It's just so depressing to me to see this. This was once a lively place, full of people and activity, folks making happy memories with their friends or families. And now it's dead and barren. Perhaps I'm being too sentimental for an edifice of capitalism, but malls like this were more than just a place for commerce. Friendships were made and broken here. Relationships began and ended. I know I had plenty of good times hanging out with my friends at the local mall.
It's weird that malls died in the USA but not in elsewhere. We still have malls in Finland and we get new ones steadily...
And they're far from abandoned.
Why?
Because they're where the people are! They're not separated, but are at large public transportation hubs and where people go to work etc... So they stay vibrant.
They fill jars with wax and a tiny bit of chemical scent, the jar is the most expensive part of the product and they probably cost about a fifty cents each when purchased in the tens of thousands. Each candle costs less than a dollar to produce and another dollar to ship, then they sell it for $15-25, and they don't spoil.
They make so much money on each sale half their stuff could get stolen and they would still be profitable.
BBW must be such an amazing profit center. They produce such generic shit, and slap a sparkly label on it to appeal to bored rich housewives, and sell it at ridiculous prices.
Ill be honest. Kind of weird seeing just an open, miss-shaped field and buildings around it feels like a liminal space. kind of creeping me out. Like my mind will say there was something here but I see nothing.
Few of my favs... Sam Goody/Musicland, Wherehouse, 1 Potato 2, B.dalton, Babbages, Miller's Outpost, Hickory Farms (fond memories of my mom buying me a 3 inch round summer sausage slice on a stick), Sees Candy, Service Merchandise.
One word: Amazon. Also, a few more. Jobs paying too little, Rent and cost of living is too damn high. no one can buy shit. THANKS GREEDY RICH ASSHOLES!
Do we want this? YES. Is it possible, eh not really. It's not profitable and would require a massive purchase of the property no municipality besides big bigguns could afford or unless an insane emminent domain is pulled of the land is pulled and the land owners would fight it tooth and nail.
turning malls into affordable housing for seniors/55+ with indoor "park" space, pool, and food courts is a cool idea. Put up solar on the rooftops to help power the area. It would be neat.
Best we can do is a 7 story apartment building. $2800/month plus utilities and a $200 "because you're poor" fee. The roads on every side of this will never be navigable again.
It would be easier and faster to just tear the entire structure down and build a new building actually made from the ground up to be residential. Most of these malls are only one or two stories tall. You could instead build several 4-5 story apartment blocks on that property, with plenty of parking, green spaces, and even some light retail. You could make a small walkable community in the space one of these malls takes up.
If they converted these to paintball arenas and air soft arenas, I promise you they would make money. They could also employ homeless people too, and house them there. And I could open a food stand called tacos, burgers, and hot soups! Everyone wins!
On top of the reasons already said, there's also the matter of policing it and keeping it a clean and safe location. It's just too much money and logistical strain.
A better solution would be to harvest what they can from dead malls and create smaller individualized living parks with tiny homes. I believe there's a post that floats around here showing a successful one. It's like six little houses behind a wall.
If the corruption in homeless funding is to believed, THEY are making money off the problem. However, I don't think it's JUST the lack of empathy, the threat of homelessness is a feature. Desperation makes for cheaper labor.
People always suggest this but the costs to get the necessary bathroom facilities alone to actually fill the role of housing would probably cost as much or more than tearing it all down and rebuilding actual apartments. That's not considering heating and cooling, power, and other utilities to make them functional for housing. Granted tearing it all down and rebuilding something more useful for the community is what they should do if the mall owners can't make rent reasonable for small businesses
This, exactly. One of the side effects of rampant commercialism is the specialization of spaces, and they just aren't interchangeable. It's possible, but you're right, tearing down and rebuilding is almost certainly the better choice. That comes with significant investment, which usually means govt funding. Which due to some pretty advanced fuckery is kind of not a thing at the moment.
