SarahJ462
533958
18852
839
Feb 3, 2017 1:25 PM
SarahJ462
533958
18852
839
PhenTsoksar
How much does an subContinent Indian have to personally pay in education expenses to be a neurosurgeon vs in the USA? This = The problem
Whendoigoon
I saw a great comedian the other day, his joke was "Really Bob? Muhammad Shwarma Shack? That was YOUR dream?"
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
Isn't it great when people trivialize very complex issues with one line tweets.
zerdath
Obligatory, "no-one-steals-your-job-someone-gives-away-your-job" comment.
TotallyTrustworthyInternetPerson
How are Kate's smelly armpits related to this?
FWBatman
How is Abdi a neurosurgeon with no degree? Ah, the importance of comma placement.
doriangay
YES. I had to scroll an embarrassingly long way down the comments to find the level of grammatical pedantry I was looking for.
lilmole
alternately: yes kate with a communications degree and a salaried job, these people performing back-breaking menial labor are taking yr job.
thenoisegeorgemichaelmakeswhenannbreaksupwithhim
there really aren't that many neurosurgeons amongst the immigrants/refugees. i know, shocking.
SalvalecRhaplanca
Saying that it's more the companies' faults for exploiting immigrants willing to work for less is more valid than pretending this never 1/2
SalvalecRhaplanca
happens, period. My dad is an IT project management consultant who's been out of work over a year and when he has gotten work in the 2/3
SalvalecRhaplanca
last few years the wages have been lower and his coworkers have been mostly from India or sometimes China. We had to sell our house. 3/3
Markodgt
Yes of course, it's so obvious. the people with no money and no power are the ones screwing you over in our society.
suntzupup
Conservatives think politicians in power keep others poor/dependent on aid to keep their power. i disagree but we should know their views
neil137
they mean low skilled jobs.
YesItChecksOut
Remember how in 'Grapes of Wrath', farmers in Cali kept flooding the US with 'help wanted' ads, even though the labor market was choked?
MisterLemons
Once again instead of targeting the real problem, tell people it's the next lower class' fault.
forsale90
Until you are at the bottom end. Then Marx is your only friend. (hey it even rhymes!)
BlancheKnott
Divide and conquer.
nothingontv
In my experience foreigners aren't "stealing" any damned thing. I see people taking jobs that a lot of us think we're too good for.
ashmenon
To be fair, there ARE immigrants with very advanced professions who have to take low-level jobs simply because of the lack of recognition >
ashmenon
> of their unis, etc.
spainlikethecountrylavenderlikethecolor
More like major company's run by people like the POTUS outsourced/gave away your jobs so they could make gobs of money while you stay po'.
ThePsychoanalyst
We make U.S. millitary uniforms in sonora mexico
spicepoet
I like how when he met Abe as president elect he even asked for South Korean manufacturing contacts that Japan has. Taste the C of interest.
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
US trade policy incentivized businesses to do that for the last few generations. It's not the fault of businesses, they're here for profit.
OriginaIPoster
My dad complains about jobs being taken by imigrants while working for a company that lets off 100s while he makes robots to replace others
FriendlyGuyInWindowlessVan
How many layers of irony is he on?
Chromeburn8
The 9th layer of irony for those who lack self-awareness.
RogueTampon
He's probably reached Ogre-level of layers.
Fleurtastic
75% of computer and science degrees in the USA are immigrants. - PBS News Hour
VernonLamb
Work in medicine. Majority of providers (like over 75%) not born in USA.
theworstpersonontheinternet
Most of the complaints are 1. Mexicans coming in for low paying jobs, and 2. IT jobs that have actual professionals needing work.
thesixthcourier
IME (I've worked for 2 Vendors and 1 partner) if your job can be replaced by an H1B or offshored, it's not actually skilled. The majority >
thesixthcourier
of those positions are "data analytics" (making spreadsheets), Helpdesk, and Teir 1 support. None of which are truly skilled positions.
theworstpersonontheinternet
While i agree, this is why people hate immigrants. Why analyst from overseas when it could be a local one? If you say price, fuck you,Murica
thesixthcourier
I agree wholeheartedly, but I'm also an Socialist, and since I happen to be American that makes me a devil worshiper =p
theworstpersonontheinternet
National Socialist here. So I am literally Hitler. An economy based on people's work instead of debt? No wai! Itll never work!
TheGame21x
Immigrants can't steal jobs. Employers take jobs and give them to immigrants who'll do the same job for half the pay and no benefits.
thefire259
.
BoxesofFoxes
And don't forget: no job security, no sick leave, and sometimes threaten them with deportation to get them to do even more work.
TheGame21x
All these people mad at immigrants for "stealin' their jerbs!" are mad at the wrong people. And that's just how the corporate elite want it.
thesixthcourier
It's sad that they tend to be the same people who throw around "socialist" as if it's an insult and worship capitalism.
skelitor120
Because every illegal immigrant is a neurosurgeon and every jobless american must be uneducated
owmyribs
My racist gran-in-law once managed to criticise "Indians" for stealing all the jobs, AND never doing a day's work, in the same sentence.
HipHopSaint
ahahaha funny how we as humans can contradict ourselves in the same sentence and be ok with it
altrdgenetics
having worked in tech sector... this does have the possibility to be accurate. The fault is pricing the job so only H1-Bs take it.
onehazyafternoon
What about the young people working their first min wage job? You want to cheat them out of that too?
CliffWestern
Can we talk about how entitled you are to think that the job belongs to you and somebody else stole it?
3rdweal
You pay your contributions as a citizen of a country, you expect to be considered before the citizens of another.
CliffWestern
no that's not how the world works. A job is one person offering wages for work. That person can offer it to whomever they please. to say 1
CliffWestern
that you deserve something someone else is offering is entitled. You haven't earned anything by being born somewhere. 2
3rdweal
No one deserves anything, but for the citizen of a country to be favored in their country above non-citizens is a reasonable expectation.
