I can confirm that this is not an actual aircraft part as in current commercial engines. We use single blades, because they need to be replacable - which happens quite often, you do not want to replace the entire part. Plus they are monocrystal with a certain grid alignment, which would be impossible to mill from a sigle piece. Further we use titanium and ceramic compunds, aluminum would be to weak and steel too heavy.
I was trying to think what it might be from - F-35 lift fan, Geared Turbofan, Turboprop... I don't think it's any of those but maybe one turbine stage and the transfer gear for a V-22?
On larger turbines they are, as they can be made out of some incredibly tough materials (Inconel is one) and have internal cooling passages and other features.
On smaller turbines the joint between the blade and the disk would be too weak so they cut them out of a single piece of metal in a process not too dissimilar to the above, this is what's known as a "Bladed Disk" or "Blisk".
Machining a blisk is as much an art form as a science because they have to be precise to an absurd degree.
Thanks. I based my comment on watching a Rolls-Royce turbofan engine being constructed. I'm still surprised though that it is possible to use the same material for the body of the rotor and the blades, I would have thought that the specs for the rotor and the blades were so different that one material on its own wouldn't have been versatile enough. There's also the issue of damage as well, is it economic to replace everything following damage to one blade ?
Blisks for engines can be made out of some pretty exotic materials as well, entire blisks milled out of a single billet of high grade titanium, or I've even seen mentions of machining them out of Inconel which is just mildly insane considering how strong/expensive it is.
Basically when it comes to turbines, whether you're replacing a single blade or an entire blisk... it's gonna be expensive.
If you wanna see good content on working on various size turbines look up AgentJayZ on the youtubes.
This looks like a part made for a advertisement showcase. They often use deep cuts and no lubricant for visual reasons and also to show how well it handles even when breaking rules. It may not "need" cutting oil, but AFAIK cutting oil always is always better when machining metal for wear and tear, and makes a smoother finish.
There is indeed no need for oil. But you need cooling, and just cold air will usually not work, so pure alcohol is what you need (as in real life...). Aluminium causes no sparks, so it's pretty safe - if you don't inhale too much of that alcohol...
I suspect it also depends heavily on the type of aluminium alloy. Given that this looks like an airplane engine part I wouldn't have a clue what kind of special alloy this is.
No, actual jet engines the blades are removable/replaceable, and the manufacturing process for a blade is also a very involved process. This is likely a demo piece as others have said as the metallurgy would be very poor for the application.
Not to mention the cost of de-bird'ing the old engine. I mean.... I dunno what the going rate is, but you would need to pay me a hell of a lot to pick bits of toasted bird-goo out of the remains of an engine.
If we're talking the turbo fan engine on a modern airliner, most of the bird is going to go around the hot section entirely, what little does make it through the centre of the fan and into the engine core, I doubt it's going to make it past all the stages of the compressor.
The bird bits would have to make it all the way past the blue line to enter the hot side of the engine, there's a LOT of fan blades and stator blades in the way. It's not an open passage but quite a mess of small passages.
The government doesn't want you to know but the birds are actually free you can take them home. I have acquired a number of water fowl and several woodpeckers all within my legal rights.
Actually since they removed all the pay phones the only way out of the matrix is to reprogram a government bird flock to open a quack in the simulation.
I write CNC software. It was challenging to write, but it makes the creation of actual milling instructions from CAD or computer artwork fairly simple.
And those dimensions probably arise from considerations out of materials science and such, which I would not describe as "just Math". Maybe Math is the language it's written in, but then that's like calling the Constitution "just English".
You just do one path and repeat it as often you need it. There is also slicing, which means you just draw it in CAD and the machine writes the code automatically.
only in 3D printing is it called "slicing" because only in 3D printing can you do it in slices. The software for 5-axis subtractive machining is considerably more complex and difficult to get working.
generating g-code for subtractive machining is rather more complex than for 3d printing. Yes you still generally use tools to do it, but those tools can cost up to $100K for a seat and require a fair bit of knowledge and skill to use well.
It's the specialization and in theory time that goes into them that is meant to lead to you saving more than that much if you use the software. In theory. It probably started like that, now it's "industry standard" and "vendor lock in".
It is, but using Siemens NX with a proper CAD CAM things will work out really feasible, but you need to measure the tools correctly (Renishaw or Toolscope) and tweak the parameters on monitoring tear and wear of the cutting edges
Of course you need to consider that. We have making trial cuts with ceramic milling tools that turned out really nice except the fact, that you must use air for cooling the tool and not any fluids as the tools would be "shocked" by the temperature change. Machine was a Makino D500 5-axis simultaneous milling machine that will outperform any DN Solutions, Mikron or DMG/Mori 5-axis milling machine in the same price range
I use a post-it note to zero the Z on my 3 axis, because i work for a place that doesn't have the money or time to zero out the Z with anything other than a post-it note. And i reuse the post-it note.
