mungtongue
299083
8083
568
Jan 27, 2017 8:05 AM
mungtongue
299083
8083
568
Mbears
I don't mind my taxes going to the poor, I just can't stand a horrible bureaucratic administration that controls the tax disbursement.
YourThoughtsOnTransgenderIssuesAreReallyReallyImportantToMe
Not the best President, but the best person who was ever President.
Vaanhalen
I agree with you exactly half.
tlilsmash
I'm not Christian, and my tax dollars should not be going to poor, only because the government is woefully inefficient
moose9377
The government is inefficient? Yeah let's let the private sector handle it with no regulations and see where the money goes.
jayar1st
There's a big difference between charity, and government mandated forced charity. You don't get morality points for forcing others to help.
Attaroo
You do for willingly sacrificing to help others, and if that's through govt programs, that's fine. Matthew 6:3-4.
jayar1st
Agreed. But the people who think charity and higher taxes are the same thing are delusional.
IAlwaysUpvoteMinnesotaThings
According to snopes.com this unfortunately isn't something he said. http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/carterpoor.asp
Jyx123
Take my upvote you gorram bastard
bvtthole
Snopes is slowly making us all less ignorant.
samsonguy920
Yeah, but who is this Charles Snopes? I've never met the guy.
braaaiiiiinnnnsss
Thank you, always good to know the truth.
pdxenburg
Fair enough, but still a valid point, regardless of who said it
TonyBalogna
http://imgur.com/HOZQjc0
ryanegt
Ugh fine. To the top with you.
Discoduck
Uh but now they will dismiss the message entirely. And of course this will be the one time they don't say "snopes.com is bull, google it"
OfficialAntarctica
Who said it might not be true, but the words themselves are true.
BlackHartMTB
How come when I read it, I read it with his voice? Hmmm? explain that snopes!
JetSetGo
While what was said is true, it's good to know the truth about who said it. To the top with you, and
RetroVicar
Alternative facts
terrificent
That's actually good because this is a straw man argument.
Piornet
Awww :(
1819161317
Yeah! can't we go back to worshiping Cthulhu and eating the weak like the founding fathers intended
tekkblade
Carter is basically the benchmark of landslide rejection election. His policies and handling of politics were so bad CA and NY went red.
RainInTheFace
Carter was, without a doubt, the worst /politician/ of the US Presidents. At the time, America needed someone that they liked and could lead
tekkblade
I wasn't alive during his term so I'm stuck relying on history books and words of older friends and family, but I've never know anyone 1/
tekkblade
that was objective in their approval of him.
TroutYabo
I'm ok supporting the poor. I'm against supporting the lazy.
NormlCouple
Respect +1
posthuman001
Pretty much never trust a quote over an image. They are usually never accurate about the source of the quote.
BDoc
What if i want to help the needy on my own without the government taking from me by force and redistributing it without my consent?
Kittybitters
Tax dollars should help the poor. Not everyone poor is lazy. People born disabled collect SSI, they barely get enough to live on.
Seanspeed
The people that dont know/believe this(Republicans) are the ones who aren't going to listen, sadly.
youareprobablyanidiot
The child recipients can also grow up to be taxpayers. (I'm one of them) Was also an Army sergeant.
Solivoid
Let's say it like this, to make it none-hostile no matter what: Tax dollars, should help all citizens. That's what we expect of society.
eclect0
The average welfare recipient gets $9K/year. The average prisoner costs $32K. Would you rather pay for the poor to be "lazy" or desperate?
TheDeanofLean
Wtf
RunningBackwardsThroughACornFieldNaked
I work and i barely get enough to live on...
CantThinkOfACleverNameFML
As a social worker, can confirm.
JamesMercer
The idea that poor = lazy is actually killing your country. It is literally the reason that Trump had the success he djd
DumpoldRant
The ironic part is that a lot of Trumpets against welfare have been on it. I don't need it now so no one deserves it anymore.
pdxenburg
And drug addicts. He won all the states with the highest cases of prescription drug abuse
thecheesedip
Being that the (Snopes confirmed false) quote is in reference to foreign aid, I will agree with your sentiment while adding that it is (1/2)
thecheesedip
currently impossible to achieve with foreign aid. Foreign aid is near 100% misunderstood, and functionally useless.. Even counter-productive
maximuminnovationstevejobs
And besides this, it's worth thinking about if someone should have shit quality of life because they made poor decisions.
szepasszony
Most people on welfare work, but their employer pays them a wage that is so low they can't live on it.
msu14hockey
Wasn't McDonald's teaching employees how to get welfare/Medicaid? And Walmart employees are the single largest group of welfare recipients?
szepasszony
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/23/news/companies/mcdonalds-help-line-workers/
szepasszony
1McDonalds has Walmart beat for the biggest # on welfare (source above), but I believe Walmart has the largest % of employees on welfare,
szepasszony
Yes, their 'McResource' helpline would coach employees on how to get things like food stamps and other welfare aid (source above)
szepasszony
Yes, Walmart leads for number of employees on welfare (source above). A store in OK also had a charity food drive for their own employees.
szepasszony
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-11-13/how-mcdonald-s-and-wal-mart-became-welfare-queens
szepasszony
Even if the billions in low-wage subsidies are ignored, we spend more on corporate welfare than welfare to help the poor (source below)
szepasszony
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/
szepasszony
This is a fairly old source-but CATO institute reports show it hasn't changed enough to make this no longer the case.
jwside
The system is fucked though. Half the people on government assistance are playing the system while there are people with legit problems...
jwside
...who can't even get help.
TremendouslyBestWords
Citation needed on this "half" BS.
jwside
I can only provide for what I have firsthand knowledge of working with low income renters who are on government assistance so of approx...
jwside
...1000 adult tenant, I have 80% on government assistance and of those about 50% are scamming the system. On full disability and working etc
jwside
My point is that there are obvious flaws with the system. The poor are not getting the help they need because of others taking advantge
RedWineAndSkyrim
As a guy on SSI, can confirm. Not to mention the resource limits/income reporting requirements. I personally would prefer working if I could
pdxenburg
Its also rigged to incentivize not working unless you can clear a high enough income to forgo medicare coverage. They should reform that
Markuspsyches
Doesn't if also limit people from taking seasonal/short time employment for fear of being unable to get back on assistance?