I saw a video where they'd made the top floor of a mall into little living units. Micro apartments, basically. They did somehow get the plumbing sorted out, but the bigger problem was the ventilation for stoves. They ended up putting a fridge and microwave in, but no stovetops or ovens. The video interviewed a few people living there, they were all short-term kind of thing, or to have a place in a city that they travel to often for work, it was cheaper than a hotel. I don't think you /1
could really live in one full-time though. The space they had in the upper gallery wasn't really big enough for very large apartments. I guess it had been small individual offices before. /2
I keep seeing all these dead mall posts, and yet as far as I can tell malls are still thriving in Western Canada. I can only assume the malls want way too much for rent.
I live in Eastern Canada and the mall has died here in my community because of the big box stores. One stop shopping used to involve going to a mall but now it is a trip to Costco.
Rent issues, but also the fact that malls require foot traffic to thrive. Most malls in the US rewrite you to drive to them so it becomes a place to go to a specific shop. Most stores realized that they can just open a store somewhere else and do exactly the same business without all the mall rules. If you look to places that have large amounts of foot traffic malls are absolutely thriving. When I went to Japan, malls there were all over the place and jam packed all the time
Also very location dependant. There are 5 malls within a reasonable drive from me, 3 are thriving (or seem to be) one is mostly empty and the other closed down completely after looking like this post for a year or so.
Malls were still around in SoCal but most of the ones doing well were outdoor malls. Indoor malls like south coast plaza does well tho probably because of the high end brands in it.
Yeah, they (malls, particularly the indoor variety - as opposed to the outdoor "outlet malls") were already on the decline heading into the pandemic, but once that hitt globally; many of the stores began closing, cause obviously, there was no longer any sort of revenue stream & inevitably, that led to rental space increasing 🤷
Some of the malls near where I grew up in the northeast US have basically turned in to a bunch of doctors offices. Hospitals will buy a large chunks of storefront or rehab clinics will and turn them into medical offices.
I was up in La Loche, SK and I said to someone "You must love Amazon." I was yold Amazon and UPS didn't go there, they have to drive to Battleford, 500km, to shop! Guess you still need those malls out there.
Most of them got bought up by the same hedge funds, jacked rents and failed. The only stores left are the big names with long term leases they can afford to strongarm or pay extra for. This was the intent, shuttered real estate the hedge funds other company paid pennies for. Also Robin Sparkles drove Canadians to malls while Americans didn't have her.
I was in Edmonton for work a few weeks ago and had some down time. I decided to visit the West Edmonton Mall. That was an experience. Craziest mall I’ve ever seen but I imagine it’s really nice when it’s a frozen wasteland outside and you need something to do all day.
That is a huge factor yes. I worked at a mall for a while, all the places that left did so because rent got too high. But they also kept bringing in high end expensive stores.
A buddy of mine owns a small chain of stores. He was up to 10 or 12 at one point, all of them in malls. The rules were nuts. Penalties for not opening the store on time or closing early, the works. His business has been surpassed by online services and he's had trouble adjusting. With rising costs and rising rent he's down to just two stores and an online delivery site and doesn't expect to survive the year.
The nearest mall to me was going this route, mostly a combination of rapidly growing rent and "4/5 of the stores were the same 'urban' clothing options but with different company names." Recently started a huge rebuilding effort that involved tearing down a big chunk of it, and making more outdoor-area and such around, we'll see how THAT goes.
Here in Western Australia some of the bigger malls are struggling. Smaller "shopping centres" are doing fine, because they typically have things like one or two major supermarkets as foundation tenants, and things like butchers, newsagents, a post office, hairdressers, gift stores, and small restaurants as their other tenants and they're located smack in the centre of a suburb, like my local: https://www.google.com/maps/search/forrestfield+shopping+centre/
Speaking for Canada, when it's cold out but you want to hang out with your friends or be social the mall is the place to go. West Edmonton mall takes about 15 mins to get from one side to the other at a moderate pace. Granted it also has a water park, amusement park, golf course, huge pirate ship lol. Were as these dead malls i see are usually just shops.
We have a mall like this one in our town in Canada. It used to be great, but then the owners forced everyone out and plan on using it for storage. They suck. We call it the "sad mall".
Visted the West Edmonton mall when I was in town working with the fire department. Was awesome. Will be back up there later this year and I will be visiting again. It is everything a mall should be.
