As a 4th generation white American. We FUCKED up. Bringing up my PoC family doesn't degrade me. It puts us all on equal footing. It's how we all look out for each other.
Let's make it more realistic. After the shackles, change her clothes into rags, put her on a dais, and let's start the bidding. Have buyers critique her teeth, her eyes, her breeding capacity, her ability to do the work, and whether she'd be a good bed warmer.
For men, wonder aloud if they care if their women are used by the master, ask how long will their backs last after doing the landscape and hard maintenance work.
I visited Chile’s version of the holocaust museum, Pinochet’s politics. It was stark and awful. Tens of thousands dead. To be chained like this is unspeakably worse. Treated like cattle.
What’s happening to children in Palestine, women in Sharia states, how do people not look at other HUMAN beings and say that’s a human being?
We can have opinions, emotions, illnesses, beliefs, they can differ. But a human being should never look at a human being as other than oneself.
There was an exhibit in NOLA my extended family went to. At one point, there was an arrow passage you had to go through that included period illustrations of how slaves were packed in ships’ holds with an audio message about the conditions.
And the doors malfunctioned, trapping us inside for 3 cycles of the message.
It was a merest taste of what our ancestors went through, and my grandmother almost passed out.
I thought I was ready for the lunch counter simulation at the civil rights museum in Atlanta. I was incorrect. I needed to be alone in silence for quite a while after.
It is truly disgusting how humans treat other humans. I can at least wrap my brain around being racist in a general sense (usually fear of the unknown), but looking someone in the eye and still being grotesquely cruel will never make sense to me.
Now think that other cultures did this, irish indentured, jewish slaves in egypt, koreas had the longest ubroken line of slavery, and while those are all terrible in their own right, they tend to pale in comparison to chattel slavery in the US and the Caribbean. Like, if those examples are 8-10, what happened here during that time is an 11, plain and simple.
I can't imagine the terror of being locked away on those boats, unable to move, sit or stand. Pissing and shitting yourself. If you were seasick you might not have made it. If the boat capsized you would just watch yourself drown. With worse horrors waiting for you.
After visiting the African American History Museum in Detroit, a museum guard asked me what I thought of the exhibit. I said then, and I’ll say forever that every white person should have to experience that exhibit at least once.
American Chattle slavery is acknowledged to be some of the most brutal and cruel slavery to have ever existed. That's impressive. Roman slavery, just killing whole cities and taking survivors for servitude, is like soft gloving by comparison.
Roman slavery like all those before was captured soldiers or people on lands lost in war/battle - yes, they had to do labor but it was not much different than life under their original king/emperor/price, etc ... (once a peasant serf, always a peasant serf) - shelter and food was not easy to come by this new master might actually better than the old master ... American slavery like all American things, a business driven by numbers & accounting ... ok for getting food in 5 minutes, horrible in
When I was a kid we had a reenactment of the Underground Railroad we could sign up for. It went through being evaluated and bought as a slave, sneaking away in the dark, hiding in a crawlspace while officers beat on the door and searched the place, using songs and codes to communicate-- among other things. This was back when the actors were allowed to physically grab us, too. It was terrifying and I'm so glad I did it.
They stopped doing it because parents complained it was inappropriate...
I went through the same thing. It was a field trip when I was in middle school I believe, we went to a place called Camp Joy, but it was anything but joyful. We did the full slave reenactment, went through auction, hid under floor boards, escaped in the night, chased by people with torches, the works. It was horrifying and eye opening.
That sounds exactly like ours, but we had to specifically request to sign up for it in 4th grade rather than a normal fieldtrip. I remember before we were chased by the actors with torches they had us rub cut onions on the bottoms of our shoes to mask our scent from any dogs chasing us, though I don't recall if there were actual dogs loose or if it was a recording of barking. Hiding in the crawlspace with the boots thumping above us and furniture being shoved aside was completely terrifying.
Ohio in the 90s, but I don't remember the place that ran it. It was a whole big deal to sign up, we had to have both a parents permission and also a teacher sign off that we were mature enough to go, plus like a 2 month window to back out. They knew it was intense.
Several of my friends had younger siblings that they wanted to send, but were told signups were permanently cancelled. I really hope the group still does it outside of school, it was such an illuminating experience!
Some Republicans have had the audacity to downplay American slavery. "It wasn't all that bad. They were rescued from a hostile land where there were no laws. They were given room, board, and clothing, then free skills training."
No choice. Taken by force. Many killed in the attempt. About 1.5 to 2.4 million slaves died on the voyage to America. Horrible conditions. Horrible treatment. Downplaying it is abhorrent and evil minded.
Proof they believe in a vile God or no God at all. Any kind of just God would put you into that slavery in this or the next life for promotioning such an idea.
