FeckArseDrink
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Source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZuL_2hUaoI
ZeroRelevancy
Will always upvote anything related to raising awareness for depression.
Blackd0nuts
And I always upvote good advices by Ron Weasley
kojenk
The main point and aim should be actual emotional stability, not an emotionless MarlboroMan stereotype supressing himself until he explodes
Warple
Ron Weasley makes some very good points.
JenkHankins
Went looking for this comment. Thank you.
Live4lifelegit
Internet culture really doesn't help. I mean the fact that sucide is a joke and is thrown around all the time
potatoardvarkhybrid
Josh Thomas
SP4RF
K
slightlyhotcontents
Please Like Me - I highly recommend watching it those who haven't yet. Bloody brilliant. Funny, touching, thought provoking.
MadeInPoland
!
zagz1073
If I could upvote this a million times... It's one of my favorite shows.
ToBitchOrNotToBitch
.
TheChandrian
How old is it?
ivegottwolegs
2013-Present. It's good! It's on Hulu in the States.
IDoNotHaveAMiddleName
Fuck these arbitrary gender roles
MyExistence
They're not exactly arbitrary, men cry less often because of biological and hormonal differences. Though it sucks we refuse to talk bout it
IDoNotHaveAMiddleName
By "role" I don't mean biological differences, I mean the standards society sets for what behaviour is acceptable for your gender.
BanKenobi
the last pic looks so sad
mossythecat
Ctrl C+V'd suicide hotlines: United States of America: 1-800-273-TALK (8255) . United Kingdom: 08457 909090 . Japan: 03 5774 0992
itsthevoiceman
I don't try to talk to people about my problems because I feel like no one actually gives a shit about them. That I'm "just complaining."
MusculusSternocleidomastoideus
Depends how you talk about them. I myself can easily talk about my feelings, but I don't do it in a pathetic way (you know, with such a 1/
eadanke
You could join a men's support group... if those weren't also vilified that is.
MusculusSternocleidomastoideus
people are much less likely to see you as pathetic and are much more likely to talk about your problems. 3/3
ularg
I'm the same way. I have to bottle everything up. And if I slip out a "I'm not okay" I feel guilty and "attention seeking" for doing so.
MusculusSternocleidomastoideus
long boring intonation or acting all crying like). I cry when the problem is there, afterwards I tell others in a normal way. That way, 2/
TheOlsenTwins
Oh my God, woman, would you just quit your whining already?!
soporificnocha
I mean.. For all I know this might be sarcasm. But isn't that right there like the exact problem?
TheOlsenTwins
Nobody here understand humour?!
balthcat
Jokes can sometimes shore up stifling societal stereotypes. Humour can be a gamble.
rexzeer
#2 cause of deaths for males age 10-35 is suicide only surpassed by accidents. With self driving cars on the horizon it'll be #1 soon enough
somewordstypedout
Yeah, men tend to choose more lethal methods for suicide than women so they're more likely to complete.
rexzeer
http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/
SoftwareChef
Holy shit, I need to start my cardio stuff NOW.
hammyhamm
Watch "Please Like Me", his TV series. Very good
cindel
What's his name?
therpsichore
I love it, a nice slice of Australian life and young (and old, his parents!) people trying to navigate their life with humor
combatDroid
I was there when they did this in rockhampton. Was sitting 3 rows in was great
DiseasedCurtains
Holy shit... ARE YOU ME!?
combatDroid
I am a future you... stay away from corn chips
DiseasedCurtains
But what if I have an insatiable desire for corn chips!?
SoftwareChef
Where is Rockhampton?
rajetic
East coast of Australia, north of Brisbane.
SoftwareChef
So, it's an Aussie show?
rajetic
Yep. Josh is Australian and it was on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's show Q&A.
UnderTheYellowBrickRoad
Point is people have feelings and shouldn't be reprimanded because they show them.
awholelotofnothin
This applies to all adults - they aren't allowed to show real feelings. My sick grandmother is shamed and apologizes when she cries.
awholelotofnothin
Men who show emotions other than happiness or anger are called gay. Women who show emotions besides happiness are called crazy.
nagellak
And both are called weak.
flowseeker
Sometimes I'm glad I'm an introvert. I don't know who the hell I would talk to if I needed that.
ninmonkey
I'm just like that too, but never talking makes things worse.
ScourgeOf
Being introverted doesn't mean you never need to vent. If doing so with others seems troublesome, know that writing it down also helps :)
SoftwareChef
Well, you're free to talk to me.
Galliut
Did some Buzzfeed article tell you you're an "introvert"?
flowseeker
No, the fact that I'm a generally a self contained person tells me I'm an introvert.
Galliut
So... A Buzzfeed-type quiz?
flowseeker
Lol is that how you learned what introvert means?
MyExistence
Why are you glad to be an introvert? I'm extremely extroverted and when I was having suicidal thoughts in my teens I would always talk 1/2
MyExistence
To my friends and family, they helped me get through the tough times in my life. I don't know what would've happened if I kept to myself.
flowseeker
I'm just not the type of person who takes comfort in talking things out with others. I consider myself fortunate for that because I dont 1/2
flowseeker
really have anyone I could do that with even if I wanted to.