100% the problem is what they chatge for a space. All the ones in my local mall have a major turnover because none can afford to keep the space with lower sales. But the mall can be busy once in a while. Seems like it could slowly become a thing again if we had fun stores who could afford to be there and maybe something like an arcade again. But God forbid it be affordable for anyone.
Probably cost a lot to heat/cool all that massive space. Even when a mall is fully occupied there's tons of wasted open spaces in corridors being heated/cooled.
Here in St Louis, the first ones to close were the ones that had lack of security and were genuinely dangerous to go to. Then the ones with inflated rent. And then the ones with suboptimal locations. It's about half what there used to be, but there's still at least 4 thriving malls here.
A couple rapes in the parking lot, a carjacking, a few muggings. The is St Louis, I remember hearing about a fatal shooting at a greasy spoon called Eat Rite and my first thought was "again?"
All the money or no money, excellent business model for success. I'm sure insurance pays well enough for the lost income for vacant stores that it doesn't make sense to stock it
Insurance has nothing to do with it. Mall rent is so high because vacancy losses are considered tax deductible. You can literally choose to pay zero taxes by adjusting rental prices of units you have no intention of renting.
It’s also an issue of financing for commercial buildings. Loans are set with interest, and value the building based on expected rental income based on the rental price. It’s cheaper to have a multi million building vacant, than to lower the rents, and trigger a revaluation of the loans which would require an immediate pay back of the difference. Eg if you have $20M borrowed based on the building being “worth” $25M, then dropping rent 20% means you have to pay the bank $4M immediately.
I've always wondered why malls didn't fill vacancies with small andor upcoming businesses in order to promote growth in the community. I always knew the answer was greed, but I didn't know the true extent of the greed. What a fucking waste of land and opportunity, just so one person/entity can be a little richer
abidikgubidik
Just give it a couple months and there will be a Spirit Halloween there
rogers7
This looks like the mall in Early, Texas!
cronostrike
The mall closest to me is mostly dead and only has a few stores left, the Bath and Bodyworks was actually the most recent closure in it finally. Still take the kids on my weekends with them for the arcade and trampoline park that are still open, they love walking Pokémon Go routes (specifically the one called "Dead Mall Walk") in there.
lorgash
Is this Fashion Square, soon to be the Home Depot?
ReginaGoddess
That's literally my mall đź‘€
ReginaGoddess
@OP Hey we still have a Spencer's, Planet Fitness, and Sakura here!
HeadJamistan
That kid is BACK on the escalator!
Macetheace50
Mall Rats movie Reference.
k4y8hh2q282
Feel sad that kids our days will never live shopping centre life.
unluckyandbored
It's just so depressing to me to see this. This was once a lively place, full of people and activity, folks making happy memories with their friends or families. And now it's dead and barren. Perhaps I'm being too sentimental for an edifice of capitalism, but malls like this were more than just a place for commerce. Friendships were made and broken here. Relationships began and ended. I know I had plenty of good times hanging out with my friends at the local mall.
MioTaalas
It's weird that malls died in the USA but not in elsewhere. We still have malls in Finland and we get new ones steadily...
And they're far from abandoned.
Why?
Because they're where the people are! They're not separated, but are at large public transportation hubs and where people go to work etc... So they stay vibrant.
tepidreindeer
The one in my town is half pediatric healthcare, 1/4 a ymca and…still has bath and body works.
kixxarse1986
Tracy, CA?
DangerBaer
Wait, what? I drive by there all the time. Is it dead now?
Level21Magikarp
They are a front for a money laundering operation.
cactuskid1956
Those are Cinnabon stores
SayRamrod
better call saul vibes
captcheckdown2000
Candle stores and bath and body works are just money laundering operations. Fight me
LordHosk
(steps into the ring)
They fill jars with wax and a tiny bit of chemical scent, the jar is the most expensive part of the product and they probably cost about a fifty cents each when purchased in the tens of thousands. Each candle costs less than a dollar to produce and another dollar to ship, then they sell it for $15-25, and they don't spoil.
They make so much money on each sale half their stuff could get stolen and they would still be profitable.
QuartzPoker
Candles do spoil, but it takes a few years or keeping them in the heat for too long.