CliffWestern
considered strictly on merit. Otherwise we are just consolidating privilege and stacking the deck in our favor. 2
CliffWestern
under what metric? If we assume private individuals (not governments) and no exploitation, the ethical approach is that all candidates are1
3rdweal
Do you pay taxes?
teuro
Automation is "stealing" jobs. Production levels stay same but amount of jobs is decreasing. Guess what'll happen soon to transport industry
filophobia
Previous generations recognized increased productivity per capita should increase wages and shorten workweeks. Sadly, increases were hoarded
teuro
And shuffled to off shore accounts dodging taxes.
bohjeenie
Except jobs open up for robot production, service and maintenance. If your job relies on outdated ideas and you do nothing about. Tough
giraffealope
It takes far less manpower to maintain a robot than to do the work it replaces: otherwise, there would be no robots. Labor will always fall.
GreenYawgmoth
Production levels are actually going up while the number of jobs in those sectors goes down.
marsgoose
Blame the robots! Progress has been going on since forever, people just move to other jobs, why not now?
jfd8u438fdsfkds
Robots doing the work of humans aren't the problem. Wealthy hoarding all the benefits for themselves is the problem.
Chromeburn8
What you mean low pay and stagnant salaries keep middle class from growing but increase the divide between the rich and poor. The 1930's
DynamicWeight
We may come to a point in time where there simply isn't enough work for everyone to be able to participate.
filophobia
That point is basically already here, for anyone curious: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jan/08/cut-working-week-urges-thinktank
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
Ok, which ones?
jfd8u438fdsfkds
And each time a robot replaces a person, wealth is concentrated even more strongly in the hands of the wealthy. Capitalism needs to end.
Chromeburn8
Capitalism's overriding desire to create profit through any means ultimately destroys society.
Chromeburn8
As long as those decisions are made by only those who benefit the most, it will not change. Employee owned corporations might help.
xSGx
It's almost as if the world is moving toward not every single person needing to make a Meaningful Contribution to keep society running (1/
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
yeah, but in the meantime we have huge chunks of the 1st world in poverty because they have no job opportunities.
xSGx
and we could reasonably, I don't know, let people work shorter shifts at greater wages and take advantage of all that tech to have more (2/
xSGx
time for people to enjoy their hobbies and friends and family. Replace the jobs that can be done by robots with robots, and instead of (3/
xSGx
having one person working 40+ hours at a job requiring human judgment/finesse/whatever, have two or three people split the shift such (4/
xSGx
that everyone is working less but society as a whole is running fine and most people are contributing and still paid a living wage. (5/
slaaneshBuiltMyJetbike
Star Trek Socialism FTW!
xSGx
Unsure if this is sarcastic or not or how Trek handled it but honestly. Democratic socialism is the dream man. When there are more (1/
xSGx
empty houses than homeless people in the US and we throw away more edible food than it would take to feed the hungry, and the only (2/
xSGx
reason given for not just providing people's basic needs is "but then they wouldn't have EARNED it, bc MONEY!" like... we have a problem.
slaaneshBuiltMyJetbike
No I was serious. I don't think it's viable right now with our current technology and social development, but the ideal government would 1/
AZDan2012
It does saturate the market, takes lower wage workers jobs, some undocumented use false or stolen SSN and ID. Its a real thing.
thisplaceisnotforyou
If it's such a real thing, can you provide 10 verifiable instances in which this happened? I'm dying to know.
IggyBibs
Undocumented folks paying taxes SSN they'll never receive benefits for will keep social security solvent for an extra couple years.
spicepoet
Wouldn't worry too much. In the past 6 years automation has been increasingly replacing low level citizens and illegals in almost all fields
PartyStone
Northern europe got worker-unions that prevent that (tweet is from a Norwegian)
Mentallyhorsestable
That's because northern Europe is properly populated
PartyStone
Do you mean population density evenly distributed?
orangedoorhinge
Factory jobs sometime in the near future... so get yer education cause they might not be there pretty soon
orangedoorhinge
I think that's the point here, it takes low skilled labor jobs most americans don't want to do away. Also factory automation is gonna kill
TheOtherLeftCoast
This. People bemoan immigrants taking labor that frankly most Americans believe they're above.
Maanee
I've worked with an illegal alien before (he used a brother in law's SSN and info) at my current job. Shit jobs are still jobs to many.
thisplaceisnotforyou
If it's such a real thing, can you provide 10 verifiable instances in which this happened? I'm dying to know.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
Regarding your market analysis, mind sharing which labor economics model you're using? I'm assuming you're an economist, given the claim.
AZDan2012
15 years banking fraud investigator. 10 years small business owner. Real life experiences.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
How did you manage to calibrate your counterfactual based only on "real life experiences?" Did you account for sector growth? What's your 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
take on labor substitutability vs complementarity? What's your take on the elasticity of factor substitution in different industries? 2/2
Cryolith
Absolutely this. Our company had an R&D position open for two years. Only applicants were from overseas.
credex
Where are all the graduates complaining they can't pay their student loans because they can't find work? Not hiring with poetry degree?
Arcfluke
It's like the only time they actually do care about the jobs they don't want is when someone they don't like takes it instead of them.
kuriosly
Are you really picky? Because this is really weird to me.
Cryolith
I wasn't the hiring manager, but I don't think so. He seemed pretty eager to fill it actually.
kuriosly
We hire internationals, but we are picky, and we generally don't hire them from overseas (they already are in the states).
ChrisThrasher
I would argue.... Though with some hesitation. That mayhaps some of the people in the US cannot afford college. Thus no degree?
Cryolith
I agree. Lack of access or even awareness of the programs that are available is a big problem.
YesItChecksOut
It might be just this, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
WillemHellfire
The video is old, but disturbing nonetheless.
AllTheGoodUsernamesWereTaken
Somehow I don't think overseas applicants to R&D jobs are replying to american newspaper ads
YesItChecksOut
Have you actually watched the vid?
readbackmonkey
How much were they paying? H1B's tend to come in lower than the market, if you have a job open that long you need to increase the salary.