Use a 1-2-3 block. Go down in .1 increments and check between each click if the block goes under, once the block doesn’t go under go up a click and repeat with .01 .001 and .0001 (if necessary) then subtract 3 inches from the length of the tool. Let me know if you have any questions.
That's not a bad method! I used to do that, but i think i started cutting corners. I'm machining soft materials with a weak mill, so if i'm off a little it's not so bad. I'll use your method when it matters, though.
You can use a gauge block too if you don’t have good 3-2-1 blocks. I’m happy to field any questions you have. Worked as a tool maker for 10 years and taught for about a year.
I started out as a drafter, then i was a product designer, then a tool designer, then a prototype machinist, then a "whatever we need" machinist, all at once. Being in charge of the product design AND the prototype design is great because i can design for my tools and abilities when possible, and at the same time, tell them to outsource things my basic software and skills can't do. My toolpath software can't show undercuts or negative draft bits, lol, i use autocad and imagination. Fun times!
phoony
That‘ll be tree fiddy.
slidewhistlesymphony
Hnnng..
Almaadin
I prefer monocrystaline turbine blades. Thank you very much.
ThomasTheWankEnglne
thats an impressive piece of ace
ddashizzle
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1aDJ0c3doZGppMXJudzh3eDJhMTY5NTdpbXZsdHM2bWJvemdrZGxsOCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/plrhd7RveGGZy/200w.webp
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
What happens to all the excess metal shavings? Do they get recycled, or just thrown into the street?
GuitarsAndCodeAndRage
dotjar
Machineporn
LuveBunny
And this is why manufacturing with low educated workers on assembly lines is not coming back to the US
MioTaalas
Aren't turbine blades usually exchangeable? I mean they do get damaged so one would need to machine this whole thing again... Seems expensive :P
SergeyPrkl
small units are fixed. They are called "Blisk"
nojustsayitdont
Had to go look up where they get the extra two axis from. It's rotation of the piece around the the tool along the tool's 'x' and 'y' axis.
SgtLemming
Can also be the rotation of the tool around the piece. 5 Axis 3D printers are starting to become popular and some move the head not the bed.
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
the motions are more clear here
revasseur
There can even be more than 5. It might be more accurate if they called them "articulations" rather than "axes".
WhiskyBravo
That's totally Metal
KaJuN
Man look at how it cuts those panendermic semi-boloid slots in the stator. No chance of side fumbling there!
ArmyStrings
But those hydrocoptic marzel vanes, though
PanNonOpticon
Hypoid gear with a turbine?
That must be some demonstration piece. As the hypoid drive shaft would turn a million revolution per minute, if not.
Quaxx
I can confirm that this is not an actual aircraft part as in current commercial engines. We use single blades, because they need to be replacable - which happens quite often, you do not want to replace the entire part. Plus they are monocrystal with a certain grid alignment, which would be impossible to mill from a sigle piece. Further we use titanium and ceramic compunds, aluminum would be to weak and steel too heavy.
THUB
Blisks are definitely a thing, just not with the spiral level gear attached.
k2backhoe
APU - Auxiliary Power Unit?
revasseur
I was trying to think what it might be from - F-35 lift fan, Geared Turbofan, Turboprop... I don't think it's any of those but maybe one turbine stage and the transfer gear for a V-22?
derekjohn
Surely turbine blades are made to be individually replaceable ? I think it's a demonstration piece.
SgtLemming
On larger turbines they are, as they can be made out of some incredibly tough materials (Inconel is one) and have internal cooling passages and other features.
On smaller turbines the joint between the blade and the disk would be too weak so they cut them out of a single piece of metal in a process not too dissimilar to the above, this is what's known as a "Bladed Disk" or "Blisk".
Machining a blisk is as much an art form as a science because they have to be precise to an absurd degree.
derekjohn
Thanks. I based my comment on watching a Rolls-Royce turbofan engine being constructed. I'm still surprised though that it is possible to use the same material for the body of the rotor and the blades, I would have thought that the specs for the rotor and the blades were so different that one material on its own wouldn't have been versatile enough. There's also the issue of damage as well, is it economic to replace everything following damage to one blade ?
SgtLemming
Blisks for engines can be made out of some pretty exotic materials as well, entire blisks milled out of a single billet of high grade titanium, or I've even seen mentions of machining them out of Inconel which is just mildly insane considering how strong/expensive it is.
Basically when it comes to turbines, whether you're replacing a single blade or an entire blisk... it's gonna be expensive.
If you wanna see good content on working on various size turbines look up AgentJayZ on the youtubes.
ForgotMyUsernameYetAgain
Is aluminum soft enough to not need cutting oil?
