NeoDesperado
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Some of you may have seen this already
If you haven't, let's quickly get you up to date:
A few days ago, YouTube reviewer James Rolfe, aka Angry Video Game Nerd, posted a video explaining that he had decided not to see or review the new Ghostbusters film when it comes out. AVGN has done reviews of bad movies in the past, but in this instance, he presented several reasons why he would skip this particular film, noting that based on what he had seen thus far he didn't see any driving need to waste money on something that wasn't going to live up to his love of the original 1984 movie.
For just about any other upcoming theatrical release, it probably would have raised a few confused eyebrows and evoked responses of, 'Okay? Great on you, buddy.' If he had declared a non-review of, say, TMNT: Out of the Shadows, few outside of his fandom would have taken note.
Of course, you know full well what happened next because this is Ghostbusters.
The internet was quick to take note
The upload evoked an immediate response from various news outlets and blogs. Some satisfied themselves with chuckling about the irony of an online reviewer declaring that he wasn't going to do his job. Brad Jones (Cinema Snob) and the Observer's Vinnie Mancuso both uploaded their own videos parodying Rolfe and claimed that they too were refraining from reviewing things they didn't like.
Others decided that AVGN's declaration obviously placed Rolfe squarely in the misogynistic movie protester faction and published rebuttals thoroughly explaining why he was a sexist man-child for doing this.
All aboard the hate train!
Translation:
"Hahaha, hey everyone, get a load of this dork! I'll bet he has to pay women money to hang out with him so he can pretend he's not a virgin!"
Nice to see the professionals keeping it classy.
Patton Oswalt ventures into the fray
Before too long, comedian Patton Oswalt tweeted his response to Rolfe. It was a bit callous and personal, but to his credit he did post a followup tweet explaining that he enjoyed Rolfe's Cinemassacre reviews and was just poking fun at the whole 'reviewer not reviewing' issue.
AVGN fans counterattack
Right about this time, supporters of AVGN fired back at Oswalt. And to no one's surprise, a lot of them went straight for the topic of his wife Michelle McNamara's recent death.
A quick personal aside:
First off, fuck you. That shit is completely uncalled for and inexcusable. Have some modicum of goddamn respect.
Second, seriously? Out of all the things you could have gone with the only rebuttal you had was 'lol dead wife'? Don't give me a counter-argument that you only spent 1.5 seconds on Google preparing.
Sorry, had to get that out. Anyway, for obvious reasons the previous commentators seized on this as further proof that Rolfe and his followers were part of the ongoing male-led campaign to slander and bring down Ghostbusters and posted response articles and tweets. The majority were about as civil and unbiased as one would expect at this stage.
We have chosen this battleground, and here we shall fight
The AVGN drama is only part of a much larger problem.
At one extreme end of the Ghostbusters response spectrum, we have the rabid haters, the trolls, the sexist assholes who don't want to see Ghostbusters With Boobs and will do everything in their internet power to see it gloriously bomb in flames.
At the other extreme we have the hardcore supporters, white knights and SJWs who are committed to seeing this movie become a box-office smash success and instant classic.
Both extremes are very motivated and *very* vocal about where they stand.
The problem is, that's not the whole picture
As you've no doubt already realized, there are a whole lot of us that fall outside of these extreme camps. Some of us are sick and tired of remakes and reboots trying to milk our nostalgia, some feel that the gender-swapped premise is a bit too gimmicky and trying too hard, others have expressed reservations based on the trailers and feel that the jokes and effects are sub-par compared to the 1984 original.
But that's not kosher with these extreme factions. The haters camp has made it quite clear that they don't approve of a chick trying to fill Venkman's jumpsuit, resulting in the supporters camp doubling down on their defense of the reboot and classifying anyone who doesn't toe to their party line as simply more of the sexist hater trolls. Both sides are firmly entrenched, but in the process they've written off a lot of people in the no-man's land wandering around and getting caught in the crossfire. There is no grey zone here for them; it's all or nothing.
