Malvorlagen
347464
6627
810
Or it could be this
Jun 26, 2014 12:02 PM
Malvorlagen
347464
6627
810
evfan09
but she's Canadian
qwedswerty
Many people agree with me, but there are people who don't. And those people are a proof that I am right. Problematic retorics.
SacreDoom
GENDER SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON ANYTHING THAT IT DOESN'T PHYSICALLY HAVE TO. CAN WE ALL AGREE? DENKS.
FrogNamedKitty
Nah, I think a sign of equality is focusing on all humans (humanism) rather than one gender.
beautifulpeanutbutter
I know feminism is as touchy as Helen Keller on Imgur, but can we at least agree that men and women should be equal?
haterstotheleft
Yes! Yes, please! tbh, this bullshit crusade is really over semantics.
AThiefOfTime
You know you can believe in feminism and egalitarianism at the same time, and that the extremists are the minority, right?
HuevosConCarnage
The minorities tend to have the loudest megaphones. Plus they get more views on the news then sensible people.
HuevosConCarnage
Hmmm...perhaps I should have rephrased this....
Jambra97
In my opinion, surely if feminists actually moved away from the radical idiots and came together under the banner name "humanitarians" (1)
Jambra97
Then surely it would be easier to stop any radical idiots from having anything to do with the cause
pinksugarheart425
Ugh. Enough of this, please!
ReptilianOverlord
If both the militant feminists, and the indignant, MRA, "friendzoned" neckbeards could both fuck off I'd be happy.
captain5
http://fancyoatmealblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/tumblr_inline_mirienr4sp1qz4rgp.gif?w=560
sheepwithasword
I agree. I am so fucking tired of this shit. How many #NotAllMen Neckbeards are on here for godsake?
AcadianBacon
But... but that's a French woman in the picture. D: Seriously though, enough with the social justice crap. GIMME FUNNY PICTURES! D:<
alexa129
There seems to be a deluge of douche lately, I concur.
kvotheaintgotnothinonme
lol, because Masculism is seen as such a good word too...?
Malorak
Men are cool, Women are cool, rape is bad, gays are cool, religion is cool, just shut up, live your life, be happy! It's that easy guise.
Malorak
Except that people are asshats I know. Do the first step and stop spreading already known knowledge on a fun-site. Thanks.
icbpenguin
First one is good, second one is just retarded
Catfactory
'Radical x is destroying y.' No. The world is more complicated than that. Radical x is just what you know about, because they're shocking.
TheArchduchess
When I say I'm a feminist: "so you hate when men open the door?" No, as long as I can open the door for them too. Equality.
Gdan79
You can open the door for me any time.
cobragrunt
I would say you can, but my ancestors would rise from the grave and beat me if I let you. Not saying you can't, but I got heavy voodoo on me
TheArchduchess
That is some unfortunate voodoo, my friend. Better loudly announce that before I get to the door so I can help you avoid being cursed!
cobragrunt
Thank you Archduchess (of what I assume is awesomeness) How about we meet at a two part entrance and I open one, then you hold the other.
HeyCasButt
I love two part entrances. You get to be nice and the the person has an opportunity to reciprocate or I get to be doubly nice
TheArchduchess
Solid plan! I like your thinking! XD
cobragrunt
I'm like dad jokes, I'm pretty good 50% of the time. The rest... you still accept because they are dad jokes.
JenWontShutUp
There will always be extremists in any ideology. That doesn't negate the fact that the ideology itself is important.
shadowex3
What have feminists done about feminists in india blocking a law that would have made raping men a crime?
[deleted]
[deleted]
JenWontShutUp
Not your babe, bae.
shadowex3
The difference is whether the rest of the ideology fights back agains tthem and does good, or whether the extremists have free reign.
shadowex3
The answer is nothing. They condone it with silence, and then whine when held responsible for that inaction online.
shadowex3
What have feminists done about the death threats, bomb threats, and felonies committed against people discussing men's issues?
OnlyHalfasInteresting
"my father was a feminist". "not your mother?". "no my father wouldnt allow that."
WeiYanZhuo
FOTC!
DysgraphicProgrammer
Or we could just post some puppies and kittens and leave these arguments to sites w/o a 130 character limit.
AncientPostNecromancer
Maybe they are using Imgur as a place to post an image so they can link it to another website. Just maybe.
K1dunseen2
NO!
citoyenne
Yes, please.
skybird
You, I like you!
LurkerLad
Begone harbinger of logic and good times!
YouCantKeepJetpackingAwayFromYourProblemsBrian
That would be too easy
thecptawesome
140
DysgraphicProgrammer
Oh, well that changes everything! With 140 you can state complex arguments link to evidence and cite sources! Why we could solve this whole
SirusKing
Or you could type in multiple comments, like
PineappleEmailer
+1 for admitting the flaws in your thinking
TheSaucyCrumpet
I like you.
SirusKing
I did here, which allows for more than 140 characters...
Ihazcheeseburger
I don't like her use of lesbians as if they are ti blame. But there absolutely is a radical wing to midern feminism whose voice at times
Ihazcheeseburger
has become louder than the moderates . Unfortunately this often happens with causes. As the public began to agree with environmentalists 2/?
Ihazcheeseburger
in issues of littering or hunting endangered species, or deforestation, environmentalists had to turn more extreme to maintain a cuase. 3/?
blackwrapper
The thing is a lot of people don't think rape can exist in marriage when it can. MOst of the time no, but some yeah
HeyCasButt
I highly doubt that. People that believe that are in as small a minority as misandrists masquerading as feminists.
