Cheomesh
134001
5712
78
relevant
May 29, 2019 12:07 AM
Cheomesh
134001
5712
78
demgainsson
No one will see this, but I live in DC and our stadium cost us around 400 mil, but pulls in a little more than that every year in revenue
evildrtran
Ha ha, fucking Baltimore. AmIRight?
dreamsnottheresultofwhatweeat
Quebec City: $370 million on stadium for NHL team. Team goes to Las Vegas. Quebecers still resent the Nordiques going to Colorado in 1995.
WhatExactlyIs
relatable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb3HcuFyDFQ
CrocodileDunphy
stadium deals rarely are good deals. But—people get the governance they voted in.
WarBearGrrrrrrr
It worked as a distraction for the Romans’ we haven’t progressed that far.
glitterwank
Grenfell tower tragedy could've been avoided for £293k, the cost of non flammable cladding. But no, not worth it for Kensington borough.
cpnbeeb
"You mean I have to see that ugly tower from my upscale flat? No thank you."
Quipod
150mill sounds way too cheap. Rail cali failed to build cost way more.
Quipod
5 billion and it's still going no where
Munchman347
Transit System owners have got to learn to kick back more if they want financing...
Stienburg
Baltimore has a subway, multiple bus lines plus the circulator but it’s not like it’s a small public transit system.
Stienburg
I’ve taken a bus from Catonsville to middle river before. Could be worse.
DavidBrooker
A subway line, in an expensive city, can cost $100M *per mile*. The benefits here is that it has the capacity of 15+ highway lanes, and 1/2
DavidBrooker
has much greater benefits to the city than just moving people around. 2/2
Hazard13
As a fellow Baltimoreon; Preach Hon.
DougForcett
The rich people don’t want to give the poor people easy access to their rich parts of town. Ask Atlanta.
cpnbeeb
Oh but the rich people will certainly move in to the poor parts of town and gentrify the shit out of it alright.
Edutittam
Assuming this is about the NFL, Owners and NFL brass have no business asking for tax payer money they have it.
SchizophrenicMC
Is this Arlington, Texas for the second time in 10 years?
DJsBoyfriend
Thank you. Thought of this immediately.
wulfehs
Hey, someone else got it too! First thing I said when I read the text. Fucking cowboys and rangers both.
Applecrack
public transit doesnt help the rich stay rich
NewtGinGrinch
Great story on this will make you MAD tho. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/22/nfl-stadiums-cost-taxpayers-billions-of-dollars/
SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE
Washington Times really isn't a reliable source.
vitaminalgas
Read it...it is indeed a very good read
DiscountOneLiners
Good read; thanks for sharing
justtruth
I can't imagine it's only 150 million for comprehensive transit of Baltimore. That's easily a 15-50 billion endeavor 5-10 years.
FartsSmellBad
They're giving the $1B to people who are already wealthy. They know how to manage money. Why give $150M for people who can't afford a car?/s
bigolpando
...and then the people are gonna want free education, and a "living" wage. C'mon, how entitled do ya get. /s
SensitiveShiori
i laughed, and then cried, because some people say this shit seriously. point blank. and mean it. dont forget people hating on healthcare...
1wholurks
But her books...her books...what about healthy Holly?
ArcaneConjecture
I'm a big fan of public transit, but $150M seems a little low.
Cheomesh
Yeah they wont even do that.
iburnstuff
that's enough to maybe turn some parking or general purpose lanes into bus lanes. Placed right plus better bus schedules is enough
iburnstuff
to make the difference between a broken bus system and one fast enough to let the area get dense enough for a subway
mkyner
Yeah, that's about two L stations in Chicago, or two inches of subway in New York.
FuzzyNuggets
Also Nashville
elethomel
came down to the comments to say this
FuzzyNuggets
Where.....where else would I say it?
elethomel
na friend. i came down here to say it, but found you had already spoken
FuzzyNuggets
Word
randomlurker948
"$150M", more like $3B, if you're lucky.
ZombieVarwick
Here in Portland they're always in the red, and still want to expand to places that don't need it.
Fazuzu
CA plans on spending $20.4-billion to build the Bakersfield to Merced high speed rail
desertbear87
Corruption, unions and politicians lining their and their buddies pockets. And then five years into the project, they'll ask for more $
middlehead
And the extra negotiations of "acquiring" land if it wasn't already allocated. A lot easier to get one plot for a stadium than all over town
ReginaKasteen
Before or after overruns and kickbacks?
HermeneuticalQuandary
Who’s going to want to go to a city where they can get around? Such a waste of money.
HotGeorgia05
Georgia’s new Braves stadium.