Neither side will back down
The question is, at what point is the battle over? For the supporters, this movie HAS to succeed, or in their eyes the sexist/racist hordes have won. All of the cool kids have hitched their star to this bandwagon, and if they waver at all in their support, isn't that just admitting to themselves that they backed a lame horse? If Ghostbusters flops in theaters and gets scathing critical reviews, is the protest campaign to blame for the failure? Conversely, if it's a critical darling and makes money hand over foot, will the haters attribute it to a vast SJW conspiracy forcing everyone to pretend to love it?
Neither faction can afford to back down from their respective positions in the slightest, and you know that it's only going to get worse.
Allow me to let you in on a secret
It turns out that despite what the extremes are telling you, there is indeed a grey zone.
And it's pretty damn big.
Here's the thing: at the end of the day, it's a movie. Nothing more, nothing less. Despite what the haters may announce, Ghostbusters 2016 will not be the end of all things, nor will it be the shining pillar of feminism that casts misogyny into the darkness as the supporters believe.
In all likelihood, it'll come and go as a brief blip on our cultural radar, rather like Y2K. Something that got a lot of people anxious and up in arms at the time, only to be lost and vaguely remembered among the other momentary crises in the grand stream of history.
And I don't know about you, but personally that's unbelievably worrisome given how vicious and personal the attacks have gotten from both sides over this thing.
Where do you and I stand in all this?
We all like different things, and that's okay. And it's okay to be part of the grey zone. Not being on board with the reboot or wanting to wait for reviews and feedback before splurging on a Friday night movie ticket doesn't make you a sexist pig.
Say it with me: It's okay to not like Ghostbusters.
No one is forcing you on how to spend your money, and pay no mind to pretentious morons who think they have that right. If you like what you see, go check it out. If you don't like what they're peddling, go right ahead and see something else. There's nothing wrong with taking the extra time to do your own research and make an informed opinion.
The movie itself can go any number of ways
Farming childhood nostalgia is big business, but like most things it can lead to mixed results. You might end up with a beloved reboot that everyone quotes endlessly, or an utterly forgettable piece of half-baked garbage that disappears from our cultural attention as soon as it arrives. Some movies deceive us with well-cut trailers and earn our eternal displeasure, others pleasantly surprise us with a fresh and invigorating take on well-known and covered material.
In short, who knows? Some people, like James Rolfe, have already made up their mind about how it'll turn out. And there's nothing wrong with that in the slightest, because it's their money and they can spend it on whatever they choose.
In conclusion, make Mister Rogers proud
It's no doubt going to get even more intense in the weeks leading up to the release. Throughout it all, I encourage you to *politely* do whatever the fuck you want. Don't be petty and vicious if a supporter explains at length why you're a nun-beater if you hit the dislike button on the Ghostbusters trailer. Keep it civil and professional, and don't sink to their level of social shaming for not blindly following something you have doubts about. On that same note, don't let someone try to shame you for wanting to stand in line and buy a ticket. You're not a frothing misandrist for being curious and catching a screening on opening night.
We are the grey zone; you do you!
Banlish
" Some of us are sick and tired of remakes and reboots trying to milk our nostalgia" That right there sums up the last DECADE of reboots.
DonaldKeybals
I'm going to have to quote Harrison Ford here:" Who gives a shit"
Chefreign
The cast could be great. But based on the trailer, the writing looks like it's may be hot garbage. +1 for make Mr. Rogers proud.
jsktrogdor
People labeled me a sexist for not liking Rey's character development. Nevermind that development is written by men. People are retarded.
faedother
As Morbo, from Futurama said, "A thoughtful and lucid answer. YOU WILL BE DESTROYED!" +1
TheActualMalloryArcher
Eh I don't want to see the new Ghostbusters movie and I'm a feminist. It has nothing to do with women or anything. It just doesn't look good
AJWILLIKERS
I think people forgot how liking stuff works. Your liking or not liking something has no bearing on my enjoyment. So much hubris.