QWTFODDBALL
Thats not what she meant and you know it.
blackwrapper
I wasn't saying that, just putting it out there because some people don't realize.
connerfusion
context there is that some radical feminists believe that all hetero sex is rape on the basis of 'patriarchy' being a universal coersion.
blackwrapper
yeah, that is crazy. Gotta love extremists
sendmemesnotdickpics
I don't understand why people keep posting this to imgur. There is no war on men on this website so can we just, i dont know, not?
rngdicebb
Imgur gets a lot of frontpage stuff from Reddit. Reddit has a lot of MRA activity.
rjman101
I warned feminists that this would happen when they started complaining about absurd things. This is the backlash.
Ijustwannachange
Are you sure about that? I've seen a shit ton of misandry here.
shadowex3
I've been stalked and harassed for a WEEK STRAIGHT by feminists on imgur for daring to post proof men are raped in a thread ABOUT male rape.
Lepiment
They're not feminists they are horrible excuses for human beings. Good on you for standing your ground, just ignore these dimwitts
shadowex3
Unfortunately these dimwitts are following people so powerful they have influence to rewrite the definition of rape to exclude men.
shadowex3
This person is a MILD version of what I get on a routine basis:
sendmemesnotdickpics
well hey, legitimately i'm sorry for people like that. They make people who have good intentions like me, have a bad name.
shadowex3
That's not what does it. Compare feminism and people like this to christians and the westboro baptist church. Huge difference in response.
shadowex3
Westboro gets thousands of protestors and can't even get slashed tires fixed. When has anyone ever marched in the streets against misandry?
Washdaytomorrow
Oh dude :/ Looks like you got yourself a white knight there. Some tosspot who thinks bullying is cool if its for the right cause. Comiz.
JenWontShutUp
According to people on Imgur, feminism is obsolete. I got down voted into oblivion for stating the obvious face that women are still >>
shadowex3
Feminists in india blocked a law that would have done nothing more than make it a crime to rape men. Tell those victims they need feminism
JenWontShutUp
oppressed all over the world. Apparently NOT true. Good news for women in Saudi Arabia!
eatingketchupchips
and the same guys downvoting are the guys who post half-naked women, say "girls only like looks" and call themselves "nice guys"
CheeseTacos
Here's the thing; Imgur's main target demographic and that of men's right's groups are... Nearly identical. Depressing, not shocking.
ReptilianOverlord
You could point that out, but the people who live simply to be offended by things would call you an islamophobic racist
McKay91
Feminism is obsolete in the Western.They don't care about the 3rd world, they complain about petty things and demand special treatment.
redrovered
20-25% of college women in the US experience attempted or completed sexual assault before they graduate. But apparently that's fine.
shadowex3
False. 1 in 1870 women are sexually assaulted in college. Not one in FOUR.
redrovered
Not the same stat. Attempted and completed, including estimates for unreported cases. http://www.nsvrc.org/saam/campus-resource-list
McKay91
Yes that's because of the Patriarchy. Women never sexually assault Men. And men never leave it unreported for fear of ridicule.
redrovered
Did I say that? Rape is terrible in any circumstance. There's still tons of work to be done to prevent rape. Feminism is not obsolete.
lithophile
Look at the CEO and board of directors of any company. Count the women. The balance of power sits with the swinging dicks of men
McKay91
Look at the dangerous, dirty jobs, count the Women. Where are the women campaigning for more Female miners? Equal paternity rights?
lithophile
Prostitution sounds dirty and dangerous. Countless women suffer in servitude and shitty jobs just the same as men.
shadowex3
Look at the HOMELESS. Count the number of men. look at workplace deaths. Count the men. Look at college dropouts. Count the men.
lithophile
Many of these sound like issues of poverty, not sexism.
HeyCasButt
That's not really a valid metric because even though discrimination might play a part in that there are way to many confounding(1)
HeyCasButt
Variables that are being ignored.(2)
JenWontShutUp
AN IDEOLOGY IS NOT AN OBJECT IT CANNOT BECOME OBSOLETE THERE IS SAID IT.
McKay91
An idea can become obsolete. There I said it. Feminism achieved its goals back in the 70s.
JenWontShutUp
Great! I'll get on the phone with Saudi Arabia and tell them it's all good.
iPretend
Lol I'm a macho man. I can't be destroyed by women. They're women for goodness sakes!
tarataqa
http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/Rottenecards_538785100_2wk3d5y4ct.png
WeiYanZhuo
Relevant but not immediately apparently so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU_VBBp7tRs
SexyAlexanderHamiltonOhWaitThatIsJustNormalHamilton
I gave a Jimmy Carr laugh to this.
InboxMeYourOwls
I like my men like I like beards...MANLY.
YouCantKeepJetpackingAwayFromYourProblemsBrian
MACHO MACHO MAAAAAAN I WANT TO BE A MACHO MA-AN!
YouCantKeepJetpackingAwayFromYourProblemsBrian
I don't know if those are the actual song lyrics it's just what I sang as a kid
BigAZNMan
I'm a nacho man. So leave me alone
driveslikejamesmay
pbbbtMeg
A man so macho he wear pink and yellow spandex pants
Caffynated
Man walks down the street in pants like that, people know he's not afraid of anything.