AmityvilleHodor
Well I already drove here...
Cheomesh
Nah I never drive INTO Baltimore - I pretty much always take the rail.
AmityvilleHodor
Like people in San Francisco... OHHHH, TRIPLE ENTENDRE
cheezedoff68
San Diego did it correct. Sent a team packing cause it's so called owner really can't afford a NFL team and wanted a Golden taxpayer ticket
Mediumtim2
Good! Also: https://youtu.be/fb3HcuFyDFQ
Bombideer
As a San Diegan, I'm mad they left but at the same time happy that we at least had the balls to not put up with the bullshit.
malikcarr
SD gave the Chargers a very reasonable offer to pay for some/most/a chunk of it and they walked. Spanos wanted us to pay for ALL of it! wtf
Nrpain
They wanted a new stadium and wanted the city to pay for it, They said go fuck off. so they bitched to the NFL to have the Rams share its 1/
Nrpain
new home for free and they got their way,
TinFoilKat
Seattle did the same. RIP Sonics.
TheSecondPiewackit
I'm pretty sure that was a result of a guy lying and saying he'd keep the team here, and then gave us the finger.
TheSecondPiewackit
Then again, I never really cared about sports and that was a long time ago.
TinFoilKat
That was later. The original owner sold to this guy cause the public voted down funding for a new arena.
TheSecondPiewackit
Yeah, and wasn't Clay fucknut supposed to help build a new one as part of the contingent for buying them?
umustbespecial
Yep now we got two teams and a brand new stadium we didn’t want. But hey, they added a few more beat cops to clean up our subway.
Nrpain
pretty sure their new Stadium is privatly founded ? \
sum1ne1
Wait we have a Subway?
cheezedoff68
And the ground Jack Murphy Stadium stands on, will be redeveloped as a SDSU annex and earn San Diego over twice what the NFL did. Win Win
lordblood123
at least the new stadium in LA is all private money
umustbespecial
For sure, one thing the fat cats got right. It’s gonna do wonders for taxes and much needed commerce in that area too but RIP 105/405/110.
MathewCorbett
My personal opinion is that the team owners should be paying the lions share for a stadium they're going to be profiting from
GenerallyLurkInBed
Agreed. Instead they get a palace paid for then they charge outrageous prices to attend the venue and eat and drink. It’s a fucking racket.
GenerallyLurkInBed
And I’m a big sports fan!
neumatteo
Only on Detroit
Sheepdroid
idk how it works in the USA but in most EU countries the city benefits greatly by building a stadium surrounded by hotels, shops etc.
Sheepdroid
Exposure, more tourism and such, problem is that most clubs don't know how to make money and end up being a burden to the city.
Justinicus
Oh, if there's one thing our sports teams know, it's how to make money!
Sheepdroid
In that case many cities end up buying the stadiums for a symbolic amount (usually $1) and rent the stadium out to the club.
bigmuffin1
There's this thing were sports teams blackmail cities in to building their stadiums. And threaten to leave unless they do.
kantaloupe
So send them packing. Ideally with a mob chasing them with torches and pitchforks.
GenerallyLurkInBed
Nailed it. Seattle lost the Sonics bc we didn’t build a massive arena 10 years after building an arena. Fucking racket these leagues have.
StephenDaniels
20 years ago the Patriots tried that and Massachusetts said 'bye!' The team bluffed for months but then backed down. 1 of 2
StephenDaniels
2 of 2 The new stadium was paid for by the team and sits in the parking lot of the old stadium.
vitaminalgas
Rams, chargers, raiders in the nfl
angrybook
Rams did that here in St. Louis. I don't miss them one bit.
rando84
One reason I love the Green Bay Packers. They turned the team into a public nonprofit corporation in the 20s and stipulated in the charter(1
CycloneSP
man, next year is gonna be kinda surreal, with it also technically being the '20s' for the new millennium
rando84
that if the team was ever sold, the profits could only be used to build a WWI memorial. It’s the only small town NFL team that survived. (2
DoNotTakeSeriousPls
The bread and circuses will keep you sheeplings satisfied. I, on the other hand, need the entire block of cheese to be content
InfinitusEquitas
Steak for me, thanks.
sonofTK421
darkwingduckInaMiniSkirt
Is that a reference?
BlankMage
Bread and Circuses was coined in the Roman Empire as 'things the government hopes will distract the people from the issues'
AdmJota
Yes, but the "block of cheese" part is what we're wondering about.
thematman92
Google it.
EvilDeadTed
Top Google search result is that guy's comment. lol.
FalconPunchingHitler
Tried it, lead me back here.