MisfitToy
*SPOILER* It is one of the worst movies ever made.
HibiscuitsTea
Im gonna see it cause I like the ladies in it and I like Ghostbusters. I think ppl are taking this way too seriously.
RobertLoewen
The comment section is full of rage, personally I think i'll give it a pass unless a few friends say it's good.
VonSnootingham
Both sides need to calm the hell down. I can't imagine feeling THIS strongly about such a silly thing that I need to threaten people. 1/2
VonSnootingham
My other problem is people judging it before seeing it. Will it be bad? Most probably. But I'll wait to see it before calling it. 2/2
WhySoCereals
I back AVGN.
MightyNorseman
I think most of us do. His fans on twitter though.. fuck those guys.
Vixok
I refuse to go cause I'd rather easily for sausage party
IAmDrBanner
Which looks great. Did you see the trailer for Neighbors 2?
Vixok
God yes!
FiveDollars
Further proof that journalism is a coordinated, unified enterprise, not an organic attempt at news. Hello JournOList.
Ireallydonthaveanyideawhattonamemyself
Unified? Its just plagiarism. Everyone has to tell the same story or the competition gets ahead.
maxpower515
I stopped reading after the fifth time you wrote AGVN instead of AVGN.
JustFeedMePieDammit
Can't unsee now, can't believe I didn't pick that up.
walterpeck
He's the Angry Gaming Video Nerd!
Antropomorphia
And it has nothing to do with the cast. The jokes are bad, the acting is bad, the cgi is bad, its just all bad.
NicCagesDickRages
The effects in the original were better what the fuck
CoachFeratu
Well done practical effects > Shitty CGI. Nothing new.
choreboy
That's low to fuck with Patton that way. Totally uncalled for.
geiokami
I'm not sexist but I find it slightly sexist to reboot a movie that was all male and replace it with all female, I'd feel the same if it 1/2
geiokami
The golden girls rebooted with men instead, it's just not right. That's not what it was originally intended as.
Antropomorphia
This is why i avoid social media. Fucking cry babies everywhere. James gets ripped apart because hes boycotting a movie that looks horrible.
NuclearBoxcutter
I doubt it'll get him down. He's been doing this a looong time.
WhitePhoenix
No, it's MOST people saying "it sucks because it's bad", but a small vocal minority of JOURNALISTS calling people like AVGN virgin dorks 1/2
WhitePhoenix
The sexist or whatever camp is VERY small and they don't have the bully pulpit of "news" organizations like "journalists" do 2/2
MyLuggageAteMyHomework
I really don't care for AVGN myself, but it's his channel, he can review/not review what he likes. He was probably getting tons of requests
MyLuggageAteMyHomework
(2) for the new GB movie and made the video as one response to all of them instead of having to explain later why he ignored the requests/
xilstudio
What if it just looks like a poorly written and made movie and has nothing to do with the cast?
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
I honestly think the reason they packed it with so many well liked actresses is to cover for the lazy writing and general lack of creativity
Yokuho
Can't take anyone who says bad stuff about James seriously. Dude works hard and is passionate.
ThisIsNotCheddar
James could burn down an orphanage and I'd still love the guy.
turbofart
Yeah, he's really innocent and passionate about movies. I think he was really shocked from all this.
RunsWithShortShorts
Going after Oswalt's wife? That's fucking low, what a bunch of pussies.
MyLuggageAteMyHomework
I'm honestly surprised the man's able to crack a joke at all in the circumstances, I'd be destroyed if I lost my spouse. And it's not like
muhvitus
Bullies, they aim anywhere to get a reaction. Sick fuckers.
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
This made my blood boil. That's some low down, scum of the earth kinda bullshit. I couldn't care less about the movie one way or another....
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
... but going after the man's wife was fucked up beyond belief. You don't do that.