Barchimes
actually...the best way to cool aluminium is to use petroleum.... I know...
Telemapus
All I know as a former Alfa Romeo Busso V6 owner, is that when aluminium corrodes and mixes with motor oil, that shit looks INFECTED.
SciencePetsComputers
This looks like a part made for a advertisement showcase. They often use deep cuts and no lubricant for visual reasons and also to show how well it handles even when breaking rules. It may not "need" cutting oil, but AFAIK cutting oil always is always better when machining metal for wear and tear, and makes a smoother finish.
SeeJenJen
No, it’s an impeller.
2drunk2play
There is indeed no need for oil. But you need cooling, and just cold air will usually not work, so pure alcohol is what you need (as in real life...). Aluminium causes no sparks, so it's pretty safe - if you don't inhale too much of that alcohol...
DougDingo
I hope to god you're doing that machining under inert gas.
MioTaalas
Depends on the alloy. It's very rare to have pure aluminium in machining...
verukt89
Yeah generally it just gunks it up and causes problems. They just run a steady stream of cold air and watch the speed and feed rates.
LautrecOfCarim
I suspect it also depends heavily on the type of aluminium alloy. Given that this looks like an airplane engine part I wouldn't have a clue what kind of special alloy this is.
SgtLemming
Nah, this is more likely a demo piece made to show off the machines capabilities, it's too big and heavy for a turbine engine component.
Luffian
Yeah, I was thinking impeller at first, but those ports around the middle make no sense for anything that rotates
initforthespecs
Heyzeus, that why bird strikes are so expensive??
whatsisname
No, actual jet engines the blades are removable/replaceable, and the manufacturing process for a blade is also a very involved process. This is likely a demo piece as others have said as the metallurgy would be very poor for the application.
SgtLemming
This looks more like a demo piece for a machining company tyhan an actual aircraft component.
SeeJenJen
No, it’s an impeller.
SgtLemming
For what? Because no impeller I've ever seen looks like this. There are too many clashing features.
9z2nf02h
Yeah all of those different features don't make sense on the same part which is, in theory, rotating very fast.
ThisIsNotTheBestUsername
That and the birds themselves don't come cheap either.
itsean
Not to mention the cost of de-bird'ing the old engine. I mean.... I dunno what the going rate is, but you would need to pay me a hell of a lot to pick bits of toasted bird-goo out of the remains of an engine.
ThisIsNotTheBestUsername
About 5 is my going rate.
SgtLemming
Considering the parts of the engine at the front are actually mostly cold... it wouldn't be toasted.
itsean
Pretty sure the bits of bird end up all thought the engine....
SgtLemming
If we're talking the turbo fan engine on a modern airliner, most of the bird is going to go around the hot section entirely, what little does make it through the centre of the fan and into the engine core, I doubt it's going to make it past all the stages of the compressor.
SgtLemming
The bird bits would have to make it all the way past the blue line to enter the hot side of the engine, there's a LOT of fan blades and stator blades in the way. It's not an open passage but quite a mess of small passages.
OneMoreLime
The government doesn't want you to know but the birds are actually free you can take them home. I have acquired a number of water fowl and several woodpeckers all within my legal rights.
AcaelusThorne
Wish I could up more this twice but I can't so here's my compliments
ThisIsNotTheBestUsername
Lucky you, I keep getting billed for all the seagulls I take.
Goatfer
The DNR would like a word...
bekkayya
THE BIRDS ARE DRONES TAKING THEM HOME IS EXACTLY WHAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTS YOU TO DO WAKE UP SHEEPLE
OneMoreLime
Actually since they removed all the pay phones the only way out of the matrix is to reprogram a government bird flock to open a quack in the simulation.
bekkayya
verukt89
Programming the tool paths must have been a f#$%in nightmare. Like rocket science difficult.
tinyfootprints
I write CNC software. It was challenging to write, but it makes the creation of actual milling instructions from CAD or computer artwork fairly simple.
SergeyPrkl
To be honest, rocket science is fairly simple compared to 5D cnc.
verukt89
Lol honestly i believe that is true
gobblinal
It's just math.
Jordan7831
“Everything is computer!”
MrAcurite
Math major/Roboticist/Autonomous systems guy who occasionally pokes his head over the wall to look at what machinists are up to here:
No.
gobblinal
I didn't say it was *simple* math. There's probably more dimensions being considered here than in string theory.
MrAcurite
And those dimensions probably arise from considerations out of materials science and such, which I would not describe as "just Math". Maybe Math is the language it's written in, but then that's like calling the Constitution "just English".
Krom83
You just do one path and repeat it as often you need it. There is also slicing, which means you just draw it in CAD and the machine writes the code automatically.