Cryolith
Pay commensurate to experience and qualifications, most likely. I was not the hiring manager, just worked with him.
cyborgpirates
I wish people would stop saying this like it applies to every H1-B. At huge employer and H1-Bs get paid the same. Source: hiring manager
chillerluvcats
Yet oversea teams still get paid pennies. Literally. .05 per data sheet at some companies. It's cheaper than building a modern automation sy
cyborgpirates
Could be, but that has nothing to do with H1-B
Da3n
I too work at a large firm and this is 100% bulllshit. H1-B are payed way below market. That's why entire divisions are all h1-b. You 1/2
pokos33
Depends on the employer and the job they're looking to fill.
Da3n
I too work at a large firm and this is 100% bulllshit. H1-B are payed way below market. That's why entire divisions are all h1-b. You 1/2
Da3n
have to compare your firm to what a non H1-B firm pays for that job. 2/2
cyborgpirates
I don't think you get it. I know how much people make on my team, both H1-B and non-H1 at the same level. H1-B in my company is the same.
thisisspartacuss
That's not true at all, they have to get a Labor Cert proving they're paid at least at market salary. Source: tax and immigration lawyer
ireadthatassomethingelse
Except for Disney: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/14/us/judge-says-disney-didnt-violate-visa-laws-in-layoffs.html?_r=0
thisisspartacuss
That decision wasn't about the salary, it was about whether there were "willing and able" Americans who wanted the jobs. That part's (1/2)
thisisspartacuss
(2/2) a bit more subjective, as to whether the American workers were "immediately available"
SexySquatch
But can you see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch?
thisisspartacuss
Yes, sugar. Lots of sugar
thisisspartacuss
Yes, sugar. Lots of sugar
SexySquatch
Wait..it's not magic? My life is a lie...
spankin
It all started with manufacturing. This is now spilling over to technology. Look up the hundreds of companies outsourcing to H1B.
MrSisterFister
Manufacturing jobs were disappearing anyway. And those H1-B cottage companies wouldn't hire citizens otherwise, H1-B is their whole margin.
spankin
They let skilled workers go to hire H1B to save $. They make the requirements so only a H1B only can fulfill that same job, its criminal.
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
If you work in the tech field then you know this is a constant source of stress.
SaltyTurnip
What kind of jobs in the tech field?
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
Engineering, IT, customer support, testing, manufacturing, etc
SaltyTurnip
Hm. I've never heard of that for engineers. Does that include software engineers or just other kinds of engineers?
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
Yes most types.
thisplaceisnotforyou
You have no idea what you're talking about. I have friends with H1B's and they are paid the same or more than comparable positions.
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
There are examples for both POV. You sample size doesn't represent the entirety of society.
thisplaceisnotforyou
H1B's are for highly skilled professionals. Show me one goddamn example of an H1B worker under-cutting an American. Just one.
spankin
Disney, EmblemHealth, Carnival Cruise, Abbott, South Carolina Edison, Abbvie all come to mind. Be informed look it up yourself.
thisplaceisnotforyou
Disney was looking to outsource and pulled that plan back. I was on Carnival 2 weeks ago and white people won't do that work. Try again.
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
How about the fiasco at Disney where IT staff were forced to train their cheaper replacements or have severance denied to them?
thisplaceisnotforyou
I have never heard of that, but if you have detailed and verifiable specifics I would love to take a look at it.
fusk
Beerke
gablestout
DeanOMiite
SpartanBurke
jo3v
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8hfP1-4vxA
Frykook5643
The next post on viral is this reference!
achievegreatnessbutwaitnapfirst
Yakuza boss die! Yakuza very mad!
analnipple666
NAMBAH WAN!
sendstufftomyinbox
THE BEST
MichaeIScott
I wonder what I would've been back in my country
HighSlayerRalton
jadenkorr121
Get this to the top!
FlexKavana
I JUST SWIPED TO THE NEXT POST AND ITS EXACTPY THAT FUCKING GIF WTF IS GOING ON?!
Sypher11705
Well I guess the argument would be, my grandfather fought for this country, many of his friends died for it. What did their gramp do fir it?
Klaxun
Your grandfather's daddy was an immigrant. That's the answer.
Sypher11705
And even if he was, this country was nothing till MY great grandparents and before made something of it. Your's did nothing.
Sypher11705
Actually, he wasn't. My paternal lineage traces back to the colonial days. Maternal goes back to Cherokee Indians and French colonists.
Sypher11705
Mexicans, Syrians, Iranians, it's not about race. Your countries are crap because of your ancestors. Build your own paradise, like mine did.
SHiNiXiA
https://youtu.be/Dbq_YNPdL8E
StoleFromReddit
rhodawggg
Coconut penis
hashbot
The coconut is subtle....
SpartanBurke
SheldonthemachineLevene
True story...I friended this guy on Facebook and he wishes me Happy Birthday every year. Likes random posts too.
finallystoppedlurkingonimgur
To me, that's really sweet. He doesn't treat you like a follower
RobertEmmet
Isn't that stuff funny? Ben Vereen followed me on twitter a long time ago; I'm still over the moon about it.
BednaR
WilliamShatinher
I don't get this image macro.
uwantsomelightlyfriedfishfillets
"You got a lot to learn in this town sweetie "
FubinacaZombie
What line of work you in, bob?
HalTheMisinterpretivePornStar
But mistake!
IfYouDontFinishYourCommentIWill
Techtronic
But not really mistake. Is good doctor.
thissitestealswhatcouldvebeenmyproductivity
Yakuza boss had to go. I mean, who could argue that the world didn't need "coconut penis" energy drinks?
TheFrodo2
What is happening here
MichaelScar
The coconut is pretty subtle...
TheFrodo2
What is happening here
MichaelScar
The coconut is pretty subtle...
VeryMoistTowelettes
Toderdj
Thanks for the source!
VodkaSauce
The Best!
Djmachale1
There it is
TheBrett
This was a house episode. Aussie doctor killed darth vader cuz he was a bad dude. Wilson was also in this episode.
GoodbyeCassini
Goddamn it Imgur. Pretty sure TheBrett was just saying this plot happened in House also. Chill with the downvotes.