MyExistence
Oh okay I got it. Everyone deals with issues differently.
batmansrevenge
Don't forget the part about expecting them to go to war and get mutilated and killed and shit.
wethatwethat
It's not just opening up, but listening. Last I tried to open up to my best friend I found he wasn't listening. I sorta quoted Patch Adams
wethatwethat
by going from what I was talking about and changing the end of the sentence to 'and I use my dick as a pogo stick' and he just said 'mmhmm'.
bekind2joeblake
Let your boys cry. Teach them to communicate their feelings. Toxic masculinity is dangerous to everyone
Galliut
What kind of shit are you spewing out?
RandoCalrizzian
When feminists try to get men to cry, somehow I am suspicious they don't have men's best interests at heart
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tattietater
"Toxic masculinity" does not mean all masculinity is toxic.
[deleted]
[deleted]
bekind2joeblake
It is specifically referring to the part of masculinity that is harmful to men. Not all parts of masculinity
tattietater
Look into the history of the term: https://www.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/1voxgf/toxic_masculinity_came_from_mens_activists_not/
tattietater
It is now, and always has been, a way to explain how gender stereotypes hurt men as well as women.
nnto
"Toxic masculinity" Tumblr is that way ->
bekind2joeblake
Redpill is that way-->
cindel
In case you hadn't noticed, this series of pictures describes exactly what toxic masculinity is. What's killing our boys.
Briecheez
It's interesting, because female are more likely to attempt suicide, but males are more likely to actually die from their attempts.
SoftwareChef
TW,. Back when I was super depressed, I would think of ways that I was sure it'll work, because I knew the repercussions of failure.
thisisprocrastination
*men are more likely to commit suicide, women to attempt it.
myrdrah
Because females don't actually want to die, but hurt themselves as a cry for help. Men actually want to die.
cuddlefishy
You're not entirely wrong. Also there are more suicide prevention programs targeted towards females than males
WhimsicalCalamari
it's more that, because (as in the post) men are always expected to be hardcore, the first method that comes to mind is often more lethal.
PigeonFace
But men and women end up in that state, the reason they're trying is because they want to die, it's not gender specific
Falcrist
The lack of crying is hormonal. Talk to a transperson. MtoF will tell you they cry more. FtoM will tell you it's harder to have "a good cry"
[deleted]
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Falcrist
Obviously every man and woman is different, but my point is that hormones play a BIG part in the crying.
WhyShouldILoveYou
I literally stopped crying once I hit puberty. Nothing has opened the floodgates in 15 years. I dread the time that something does.
Falcrist
The lack of discussion about feelings is probably learned, though. It's definitely not healthy.
FauxFargoth
Yes, it's the being told that showing emotion is unattractive and unmanly that is harmful.
ScourgeOf
I agree that it is most likely acquired,& not the best, but find issue with the thought that there's one "correct way" to do it for everyone
ScourgeOf
Sssshhh, don't let the blank-slate "social constructionists" hear you talk about physiological factors. They'll be upset.
Falcrist
I agree they can be unreasonable at times, but there's no need to troll them.
ScourgeOf
Perhaps, but I feel like I'd be missing out if I didn't poke a bit of fun at very wrong people/ stances (like 100% nature/nurture) sometimes
Falcrist
I find that that approach only makes people more dogmatic.
ScourgeOf
I wouldn't say "only", but I suppose you'd often be right. Sometimes I'll just prioritize amusement over good will, mark it as a shortcoming
PigeonFace
But if a girl finds it hard to let themselves break that barrier, what are they?
Falcrist
What barrier?
PigeonFace
The barrier of not feeling like they should emote, that they shouldn't cry, that they should stay strong, that breaking down is bad.
Falcrist
That sounds like a mental barrier, and does not appear to be hormonal.
AcquiredSire
Both genders have issues we need to pay attention to. All the fake issues are taking the attention away from the real ones though, it sucks.
rexzeer
Feminism cares for men's issues: as soon as all women's issues are solved, including fake ones such the pay gap, we'll look at male suicide.
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TMPSMX
Get over yourself
balthcat
Odd, at the only talk I attended regarding feminism a feminist male brought up the harmful impact of toxic masculinity like in OP.
balthcat
Maybe you should actually listen to real feminists and not http://strawfeminists.com/
mamabarry
I want my little boy to be strong. To know its ok to emote, to ask for help and push through. I also want that for my little girl.
Peppersworth
Then let him know that it is okay to show his emotions.
YamatoIouko
Except...society doesn't want to see them. Too many people are still chained to their biological imperatives to accept when men do this.
MusculusSternocleidomastoideus
But also teach them to not complain about every small little thing, bc then people will stop taking you seriously.
7even8ths
If only this girly boy analogy was that simple. Most are driven to despair from unreal expectations of modern society and there peers.
TheRealDurdan
Their*
balthcat
It's not a modern thing though? And are you sure those peer expectations aren't fuelled by toxic expectations of masculinity?