OriginalSubZero
OOOOHHHHHHH YEEEEEAAAAA!!!!
namelesscynic
Go with the first one.
shadowex3
Yes let's go with the circular argument that literally says "If you don't 100% agree with me you're a sexist monster"
namelesscynic
Or you can go with the circular argument that says "If you disagree with me, you're either a lesbian or a gullible male." Your choice.
shadowex3
Or you can be aware of the fact shes referring to specific historical feminist leaders who were political-lesbian seperatists
namelesscynic
You can further be aware that she's referring to a minority that has never led the argument, being primarily used as strawmen by opponents.
shadowex3
You can also be aware of the fact that a straw man is by definition a misrepresentation or falsehood, not a real thing that really existed.
shadowex3
Or you can be aware of the fact those people were literally the *LEADERS* of the feminist movement for decades.
sendmemesnotdickpics
Just to be clear, I've never met a woman who is a feminist who hates men cause feminist believe in equal rights. That's Misandry.
shadowex3
Just to be clear that's the dictionary definition of a No True Scotsman fallacy. Now go read Amanda Marcotte and Jezebel.
DisgruntledFerret
You literally just said that even if you met one, you wouldn't consider them to be such! "There are no super-fast cats; those are cheetahs."
sendmemesnotdickpics
cuz the definition of feminism is to believe in equalrights 4 men &women. If you don't &believe women are the better sex ur not a feminist.
DisgruntledFerret
The definition of a feminist is a women's rights supporter. Moving the definition to exclude the crazies is a bit intellectually dishonest.
sendmemesnotdickpics
I just had to type that really weird, but I hope you get what i'm trying to say. hahha
Postmoderngrey
You've never met a feminist who hates men is because you change the definition to misandry? I've never met a feminist who wanted equality.
haterstotheleft
You've never met a feminist.
Postmoderngrey
This is the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. There are feminists you don't believe in equality. Those aren't feminists.
sendmemesnotdickpics
Well you met me! I love men and just wish women could be treated the same in society, economically, ect. Lets be friends now. :)
Postmoderngrey
I'd be happy to be friends but you can't exactly say that we've met yet. Do you feel they should start giving women the same jail times?
sendmemesnotdickpics
well if you commit the same crime then of course you should get the same sentence.
Postmoderngrey
You would think so. But, currently less jail time for the same crime is one of many perks of being female. This word count sucks.
Postmoderngrey
I come off sounding too snide because of the short messages. I'm not meaning to be hostile. I've just seen feminism do bad things.
catastronomer
The fact that she calls women hysterical in the second picture is pretty archaic to me.
Malkiot
I find women to be more emotional than me... then again most men too. Comparatively you're all (other people) hysterical.
thejadefalcon
You can call people hysterical without being sexist about it, you know.
haterstotheleft
The term "hysterical" was literally created to shut women up. Notice how psychology doesn't use it anymore, because it's kinda archaic.
thejadefalcon
And the word gay didn't used to mean homosexual. Meanings change. Hysterical isn't a term specific to women any more. It doesn't mean (1)
haterstotheleft
what's part (2)? I MUST know!
thejadefalcon
"cut out her womb, it'll stop her crying" it means someone is excessively, uncontrollably emotional, regardless of gender.
haterstotheleft
well, anyway, I get (part 1 of) what you're saying. But, different words can bear different weight. That one's not widely used, so (1/2)
haterstotheleft
(2/2) it still carries some emotional salience.
shadowlev
She's making straw man arguments. The stereotype that all american feminists are manhating, hysterical lesbians is just that. A stereotype.
WeiYanZhuo
A few quotes as a source: http://www.womenagainstmen.com/media/feminism-is-a-hate-group.html
shadowex3
It's not a stereotype when people can't even talk about fighting suicide with feminists committing felonies to shut the conference down.
AHorticulturistIsJustANerdyGardener
You're straw manning her statements. She said nothing of the sort.
gopms
I always wonder who will break it to my husband (of many years) that I secretly hate him. Boy, is he going to be shocked!
permafrostjack
If he got a woman to like him enough to marry him, he's probably a feminist too. I wouldn't worry too much. XD (yes I did get the joke).
YouWillNotLikeThis
#notallfeminists
WeiYanZhuo
Sadly, there are respected feminists who say all consensual heterosexual sex is rape and men should be eliminated or mostly so.
cobragrunt
Well then let us men folk gather up our drawers and colonize Europa. We will clone the best of our lots and do as we will. Spartan Europa!!!
grackle
By "respected feminists" do you mean "that one out of context quote by Andrea Dworkin"? Because I think you do. And that shit is weak.
Malvorlagen
She doesn't say that. She says that Feminism was taken over by American lesbians, not that all American feminists are lesbians
pgdave
Yes, which isn't true, hence the strawman.
JenWontShutUp
Which is also not true. So there's that.
grackle
Haha, yeah. Please OP, clarify! Which totally fucking wrong thing is she saying?
benl90
She then goes to make a generalization that american lesbians hate men. This is still a broad generalization that is both unfair and untrue.
opad
She's a British Porn star. She can fuck herself. She's never lived her, I doubt she's in the USA lesbian scene. She's 1/2
opad
Sorry- She worked in Brussels as a sex worker.Sonia Verstappen. Nice source OP. Maybe I can find a gangster in Belgium and get life advice.
opad
continuing her career of faking shit to make men feel good.
hencethequeef
As an American lesbian, fuck off. I'm not a misandrist. I live with a straight male friend. I don't think sex is rape. I support safe BDSM.
Wastyvez
Comprehensive reading: do you know how? The woman didn't say all american lesbians are man-hating feminists. Just that the movement has 1)
Wastyvez
taken over by man-hating feminists. The reason they're lesbian is because they're misandrist, not the other way around. 2)
hencethequeef
"...has been taken over by American lesbians, who don't exactly like men." I'd have to see the sauce to know if that's how she phrased it>
YouWillNotLikeThis
#notalllesbians
NotSoMuch
Plus, she implies that American lesbians are all hysterical man-haters, which isn't even close to true.
jsktrogdor
Imgurians sure love to play fast and loose with the word "implies" when they want someone to say something that they did not.
sildraug
All of the lesbians I've met who have been public about it were completely reasonable people. The manhaters were all hetero, oddly enough.