SnakesAreAwesome
I always feel sad for him. If he was the best surgeon why didn't he become a surgeon here? He is in America but he works in a warehouse.
shmekie
Doesn't want the Yakuzas to find him, so he can't use his real name, and thus can't prove his certification/accreditation
IdleReprieve
excellent
NotAMeatPopsicle
What movie is this from?
ChrisGibbons
Great white buffalo
blessedarethecheesemakers
Hot Tub Time Machine.
cheezitschrist1
The Office, Season 6, Episode 21: "Happy Hour"
ifitseasytakeittwice
You da real MVP
TheAuthorOfTheJournalsMyBrother
(US)
NotAMeatPopsicle
Ah, thanks Cheezits!
CarryKnuts
You're whalecum
Lobstrositiesbitme
The 40 year old virgin. But spoiler alert, the black guy cuts his girlfriends head off
NotAMeatPopsicle
Take my upvote you inglorious troll. :D
RussianJudge
HellaPictureSeeing
Also how I remembered it
SunshineRose
Plenty of jobs here in Florida picking oranges, 12 hours under the sun fighting snakes and you get $35 per day!!!! You even get water breaks
Bombarder89
If you live in dfw area you should truly be ashamed if youre unemployed...there are 10 places hiring within walking distance of my house.
tightsarenotpants
Central Valley, CA here. I would love to see these complainers survive a day in the fields this summer.
SunshineRose
Exactly!
danlei
You get more here if you are unemployed :D
Snickt
You only get unemployment for awhile. Able bodied adults with no kids can't get shit, unless they lie...
Areyoubiginjapan
modern slavery is great isn't it?
ihavewaytoomanycats
You can cut fern down here too! $0.35 a bundle, no limit! Bring your kids to work. Must supply own rubber boots (rattlesnakes like fern)
chimichangatemptress
My husband gets paid $12.50 the hour for a specialized job. Also he's got an MBA so... pretty much
BobHacks
12 an hour!?!?! That's better than Walgreens
Legacies00
I read picking organs...
MrButler
just more proof that illegal immigration is driving down wages. Farmers should pay a living wage and hire legals. I'll pay more for oranges.
Phaggotboy
Illegals actually get payed well, I don't have numbers on agri but on contruction they get like 11$/hr vs 14$/hr for natives on average
INeverThoughtIdMakeThisAccount
From what I've read (one extremely anecdotal book), agriculture is shit for them
LordxGodxKing
instead of allowing that, should we be stopping that. Sounds like slave labor
imachikenlol
Gross, Florida...
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
Can we stop with that argument? Most undocumented workers do not work in the agricultural industry.
RosyCheeks20
If illegals were better off in ____ than in FL picking oranges for $35 a day, then they can decide that for themselves. Give them the choice
katwilm
And Merikans can't even handle it.
cockiemonster
i thought they has machines that pick all the oranges?
lawlawlawl69696
You're kidding right?
saucefordipping29
Ladders basket, and a guy. Plus orange trees have thorns
NewProtectorate
Sounds like slavery to me. Guess it's time to enforce that minimum wage.
NewProtectorate
LOL never thought I'd get downvoted for suggesting we pay better wages to Mexicans. Why do you guys hate Mexicans so much?
WookieWookieWookie
You can't enforce it in that sit. It's illegal to pay them anything, they aren't allowed to be here.
swinglinered
might still be liable
ElbowDeepInASnake
Everyone commenting on how that is hurting us is failing to realize that those wages are why a lot of things are so cheap for them to buy...
NMlove
Their wages are so low that their kids are on food stamps, free school, health care. which costs more than saving on cheaper products.
ElbowDeepInASnake
I understand that aspect, I'm just saying that most people fail to realize how much the prices of certain product or services would go 1/?
ElbowDeepInASnake
Up, if all the low paying jobs taken by illegal immigrants were to suddenly start paying at least federal minimum wage. Or that the jobs 2/?
ElbowDeepInASnake
Would simply become automated and jobs would be lost rather than given back to the American people. I'm not saying their aren't better 3/?
mitzialbright
See, harvest should be piece work (see Canada and Straya)
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
But that rate is illegal bc it's below min wage. That's why illegal immigration creates problems like cost of living imbalances.
SunshineRose
Of course it is, but even at $30 am hour it's a challenging job, the hot Florida sun and the humidity and the critters!
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
Yeah, I was born there. Did a lot of outdoor manual labor as a kid in summers. Sometimes I miss it compared to my office cube life now :)
TheJudgeHasItBackwards
But is it more effective to go after the guy/gal who get $35/day (nothing to lose) of the corporation hiring illegal workers (lots to lose)?
DrYoloMcSwagmasterIIIEsq
But you can't take away the Democrat's precious quasi-slave labour, California's even threatening to secede from the union!
5po0ky
Lolwut
5po0ky
Lolwut
Bombarder89
If you live in dfw area you should truly be ashamed if youre unemployed...there are 10 places hiring within walking distance of my house.
spoontheory
Divorced White Female? Where is that?
spoontheory
Divorced White Female? Where is that? Or i guess divorced female white... down forest Whitaker... Detroit fort worth?
Bombarder89
Not sure what divorced or not has to do with anything...if youre looking for a job you can find one...I put myself through University
Bombarder89
By working 2 of those jobs you consider bellow you
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
I'm going to assume dallas fort worth, but he assumes everyone lives in his microcosm
Bombarder89
Dont gove me that shit...if youre willing to work there are always jobs...I have been working full time since I was 16...
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
No, there are less jobs than working age adults.
Bombarder89
Not sure if youre aware but DFW is either 4th or 5th metroplex in the US (gdp wise)...if someone cant figure out what DFW stands for while
Bombarder89
Having internet handy theyre probably too stupid to understand what I am saying anyways. You would probably fot well in that group but
cboxchamp
Ehh it happens. I say DMV (D.C, Maryland, Virginia) on here all the time and most people know I don't mean department of motor vehicles
Bombarder89
Then again she isn't most people.