YamatoIouko
(2) Your assertion does not match the facts of reality.
YamatoIouko
Male suicides have been rising over the twentieth century. By a significant degree, and spiked in the last ten.
balthcat
I'm fairly certain that assertions cannot be followed by question marks. Also, please link source for consumption.
YamatoIouko
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/health/us-suicide-rate-surges-to-a-30-year-high.html?_r=0 Or, you know, try Google. It's super easy.
balthcat
Why would I google when you clearly had already come across a source? Google can't tell me what you read.
balthcat
Also, Julie Phillips' quote supports the idea the expectations of masculinity might be to blame...
balthcat
Also that doesn't appear to discuss suicide across the 20th century.
balthcat
CDC dude suggests it's more about the economy than something about the late 20th/21st centuries.
originalBabewiththePower
Men need to know that a real woman will be there for you when you cry. It's ok, you aren't weak.
YamatoIouko
Except there are still plenty of women that DO see it as a weakness. Biological expectations are a bitch to overcome.
originalBabewiththePower
Hence why I said a real woman and not a little girl. Big difference.
YamatoIouko
No true Scotsman.
Peppersworth
I hope that I can find a woman who will be there for me when I cry and I hope that I will be there for her when she needs to cry.
cindel
Just realised I've held every boyfriend I ever had while they cried. Even the "blokey" ones. People cry. It's human.
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cindel
My Mum doesn't cry. I've seen her bury 3 best friends and a mother. Dad cries though.
originalBabewiththePower
I wish I could convince my SO that it's ok to cry. Unfortunately he's had it drilled into him that it's not ok.Makes for a lot of repression
cindel
Poor boys :( It must be hard. I can't imagine being upset and also feel like you're doing something wrong by just having feelings.
potatothegreat
I dont give a fuck. Ill cry if i need to. But i see this affecting some women i know also....they dont want to come off as weak. Its stupid.
malachiteopaljasperobsidian
Or they have no one to talk to, or who would understand or care if they tried.
potatothegreat
If youre my friend. I care. I grew up not having friends and now i have quite a bit. Friendship is one thing i cherish big time.
larouquine
Boys ain't the only ones getting punished by overly stoic parents. Am girl, was punished specifically for crying by mom, developed complex.
peasantpanda
I'm a lady and I would rather die than cry even in front of my bf. It's stupid.
lolageispower
+1 mostly for your username
grimshow
My grandmother is like this...so is my father.
level80sunshine
Yeah, for us ladies, it's like, crying is still seen as a sign that we're weak. But we're expected to be weak so crying is not abnormal. 1/2
level80sunshine
Men typically don't like crying BECAUSE it's seen as feminine, which is associated with weakness. We all suffer from toxic masculinity, tbh
Trifoliumpratenseical
THIS.
mindstorm8191
I agree. Society needs to learn that showing emotions isn't weakness
NoSleepTilBrooklyn
I hate crying in front of people, even my husband. My family is very emotional and they are all a little freaked out by the way I am.
Britishchick17
Can attest to that shit. My family pretends my terminal cancer doesn't exist because emotions are weak. I can't be sick in front of them.
nagellak
Umm, fuck. That sounds terrible. You doing ok, all things considered? Do you have some friends to support you through this?
BreadyStinellis
Totally true. I've seen my mom cry twice. She tries to be a rock. I feel like if i cry in front of her I'm letting her down somehow.
Flyndaran
Need to, sure. But if you're crying in front of me as a stranger because of words, then you're failing as an adult.
potatothegreat
Oh no that stuff doesnt even bother me. You could push me and i wouldnt care. But when my dog died. I was tearing up at work
Flyndaran
Yes, and that's why I dislike fragile criers. I need to help those emotionally injured and feel lied to by those crying from mean words.
Thesinlesssinner
I'm a woman and I cry very easily. I've gotten made fun of for it and called a cry baby since I was a kid. I'm ashamed to cry now.
potatothegreat
Fuck that shit. You let it out. Fuck what people think, they arent going to help you feel better
Thesinlesssinner
I try and not let it bother me. I just hate being seen as a weak person, it's a hard habit to break.
potatothegreat
I understand. Fuck everybody. They dont know anything about whats going on in your life.
my90srapnameispoodrizzle
I like to point out that it's manly in many cultures to cry. The most badass samurai cries at a good poem. It helps to know that.
samjc23
It is, and it can affect your career. My feelings wires are crossed, and I cry when I get frustrated or angry rather than upset, and 1/2
BoomButton
I cry when I'm furious at someone that I can't hate, i.e. my mom. It took years for her to accept that I wasn't trying to manipulate her.
samjc23
Well I don't know why you got downvoted...I know exactly what you mean.
samjc23
I've had bosses (women especially) that view it as almost insulting, especially as I aged, even if I explained. Then I forced myself to 2/3
samjc23
Internalize, they talked about how I "matured into" the role, and instead of dealing with the feeling in 2min and be ready to bounce 3/4
samjc23
Back right away it bothers me all day, and distracts me mentally. Much better, apparently, since nobody else has to feel uncomfortable.