MyLuggageAteMyHomework
(2) he was being an outright dick, since he followed up praising AVGN. Good on him.
imoutofnames
Saw the trailer. 1) Overall the movie looks lame and not in the spirit of what ghost busters was. 2) I liked the blonde and red head(1/2)
imoutofnames
From the trailer I think they could do a good job. The movie just looks bad. The other two were just painfully unfunny. (2/2)
imoutofnames
tl;dr movie looks bad and 1/2 of the main cast didn't work for me.
Ireallydonthaveanyideawhattonamemyself
Why are you writing a tl;dr for 2 140 character comments..
IAmDrBanner
The stereotypical big loud black woman character is cringy.
SpeedyCheese
Probably never going to see this movie, but using someone's recently dead wife as ammo against them? Christ. Some people are living garbage.
ParaMachina
*Superly recent.
badaccount
It's rough. But it's not like this isn't just all completely retarded and he didn't just ask for it.
CorvusBelli
Actually, it's exactly like he didn't just ask for it; nothing he said warranted "lol your wife's dead" as a response. Not even close.
myusernameisnotcreative
The restraint to not post those dirtbags Twitter handles is something to be admired.
cumbustable
welcome to the internet
CBJIMW8
I agree. Oswalt stopped being remotely funny to me a long time ago. But his wife as a target? Very poor, even for the net!
Antropomorphia
Its pathetic. I used to get riled up about shit like that but nowadays i expect it. Its far too easy for the idiots to be heard nowadays.
StevesDick
That last sentence is everything
aPrideofLions
"It's far too easy for the idiots to be heard nowadays"- Antropomorphia 2016
ralphwiggles
That was pretty low, but what Patton said wasn't funny at all. Then he tried to cover it up as a joke
glassweaver
Haven't watched the video (didn't even know they were rebooting Ghostbusters) but...his personal opinion about a piece of art is low? What?
mikeatike
Do op thinks AVGN is a cunt because some of his fans are cunts?
SherLance
I really enjoy AVGN and James's work but the comments on Oswalt's wife made me sick. Bringing her into it over a movie discussion is low AF
mikeatike
Of course it is. I am giving Oswalt a fee pass on this as he just lost his wife. (and he did say he was joking)
mikeatike
*free pass. Anyhow, blaming James for shit other people say is also out of line.
SherLance
Tryy
mikeatike
Try harder :)
SherLance
Truu*
otakudan
some of his fans are the cunts. If you watch the video, he is fairly calm and gives good reason why he will not watch it.
mikeatike
Oh I know that. I was surprised this became do controversial.
otakudan
It seems that it became controversial for the sake of free promotion for the movie.
otakudan
but at the same time, I feel that his video was unnecessary and he could have just made a few Twitter posts instead.
mikeatike
His follow up video on what happened to GB3 was fantastic, and explains what went wrong.
TheGreatAku
I've managed to keep my judgment civil so far. The reason I don't like Ghostbusters is because it's another remake no one asked for.
graehall
As a kid who spent an hour waiting for the game to load on tape on a C64, I'll see it because new ghostbusters! It will probably be average.
HereInDuckburg
that being said I think it's kind of unprofessional when you're in the business of reviewing movies not to review one just because you
EvenStevensEvenSemen
Something I'm legitimately curious about is why this is getting so much flak as opposed to Robocop (2014), which was just entirely ignored.
Camelspotting
Because the original robocop wasn't a particularly good movie. Sure it's entertaining but it's not the one in a million Ghostbusters is.
EvenStevensEvenSemen
You obviously are a classless troglodyte for having such a myopic opinion
FelixG
Robocop 2014 had its backlash, but what it didn't have was news media and the creators attacking the people who didn't like it, which in 1/2
FelixG
2/2 turn caused more people to lash out against the movie/creators in defense of other fans and themselves.
TheGreatAku
The backlash for RoboCop wasn't dismissed as misogyny and crybaby nerds just whining. Paul Feig and other execs crossed the line here.
EvenStevensEvenSemen
good point, Aku. You know, you're not so bad as the legends claim
TheGreatAku
No, I am. I just really like my 80's cult films.