FoodleNZ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
AdmJota
We all know what bread and circuses are. The question was about the block of cheese.
limerind
it's easy to make the financial case for a sports stadium when you get to plug any number in for the city's economic growth
Lepidopterous
+1 This was also my first thought.
digiorno88
Studies have shown that stadiums don't actually create new revenue. They just pull revenue from other areas
IUpvoteBoxes
True, but if they pull money to a previously poor area youve just redistributed a lot of cash
digiorno88
Again, statistics show that the areas around stadiums are poor and have elevated crime rate. And the money pulled in goes to people who don'
digiorno88
Actually live in those areas, is the owners players staff. So they get their money and bring it to other places. It's a messed up system
BobTheTalkingSkull
Except the goal of the government isn't to make a profit, it's to help its citizens
magmachiller98
Yea the billionaire citizens who own the teams and get almost all revenue from said stadium without putting in a single dime towards making
SnugglesaurusRex
It's bullshit. Stadiums are empty like 90% of the year. It only benefits the billionaires that get all the profits from the tickets.
SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE
They do serve a vital function during and after major disasters. Read We Fed an Island.
AnythingMuchShorter
I lived near one, when not a game day it's a huge dead zone to walk through, on game day it's a huge traffic jam and crime spikes
SofaKingSpecial
Where is this true? The Moda center in Portland has something happening all the time.
limerind
i didn't say it was right. i just said it was easy to make the case.
SnugglesaurusRex
I wasn't saying you were bullshit. The numbers, compared to just about any other investment of that size, aren't worth it.
Lukapaka
and the mayor's cousin that gets the contract work
NachoPete
"What? He was the lowest bidder and always does quality work! But more importantly we need to crack down on those drug dealers." -Mayor
justtruth
The city gets huge amounts of taxes and permit fees from it. Obviously benefits the owner a lot but does quickly return on its investment
SnugglesaurusRex
It's nothing compared to investing in businesses that are open all year as opposed to a stadium that's open a few dozen days a year.
justtruth
Cities don't really invest in businesses and stadiums do actually return more. It's bigger than just the stadium space.
thankgodfordeaddinosaurs
There's also the money spent in the city by those attending the games/events at the stadium: food, lodging, gas, etc. All taxed.
BrockEffingSamson
There's also the events that people would have scheduled in the city but didn't because they didn't want to go against a sports event.
SnugglesaurusRex
Oh, I understand. I worked against the stadiums in Seattle. I'm saying there are hundreds of better things that do the same.
IsThatA380InMyPocketOrAmIHappyToSeeYou
Seattle loves their teams and the local gov has yet to meet a tax they don't like. Tabs for my '16 motorcycle ran $252 last renewal bc ST3
limerind
the diff between assuming an additional 0.1% growth per year might make the difference, but it's all just a wild ass guess to a modeler
justtruth
It's because stadiums have a very quick return on investment and management of that project is much easier than transit.
YouCheckedTheUsernameHaveACookie
Stadiums don't return on the investment
justtruth
They do... including sales tax, permits, parking, utilities and ad revenue. It's a big deal. No ones saying they use it well.
blarglebrle
All of that except taxes don't go to the city. $1B loan would be fair with the stadium as collateral would make sense.
thankgodfordeaddinosaurs
Sports events, especially for a popular team, can generate big money for a city.
CptBronson
No it doesn't. Part of the deals cities give stadiums is tax exemption. People spend money inside stadiums not outside stadiums.
CorrugatedUrethra1995
Big money but not for the city. It mostly only attracts people who already live in the area and would have found something else to 1/2
procrastinatingagain
And then $1million for education? No money in the budget for frivolous things such as education.
Mooninites
The education system needs major changes. If it did I’d invest in it personally.
freakyfox08
I can’t upvote this enough
PartyManimal
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2018/07/26/five-more-school-projects-underway-in-baltimores.amp.html
PataRican
Pantsworth6573
'I love the poorly educated'
RoseTheSpecialEdTeacher
8t boggles the mind that people don't understand that "bread and circuses" is still a thing.
greghaki
Imagine how many jobs there would be and functional things would be if transportation and education were funded how they should be.
greghaki
It would be bad for the quarterbacks paycheck. We can't have that.
Bob64
* of that 1 million, 90% goes to that new football field or basketball gym
KevinRPD
Needs to be spent better. They waste it on chrome books that get trashed.
waitwasthatreal
Schools are one of the most highly state funded programs...
mrmayortheiv
Obviously, but the needs are much higher. So a lot of money can still be not enough. Whereas frivolous spending is always too much.