VedOkaaz
Good god, yes! You've 'really grown up' and it's like 'Nah bitch I've just learned I'm not allowed to let you know how miserable I am.' :/
AndASideOfFriesPlease
As a female, I don't know any woman, including myself, that would ever look at a man as weak if they cried.
BoomButton
I think it would depend on the reason. If you cry cause you've never had sex I'm going to give you some side-eye.
TheApatheticOwl
Unfortunately I know many that do.
flamingflamingo
That's pretty true. While women are permitted to cry and be emotional, you're still seen a certain way if you are. I hate appearing weak.
aetain
I hate that emotions = weak in so many people's minds. Feeling something doesn't mean you're weak, it means you're a human being.
Flyndaran
Just because some of us save our emotional displays for private or when in real distress does not make us less human.
aetain
I never implied that, I said that emotions are a part of being human and its sad that emotions are seen as weak.
Flyndaran
Oh, so you were just spouting beliefs unrelated to this thread? This is about crying, a public display, not mere feeling.
Flyndaran
Bawling like a child is weak. It shows injury to things that often aren't really injurious. It's embarrassing to see.
flamingflamingo
Well not all emotions, obviously, but if you buckle in front of authority or get stressed out easily, it IS a hindrance.
aetain
True, but why does it have to be that way? I just think people shouldn't be seen as weak for something like crying when stressed. It's BS.
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flamingflamingo
I work in management and being able to stand up to authority and handle difficult situations does actually mean you do your job effectively.
IAmNotAWoodenDuck
It's the whole "she's just doing it for the attention" thing. I remember being clinically depressed in high school and being labeled "emo"
ularg
Also a big problem when some just assume "Oh women are going to cry because they're already weak" bullshit.
IAmNotAWoodenDuck
Yes, also definitely a big problem.
LeftCollectionBlueBird
Yep. We talked about family deaths at school, when I was thirteen. It was six days after my dad died. Cried, and never lived it down.
IAmNotAWoodenDuck
Ooooh wow, that sucks. I'm really sorry to hear that.
IAmNotAWoodenDuck
You can actually see someone mentioning women "doing it for the attention" in one of the comments here.
MyExistence
Well, that's one way to phrase it. Another is to say that women attempt suicide more often as a way to reach out for help.
SocialMediaMakesUsLessSocial
Why am I not surprised.
TheBoozehoundBitch
We teach young boys that being feminine is shameful and the feelings are only feminine. This mentality fucks up both genders, sadly
YamatoIouko
It's not just men, either, just so we're clear. Both parents do this.
TheBoozehoundBitch
We as a society do this, often without even realizing that's what we're doing.
YamatoIouko
I know. The problem is that a LOT of people don't put cognitive analysis on any of their actions and just do what 'feels' right.
SoftwareChef
Ironically, the most "manly" men I've met, are the ones who've embraced their feminine traits.
LoTRFanatic42
Confidence is the key to everything.
TheBoozehoundBitch
Exactly. Being in touch with who you are and taking care of yourself emotionally makes you a more well rounded person
ScourgeOf
Are you sure you're not talking about the ones you found most attractive rather than most manly? It seems rather contradictory otherwise.
SoftwareChef
As LotR-whatever stated, is about confidence.
ScourgeOf
Not sure I understand you. I can say I don't feel like confidence is a specifically masculine trait though. Like, at all.
BreadyStinellis
Being secure enough to cry, wear floral patterns, or whatever isn't considered "manly", shows that they don't need to posture to prove
ScourgeOf
I get you feel confidence is attractive in men (so do I), but saying its manly to not show masculine traits still seems contradictory to me
BreadyStinellis
The point is it's manly to not give a fuck whether you look manly or not. I'm not saying these guys show no masculine traits, just that they
BreadyStinellis
Their masculinity. "I'm a man, I'll play dress up with my daughter if I want to" mentality.
SoftwareChef
I've done that quite a bit with my nieces.
BreadyStinellis
Absolutely. My husband cries at sad movies and it's fucking sexy.
balthcat
Like, did you grow up with a mother and father who repeatedly insisted that a man who did such a thing was pathetic?
BreadyStinellis
Not at all. My dad cried regularly. Mostly because he was proud of us.
balthcat
Aww :3
balthcat
That's arguably because you've been exposed to a society moving towards valuing men for these things?
YamatoIouko
Where is this society? Because it sure ain't Western society.
balthcat
I'm in Canada and I think generally in North America there's increasing appreciation for emotional variety in men.
tempuslynn
Seriously important. Crying occasionally from sadness or stress can actually help your health in the long run.
TheOlsenTwins
Fuck you, ya pussy! :P
SoftwareChef
I'd fuck the Olsen Twins any time.
jexsam
Occasionally, though. If you come to rely heavily on emotional behavior, you don't learn how to control it when it needs to be controlled.
michoobles
Exactly. My ex would get mad if I cried during arguments because he immediately felt guilty. I can't control it, but I see why its a burden.
TastyButts
No surprise here, after I cry I always feel better because ive let the feelings out
GregtheDreg
Men tend to do it in private.