RedWineAndSkyrim
You sure? I've never heard of that being an issue. In fact, I seem to remember hearing that one's income would make them ineligible for (1)
RedWineAndSkyrim
SSI before it made them ineligible for medicaid (2/2)
pdxenburg
My girlfriend gets 100% coverage when she's not working, and 80% coverage when she is working. Her medicine is $100k/yr.
pdxenburg
If she has to be making more than $35k/yr just to break even vs. not working and taking SSDI with 100% coverage on the medicine
Attaroo
Most people on welfare work.
mobeis
This isn't a tangible argument because you can't back it with any data. I appreciate your positive outlook on people though. Hang on to that
VagisilToothpaste
But EVERYONE against it has one of those "my neighbor literally deals crack, drives a brand new Escalade and gets welfare!" stories.
VagisilToothpaste
To which I call bullshit.
5P4RK4
Legalize drugs and tax him as a business. 2 birds stoned.
Jyx123
Also everybody on crack.
5P4RK4
countries that legalized: basically no cases where usage went up. Destigmatization encourages more people to get help for addictions.
MostOfImgurGenerallyPissesMeOff
source.
JohnnyTitelips
While this is true, it should be pointed out that the welfare system is abused extensively.
DumpoldRant
Good point. We better end welfare everyone. I'd rather help no one in need ever because some of them might be lying.
JohnnyTitelips
I never said that. Nice strawman though, dick.
OlderTrackSaint
JohnnyTitelips
Is it not?
OlderTrackSaint
It is but in a very small way. Yo know what's worse rich corporations avoiding tax
AsABiologistWhoIsNotFunAtParties
I don't disagree but I wish someone would offer a statistical analysis showing how much of welfare money is going to abusers.
JohnnyTitelips
As do I, but that's obviously a hard thing to accomplish, because no one is going to go tell the feds "yeah I committed fraud."
AsABiologistWhoIsNotFunAtParties
So do we just assume based on anecdotes that it's "really bad" and slash the programs, mostly harming legit beneficiaries?
ImHereToTellYouThatsWrong
Studies are hard as they are so politically charged. The best you can say is that 1%-2% claim something they are not entitled to. Studies...
ImHereToTellYouThatsWrong
...That claim higher conflate mistakes or inaccuracies (even when it costs the claimant) with cheats. Most schemes to catch them cost...
PhilbertPhrog
You have a lot of downvotes, but this is true. My brother doesn't work, gets $200 a month for food stamps, and buys ONLY junk food with it.
PhilbertPhrog
Oreos, chips, megapacks of chocolate, soda, donuts, almost nothing that could be a full meal, so he goes and mooches of others for real food
JohnnyTitelips
Yup. I think these people jumped to the conclusion that I'm against a welfare system, but that's not the case. I'm against its abuse.
PhilbertPhrog
I think we should revamp the specifics of what you can buy with EBT cards to keep people from abusing it.
fadingtheory
Everyone knows that Jesus saved the rich and told the poor to fuck off.
Pahqman
Jesus 'I got mine' Christ
Penguin90
I think you need to view your source on this.
TobiasFunkeAnalrapist
This. He frequently had talks on "Love thy neighbor and Trickle-down economics 101".
HeckuvaEngineer
Jesus was a big fan of Reagan. Everyone asked him what a president was, but he just said "You had to be there."
HumanSacrificeDogsAndCatsLivingTogetherMassHysteria
That was his brother Craig.
BlackHartMTB
"The meek shall inherit the earth... when we're done with it."
LokiKingOfJotunheim
Maybe meek was a future word we will use for feral ghouls and he was using foreshadowing?
danishjuggler21
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cE0_JhLsgPQ
degenerator
The alt-right weighs in! Thanks, alt-right Jesus!
FerengiCommerceAuthority
Prosperity Gospel.
ArcaneConjecture
Alternative John 3:16
MyNipplesLookLikeMilkDuds
"God so loved the rich that he gave his only begotten son, so whoever invests in his stock shall never go poor, but have a sweet ROI."
Vaanhalen
Leegit!!
PhilbertPhrog
Only Begotten CEO
Spinzaku
He did not, however, advocate for Gov. to forcibly redistribute wealth. He advocated personal responsibility & relationships.
Buddha38
This!
Countercheck
It's a little-known fact that 'The Eye of the Needle' is actually a very exclusive and expensive nightclub
FourOrangeCircles
Exclusive or not, I don't know of any nightclubs that let camels in. (Camel spit is hard to get out of the upholstery.)
Attaroo
There was a story that it was the west gate of Jerusalem. Invented by priests who wanted rich patrons.
TosokTheRodentHunter
Pretty sure he said ' blessed are the cheese makers'
FourOrangeCircles
What's so special about the cheese makers?
TosokTheRodentHunter
well obviously, its not meant to be taken literally. it refers to any manufacturer of dairy products
theleafssuck
Not Jesus, Joel Osteen.
LokiKingOfJotunheim
Jupman
Except when he needs his feet washed by some chicks hair.
redshadow1000
The chick actually came in a fit of mourning and sadness. The apostles specifically try to get rid of her but Jesus says let her do what 1/
redshadow1000
She feels she has to do. She did it bc she was ashamed of herself and figured that the only way she could be redeemed (she was a 2/
redshadow1000
Humbleness and repentance. She didnt have to do it nor did he tell her to. She did it of her own volition 4/4
redshadow1000
Prostitute) was to take all the money she saved from her jobs, buy perfume, and wash the messiahs feet with her hair as a form of 3/
GiantRobotsRule
This distinction between public and private funding to help the poor (one is okay, one is not) is a Conservative value, not a Christian one.