TobySomething
Fruit picking actually pays $15-20 an hour, but Americans don't want to spend all day laboring in the sun and migrating with the harvest.
saucefordipping29
30 days with morgan surplock went to work on a orange farm it was very eye opening. It is on Netflix. The only ones to do the work, illegals
TobySomething
Older article ($12.50): http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/05/27/136718112/georgia-farmers-say-immigration-law-keeps-workers-away
PsychopompGecko
Similar story in North Carolina when they looked at how many legal citizens came out for picking.
Ooglygoogly
Things changed a lot since 2011, back then my job would've paid 15/h I make 27/h at a junior position
rando84
If a crab fishing boat tried to pay $15 an hour, they'd also get few takers. Let the market set the wages--if a job requires high skill 1/2
rando84
or is very unpleasant, employers should have to pay enough to attract workers. Some low wage industries will leave (textiles), so what. /2
SidneyHarbor
That's exactly the reason having illegals is wrong: the employers profit by skipping out on labor laws, since illegals can't report them.
GodEmperorLetoAtreidesII
Good. I like cheap food prices.
trppdinthebltywy
If only you could make it so they could report crimes or exploitation without risking deportation. We could call them sanctuary cities!
IamtheFloridaMan
My grandfather worked in the sugar canes and was paid in rice that he had to sell to pay rent. It was still better than 2B executed in Cuba.
Askingforafriend37
In my opinion, the illegals and the employer are both wrong in this situation. They shouldn't be here illegally, and the employer (1/2)
Askingforafriend37
Shouldn't be taking advantage of the illegals. I feel bad for the illegals most though, because they came here because of crappy conditions.
Ooglygoogly
Yet somehow a man who made his living off not paying LEGAL workers was elected to fix that
Counterfit
Don't forget the models his agency brought in to work on non-work visas. Like his current wife.
PatrikLilja
I've seen leftists supporting more immigration because "they take jobs americans don't want".
PatrikLilja
Which to me is even more racist then just banning them from entering the country.
Saustino
so why are democrats on board with keeping them here? why are they obstructing getting them deported or making them legal citizens?
RPCd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city
bryanreed
Or we could pay $5 for a potato. World hunger anyone?
deliciousMulansauce
Because the workers' wages are the biggest cost? The pivot point?
WookieWookieWookie
That's my problem with this. Yes it's unfair, but I'm not gonna pay $4 for an orange. All you'll do is force production to another country.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Exactly. It's hurting the illegals as well, they're being exploited. The "enemy" are the corporations doing this, not the poor schlub /1
Baja2185
How is it hurting them exactly? Employers following minimum wage laws would ensure they never got hired again. Then they would stay in
Baja2185
Their countries and starve.
Baja2185
The biggest mistake leftists make is thinking they can change something and everything else will stay the same.
Cardenjs
Plus there are some immigrant "mules" who take half of the earnings
10tacles
On the other hand many had even worse conditions where they are from.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Oh, well then, that makes exploiting them ok.
10tacles
Just pointing out that the world is darker than people realize as they usually take themselves as the standard.
ABillionDucks
I mean...it's either $35/day or 0
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
That doesn't make it not exploitation. They choose the $35 because it's better than 0, yes. But it's still not a fair wage.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
picking cherries for way below minimum wage. And btw, if those jobs were bumped up to minimum wage and given to Americans, all the prices /2
SidneyHarbor
I'll only partially dispute this - it would food increase costs in the short term, but then HUGE robotics & automation investment happens.
Counterfit
The automation is happening anyway. The main hurdle is how do you pick stuff that's very fragile and also requires strength. Like berries
SidneyHarbor
Which is overall a good thing, because it's better to have machines do manual labor than people, IMO.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
for food would increase dramatically. Right now the bulk of Americans are getting a huge benefit from illegal workers. Produce, clothes, /3
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
any industry that uses illegal workers. The prices of the resulting products are much lower than they otherwise would be. /4
Zet741
Or you could, ya know, set up a system that does allow illegals to report these practices without fear of being deported for it..?
Saustino
NO, fuck this. Either make them citizens or deport them! we need to stop illegal immigration now!
AdmJota
Or even make it easier for them to come and work legally in the first place, with all the paperwork they need to do it above board.
OhHowTheTurntablesHave
Zet741 is weak on immigration. Weak on Borders. No federal funds for Zet741 ?
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
but then they'd still be unemployed
SidneyHarbor
Yeah that's the rub - the company gets a fine, but the immigrant gets fired, possibly jailed, then deported. Pretty asymmetrical.
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
It's illegal for him to work here. If he involves the authorities, he's not going back to work regardless. He's breaking the law also.
aahrg
What part of illegal don't you understand? Come through the gates in the wall and you won't get deported.
Ooglygoogly
Double standards? Americans only worry about illegal immigrants because the last time that happened natives lost their land to diseased ppl
Corsair212
Haha, try overstaying your visa in Europe, or a South American country.
TurtBurglar
HAHA this is America. Immigrants don't get rights.
Nawoi
Don't have to delve very deep in history to prove your point.
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
Please, defend your statement
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
What the fuck are you talking about?
Falkornn
Homie doesn't understand the difference between legal and illegal immigration.
Saustino
"illegal immigrants"*
PewPin
You realise they are ILLEGAL right? In the end, both the employer and employee are breaking the law.
Zet741
Bin not endorsing illegal immigration as many of these comments suggest people think. My point is that, yes both do something illegal, (1)
Zet741
But only one will be punished for it. The employer uses their illegal status to take advantage of them and break the law themselves. (2)
UncivilizedEngie
They are illegal, but they are called HUMAN rights, not citizen/permanent resident rights. If human rights were enforced, employers (1/2)
Worble
I get the joke but most 'they tuk ar derbs' people complain about low level education jobs rather than highly skilled foreign workers.
honestb
Right but the point of this is that's not whose visas are getting revoked because you don't get visas to do those kinds of jobs.
Olestra
Database administrator here, guess who I'm competing against for jobs. not a fan of the H1-b visa program
OldmanSerious
I was on a forum for computer contractors nearly 20 years ago, and the biggest peeve of the US members was the H1-b visa program.
johnvictor
The kinds of jobs they want back but don't want fast food workers to be paid more because it's low skill, manual labour. WTF?!