Ohond
And yet they masturbate in public. How wierd is that?! *Cries*
YamatoIouko
Hey. That's kinkshaming, and I've been told that is wrong.
Kisamex96
I went through the most stressful situation I have been in, maybe I should have cried and let it all out, but either or I worked myself
Kisamex96
up to much and now I got tachycardia even when resting. But it is completely safe, just weird to feel. If you feel like crying, do it.
ShoopDeDoop
Can possibly help* I haven't cried in over 20 years, and I'm a lot healthier, both physically and mentally, than most people I know/meet.
Falcrist
Crying is not the same experience for men as it is for women. Ask a trans-person about their experience. It's seriously interesting stuff!
ashmenon
Wait, does the experience CHANGE for a trans person? Like, pre-op and post-op? If so that's ridiculously fascinating.
[deleted]
[deleted]
ashmenon
Interesting. I'm on TRT and I find I start tearing up easier nowadays. Although that could be just work stress.
SpicyParrot
I'm assuming it has to do with the changing amount of estrogen/testosterone they take. Which would theoretically chang how they percieve.
1111111111113
Idk I'm a transdude on testosterone and its really difficult for me to cry. Physiologically, not emotionally. Hormones aint no joke.
ashmenon
Interesting. I'm on TRT and I find I start tearing up easier nowadays. Although that could be just work stress.
viddharta
just psychological (like, of course you cry less if you feel better in your body). I should probably check if trans women cry more after (2)
ashmenon
Interesting. I'm on TRT and I find I start tearing up easier nowadays. Although that could be just work stress.
Falcrist
I'll let the trans-folk describe their experiences. The reactions to hormone treatment seem almost universal.
viddharta
starting taking oestrogens. (3).
viddharta
Lots of trans men say they cry less after they start taking hormones. I don't know if there's SCIENCE behind this, though, or if it's (1)
PORTUGUESETORTURING
I schedule a cry-night once a month. I go to a feels thread on 4chan, let a couple tears out, and then im good.
th3p0x
Real men of history are rolling in their graves over these comments.
ularg
Boo-hoo, go have a cry about it.
JesseCombs
I love plp like you lol.
GunnarrTheMadd
Pussy.
PORTUGUESETORTURING
i love people like me too. specifically me. physically. with my hand.
Ohond
But not just once a month.
PORTUGUESETORTURING
once a month lmao more like once an hour
FilthyRedmond
Evolutionarily, crying has to exist for some reason. Telling you not to do it is a bad idea.
eadanke
Sure, "emotional tears" are full of pain killing and aggression reducing chemical chains. One of which, enkaphalin, is highly addictive.
SoftwareChef
Enkaphalin, eh? Sounds like it'll command a high price on the black market. How about we kidnap some sweet virgins arrive make them cry?
eadanke
There must be an easier and much less fun way. But, the kidnapping days of my youth are long over.
SoftwareChef
Fine, we'll steal a barrel of it from the local med supply. Or customers won't mind if it's blue, right?
Flyndaran
It shows fragility and injury, which is good when around allies but bad around strangers.
SoftwareChef
I wish I could.
stevetehpirate
You get the headaches from it?
LordChanticleer
You okay?
SoftwareChef
No, but I'm working through it. Thanks.
almostsomething182
You too? I get to points where I REALLY need to cry, maybe one or two tears will come out and that's it...
IonXenon
(1/2) Yup, my Grandma and dog passed in the same week. A couple tears and that's all. My girlfriend tried to just hold me and console me...
almostsomething182
My grandpa passed a couple months ago, and I didn't shed a single tear. There was no one there for me, I just couldn't.
almostsomething182
The closest I got was when I was mentioning to my mom how much of him I saw in all of them(his kids) and she teared up.
astraecat
And here I am, master tear-bender, lady of eye-water 24/7
IonXenon
(3/2) ^ (hit send be accident, please be gentle) I couldn't be weak, especially when I needed to be a rock for her at the time.
IonXenon
(2/2) but I couldn't lay there. I had to do some something... go for a walk... i couldn't be weak especially when I needed to be a rock for
thatclimbingguy
This. When my dad died I was so shocked I had to force myself to cry.
stevetehpirate
Yeah. I really miss the emotional catharsis of crying. I definitely feel it. I definitely want to. But nothing really happens.
almostsomething182
And it's not like I'm done with those feelings that quickly. I just can't cry.
crocha9
Same here. Someone should make a study over this.
SoftwareChef
I can't even get that. I know it's not a physical thing, because I can cry when laughing.
Flyndaran
Sadness tears are chemically different. I most likely have mild Sjogren's disease which makes it painful to even try. My mom's worse.
storebrandproductmascot
He makes some good points about our patriarchal culture. Well, time to go bitch about feminists some more...
TongueTiedLabourerfromtheLandoftheLittlePeople
Really? Because one could take it to mean the whole "white rich american women are oppressed" thing to be utter bs.
TongueTiedLabourerfromtheLandoftheLittlePeople
That and substance abuse and the college gap and the social care gap and the transgender gap.