Attaroo
Jesus and Paul, the two leading figures of the new testament, make no bones about it. Pay your taxes and help the poor.
UpvoteBuddyJesus
Amen
TexasBaconMan
Technically, he can be President again..
justlivinthedream
But what if I want my sizable church contributions to help the poor?
KidneyBeene
Horrible president.
Varzoth
Last I checked christians belived in charity. Using tax money is not charity, it's forced. So yeh maybe Cater wasn't exactly right.
popejubal
Jesus also said to pay your taxes without complaining.
GiantRobotsRule
No, Christians believe taxes are okay too. Or at least they should, because Christ said so (give into Caesar)
MemeMyselfnI
Do not good works yourself, but giveth thy money to Caesar to do charity, for bureaucrats needeth jobs, too. -The Bible
popejubal
Whose face is on the dollar bill? Give unto Washington what is Washington's and give unto God what is God's.
MemeMyselfnI
I wish I could backtrack to my original so I could see what this stupid comment was being stupid about.
popejubal
There was whining about taxes. I was reminding the audience that Jesus said to pay our taxes without complaining.
MemeMyselfnI
Good point. But, I think the whining was less about taxes n more about who does good works. But I take ur point.
BattloidKouji
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Nice try though.
Attaroo
Yes, but first guy too. Just not ironically.
Attaroo
Romans 13:6. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
Ekajra
Paying taxes =! government-run welfare. Nothing inherently wrong with welfare, but it's not a requirement either.
MemeMyselfnI
For rhe autist above, 1 Cor 13:3, giving money is not charity. Also, 2 Thes 3:10, no work, no food. Govt/ taxes <> charity.
agentarcher
Why don't we give all of the money to the gov't to redistribute and then there won't be any more poor. Oh, wait...
ThunderTodd
I'd rather give of my own free will, not have it taken away or be penalized.
popejubal
Jesus also told us to pay our taxes without complaining.
KharnApproves
Just curious, which organizations do you give to?
ThunderTodd
American Lung Association, St. Judes, No Kid Hungry, and Kaboom.
KharnApproves
Okay cool, good for you. I'm glad you're backing up your beliefs with action.
Vaanhalen
I feel similarly. For me, BSA, Red Cross, and several "zero-overhead" church-run charities for impoverished. We do welfare right.
KharnApproves
For a second I thought you meant you thought Red Cross was zero overhead. I was going to give you a rude awakening. Serioulsy though 1/2
KharnApproves
2/2 I do non profit research, and while they do have overhead, literally no other org can do what RC does.
Vaanhalen
I give my blood to red cross and money to the rest
mommynator
Would any of us even talk to Jesus if he showed up today? He was poor AND homeless...and a rebel for speaking THE Truth...
Vaanhalen
2edgy4me
ITalkAboutGoats
Hell, he probably couldn't come to the US under Trump's laws:
Whenlifegivesyoulemonsthrowthematpeople
Forcing people to do the right thing isn't a christian value either.
moose9377
Of course it is. That's what that big book is for. You are forced to follow it.
popejubal
According to a lot of Christians it is. That's why we have so many "Christians" trying to make gay sex and gay marriage illegal.
Whenlifegivesyoulemonsthrowthematpeople
So we should force people to bake cakes for them or go out of business right?
5P4RK4
Yes.
popejubal
don't have to operate a business that is open to the public. But if you are open to the public, then be open to the public. 6/6
5P4RK4
All of this. There is no difference between hanging a "no gays" sign in your window and a "No Jews". Discrimination is unacceptable.
popejubal
her husband should be choosing (since he is the head of the household and should make all decisions). If you can't do that, then you 5/6
popejubal
interracial couple. If you want to own and operate a business that is open to the public, then be open to the public. If you choose to 2/3
popejubal
required to serve customers regardless of race, creed, or color even if they think that it's immoral for women to shop for cakes that 4/5
popejubal
Depends on who is telling you to "should". I don't see a significant difference between a baker refusing a gay couple vs. refusing an 1/2
popejubal
offer services, then offer services. NO ONE is forced to decorate a cake with a message that they find offensive. EVERY business is 3/4
randorandoreallythatnamestakentoo
Theres is a difference between helping people incapable of earning a livable wage and bottle feeding welfare cases living primarily on gov't
randorandoreallythatnamestakentoo
*There
eclect0
Actually, studies have shown that both types of people will die if they don't eat.
randorandoreallythatnamestakentoo
Apologies... Didn't fact check first
IDGAFaboutinternetpointsanymoresoicandisagreewithimgurnow
Hmm that doesn't sound believable, source?
ITalkAboutGoats
Omg, I love you
Riptide00
The Bible draws no such distinctions. If anything, helping the person you least want to help is probably the more Godly thing to do.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Riptide00
You have to consider the context. Paul is writing to a congregation of working poor in a country with no welfare system ↓
Riptide00
→ and telling them "those unwilling to work will not get to eat" because there is literally no way to feed them. The church ↓
Riptide00
→ did what it could, but it could not provide the support that an entire nation could.
Cancoran
Sounds more like suicidal than godly.
ThrowMamaFromTheTrain
It does indeed make a distinction and we are told to be good stewards of what we've been entrusted with.
Riptide00
Essentialy, God gave Israel commandments as a nation to help their poor, without condition. This shows us God's heart on the issue ↓
Riptide00
→ and also tells us that a nation helping their poor without condition is indeed moral, as it follows God's example with Israel.
ThrowMamaFromTheTrain
And I do help the poor, but that doesn't require government involvement.
Gestalted
It's great ending a work week at the grocery store & watching an able body person them buy chips/soda on EBT & booze/cigs w/ a wad of cash
TroutYabo
Cop friend in a major city says it's mind blowing people just sitting on decks from 8am-5 every day just collecting checks
GapingAnalCavity
I wonder where he got that. Christian traditional values most certainly did include alms for the poor, taking care of widows and orphans etc
kiruwa
While true, there's a difference between charity with your money and charity with someone else's. Basically... welfare isn't charity.
