Rainbowdaesh
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AOC did an instagram live chat at 1:00am this morning and while you can find it and watch it, here are some of the major things that were said.
First of all, there is no plan to replace Biden, only a plan to get rid of him that's being led by the donor class and democrats who have not actually spoken to voters.
Second, this has almost nothing to do with the debate that hardly anyone watched. The major media publications were running stories about Biden being to old well before the debate, and it was massively lopsided in their coverage.
Third, the people wanting Biden out also don't want Kamala. They want a business friendly centrist who will do nothing for the working class.
Here is a link to the entire transcript.
https://x.com/petersterne/status/1814159970671161377
imjustheretoholdyourhandwhenyoudie
Thank you. I appreciate her perspective
tsiyeria
AyatollahBahloni
Ṣiva H. Viṣṇu I love AOC. We need many, many more like her. Vote Blue ballot-wide in November, and always. Just voting is not enough. Vote Blue.
TheOvy
I'm loyal to the cause. I'm not loyal to the candidate. I want the best candidate. I want a person who, when asked about abortion, can knock it out of the park, and not bizarrely pivot to "migrant killed a woman in Ohio," and "We finally beat Medicare." It's not just the donors. 2/3rds of Democrats want Biden to drop, and 70% of them are happy with Kamala taking the lead, if only because she can answer the goddamn question. Winning in November is more important than backing Biden at all costs.
TheOvy
If the argument that there'd be more chaos transitioning to Kamala, that's a fair discussion. But pretending that Biden's dismal and stubborn approval ratings, and his consistent inability to articulate the accomplishments of his administration, don't matter, is putting your head in the sand. These are real problems, having a REAL impact on voters, and something has to change.
xxPaulCPxx
My partner and I were JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS! Everywhere on the media is calling for him to step down, but there is no better alternative being proposed! He steps down like you want... then what? Who is being put forward? Have they won any primaries? How would that even work? For all the fascist aspects of the RNC, they at least know elections are something they have to contend with. DNC elite seem to think the vote is for the party line, they will take it from there.
YggdrasilG
It’s wild to see CNN’s tonal shift after the debate.
Before, it was all “This is the lies that he’s trying to peddle.
Now, and I’m not joking, they’re running headlines like: “Is new Trump different from old Trump” and “30+ Dem legislators new wave of defectors”
Rainbowdaesh
It's not surprising. At all.
Jangande
AOC is my favorite
TofuGolem
This is a coup by the donors against the voters, and the media will not report this as such.
Rainbowdaesh
Why would they report something they’re in on? (All of these were from before the debate)
walnutbreath
From reports, it's 5 donors and a collective $50 million in donations. No 5 unelected people should have this much influence over the party. And shame on the whores that are willing to risk losing everything (the election, democracy, and many of our lives) for such a paltry sum. I really wish AOC (or someone else) would start outing these assclowns so that we can start organizing to defeat them in their next primaries.
Seanspeed
No Dem politicians are changing their minds based purely on a few donors. They are simply reading the room and looking at all the polling that people like you are ignoring.
YeastInfectedWhiskerBiscuit
The news feeds are trying hard to claim that Biden is actually thinking of dropping out, or that he's been "more receptive" to the idea. Blah blah blah..No. Sorry, Biden has no plans to go anywhere anytime soon. Other than staying in the White House.
Seanspeed
Biden will likely drop out in the next week, but ok. He's always been a party guy, and even if he's upset over it, he has generally been good about being about the moment for the good of the party and country.
Seanspeed
Looks like I was right, no matter how much y'all downvoted me. Turns out I actually understand what's going on, unlike pretty much any of you clowns.
TheFunionKnight
They should've planned a successor at the start of his term now is too late
Seanspeed
They did, ffs. Kamala Harris was that gambit. But throughout Biden's presidency, they saw the terrible dislike of Harris in polling, and so realized she would not be the answer. Hence the refusal to step down right now, given Kamala is the obvious and most easy candidate to pass the torch to.
Dappin
Anyone still think the “Kamala Sucks” narrative ISNT propaganda is sorely mistaken. If this were about the integrity of the party platform and the continuation of Biden’s vision, we would all be thrilled at the idea of the backup plan of a President Harris.
Seanspeed
Y'all are so fucking blind and naive, as usual. Living in your little echo chambers separated from the real world. Kamala has huge electability issues. She's simply not well liked. Replacing Biden with her could maybe swing things a little bit, but ceiling is pretty low. It'll probably be what happens anyways, just cuz it's the easiest move to make, but she'll likely still lose. Dems have a BIG gap to make up in swing states.