I absolutely cannot stand the appeal to civilization that they do, the notion that just because other peoples have structured their governance in a fundamentally different way than the "rule of law" system of kings ruling down from on high inherently meant they were "barbaric savages".
Judging from history, it is the culture we came from that was barbaric, not those that we exploited and eradicated.
It makes me want to scream at them when they say that shit.
Remember, it only stopped when they changed the laws so that they couldn't just target the slavetakers, but the sellers and buyers too (the US was one of the last buyers so making europeans stop selling to them was critical, and probably why they suddenly got so cagey about keeping slaves as they couldn't 'just go get more').
A slave ship would typically take 3 years or so before being caught (and crew killed) by slavehunters, but would only take months to pay for itself. Capitalism needs laws.
I bet racists would call Blazing Saddles and Django "Woke" now, because they feature a black lead and paint rich white men as the bad guy. (Spoiler alert, they usually are.)
This feels like someone experiencing vacation slavery. Throw her on a boat for two months. Have a couple of her friends or relatives die next to her in chains. Strip her naked and auction her off to someone with a whip who wants hard labor. “Welcome to America”
You're not wrong about the vacation slavery. I'm also discomforted when people like this talk about themselves, about what they did, in an attempt to 'prove' empathy and seek forgiveness, rather than simply express shame, sorrow, and everlasting regret. Especially when racial injustice still dominates the lives of many.
It sounded like she was running a list of ways she’s progressive. Im neither a psychopath nor a sociopath. I have been a pedant on occasion and certainly a pessimist, a bit of a misanthrope, and a frequent sceptic. Are you a utopian or a quixotic?
And racist white people will be all "It's been so long, we don't owe them anymore, we're all equal, right?" And, no. For what white people did, we will never be equal. That debt will never be squared. How could it?
As a white people, my response to that horseshit notion always is : "Fine, in which case black people can enslave us, rape us, kill us, and in a few generations it wouldn't matter because it was so long ago."
Slavery has been part of humanity for thousands of years. I wonder when transgressions of the past are considered archived? Interesting to think about.
And I agree with you. History has shown the US institutions and its people have continually repressed and isolated former slaves. It took over a hundred years for them to get even basic protections. These factors made generational wealth nearly impossible for most to acquire. I'm not talking about 1% type wealth, simply passing on some capital.
I have a similar question about Archaeology. How long does it have to be to be Archaeology vs just grave-robbing? Does everyone have to forget/not know that it's there, or is it a time constraint?
freakdiablo
As a 4th generation white American. We FUCKED up. Bringing up my PoC family doesn't degrade me. It puts us all on equal footing. It's how we all look out for each other.
OmNachoMama
Let's make it more realistic. After the shackles, change her clothes into rags, put her on a dais, and let's start the bidding. Have buyers critique her teeth, her eyes, her breeding capacity, her ability to do the work, and whether she'd be a good bed warmer.
For men, wonder aloud if they care if their women are used by the master, ask how long will their backs last after doing the landscape and hard maintenance work.
cactuskid1956
Trump gonna erase this
teardropivyyearofthetiger
I visited Chile’s version of the holocaust museum, Pinochet’s politics. It was stark and awful. Tens of thousands dead. To be chained like this is unspeakably worse. Treated like cattle.
What’s happening to children in Palestine, women in Sharia states, how do people not look at other HUMAN beings and say that’s a human being?
We can have opinions, emotions, illnesses, beliefs, they can differ. But a human being should never look at a human being as other than oneself.
Dannyalcatraz
There was an exhibit in NOLA my extended family went to. At one point, there was an arrow passage you had to go through that included period illustrations of how slaves were packed in ships’ holds with an audio message about the conditions.
And the doors malfunctioned, trapping us inside for 3 cycles of the message.
It was a merest taste of what our ancestors went through, and my grandmother almost passed out.
MrsHowVeryDareYou
I thought I was ready for the lunch counter simulation at the civil rights museum in Atlanta. I was incorrect. I needed to be alone in silence for quite a while after.
It is truly disgusting how humans treat other humans. I can at least wrap my brain around being racist in a general sense (usually fear of the unknown), but looking someone in the eye and still being grotesquely cruel will never make sense to me.
IncognitoEnthusiast
Now think that other cultures did this, irish indentured, jewish slaves in egypt, koreas had the longest ubroken line of slavery, and while those are all terrible in their own right, they tend to pale in comparison to chattel slavery in the US and the Caribbean. Like, if those examples are 8-10, what happened here during that time is an 11, plain and simple.
G0MeatCube
Also never forget how Labor day became Labor day...
Saxytimes
I can't imagine the terror of being locked away on those boats, unable to move, sit or stand. Pissing and shitting yourself. If you were seasick you might not have made it. If the boat capsized you would just watch yourself drown. With worse horrors waiting for you.
ridureyu
They are both in danger of prison time or summary execution by ICE agents for taking part in anti-Trump speech.