YouWillNotLikeThis
#notalllesbians
mrlemonofbanana
No, she doesn't. "[...], who don't exactly like men." is not a statement, it's more of an adjective. Like: "American men, who are gay".
cobragrunt
If anything they like straight men as friends. But its like cats and dogs between them and gay men. Some get along, some dont.
Lambtastic
If you understand what feminism actually is then you would call yourself a feminist too.
DeusExMundus
Unless you get called a "jackass who doesn't know what he's talking about" everytime you claim to be a feminist, just due to being a man.
shadowex3
If feminism handled it's extremists the same way christians handle the WBC I wouldn't have a problem with it. Instead they enable them.
ShamnusMcfee
If you understood what feminism is, you wouldn't be saying that.
haterstotheleft
Wikipedia is your friend.
Lambtastic
I actually do, I don't think you do
ToastyMozart
I wholeheartedly agree with the ideals of feminism, but I would never use the term to describe myself because it's being used by assholes.
GreenTeaParty
Assholes would like to have you think that.
rwidebrant
So is the name of every other group in the world. There are assholes who call themselves everything from humanist to jain to satanist.
ToastyMozart
But most groups are a lot quicker to tell those extremists to go fuck themselves. You get regular muslims calling the Jihadists idiots (1)
ToastyMozart
all the time, but little of that has been done against these morons, and the S.S.Feminism has taken on too much water to ever float again(2)
rwidebrant
That's simply not the case. And you can't compare people spouting vile opinions to ones killing fellow humans.
Lambtastic
So you're a feminist who won't say they're a feminist because dickheads make up shit about feminists.
ToastyMozart
*Because there are too many awful people who get away with calling themselves feminists. That and I don't like using group labels in general
Lambtastic
Isn't that Ellen Page's point though
Lambtastic
Who are the awful people who say they're feminists? I hope you don't think I'm coming off as aggressive. unfortunately we can't sense tone
ToastyMozart
A portion of tumblr is the usual example, Then there are the "eye rape" people, stuff like that. I agree it's a minority, but I just (1)
ToastyMozart
this guy!" Then regardless of the validity of your point, nobody wants to listen to someone accompanied by someone like that (4)
ToastyMozart
It's the "man covered in shit" argument; if you take a stand for something, then some man covered in shit steps up and says "I'm with (3)
ToastyMozart
think that (especially with the current reputation) it's harder to get your ideas taken seriously if people group you with the bad side. (2)
Randomcomma
(1) Oh, this shit again. Saw Ellen Page being awesome. Then I saw that that there was another picture and I KNEW it was time for Imgur's
Randomcomma
(2) hourly anti-feminist strawman circlejerk. This community is so depressing.
Wastyvez
Except Imgur is overwhelmingly (pro-)feminist once you get out of usersub.
CheeseTacos
So basically... Any given day that ends in "y" lately. Obviously to combat all the extreme feminist factions here...
Randomcomma
The fact that you never see them just proves how cunning they can be!
PrairieSquid
I'm a misandry ninja, maaan.
HeyCasButt
Just a curious observation I've made. All the images that I see regarding feminism are all strawmen, but the only comments I see that are(1)
permafrostjack
We have a surplus of entitled jerks here. The shitposting I read sometimes would get you laughed at in Cracked and banned in Somethingawful.
HeyCasButt
The comments that then tears the image apart as fallacy(3)
Randomcomma
You're right about the comments being definitely mostly positive. The upvote/downvote-bar still tells another story about majority opinions.
HeyCasButt
I know, it's just an interesting dynamic
HeyCasButt
In the positives are supporting feminism. So it just strikes me as odd that the community upvotes this shit images but the supports(2)
shadowex3
As opposed to it's minute by minute misandrist ranting about neckbeards, betas, privilege, and MRA bashing?
Randomcomma
(1) We must be visiting a different Imgur then. Only the two first of those lists generate posts. We've disagreed about the neckbeard thing
Randomcomma
(2) before and for the beta shit you can blame 4chan. Probably an attitude not mutually exclusive with anti-feminism.
shadowex3
drawn portraying them as some kind of infectious disease to be eradicated and passed on by contact with the "untouchables".
shadowex3
Neckbeard/dudebro/creeper/beta are all virginshaming slurs popularized and used most often by feminists, to the point of getting comics
Randomcomma
(2) often the last two, because dudebro I've mostly seen used in gaming communities and beta is definitely 4chan trash.
Randomcomma
(1) Neckbeard and creeper include other traits that are *actually* harmful. I'm very skeptical about feminists popularizing and using most
CpnCanada
When talking about feminist philosophy, please avoid ad hominem attacks regarding the composition of the feminist community and (1/2)
QWTFODDBALL
Oh avoid ad hominem attacks like the 500 or so feminists on this post who accuse anyone disagreeing with them of being 14 year old rapists?
shadowex3
When defending feminism please avoid framing every single thing as an attack with straw victimhood, and the use of no true scotsmans.
eatingketchupchips
i smell a white boy
CpnCanada
stop misrepresenting arguments based on the opinions of the vocal minority. Instead be conscious of how women are still treated (2/3)
connerfusion
1the 'vocal minority' of feminism are the only ones who ever seem to act under the label, are the ones who abuse gov't funding and lobbying,
CpnCanada
unequally. Be conscious of when this occurs and do your part to promote awareness and promote healthy, equal interactions. I'm a dude. 3/3
haterstotheleft
The fact that you have to justify your perspective with "I'm a dude" makes me sad.