Snow44444
BBW must be such an amazing profit center. They produce such generic shit, and slap a sparkly label on it to appeal to bored rich housewives, and sell it at ridiculous prices.
Wuz314159
Well, they tore down my mall and kept the Planet fitness & cinema. https://maps.app.goo.gl/DLmok8heBK4ngCrH6
dbox
Did the same here, Google needs an update https://maps.app.goo.gl/wt6wYYFgTFHkSBX29
Redshadow09
Ill be honest. Kind of weird seeing just an open, miss-shaped field and buildings around it feels like a liminal space. kind of creeping me out. Like my mind will say there was something here but I see nothing.
Wuz314159
For about a year after they tore it down, they got the satellite update quick, but maps still had the old stores map overlay.
StuPuff
Is the song Bonzie Biddy singing?
PinnHead350
duktayp
Aladdins Castle...Radio Shack...Spencers' Gifts...Orange Julius...kiosks with the 3D posters...FOOD COURT...
wheresthetoaster
Aladdin’s Castle?! Wut!! Haven’t that of that place in years
Snow44444
Fotomat
Shapster
Aladdin’s Fucking Castle
bigfatpanda89
I will add on to the list of Aladdin's Castle memories. That place was had even more hype than Crossfire©
DefaOmega
Wait was Aladdin's Castle a chain? I thought my mall was the only one that had it!
judgewolfgm
Was Camelot Music a chain? I remember the little CD kiosks you could listen to music at. All those others you listed hit my nostalgia bone.
Deoxyribonucleicacidwashedgenes
The 'It' Store.
factcheckmate
Circuit City
GentryFriedRichFillets
God, I had forgotten about Aladdins Castle. You have triggered memories of that and staring at X-Men figures at KB Toys.
Badgerbadgerson3
OH GODS KB TOYS!!
pixelbat
Few of my favs... Sam Goody/Musicland, Wherehouse, 1 Potato 2, B.dalton, Babbages, Miller's Outpost, Hickory Farms (fond memories of my mom buying me a 3 inch round summer sausage slice on a stick), Sees Candy, Service Merchandise.
dtallen243
Damn your mall is doing good, there's still lights on. At the mall(s) near me, only the stores that are still in operation have power.
Redshadow09
One word: Amazon. Also, a few more. Jobs paying too little, Rent and cost of living is too damn high. no one can buy shit. THANKS GREEDY RICH ASSHOLES!
QuartzPoker
The Clothing Store Event Horizon is a notorious killer of malls, too.
SleazyBijou
Our mall is a vape juice distribution center… weird
LordHosk
That should tell you what their markup is. That store is still profitable.
studman57
Fashion square?
AN1087
My 1st thought as well! The desert designs are unique
chipperchipper
Looks like a backroom level
Redshadow09
getting PTSD of Kane Pixels backrooms seeing this and that music is not helping
njrk97
oh boy then you would not like the other series he did, The Oldest View.
Redshadow09
I watched that. That is what I was referring too. I assume that was part of the backrooms but a spin off series.
mpowers2345365
I'm grateful people still want to wash their hands
Mrpipboy3000
Liberty Tree?
ShutUpMeh
Tuttle?
AmericanSamurai
Fox Run?
Hashbrown123
Fox Run wasn't this bad last time I went.
manyslayer
Arnot?
IJustWantToMakeAComment
Turn this into a homeless shelter or some sort of affordable housing.
rbudrick
Do we want this? YES. Is it possible, eh not really. It's not profitable and would require a massive purchase of the property no municipality besides big bigguns could afford or unless an insane emminent domain is pulled of the land is pulled and the land owners would fight it tooth and nail.
historycat
Retirement homes for Gen X
TheHappyHermit
turning malls into affordable housing for seniors/55+ with indoor "park" space, pool, and food courts is a cool idea. Put up solar on the rooftops to help power the area. It would be neat.
TheLastBootyBender
Knock out some walls, turn them into paintball or airsoft arenas
HamSlamwich
Best we can do is a 7 story apartment building. $2800/month plus utilities and a $200 "because you're poor" fee. The roads on every side of this will never be navigable again.
