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Women deserve more reproductive rights, not fewer. And scientific facts should inform our laws, says Bill Nye The Science Guy.
seedmolecule
No science was cited in this post.
ImguriansFillMySaltReservoir
"You can't tell somebody what to do" So in other words you can't tell people murder/rape is bad and that they can't do it?
YourBuddyBill
You know full well what he meant by that, and if you don't, then nobody can help you.
apresminuit
BostonMatt
Haha I love that fish
20lbsLeastSquareAdjustment
Bill Nye "the left wing propaganda guy"
ianbopno
No abortions occur at conception, days to weeks later during or after organogenesis, get your facts straight condescending science guy.
CountryMan11
Regardless of your position on the issue, Nye's argument here is based on logical fallacies and assertions with no support.
0011101000101001
How does needing a microscope mean that an embryo is not a human. That doesn't make sense to me...
KeepTheEarthBelowMyFeet
Something tells me bill is only here to appeal to a specific crowd and didn't write any of that
Clarion5
I think people give Bill too much credit. He isn't some all knowing genius with a ton of degrees. Those honorary degrees aren't worth much.
clutch2999
An honorary degree and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee
Clarion5
Lol.
DooksandPooks
I'm all for more clinics giving out birth control. Because there are still idiots that use abortion as their birth control.
Mk1986
So says the man with a B.S in mechanical engineering.
kaptnsolo
THANK YOU! People take this guys word as law when it really isn't earned!
captnsteverogers
He offered no reasoning as to why a fertilized is not human. Just saying.
captnsteverogers
Found out last week that my wife is 4 weeks pregnant. That poppy seed is human. Wanna fight about it? We've been trying for over a year.
muhvitus
I think the argument universally is that when it is a person or functional human. Now it is just potential human.
cacdoodle
What defines functional human? Thats a really, really icky way to phrase it. Sounds like a disabled person is less functional, so less human
muhvitus
Generally brain is the factor. If you are mentally less capable, you might have custodian. If you are brain dead -> not a person.
cacdoodle
But is personhood binary or analog? Is someone mentally deficient therefore humanly deficient? Or a genius literally more human?
jetpackabs
Congratulations! Poppy seed is accurate. It is so crazy that they have a heartbeat at 6 weeks, but are still only the size of a pea.
zealotsveta
He still doesn't help those who are searching for when a fetus is human.
zealotsveta
However with out a doubt forcing ideologies on someone, to do one thing over the other is wrong. We're talking life changing decisions.
zealotsveta
This is how you piss off society.
omgwtfhuh
When it's born. Until then it's a parasite in a human's body.
zealotsveta
I know people who would still call their children parasites lol
talenphillips
Well, when they're 23, and still live in your house...
Hendlton
I don't get it. Neither side wants more abortions, why would anyone teach abstinence even thought we know 100% that it doesn't work at all?
SlipperyJ
Abstinence does actually work 100%, it's just that people like sex too much to consider it.
Hendlton
Well, yeah, abstinence works but teaching it doesn't.
Soraptors
True. I say, teach them abstinence is the only 100% safe way, but also the birth control alternatives.
LooseyGooseyBrett
Partial birth abortion sure as fuck is killing a human.
UndoneDuncan
Are you a scientist, though? Bill just told us only scientists can understand these things.
FuoccoBlue
Unfortunately...your satire is pointing out exactly what the praise train is doing across this comment section.
UndoneDuncan
Unless you're a professional comedian, I'm not sure you're qualified to have an opinion on satire.
cnphilli
That's where I struggle. Most people agree that Partial birth abortion is wrong and should be illegal, but where do you draw the line?
talenphillips
You draw the line the moment you decide that the fetus is a human with human rights. That point is no later than viability.
cnphilli
how do you define "viability"
talenphillips
With a dictionary: "having attained such form and development as to be normally capable of surviving outside the mother's womb"
cnphilli
OK, now how do you determine if an unborn specimen is "viable"?. Take it out and set it on a table and see if it lives?
iuploadbearpics
All abortion is murder plain and simple.
Splodgey
Oh, how simple minds think everything can be so simply defined..
iuploadbearpics
And yet you miss the irony is Billy Nye simply defining something? There are too many character limits to go into it but a fertilized egg,
iuploadbearpics
is a life by definition by SCIENTISTS. It has all 9 markers for defining it a life. If it were found on Mars, it would be a life. If it's,
verde766
This post doesn't give any actual information
aragornfrodogandalf
Yeah I'm wondering if the source has some more evidence to this claim
lizardbones
it does not, however, the fact to support it are not difficult to find
Acornlad
Bil Nye is a respected engineer, not a scientist. My degree goes about as far as his degree.
RIIIIIIGGS
The best birth control is being on Imgur all day.
BXHOVAYPCK
You die when your heart is dead, your born when you heart is alive, other then that your not killimg them but still try not to if possible
LimitDoesNotExist
Also Pornhub.
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RIIIIIIGGS
my pullout game is weak
RussianBear1942
Best birth control is Crocks with socks.
UnseenUniversity
People don't listen. According to my husband I am on imgur all day. Still pregnant
YouCapturedMe
Anal works well.
battlekitteh
Or owning 7 cats.
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battlekitteh
Semantics! ;)
rawheadrex0508
Existence has been a great form of birth control for me.
CharismaticBroccoli
I'm on imgur all day, my boyfriend is on imgur all day, and we fuck like crazy
lovememaddly
Right? 8 years on the 22nd for us and still gawd damn rabbits! Here's to sex!!!!
littlesquishablecake
Same!
BathroomHumor
It's so far been FLAWLESS for me.
littlesquishablecake
I'm on imgur all day and I still get laid...
farnation
I have been on imgur for a few year and have gotten pregnant during that whole time.. of course i am a guys so there is that
Squeezit
I had a weekend full of sex with a girl I met on imgur...
RememberArtax
You know you didn't meet your hand on imgur
Squeezit
Ha! Actually one of her pictures is posted on the ladies of imgur post awhile back. I was involved in that picture, so I wasn't too happy.
RIIIIIIGGS
deets
Squeezit
She posted a christmas selfie, I flirted with her, she responded with nude pics, we went from there. This went on for a few months.
degenerator
A faptastic diversion, it is.
RikkiTikkiWezel
Ladies, keep your legs open and if pregnant, murder that baby." -The Immorality and Cruelty of the Modern Left
Catchemall
Vaping works great. 10/10 would recommend to a friend
cgimw
What if keyboards could get pregnant?
Okebel
Ctrl+Alt+Del or Escape seem like good choice.
Eisegreis
Maybe it's time to get off the net for a while now. Rest. Get reacquainted with reality. Eat a cookie. Seriously scrub your keyboard.
Wyattcon11
I came across one that could...
BurgerBobandy
Should've used birth CTRL
SorcerorOfSnark
More CTRL leads to less DEL
SorcerorOfSnark
There would be a lot of a-board-tions....I'll just be going.
ImGonnaRickRollYou
No you get back here that was acceptable.
RIIIIIIGGS
Carry on.
TheSaintedPhysicianDoctor
Did you mean: Miscarry
colinardo
My wayward son.
robbyrobot
Agree with him or not, he's making a straw man argument. It
BostonMatt
Thank you. This is the worst logic I've ever seen on the issue. He's not even making a scientific case.
stoploggingmeoutImgurIfuckingswear
Yeah, I was hoping to hear the science side of it.
unhombremusulman
Is he? The main argument is that abortion is the extinguishing of life, and Bill Nye is suggesting that early zygotic and developmental 1/2
unhombremusulman
stages of development don't fit the exact definition of "life", and thus abortion isn't what others say it is. 2/2
LondonSing
The problem is, don't fit the definition of life according to whom? That's always been the problem, the process wasn't in question.
CocoaNutCakery
Which is completely false.
SweetMotherTeresa
I can't help thinking that most of these arguments could be prevented in the U.S. if we had better sex education.
Soraptors
To be honest, I question if sex education is really that lacking. I went through a US public school, and I know all the birthcontrol methods
SweetMotherTeresa
My school didn't even teach us how to do it. They just showed us close up pictures of std's and said "this is what append when you have sex"
MerlintheRogue
It's dependent on where you go, mine just taught "If you have sex, you'll get STDs!! So be Abstinent!"
Soraptors
Most of my knowledge came from my own research. Google isn't too uncommon.
bardwick
Yet you get a double murder charge for killing a pregnant woman.
rectalprolapse
This comment needs to be higher.
jabbadabbadoooo
I read about a guy, that snuck abortion pills, into the smoothie he served. The fetus died, and the man was charged with
jabbadabbadoooo
1. murder of the fetus, 2. Assault against the woman. The thing is, she was't over the abortion dead-line, so if she had swalloved that pill
jabbadabbadoooo
Herself, the "murder" would have been legitimate
muhvitus
Laws serve purpose.We make laws that give bigger penalty if you kill pregnant people as protection for them.The law isn't created for logic.
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Shannerwren
Well, was she on her way to have an abortion or on her way to the hospital to give birth to a full-term, desired baby?
GiantRobotsRule
I don't see the problem. If we are a free nation that lets an individual make the person-or-not determination in her own body, then 1/2
GiantRobotsRule
She can decide to press charges for her loss suffered if she wanted it, or choose to abort if she determines it's not a "person" yet.Freedom
Sintar07
So you don't see a problem with letting one person decide whether another person is a person or not?
GiantRobotsRule
If the entity in question is in her own body, and it's questionable whether it's a "person" bc it's not yet viable, she can make that call.