Riptide00
Not according to Old Testament commandments. Israel had an extensive system of giving to the poor that was required, not optional.
DarthFutuza
Israel was also a theocracy, we are not. To try and apply the same laws they lived under, in our government is silly &merges church&state.
DarthFutuza
However that being said, I'm not saying taxes aren't a necessary part for a functioning society, just remember they aren't charitable.
Riptide00
The question is whether Christianity supports a nation helping their poor. God's laws show us He does.
GapingAnalCavity
Welfare as an institution is absolutely a huge part of medieval european society which was decidedly christian. Christianity includes both.
kiruwa
I'm stating that welfare is not charity. It may be right under other Christian virtues (justice, for example).
kiruwa
While true, that society was structured VERY differently. "welfare" was from lords who fundamentally owned everything.
GapingAnalCavity
Not true. Monasteries in frankish gaul and later france and HRE functioned in part as administratoin and storage of excess for the poor
kiruwa
You misunderstood my point. The primary difference is the economic/governmental structure of the time.
GapingAnalCavity
They also worked as retirement homes until the gaellic reformation of continental monasticism and took in orphans.
Jezebella
Jimmy Carter went on from the presidency to almost eradicate the guinea worm. In the eighties there were 3.5 million cases, now 126 cases.
eightbillionppl
Doggo [daw-goh, dog-oh] adverb 1. Informal. in concealment; out of sight.
linwin3
I have a friend who works for his organization doing that in Africa. Some really A+ stuff!
NomDeImguerre
What did they do, shoot all the guinea pigs?
jamastermann
.
jayalbert1
While G. Bush is painting and doing nothing of value (just like when Bush was pres!)
DavidAndrews
Heads up, there's some potentially gross shit in here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4kQWvUv_Ns
thelonepig
I know what that is but I didn't know THAT so wow he's my hero.
BavarianGuy
Those fuckers are nasty... Good guy Carter!
Apeofdeath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculiasis kinda gross
ForgetAboutThis
Is it that thing that makes you feel burning in your legs?
Lvl32Charizard
It's about to become only the second disease completely eradicated from the human species :)
MrAwesomesauce101
The first parasite.
fractald
Him and his wife have also been heavily involved with Habitat for Humanity for 25+ years, actually participating in builds every year.
fractald
Him and his wife have also been heavily involved with Habitat for Humanity for 25+ years, actually participating in builds every year.
bcd051
Not so interesting fact: the Caduceus, a symbol of medicine, is a staff with two guinea worms coiled around it
XooMG
Was going to point out the Asclepius thing until I read "guinea worms".
MrAwesomesauce101
That doesn't sound correct.
Markuspsyches
The symbol of Hermes. 2/2
Markuspsyches
The Rod of Asclepius with 1 snake is the medical symbol (which some think could be thw worm cause of how you remove them) Caduceus is 1/?
phssthpok
To be fair, he didn't do it all by himself.
SarcasticComment
wait... so are you telling me Steve Jobs didn't single handedly build the iphone?
TheGhostofElizabethShue
Well I didn't think he went door to door with nunchucks.
peridotstar
Though that would be pretty awesome lol
MidiArbite
Well thankfully he failed, because I still see plenty of Italians you racist prick!
HappierThanASlinkyOnAnEscalator
Is guinea a derogatory term for Italian? I've never heard that. And Guinea isnt even near Italy, how did that become a thing?
MidiArbite
Apparently it relates to "Guinea Negro" saying Italians are not white.
HappierThanASlinkyOnAnEscalator
Thanks for the info!
ExperimentKraj
It is, yup, but has fallen out of favor. Survives in the second most popular slang for a sleeveless tank top, "guinea tee".
HappierThanASlinkyOnAnEscalator
Thanks for the info! I've never heard of guinea tee either so that was interesting :)
ExperimentKraj
(Second after "wife-beater", obviously.)
TobiasFunkeAnalrapist
PSA: don't google that shit.
DinoSpumonis
You son of a bitch, when you tell me not to do it, I have to find out why you would tell me that
dante1120
first words out of my mouth when I searched it were "cool" ... I do not get disturbed easily.
degenerator
Add this to the list of things not to Google.
eavenPayne
I have to
eavenPayne
Why
JustAUserNameThen
I didn't google it, I just wanted to say nice username. Hope you and your fam get Anustart
RedWingedBlackbirds
I shoulda listened...
promnitedumpsterbaby
Looks like a bowl of spaghetti
ZoeWard
Muh FUCKING GOD, JESUS save me
Nearlyburly
I saw this too late!
Robvp
Why didn't I listen
CassandraCurieux
Whyyyyy did I still do it?
Maraak
Fuckin' hell I was eating and I *still* googled it what the fuck dude ew!
y2kNep
What were you eating?
Maraak
Pasta Carbonara :(
GoIIum
I should have listened! PSA: Especially don't do a image search on that!
ParaMachina
You are my hero. Your UN is life.
RIPSlurmsMckenzie
Fuck! Did it because you said not to...Damnit
SjorsM
I'll just imagine it like a very long guinea pig.
HorseMadeofGhosts
well you're right about the very long part
SwitchPup
So...a guinea pig centipede, then?
liliantbn
Good for you
Tyr13
I like that idea.
iSatan
DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO
ireallyreallylovewaffles
Don't google blue waffles
iSatan
Already googled it long before, wasn't that bad
iSatan
I.... Regret everything...
jc310xc
expanded this specifically looking for your after-comment. Thank you for not disappointing
MercyMei
jc310xc
expanded this specifically looking for your after-comment. Thank you for not disappointing
Jezebella
I watched an hour on it. It was disgusting.