DeadyBearr
Oh and no parking
HamSlamwich
No FREE parking. For $60 per week you can park in the lot that is half a mile from your door, and has an average of 9 break-ins per week.
unluckyandbored
It would be easier and faster to just tear the entire structure down and build a new building actually made from the ground up to be residential. Most of these malls are only one or two stories tall. You could instead build several 4-5 story apartment blocks on that property, with plenty of parking, green spaces, and even some light retail. You could make a small walkable community in the space one of these malls takes up.
knotch2
If they converted these to paintball arenas and air soft arenas, I promise you they would make money. They could also employ homeless people too, and house them there. And I could open a food stand called tacos, burgers, and hot soups! Everyone wins!
slipvyne
DID WE JUST BECOME BEST FRIENDS?
/gallery/P68eEBa/comment/2462394839
TheMrDomino
On top of the reasons already said, there's also the matter of policing it and keeping it a clean and safe location. It's just too much money and logistical strain.
A better solution would be to harvest what they can from dead malls and create smaller individualized living parks with tiny homes. I believe there's a post that floats around here showing a successful one. It's like six little houses behind a wall.
TouchMyInfection
ThM1ck
The problem is, these buildings are not plumbed for residence and heating and cooling them is monstrously expensive.
Neurisko
It wouldn't work for the same reasons we're in this mess.
poundinasphalt
Carlin said no one can make money off the homeless problem, that’s why America hasn’t fixed it. No one in power has any empathy.
slipvyne
it's more that...there's *more* money in keeping people homeless and poor than it is to properly care for hem.
imtiredboss
If the corruption in homeless funding is to believed, THEY are making money off the problem. However, I don't think it's JUST the lack of empathy, the threat of homelessness is a feature. Desperation makes for cheaper labor.
Vebrandsson
People always suggest this but the costs to get the necessary bathroom facilities alone to actually fill the role of housing would probably cost as much or more than tearing it all down and rebuilding actual apartments. That's not considering heating and cooling, power, and other utilities to make them functional for housing. Granted tearing it all down and rebuilding something more useful for the community is what they should do if the mall owners can't make rent reasonable for small businesses
rowzdowr
This, exactly. One of the side effects of rampant commercialism is the specialization of spaces, and they just aren't interchangeable. It's possible, but you're right, tearing down and rebuilding is almost certainly the better choice. That comes with significant investment, which usually means govt funding. Which due to some pretty advanced fuckery is kind of not a thing at the moment.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
I saw a video where they'd made the top floor of a mall into little living units. Micro apartments, basically. They did somehow get the plumbing sorted out, but the bigger problem was the ventilation for stoves. They ended up putting a fridge and microwave in, but no stovetops or ovens. The video interviewed a few people living there, they were all short-term kind of thing, or to have a place in a city that they travel to often for work, it was cheaper than a hotel. I don't think you /1
mynamespaul
I thought this was going to turn into a shitpost about George A Romero’s 1978 cult classic Dawn of the Dead.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
could really live in one full-time though. The space they had in the upper gallery wasn't really big enough for very large apartments. I guess it had been small individual offices before. /2
eppykaze
I keep seeing all these dead mall posts, and yet as far as I can tell malls are still thriving in Western Canada. I can only assume the malls want way too much for rent.
eadanke
Mall owners charge companies money if they close their store outside usual hours, this ran into Covid problems and companies pulled out.
theworldcouldbeflat
I live in Eastern Canada and the mall has died here in my community because of the big box stores. One stop shopping used to involve going to a mall but now it is a trip to Costco.
poiuyt7481
Rent issues, but also the fact that malls require foot traffic to thrive. Most malls in the US rewrite you to drive to them so it becomes a place to go to a specific shop. Most stores realized that they can just open a store somewhere else and do exactly the same business without all the mall rules. If you look to places that have large amounts of foot traffic malls are absolutely thriving. When I went to Japan, malls there were all over the place and jam packed all the time
rdmage11
Also very location dependant. There are 5 malls within a reasonable drive from me, 3 are thriving (or seem to be) one is mostly empty and the other closed down completely after looking like this post for a year or so.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Ya it seemed like 10-15 years ago they were starting to fail. But now they are crazy busy.