AmericasTorturedBrow
After visiting the African American History Museum in Detroit, a museum guard asked me what I thought of the exhibit. I said then, and I’ll say forever that every white person should have to experience that exhibit at least once.
mrsdowneyjr
I was in a further concentration camp in France- holy fuck
Feralkyn
Damn, as someone not in the US anymore--the virtual tour exists, but doesn't have close-ups of any of the exhibits.
AmericasTorturedBrow
I guess as a consolation prize, at least you’re not in the US.
MakeItBackAlright
American Chattle slavery is acknowledged to be some of the most brutal and cruel slavery to have ever existed. That's impressive. Roman slavery, just killing whole cities and taking survivors for servitude, is like soft gloving by comparison.
Jbelkin
Roman slavery like all those before was captured soldiers or people on lands lost in war/battle - yes, they had to do labor but it was not much different than life under their original king/emperor/price, etc ... (once a peasant serf, always a peasant serf) - shelter and food was not easy to come by this new master might actually better than the old master ... American slavery like all American things, a business driven by numbers & accounting ... ok for getting food in 5 minutes, horrible in
Onlyhereforthelaughs
You can read about history, but to experience even a tiny bit of it can be a real eye-opener.
DocWino
For now you can read about it. In a generation or two with maga, it will be washed clean.
shalafi71
Pretty sure her eyes were already open, not a case of someone changing their view.
Cruxia13
When I was a kid we had a reenactment of the Underground Railroad we could sign up for. It went through being evaluated and bought as a slave, sneaking away in the dark, hiding in a crawlspace while officers beat on the door and searched the place, using songs and codes to communicate-- among other things. This was back when the actors were allowed to physically grab us, too. It was terrifying and I'm so glad I did it.
They stopped doing it because parents complained it was inappropriate...
Onlyhereforthelaughs
That definitely sounds memorable.
reddles
Sometimes it's appropriate to make things uncomfortable. :-(
Jbelkin
How about the two hour "interactive" shift at Chik Fil A?
Knightmare200
I went through the same thing. It was a field trip when I was in middle school I believe, we went to a place called Camp Joy, but it was anything but joyful. We did the full slave reenactment, went through auction, hid under floor boards, escaped in the night, chased by people with torches, the works. It was horrifying and eye opening.
Cruxia13
That sounds exactly like ours, but we had to specifically request to sign up for it in 4th grade rather than a normal fieldtrip. I remember before we were chased by the actors with torches they had us rub cut onions on the bottoms of our shoes to mask our scent from any dogs chasing us, though I don't recall if there were actual dogs loose or if it was a recording of barking. Hiding in the crawlspace with the boots thumping above us and furniture being shoved aside was completely terrifying.
titoitoi
Where was this? And are the re-enactments no longer run at all, or just not the grabbing bit.
Cruxia13
Ohio in the 90s, but I don't remember the place that ran it. It was a whole big deal to sign up, we had to have both a parents permission and also a teacher sign off that we were mature enough to go, plus like a 2 month window to back out. They knew it was intense.
Several of my friends had younger siblings that they wanted to send, but were told signups were permanently cancelled. I really hope the group still does it outside of school, it was such an illuminating experience!
cytherians
Some Republicans have had the audacity to downplay American slavery. "It wasn't all that bad. They were rescued from a hostile land where there were no laws. They were given room, board, and clothing, then free skills training."
No choice. Taken by force. Many killed in the attempt. About 1.5 to 2.4 million slaves died on the voyage to America. Horrible conditions. Horrible treatment. Downplaying it is abhorrent and evil minded.
jjp803127001
Proof they believe in a vile God or no God at all. Any kind of just God would put you into that slavery in this or the next life for promotioning such an idea.
phoenix071
Not to mention separating families, rampant rape, medical experimentation (with no anesthetics), among countless other horrific things
TheDoctorCrankenstein
I absolutely cannot stand the appeal to civilization that they do, the notion that just because other peoples have structured their governance in a fundamentally different way than the "rule of law" system of kings ruling down from on high inherently meant they were "barbaric savages".
Judging from history, it is the culture we came from that was barbaric, not those that we exploited and eradicated.
It makes me want to scream at them when they say that shit.
agonarch
Remember, it only stopped when they changed the laws so that they couldn't just target the slavetakers, but the sellers and buyers too (the US was one of the last buyers so making europeans stop selling to them was critical, and probably why they suddenly got so cagey about keeping slaves as they couldn't 'just go get more').