HereInDuckburg
2/2 don't think you'll like it
MyLuggageAteMyHomework
The way I see it is that he was probably getting tons of requests to review it and at some point he'd be expected to explain why he ignored
MyLuggageAteMyHomework
(2) those requests. Maybe he just found it easier to get it out now than be thrown under scrutiny later. But that's just my take on it.
LeCacty
I'm sorry but literally nobody is angry about ghostbusters because theyre fucking sexist. It simply looks like a shitty fucking movie.
aegeryn
Not even remotely true. There were MRAs throwing shitfits long before any details came out about the movie except "women as Ghostbusters."
StatisticallyInsignificantCanadian
I sat through bridesmaids. It wasn't terrible... but this looks campy and forced as hell. Apparently that makes me sexist.
BurlRavenscroft
Oh there are plenty of people. They might have formulated better arguments over the last year, but they exist.
Allrighty
Yeah, a lot of them know how to be subtle about it now. Then again, a lot of them also don't.
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
There are plenty of people who dislike it for non-sexist reasons (like me) and plenty who dislike it for sexist ones.
IAmThePermabannedAccountOfMyNameIsMrTorgue
Counterpoint: Anytime you call someone out on saying something racist, they insist they aren't racist. Imgur has been full of sexist-hate
IAmThePermabannedAccountOfMyNameIsMrTorgue
Tons of "stereotypical AW HELL NAH black woman" comments, and "Those women just aren't funny" when talking about objectively funny ladies.
barotrauma
I don't like a ton of comedians people seem to like, what some people think is funny others don't, trust me its not because they are women.
jontaylor07
Male sexists would love movies with more boobs. But some people won't see a shitty movie just because 'feminism' which is the new sexism.
WhitePhoenix
That's why this post is stupid. It equivocates a tiny minority of assholes online to journalists who are supposed to be doing their jobs.
LeCacty
You... I like you. A lot.
WhitePhoenix
You could say I'd like journalists to be ETHICAL but I'd be called a shitlord for it.
Meowsma
Shitty sequels and reboots happen all the time. The level and severity of rancor for this one suggests something more at play, if subtly so.
jontaylor07
This one is aggressively bad, and they're selling it purely on gender. 'If you don't like it, you're misogynist.'
jontaylor07
Which of course then means that it's a discussion. You can't just not see it, you have to take a stance. All PR BS.
creamiestGreen
Looks absolutely awful and is filled with shit actors
SigPistols
Hey, Kate McKinnon is a gem!
jakethepuma14
Yeah, for me it's not that I don't think women are funny, just not THOSE women. It's like an SNL parody sketch.
Ringshadow
They threatened to sue Bill Murray if he didn't make a cameo. I have no interest in giving money to people who do that.
WKBetafiggit
On what basis would they sue?
Ringshadow
Damn good question. Googling seems to indicate everyone wondered the same thing, but leaked emails indicate it was discussed...
Chefreign
It's 2016. You dislike Obama's policies because you're racist, and you hate Ghostbusters with boobs because you're sexist, cis scum.
CliveBarkersMysteryHole
The existence of one does not negate the existence of the other.
DAMSK1PPY
Honestly who cares!! It's a fucking movie!! There's other shit I'd rather waste my time on!! Like imgur lol
Theycallmekoke
Why isn't this the top comment?
popculturella
It's been proven over and over that Sony is deleting comments left by men and women alike that express legitimate criticisms ranging from1/2
popculturella
the unimpressive SFX, to the flat and unfunny jokes, to the fact that it's so reliant on awkward and/or slapsticky humor at all when the 2/?
popculturella
original was a pretty decent blend of horror and comedy; subtle and deadpan comedy, at that, and only leaving the cartoonishly sexist 3/?
popculturella
comments so they can go "Look! Only woman-hating basement-dwellers don't like this movie!" It's complete and utter bullshit.
