned in this manner.
Atomic2
Like I mentioned earlier, the brain of someone who truly understands math DOES learn this way. Just not explicitly.
thoushaltnotpass
Try this exercise: 7 + a = 11 (hexadecimal). If you're not extremely comfortable with hexadecimal, you'll have to split with a + 6 +1 = 10+1
Lemesplain
... BRILLIANT. That's actually really good. Thank you. I might steal that ;)
Lemesplain
So ... the basic principle is that our normal counting is base 10, so make a pit-stop at 10 (along the 8+5 path), ya?
thoushaltnotpass
That's the idea, using a base you're not familiar with just expose the process as something non-obvious
InfiniteSynapse
I'd rather let the kids find their own techniques though. I'd say "you can try this" not "do this". They still get the same answer anyway.
Atomic2
Yes and no. There are objectively better and worse ways of doing things. A lot of kids, when left to their own devices, will just count.
Sturmgeist13
A kid learning how to count using math? We can't have that now. /s
Atomic2
You're either deliberately missing the point, or you yourself are not a very mathematically inclined person.
Atomic2
That will forever tether them to a lower level of thinking.
InfiniteSynapse
I guess. But a guy learned to perform complex forumlas on his own. You might end up trampling on some genius by forcing techniques.
HalfOpenSkies
This was still phrased in an unclear way.
ominousdusk
how do you know the directions didnt explain it? this is one conveniently cropped problem on a whole worksheet.
Atomic2
I can see that. But I'd bet the students did this in the classroom and one poorly worded problem does not invalidate the entire lesson.
CandidGamera
It actually does. Either incorrect terminology was introduced earlier, or incorrect terminology makes testing what was learned invalid.
Atomic2
I cannot stress this enough, this has nothing to do with "Core" or the problems schools have had rolling it out.
thatwomanwiththebeard
It doesn't invalidate the lesson but makes it even harder for students to appreciate/understand. Teachers are supposed to make learning easy
Atomic2
You need to see the bigger picture. A student that knows how to add sums over 10 will never need to memorize a thing in their lives.
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
Exactly. I was never taught this as a child. My mind is boggled at being able to understand simple math equations for the first time.
Atomic2
A lot of people are very stubborn and can't handle the realization that they don't know something. Last time I posted this I got flamed.
zbaerenlovesme
Seriously my kid's 2nd grade teacher helped me understand math and I cried in a tiny chair that day.
summercat
A lot of your posts are in the negative, despite being accurate. Some people just want to hate on "Common Core".
iactuallyunderstandmathnowholycrap
That's sad. The memorization method never worked for me. This foundation makes it so simple and I'm learning it at age 30 on imgur, wtf.
Atomic2
Never too late. I was great at math but never took grammar/spelling seriously. The internet fixed me.
magamilk
The question is poorly phrased. And there isn't a difference between memorizing 8+5 and 8+2+3. At the end of the day it's just lots of 1s
Pgoodso
I understand it the way YOU said it. That question is a poorly worded trap whose only result is to make a student feel shame and hate math.
Atomic2
We're only seeing 1 problem. There was [hopefully] a full lesson behind this that the problem was quizzing on.
Pgoodso
True, but that terrifyingly means there's a lesson plan that makes math students learn bad sentence structure to get a test question right.
Pgoodso
You don't "make" 10, you say "USE 10 to get the answer to 8+5". Easy enough change.
Atomic2
Sure, I won't defend the wording. I'm here giving insight as to what the lesson is trying to convey.
ThatOneNicolasCageGif
I like how math was taught back then. With adding sticks together and counting them. None of this common core bs to be honest.
zbaerenlovesme
Have you been to an elementary school or only seen internet stuff about it? My kids are taught core math with sticks and blocks.
Atomic2
I cannot stress enough that his has nothing to do with core.
zbaerenlovesme
Have you been to an elementary school or only seen internet stuff about it? My kids are taught core math with sticks and blocks.
ThatOneNicolasCageGif
I was taught core math with sticks and blocks around the 1st grade back in 1995. Never with a question as bad as the one on the pic.
BYERE
but WHY would we need to calculate it in sets of 10? Why not just do proper addition and make 8+5=13?
banur
Because it is a concept of splitting additions into simpler parts that make the whole thing easier.