Sprixxen
That's when we talk about who has rights. If a fetus is wanted or unwanted. Wanted fetuses gain extended rights from the simple desire of1/2
Sprixxen
the mother who carries them. Unwanted fetuses are now in contention with the bodily rights of the woman. This is all assuming that a fetus 2
Sprixxen
is alive. This argument is 40 years old and never goes anywhere. There's too much emotion. 3/3
bardwick
So you have rights if you're wanted, no rights if you are unwanted? The law depends completely on your feelings that particular day?
muhvitus
Laws serve purpose. We make laws that give bigger penalty if you kill pregnant people as we see it merits it. The law isn't done for logic.
Sprixxen
Of course. That's why we don't charge mothers who give up a baby to adoption with child abandonment... It's not black and white.
Sintar07
But conversely, we DO charge men who want to step out on their responsibilities. We force them under threat of jail to pay up.
Sprixxen
Which is a completely different moral argument. If a father gives up all rights as a parent I'd say he isn't obligated to pay.
GiantRobotsRule
A free society that values individual liberty should respect the individual's right to make the personhood determination within her own body
DoctorPitt
Thats not being taken into questio, the question is, "If a fetus is not a person, then why is killing a pregnant a double homocide."
DoctorPitt
Pregnant woman*
GiantRobotsRule
If she wanted to keep it, she probably had (or would have) determined that it is a person, so that's why it's a double-homicide.
snarflex
This is about 97% strawman. What about when the "fertilized egg" is, say, a few months older?
LLCoolBeans
Most people I've talked to say after the fist trimester (3 months in) is no more bueno
Histrionical
Most Pro-Choice people I know are like "Yeah, once you're in the second trimester, you're kind of a shit person if you're choosing now."
Histrionical
But most don't CHOOSE in the second trimester. Something happens to their health, or the fetus. Miscarriages at that point are sick.
SuwinTzi
That's region dependent. Some parts of China had an issue with record numbers of women having abortions because they didnt like how they fel
muhvitus
In western countries late-term abortions are under 1% of abortions and often with good medical reason.
SuwinTzi
In China, doctors don't tell parents the sex because they get aborted for not being a boy or girl. 1/2
Histrionical
It's less stressful to have a dead fetus removed, even though nature will probably work itself out. Forcing someone to birth it though?
Histrionical
With the prior expectation of having the child? That is some heavy shit.
sanctusmessor
It is still not a "Viable" life. It is a "Potential" life as the fertilize egg is at Day 1. Much like cake batter is a potential cake, [1]
sanctusmessor
its not a cake until it is done baking. If you want to argue against that, give a bride a half baked cake on her wedding day...[2]
Corsair212
How about cookies? Bet you'd eat cookie batter unbaked, half baked, or fully baked...that metaphor can swing both ways.
sanctusmessor
Unbaked Cookies are called Cookie Dough; the dough implies it has the potential to become a cookie ;) Mmmmm... baby dough
sanctusmessor
It's not a cake.
Molvanian
You know what bothers me? The poster didn't include any facts. I can't imagine Bill Nye didn't give any.
Squanchers
Not sure the people he's targeting really care about citations.
TheRealEdwardRooney
Unfortunately, the Sauce is just as fact-less :( Expect better from Bill.
JimboPM
WTF are you expecting him to cite? He's not listing statistics, he's challenging ideas and pointing out basic scientific history.
ImPersistent
Unnecessary gifs are Unnecessary.
muhvitus
Value based questions rarely do. Some people think corpse is a human, others require higher brain functions. There is no right answer.
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RyanAndTheQuestForWorldDomination
Ok sure but how does that support his argument in any way shape or form??
CocoaNutCakery
It's a fallacy.
shawn98ag
He gives no facts to support the hypothesis, "Not all fertilized eggs are humans".
YourBuddyBill
It's a matter of definition. At what point do we call something "human"? Do we call it "human" when it's a part of a human?
canyonero
A degree in mechanical engineering means being an expert in all fields of science.
YourBuddyBill
No, but it doesn't preclude the possibility. Just saying.
jadespider
*bachelor's degree
rectalprolapse
And public policy!
punchthekeysforgodsakes
Someone said it! A STEM degree doesn't guarentee expertise in biological sciences. Whether you agree with him or not; needs sources.
JeremyBlaylock
I don't care what his degree is in he's smarter than you and me. He helped create something for the mars exploration mission.
HMardukas
That's probably true, but that doesn't mean we should take his word for things outside his area of expertise
shawnemack
This shit doesn't require supporting evidence, it's basically common sense
CocoaNutCakery
He never really does. He's a PC idiot that doesn't understand any of the science of any of the shit he talks about. I'm so done with him.
theycallmehiphopapotomus
I'm not that familiar with him cos of where I live, could you tell me more about the "PC idiot" stuff?
CocoaNutCakery
He used to be the host of a children's science show and lately has been abusing his former fame to try to push leftist bullshit.
theycallmehiphopapotomus
Like what? That's what I'm interested in; I'm only familiar with him from imgur!
CocoaNutCakery
It's a 140 character limit. Exactly how am I supposed to explain all the bullshit he's been pushing and why it's bullshit?
marcoyolo69
Bill nye is an engineer and host of a children's show. He is excellent at both but laughably unqualified to talk about politics
shawnemack
I'm sure your credentials are much more impressive
MrxHighway91
I don't see how anyone is unqualified to talk about politics. Even an idiot is allowed their political beliefs. plenty idiots in congress.
RainbowUnicode
Tell me who is "qualified" to talk about politics.
thelonepig
He says you can't tell people what to do, but that's EXACTLY what a law does. And abstinence IS safer, thus leading to healthier society.
thelonepig
Teaching abstinence only is a bad idea, but that's not what he says here. He says abstinence does not lead to a healthier society.
WWisLife
Safer for sure but not likely at all. It is way more practical to teach people how to be safe and give them the resources to do it.
theycallmehiphopapotomus
It may be for people who practice it, but teaching "abstinence only" is unsafe and ineffective. It does not create a healthy society.
Larkos
So is never leaving the house. The problem is that few will follow abstinence their whole lives.
YourBuddyBill
By that logic, never leaving the house is safer, thus leading to healthier society. But that won't stop you, will it?
thelonepig
Look at the 3rd gif up. Nye said abstinence does not lead to a healthier society. That's what I'm commenting on.
otternonsense85
However, you can't stop two people in engaging in sex. Teaching safe sex practices helps reduce pregnancies and the risk of spreading STDs.
thelonepig
Of course, but that isn't what was said in this gif.
starwarsgeek42
Bill Nye the mechanical engineer.
ajax111
Yes. So what's your point?
dmax12
He also does nothing to attack the fact that "Human rights" is a philosophical stance. not a scientific one is the slightest.
Glo55y
Preposterous this all science and because Bill Nye is an icon from my childhood it is true!- Beakmans World (probably)
dmax12
te rat said it didn't he? I probablt couldn't here it over the fart soundtrack though :-)
firefighter26
It probably has more impact coming from Bill Nye than some guy named Richard Dawkins (googled "respected biologist," picked the first name)
drago1337
Note, respected biologist in his field. When he starts talking about other things and extrapolating from science... eh.
RevolutionOnHerLips
Haha, there are a lot of people who don't respect Richard Dawkins, and some of them are on his side, too
Lugh314159
I have a hard time believing you're arguing about politics and science, but don't know of Richard Dawkins.
unhombremusulman
If you want a biologist to tell you the same thing as Bill Nye is suggesting, you don't have to look far.
starwarsgeek42
I understand that. What I can't stand is how Bill Nye is put up as the poster boy for so much science related stuff nowadays.
Vespy
Because the masses pay more attention to a face they already recognise.
jadespider
Yup, and everyone know a recognizable face is the best way to determine the validity of a scientific argument. http://imgur.com/hfDe3lM
punchthekeysforgodsakes
*enter donald trump*
woodjoiner
Science out reach and education are done in very different ways from science research.
Vespy
That's quite irrelevant.
caboops
Equating a miscarriage with an abortion, is the same as equating murder with dying of old age. One happens naturally.
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caboops
Or we could not punish them for doing something that is currently legal, and change the laws. But that's not a strawman so you don't care.
Soraptors
Ding ding ding. Way to debunk half the video in 118 characters.
Onimaru86
People only hear what its convenient to them. Nye , a "scientist" telling them selective abortion is fine makes people feel less guilty.
TheyMadeSoupOutOfMyResearchTurtles
In Peru congress just passed a law making "abortion by imprudence" (like spontaneous miscarriages after an accident) punishable w jail time
caboops
And the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
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caboops
Who here is advocating for making a miscarriage illegal? Have fun beating your straw man.
svga
ten comments down to find one that is actually critical of something about the post. Nice perspective, hadn't thought of it that way,
PleasantPeasantPheasant
The abortion pill is a medically induced miscarriage.
e105beta
Just like a knife to the chest is an artificially induced hemorrhage.
rectalprolapse
THIS
caboops
Medically induced. So not natural. Death by lethal injection is "medically induced."
PleasantPeasantPheasant
Can't medically induce old age though.
cacdoodle
That's kinda the thing with analogies, they can only go part of the way. No, a miscarriage isn't exactly like old age
caboops
What is your point?
rectalprolapse
There is no point. There is only fallacious argument.
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
Miscarriage is a type of abortion (spontaneous). An induced abortion is one that is caused purposely.
ThatDwarfWhoStealsYourOpinions
Their point remains the same, though. One is natural and the other isn't.
rectalprolapse
You are trying to make a statement by trying to make a connection between two vastly different occurrences. Stop that.
NobodyThinksYoureFunny
The same could be said about caboops' comment.
rectalprolapse
Having a similar medical term does not mean they are similar occurrences or practices.