CpnCanada
I guess I didn't have to but thought it was worth pointing out to head off potentially irrational people saying I was some "bad feminist"
connerfusion
2 and are never called out by the 'moderate' majority, who's idea of feminism seems to be sharing articles of the 'extremists' on facebook.
CpnCanada
Good points. I don't have an argument against this except that I am speaking of the philosophy of female equality as feminism.
yikesaroni
presenting some corners of tumblr as exhibit A of feminist extremism is not an ad hominem attack, sorry
yikesaroni
they do a pretty great job of insulting themselves.
CpnCanada
but posting it on imgur promotes those opinions so my response to it is still relevant.
iLiketoTravel
Every time I state anything about wanting equality for ladies, all I get is a shit storm of men saying "but what about our problems!?"
jsktrogdor
It's almost as if feminism has done such a terrible job of promoting real equality that it's served to divide the genders even more.
NewHate
Equality is nonsense anyways. It's justice you want. Imagine everyone'd treated equally, people with mental disabilities would be screwed.
NewHate
Equality is nonsense. It's justice you want. Imagine if everyone was treated equally, handicapped people would be fucked in that world.
toomanyusernamesaretaken
Apparently those people think it's a competition. Which is dumb.
Scutterbotch
That's because we're lucky enough to live in countries where the majority of inequal atrocities against women have been eradicated (1/2)
Ijustwannachange
Women's issue are more important that men's issues. Do they actually think there's a greater focus on women's issues in society than men's?
Ijustwannachange
*this comment is hyperbole and sarcasm.
Gdan79
"Equality for ladies" shouldn't be a thing. It should just be equality. Equality for both genders. All equal.
bumblebeehedgehogfish
It is just equality. Equality for ladies compared to men is also equality for men, that's what equality means.
faintpremonition
If you're on top, stay on top.
shadowex3
Here's an example: Men are barely 1/3rd of college graduates. Women are NOT a majority in every single major. Which is a bigger problem?
Scutterbotch
(2/2) when you've got the basics down, you can worry about more complex stuff, like mens rights - men feel like now is the right time.
InactiveBanana
men are wrong
Scutterbotch
very helpful, thanks for your intelligent and constructive input.
InactiveBanana
http://imgur.com/dLBIdgj
IamJustGoingToSayExactlyWhatiAmThinking
the right time for men has been all of human history. giving women a few decades to barely get caught up doesn't mean everythings all good.
InactiveBanana
Just send them this http://imgur.com/dLBIdgj
iLiketoTravel
Absolutely brilliant! Saved for future use :D
citoyenne
You should check out the full twitter account, it's amazing: https://twitter.com/ProBirdRights
shadowex3
Feminists actively sought out and committed felonies to shut down a suicide prevention conference, purely because it would help men.
InactiveBanana
I doubt the validity of that statement, MRA's bend the truth and by bend I mean completely twist the facts aand misuse statistics, but
shadowex3
You mean like feminist researchers specifically defining rape to exclude male victims of female rapists? Or the 1 in 4 and 77cent myths?
InactiveBanana
even if that were true, saying those feminists represent all Feminists would be like saying the WBC represents all Christians
InactiveBanana
You guys are so quick to say "not all men" but you really have trouble grasping this concept.
shadowex3
Death threats, bomb threats, violent crime against people even trying to TALK about men's issues? Erasure, justification, and libel.
shadowex3
Feminist response to Mary Koss erasing half of all rape victims? Silence. Earl's shelter being attacked by other feminists? Silence.
shadowex3
Christian response to WBC: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/07/westboro-church-protesters-confronted-by-zombies/
ourari
Maybe just say you want equality for both men and women? I'm sure there are rights and advantages that women have and men men want, too.
loki36
as a man I very rarely find feminist views that tackle equality without blaming/generalising men.It makes it hard for me not to be defensive
grackle
Empty statements about wanting equality for all don't help. It's when you actually discuss the issues that the reactionaries come out.
shadowex3
Like not being 70-90% of the homeless, over 90% of suicides and workplace deaths, 15 times more likely to go to jail for the same time...
iLiketoTravel
Of course I do, but it seems like whenever women's come up, suddenly we need to focus on men's instead. Or women's issues are marginalized.
shadowex3
without felonies being committed just to silence them. Men aren't even legally counted as rape victims for god's sake.
shadowex3
Women's issues aren't marginalized, they dominate every single aspect of our lives and media to the point men can't even meet to talk
SeeHowItGoes
Wanting equality for ladeis doesn't mean you don't want improvements on men's issues too.
shadowex3
Then why do the people who most claim to want equality for women go so far out of their way to actively harm men that they commit felonies?
SeeHowItGoes
I hope you find out that that's a very small minority at some stage.
shadowex3
The WBC is a minority. These people are a majority. They have the power to act without opposition or rebuke and even get laws passed.
shadowex3
Minorities, by definition, do not get away with doing things the majority opposes without a shred of opposition or rebuke.
iLiketoTravel
I do want that, but it seems to me that we can't ever talk about women's issues without suddenly needing to focus on men's. So frustrating.