Nawoi
Meanwhile computers will take over accounting, sales and support. Know your enemy. And well, learn to pick up a broom asap.
BrownSugarBae
Most of the time it's people complaining about jobs that they themselves are too proud to do anyways.
flippetrippiehippie
Derbs is slang for dabs, dabs are marijuana concentrate. This made me laugh, we should share our weed.
GreaterDog
Until the H1B visa debate comes around. I'm hoping the bill to raise minimum pay for exemption to $130k goes through.
elBajoNegro
I can see it now *sitting on couch, hasn't applied for work in months* "They're taking all our joooobbbbbssss" *eats Cheetos*
yaFuckingWeapon
and? if you are SO stupid you can't get a decent job, i have no mercy if someone else takes your job
NotTodayNotYesterday
You're underestimating the stupidity of most. My uneducated brother gets pissed at the thought of more qualified people getting employment
DJThuglifeSupreme
Like they're going to accept being payed $5 a day to compete with overseas labor?
lyneeth
The jobs immigrants take are vege/fruit picking for £2/hour.No native will work for that much, and if the pay is increased its unprofitable.
SirWinstonTwoMonocles
Indeed. Most countries have specific visas for highly skilled workers they are lacking
Lugh314159
Wouldn't a "low level education" job be, like, a Teacher's Assistant, or something?
mbus
This may get buried, but EMPIRICALLY speaking, foreigners really only compete with other foreigners in low-skilled work. (1/2)
mbus
American nationals don't actually see much (if any) economic competition from low-skilled immigrants populations. (2/2)
TroutYabo
Aka factory workers ect
TimonTheGreat
DIR TEK IR JIBS!
drhubz
Durkadurrrr
Treblaine
FYI: Trump equally "took our job" when his businesses applied for so many work visas for cheap labourers from Mexico.
TJskillz169
And it's also not just "they tuk ar derbs" there is a lot more too it. Thanks south park.
AStegosaurus
It applies to highly skilled work also, since they allow non-citizens to get subsidized higher learning while citizens have to pay for it.
IncorrectingYou
For the love of God, these people need to get a CDL (A or B). USA is filled with local driving jobs that pay we'll/benefits/401K/paid vaca
Vedar
Is it? I wonder what the rules are if I wanted to move there from the UK.
IncorrectingYou
Valid license for the state you reside/drive in. You'd have to take classes to get a CDL. Est are we're short 30-80K drivers and growing
egocomplex
Not true at all. I manage tech in the largest bank in the world. More than half our System guys are offshore. US $100K+ job ~India $22k job
egocomplex
Ex Disney IT workers filed lawsuit bc Disney had them train their Indian counterparts then laid off their IT in Florida. White collar jobs.
AskingTheRealQuestions
If you get outcompeted by a Somali immigrant with no language skills, you have to be pretty fucking shit anyway.
Vedar
or not willing to work in a job with bad pay/working conditions.
TheShiftyEyedDog
if a low-education person who speaks english as a second language "takes your job", you are a fucking moron
MasterNateT
I get what you're trying to say, but low level education jobs can also be highly skilled jobs. Painting a house, for example.
grri
as a longtime painter, the only difference between me and a dedicated amatuer is the speed at which the work gets done.
NevermindThatShitHereComesMongo
AS an employer, I would take the high level technician for the janitorial job before the janitorial sciences minor with no experience.
Bombarder89
I could literally walk outside right now and drove for 10min and find more than 5 locations hiring...each which pay $10+ per hour...
AngryGroundhog
85% of manufacturing jobs have been lost to automation/efficiency. Unless Trump's going to outlaw robots, he won't be keeping his promise.
Nostradamuswaswrong
Why are they blaming the employees rather than the employer? You know, the one who chose who to hire.
connerfusion
nobody's blaming the employee, this is called a strawman.
Ooglygoogly
How many of those complainers wanna clean pools? Or Starbucks? Or is it just below them? I know plenty like that
iggyface
Indeed. People need to avoid classist or elitist remarks when trying to combat other prejudices.
Galhaar
See, that's the fault of corporations giving away jobs to those that are easier to exploit.
CherryEmpress
Exactly. Blame the people taking advantage of those with no other options.
AnonOmis1000
No they didn't steal our jobs, the companies game them away.
Ooglygoogly
How many of those complainers wanna clean pools? Or Starbucks? Or is it just below them? I know plenty like that
NEEDZMOAR
I mean how else are you going to trick low educated poor people into voting for you to make your rich friends richers. its actually 1/2
NEEDZMOAR
2/2 quite brilliant
DoctorOwly
Really most are low level service jobs and manual labor... Which most Americans look down on, and don't want to do anyway. The real 1/2
DoctorOwly
Issue is all the outsourcing from companies who'd rather pay people in India 5 cents an hour, than pay Americans a living wage. 2/2
OxiWF
Exactly. The joke is always that immigrants take high paying, education-requiring jobs, but the problem is the influx taking jobs that 1/?
OxiWF
Require no training, making it harder for young people or unemployed people to get money and/or training that they need to progress in 2/?
OxiWF
Their lives. These high paying jobs are oversaturated by other countrymen and women (and some immigrants) because universities start 3/4
OxiWF
Churning out way more degrees than needed in literally every field (even science and medical) leaving highly trained people with no options.
DrHenryGrabow
When we can get away from seeing the share holders as more important than the workers we can have livable wages for all.
KonaDarbles
in the UK we HATE this!!! Damn Romanians coming over here and stealing OUR POLISH PEOPLES JOBS?!?!
Sloppydrunkcatlady
I hate those people. Foreigners didn't steal your job, the company decided to hire someone they could pay less.
egocomplex
Agreed, BUT, that is why you need a degree of protectionism. 3/4 of world lives in poverty. Could simply import them and pay less.
egocomplex
For literally every job field. China and India are almost 2bill people, could easily take every IT job in America. Where does that leave US?
AskingTheRealQuestions
Unless you live in a country with no labour laws or unions, that is a case of illegal employment, which is something different.