HonestCommentFarmer
I think it's helpful to reexamine her 2020 campaign. Now, I admit this article focuses on the negatives, but it's a good eulogy for what happened. https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/03/politics/kamala-harris-ends-presidential-bid/index.html
Neferium
You mean all these big corporate news sites pushing for his ouster aren’t on the level?!
AxelBeingCivil
Biden's polling has only improved with time and AOC is rad. That said, get off Xitter, stop giving ol' fascist Musky your clicks.
Seanspeed
Biden's polling is literally worse right now than ever. Why are you fucking lying? Aggregate polling shows Trump having a bigger lead over him in swing states post-debate and assassination attempt, which is what really matters most here. Biden is quite far behind overall.
AxelBeingCivil
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/ - Not according to this. Trump's gotten a small bump since the RNC, but Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina... They're all fairly consistent and the general trend is towards better polling, not worse, where it changes at all.
Seanspeed
I see you're incapable of reading a fucking basic ass chart, or are just hoping nobody will check and see that you're lying about it. It literally shows that Trump's lead has increased since the start of the month. Jesus christ, and people are downvoting me and upvoting your lies. We're fucking doomed with this kind of crap coming from the side that's supposed to be more rational and honest. smh
HonestCommentFarmer
Yeah, she posted her thoughts to instagram. Clip from that.
Ultratoxic
I would very much like for "Democratic leadership" to shut the fuck up about Bidens age.
Seanspeed
It was the people who demonstrated so much concern about his age. Dem politicians are simply reacting to that. They can see which way the winds have swung. We needed to stop the overreactions much earlier on, but it wasn't possible. People and the media were in a frenzy over it. Damage is done. Dem leadership now needs to accept reality and think about the election as a whole, including all the downballot races.
Dappin
Harris/AOC 2024.
rshini
AOC needs more experience, and there's too many people who hate the idea of women doing anything
Seanspeed
I've warmed to AOC in recent years. I mean, I never disliked her, but she played a bit too much into the abrasive outsider early on, and has since learned a lot about playing friendly with the party. She almost feels distanced from 'the squad' nowadays and that's to her benefit. That said, first impressions matter and she's likely a little too tarnished to be a Presidential candidate, or actually help enough as a VP ticket. I think she'll do well being a progressive leader in the House.
GWJYonder
To me this is a ton like the Republican response to healthcare. "We have to tear down the ACA!" "And what is your plan to replace it?" "... We'll totally figure that out later, pinky promise, just abolish the ACA and everything will be totes great"
Seanspeed
Democrats are very fucking obviously not going to be airing their specific plans to replace Biden. The optics of that would look horrible. Y'all really have no mind for politics whatsoever, do you?
enjin
The phrase "Donor Class" is and should be terrifying. Why are we not talking about this phrase more and we're just kind of accepting it like, "oh yeah, this is the thing we do"??
Seanspeed
"Why are we not talking about this more"? lol My dude, we cant do fucking shit til we get Dems a lot more power and wait until enough Conservative SC justices retire/die to change any of this. It's so dumb how people keep saying this shit. It doesn't help anything right now cuz we literally cant do anything about it. Largely thanks to people not showing up for Dems in the past, like in 2016.
Rainbowdaesh
Because the media only listens to the donor class since those journalists all either went to college with their kids or are failsons of the donor class themselves.
SuspiciousCactus
As a D voter, I appreciate her opinion but I strongly disagree. That debate was a bell that cannot be un-rung. Voters will stay home. And he will lose. He needs to step down willingly and have another morally and mentally fit person as the nominee. If you look at voter polls, he has almost no path to victory, while Conald has 8-9. And his defeat will trickle down to also hand them Congress and Senate majorities and then this whole democracy experiment is over.
rshini
who will replace him, WHO FUCKING WHO
SuspiciousCactus
Im amazed you're asking. As if his current state and standing is some impossibly high bar improve on. Have you been paying attention at all? The answer is: literally anyone else. Harris. Newsom. Hakeem Jeffries, AOC, Pete Buttigeg. Michelle Obama. Jon Stewart. Anyone who can finish a sentence can beat Trump. Anyone who didnt get lost on their way to the podium of the debate and show the world they are not mentally up to the job, will do better.