SeeHowItGoes
I know. The idea that the two are mutually exclusive baffles me. "I'd like pancakes" "BUT I WANT CAKE< HOW DARE YOU!" Wat.
iLiketoTravel
I mean, do you see why it's so frustrating for us/me? Every time we bring it up, it's just a shite storm. I would feel better 3
iLiketoTravel
Are completely baffled by statistics or just in general refuse to even try and understand why we feel this way. 2
iLiketoTravel
If people used reputable sources when arguing too. Ok, hah, sorry. End rant. x 4
Unicornzebraunderwear
Absolutely but, at the same time, it's a gender discussion and there is a lot of overlap on men's and women's issues so when women's issues1
Unicornzebraunderwear
things like equal pay statistics can be looked at in several ways and if you include or exclude certain factors it changes the result so 3
Unicornzebraunderwear
two separate but perfectly credible statisticians or organizations can come up with entirely different results.4 End rant.
Unicornzebraunderwear
are discussed it often times involves things men care about from a different perspective, and as has been mentioned here in regards to 2
iLiketoTravel
Of course they're not. But when can women's issues be acknowledged without them being marginalized? I get a lot of men who 1
shadowex3
Because women not being an overwhelming majorit of every single major is marginal compared to men barely graduating from college.
shadowex3
Because, to be cruelly mathematical, for every 1 woman that dies more than 10 men die.
shadowex3
Because women having a rude boss is marginal compared to men being 90% of the people who die just trying to put food on the table.
alake
I don't know what we are really gaining from having these arguments about semantics over and over again.
GreenTeaParty
this is the first post I've seen on the other side of the argument in a long time- so it's good in my book.
Najda
Because arguing about the semantics distracts us from the real problems at hand.
SingingMeAndCthulioDownByRlyehFhtagn
We are all covered in semantics, aren't we.
itsawerewolfbarmitzvah
It's an endless hunt for confirmation bias. On both sides.
Butane9000
A better understanding of who among us are douchebags and who are trying to make the world a better place.
SamMan
We're not having to discuss the real issues which are hard and difficult to solve.
AncalagontheBlack
People opposed to the idea will always emphasize the extremist voices, while supporters will apply no true Scotsman to them.
Rayxor
Excuse me, no true Scotsperson*
ImpavidumFeriuntRuinae
I like you
PAGlNGDRFAGGOT
Absolutely nothin.
LivinInFuckCity
what are you some kind of anti-semanticist?
Guest02384
Are you saying you're...Anti-Semantic?
greatthingswillcomeofthis
I guess having arguments about semantics over and over and over again is just what we do now
FbManFA
welcome to politics
captainfuckmuppet
Can you run for president?
eronth
if people are arguing semantics, then maybe there is problem? I always treat everyone equal., but won't be called feminist due to extremism
FloodingWaters
I got a copyright claim on all semantic arguments. I get a nickel every time!
FloodingWaters
i'm rich biotch
WeiYanZhuo
Because many feminists are insistent on using that word to label gender equal rights activists.
AssassinsWeed
Because religion is not the only patent holder for the invention of tribalism.
murphygriffen
BECAUSE you find "man" in semantics.
AThiefOfTime
Imgur is a great place for discussing feminism, especially when you only have one hundred and forty characters to type out your thoughts wit
sanitypotion
I see what you did th
AThiefOfTime
Not that I don't think feminism should be discussed, but it does often devolve into shitty arguments here.
Rodvitner
No serious matter should be discussed when you have so few characters, even without limitation discussing in only text-format is terrible.
JamMasterBox
It shouldn't be discussed on a site primarily meant for funny and adorable shit either. (And sometimes creepy shit.)
intranetexplorer
davemaison
don't be silly, its much more than semantics. this argument is the same as what separates all christians from the westboro baptist church
shadowex3
The difference is the WBC can't even get slashed tires repaired. Feminists who commit felonies get defended online.
davemaison
you understand that was just a comparison to demonstrate why its important to differentiate groups right?
shadowex3
You understand the point is that one group tacitly condones violent criminals and then refuses to do anything about them?
davemaison
you've missed the point of even bringing up the wbc
alake
How far do those separations really help us? Shouldn't we be more concerned with the ideas/policies involved?
davemaison
the ideas and policies get overshadowed by the extremism of the few. Remember the prejudice towards muslims after 9/11? Same concept.
alake
This seems like a reason we should be more concerned with the ideas/policies involved rather than semantics.
davemaison
the crazy man-haters have different ideas/policies than feminists, but they go by the same name & make it appear that's how they all think
djzapz
What would we gain if we shot arguments around if the semantics can't even stick in the first place? We're stuck at semantics, quite simply.
alake
I understand, but there are work arounds. E.g., debating wage disparity can be done w/o the labels "feminism/humanism/etc."
djzapz
People like to define themselves. And even then when you start arguing with a new person, you have to set up the bases. It never stops.
alake
I think discussions could be a lot more productive if we didn't set up the bases, and instead just talked about the issues.
djzapz
If we all agreed on things that'd work. But we don't, so doing that means we get lost because we define concepts differently.
notmicrowavesafe
Once you bring up the term feminism it turns into a debate involving anecdotal evidence and stereotypes. It's silly really.
faintpremonition
That's because you always wind up arguing with women.
notmicrowavesafe
I can smell your butthurt from here... hot damn.
Jafro
This is precisely the reason that "feminism is a bad word" as Ellen said. It actually has nothing to do with patriarchs whatsoever.
notmicrowavesafe
Yes and no. One could attribute the fear to the patriarchy but then there's some chicken-egg philosophy that needs discussion.
sanitypotion
And strawmen, don't forget strawmen.
abowersock
*Straw women.
disgr4ce
*Strawperson.
notmicrowavesafe
Aw hell yeah, both the angry hippie feminist and the neckbearded men's rights activists. Both one-track minded asshats that mock each other.