YamatoIouko
Well, I mean, it is. So, it's easy to take a thing a way when things are in fact that way.
thisisprocrastination
Except the wage gap is a lie & society favors women in most things. But he's right about menstruation tho.
SukumaRicky
nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html
thisisprocrastination
Longer hours means more pay, including more pay/h. Your linked story even makes an issue out of this. Apart from the 77% bs for morons, >
thisisprocrastination
>>at least tells the reporter why this is so. Heck, Thomas Sowell already busted the gender pay gap myth back in the 80's, yet here we are.
balthcat
I guess he did a shitty job of it then.
thisisprocrastination
It's more that ppl aren't interested in the truth, they're interested in their agenda, and feelgood bullshit.
thisisprocrastination
>usually the slightly more nuanced propaganda "controls" for hours as if overtime didn't exist, as does Golding in her figures, tho she >>
kittensaremetalaf
I have no clue why people are downvoting this. The Wage Gap IS false, or at least misrepresented in the media.
balthcat
Gimme a neutral source to read on that.
kittensaremetalaf
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html
balthcat
A fellow if the American Enterprise Institute is not neutral.
kittensaremetalaf
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wage-gap-myth-that-wont-die-1443654408
balthcat
Well, she's a great example of how far women have come, as an investment banker, but her article is paywalled.
kittensaremetalaf
It's 100% illegal to pay a male more than a female for the same work. There is no wage gap in this sense. Men tend to work longer hours.
kittensaremetalaf
http://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#1f69668d4766
balthcat
WHY do women work less? WHY do women have different education? WHY? That's our fucking point. Jesus.
balthcat
I read it anyway. It has nothing compelling. We're all well aware of the "but they work less/study less/etc." argument.
balthcat
"Karin Agness is the founder and president of the Network of enlightened Women, an American organization for conservative university women."
SukumaRicky
It's not really true. Society favors men and women differently. Men have it better sometimes and women other times.
thisisprocrastination
Society favors women in every governmental effort, whether it's health care, education or justice. Or even business,with women-only programs
balthcat
You do realize that the women-only programs are to offset natural advantages men have elsewhere right?
balthcat
Giving a powered wheelchair to someone without legs doesn't mean cripples have all the fun shit. Jesus Christ.
SukumaRicky
Dude. It's not a passing contest. We all have problems. You don't need to invalidate women's issues in order to talk about men's.
thisisprocrastination
When virtually all focus and all effort is on women's issues, someone has to remind ppl of what the actual state of affairs is.
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
Men die from suicide more often because their attempts are more succesful. Women do more attempts.
ShitIstoleFrom4chan
Was going to say exactly this.
Maraak
...yet another thing men are better at. Is there anything not tainted by muh patriarchy!
JustanotherdamnMinnesotan
So what your saying is that we're better at that too
JimBuckThree
Yikes - this again. Not true at all. And FAR more complicated than that.
JustHereToPostPicturesOfMyDog
I should have read farther down in comments because I just posted this. You are correct.
TongueTiedLabourerfromtheLandoftheLittlePeople
there is no statistically significant difference for suicide planning or suicide attempts between the genders.[3][4]
TongueTiedLabourerfromtheLandoftheLittlePeople
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide
unfamiliarHorse
.
iWasSayingBooerns
one could argue that the men really want to end their lives whereas for women it's a cry for attention
balthcat
Are you sure this has meaning? What if women try more often because society tells them they're weaker, but they are less committed.
balthcat
Maybe men skip the "cry for help" suicide and until it's not a cry for help anymore, and they go all-in. Your claim doesn't discount OP.
iseeaveragepenis
So 77% compared to men
jaijaikali
That's only because of their methods. Men hang themselves, shoot themselves, jump off buildings... woman slit their wrists, take pills, etc.
coolhandmike50
Women make more gestures...like taking 6 percocet and calling 911
Spidey209
This information is not relavent to OP.
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
Yes it is. He's acting like men being resilient makes them more likely to commit suicide than women. This statistic means that that's wrong.
balthcat
No, that statistic says no such thing.
Spidey209
He makes no mention of relative suicide rates to women AT ALL.
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
He says 'men commit suicide at a rate of 3:1 to women'.
cheshiredudeenema
There are more serious and less serious attempts. Men have more of the serious ones. And for women that's multiple attempts, not more women.
jaijaikali
And the reason woman survive more often is the methods they use versus the methods men use.
LogicalFallacyMan
So men really are better at everything.
monty82
*reported attempts
imanatheistdebateme
No distinction is made between attempts which are intended to result in death, and "attempts" which are intended to result in attention.