Seanspeed
This is not at all given. Replacing Biden will about potential upside, but nothing is guaranteed. The actual act of changing the candidate will be super messy, and potentially even legally challenged in a number of states, and name recognition for many alternatives will be poor, and with very limited time to change that. Make no mistake, replacing Biden will be a hail mary. But I do think at this point, it's really our only chance. We fucked up badly overreacting to Biden's debate.
Seanspeed
Harris is the easy choice. No alternative is gonna be great, but Biden's polling is getting worse and he is looking at losing every single swing state, without it really even being close. And unless Biden can deage and change people's perception of his age issues, then he's likely only capable of going further down in polling with any more slipups that will get amplified. It sucks, people fucked up badly by overreacting to the debate, and now we're left with a hail mary or else a loss.
Jarjarthejedi
I've been saying this the whole time. The ONLY politicians pushing for Biden's removal are the people who do not represent their voters. The actual progressives like Sanders and AOC (and Mark Kelly, from my state, who's less know outside of it) have been behind him the whole time. If you find yourself on the side of Fox News and paid for politicians and your opponents are Sanders and AOC and the like, check why the heck you have decided that's where you want to stand...
Seanspeed
You're straight up lying. Countless Dem voters are the ones who have been screaming about this loudly since the debate. Which is exactly what the Congressional reps have been reacting to. The donor situation is also critical because Dems do need money for campaigning all the downticket races, whether you like it or not. It matters in a world where money IS in politics. We have to play the game.
Seanspeed
Yea, we're fucked. Y'all have all completely fucking bucked reality in favored of some fantasy narrative. You're pushing conspiracies and convincing yourselves of narratives that have no basis in truth. We have certainly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, but it's cuz of the idiocy of people like y'all. Ones who would rather lie to themselves than face an uncomfortable truth and actually do something about it. This country is genuinely hopeless.
Jarjarthejedi
...Which "countless dem voters" are politicians pushing for Biden's removal? If you're gonna call me a liar, at least /pretend/ to read what I wrote first. Geez...
GuysJustWannaFish
"First of all, there is no plan to replace Biden, only a plan to get rid of him" and that's all we need to know. There is no "part 2"
Seanspeed
There's a lot of people working on a plan for replacement. Experienced Congressional Dems are not incompetent, ffs. Much of this work is going on behind closed doors and wont be getting aired out in public for obvious optics reasons.
Zreen
If they were serious about replacing biden as the nominee then they should've started the process and primary campaigning over a year ago
Margrave9000
Joe is the grassroots candidate. Working class voters trust Joe, they know that he's the guy with a track record of getting things done. There's no reason to rock the boat now.
Stick with Joe, he is the candidate who will defeat the Orange Nazi.
Seanspeed
You're just literally living in complete denial of reality. It's crazy. It's absolutely fucking crazy. It's not fair and I hate how badly everybody overreacted to Biden's debate, but as of right now, Biden is going to get completely demolished in the election, losing every single swing state and possibly even some blue states. Damage is done. He's no longer electable and there is no way to rehabilitate the perception of his age issues. It will not get better.
RockKickass
It’s not the donors it’s the polls, the ones in the swing states. Biden has been behind all year and the debate was his chance to change that and he didn’t. Those same polls that have him losing have the democratic senators tied or winning. Also his approval rate is in the low 40s and no president has been re-elected with it that low. I love Biden, I will vote for him, but those are the facts
Rainbowdaesh
For reference: https://x.com/DanaHoule/status/1811752232972390792
Rainbowdaesh
Yeah, I'm skeptical of the polls right now when one of them literally had Biden down with all white voters by only 4%. For reference that would lead to a more than 400 EV win for Biden if that's real.
Seanspeed
Aggregate polling is what you should be looking at. It's horrible. It's fucking grim as fuck. It shows Trump winning in one of the biggest landside victories since Reagan. Y'all dont get it. Young people hate Biden(since 2021 really), and independents and whatnot think he's some demented old fool. Combined with the cost of living issues, any Dem would have a tough time, but Biden is gonna get whalloped in every swing state.
Seanspeed
You cant play politics based on treating the population as reasonable and intelligent. Not even the left. Cuz Americans are genuinely fucking stupid people on the whole.
Rainbowdaesh
And virtually all of them have horrendous crosstabs. Also, stop lying. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/#:~:text=538%20uses%20polling%2C%20economic%20and,to%20explore%20likely%20election%20outcomes.&text=in%20our%20simulations%20of%20the,of%20no%20Electoral%20College%20winner.