JapaneseGeneticists
SL,UT has plenty of thriving malls, sure they're not exactly as busy as they were in their heyday, but they still have plenty of foot traffic.
CitrusyGarlic
I heard that Robin Sparkles is playing at your mall this Saturday!
MTH254
Malls were still around in SoCal but most of the ones doing well were outdoor malls. Indoor malls like south coast plaza does well tho probably because of the high end brands in it.
imtiredboss
It probably costs less without having to run AC across the whole complex. Why have that when SoCal has good weather damned near all year round?
sirrobbifo
Yeah, they (malls, particularly the indoor variety - as opposed to the outdoor "outlet malls") were already on the decline heading into the pandemic, but once that hitt globally; many of the stores began closing, cause obviously, there was no longer any sort of revenue stream & inevitably, that led to rental space increasing 🤷
ChesterBeaumont
Some of the malls near where I grew up in the northeast US have basically turned in to a bunch of doctors offices. Hospitals will buy a large chunks of storefront or rehab clinics will and turn them into medical offices.
StOfKillers
We visited Canada two years ago. Sweet, sweet mall reminded me of the 90s.
glovelyday
I was up in La Loche, SK and I said to someone "You must love Amazon." I was yold Amazon and UPS didn't go there, they have to drive to Battleford, 500km, to shop! Guess you still need those malls out there.
pareidoliaperson
People only want to shop online = nobody wants to work these days!
xj4low
Many anchor stores went bankrupt. Sears, JC Penneys, Bed Bath and Beyond etc...
avenlanzer
Most of them got bought up by the same hedge funds, jacked rents and failed. The only stores left are the big names with long term leases they can afford to strongarm or pay extra for. This was the intent, shuttered real estate the hedge funds other company paid pennies for.
Also Robin Sparkles drove Canadians to malls while Americans didn't have her.
LoftheDesert
My local mall in BorĂĄs used to be quite popular but now it's quite dead with only a few shops remaining open. Mostly clothes.
EmeraldLight
The mall in my northern BC town is shite because they are charging INSANE amounts of rent
LaserDolphin
I was in Edmonton for work a few weeks ago and had some down time. I decided to visit the West Edmonton Mall. That was an experience. Craziest mall I’ve ever seen but I imagine it’s really nice when it’s a frozen wasteland outside and you need something to do all day.
eppykaze
Yeah, West Ed is something else. The dolphin show when I was a kid was a reason to drive up from Calgary.
DoseOfScience
Last time I went into one, it was basically all clothing stores. Like, 80%. I'm thinking it's some degree of throughput.
FireSolvesProblems
That is a huge factor yes. I worked at a mall for a while, all the places that left did so because rent got too high. But they also kept bringing in high end expensive stores.
CyberWizard252
A buddy of mine owns a small chain of stores. He was up to 10 or 12 at one point, all of them in malls. The rules were nuts. Penalties for not opening the store on time or closing early, the works. His business has been surpassed by online services and he's had trouble adjusting. With rising costs and rising rent he's down to just two stores and an online delivery site and doesn't expect to survive the year.
ChazzK
The nearest mall to me was going this route, mostly a combination of rapidly growing rent and "4/5 of the stores were the same 'urban' clothing options but with different company names." Recently started a huge rebuilding effort that involved tearing down a big chunk of it, and making more outdoor-area and such around, we'll see how THAT goes.
martineb72
A lot of was just overbuilding. You don't need to have a mall a maximum of 15 minutes away.
ChristopherHallett
Here in Western Australia some of the bigger malls are struggling. Smaller "shopping centres" are doing fine, because they typically have things like one or two major supermarkets as foundation tenants, and things like butchers, newsagents, a post office, hairdressers, gift stores, and small restaurants as their other tenants and they're located smack in the centre of a suburb, like my local: https://www.google.com/maps/search/forrestfield+shopping+centre/
possiblyafakeaccount
Seems like a haunting commentary on the economy
555rms8wcm360
It’s all the Midwest and Great Lakes area. Specifically Detroit. We are still building malls in California.