Euin
Even the word Feminism itself is sexist. Call it humanism or simply equality if thats what youre after
namelesscynic
"Humanism" and "equality" both fail to distinguish between sexism and racism. They're different (although similar) problems.
Catfactory
Feminism is a form of egalitarianism - it's not called egalitarianism because it targets the patriarchy
PwnageHobo
I think a feminist is just a humanist who has noticed the lack of gender equality.
ImOblivious
There's lack of gender equality on both sides. There are a lot of women who believe empowerment comes through playing the victim.
ImOblivious
Male rape is a real thing, yet it gets ignored. Husband abuse is a thing, yet gets ignored. What has feminism done for those issues?
permafrostjack
Fucks sake. How many times must I tell you people this? You ARE NOT important enough to change the name of a whole movement. Stop trying.
Euin
Im not important enough? Wow all for the female cause innit
permafrostjack
You are one person. There are a few more people involved and they don't agree with you. Simple Maths.
Euin
A lot of people do agree with me thou, and youre losing respect all over the world because of raging manhaters
permafrostjack
Do the majority of feminists agree with you? It's not your call. Also, considering the sort of people whose "respect" is being "lost"...
adhominem
Fun fact: most gays are born from heterosexual-like sex.
UsePNGnotJPEG
What's "heterosexual-like sex"? Isn't it heterosexual or not?
adhominem
It's straight sex + gay sex + not sure if sex + anything content sex + adults with consent.
NewHate
Or instead go for justice for everyone instead. Pic says it all. http://kathyescobar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/equality-vs-justice.jpg
WeiYanZhuo
Why I don't call myself a feminist or a men's rights activist/masculinist.
AThiefOfTime
Feminism and egalitarianism are not mutually exclusive terms, I believe in both.
westw0od
Actually, the word is Antisexism.
witchzenka
Right. And gay right is anti-straight. Except it's not. It's about fixing an existing inequality. It's naming the inequality.
Euin
Yes but there is no heterosexual injustice. But there IS male injustice even if the word feminism ignores that
witchzenka
Added to that a lot of specific male inequities are part and parcel of the patriarchal system feminism is working to change, so BS.
Euin
It isnt bullshit, its just ignored, theres plenty of examples of male injustice (very often caused by feminism) in my country alone
witchzenka
Aha. I see. But I'm on this planet, so that's really all I got to go on.
witchzenka
It doesn't ignore that. How weird to think that we must focus on everything all the time. It's an important focus.
Euin
The purpose may not, but the word feminist itself means female which makes it a bad word to use for equality
witchzenka
It does not mean "female", though it is intended to point out a specific inequity. So no, it's not. No more than saying you're an LGBQ ally-
VILLAINihaveDONEthymother
Or maybe the point of the movement is to bring women/femininity up & treated well instead of taking men/masculinity down and treated badly.
QWTFODDBALL
Fine, but don't pretend an organization with that goal is for gender equality. It is for the promotion of women specifically.
VILLAINihaveDONEthymother
Hm, no man has ever had a feminine quality he was shamed for? No trans* person ever got hurt for mixing in femininity? Just for women. Sure.
QWTFODDBALL
What you just said doesn't seem to have anything to do with what we were talking about.
VILLAINihaveDONEthymother
Women are not inferior+being feminine is not a bad thing=feminism. Some men have feminine traits, and that's fine, because femininity is OK
SometimesYouJustNeedTo
Maybe we should argue semantics over the term, but rather embrace the fundamentals of the movement and try to be less fucking shitty.
faintpremonition
As of this comment 115 points for misusing "humanism" and being unaware of the word "egalitarianism."
Lambtastic
the word isn't sexist, it's bringing women equal to men in all respects; cultural, political, economical, reproductive rights, equal pay etc
faintpremonition
Equality doesn't make sense when men and women are fundamentally different. Parity makes more sense.
Lambtastic
Ok so if we work at the same job do you think it's ok that for the last hr and a half women work for free and men get paid? I don't
faintpremonition
How is that parity?
piggypiglet
If that were true 'child' support would be banned and women would be digging ditches and working longer hours while dying younger etc. FFS.
QWTFODDBALL
The presumption that the only thing that needs to be done to achieve equality is to elevate women is where the whole idea becomes sexist.
Lambtastic
it's not just women it's also the LGBTQ community and men. Traditional gender roles can be damaging to both sexes.
Scutterbotch
so you don't care about bringing men equal to women?
Lambtastic
So you don't understand that men have more rights than women, yeah?
Scutterbotch
there are breast cancer screening programs for women, but nothing for testicular or prostate cancer. Paternity leave for men. (1/2)
hencethequeef
There are cancer screenings for testicular and prostate cancer. Did you think doctors were sticking their fingers up there for funsies?
Scutterbotch
(2/2) Male genital mutilation. Even tho women are more oppressed, it doesn't mean oppression against men doesn't eixst. Don't be ignorant.
Lambtastic
There are screenings and check ups for all cancers, all=so female genital mutilation is far more prevalent. Also some men have an issue with
connerfusion
I don't believe that women are more oppressed, or oppressed at all in the west. the female equiv. of every male issue is prevented by law
IceCreamButtholes
I could name dozens of situations where women are disadvantaged. There's only a few where men are treated lesser.
Lambtastic
other men taking leave , it happened recently when a baseball player took a game off to be new baby and commentators when nuts
hencethequeef
Also, I'm against circumcision and for paternity leave. (Though maternity leave is necessarily longer because of breastfeeding.)
TastyButts
My problem with that is it might forget the history. Also, why are we so reluctant to be associated with feminine words?