ISaidSarcastically
Wait, was that real?
theshinobi23
...I said sarcastically.
Cheomesh
It is; MD spends a lot on its schools.
SomeDetroitGuy
It is. But why bother with facts?
MacThunderfart
Dumb people are the easiest to be ruled over.
IhaveAgunNotHereButIhaveOne
All the money in the world makes no difference if parents aren't involved in their children's education.
ThatNoPicklePeeThatNoPumpARum
That is so fucking untrue it's hilarious.
heyitssnowing
Baltimore spends a good bit on schooling. They also spent 100k on busses to protest the 2nd amendment in DC soo not being managed properly
theshinobi23
Umm...100k isn't even enough to buy 1 new bus. https://www.liveabout.com/bus-cost-to-purchase-and-operate-2798845
heyitssnowing
They rented them you twat..
theshinobi23
Doesn't change the fact that 100k isn't much in that area, and didn't stop them from budgeting what they should've.
Orein
So, sad story with that. At my college, we have a local highschool music teacher playing in our band. Well, in the middle of 1/2
Orein
this year's college graduation ceremony, he got a text from his highschool's board. They're cutting his music theory class. 2/3
Orein
Didn't ask him. Didn't look at the class's enrollment rates. Just cut it. I will never forget the look on his face. 3/3
jrellis462
They put all the Lotto money into schools though /s
Asadsadsadclown
Rather than waste my time explaining why that is technically correct yet 100% bullshit. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PK-netuhHA
girlsdontp00p
nigelstanfordfan237
Same here
Alfadorfox
Negative feedback loop. The better math education is, the fewer people will play the Lotto, the less money goes into math education.
SleepyRidin
Don’t forget all the casino money was supposed to go towards education
Asadsadsadclown
It does, they just drain those budgets by the same amount the lotto puts in.
SamArt53
+1. We all believed that-and it DID/DOES happen in California. What also happened was they then started reducing school budgets same amt.
SamArt53
So, the end result is the lottery is a major source of the school budgets in CA. It’s no longer just SUPPLEMENTAL money coming in.
PeteButtigieg
The problem with the budget is that Cali can't sustain the pension program. Most money is going to teacher's pensions.
SamArt53
And school administration. The ratio of teachers to admin. has been shifting for years. I can’t find stats, but the ratio is definitely
SamArt53
.shifting to more admin/teacher than ever before. My niece and her husband (teachers) have also told me it’s changed a lot in 30 years.
Cheomesh
Yeah last election cycle MD passed a requirement to treat it as supplemental.
Asadsadsadclown
"requirement"
McFluffySundae
My high school got a grant once and what they spend it on? How about making sure there's enough books to go around? Nope. Enough food 1/2
AlkeneThiol
They could just poll the students to ask what they need. But no. All children are dumber than all adults and don't know what's good for them
McFluffySundae
They didn't even need to do that. Just look at the issues in the school. Kids went hungry regularly, teachers complained about books 1/2
McFluffySundae
and had to resort to photocopying books to have enough for everyone. What a mess 2/2
AlkeneThiol
(protip: most kids would very much prefer their education be as enriching as possible. Maybe seriously ask their feedback sometimes)
AManisNotACamel
Asking for feedback only works when it’s acted upon. I work for a government agency who “consult” with staff; then act on none of it!
McFluffySundae
so that people in the last lunch didn't go hungry? Nope. Replacing 30 yr old books? Nope. Getting calculators for everyone? Nope. Oh I 2/3
McFluffySundae
know! Let's get gold coins and a stupid sign for the field hockey team for winning a game and shut school down for a day to praise them 3/4
McFluffySundae
and then let's also get 4 plasma TVs in the lunch room that are never on, nobody can hear anyway, and kids throw stuff at! Thatll do it 4/4
AManisNotACamel
The system is broken, dude.
pookieeatworld
Quite a rant, there...
SomeDetroitGuy
The US spends well over $600 billion a year on education, mostly at the state level
MrStarkLord
As high per student as virtually any country in the world. 90 seconds of googling proves spending is *NOT* the issue. Just a lazy argument.
SgtThunderfistMD
You mean throwing money at a broken system won't fix it!?
futonrevolutionary
Maybe if you think you have a sound understanding something after 90 seconds, you probably need to do more research.
RoseTheSpecialEdTeacher
Spending is and issue. Not always about the amount, but where it's going.
MrStarkLord
That's true! But "we don't spend enough on education!" is objectively false, and the argument of the intellectually lazy.
RoseTheSpecialEdTeacher
Yep. Throw more money at a corript system will do nothing. But the brute force approach seems to be the most popular.