Sloppydrunkcatlady
But we're talking about America, which does
PubstarHero
What do you think is the driving factor of most IT HB-1 visas are? I can tell you its not a shortage of qualified people.
Vaanhalen
It's the old switcheroo-- immigrants are all smart sexy drs and u complainers are all uneducated bums
DrMooses
Is that mutually exclusive? I'm a white doctor and now I'm worried.
FartyMcDumpstein
Unless you live in podunk, your job is only on the line if you're bad. You will never convince me to "buy local" when it comes to my health.
connerfusion
outsourcing your health to India is a much worse idea, I can speak from experience with Indian doctors both at home and in India.
FartyMcDumpstein
Nobody was talking about outsourcing. It's about hiring local workers vs. importing PhD/MDs. Medicine isn't IT, you don't get cheap hires.
DrMooses
Read the original comment, she mentioned immigrants doctors are more attractive.
Vaanhalen
Sexy and dangerous-- that whole "will he won't he". Does he love me more than the mission? Only my heaving breasts can save him from Khalid!
FartyMcDumpstein
No, they stated that all immigrants are sexy doctors, not that they are MORE sexy than local doctors.
ze391
I don't know too many Americans that will go pick onions 14 hours a day and live in a shack
irlrandysavage
A U.S. based company like John Deere surely could use the work that a loss of migrant workers would create and put food on American tables
irlrandysavage
Skilled American mechanics build those machines. Why buy a machine from Americans when you have a dirt cheap labor force?
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[deleted]
[deleted]
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TastyTastyScience
You lost me here. There's nothing stopping Americans from living with their relatives too.
Skibblesz
Its not a long term solution. Many immigrants come up for a harvest season and stay with relatives then return to Mexico where the
natabus
They have no legal recourse when they are cheated, or stiffed, or denied benefits. They're exploited and management likes it that way.
kittenco
... Are you serious right now? You think an illegal migrant worker, earning 5cents per bucket of garlic, ending the day with maybe $10 (1/2)
kittenco
In their pocket, earns more because "they don't pay taxes"? Do you know a single person who is willing to work HARD for less than min wage?
natabus
Just lower the standard of living and you will. Republicans are working on that.
PerkyPineapple
Honestly do any research
anakhasilver
Trump raised standard of living almost immediately, though, with the housing thing.
ArdentSlacker
Yeah, how else are we going to afford our "don't die" insurance?
Burke616
Didn't Tennessee run a program a few years ago, obliging farmers to hire local whites before migrants, and the local whites quit because 1/2
Burke616
the work was harder than they were willing to do for what they were being paid?
connerfusion
imagine if industrial revolution London factories could have just replaced workers striking for safe working conditions and fair pay.
Burke616
They tried to.
ElBivo
To paraphrase Louis CK, if an immigrant with no money, skills or english is stealing your job, you got bigger problems
mechanicalchaos
In my town in TX, finding someone to chop vegetables for min wage is a struggle. The non-aliens think they're too good for such a thing.
mechanicalchaos
In my town in TX, finding someone to chop vegetables for min wage is a struggle. The non-aliens think they're too good for such a thing.
ArdentSlacker
You're offering them less than they need to survive. If they can't pay for rent and food, they need to spend the time finding a real job.
mechanicalchaos
But then aliens are not taking their jobs.
ArdentSlacker
Yes. This is exactly correct. Even better than technically.
connerfusion
aliens are poisoning the well; without them, vegetable chopping would just have to pay more.
thestorkasaurus
You're never going to be $5 an hour better at manual labor than anyone.
AskingTheRealQuestions
Illegal employment is a different case. People are bitching about immigrants legally taking jobs they want. That is ridiculous.
ElBivo
So, work for $5/hr and level the field. Or pursue the corrupt companies evading labour laws. Or improve you own value proposition.
sorathecrow
You're suggesting someone who puts together widgets improve their value prop? Why not tell them to not be poor while you're at it.
PeterThePatronSaintOfTravel
Your suggesting unemployed manual laborers go after companies evading labor laws?
ElBivo
Yes I am, because none of the wealthy elite are going to do it for them.
HighlySexualLobster
Theres a certain way of thinking that leads to shit like this. Makes you suceptible to MLM schemes as well.
Chalybos
Ha! Not in this country.
sorathecrow
It's more like, country with high standard of living for low level jobs opens doors to people willing to work for table scraps.
PoeKneeTa
No; the REAL problem is we let our companies/corporations base their entire business on these illegal workers who are glorified indentured 1
PoeKneeTa
servants. The only reason prices for so many things are low is largely due to cheap workers on farms and shit. But we allow these 2
PoeKneeTa
companies to exploit illegals just to make these profits and undercut any competition. We need to reevaluate our government and companies.
ElBivo
Really, illegals are stealing all your jobs? Really? Maybe it's different in Canada but in my company of 2000 there is not a single one.
PoeKneeTa
I never once said that illegals "steal" jobs. I'm intelligent enough to know that all jobs given to illegals are jobs Americans don't want.
xenocyde1224
There is a big influx of H1Bs getting paid 50-60k for technical work. I hear these complaints all the time in engineering
LetsTrythisImgurThingout
That's te one part of the current shit show that may end up working out. Ending the misuse of h1-b
IBegToDiffer
It can see that it is OK for entry level permanent positions. Average engineering starting wage ranges from 50k-70k.
Casana
IT. Can confirm. Why pay for Americans when you can get the 3 for 1 on Bangalore?