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
But that still makes it a response to depression, which could mean that women are more likely to be subject to that.
balthcat
No, it doesn't. If men don't express depression through action until the end, but women express it repeatedly in less severe bursts...?
imanatheistdebateme
It would be a mistake to believe that all depression is the same.
balthcat
You're assuming a direct equivalency in the nature and severity of attempts, which is a major fucking mistake.
congratufuckinglations
I mean, he's just assuming correlation implies causation. Where's his sauce/research yo!?
balthcat
Precisely.
congratufuckinglations
Why are we being downvoted? lol how does he know men's suicides, come from not expressing themselves? Yes, it may be true but... source? (
balthcat
Oh, I actually don't agree with you. I think it's a pretty good theory.
congratufuckinglations
Yes, I think it's a good theory, too! It's just that I'd like to see some evidence.
balthcat
I thought you meant the suggestion that women try more invalidates his theory was wrong. (Because it doesn't.)
congratufuckinglations
Oh, no I didn't mean that at all. But I see how it might have been a confusing comment.
ibuprofen87
Seems to me that a failed suicide attempt is a cry for help rather than a serious attempt to die.
Bb4816
That's an inaccurate and potentially harmful assumption.
Anthrax451
If you're trying to cry for help, committing suicide on the off-chance it'll fail is risky..
SometimesISayHistoryStuff
Just add that to the list of things men do better than women. Woo, go men!
heinousanus00
SAVAGE!
Sairvous
You are terrible lol
insearchoftheperfectusername
You're a horrible person. +1
Foodstamp001
I came here just to make sure that this comment had been posted. Good work.
thisisprocrastination
Perhaps they're more successful because they want to die, not get attention.
circlebreaker
Shots fired! *ba-dum-dun-tiss*
MajinCry
...Or because the methods are different? Saying people commit suicide for attention...Yeesh.
thisisprocrastination
Yeah, but WHY are the methods different. Why choose a method almost as if designed not to be final.
BreadyStinellis
Many women place their value in their appearance even in death. We don't want to blow out heads off, we want to die of an overdose or bleed
BreadyStinellis
Out. Less effective, but a "more desirable" way to go.
DoctorAngelface
I'm actually a female suicide survivor. Took an entire bottle of pills, wrote my farewell letters and kissed my family goodnight. Attention
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
How were you so sure that whichever pills you were taking would certainly kill you?
DoctorAngelface
Was the last thing on my mind. Spent months recovering physically and emotionally. Maybe you're trolling but your comment hurt to read.
Bb4816
I feel very similarly to you. People often disregard female attempts because they assume it's always a cry for attention. It's sickening...
Gangstatron
agreed!!!
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
Possibly. Apparently, women do more suicide attempts by the (ineffective) method of medicine poisoning.
thisisprocrastination
Yeah, only to be found in time (as planned). They don't do it out in a cabin in the woods.
thedustygrad
It's true; some people use this to seek attention. You may even know one personally. It's inappropriate to label the whole group that way.
thisisprocrastination
It is inappropriate to, again, dismiss the far higher suicide rate of men, by wresting focus back onto women.
TheBoozehoundBitch
It's typically considered that this is because women worry about leaving a blown up brains mess for someone else to have to deal with.
darkhalfbreed
Theres always rope
SoftwareChef
Well, as a guy, I think about the same, so it isn't a gender thing.
ScourgeOf
General tendencies aren't meant to define every single individual's decision.
flattoppancake
An attempt at suicide is never a cry for attention. It's an attempt to end your entire existence, after all.
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
They say that most people who commit suicide want attention. That doesn't make it their main motivation though.
JimBuckThree
Actually - in some instances, it is. It can be like a bargaining chip - a terrible state to be in, but I've worked with people like this.
thisisprocrastination
It may seem that way to gullible people.
cindel
This kind of talk can only serve to make someone abandon a friend when they're needed most.
slaptyback
One could readily infer that means that many women are looking to use it as a cry for help, where men just want it to end.
atlovecraft
The reason is because men use more lethal means to commit suicide, such as a gun or hanging. Where women use cutting or overdose. It's not
atlovecraft
that they don't want to end it. It's just the methods they use.
slaptyback
And the methods they use could be more timid because they're less serious about it. Not saying that's true, just saying there's more to it.
ScourgeOf
That's a slippery assumption. For all we know, levels of relief and frustration after failed suicide attempts are very similar in both.
slaptyback
I was merely providing another view on the data. Although I'm betting it holds a bit true, I'm certain there's more to it than that.
ScourgeOf
Fair enough, nothing wrong with hypothesizing, as long as we're conscious that's what we're doing.
balthcat
One cannot accurately predict future relief/frustration, so I'm not sure how that would weigh in on attempt frequency.
ScourgeOf
This is true, but we're not talking frequency as much as tendency (& motivations) to attempt, and to succesfully commit, suicide.
balthcat
Tendency and motivation as well. Actual relief from not dying, or frustration from not dying (or solving the problem) cannot be predicted.
MachineInterface
"While males are 4 times more likely than females to die by suicide, females attempt suicide 3 times as often as males." So not enough to 1/
MachineInterface
to completely explain away the discrepancy.
ScourgeOf
Some identified factors include men asking for help with it less often, choosing more quick and brutal methods, and planning it "better".
supersanic1
Women typically use methods like pills, painless methods. Men are Wayy more likely to just use a shotgun and end it.
somepromethean
No, women use methods that will leave their body presentable. Which is fucking ridiculous. If you care enough about things that (1/2)
somepromethean
you'd want that, committing suicide doesn't make any sense.
insearchoftheperfectusername
Maybe because we're trained since childhood that our value lies entirely in our appearance? Even in death we have to fill our "role".