BenSnow97
https://imgur.com/r/eyebleach
Saberlithian
Thank ye, blessed soul.
browsib
That was a rollercoaster
browsib
But fuck that's disgusting
yourethekittiestitties
Uggghhhhh why did I do it
iSatan
Curiousity and naivette, same as me.
iSatan
Single t*
SarcasticComment
He's become an amazing international humanitarian and set the bar high for what can be accomplished in post-presidency
SarcasticComment
before Carter, more often than not, the norm for presidents was to retire into a life of quiet comfort away from the public eye.
ServantOfTheGodEmperorOfUsersub
I hope Obama sets the bar even higher.
SarcasticComment
only time will tell. he first has to find a project he is passionate about and go from there.
3654798521
You can say he will Trump any obstacle in his way?
peridotstar
There are some signals of that--he's starting a foundation; theres a link from his twitter page. I haven't seen the video but I'm encouraged
Zinfiir
Charity, when done by force, is neither charitable nor moral.
LosPer
Thank you.
eclect0
On the other hand, render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's.
ThrowMamaFromTheTrain
Which, is nothing because God owns everything.
eclect0
I wad literally quoting Jesus there, but thanks for playing and better luck next time.
ThrowMamaFromTheTrain
Yea, I know. Still stands.
bluefacepaint
Except that quote is literally Jesus telling the Pharisees to pay their taxes.
packasmacks
This right here is what people don't seem to understand. If you support a cause, donate to it.
eclect0
Vaanhalen
But it's easier and I feel just as good, if I vote to make someone else donate it. (This is how others feel)
AnAsOfYetUnidentifiedIndividual
Not everyone can afford to though- either because they don't have enough generally or because they can also only give to so many causes.
Bsizzle42
Maybe they'd have the money to donate to charity if their taxes weren't so damn high
Vaanhalen
Ah, you've noticed a single dollar will only go so far! "...welcome to the Republican party."
Riptide00
The Old Testament has a number of commandments from God requiring all citizens of Israel to help the poor, regardless of laziness. ↓
DarthFutuza
Yeah, but the commandments were literally the Law. Back then the Israelites lived in a theocracy, we do not. If God were King, then sure.
Riptide00
if you're a Christian, the commandments reveal God's heart on a nation helping her poor. The answer is: yes and without condition.
DarthFutuza
Doesn't say it has to be through taxes though. Do you really want to merge church and state? Christ himself said give Caesar's Caesars, etc.
Riptide00
It's not merging church and state. The state has independent reasons to help the poor, purely for the benefit of society, ↓
cslewisck
I do give to the poor, but I dont want the gov to be the organization I give to.Private local organizations are much more efficient & direct
Riptide00
Then give directly to the poor and use your giving as a tax write-off. This is allowed under current law.
cslewisck
That's what I do. I'm trying to show that not wanting tax $ going to the poor does not invalidate Christian morality. Better ways to give
Riptide00
Well, no. Charitable giving is nice, but leaves massive gaps in who receives help and who doesn't. If we want to be a Christian nation, ↓
DarthFutuza
I feel the same. However at the same time I also worry that the poor don't get enough help unless we force the less compassionate to help.
kisselFL
There's at least 10 verses in Proverbs condemning slothfulness.
Riptide00
... and at least 10 commandments directing Israel to feed the hungry, irregardless.
ThrowMamaFromTheTrain
I'm not Israel
Riptide00
If you're a Christian, these commandments show you God's heart on the issue. If you're not a Christian, then you're in the wrong thread.
IDGAFaboutinternetpointsanymoresoicandisagreewithimgurnow
Yes to give charity, not goverment inacted wealth redistribution.
Riptide00
God gave Israel commandments, as a nation, to help the poor, without condition. Was this "wealth redistribution"? Probably. ↓
Riptide00
Are you saying God was immoral, by *forcing* Israel to help the poor? If so, you are a mighty strange Christian.
packasmacks
Yes, he was. I'll go ahead and assume most Christians disagree with over half of the old testament and it's punishments.
Riptide00
That is a pretty wild assumption. Just as I assumed from the topic and the phrasing of your post that you were speaking as a Christian.
packasmacks
What's the wild assumption? That most Christians disagree with the old testament and it's ridiculous punishments?
cslewisck
Israel was a theocracy. USA is a capitalist republican democracy. Tax $ to the poor is an unwise stretch of the gov into an area best served
cslewisck
By private local organizations who don't have to work through the red tape and oversight, which allows them to better serve the community
Riptide00
Private charities are important but have huge gaps in who receives help and who doesn't. Also, this post is directed at Christians who ↓
AnAsOfYetUnidentifiedIndividual
Fuck the taxation system then I guess? Nice quote, except for the fact that shitty people exist en mass and the system must deal with that.
AnAsOfYetUnidentifiedIndividual
The point of government is to provide/maintain a central structure to society. A big part of that is supporting the general population.
AnAsOfYetUnidentifiedIndividual
Especially when much of the issue is people being severely disadvantaged by circumstance, so it can be more about correction than charity.
DarthFutuza
More like, any government provided assistance through taxation is not charitable by definition, (though it may be necessary and needed).
AnAsOfYetUnidentifiedIndividual
I'm concerned with the 'nor moral'. Whether it's charity or not is not important to me.
DarthFutuza
I feel the same however I have to wonder how much of my taxes are effectively being used, if I were to donate it to a local charity instead.
ferrelferret
Jesus preached to give willingly not be force, which is how the apostles and early believers lived.
IronCretin
Acts 5:1-11. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+5 Looks like force to me.
somethingslightlyfunnythatmightmakeyouchuckle
Move to a tax free country. Like the Emirates.
popejubal
Whose picture is on the dollar bill? Give unto Washington what is Washington's and give unto God what is God's.
GiantRobotsRule
Jesus said taxes are okay (give unto Caesar). Can you picture Jesus saying "give into Caesar, but don't let that tax money help the poor"?
duckhuntkid
People (mis)quote the Bible to make whatever argument they want. This is the problem with religion and politics.
ThatOneGuyThatDidThatThingWithThosePeople
It doesn't change the fact that people should be free to help others willingly, by their own choice.