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
Didn't claim they were. I was simply explaining terminology. Apparently facts are wildly offensive.
caboops
False. An abortion is defined as the DELIBERATE termination of a human pregnancy. Miscarriage is not a 'type of abortion'.
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
I'm happy to discuss your position (I'm assuming you're anti-abortion) if you'd like, though.
caboops
You sir are a good American. Personally, I believe that a human fetus has the right to life, that should not be infringed by the law.
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
And I believe that a woman should have the right to choose. The first comment was a false analogy and, therefore, a weak argument.
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldictionary.php?t=143
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
I was just informing you of the proper terminology.
caboops
Thanks, I was only looking at non-medical lexicons. It's an important distinction, though that when we are debating in a political sense 1/2
caboops
We are referring to the medical procedure of abortion, which is deliberate. I am not advocating for miscarriage to be illegal. No one is.
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
I didn't think you were. Although, your original argument is a false analogy from my point of view.
BeerAndWhiskey
I am 100% in favor of birth control. But also 100% opposed to late-term abortions where a fully formed fetus gets straight up murdered. (1)
Sprixxen
What about in cases where the mother is in danger? Does the fetus have equal rights or the mother claim self-defense and abort?
PleasantPeasantPheasant
Late term abortions, if not absolutely necessary are illegal, and most of the time unplanned (in western countries)
Soraptors
The states in which it is legal in all cases are the ones people are really upset about. Few people care about early abortions.
muhvitus
Late-term abortions luckily tend to be somewhere between 0 -1% of abortions and often with good medical reasons.
Soraptors
I'm with you entirely.
AmishTechSupport
http://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0ibjpNXik1qgcra2o1_500.gif
ArvisJaggamar
Beakman's show was a hundred times better than Bill's
BeerAndWhiskey
I don't consider a fertilized egg a person, but once they have a beating heart and a brain, I do. At that point, go with adoption. (2)
MopMustache
Late-term abortions are reserved for mothers who are being harmed by the pregnancy, or the fetus is dying/dead. If a mother has to (1)
MopMustache
terminate that late in a pregnancy, odds are that she planned for and wanted her child, and is already devastated over the loss. (2)
Robou
Yeah but you don't need an abortion clinic for that, if it's life threatening they would have it done at the hospital anyways
Taxicat
Yeah, actually, you often do. A lot of hospitals either can't or, more likely, WON'T perform an abortion.
MopMustache
Right. Abortion clinics are there for the people who need abortions that don't fall under that criteria.
hagridsbuttcrack
Yeah, and there's really not that many places in the US that do late term abortions in the first place, either.
BostonMatt
So you'd be against abortions after 8 weeks. Babies have a heart beat at 8 weeks from conception.
Varroth
You missed the part of working brain? That's past 8 weeks...smh
MopMustache
Because there's so few abortion clinics available, many women need to wait longer than 2 weeks to schedule their appointment. By then, (2)
MopMustache
there is definitely a heartbeat, and depending on your state laws, you will be forced to watch it and listen to it. (3)
MopMustache
I think it's required by law to have the fetus be ≥ 6 weeks old to begin the abortion process. Which gives a 2-week time frame to abort. (1)
BostonMatt
I don't think so. There are no restrictions. Methods might not be viable until certain gestation points however.
MopMustache
It may be state law, then. I recently went through an abortion myself, and the fetus needed to be about 6 wks along for the ultrasound.
vois
You realize it's just a romanticized pump?
RevolutionOnHerLips
A heart doesn't even need a signal from the brain to pump, defining humanity by the circulatory system is weird
ThoriumP
So is yours
ri59
But why does heartbeat matter? It's just another development of splitting cells.
iputthefiresout
I fully expect downvotes, but this is very Straw Man and fallacy of extremes. I've always loved Bill, but I expected better from him.
DynamikIP
Bill Nye has gone very downhill over the years in my opinion. Use to like him. Don't anymore.
NotoriousDuchess
I kinda agree with you. "A fertilised eggs is not a human. Abortion debate over!"
MyTimeAtTheTop
I used to like Bill, but he's foray into politics while masquerading as a scientist has completely turned me off.
lifeisonecrazyride
My problem is that he says "fertilized egg". Sperm is nothing on its own. A women that passes a fertilized egg... That's a natural process.
CocoaNutCakery
I love how he says to "look at the facts," and the people here are too busy circle-jerking about how smart they are to read posts with facts
CaptainAvatar
His points are embarrassingly weak. "We can't tell people what to do," -- our legal system does that all the time.
JapaneseStudentTadashii
Idk if he explained it better in the real video, but he's saying that women pass fetishized eggs all the time. Just a lack of knowledge 1/
JapaneseStudentTadashii
Of a woman's reproductive system.
colinkarr
Yeah...but just because a woman has a miscarriage, that doesn't make abortion justified. Just like because born-people die of natural
colinkarr
causes, that doesn't make murder justified. That's the logical fallacy here.
JapaneseStudentTadashii
Fertilized
Jolfr
"you wouldn't know how big a human egg was ..." ok this has literally nothing to do with the argument. I'm with you, I really expect more.
LaunchPadMcQuack317
An assumption that ALL pro-life people are not scientists or doctors and couldn't possibly understand this...irrelevant indeed
RoomTemperatureCoffee
My brother's a geneticist who considers abortion murder. Studying developmental bio is actually rather likely to make you value embryos more
doctorbees
He's trying to make the connection that people aren't listening to the scientists that discovered these things in the first place.
talenphillips
But the scientists aren't going to answer the question of "When does a human start having human rights?"
doctorbees
Not well-worded, but that's how it's coming across for me.
Albertiarp
Bill Nye may be a science guy, but hes not as smart as many people think, in my opinion. He has said some dumb shit.
CitizenWoot
He has a BS in Mechanical Engineering. That's it. His show was great, I watched it every day, doesn't make him a bio expert.
AssRanger
I agree. Neil DeGrasse Tyson is the same way.
MerlintheRogue
While that may be true, that doesn't make his point invalid.
tsleighbuilder
You may believe his point but he didn't prove it. That's the problem with logical fallacy.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Yeah, I'm super pro-choice but you're right. You can do better, Bill!
MmmCookiePoops
When I was unemployed with no health insurance I had to go to a clinic to find I had cervical cysts. They help more than "killing babies"
rigmus
I think mmmcookiepoops means that closing clinics that enable abortions would stop other non-abortion services from being provided.
goldenspider666
Yes. That was one of the big parts of the upset about planned parenthood being defended. It provided a lot more services than just abortion
Naiirita
Except all those services are also provided elsewhere. Also for free.
MmmCookiePoops
I'm honestly not sure how people are confused about this at all. Seems there's only black and white with these people.
SomeGeographer
My mom found out she had ovarian cancer during a routine exam at Planned Parenthood. She was 43 yrs old and uninsured.
iampete
I tried to think of a less inflamatory comparison, sorry about that if anyone is angry.
CocoaNutCakery
You know that there are free clinics outside of PP, right? You know, ones that help men, too? And also help more efficiently than PP?
flyinspaghettimonster
They do help men. They offer STD & cancer screening, vasectomies, HIV treatments, gender transition hormones, counseling, and other (1/2)
flyinspaghettimonster
Services. Oh, and condoms. Let's not forget those b
flyinspaghettimonster
Damn, Of course I had a typo. Meant that sentence to end with the word "those" lol
flyinspaghettimonster
Anyways, I'm not going to comment on their efficiency, but they do offer services for men and women.
VelociRaycho
I take birth control for this as well! I have poly-cystic ovarian syndrome, and go to Planned Parenthood for my shots.
MmmCookiePoops
Stay strong my fellow broken vachinko sister!
seridia
I have PCOS also.
quaggie
What shots do you get? I've got PCOS too and haven't heard of injections as a treatment.
VelociRaycho
I get the depo. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/birth-control-shot-depo-provera
quaggie
Ahh, I see. That makes sense.
HiroHeiwajima
If it's okay could you elaborate? I'm not I entirely understand what you mean.
StampyTheElephant
Access it otherwise.
ragnar34
Many PP clinics don't even do abortions, but just offer various health services to women. Even the ones that do it mostly do other things.
LearnedCoward
Most don't do abortions, but offer reproductive health services for women and men.
StampyTheElephant
She's saying organizations like planned parenthood do more than just give out abortions, they provide women's heath care to those who can't
rectalprolapse
I see what you mean. However, if you believe abortion is murder (not everyone does, but just for the sake of argument), what percentage 1/?
rectalprolapse
of a business' activities should be murderous in order to still be considered good for society? 10 percent? 1 percent? Zero? 2/2
NobodyThinksYoureFunny
The supreme court made it so that abortion is not considered murder. Thus, your question is irrelevant.
rectalprolapse
In American law, yes. However, the Supreme Court cannot dictate morality and many people consider a fetus a human life.
NobodyThinksYoureFunny
Human life is an unanswerable question so why should all woman be forced to adhere to your morality over their own?
NobodyThinksYoureFunny
The way you've phrased this is like me asking "Assuming abortion isn't murder, why is it wrong?"
uo111
Well if you believe abortions are murder of a human, and murder is wrong, then 0%. The point is, we don't think abortion is murder.
rectalprolapse
I also want to add that I understand where you're coming from. I'm just trying to clarify why people are against those clinics.
rectalprolapse
Many people do, though, which is why they are against everything Planned Parenthood and other clinics provide.
iampete
I'm sure the Nazis and Soviets had some pretty useful programs, too, but that doesn't excuse the killing they did, does it?
iampete
The point is that regardless of it being true, it's not a useful argument. It won't convince anyone who thinks abortion is murder.