RoomTemperatureCoffee
H1Bs need to be reformed but it shouldn't be in a way that makes it hard for smart, educated immigrants who want citizenship to come here. 1
RoomTemperatureCoffee
many proposals essentially limit jobs open to highly skilled immigrants. Brilliant STEM students from my school (in America) hoping 3
RoomTemperatureCoffee
to stay here are forced to leave every year after getting their degrees. It's insane. We should basically just give green cards to them. 4
RoomTemperatureCoffee
They need to make it easy for those people to stay and remove the pressure they face to accept bad offers from tech companies. Instead 2
ShouldISayThisOutLoud
Where I live, 50-60K for an engineer is good money. 40-45K is average.
eetsumkaus
2/2 by that I mean your career prospects at a place like that will likely top out pretty low, as opposed to tech hubs
myrealnameisginger
I think it depends on the type of engineer and experience level? My husband makes nearly double that.
eetsumkaus
it's good money for anyon. But you're selling yourself short if you're talented and live in a place where your market rate is 50-60K
neil137
most engineers make a lot more than that
MybolognahasafirstnameitsBAMBI
They actually just made it harder for employers to hire H1Bs
Canttaterwithouttats
Which is in my (probably unpopular) opinion, a good thing. I live in the Bay Area and the job market out here is so fucked because 1/2
connerfusion
lots of people super pissed that the minimum salary for H1B has been pushed up to a fair level, only because Trump is the one that did it
Canttaterwithouttats
Right! The most qualified person should get the job obviously. But money talks and a qualified american shouldn't lose a job because 1/2
Canttaterwithouttats
the exact thing that xenocyde1224 said. 2/2
MybolognahasafirstnameitsBAMBI
The funny thing is, the bill basically just accounts for inflation since it was passed in the 80s I believe
SidneyHarbor
Same thing I was going to point out: a highly technical US worker commands $90-120k, but H1B visa worker, same job, $60k.
spiffylookingnerfherder
So we'll see companies even more desperate for the remaining engineers, and paying them $250k+
MybolognahasafirstnameitsBAMBI
There's a bill being introduced to up the H1B pay to $130k now
IWishIHadABetterNickName
Only if taskforce of H1B is 15% or more
odraencoded
I need #muslinism because muslims make 50 cents when when Americans make 1 dollar
pwag
Union up.
chiefs86
There are companies in India (like Tata consultancy) who specialize in getting Indian workers with the barest of qualifications and...
chiefs86
(2) H1Bing them straight the fuck over to the United States where they do subpar quality IT/Data work for cheap.
seekingdaedalus
I get what you're saying... but if your business wanted expensive, skilled IT workers, they'd have hired them. Problem is they don't.
chiefs86
(2) something that virtually any entry level American worker can do, or be easily trained to do. Our business *does* have skilled IT, and..
chiefs86
(3) it is a mix of actually skilled visa holders and Americans. But our companies should be given incentives to hire and train American.
PointyHornsMcGirk
My best friend is a physicist and he works at TATA consulting. I'd say that is decently skilled.
chiefs86
Here's the thing: These guys aren't being hired for any position of skill. They're hired to be replaceable Tier 1 support, and that's (1)
xenocyde1224
Amen brother
LetsTrythisImgurThingout
Indian consultancies are getting caught sending guy x to job when guy y interviewed.
Barkman
You're getting downvoted but I have to actually deal with these dumbasses on a daily basis. +1
chiefs86
I know, I do too. For a while at my company, getting them to reset a password for any of our users was like pulling teeth.
blamoblast
All IT/Data work is cheap. Everyone just thinks their worth more!
chiefs86
(2) especially if you go into security and/or cloud computing.
chiefs86
You kiddin me? If you have some decent certifications you'll easily make $100K in the right location/company.
residentolive
Ok so then if Americans really want jobs they can accept lower pay. It's called competition. Since when did America become communist?
HighlySexualLobster
When capitalism started to favor foreigners. Its not unique. The idea of a meritocracy is very malleable as well 1/2
Chalybos
1980.
connerfusion
what other country forces it's local workers to compete with the entire world's labour pool for local jobs?
residentolive
If you want a serious answer: 1) H1B is highly limited (like 60k new spots a year) 2) almost every developed country allows skilled (and
residentolive
also unskilled) immigration with quotas just like the US and 3) multiple economic studies show that skilled immigrants create net jobs (for
residentolive
one significant example of that, see Google). Also one developed country that IS very difficult to emigrate to is Japan, and their growth
residentolive
rate has been stagnant for 2 decades.
connerfusion
and yet, miraculously, their quality of life has not been negatively affected.
HighlySexualLobster
Colleges used to just use a straight up entrance exam. When Yale noticed to many jews they added personal essays as a requirement. 2/2
HighlySexualLobster
*Notices comments were downvoted* https://youtu.be/GJQwiilMrBY?t=4s
residentolive
I didn't downvote you!
HighlySexualLobster
It did provide a sweet assist, for what i think is a really fucking witty rejoinder.
jimicus
True, but if a society is based around a typical salary, it's going to get very hard if competition halves that in a few years.
Phipsee
Like manufacturing, textiles, autos, etc. Why pump the brakes on this one job? It's capitalism, America literally prides itself on this.
Phipsee
Not that it's going super great, I'm just saying...
Jusmar
Wellbeing of our citizens? THATS SOME COMMUNIST SHIT
RoomTemperatureCoffee
The concern is foreigners can be like indentured servants forced to take sub-market pay to stay here, so it's not really free competition.
residentolive
place is at the fault of the policy's makers (and it wouldn't surprise me if many of them were Republicans in this case, but don't know)
residentolive
the visa follows the person, not the employer. That way, the company that sponsors you now has to compete with other companies to keep you,
residentolive
Foreigners willingly take less because they are used to less (assuming they are from a developing country). But I agree that once you get
RoomTemperatureCoffee
I was just reading about this and there actually is a decent system for changing b/t domestic jobs without consequences. I disagree with 1
RoomTemperatureCoffee
privilege to seek US jobs freely independently of sponsorship from any specific employer. 4
RoomTemperatureCoffee
have to take what they can get for the initial visa sponsorship. It would be better to let highly valuable/skilled immigrants earn the 3
RoomTemperatureCoffee
This is the job-transfer program I was talking about btw: http://www.immihelp.com/visas/h1b/h1-transfer.html - It doesn't seem awful.
RoomTemperatureCoffee
your first point. If people are from a country that doesn't pay well, they often really just want to get to America long-term, so they 2
residentolive
here, then H1-B is like indentured servitude because leaving the job means leaving the country. However, they could change the program so
residentolive
and the downward wage effects would be drastically reduced. But as with most things, the fact that it wasn't designed this way in the first