ITalkAboutGoats
And when they overwhelmingly don't? Who would you like to die on your front step?
ThatOneGuyThatDidThatThingWithThosePeople
Idk, who's first in line?
ITalkAboutGoats
Wow.
duckhuntkid
No it doesn't. It also means that if people talk about being a Christian then they should act the way real christians do.
AceLynch
Just out of curiosity, where is this set-in-stone definition of a "real christian"?
duckhuntkid
Oh... hmmm... I dunno... the Bible... New Testament. My point is that modern day "christians" quote the gay bashing side of things 1/2
Attaroo
Luke 3:11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”
MittenMagick
Point to me where it says "government" in there.
IDGAFaboutinternetpointsanymoresoicandisagreewithimgurnow
Note how it's not saying , take a shirt from the guy with 2 shirts and give it to the guy with no shirts.
kisselFL
"Should" is the keyword there.
Attaroo
OK, so if you choose not to are you being a good christian?
[deleted]
[deleted]
Attaroo
Agreed, but it's not about charity, it's about helping the poor. Jesus and Paul said pay taxes and help the poor.
DarthFutuza
Lol. No. How can you truly say you love your neighbor if you withhold help from him when he needs it and you have the means to help?
Attaroo
Seems pretty obvious doesn't it? I also don't get the militant Christians. Turn the other cheek?
Throwawayabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvqxyzscrewyoubilliejoel
No, but John isn't going to do anything to you if you don
Attaroo
But Caesar will if you don't pay your taxes, and Jesus knows that. That, indeed, was the point of the 'trap.'
ferrelferret
Ananias and Sapphira did not want to give everything in Acts, but that was fine. That they lied and said it was everything was their sin.
DarthFutuza
Not exactly. They had prior covenanted to give everything they had, they then broke their covenant, & then lied about it when confronted.
DarthFutuza
Their case is unique, because they had already agreed and promised that they would share all things in common. I wud't use them as a example
ferrelferret
And Paul also teaches that everyone should give only if the feel they should and within their means. The LORD desires a cheerful giver.
Attaroo
Romans 13:5-7. Paul says pay your taxes, period.
Riptide00
The Old Testament has a number of commandments from God requiring all citizens of Israel to help the poor. ↓
Riptide00
Jesus and Paul were talking about helping the poor, above and beyond this minimal societal amount.
MindlessChaos
The OT rules were applicable to the Hebrew people. Gentiles were grafted in and as such, would not have the "minimal societal amount"
DarthFutuza
The Israelites also lived in a theocracy, while Jesus and Paul lived where Church and State were separated (well kinda separated).
MindlessChaos
Voluntary giving is charity... don't be confused.
iwanttomountndewya
Ah, now I don't feel so bad that I can't donate and the like. Wish I could but I can't.
doczaius
Great news! The government is here to force you to!
Attaroo
Don't really get how progressive taxation works, do you?
Cheomesh
Labor.That's how I do it.My neighborhood does cleanups and suchlike and (having no $) I just bring my hands.
DarthFutuza
"I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give."
Attaroo
Mark 12:41-44. The poor woman who gave all she had was worth more than the riches of the wealthy.
DarthFutuza
^^This.
Attaroo
I'm an atheist, but there's damn good parts of the bible. Follow what Christ said and you'll be a good person.
WooPigSooie
What is the two most important commandments Jesus gave?
SoundFuture
Love God and love your neighbor. I'm big on Galatians 5:14 myself.
DarthFutuza
Love God and your neighbor. But if the government forces you to "love" someone, is it really love? Or just a bitter dragging of feet?
WooPigSooie
So paying your taxes is being the equivalent of being forced to love your neighbor? That's quite a leap there.
DarthFutuza
I don't really think so, if the person being taxed doesn't want to do it/support it, then there's no love involved.
WooPigSooie
If the government using tax dollars to help the poor gets your panties up in a wad, you ain't showing love to your neighbor.
DarthFutuza
Or maybe I just don't trust the government to actually use my taxes for loving my neighbor and I'd prefer to donate it directly.
thesixthcourier
All it takes for that giving to be done willingly is for you to support it. Who are you to say that anyone is undeserving of help? WWJD?
Attaroo
Nope. That's just what your church tells you because they'd rather have your money.
DarthFutuza
Or because that's what it literally says they did in Acts, and many other parts. You don't have to attend a Church at all to know this.
Attaroo
Jesus himself said pay your taxes. But please, tell me what parts of the bible override Christ? I'll wait.
DarthFutuza
I'm not arguing against taxes at all. What part of what I said made you think that?
Attaroo
Sorry, I thought you were arguing against that premise. I see now my mistake. My apologies.
WooPigSooie
"Give unto Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is Gods." Mark 12:17. By your logic a tithe is by force and you shouldn't have to right?
Youdabomb
Tithing was an old testament tax to support the priesthood.
enzio64
1.Charity should not be by force, and taxes shouldn't necessarily go to charity. Less taxes ideally mean more money for charities and people
Attaroo
Think about that one. He was saying pay your taxes to an occupier. That money went to Roman soldiers.
AndreKroon
Couldnt that technicaly mean something along the lines of "beat up Caesar", or maybe "Dont listen to him" or something?
bluefacepaint
No, it can't. Take in it's full context and it's literally saying "Pay your taxes."
DarthFutuza
That's not however to mean he's saying, "Vote for more taxes".
AndreKroon
True, but without that context that statement could very well mean what I said. And I had no knowledge of that context either, so you know.
DarthFutuza
Since when are tithes by force?
ILikeCuteGifsAndICannotLie
Mormans submit tax return to show they rigged the required amount or lose temple recommend.
ILikeCuteGifsAndICannotLie
Fucking auto correct. Tithed
DarthFutuza
Going to the Temple is optional, going to Church is optional, choosing to be a Mormon is optional. This has nothing to do with government.