LearnedCoward
Also, your argument won't convince people who are against abortion that they should be against clinics that don't do abortions.
iampete
I didn't make an argument about abortion :-( or at least I wasn't intending to.
flyinspaghettimonster
Your comparison of Planned Parenthood/abortion to Nazis/genocide made it sound like that was your intention. I'm not going to give you (1/2)
LearnedCoward
Spurious comparison, and I'm not even sure what your point is.
iampete
I'm trying to say that if someone says "you killed 50m people", saying that you also did mammograms isn't going to change their perspective.
iampete
It doesn't address the issue. that's all.
LearnedCoward
Most PP clinics don't even do abortions. If your issue is that some do, so be it, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater
ITalkAboutGoats
Did you just compare totalitarian regimes to abortion. Wow.
MmmCookiePoops
Yeah that just happened. The ignorance I just read is just wow
FuoccoBlue
Well...I hate to point it out but a lot of totalitarian regimes (especially nazis) were/are friendly with abortion.
ITalkAboutGoats
is it right to blacken all of those things with the Nazi emblem? No? Okay then. 2
FuoccoBlue
How am I blackening it? It was already blackened by association and participation. Hitler espoused abortion as perfect for eugenics programs
SisterSinister
It is also legal in Democracies nowadays. So?
ITalkAboutGoats
He also created public roads to employ the unemployed during their depression (CCC anyone?) public schools, national health care- 1
FuoccoBlue
There really is no moral downside to public roads...I'm not sure what your point is?
LearnedCoward
"Nazis are bad. Nazis did XYZ. Therefore XYZ is bad." Logical fallacies everywhere.
iampete
I tried not to, but it's hard. Would be easier with more than 140 characters.
Lilshadow48
No. It's not hard. Your argument is shit if you can't compare it to anything but fucking Nazis.
FuoccoBlue
Margret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) was a know eugenicist and practically pen-pals with Adolf Hitler.
ITalkAboutGoats
No, no it's not easier. Whatever your argument about taking away my rights is, you lost my respect enough to listen to you over that.
iampete
I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that "but PP does some good, too!" isn't a useful argument. Sigh.
iampete
Still -- Nazis: 6 million deaths -- Communists: 21-70 million deaths -- Abortion in the US: 50 million deaths. All improved someone's life.
ITalkAboutGoats
wow.
MmmCookiePoops
So a mother in poverty should keep a rape child or birth it knowing both her and child WILL die in some cases? You're a hero...
iampete
Everyone is assuming I'm arguing against abortion. I'm not. I'm saying that a specific pro-choice argument doesn't address the issue.
TheStarbuck
Piling on the Appeal to Extremes here...less than half are in poverty, a minuscule amount from rape and even less with mutual death.
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
How is that relevant to this conversation, honestly?
AMartianPotato
I think she's referencing the "closing abortion clinics" line. A lot of people want places like planned parenthood shut down because 1/2
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
Perhaps he should call them something else than "abortion clinics" if they aren't that.
pgdave
The term should be "clinics", and all clinics that provide ob/gyn services should provide abortions.
AMartianPotato
But it's anti abortion people and the media who call planned parenthood locations abortion clinics. They never use that term themselves.
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
Is this not bill Nye's quote? What else is this lying about then
AMartianPotato
they think that abortions are all they do there. In truth abortions make up about 3% of Planned Parenthood visits. 2/2
AMartianPotato
Source: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood_Services.pdf
aromaticfable
Why does no one point out banning abortion in nice, safe clinics with trained professionals will cause women to just "fall down the steps"?
Makecba
I live in a country where abortion is a big no no and this is the biggest argument i have to be pro choice: rich women go to the best 1/
Makecba
Hospitals in the place, get all the best doctors that will perform an abort even if it is banned, while poor women have to relay upon 2/
Makecba
Household methods, and a lot of them (and i mean a lot, like 5000 last year) have serious complications after it. Law is not a tool to 3/
Makecba
Impose your beliefs upon somebody, it is a tool to make society more equal and functional, and safe, affordable abortions are just a way 4/
Makecba
To do that. Women that want to have an abortion will still do it no matter what. If we can prevent them from getting harmed would be great.
GilderoyPopDropNLockart
Or see a dramatic rise in the purchase of wire coat hangers.
shoesoffbootson
Because people already know this, they just don't care. To them, it's a woman murdering a baby, so who cares if she dies doing it?
Xieko
You can now purchase the abortion pill pack online too. It comes as two separate pills
thorkild91
I believe you usually need a prescription for those pills in the U.S. Online without a prescription seems a little bit shady
ValueBear12
Yeah, but the more prescription writing clinics get shutdown, the more people are going to to turn to the shady sites.
TheRighteousWhizbang
People point that out all the time man
nero4ty2
they do, but then they get yelled at and overshadowed by talking heads that influence a lot of the voting public
Robou
Because prohibition actually lowered alcoholism, the majority of people will follow the law. Even when they don't want to.
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
Also, I'd be interested in a source for the prohibition thing because it sounds like a cool thing to read about.
AnneFranklyMyDearIDontGiveADamn
According to WHO and the Guttmacher Institute, restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates.
Taxicat
Because they don't care. They'll just say that she deserved it for being such a whore.
rectalprolapse
People do bring it up but it isn't a good argument. "People are going to do it anyway" does not address issues of ethics, politics, etc.
Makecba
Leave those issues to each person's conscience, not to the fucking law.
guywhoalwaysoneupsyou
And hospitals will have reopen dedicated septic abortion wards that have been closed for decades. Those who don't know history....
bi0v0id
People are going to kill no matter what, so why can't we legalize hit men? I mean there are professionals for a reason
theoshadowfang
Woooow. Of all the bullshit arguements, this one is causing global warming with all the methane.
bi0v0id
It's called a hyperbole. It's an exaggerated situation with similarities to the original argument.
theoshadowfang
Except that the two situations aren't similar
bi0v0id
Except they are. Original argument was that professionals are moral because they are professional, and I pointed out another example.
Fishworshipper
The difference is that fertilized embryos aren't people. When you take away a person's rights in favor of what might be a person's (1/2)
Fishworshipper
rights, you become scum. (2/2)
bi0v0id
I was unaware that thinking unborn babies should be treated as humans made me scum, I apologize.
JaredKidd
It is tragic if a women is in a situation where she chooses Abortion. It's best they have access to proper facilities and healthcare Pros.
TheMightyPotoo
In my country abortion is almost fully illegal. Trust me, you don't want that.
JaredKidd
Totally agree. (I had to shorten my comment cos of character limit and it's slightly unclear)It's better they have acess to Healthcare Pros
CrazyGuyOnABike
Poland?
TheMightyPotoo
Yup
barnwolf
I'm guessing a lot of people aren't that dead set on getting an abortion. Not everyone is hardcore in everything they do.
barnwolf
Given the choice between giving the child up for adoption, and possibly killing myself with a coat hanger, I think I'd go with adoption.
itsbre
Depends on why they're doing it. Don't want to raise it? Adoption. Health problems that could kill you if you give birth? Abortion. Baby 1/
itsbre
2/ with sever health issues? Abortion. Young and terrified to tell her parents? Abortion.
Ashasi
This is far more a question of Philosophy than Science. The real question is: "When does human life begin?" That is much harder to answer.
PatrickSouthern
The tough question is *exactly* when. I reckon science tells us it's definitely fine within, say, the first few weeks.
kanped
Carl Sagan had some pretty good thoughts on that in regard to this topic. http://www.2think.org/abortion.shtml
AngryKoali
What people don't see is how "we" see it. We believe life at conception. So if you have an abortion you're killing a person. Which is - 1/2
Leithoa
Assuming you are Judeo-Christian, that belief is not backed up by scripture or OT Hebrew law.
colinkarr
When did Jesus become incarnate?
AngryKoali
By just standing and watching is just as bad as killing them myself, imo. I'm not rude about it or anything. I just make my views clear
freethelibrarians
It's philosophy informed by science. It's important to use them together.
rykrai
Yes science = information. But philosophy is want makes the decision.
ghasm
Most published papers arguing the philosophy actually ignore the personhood thing because it would ultimately be an arbitrary cut off point.
Foxsayy
I agree. "When is the embryo endowed with 'humaness,'" or when does achieve "personhood"
peskyboner
I believe you're not a person till you pay taxes.
Shadowsmite14
So we can kill children and call it an abortion! WooHoo!
ElectronicGymnast
Oh dear, I'm scared now.
Alcanate
Well fuck, I guess I turned into a person two months ago! Do I get a party?
releasetehgoats
If that party involves taxes and depression, yes.
makemepancakes
Perhaps it could be when it's able to survive out of the mother with out medical intervention. Before that, it's basically an organ, no?
thecolonels
And the scientific method answers: We don't know, seems moot. don't make shitty laws with proven negative effects, asshole.
somepromethean
Proven negative effects for whom? Its been proven that abortion has proven negative effects for the fetus.
Makurai
For the mothers who get botched illegal abortions, and the children who are born to someone who didn't want them.
somepromethean
I agree that safe abortion is an unfortunate necessity in our society, hopefully it will be replaced by contraception. (1/2)
somepromethean
However I'm not going to call someone an asshole for not agreeing with abortion, because they truly believe embryo = human.
Taxicat
More "where's the line between a potential human life and a confirmed one." Up until that baby pops out it's a POTENTIAL life. 1/
Taxicat
There's such a ridiculously long list of things that can go wrong during a pregnancy, completely out of the mother's hands, 2/
Taxicat
that IMHO it remains a "potential human" until it's been confirmed that yes, it's popped out safe and sound. Before that, you could lose 3/
Taxicat
it at any point with no warning and often even no idea WHY. 4/
Dangerdan00
I understand where your coming from but i would take a look at this: http://www.radiolab.org/story/288733-23-weeks-6-days/
artsystuff
No, the real question is; are we willing to accept the fact that people can be a problem just because they exist?