51/49 aggregate isn’t “grim”, especially post assassination attempt AND RNC nomination.
RaziGrey
Inn other words the rich.. (yes.. BoTh SiDeS) want trump or someone like him. Spout all the shit they want but in the end money and power are the only thing they care about.
Seanspeed
This is not it. It's PEOPLE who overreacted and started screaming and panicking about Biden after the debate. And with that, the damage was done. Biden basically immediately became unelectable. Congressional Dems are simply reacting to this, realizing the reality of the situation. Cuz they are actually very experienced and understand how elections work. And they are worried about donors, cuz they need money to campaign for downticket races, or else Congress is lost, too.
Seanspeed
You dont have to like the 'money in politics' things, but until we change this massively, it is how the current game is played, and it'd be stupid to put ourselves at even further disadvantage against Republican funding.
Ironferrox
Yep replacing Biden will make the Democratic Party look weak it will give republicans untold amounts of political ammo to argue that Biden 1 wasn’t a legitimate officeholder and thus Trump should win by default. If dems remove him the argument will be that if the democrats were incompetent t enough to let an incompetent man run the oval
Office for this long they are incompetent as a party and have no right to even have any power at all.
Ironferrox
Theme argument to pull Biden is basically a psyop to turn democrats voters against their only choice or even better make the party look weak for having to pull a sitting president and best out in someone that is just a Republican with a D next to their name.
The DONORS are just wanting democrats to shoot their own party in the head. Also if thy do pull Biden on the demands of the donors this will make democrat voters realize their reps and sens have no interest representing them but instead
Ironferrox
Represent only corporate insterests thus driving further democrat voter apathy. (Both sides are the same logic which honestly if the donor pandering democrats are just forwarding corporate interests the only difference between them and republicans is the pride pin they wear to queerbait while still voting to criminalize the lgbtq+ community. )
Ironferrox
But yea this is all for one purpose sabotage democrats and put trump
In office and I guarantee those donor serving democrats would be just as happy hieling the Cheeto Fhruher as any Republican as long as they keep getting their palms greased by corporations they could givee a shit less if America gals to fascism. All they care about is money and their self serving interests.
CorvidPrime
I hope she chooses to run for president someday (not this election, but definitely in the future). I would vote for her.
GriffinMann41
I would too, but the issue is, like one guy above in the comments said, Democrats can only put forth moderate candidates. Not really actually by any fault of the DNC itself, but because the Democratic party is like, 40% moderates, 40% conservatives who aren't insane like republicans, and 20% actually progressives. They *have* to put forth a candidate palatable to all of the base under their tent, or else they don't stand a chance in an election. This is also why they're sticking with Joe, RN
Seanspeed
The party is not 40% conservative, ffs. It's more like 60% moderate, 30% progressive, and 5% conservative. If young people actually voted, these numbers would look a lot different. But until it does, then yes, moderate candidates are more likely to win(it has nothing to do with the DNC, either).
SomeDetroitGuy
Once she gets some executive experience, sure. I'd love to see her as, say, Secretary of Labor in a Whitmer administration.
Rainbowdaesh
She is doing a ton of oversight work in congress right now and has learned a massive amount of how things work in that regard.
For reference, this was literally how Truman learned the ropes.
SomeDetroitGuy
Harry Truman was also Vice President, a judge and a senior officer in the military. We have quite a few amazing options for experienced, progressive, well-liked Democrats. I could definitely see AOC being a great candidate in like 8 years after having some experience actually running things.
Rainbowdaesh
I want her to lead committees in congress once the democrats take control over it again. Jeffries is an OK speaker but until the centrists stop being controlling assholes (when it's clear they have no actual plan) it's not looking like she'll become speaker.
BarnegatLight
I would too, but you underestimate the number of misogynists and racists in this country. Neither she nor Kamala would ever win.
Margrave9000
Why, exactly, do those ppl still have a vote?
Seanspeed
Not even that. She's a socialist. She would push away so many independents and moderates, and young people would, as they always do, fail to show up in big enough numbers.
Fuckimgurcunts
Shit I'll campaign for her.
Seanspeed
Cool. Too many others wouldn't, though. Y'all all called Hillary a 'terrible' candidate because of electability issues and people not liking her. Well guess what? AOC is in the exact same situation, if not worse. Because most of the people that like her are also the younger demographics who have a huge tendency to not show up on election day.