QWTFODDBALL
Straw man. We aren't. What we are reluctant to be associated with is an organization that promotes the welfare of a particular gender.
eatingketchupchips
Should Muslim's change their religion title because Al Queda also calls themselves Muslims? No, because you should be able to separate the 2
QWTFODDBALL
We are talking about why people don't jump on board with feminism, not why feminism doesn't denounce its radical element.
eatingketchupchips
i know, and most sane people understand the majority of muslims are not terrorist. just as the majority of feminists are not misandrists
Euin
We arent but the name sounds extremely pro female, which automaticly becomes anti male.
TastyButts
According to who? Why all the competition?
Euin
Feminism = Feminin = Female
TastyButts
So? Why does acknowledging one, dismisses the other? I guess the bigger question is: Why are we insulted by femininity/masculinity?
realskramz
Do you think the LGBT movement is anti-heterosexual?
Euin
As I said before thats not relevant since there is no heterosexual injustice
shadowlev
That's because the movement started when women were treated like objects.
Irishda
Still are
piggypiglet
Unlike those walking wallets we treat as cannon fodder?
grackle
Oh, you mean the men who are sent by other men to kill other men? It's just awful what those feminists are forcing everyone to do!
piggypiglet
And you call that patriarchy? How do you feel about FGM? Most of the cutters are other women, so that's alright is it? See how that works?
grackle
My point is that it's not the fault of feminism that men send men to war, or that men think only men are capable of fighting.
realskramz
Are you seriously comparing how bad women had in the past to men?
piggypiglet
Which past are we talking about? The 99% of human history where men couldn't vote either? The 100% of female hypergamy? Grow up.
scarecrowe94
Just playing devils advocate here but
shadowlev
Seeing as how they could vote, hold jobs, and own land, I think they had a few more opportunities than women.
piggypiglet
As a voter, do you feel powerful? Really? As a job holder, how's the power? And owning land has historically been the tiny elite, not "men"
Lambtastic
women still are
QWTFODDBALL
Oh come off it.
Ijustwannachange
PEOPLE still are.
JenWontShutUp
Yeah I hate the argument that it should be called egalitarianism. Until women all around the world are equal, it still needs to be "fem."
MassDebating
No, because while it is "fem" many women will take it as a fight for women not for equality. It was "fem" when women were oppressed hugely.
JenWontShutUp
Women are still oppressed. It is still a fight for women. Feminism exists outside of America.
JenWontShutUp
Women are oppressed and marginalised all over the world.
JenWontShutUp
TIL people don't think women are oppressed in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.
MassDebating
I am outside America, and oppression now is happening mainly in the middle east against different religious groups not bc of gender.
LonLonRanchDressing
it's true. in some countries, it still needs to be called feminism. but in the US I think it's about time we make a more equal term
permafrostjack
Not while I can turn on my TV and see an ad for a hamburger with a half naked woman in it. As if she was just decoration. That's fucked up.
QWTFODDBALL
Of all the things to give a shit about.
eatingketchupchips
yea basic human rights are so unnecessary.
LonLonRanchDressing
yea. and my point is we need to stop treating women as sexual objects but we also need to stop assuming the only way to get a man to (1)
LonLonRanchDressing
buy a hamburger is to put something sexual in it. there is sexism both ways, and if we focus on treating it as such, we will have both (2)
RexLion
The word feminism sounds like adherents don't care about racism or homophobia, just sexual equality. Probably not the intention, but still.
Randomcomma
The word "construction worker" sounds like they don't care about human rights issues. Probably not the intention, but still.
RexLion
If someone were to use "humanist" or "egalitarian", "feminist" would be redundant, as it's already implied.
Randomcomma
That's like saying that just using the word "science" would make the word "physics" redundant.
RexLion
If someone is called a physicist, it is safe to assume they do not do biology professionally. Or they would call themselves something else.
witchzenka
It's targeting a specific inequity. If I am focused on the lack of groceries, it doesn't mean I don't care about the lack of clean socks.
RexLion
I know it doesn't. I was just saying; that's how it sounds. and why not target inequality in general?
witchzenka
It just means I've picked a specific target to work on at this moment.
tastelesshuman
Egalitarianism is the word you are looking for.
catsonmeth
Last time I said that i ended up with -8 and my head on the wall of the red keep.
TheOneWhoWasLeft
Egalitarianism is the bigger term for equality, though. It doesn't concern itself with gender disparity in particular.
jsktrogdor
Sounds perfect.
RWR2288
Even better, because we need far more equality for race and sexual preference
LezgoNecro
Nor does the word "humanism."
TheOneWhoWasLeft
Did anyone say it did? (Really, I connect "humanism" to the realm of the metaphysical, philosophical...?)
nelshai
Yes it does.
TheOneWhoWasLeft
It does, *but* *not* *in particular*. Feminism is specialised egalitarianism, so to speak.
nelshai
Which has negative connotations due to many disusing the term as well as entire generation of thought that is misandric in nature.
Wastyvez
Egalitarianism concerns itself with all forms of equality, which is why it's twice more suitable for achieving gender equality than feminism
TheOneWhoWasLeft
Because it's always better to go for wholesale world peace than to work on more manageable, smaller issues?
Wastyvez
Because anyone who strives for "equality" only because it's in their own interest is a hypocrite.
Wastyvez
So why is it more important to only focus on genders, on which there has been immense progress in the west, rather than sexuality, 2)
Wastyvez
You need to look at the bigger picture when it comes to equality. If you're pro-equality, you ought to believe all humans are equals. 1)
Wastyvez
socio-economical situations or ethnicity, on which there has not. 3)