GiantRobotsRule
I think a better question's "does an individual in a free country have the right to make her own determination when life begins n her body?"
PleasantPeasantPheasant
When the brain starts to function. A person isn't declared dead when his heart stops beating either, but when he's brain dead he's dead.
Leithoa
Wrench in the works: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9223408/Miracle-recovery-of-teen-declared-brain-dead-by-four-doctors.html
Leithoa
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2008/03/24/dead_man_revived_four_months_later.html
Majorgrunt
that doesn't mean much either. The brain doesn't just "turn on" in a fetus. Its a gradual process.
foronetoo
I always USED to feel as though it were the heart which made us "alive", until I really thought - as you have - it's the brain. (1/2)
foronetoo
Either way, I believe both the heart and brain begin development during week 5.
spicepoet
Just metencephalon at that point. The point at where if they were an adult they would not be considered vegetative is much later. 1/2
spicepoet
2/2The most basic cerebellum is at around 8 weeks, and isn't capable of any cognition until 3-5 months. Medulla? Diencephalon split? 7weeks.
foronetoo
+1 for the knowledge drop
Sprixxen
Define "brain function". This definition of personhood includes all animals with a functioning brain.
Leithoa
There's an implicit [human] brain function in this definition.
Sprixxen
But how is "human brain function" a quality that somehow implicitly grants rights? If sentience is the key to personhood that includes ->
Leithoa
It doesn't. We're talking about human pregnancy & a way to determine when 'human life' begins in a human pregnancy. Not is PETA right.
Sprixxen
lots of nonhuman animals.
Acornlad
Totally agree. Once that question is answered, we can truly have this debate.
MattCale
How is this not top comment? It's never been a question of science. Science can't make qualitative claims. Science says what things are.
Leithoa
In many, many instances the scientific method can definitely give a qualitative answer. How are you defining qualitative here?
MattCale
Subjective would have been better a better word. Science yields facts. Using facts observers form opinions. Science is not opinionated.
MattCale
Science can say at two weeks an embryo has no brain. An observer might say that this fact means it isn't human. Science doesn't draw meaning
somepromethean
Science more says "this is the prevailing theory on what things might be".
AngryKoali
homocide. If you believe that someone is killing another person, it doesn't matter what other people say. Youre not gonna let someone die...
AthosBrewDude
By that reasoning, every miscarriage is negligent manslaughter. I had no desire to try a woman for a crime who just lost her baby.
AngryKoali
Not every miscarriage is due to parents. Sometimes it's just complications in birth. And if a someone were to cause harm to a pregnant 1/2
somepromethean
No, miscarriages are accidents. Very sad accidents. Why the hell would they be considered manslaughter?
Makurai
Because manslaughter is an accident too?
cacdoodle
You do know that mothers aren't charged for negligent manslaughter when their newborn suffers Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, right?
somepromethean
No, not at all. The important element is negligence. Miscarriages happen from forces beyond the control of the mother.
AngryKoali
And I'm not saying this with any kind of rude connotation. I'm just explaining things the way I see it. Without being rude or yelling
AngryKoali
woman. They would be heavily charged for the wounds to mother AND any birth defects with the child. Including death dye to injury
Leithoa
2)Yet, if the mother no longer desires the fetus, it's a legal medical procedure. That's a big damn double standard.
Leithoa
*In some localities. So in one instance, harm to the mother causing death of the fetus is treated as homicide because the fetus is desired.
FullyGroanAdult
WHY are anti-abortion people also likely to make birth control difficult? I mean, wtf? If you WANT to reduce abortions...
InboxMeYourGermanShepherds
I'm generally pro life , but I'm all for contraceptives.
CatzEyes93
Since when?!! I am a conservative christian and I think Mr. Govmt should give money to pay for birth control rather than abortions.
SonicMonkeys
You should probably pass that message to your elected representatives. At the moment, they're all failing you.
CatzEyes93
Inorite?! Infuriates me to no end.
MasterNameless
I have no clue, I'm largely anti abortion but not anti birth control at all, more birth control for everyone!
theMonkeyTrap
sets a scary example for other young females. Also, if a pct of these babies are abandoned, free slaves to brainwash and further lords word!
tentaclefriendly
It has nothing to do with logic and everything to do with imposing their morality on your life.
Aerolfoz
Strawmen? But yeah they are pro-births.
khora
It's about controlling women.
leastpopularopinion
The original intention of the organization such as pet abuse or civil rights
theshoeminator
Because in their minds, only sluts have abortions and everyone just needs to not be slutty to eliminate the need for abortions. Yay!
leastpopularopinion
These organizations get paid. They might be non profit but the employees still gotta eat yeah bills gotta be paid. Even after accomplishing
rebeccathemeh
Because it is not actually about the fetus, it is about punishing women for having sex.
MidlandRedux
Because, when you press them about the issue, it always comes down to women having sex without risk. The fear of pregnancy has to be there.
IratetheD
I agree i have seen pamphlets basically warning against everything except abstinence. it was ridiculous, if you dont want people to
IratetheD
have abortions and get stds then provide it and stop scaring people into not taking charge of their health.
mycatToastwasafatasshole
They want everyone to adhere to their religious beliefs and abstain. They think taking birth control and abortions away will do that.
thehappyrunner
Most of us don't feel that way. Birth control + responsibility = less abortions.
Bahiano1993
"They're also against gay ppl. Who has less abortions than gay ppl? You think they'd make natural allies!"
Sockpuppetmastermind
Right!! It's like... make up your minds and get more smart!
Soraptors
I'm anti-abortion conservative atheist. Just chiming in, I'd LOVE to see birth control more available if it means less abortion.
NOINOON
EVETY SPERM IS SACREED! I CAN'T HEAR YOU! EVERY SPERM IS GREAT! NANANA!
JPRiddles
If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate!
whathavewehere
"Evety sperm is sacreed." You heard it here first, folks.
Thatisnothowyoucitethings
For prolifers it's not really about protecting life. It's ultimately about controlling women through sex.
NamesAreStupid
Because the same people who advocate against abortion also advocate against BC... Because "abstinence is the holy way" :)
Taxicat
Because it's not really about "saving babies" or even "stopping abortions." It's about punishing people, esp. women, for having sex.
newsguycraigevans
In the US it's just about getting people to vote.
theMemeMage
Im pretty against abortion but I agree that makes no sense at all.
thatpersonontheinternet
Hormonal birth control works in 3 ways : block passage of the sperm, block expulsion of the oocyte from the ovary and block the... 1/?
thatpersonontheinternet
implantation of a fertilized egg in the womb. Extremists think the fertilized egg is a human and that preventing implantation is murder. 2/2
tekcor
Religion. Best way to ensure you get more followers.
percivaldanvers
I think for them all of these issues are an extension of the belief that sex should be for procreation only.
WhoYouGonnaCallGhostNappa
Because catholics
TheAngryMarineBiologist
Because to many it's not about saving children's lives, it's about punishing women for having sex
Nalianna
Why are "pro-life" people carrying guns?
rambosmurf
Why do pro-death people (pro-abortion and pro-euthanasia) care more about protecting unborn sea turtles than they do human life.
ThatLoudGiraffe
Because people are worthless. Majority of us are fucking morons who think god is real. Thankfully that generation will be dead soon.
rambosmurf
And the remaining assholes are brainwashed morons who are blind to what they are doing to themselves and society.
yellowtimer
God wants us to make a million babies is often the argument.
Sniegena
because of side effects, it makes woman unhealthy and crazy, of course for others it helps who have hormonal issues.
colinkarr
beings regardless of age/location? 2
colinkarr
What if the pro-life movement's goal is not to "reduce abortions", but to provide equal protection from being murdered to all human 1
v6sonoma
Many religious groups have strong beliefs around sex. They believe it is for the creation of life and if that isn't your goal... 1/2
v6sonoma
then you shouldn't be having sex. This translates into them not wanting to support acts that go against it like birth control coverage. 2/2
IAmArthurKingOfTheBritains
I am 321658456156464% anti abortion. I also think Birth Control should be given to young girls as soon as they have their first few cycles
sstephens
I'm pro-choice, but I don't agree with tax money subsidizing bc. Not wanting to pay for other peoples' bc is not the same as denying access.
jmeyers1983
You'd rather pay for the pregnancies and child care that they can't afford?
sstephens
I shouldn't have to pay for that, either.
jmeyers1983
I shouldn't have to pay churches' tax burdens, but I do.
Larentiah
Well you don't get both pal. So paying for the BC is cheaper than a whole child. Prenatal care alone is crazy expensive.
[deleted]
[deleted]
BreadyStinellis
It is birth control. It is not an abortion.
[deleted]
[deleted]
BreadyStinellis
Tubes, they usually recommend abortion for those. Basically, if it's not in the uterus, you're not pregnant.
Kaysmira
So it is not an abortion, but it still kills a fertilized egg. They believe the fertilized egg is worth protecting. That's their stance.
BreadyStinellis
Because the egg takes a few days to enter into the uterus. Plan b stops that from happening. Though a pregnancy CAN happen in the fallopian
TheBestSarcasm
You need tons of alive babies if you want dead soldiers and desperate slaves, this is why.