Aaaurelius
We've got to overturn Citizens United and take billionaire money out of politics. Rich people should not be the driving force behind any national policy. Some fantastic call outs here from AOC. Also, anyone trying to let rich people decide policy, like Trump, Menendez, Musk, and folks trying to push Kamala out, can get bent.
SavageDrums
The wealthy are the entire problem.
TheJuiceLoosener
I think the outcome of CUNT v FEC is a train wreck. That said, I haven't heard how it could have been decided differently. If my friend and I share a view on an issue, why can't we each throw $50 in the kitty and have the holding entity also be able to engage in political speech & advocacy? Meanwhile, Disney owns ABC and gets to put whatever they want out there? How can those two be squared?
ztygs
But if billionaires can't legally bribe politicians that sounds like socialism! Or communism! Or like, some other bad 'isms! If a handful of billionaires can't decide the rules we must all play by, are you really free?
KillingTlme
We need to do away with the Supreme Court and come up with a non political solution
Seanspeed
I hate posts like this. "We've got to make sweeping changes that we literally dont have the power to make". It doesn't help anything at all. It's idealism that gets us fucking nowhere. Without actually getting a lot more people to vote and taking power away from Republicans, nothing can get done, much less MASSIVE stuff like you're saying. That's gonna take a liberal Supreme Court, and that's gonna be generations off if Trump wins, and still likely a decade even if he doesn't.
Aaaurelius
We are in an election year. Of course we can't change this today, but it's not a waste for politicians to platform on things they might actually be able to change after the election. Republicans pass terrible legislation all the time, and dems can do more than they give themselves credit for. Dem leaders will open the door to those changes by making the right argument to voters now. The ideas and platforms literally help get people out to vote.
Margrave9000
A Dem prez with popular support could pack the court or just dissolve it. They are traitors and corrupt oath breakers. Lost all respect and have no right to curb democracy and policies of leaders that have actually been elected by the ppl.
Kyzyl
remember that peacefully petitioning elected official for a redress of grievances was the compromise we made, as an alternative ...
lrateyourrig
Yeet all those motherfuckers
Ironferrox
If politicians won’t follow the will Of the people then well that’s why people should start building killdozers
CPTBRUMBL3Z
If she ran 2028 she'd clinch the primary. Hell, she'd draw plenty of GenY and Z into the Democratic party just to vote her in the primary. Let's hope we still have an America by then.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Bernie didn't. I don't have confidence she would. And she would have the same problem as Bernie - even if she drew out a lot of young people who weren't voting before, she'd lose a lot of the current Dem voters. It ends up simply not being enough votes. The US is nowhere near progressive enough to elect someone like Bernie or AOC right now.
Margrave9000
Absolutely. Though for that to happen, tRump must be defeated in November or there will be no more elections or at least womxn will lose the right to hold office.
Seanspeed
Jesus fucking christ y'all are beyond clueless. lol AOC will never, ever be President. She is NOT well liked across the broader spectrum of voters that she'd need to win the nomination. Y'all truly just live in echo chambers on social media, which is dominated by younger progressive types and get a COMPLETELY ridiculous idea of what the average person actually thinks. How have y'all not learned this yet? smh
Margrave9000
Fuck off, Nazi.
Seanspeed
Absolutely wild. Calling me a Nazi cuz I understand politics enough to know AOC is not ever gonna have the electability to be President. Any semi-informed person on politics would know this, but y'all are just reactionary morons who get all their info/news from Twitter/social media posts. I'm a progressive social democrat, for your information. Y'all really make me lose all hope in the progressive movement. So filled with reactionary idiots who dont know anything.
Margrave9000
A real progressive social Democrat would be supporting AOC.
You're a Nazi masquerading as a 'progressive social democrat', trying to sow dissent among progressives and attempting to discredit any Dem politician leaning to the Left even so slightly.
So, fuck off. Nazi.
CPTBRUMBL3Z
If there is one thing I've learned, it's that Democratic policies, ideas, and proposals are popular among voters if you do not mention they are Democratic policies (because automatic "hate the libs" crap). This also is true for more Progressive and Socialist policies, often enjoying majority or at least plurality support from last I recall a few years back and it would only have improved over time. AOC, meanwhile, knows how to message, unlike the DNC. She'd be a strong contender at minimum.