ILikeCuteGifsAndICannotLie
I guess I misinterpreted your intial statement about forced tithes. I know it's not government enforced.
Nordenfeldt
The people who claim we need proper Christian values in the US, are the same ones arguing right now that we need to reintroduce Torture.
LongbranchPenniwhistle
The only reason the government had to step in and help the poor is because the Church failed at its job.
GadenKerensky
To be fair, torture isn't exclusively a religious thing. It can be an act of sadism, or a military act, as it has been many times before.
SjorsM
An eye for an eye, right?
BirdLuger
If it's good enough for jesus
pres2pond
To be fair, The Bible is inconsistent enough to support most any cause you like.
Ballsdeepinmywineglass
Torture is very Christian, do you not read the Bible?
DaedaIus
As opposed to the other side, who argues the need to kill babies.
DontTouchMyDrumset
Hey there! Christian here... Don't support torture. Thanks and have a great day!
Nordenfeldt
Good for you, but can you say the same about your US peers?
Furiou5
My family sent me to a christian high school. One day one of the more angsty students loudly proclaimed that the Spanish Inquisition(1)
Furiou5
was perpetrated by christians; therefore christians advocate torture. To this the teacher answered: "They claimed to be Christians, just(2)
Furiou5
like they claimed to be humans; I think we can both agree that they were not." I respect the fuck out of that answer.(3)
WithPride
I love easily people believe in generalizing the religious but if you say it about any other group, it is "wrong".
tzxAzrael
well lets be fair.. they liked torture a LOT back in those days, and christianity is not exactly "violence-free".
ChewyVuitton
I believe waterboarding to be an acceptable punishment for terrorists but thats about it
PrinceRupert
That's the "torture" everyone is on about...
ChewyVuitton
It doesn't inflict pain and it's pretty much deserved to those who choose to attack our way of life
MikeAracter
Christ was tortured,it's a theme.
zma123456
The same people also are getting behind a man who wants to increase nuclear bomb capacity.
BlackHartMTB
But Jesus was tortured we celebrate that with chocolate bunnies.
applesforjuice
I'm so tired of the whole "the same people who ___ are the same people who ___" argument. Shut the fuck up with that
Deltanmusic
Also the same people who don't want no more 'illegals' flooding our Murcia. And don't get them started on those 'Muslims'.
degenerator
Who's Torture? A new rap artist?
AngryGroundhog
Torture, leaving refugees to die, shutting down hospitals all over Africa if they so much as mention abortion...good Christian stuff.
PrincessDonaldTrumpBANNED
Jesus waterboarded Constantine until he converted Rome to Christianity
aselfdefeatingattitude
The origins of the Religious Right is all about hate http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133
ledious
It's just part of the conservative strategy for winning over votes. They pretend to be on the side of Christian s but in reality it's greed
KWJester49
SOME of the people are the same, maybe. Also, the US has never stopped torture, just limited what we've done.
Nordenfeldt
Torture was illegal before Bush Jr, then illegal again after Obama. Now trump wants it back. To quote him 'water boarding and worse.'
KWJester49
Not saying Trump doesn't want more torture methods available, dunno enough. Just saying US has never stopped torture even when "illegal."
KWJester49
It has done "torture light" methods which are not always legally defined as torture, or at least not by the US laws.
LetMePickMyTeethThenHaveMoreChips2
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition
zeethenomad
Well if it was good enough for Jesus....
TangoIndiaTangoSierra
Stoning and stretching was a thing, tho
Cheomesh
I remember stoning but not stretching.
Nordenfeldt
Indeed, I believe Jesus himself said something about 'always cast the first stone at the sinners', wasn't that it?
JaromirAzarov
It's "who is without sin cast the first stone (on the other sinners)".
Nordenfeldt
(slow clap)
Schmedes
Implying that nobody should cast judgment because they aren't perfect
wadatahmydamie
The same ones who claim to be pro-life support a man who vowed to bomb actual children
Furiou5
To be fair Obama was a pro at that.
PatrikLilja
Where/when did he promise that?
TheRealSirGregorCleganeTheMountain
http://time.com/4132368/donald-trump-isis-bombing/
PatrikLilja
Thank you for the response.
Jezebella
I've read that book. There's some screwed up stuff in there. That being said, Jesus said, "Be excellent to each other". . .or something.
danishjuggler21
"For reals, you guys should totes be more chill to each other." Revelations 3:29
classicgrinder
Derfalke
And verily did Jesus say, '...and party on, dude!'
almostsomething182
Honestly, as a Christian, that's what i go by. That Jesus was a smart guy.
comehomefransbrauder
Not all Christians voted for Trump, you know.
AngryGroundhog
I'm really disappointed more didn't; I honestly though Clinton's pleas to basic human decency in all 3 debates would have struck a chord.
The1whoplays
I don't think you have the right to call yourself christian if you voted for Trump (unless that's your name)
Nordenfeldt
No, but the religious right overwhelmingly did.
comehomefransbrauder
And the religious left overwhelmingly did not.
superflusive
they aren't actually very religious though... contrary to what they'd have you believe.
Nordenfeldt
Do you want to tell them that or shall I?
plasmarob
Former Mormon missionary. I've told them. Bad/fake Christianity has become disgustingly popular. "Team Jesus" ignores everything he taught.
plasmarob
Former Mormon missionary. I've told them. Bad/fake Christianity has become disgustingly popular. "Team Jesus" ignores everything he taught.
SixFeetShort
They are? I've met lots of Christian blue people but never a torture advocate.
RunningBackwardsThroughACornFieldNaked
Like me... or anyone else ive ever met.
SixFeetShort
*values Autocorrect
Nordenfeldt
They voted strongly for Trump who was quite open about his intent to legalise 'water boarding and worse' and murder terrorists' families.
GilaMonsieur
Given how much people were voting against the other candidate, most people probably don't agree with everything their candidate said.
SixFeetShort
It was a shiniest turd competition
Nordenfeldt
You know what? The man said 'lets bring back torture', and 'lets kill women and children as US policy'. And they voted for him.