TheBestSarcasm
enlist the help of the religious fundies to help pay lip service and hide behind fake moral outrage, it's been about empires as always.
zeethenomad
Because being anti-birth control is about hating premarital sex. Access to BC means teenagers will fuck. Not giving it will... stop them?
bi0v0id
I am pro life. I also don't want to make birth control impossible to get, I just don't want to have to pay for yours...
jmeyers1983
I don't like shouldering a churches tax burden do to their exempt status. Why should I have to do that?
BreadyStinellis
You're ok paying for Healthcare and food and housing for someone else then? Because that's the alternative.
FuoccoBlue
Not necessarily...
BreadyStinellis
Not in all cases, but the majority.
FuoccoBlue
I'm not even sure about majority. I think it would probably be closer to 30%
bi0v0id
No because I am also not pro universal healthcare, food stamps or govt housing. Libertarian
BreadyStinellis
Right. But you do realize the alternative is people dying in the streets. It's fine if you're OK with that, just so long as you realize that
Larentiah
Yeah except until that passes, you don't have a choice. So pick the lesser of two.
bi0v0id
I don't have to change my views based on what passes. Nazis killed gays and Jews, doesn't mean I agree with killing gays because less deaths
BreadyStinellis
Is what you're saying.
bi0v0id
Not even close... You can afford a 1 bedroom apartment and food on minimum wage and if you have a health emergency 1/
bi0v0id
They don't have more than a minimum wage job waiting for them, then it's not my job to pay for them. They messed up, they need to fix it 3/
bi0v0id
The emergency room cannot turn you away because you don't have healthcare. If someone wants to go out and try to raise a family knowing 2/
bi0v0id
There is something really missing from today's society and it's personal responsibility. 4/4
Baja2185
I'm not aware that any anti abortion person is against birth control. That's not a thing
jmeyers1983
So orthodox religions don't exist anymore? I'll alert the devout Catholics and Mormons that they are hallucinations of mine.
Huathe
Oooh boy. Grew up in a born again christian environment. It 100
Huathe
100% is a thing.
Baja2185
Damn... what denomination is that?
barqshasbyte
Four different types of Protestant churches I've attended all had members who believed this. It's a growing thing. Luth, Bapt, Allia, Method
Huathe
control was the same as supporting premarital sex which was a sin. Anyone not christian was being seduced by the devil regardless of what
Huathe
they believed in. Everything not condoned by the group was basically the devil in some form. 4/4
Huathe
trying to follow it. To make faith your life, not just a part of Sunday Church and it was very much supported that supporting birth 2/
Huathe
It's not really a denomination in of itself, but a concept. There is a huge emphasis on using the bible as the literal word of god and 1/
tetracycloide
If you literally believe that a fertilized egg is a life and ending that life is murder you must also be against birth control 1/2
tetracycloide
Because one of the mechanisms by which many forms of birth control can prevent a pregnacy is stopping a fertilized egg from implanting. 2/2
Nibarlan
If you want government to pay for birth control you give the right to decide what kind. It's no longer your voice, it's everyone's. 1/2
Nibarlan
2/2 This means you potentially give the right to decided over to old fudderdudders who shouldn't be deciding this kind of thing.
FullyGroanAdult
What happened to "by the people for the people"? Your taxes should pay for the services the people want, according to the people's choices.
JackDoodle
Remind me, when was the last time you got a say in highway reconstruction plans? Even a choice of two proposals, no everything gets decided
JackDoodle
By elected, or appointed, officials who are supposedly smarter or more informed than you. Problem is they all quickly realized that there is
Nibarlan
The people voting also include people who are opposed to birth control and what not. Government controlled means your opposition can 1/2
Nibarlan
2/2 have a voice as well potentially control it at some point in the future.
Molvanian
Moderate conservatives, even religious ones like me, DO want contraceptives to be readily available. We just don't get screen time.
Selerox
1) As paradoxical is it might be, moderate conservatives need to start shouting. Not just stating "We don't believe this" but...
ihateusernamesnoidont
Then be louder with your opinion!
jaminjimmyjames
You also don't represent a particularly large voting block. It's the crazy ones that reliably vote in droves.
JackOfSomeTradesAndMasterOfOne
Moderate people, strangely enough, are not the biggest, dumbest loudmouth at every picnic and party. But we all know who is.
InboxMeYourGermanShepherds
Because we're rational and therefore not news worthy to get ratings.
AFineDayForScience
those who yell the loudest do seem to get the most attention. A yuge amount of attention
cptkipard
Start making noise about it. Someone will notice your antics.
Highlights333
I can't upvote this enough
Selerox
2) ... stating clearly that those that DO believe it are wrong and don't represent the ideals of a rational country.
Warumbel
You should make lots of babies you cant afford and then send them off to war to die ! GOD WILLS IT !
pookieeatworld
Being gay reduces abortions! Suck a cock for Jesus!!!
pyronoia
JPRiddles
Sucking cock in general would reduce abortions.
LmSquared
BC their actual goal is to limit female sexual activity whether they admit this to themselves or not. Birth control may increase it.
accipiter
Because many anti-abortion people don't care about the fetus, they care about shaming sex and forcing abstinence.
Burke616
Because the goal is to punish and exert control over the sexuality of women, to enforce a social role as breeders and nurturers.
leastpopularopinion
Because its material. The controversies involved make books, movies, articles, etc. It is like the armor and weapon merchant.italso distract
Sammo21
Why is why those people offered to make birth control available OTC and many dems and Planned Parenthood fought that...
PhonySoprano
I am pro life and pro birth control. The issue I have with it, is it condones unprotected, promiscuous behavior.
Ophilia
Humans are sexual animals, they have sex for fun. Bonobos and Dolphins are two other animals that have sex just for the fun of it.
meepmuup
Just because you don't like a certain behavior doesn't mean you should change everyone around you to be more "proper". We're all different
BreadyStinellis
Why do you care? Also, there are people like me who are married, not fucking other people, and don't want children. Birth control =/= slut.
friendofours
That is your interpretation, it is unfair of you to suggest that others do things for the reasons that you do. Furthermore, if people ARE
friendofours
act promiscuous, those are the people we DON'T want procreating. It's none of your business, especially if they're being responsible w/pill
partialnameispartial
It's never been about protecting life. It's been about punishing women for having sex outside of the rules they set.
ceemars
Agreed. Their goal is to keep women under their thumb at home having babies, not going out into the workforce. Or outside at all, really.
wizardglickwi
Liar.
betterthanfruitcake
You guys know they sell condoms at the store right? Why should the government have to provide everything for you?
khora
Less unwanted children means less crime means better society.
aclarko
If $30 million spent by a government on birth control results in a savings of $60 million in welfare, wouldn't that be a good investment?
BreadyStinellis
Yup! And that's just welfare. The incarceration rates would drop as well.
KroggandMohawk
Religion is a method of control. More sheep means more money for the institution.
YouSnoozeYouRuse
I am anti-abortion and I am for birth control. This post is not an argument as much as a bulstering of likeminded people, and it's 1/2
YouSnoozeYouRuse
2/2 typical to include the stance of rediculous people that can be included in the original group in an attempt to discredit the entireity.
icekraze
At least in the Catholic Church I know you are not supposed to have sex unless you are trying to have children. Therefore strict Catholics
SteelStash
Until recently. Now the Catholic Church views sex as a means of reproduction and as strengthening the bonds of marriage
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
Included in said classes was natural family planning... The fertility method
Koravel34
But this is basically the definition of seperation of church and state. You don't get to tell me what not to do if your only reason for it..
Koravel34
is a religious one. That is literally forcing your religion on someone else, which is expressly forbidden by the first Amendment.
whatseventhepointt
Amendments? Pshaw those are outdated and can totally just be gotten rid of right? No way they still apply now.
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
No, you have to be open to life (I am an atheist who was married in Catholic church and had to take classes on this subject)
LearnedCoward
THIS.
jaminjimmyjames
Even Catholic churches don't agree on this. There are dioceses who do focus on reproduction as a representation of faith.
woodjoiner
"you are not supposed to have sex unless you are trying to have children." Did all of those priests misread this part when molesting boys?
icekraze
Don't use birth control. It is why a "good Catholic family" is always huge(Many Catholics these days do use birth control but frowned upon)
mynameisnotalice
As a German, not over here. I think that holds mainly for 3rd world countries. And there everybody has large families.
icekraze
It is the stance of the Vatican. Know of plenty of US families who don't use it b/c they are Catholic. Not saying I agree
mynameisnotalice
I know, but I know literally no family that is frowned upon because they have only 2 children. On the other hand, half of the Germans (1)
mynameisnotalice
are Catholic, from what I heard in the U.S. it's more like a sect or minority religion. (2)
classicwinger
The majority of Catholics in the Western world use birth control, but they maintain the idea that they're not "supposed" to.
AFelineMassofEyes
In the "Western world"... except the parts with Zika problems, apparently.
mynameisnotalice
Hm, okay. Even my super-conservative Silesian Catholic grand-grandma used birth control. But maybe that's atypical.
degenerator
What about "fuck me up the ass 'cause I love Jesus?" Is that ok?
whatseventhepointt
No because I'm pretty sure the bible is against sodomy as well.
degenerator
Even when done out of respect for jeezus?
Throwaway856
That's a common misconception. "Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure" is right in the Catholic Catechism under 'good of the spouses'1/?
Throwaway856
What they object to is 1) unmarried sex and adultery 2) artificial birth control 3) 'unnatural' sex acts i.e. non-vaginal sex. 2/?