CPTBRUMBL3Z
Only reason anyone "doesn't like" her that isn't a kool-aid drowned corpse is because they don't know her and have only ever been exposed to corpo media and status-quo barely-centrist Dems who don't like the idea of rich people being a little less rich if it means a healthier, happier, more financially secure working class.
thrael
The only people I know that think Biden should step down are the types of people who take the major headlines at face value and don't think anything beyond what the press says. All of my friends who are more critical thinkers are going insane! This is a horrifying (and so far looking like its working) SOFT COUP.
Rainbowdaesh
Been posting this a lot lately. All of these articles in this graph were from BEFORE the debate.
TheOvy
Yeah, and they spent the last year doing non-stop coverage of Trump's criminal indictments, while doing regular articles about how Biden's economy is doing great. If the media had as much influence as y'all claim, Biden would be running away with the election in the polls. But no amount of media coverage -- good or bad - can ever be as damaging as Biden's debate performance. Remember, it's not enough for him to win a majority of Americans, he needs to edge out Trump in the swing states, and if
TheOvy
voters are too busy worrying about his age, or mad at him for inflation, or whatever else has happened the last four years, then it's real easy to see the stubborn MAGA base -- which will turn out for Trump no matter what -- overcoming the 40,000 margin of votes in Wisconsin, PA, Georgia, Arizona, etc. to win the Electoral College. It's time to get real: winning matters more than Biden.
BanadecCamberbootch
I didn't want him to run in the first place and I wish we had an open primary this time around. Absolutely fuck all to do with the donors: the undecided swing voters are easily swayed by optics, and his optics were bad the first time around and they're even worse this time. And yes, those optics are just as bad for Harris. Biden has about as good of a chance of winning this time as he did last time, which is to say that he wins based on how many people actively don't want Trump to be president.
Sonicschilidogs
Yeah, let's lose the incumbent boost...... Smart move
Seanspeed
Replacing Biden probably wont work, but as things are now, Biden's chances are approaching zero, and without any future anybody barring somebody creating a reverse aging serum tomorrow and fixing Biden's age perception issues overnight. We simply have to replace him and make a hail mary pass on a replacement. It's a long shot, but a long shot is better than just kneeling down and taking the loss.
TheZerax
Here's the thing though, I have a feeling that replacing biden wouldn't even be a hail mary pass unless they choose someone who is inarguably worse. Most people I know would vote for a microwaved ham sandwich rather than voting for trump. The ONLY thing that that will happen by replacing him would potentially gain voters. Either they aren't going to vote red anyway, OR they might be convinced by a half-decent non biden candidate.
TheOvy
That incumbent boost is currently -5 against a convicted felon. Politics has changed a lot in the last 8 years, and incumbency means a lot less now. Furthermore, Biden has gotten next to no credit for his administrations accomplishments, and it's mostly because he has rarely made media appearances, and sucks at communicating, a discrepancy on full display at the debate. He's just not a great campaigner anymore.
BanadecCamberbootch
If you're going to make that argument, you would need to have evidence to back it up. Biden is not polling like someone who has an incumbent boost. Polls are not always 100%, but Ipsos has Harris/Trump at 44 tied, SurveyUSA has M Obama/Trump 45 tied, and BigVillage has Biden/Trump tied at 41. Every single other poll has Trump up by 1-5 points. So here's the question; is your personal dedication to Biden, or is it to making sure Trump doesn't get office?
Seanspeed
Just go read r/politics man. It's like 95% of people who have been claiming Biden needs to stop down. Your anecdotal evidence is bullshit in the face of what many of us are seeing everywhere else. It doesn't matter that people were being stupid to panic over Biden after the debate, the point is that the damage is now done and Biden basically cannot win. There is no fixing this, he can only go down further.
gentleleader
Thank you- I’m so fucking sick of this Imgur circlejerk that Biden isn’t toast
justfillingthespace
Imagine being the sort of person to go to Reddit for political insight.
sadurdaynight
You realize most of those folks are bots or sock puppets, right?
Seanspeed
You sound no better than a Trump supporter with that kind of conspiracy garbage. Keep sticking your head in the sand. It will only lead to bad things.
sadurdaynight
You're right. It's completed unfounded fear-mongering. Not sure why I'd ever think of it.
Kyzyl
Democrats are once again working hard to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.
Slonato
Big tents are always full of rats.