A slave ship would typically take 3 years or so before being caught (and crew killed) by slavehunters, but would only take months to pay for itself. Capitalism needs laws.
ridureyu
Some republicans? ALL republicans. Every last one.
sundaymondayhippyday
Yep
v
TheN8
I always push them to explain what they think Africa was like. Unsurprisingly, they can't.
Rips4w
They liked it so much none of them ever tried to risk their lives to escape.
TinaH
Wasnt the Underground Railroad a thing?
Rips4w
Nope. Railroads didn't exist underground back then. Straight up propaganda.
katolu
And it's all being white washed away. Shameful.
KleptoKea
The American People choosing to forget the lessons of slavery and apartheid, just as they are forgetting the lessons against fascism from WW2.
Onlyhereforthelaughs
I bet racists would call Blazing Saddles and Django "Woke" now, because they feature a black lead and paint rich white men as the bad guy. (Spoiler alert, they usually are.)
TexMexHex
Sinners.....who be the bad guys?
enterusernamehere25
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1dGppdHZ1M3I1OGRiMDd2bnVwdzdiYmlhMDUydmgwY2ZlY3Q5ZTJ5dCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/31X1R0MVMRaHttUkEY/200w.webp
AskThisGuy
Mr. T. was asked if his gold chains were heavy. He said, nobody ever asked my ancestors if their chains were heavy.
Bigblackdick69
I pity the fool who doesn't respect Mr. T
RadioFloyd
oprondek1978
He chose the name so people would have to call him Mister.
MenloPart
...because racists tend to call black men "Boy."
Dobbies
True. He recalled his father being called 'Boy'. He swore he would not tolerate the same
smorsdoeuvres
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlaGtwczdobHVlYTV0dTRsYTJod2Rxc3AzMGc4ZWRzcjVydmtvMXJhciZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/18m0dEpCOuUyQ/200w.mp4
Lampmonster
He stopped wearing them after Katrina iirc. Said it felt wrong wearing a lot of gold around when people were struggling.
brownribbon
You do recall correctly
Gotnobrain
Not bad that he demonstrated the life an morals of a successful black man. The world is short on real role models.
CyanideBreathMint
And that was an important, and incredible interview.
fknbastard
This feels like someone experiencing vacation slavery. Throw her on a boat for two months. Have a couple of her friends or relatives die next to her in chains. Strip her naked and auction her off to someone with a whip who wants hard labor. “Welcome to America”
titoitoi
You're not wrong about the vacation slavery. I'm also discomforted when people like this talk about themselves, about what they did, in an attempt to 'prove' empathy and seek forgiveness, rather than simply express shame, sorrow, and everlasting regret. Especially when racial injustice still dominates the lives of many.
DontLookAtMeInThatToneOfVoicee
I don't know.. I think saying you've read books is also a way of communicating you've chosen not to be ignorant
titoitoi
Black people: gee, thanks.
gnomedeplume
call me oversensitive but I don't think anyone should have to experience what slaves did
Djones06236
You are a fuckin bastard. No one has to experience exactly what others did to have empathy.
fknbastard
What she said was empathy?
Djones06236
She was showing empathy. Are you a psychopath or sociopath?
fknbastard
It sounded like she was running a list of ways she’s progressive. Im neither a psychopath nor a sociopath. I have been a pedant on occasion and certainly a pessimist, a bit of a misanthrope, and a frequent sceptic. Are you a utopian or a quixotic?
EMHPicardo
keyblader1985
Onlyhereforthelaughs
And racist white people will be all "It's been so long, we don't owe them anymore, we're all equal, right?" And, no. For what white people did, we will never be equal. That debt will never be squared. How could it?
LuminoZero
I think we could make it right, but we never will.
Onlyhereforthelaughs
But what could we do that wouldn't be undone by a bad administration?
thrashingcows
Lyrics “There’s not enough water in the world to wash the blood from our hands.”
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titoitoi
As a white people, my response to that horseshit notion always is : "Fine, in which case black people can enslave us, rape us, kill us, and in a few generations it wouldn't matter because it was so long ago."
Onlyhereforthelaughs
Sounds fair. They'd probably even treat us better than they were treated, because they would better know how it feels.
BJWTech
Slavery has been part of humanity for thousands of years. I wonder when transgressions of the past are considered archived? Interesting to think about.
And I agree with you. History has shown the US institutions and its people have continually repressed and isolated former slaves. It took over a hundred years for them to get even basic protections. These factors made generational wealth nearly impossible for most to acquire. I'm not talking about 1% type wealth, simply passing on some capital.
Onlyhereforthelaughs
I have a similar question about Archaeology. How long does it have to be to be Archaeology vs just grave-robbing? Does everyone have to forget/not know that it's there, or is it a time constraint?
Micah408
The answer I've heard is that when a corpse is no longer wet because of it's own juices. Liquid's gone, archaeology.