Ewynn
I understood the question only after I looked at the answer. And I still dont think kind of math lessons is necessarily. Yes in order to 1/
Ewynn
Learn math you need to the every part of the elements (grouping, partition, etc.), but this one in particular is ridiculous. 2/
Ewynn
The main beauty of the math is in the freedom of your choise, but this task makes you to think in the way teacher wants you to. 3/4
Ewynn
Also it is equal 10 in the field of module Z/30Z if you replace + with an *. Yeah, abstract algebra FTW!
IWouldLickThat
Some things, like facts, don't have a WHY. They just are. I understand they are teaching a method here. (So, a HOW, not a WHY.)
EerieBarlow
Regular person checking in. Understanding the "why" used to be simple and we all got by just fine. (1)
EerieBarlow
You have 5 apples, Scott takes 3, Scott = a dick.
Atomic2
You may have, but many didn't and it was not their fault. While other kids' minds filled in the gap between memorization and understanding1/
Atomic2
some kids' minds just didn't and they never understood why. They gave up an came to the conclusion that they simply didn't get math. And 2/
Atomic2
all their parents and teachers came to the conclusion that the student simply wasnt trying hard enough. The reality is math should be 3/
konkertheedwarder
This is still how I add 8+5. I don't trust myself to just remember that it's 13.
Atomic2
As you shouldn't. Memory is not infallible, logic is.
BeerNinjaEsq
Perfect SAT Math Score chiming in here. Learned math the asian way. Memorization is faster. Conceptually, I understand this, but it's slower
drdsanchezjr
Do you use an abacus to teach this method?
Atomic2
On rare occasions. Its a last ditch effort. Abacus can become a crutch just like a calculator or finger counting.
drdsanchezjr
Well, you know your students, so if you teach this method and you find some that can't grasp the concept right away(like myself) (1/2)
drdsanchezjr
an abacus might help to get them started since it is a more visual approach. (2/3)
Melanisia
I didn't learn it in school, I taught myself this stuff when I was making change as a waitress.
Ardbeg
I am getting my PhD in partial differential equations this summer, and I don't understand any of this.
OolonColuphid
Sounds more like you don't want to understand it. I'm sure you could get it if you tried.
drdsanchezjr
Tell how to make 10 when adding 1+1
DorMin2
When you add two hard numbers together, do you ever break them down into chunks that are easier to work with? This is exactly that.
ilPino
well _clearly_, to quote a math teacher, "you never realy understood math"
Ardbeg
I can live with that :). To quote Shaw: He who can, does, he who cannot, teaches.
Paladinsabre
oh nice burn
drdsanchezjr
https://youtu.be/TMTkedIUX8U
drdsanchezjr
Right, haha, I know exactly who you're talking about. They like to sniff their own farts I think.
Lemesplain
Good luck on thesis defense. Actually ... Use this. If you can adequately BS an explanation for OP, you can defense your thesis, no prob.
Ardbeg
Thanks! Im pretty smart but not that smart.
peoplearehorsestoo
I'm not a teacher of basic mathematics but is it truly neccessary to teach this explicitly? Do you yourself calculate 8+5 in that manner?
TheComputerScientist
I'm not a math teacher either, but that's how I do it. 46 + 28 = 50 + 24 = 74. Or 12 * 18 = 12 * 2 = 24 * 9 = 180 + 36 = 200 + 16 = 216
OphelianAshe
I do 46 + 28 as 60 + 14. Is that the same thing?
banur
It is the same concept which is asked in the question. For 46+28 you can as well go 44+30. Or however you like to make the addition simpler.
Atomic2
1/2 Everyone who understands math does this already and don't realize it. If you even for a moment hesitate and have to "Remember" what it
Atomic2
2/2 is, then I have bad news for you... you don't understand math the right way.
peoplearehorsestoo
Of course, I'm only saying that if you calculate 8+5 by changing it to 10+3 then that is no indication of understanding. As for larger 1/2
StSycho
This is why I had hard time understanding numbers without any context. Make 10 out of 8+5. How the fuck do I do that. 1/2
StSycho
Using real world examples. You have 8" piece of lumber and 5" piece of lumber. How do you make 10" piece out of them. This makes sense 2/2
banur
It is more like "Add 8 eggs and 5 eggs. Show when and how you filled the 10 slot egg box.", the answer being 8+2 or 5+5.