Throwaway856
Sex in general is a benefit of marriage. Birth control via not having sex when you're likely to get pregnant is explicitly permitted. 3/3
icekraze
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control first two paragraphs discuss Vatican stance. This is only Catholics and many don't follow it
scarycookiemonster
What I'm reading from points 2 and 3 is that there's no solution for (married) Catholic couples who want to have sex and not have children.
scarycookiemonster
So, in effect, the Catholic church isn't allowing for the celebration of marital sex for its own sake.
colinkarr
Not necessarily. NFP is more effective than most forms of birth control. But it does require abstinence for certain periods of time.
lobstasalad9095
that's why so many Catholic NFP families have 5+ kids? Because it's so effective?
colinkarr
Idk, maybe they planned it that way? Why do we always have to assume that large families were mistakes?
lobstasalad9095
not mistakes for them, most understand the odds, but the algorithm assumes regularity on the famale part, which is variable
colinkarr
Credentials: I'm a practicing male Catholic and am getting married in the Church
BartimaeusTheFat
Congratulations, mate.
colinkarr
Thank you, I'm getting a ribbon and everything!
WentzofFoles
My best friend also practiced NFP. She is now the proud mommy of 1 month old twins.
colinkarr
Congratulations to your best friend!
aeonicentity
This is a common straw man. Almost no anti-abortion people want to ban birth control (The exception being 'over the counter' abortion drugs)
mynameisnotalice
Because they are sex-negative and believe an unwanted child is the punishment for your lusting.
graehall
You can see even here on imgur people saying that if you have sex you risk pregnancy and if it happens you deserve it that's your punishment
luvas
Yes but it's also that people wish to preserve what they believe are human lives (fetuses). The fallacy here is that said fetus is doomed
luvas
Regardless of whether abortion is legal. So I'd prefer it be done easier rather than put another life in danger. But some will disagree.
bananerbread
~70% of abortions preformed are the result of failed contraceptives.
SirsMadeline
Sex with contraception, even if it fails, is entering into the act saying "no consent to pregnancy. I do not consent to it using my organs"
graehall
Damn, that's an interesting statistic. Have you got sources? When I want to believe a stat, that's when I really want good sources.
bananerbread
Sorry it's actually just over 50%. It's been awhile since I have done research on toys and forgot the stats.
graehall
That's cool, don't apologise. You showed character by correcting yourself rather than doubling down. :)
bananerbread
https://www.guttmacher.org/about/journals/psrh/2002/11/contraceptive-use-among-us-women-having-abortions-2000-2001
graehall
Nice! >10K sample size. Provided their experimental design was solid and there's been some reproduction (heh) of it, that's a SOLID source.
pinecone
More I've seen that people should be aware that no birth control is 100% effective and by having sex one must realize that pregnancy is 1/2
pinecone
possibility. And to plan accordingly. There is no "surprise pregnancies" in the sense that one could not have guessed it might happen 2/3
pinecone
If it's totally out of question that one would have a baby or is unable to get abortion, it must be taken into account when deciding if 3/4
pinecone
sex is reasonable option at that point. If one determines that possible pregnancy risk is low enough compared to the problem caused by a 4/5
FullyGroanAdult
That's kind of like this argument: https://feministphilosophers.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/ban-floaties1.jpg
graehall
Uh huh. There is a negativity surrounding sex for pleasure that permeates discussions of reproductive rights that is just so shitty.
FullyGroanAdult
Because sex for pleasure mean you're a slut who's a danger to the stability of the tribe. So everyone has to feel bad, just to be safe.
graehall
It's so easy to see how giving women control of their reproduction and sexuality with the pill was a big deal culturally hey.
Sintar07
Because we are: A) Not interested in paying for your sex life, and B) Also not interested in you committing murder to cover your sex life.
FuoccoBlue
Well most birth control has negative effects on women's health...
meepmuup
I feel that this is not a good reason to be against birth control. STILL; it's true, there are negative side effects to some contraceptives
PersonWhoBreathes
A lot of things have side effects but this is a poor excuse against birth control
BreadyStinellis
Facts and figures please!
aclarko
Almost every woman I know continues to take birth control regardless of being sexual active. Why? Light/no period.
meepmuup
This probably depends on the contraceptive, the pill for example is hormonal and messes up the body if you don't take it continually
meepmuup
Why is this downvoted? It's true!
FuoccoBlue
I mean it has upsides...like clearing skin for example...but sterility is a pretty significant downside...
meepmuup
Which birth control? It's good to have contraception, but some have negative side effects so they're not necessarily good for you.
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
Because their stance is usually less about wanting to preserve life and most about feeling that women need to be punished for enjoying sex.
DingDongSingAlong
You can't make very persuasive arguments if you don't understand the other side and you clearly don't understand the other side.
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
Have you ever heard of a 'strawman'?
IDriveAMinivan
Ding ding ding. We have a winner!
myduck
couldn't be more wrong.
Syng420
Bingo!
Pencillin
Yes, thank you. It all goes back to a combination of slut-shaming and believing that sex is reserved for marital procreation.
theyar
That's really not true. It's true that many of them feel that premarital/casual sex should be discouraged and that birth control encourages.
Syng420
I might believe they don't want to punish women if they shamed men as much as they shame us for having sex.
cacdoodle
As a strong Catholic man, I hold guys accountable. Probably *way* moreso than women, because I understand their urges and can call them out
thedreamcrusher
This! An unwed woman who gets pregnant is shamed to no end while the father is left alone.
theyar
One reason this debate drags on is the absolute refusal for either side to honestly interpret the other side's position.
Sqrrlslayer
It's probably because one side's mentality is dangerous in terms of creating greater issues that feed into things like poverty.
JackDoodle
No, both sides are equally dumb in how they have this argument.
DingDongSingAlong
Fyi - Not everyone who disagrees with you is a monster.
Blud4BludGod
Just the ones that try to take an opinion born of willful ignorance and force it onto others, despite the fact that it destroys lives.
JackDoodle
So, you in otherwords.
Blud4BludGod
I was trying to say this, and you did so eloquently. When there's such a huge divide between stated motivation and observed action, it's...
Blud4BludGod
...often because the stated motivation is just a justification to push a hateful or selfish agenda. In my experience, anyway.
hechicera84
If we prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place, by having proper sex education and free birth control, we drastically reduce abortion.
aeonicentity
You will never prevent unwanted pregnancy through sex education. This is like saying "if we train people to stop at lights, 0 accidents"
minabear
Did you know that teenage pregnancy goes down as sex education goes up? Amazing, right?
aeonicentity
I'm not saying that's not the case, I'm just saying it's not a solution to pregnancy.
hechicera84
I didn't say ALL unwanted pregnancy. If you teach people how to do things safely you reduce the number of accidents. Common sense.
minabear
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/29/why-is-the-teen-birth-rate-falling/
championofbreakfasts
I'm anti-abortion and am completely fine with contraceptives, including Plan B. The anti-everything strawman is easier to attack.
aqueueforyou
Yeah bro, you're not a legislator. Notice how that works. Regular christians sometimes think, ruling chrisitians think we should stay poor
championofbreakfasts
I'm not a Christian. I'm not religious at all.
uzerok
Maybe it's a strawman, maybe you're not among those who are addressed here.
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
It's definitely a strawman because it doesn't address abortion but rather yells about birth control
FullyGroanAdult
There are plenty of anti-all-population control people, it's not a strawman argument. Good on you for thinking independently
championofbreakfasts
I call it a straw-man because once I state that one opinion people automatically act as though I hold the other ones.
FullyGroanAdult
sadly, an easy mistake to make, due to experience. My #3 kid (the plan was 2) is so amazing, I call him the greatest mistake I ever made
HeyGuysAmIRelevantYet
Will that even fit on a birthday cake?
MintMission
It's nice that you care about unborn children, but I care about women who die in the process of self-inflicted abortions more.
championofbreakfasts
I have a hard time caring for people who die in the process of trying to kill someone else.
MintMission
I would recommend this, it's a good read: http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/10/first-legal-abortionists-tell-their-stories.html
LearnedCoward
The unborn child dies anyway, so the woman just dies for no reason.
PleasantPeasantPheasant
Then you go adopt all those children iif the orphanages and take care of them while barely being able to support yourself asshat.
luvas
Well, I don't agree with you at all, but I can respect where you're coming from. My only "counter" is that if said child is unwanted it's
luvas
likely not going to be carried to term anyhow, so whereas I'd argue to make it easier, again, I can accept that you think otherwise.
MintMission
Quote that will always stay with me, "...he’d seen women die of botched abortions resulting in gas gangrene of the uterus." 1/2
MintMission
"He told me, ‘Anybody who has ever seen a 13-year-old die like that has to support abortion.’" 2/2
pinecone
So given that every pregnancy is potentially lethal to the mother, does that mean you have hard time caring about the fetuses who try to 1/2
pinecone
kill their mothers too? There is no such thing as safe pregnancy. 2/2
championofbreakfasts
You have the potential to die every day. There's a difference between potentially lethal and a credible risk of being lethal
SnailCat
I'm personally anti-abortion, but I wouldn't want to stop anyone else getting one for a valid reason.
LearnedCoward
Same. I'm personally against abortion, but believe laws against it do more harm than good.
championofbreakfasts
Depends on what's meant by valid reason. I'm in favour of abortion in the cases of medical jeopardy or non-viable pregnancies.
SnailCat
Yeah, or if it were the result of rape. Or if the mother were really young... Not just because they couldn't be bothered to use a condom
championofbreakfasts
The implication with allowing in case of rape is that a child should be punished for the crimes of its father, so I am against that.
MintMission
Or the condom failed? On a global scale, birth control fails quite often, so you are forcing people to deal with the effects of bad luck.
jaminjimmyjames
So you think the baby should be a punishment for 2 consenting parters having sex.
ITalkAboutGoats
I respectfully disagree with you.