IHaveAPhrasalUserNameLikeThisOneCauseTheyAlwaysGetTheTopComment
A shotgun blast can kill you quick enough to be painless. And most pill attempts are unsuccesful and will make your death slow and painful.
caralovesgosu
Pills are pretty painful :(
JayCeeEhm
For some reason I read that in a British accent.
DeadOnionSaysWhat
I'm US, I couldn't decide if I was hearing a brit accent or aussie. Why didn't I read it in American accent?!
aspiringworldtraveller
Josh Thomas, he's an Aussie comedian from Brisbane. Hilarious though obviously you can't tell from this.
HorseMcFucker
He looks incredibly British though.
Britishchick17
Well what the fuck is that supposed to mean, my good sir??
aussysadmin
Yeah, don't insult Josh, he's actually Australian
isitduckorduct
What's weird is that I didn't realize I did the same thing until I read your comment.
rosscorama
Annoying Perth/University accent, so a bit british.
claireconcept
Me too and I even knew he was Australian. I think it's the Beatles vibe to it.
Inmate45
It's Australian 'gay'... so, pretty close to british. He's rather great though.
bevrosity
well he does look very british and has very british mannerisms.
CostaLotmoreOrless
Fuck off cunt are you fair dinkum.
GuardsmanMiku
dont ask me why, but I read it as that guy from only fools and horses
1forMerlin
holy shit i did that too o.o
PanicAtTheEverywhere
I did too! Maybe it's because he looks a bit like Rupert Grint?
FatForYou
If you watch his mouth, he is NOT American.
polkadotforcefield
I absolutely did too.
Evanfromearth
I think every normal person read it in a British accent lol
Jade237
I did too! It was the Beatles hair cut, and the suit
marzipanius
It's the haircut.
Anenome
Is he... not British? >_>
iswim
Australian
BreadyStinellis
Australian. Look for Please Like Me on hulu. It's a tv show he's in and it's great.
stevetehpirate
I think there's cues to accents in the shapes someone's mouth makes when they talk.
akihabaracapybara
I did too, and I'm not sure why. The hand gestures just seemed British?
oldslow
odd that!
ThePieRat
You're not alone on that one
ITryToOnlyRespondInGifs
And I just read all these comments with a British accent too
sippinonorphantears
as did i
CynicSnacks
That's so strange, I did too. He also had a slight lisp. I'm putting down to his vocabulary.
beaglefeatures
He has his own accent - it's weird
sugar3
Definitely puts it on that's for sure
AnndyEdwards
This.
ProteinFarts
Same here, until he said "it's better to be a dude". Then I had to re-read it in an American accent.
TheRealDurdan
But he's Australian
ProteinFarts
Well, I didn't know they had that word in Australia. haha
TheRealDurdan
Dude
RoastedSalted
Me too, because he looks like Rupert Grint.
VeryNearly
I thou he looked like Hugh Laurie
sillybananas
I was going to say the same thing!
Kazuch
My thoughts exactly
einahpetslol
Ed Sheeran
sippinonorphantears
wait..he's not? i genuinely though it was
YamatoIouko
It'd be kinda weird if that happened, considering how hardcore feminist Emma Watson went. It'd be like...divergence, almost.
sippinonorphantears
huh, never knew that. Thanks, now she isnt as attractive lol
YamatoIouko
She is practically Hermione Granger in real life. For whatever that's worth.
inversegrav
damn, so did I and didn't even notice till yo just pointed out the fact
Therearetoomanyusernames
Ditto!
hungrydadspodcast
Same
raurenlichelle
Same
Empurpled
Same
turtledove929
same
Redbeardrich
As a British bloke I read everything in a British accent... unless theres a picture of morgan freeman in the background.
ICantBelieveItsNotGif
Or Farnsworth
Hastilygrim
I read in my voice most of the time.
ChiliRainbow
I read "Morgan Freemon in the background" in his voice.
flamingflamingo
As an American I read your comment in an American accent. I hope you feel violated.
prototype01
I read your post in Morgan Freeman's voice.
TwerkyTurkey
As soon as I read "bloke" I involuntarily switched
Jackler
I did that too, but then I switched again when I read Morgan Freeman
NoUserNamesLeftToChooseFrom
Josh is Australian
aussysadmin
With a really high pitched voice. It was really weird reading it in his voice. I was trying to add the pauses but couldn't.
Bambing
He actually sounds Irish a bit though
roughtyper
Weird stuff. I read it in an Australian accent. I had no idea...
kevinallover
Ah, the Texans of Oceania.
NoUserNamesLeftToChooseFrom
"Fuck that" said the Australian
tooomanysteves
As an Aussie, I have never be so insulted in all my life! (Also, we're not part of Oceania, fuckwit).
TheRealDurdan
Everything relates back to America, hey.
FreshleyBakedLePain
The average Australian is about as Texan as .... whatever American group is considered least texan.
kevinallover
Delawarean. I believe the answer is Delawarean.
FreshleyBakedLePain
thank you