DougDingo
only in 3D printing is it called "slicing" because only in 3D printing can you do it in slices. The software for 5-axis subtractive machining is considerably more complex and difficult to get working.
valen00
generating g-code for subtractive machining is rather more complex than for 3d printing. Yes you still generally use tools to do it, but those tools can cost up to $100K for a seat and require a fair bit of knowledge and skill to use well.
verukt89
The cost for some of the seats is insane lol like design programs are soo expensive
valen00
It's the specialization and in theory time that goes into them that is meant to lead to you saving more than that much if you use the software. In theory. It probably started like that, now it's "industry standard" and "vendor lock in".
allesumsonst
It is, but using Siemens NX with a proper CAD CAM things will work out really feasible, but you need to measure the tools correctly (Renishaw or Toolscope) and tweak the parameters on monitoring tear and wear of the cutting edges
squelcheswetly
Of course!
JohnSmithterms
Has to be one of the most niche responses on imgur. Congrats on doing something useful with your life. I did programming, which i now regret.
OmnibusLatinName
We'd just scrap one and then make a d code adjustment. I don't claim it's smart, it's just the way we do things :)
somnif
I wonder, do you have to compensate for thermal expansion of the tool/work face as they heat up from the cutting?
allesumsonst
Of course you need to consider that. We have making trial cuts with ceramic milling tools that turned out really nice except the fact, that you must use air for cooling the tool and not any fluids as the tools would be "shocked" by the temperature change. Machine was a Makino D500 5-axis simultaneous milling machine that will outperform any DN Solutions, Mikron or DMG/Mori 5-axis milling machine in the same price range
MKUltraMega
How is side fumbling eradicated though? /gallery/turbo-encabulator-7970p6p
valen00
terminal phase detractors duh
dogmatix
I love that this post has hit your personal area of nerdy expertise dead on. :)
TheBlueMuppet
I use a post-it note to zero the Z on my 3 axis, because i work for a place that doesn't have the money or time to zero out the Z with anything other than a post-it note. And i reuse the post-it note.
OmnibusLatinName
We got probes in the last batch of machines, hurray! Welcome to the twentieth century!
verukt89
Lol i used rolling papers haha
TheBlueMuppet
Ill bet that's even better, im sure that those are thinner
verukt89
Yes they're like .003 of if i remember correctly. It's been a few years
TheBlueMuppet
That's fine, my machine is out more than that, lol
hhggg3000
Use a 1-2-3 block. Go down in .1 increments and check between each click if the block goes under, once the block doesn’t go under go up a click and repeat with .01 .001 and .0001 (if necessary) then subtract 3 inches from the length of the tool. Let me know if you have any questions.
TheBlueMuppet
That's not a bad method! I used to do that, but i think i started cutting corners. I'm machining soft materials with a weak mill, so if i'm off a little it's not so bad. I'll use your method when it matters, though.
hhggg3000
You can use a gauge block too if you don’t have good 3-2-1 blocks. I’m happy to field any questions you have. Worked as a tool maker for 10 years and taught for about a year.
TheBlueMuppet
I started out as a drafter, then i was a product designer, then a tool designer, then a prototype machinist, then a "whatever we need" machinist, all at once. Being in charge of the product design AND the prototype design is great because i can design for my tools and abilities when possible, and at the same time, tell them to outsource things my basic software and skills can't do. My toolpath software can't show undercuts or negative draft bits, lol, i use autocad and imagination. Fun times!
Luffian
That looks expensive as fuck
[deleted]
[deleted]
Yupurineutah
So back then it was 100% pure unobtainium.
forelle
That was exactly my first thought as well. Scrolled down and there was the top comment.
Evenmoreuselessname
Oops, forgot to start the tool spinning before entry in my G-code. Now it's twice as expensive
BeerCir
So 2 fucks?
mikeatike
More than twice if you include the damage to the machine.
creepyguyheygurl
I think ballpark is around 250k
perfecteye18
That looks like a stator for any of the high bypass Trent 1000s
spike26892
make it double
the part in the making is easy in the million's
mxcory
You forgot to tell us to prepare for trouble!
itsean
It's actually more expensive than fuck.
OldnFatBobba
depends on the fuck. Some fucks carry one or more 19 year sentences, during which time the probability of additional sentences increases dramatically.
overflowin2718
You haven't met my ex wife. That was an awfully expensive fuck.
Marikhen
That's what happens when you fuck the babysitter's boyfriend instead of your wife. /j
Turboslacker
It's measured in megafucks
TheJusticeMitchell
Who Gigafucks?!
SimSimSimsalabim
Giga Chads.
icouldntthinkofabetterusername2
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlNjBkM3cwNWVyZmhjd3d6NmFvdjFrc2V0ZzhlZG00dTRmMzVvYms1ZSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/Vqvr9BGv1vhDi/200w.mp4