SmilinSloth
Speaking for Canada, when it's cold out but you want to hang out with your friends or be social the mall is the place to go. West Edmonton mall takes about 15 mins to get from one side to the other at a moderate pace. Granted it also has a water park, amusement park, golf course, huge pirate ship lol. Were as these dead malls i see are usually just shops.
Musamura0987
We have a mall like this one in our town in Canada. It used to be great, but then the owners forced everyone out and plan on using it for storage. They suck. We call it the "sad mall".
bassbastard
Visted the West Edmonton mall when I was in town working with the fire department. Was awesome. Will be back up there later this year and I will be visiting again. It is everything a mall should be.
TheInfalliblePhallus
Yes! The Oregon malls are dying because the rent is astronomical.
relsky
I have one near where I grew up, in Eastern NC. It is definitely thriving.
AnonOmis1000
I've been to two malls in tbe Phoenix area. While they aren't thrumming with people, they are far from dead, even on week days.
ImAGrower
100% the problem is what they chatge for a space. All the ones in my local mall have a major turnover because none can afford to keep the space with lower sales. But the mall can be busy once in a while. Seems like it could slowly become a thing again if we had fun stores who could afford to be there and maybe something like an arcade again. But God forbid it be affordable for anyone.
Relictivity
Probably cost a lot to heat/cool all that massive space. Even when a mall is fully occupied there's tons of wasted open spaces in corridors being heated/cooled.
damanzer0
You should see the malls in the Philippines. There are so many and always full
tombeithemist
Amazing that they're thriving. They're all the same. You see one, you've seen the mall..
feren
And nothing of value is lost, really.
B3N15
Disagree, malls were a third place people could go a socialize
meganical
I mean, it kind of is if it causes people to shop on Amazon instead. Don’t give Jeff Bezos more money
Pevinsghost
Here in St Louis, the first ones to close were the ones that had lack of security and were genuinely dangerous to go to. Then the ones with inflated rent. And then the ones with suboptimal locations. It's about half what there used to be, but there's still at least 4 thriving malls here.
theworldcouldbeflat
If you could expand on the whole a mall is dangerous thing it would be appreciated. Do some malls get multiple mass shootings or something?
Pevinsghost
A couple rapes in the parking lot, a carjacking, a few muggings. The is St Louis, I remember hearing about a fatal shooting at a greasy spoon called Eat Rite and my first thought was "again?"
theworldcouldbeflat
That is so messed up.
Stoneagedudeman
Yep. Here in SE alabama our local mall wants 6k a month for a 15x50 storefront in the middle of a cutaway hall.
Kiosks are 1300 a month. It's wild
walnutbreath
That's only $8/sq ft. That's insanely cheap for retail space. The national average is $25/sq ft.
TheOldSchoolisBack
Bruh. That $25/sq. ft. Average is annually, not monthly.
Magnar1183
A fuckin' kiosk should only be, I dunno, $700(?)/month!
wseslar
All the money or no money, excellent business model for success. I'm sure insurance pays well enough for the lost income for vacant stores that it doesn't make sense to stock it
Heavenissize17socks
Insurance has nothing to do with it.
Mall rent is so high because vacancy losses are considered tax deductible. You can literally choose to pay zero taxes by adjusting rental prices of units you have no intention of renting.
080080
that's not how rental losses work. i don't know where you heard that nonsense.
wseslar
I appreciate the insight! It's always some kinda scam in all branches of capitalism, as long as you can afford the entry fee.
CeoHuntingSeason
What genius came up with that?
Ghlargh
American tax law makers, US tax is famous for being vast, convoluted and heavily biased in favor of large corporations.
nicelyvillainous
It’s also an issue of financing for commercial buildings. Loans are set with interest, and value the building based on expected rental income based on the rental price. It’s cheaper to have a multi million building vacant, than to lower the rents, and trigger a revaluation of the loans which would require an immediate pay back of the difference. Eg if you have $20M borrowed based on the building being “worth” $25M, then dropping rent 20% means you have to pay the bank $4M immediately.
wseslar
I've always wondered why malls didn't fill vacancies with small andor upcoming businesses in order to promote growth in the community. I always knew the answer was greed, but I didn't know the true extent of the greed. What a fucking waste of land and opportunity, just so one person/entity can be a little richer