SirGrumps
Same here. Fertilized eggs aren't really anything, it's messing with a fetus that gets me.
SonicMonkeys
These "strawmen" you speak of as if they don't exist, make up much of Republicans in the courts and congress. You probably voted them in.
MazrimTaim
You're not anti-abortion, you're anti-choice, anti-bodily autonomy, and should your personal beliefs become legislation ... 1/2
MazrimTaim
They would infringe on my sincerely held religious belief that I have the unquestionable right to bodily autonomy.
championofbreakfasts
You do not have autonomy over someone else's body.
MazrimTaim
I can exterminate a parasite feeding off my body.
JackDoodle
Such a shame that "choice" only goes 1 way, everyone always uses it to say the choice is termination never a choice not to. I would be a bit
JackDoodle
More supportive if it was actually presented as a choice with options, instead it is presented as the only "choice" is to terminate.
MazrimTaim
I'm not really sure what you are talking about. I've never suggested abortion was the only option for anyone other than myself.
MazrimTaim
I'm not really sure what you are talking about. I've never suggested abortion was the only option for anyone other than myself.
IamtheGreatQueenSnugglewombs
Do you know that in the 1st trimester, there's a high chance of an involuntarily abortion? It's hard to be against something that's natural
championofbreakfasts
I'm aware of that. Natural death is nobody's fault.
IamtheGreatQueenSnugglewombs
Last part would be in the North Europe part
IamtheGreatQueenSnugglewombs
A lot of women get faulted for that in South America. Also, if the baby has severe chromosome issues, doctors sometimes recommend abortion.
championofbreakfasts
I'm not advocating for the South American system, nor am I advocating forcing non-viable pregnancies to be brought to term.
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
Yes. They also recommended I be killed before I was born. Thankfully my mother wouldn't kill me.
jbacca
Because fundamentalist Christians also believe non-reproductive sex is a sin
tooomanysteves
And thus all religions should be banned and all followers shot. Problem solved.
shmekie
Hooray religion!!! Once again a shining beacon of truth and light. Praise be.
JapaneseStudentTadashii
I'm absolutely sure that most people would go to hell if that were true
cartsbeforehorses
To some, even masturbation is sinful, much less non-procreative sex.
rubbarz
Aka the WBBC kind of people. Not, i guess, "true" christians.
Shadow027
This is Wrong. Sex outside of MARRIAGE is a sin, tho so is doing literally anything that is not for the glorification of the Lord.
popejubal
Sex outside marriage is a sin, but I'd think that failing to wear a condom for that sex should be an additional sin on top of that.
McDolphin
You can't hold hands with God if you masturbate.
LearnedCoward
Well... not *while* you masturbate.
coffeebeforeitscool
But I've got two hands.
LearnedCoward
But I *need* two hands ;)
boogiemanspud
That's just not true. As far as I've ever heard from them any sex with your wife is OK, be if for procreation or just for fun.
cottoncandybingo
Before I got married my husband and I had to take a Catholic Birth control/family planning class. Because they don't believe in BC they
cottoncandybingo
teach you about your body and ovulation so you can have "safe sex" without holding back apart of yourself. Still bullshit though, why risk a
cottoncandybingo
pregnancy you don't want when you can prevent it 99%
myduck
not true.
CatzEyes93
So not true! ugh!
IridescentLotus
Yeah basically babies are a gift from God and any means taken to stop his gifts is blasphemy
unavailableyourcallcantgothruasdialed
Lol I wonder if the Std and aids are gifts too
zeethenomad
This is their biggest issue with birth control. Somehow denying BC will make teenagers not have sex...
thealmightywalrus420
What happened to separation of church and state?
RoelTheDeer
Nothing. Good idea, as always. But religious people can't respect others' way of life. Allowing what they don't like is equal to being (TBC)
RoelTheDeer
An encourager. Because for some reason, if something is allowed then everybody will do it. And if something is sinful... well. (TBC)
RoelTheDeer
You can pretty much call yourself Satan as far as these people are concerned.
demonjester1515
Although I don't think law should be dictated by religion, the only thing the Constitution promises is no establishment of a state religion.
Oirilia
No that's not right. The 1st amendment verbatim says that congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion 1/?
Oirilia
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. While is does say "establishment", the key word here is respect. Yes that does mean 2/?
GilderoyPopDropNLockart
Isn't that more of a Catholic thing?
demonjester1515
Not all Catholics feel this way. It's a very fundamentalist belief.
Schmedes
It's more of a "crazy" thing. Catholics have premarital sex all the time.
LearnedCoward
As a Catholic, no it isn't.
Imthedroidyouwerelookingfor
Uh, yeah it is.
LearnedCoward
Sex isn't purely reproductive, but a couple should always be open to the possibility of life.
Galeus708
Catholics are Christians
DynamikIP
Incorrect. Protestants are Christians. Catholics do a lot of things not in the bible.
Tourine17
But not all Christians are Catholics.
GilderoyPopDropNLockart
I realize that, but normally Catholics aren't labeled as fundy's. That's usually the hardcore Protestant groups.
thorkild91
Not all of them are as bad as evangelicals
thorkild91
Eeeehhhhh. Evangelical protestantism and some baptist groups. Just to clarify. As an Irish catholic I like to shit in Protestants, but
WhoStoleMySweetroll
When I was in high school, my Catholic priest told me to just wear a condom and he'd forgive me every time.
WhoStoleMySweetroll
Phrasing. He would provide me reconciliation for the condom sex with a girl.
GilderoyPopDropNLockart
Haha well that's awful good of him
BartimaeusTheFat
Well then your priest was breaking a few rules.
DrJDX
Then he sounds like he might actually make a change.
humblebagel
Churched my whole life. Still am. Never heard of that, just premarital sex.
bmthrp
It's real big in the Catholic mythos as well as whatever the hell the Duggers come from.
TechnicallyRight
Catholics
TotallyNotTheCIA
Can confirm GF is catholic. You can't do anything to try and prevent pregnancy with sex. Even a vasectomy is considered inherently evil.
GodSiege
I wonder what they think about sterile people. "Oh, lucky you. Go ahead and fuck all you want."
SirGrumps
That must be ridiculously fundamentalist. It's just sex before marriage that most Christians consider a sin.
bmthrp
Catholics consider using any type of "no baby" stuff as a sin. There's a handful of other "Christian" religions that do too. Namely whatever
bmthrp
the clown-car vagina Duggars are.
Sockpuppetmastermind
Sad so sad
ThePotatoBandit
Which made sense when we had trouble maintaining a population, but it doesn't now. Why is that so hard to see?
blink182walkingonthebeach
because people are stubborn and stupid
leechdemon
Because someone wrote it in a book 4000 years ago, and we've chosen not to amend THAT arcane rule. Eating pork, however... God was mistaken.
rectalprolapse
Tell me where the Bible says that sex is solely for procreation and all other forms of sex are sin.
viking15
There is a whole book that is basically erotica.
ToxicSquid
That book is picked apart for things to follow and ignore. Does any devout christian NOT mix fabrics and avoid pork? Yet here they are 1/2
ToxicSquid
2/2 persecuting homosexuals and abortion because that same book says it's bad. *sigh* Maybe someday people will learn
viking15
Jesus said that was cool though
RIPSlurmsMckenzie
Jesus had a thing for BLTs
rectalprolapse
I encourage everyone reading these comments to research Levitical laws and who is to follow them. Link in my reply to this comment:
rectalprolapse
Or, down vote me in your ignorance and refuse to educate yourselves on something you claim to know more about than millions of people.
rectalprolapse
http://crossexamined.org/cherry-picking-the-bible-are-christians-expected-to-follow-the-levitical-laws/
bmthrp
Only in a country where we fought to get away from the stranglehold of "fuck and have 90 babies" the catholic church can we go from that to
bmthrp
"FUCK AND HAVE ALL THE BABIES!" and somehow be more in the dark ages as country progressively than the small as a fart country we ran away
bmthrp
from. I think I got that thought across correctly. I want to know how we could flee England to get away from religion only to become super
bmthrp
puritanical and make Catholics/the UK/most of civilized look like swinging pagans. This country couldn't be more ham fisted and puritanical
FauxFargoth
Because it was the Puritans who fled England in the first place, and it was in their colonies that our gov. formed.
soundguyg
honestly, as a society, who gives a fuck what the fundamentalist christians believe?
dbrsong
Catholics, that's who you meant.
ArchDracon
For Catholics sex isn't just about reproduction but the couple should be open to the possibility of life.
bmthrp
Ehhh, fundamentalist christians too. there's a few others.
Overlawd
"Because fundamentalist religions" fixed that for you. The issue here isn't one specific group, it's religion being mixed with 1/2
Overlawd
our government. People don't understand that the two have to be separate, because we DON'T ALL BELIEVE THE SAME THING!
Taxicat
They don't realize that separation protects both gov. AND religion, either. If religion becomes "official" then the gov. can start 1/
Taxicat
restricting what they're allowed to preach, who they're allowed to let into their churches, etc. 2/
bmthrp
YAY JESUS-MYTH! I'm all for believing in the myth if it gives you hope, but when it turns you into a moron who might as well be eating lead
bmthrp
paint chips because you're that stupid - Religion then is probably one of the worst things to happen to the world.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
Norway was one of the first to do that, hopefully churches will have to pay taxes soon instead of wasting money and land on the government.
Overlawd
Agreed. I'm all for Church, and religious beliefs. But in an equal and fair place. If I as an individual pay taxes, A group of like minded
JackDoodle
Hey dumb dumb, all non-profits are exempt from taxes in the US, if your gonna start taxing one you better tax all of them.
Overlawd
people can too. Regardless of their chosen deity.