Lacuna73
Ive yet to see any genuinely sexist comments from people bashing the film, conversely Ive seen an abundance of sexist comments directed (1
Bralef
I'm the other way around. I've seen more people complaining about people calling those who don't want to see it sexist than I have 1/2
Bralef
2/2 people actually calling those who don't want to see it sexist. That was a mouthful, but yeah. Apparently both kinds of people DO exist?
aselfdefeatingattitude
Must be nice to not read youtube comments, twitter, facebook...
optisomnia
just about as credible as 4chan
Lacuna73
at people with valid criticisms of it (2
CanadianMooseRider
nah no such thing as sexism against males* (sarcastica font)
KGBinUSA
I'm not going to see the movie purely because it will be shit...
Ringshadow
Yeah. Even the cast isn't promoing it, for god's sake. That's a sign.
fangwulf
How awesome is it to be psychic? Quick, what am I thinking?
AcadianBacon
Agreed. A bad movie is bad, trying to paint it in a specific light simply won't detract from that basic fact.
BubblesSayingDecent
It looks terrible for an original film never mind a reboot of a beloved film.
Otterbotanical
I'm not a die-hard fan of the original, since the first time I watched it I was 16, and after my friends waaay over-hyped it [1/2]
Otterbotanical
I liked the original, don't get me wrong, but I just watched the trailer and I have to say, it looks pretty good. I know I'm gonna go see it
Iamlordofspuds
SAME
playthatrecordbackwards
Do you ever read something like this where people are going apeshit about a movie and think, Jesus Christ, these people need more to do
SolveTheCipher
I agree with you
wolfpreist
the orginal ghostbuster's was funny because they didnt act like they were in a comedy,IE the exact opposite of what this appears to be doing
Fahargo
The original ghost busters wasn't much of a comedy. It was funny yes but i wouldn't even classify it as a comedy. It looks like they are 1/2
Fahargo
going full blown stupid comedy on this latest ghost busters. Could it be funny? probably. Will it still be crap even if it's funny? yeah
NipplesTheEnchiIada
That's what sells these days though, is full blown stupid comedy. If David Zucker and Leslie Nielson made a new comedy movie in the 1/2
NipplesTheEnchiIada
style that they did back in the 80's and 90's it would be torn apart y critics and not be very successful. Course the rest of us would see
shoutuckerfatheroftheyear
1) the movie is going to be bad. 2) not because it is women 3) why do kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch? I just cant see it.
TheDeckhand
It's the cocaine
StrangePoster
The one preview I saw made the writing seem god awful. There was dry wit in the originals and the previews for this beats you over the head.
IAmDrBanner
That is essentially what that youtuber said. Poor dude.
Hulkhulkthehulkinghulk
His yt channel exploded with views from both sides, and subs from one, so I doubt he's that devastated
AcadianBacon
James Rolfe has always been really popular, all this is doing is giving him more views and subscribers. Good for him!
IAmDrBanner
I am sure it wasn't devastating for his channel, but nobody likes getting shit on by strangers.
Hulkhulkthehulkinghulk
Oh yeah that's definitely true but I think it's a bit of a "wiping his tears with 50$ bills" scenario
tantricpooper
I wonder if you'd feel that way if there was no original to compare it to. I think that's the whole argument here.
almostsomething182
I probably would. Ghostbusters didn't play much of a part in my life, not even sure I've seen the whole movie. New one looks... awful.
almostsomething182
Plain and simple, awful. Not compared to anything, just turrible.
tantricpooper
I'm willing to give almost any movie a fair shot. I refused to watch the new Point Break. At least them being female gave it a twist.
WordsAreHardToThinkOf
I like to believe every movie is good until proven otherwise. Trailers are bad, but some great movies have terrible trailers.
Jhecht
what movie are you thinking of that ended up being good with a bad trailer?
WordsAreHardToThinkOf
First that comes to mind is John Carter. I remember Cabin in the Woods' trailer made it look like it was a serious horror film, so that too.
akodorokku
Dude, John Carter is a *great* movie. High five.