Arkitektbmw
Honestly, I completely understand the concept. I just don't remember learning it. What grade math is the above problem?
Atomic2
You likely were never explicitly told this but deduced this on your own. This is late 1st or early 2nd grade math.
Arkitektbmw
That makes sense. Has teaching this "trick" if you will, shown an increase in understanding?
Arkitektbmw
Obviously it will, I'm just curious if its taught as a trick or if the focus has bled more into "this is how its done."
Arkitektbmw
Obviously it will, I'm just curious if its taught as a trick or if the focus has bled more into "this is how its done."
drdsanchezjr
I don't get this, given the provided information. The closest thing to a correct answer I could think of is http://imgur.com/p2NqHeI
Atomic2
You're over thinking this. Imagine you have two piles of coins, in one pile is 8 coins, in another is 5. Pretend you DONT already know that
Atomic2
You're over thinking this. Imagine you have two piles of coins, in one pile is 8 coins, in another is 5. Pretend you DONT already know that
Atomic2
8 and 5 is 13. What you can do is move two coins from the pile of 5 to the pile of 8. Now you have two piles of 10 and 3. Now thats easy to
Atomic2
rationalize that 10 and 3 is 13. Much easier than 8 and 5 is 13. I'm speaking from a developmental psych standpoint.
drdsanchezjr
No, I assume this is a lesson on place value, but that is only an assumption due to the lack of information provided.
Atomic2
Its not. There is indeed a wealth of context a small picture on the internet is not showing you.
delightfullyhardenthusiast
Could you explain that a bit more? Why does 8+5=13? From what I understand/was taught, it equals 13 because 8+5=13..like 8, add 5, get 13..
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CandidGamera
1) How? 2) No it isn't.
banur
Re-read the question. It doesn't ask for the result of 8+5, but rather how to get 10 when performing the addition. The answer is 8+2 or 5+5.
CandidGamera
Great insight there. It could also be 6+4. Or 3+7. Or 2+2+2+2+2. Or 1+2+3+4. Or 1+2+1+2+1+2+1. Yeah real superior method.
IAmNotACleverMan
On a larger level, it's kind of the idea behind taking 67+42. Most people see 60+40 to get 100 first, then adding 7+12 to get 112.
stopstalkingmeplease
*cough*109*cough*
IAmNotACleverMan
My original problem was 60+52 but I liked the other one better and I didn't change the answer... Fuck
stopstalkingmeplease
It's what your mind automatically does. When adding large sums, you start either the highest e.g. 100 and then add the rest from there.
Atomic2
Its a little tough with only 140 characters but I'll try. Basically instead of memorizing the FACT that 8+5=13, which even a parrot can do..
Atomic2
you teach a student to reason that 8 is 2 digits away from 10, so when you're adding something to 8, say its 3, you'd go 1 stop past 10..
Atomic2
and youd get 11. If you add 4 to 8, you'd go 2 stops past 10 and get 12. If you add 5 to eight youd go 3 past 10 to 13. And so on.
irishmn
Fine, but the question is get 10 from 8+5. You don't. 8+2+3 is 13. You might hit 10 in the middle, but adding 3 makes 13. You CANNOT get 10.
EmpoleonNorton
"make 10" is probably the name of the method. You make 10, then add the remainder. So 8+2 makes 10, 3 is the remainder, 13 is the answer.
summercat
The point is to find the 10 and the remainder. Further, we don't know if there was a fuller explanation in class or on the sheet.
MysticalPidgeon
I think we all get that now, but nowhere in the original question is that made clear
summercat
Unless, higher in the worksheet, there's a definition of what "Make Ten" means.
sum1else
There is no remainder in addition. This isn't modulus division.
banur
The question is not proof 8+5=10, but rather to show WHEN you get 10 while performing 8+5.
CandidGamera
"Never because I'm not an idiot." Might as well ask "Show how your face hits the ground when you walk 10 meters."
sum1else
No, it's telling you to show how you can get a result of 10 when adding 8 + 5. That's what "make" means in the context of addition.
irishmn
You can't get a result of 10 from 8+5. The problem is that 8+5 doesn't "make" 10. It "makes" 13.