KitsunesFire
What do you mean jesus preached peace? Wasnt he a gun tootin burger lovin hot blooded murkian?
UnknownSquid
"If your neighbours house is on fire, let him deal with it. Fire service? Screw that socialist bullshit! Buy a popcorn machine." ~ Jesus
GadenKerensky
"The Pope may be French, but Jesus was English." - A Knight's Tale. Sadly, that kind of logic is dangerously potent across the planet.
drunkbs
GadenKerensky
Vision!
doctorbees
Shhh, don't tell them Jesus was Middle Eastern and brown.
GadenKerensky
As Tim Minchin put it, "A Dead Palestinian pressganged into selling Playstations and Beer."
valarjk
so jesus would have trouble entering the US today?
RussianMathNinja
I seriously doubt that he would be let in. A Middle Eastern man preaching radical equality? The right wouldn't be sure whether to label 1/2
doctorbees
Most likely.
GorgeFloyd
There's no contradiction there. Torture is historically very Christian.
WelcomeToTheShatterdome
Historically Christians were the subjects of torture. Should you ever get a chance to read foxes book of martyrs it's quite eye opening.
cleveranduniqueusername
So are rape and slavery, so apparently the "proper" Christians lost the civil war.
ElRadis
Spanish Inquisition indeed. At least they sent you a letter 30 days in advance, notifying you were going to be investigated.
SteveElzey
Yea but nobody expected it.
JohnnyTitelips
No it's not. Something being practiced by Christians and something being Christian are two different things.
hashbaz
Jesus never tortured or advocated torture. People claiming to be his followers did. But that's not being Christian. That's being false.
WelcomeToTheShatterdome
There were those in history who claimed to be Christian and have done horrible things in God's name. That never made them Christian.
WelcomeToTheShatterdome
The dark ages were some fun times there.
TheGhostofLouReed
Jesus wasn't a Christian only his followers are.
eclect0
Most of the violence associated with Christianity came from the warlike European culture that adopted it rather than the religion itself.
ITalkAboutGoats
Have you read the Old Testament?
WithPride
That's a shifty excuse of a reply.
hashbaz
old testament was before Christ came along. Hence not christianity.
ecodude
Jesus sorta retconned the Old Testament. Long story short, what Jesus says goes and he corrected a lot of old teachings to be more loving.
EricFromAccounts
Speaking as a moderate Atheist, please be careful. ACTUAL attacks on Christianity will have Fox News and the Alt-Right masturbating joyously
Attaroo
And why be the victim? Moderate and left Christians won't support pogroms. Stand up for yourself. We all have to.
GorgeFloyd
Well I'm a militant atheist and masturbate furiously. Does that help? :)
EricFromAccounts
Well... no. But there are no stupid answers.
Attaroo
You mean like they are now? Newsflash - Christians voted for Trump in overwhelming numbers.
EricFromAccounts
What?? I'm saying they want attacks on Christianity in order to lend credence to their claims that Christians are being pursecuted. 1/2
EricFromAccounts
They LOVE playing the victim card because they want to lobby for laws to protect and enrich themselves without actual open supremacism. 2/2
oOhHELLno
Well i'm an European Roman Catholic and I can say this for sure, we despise trump and all he stands for !
EricFromAccounts
Cheers. As a Brit, may I remind you that we had the largest number of signatures for a parliamentary petition EVER to ban Trump from the UK.
mizcs
yeah, what do they think the cross is? its a brutal torture/execution device
Sumpte
You realise the Romans weren't the good guys in that bit of the story, right?
mizcs
well, the execution of Christ is necessary for Christianity's existence
Sumpte
But the take-home message isn't that crosses are great and that you should nail people to them. Rather the opposite.
Nordenfeldt
All those Christians who read the Passion in the bible and quietly whisper "yeah, that's right, give it to that Middle eastern Socialist..."
PMMeYourPopplios
I'm not a Christian but this is really ticking me off. Jesus was tortured on a cross, he didn't go around torturing other people.
ThatsABoldStrategyCotton
But I don't think christians per say supported Jesus being tortured.
LiterallyWorseThanHitler
Then again, without him dying on the cross, he wouldn't have the same significance, so it is kinda necessary for the whole Jesus deal.
ThatsABoldStrategyCotton
It is necessary, yes, but the whole example is being used to show the evil in man - what we should fight against as human beings.
girlpants
I'm not sure if you genuinely condone torture, or are just making good use of your nick.
Zigor22
Torturing our enemies? Wtf is wrong with that? Those animals do worse to INNOCENT people. They deserve more than simulated drowning.
kirivon
I'm sure the people who had a stray bomb fall on their house and kill their children feel the same way (about you).
Zigor22
They are in a war zone. We aren't. Pissing around worrying about upsetting politicians during wartime costs US lives.
kirivon
How does it cost lives? Are you implying that torture yields high-quality intelligence, if so do you have any evidence to back that up?
Zigor22
How would I have recent evidence since they got rid of torture? Also it isn't the same as the inquisition where innocents were tortured.
kirivon
Note items #1, #2, #12, and #16 in particular. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CRPT-113srpt288/pdf/CRPT-113srpt288.pdf
AwesomeName
Also: Christian values means a 100% tax rate for the rich.
BreakTheCircle
No... it's 10% and up, whatever you're willing to tithe...
toddthewee
"Sooner a camel pass through the eye of a needle, than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven" or something.
AwesomeName
Matthew 19:21: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."
BreakTheCircle
If you want to give it all you’ve got,” Jesus replied, go sell your possessions; give everything to the poor. All your wealth
BreakTheCircle
will then be in heaven. Then come follow me. Matthew 19:21 MSG
BreakTheCircle
All that verse says is it is a choice, but nothing on earth is important as it's all physical, what awaits in Heaven is so much better
AwesomeName
You are correct. But it's clear what Jesus would've thought of tax breaks for the rich.