Heavenissize17socks
We need to get rid of the GOP, period. Then we need our remaining senators president and representatives to understand that there's a shitload worth of work to be done And that they should either start hustling or start packing.
ptenopus
This is a deeper problem than just the GOP. The GOP are simply the gladiators of the wealthy elite class. You know them by name, Musk, Buffet, Bezos, Thiel, Patel, Khodsla, Koch, et. Al. To name just a few. The capture of the us government has been a slow steady process and they have been working on each branch step by step. they now own the supreme Court, they heavily influence both sides of the house and Senate, and they want the president in their pocket.
There won't BE a USA anymore.
CptNesquick
Let's not pretend this one's a freeby
jimmityjammity
In their head it's less morally reprehensible to be the near silent blockers of actual progress than to be the ones actively tearing it down. Even though they are bought and sold just the same as the other cunts. This isn't a 'both sides' but there are absolutely corrupt dickheads who are like this on the D side who are the driving force behind removing Biden.
historycat
It's always been that some democrats (Republicans who want to win Dem districts) have preferred seeing a republican win rather than a progressive Democrat.
That's why the Democratic party often loses.
richardstinks
RICH PEOPLE are once again working hard to maintain their interests by playing both sides.
cepacolusmaximus
when getting elected is all about fundraising, both parties do better when they keep things close. it's yet another reason to remove money from politics.
Seanspeed
It's not the PARTY, though. Go read r/politics. It's like 95% people calling for Biden to be replaced. The party is simply reacting to that, seeing the very obvious polling that looks largely like a Trump landside, and with little to no chance of that turning around now with all the damage that has been done. The overreaction to the debate from PEOPLE and the media caused all this. Experienced Dems are reading the writing on the wall at this point.
VashTehStampede
Reddit is 70% bots, fuck out of here with that trash.
Seanspeed
You're a bot. See how dumb that shit sounds. It's moronic cope from people who simply cant accept reality when it's not convenient. People like you are just as dumb as Trump supporters. Better intentioned, but absolutely just as fucking dumb.
VashTehStampede
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/164ex9n/what_percentage_of_reddit_are_bots/
Enjoy!
Ninjainslippers
First off, it's been hovering around the margin of error of polling 50/50 for this whole time. Second, dems have a few progressives, a good chunk of centrists who are looking to serve the country, and a good chunk of capitalists who don't care and just want the power. So there are divisions, and leftists are mad there's like 4 far-left reps. Republicans are all power hungry assholes so they can mobilize as a unit.
Seanspeed
You're straight up lying about the polling. Aggregate polling is showing Biden bigtime in literally every swing state, and a few blue states looking like they'll be in contention. All with Biden likely having no upside going forward, with any further slipups likely to be amplified like crazy by people and the media. He has to be replaced. It's not fair, but everybody overreacted about the debate, and now there's literally only one hail mary to make.
neithermenoryou
"Centrists looking to serve the country" are the exact moderates MLK Jr called out for being the reason everything is shit, and this is true here as well.
They would prefer a negative peace over any form of actual progress because that progress might slim their slice of the pie a little. They are very much for injustices because fixing them is just too much work and the people asking for it are just too emotional, they just gotta shut up and let the people benefiting from it deal with it.
StellarJay77
Democrats have always been divided by the politically moderate financially wealthy donors, and the rest (which includes progressives who don't have any other party choice). The rich donors don't want to be taxed like progressives want them to be (and frankly shoild be) but they also don't want to live under a fascist regime where they have to kowtow and kiss ass to keep their wealth. So they work to undermine any policies or politicians that they deem unfavourable to that end.
madjackwastaken
This would imply Democrats are anywhere near close to victory. With Biden down in every swing state, this just isn't true.
ptenopus
The jaws of victory are less jaws and more clumsy baby mouth
pres465
I kinda see it as snatching victory from defeat. I watched the debate. I felt lied to. Anecdotally I don't know anyone that felt like "Ridin' with Biden" was a winning strategy. Enthusiasm will win this election. One side has it right now. One.
Shizzstains
The side that has enthusiasm also has mental illness running rampant. Voters shouldn't need enthusiasm. They should fear the alternative to not voting.
tallyhoho
We see this time and again and normally I say, lay in the bed you made But too much is on the line right now for them to be fumbling the ball on the five yard line. We need to start yelling
Seanspeed
Yelling what? To keep Biden when his polling has fallen so far behind in literally every swing state? Y'all continuing to shit on the party for this are why Dems never have more power. Y'all dont understand how things work, tell people Dems suck, and then sit there like an idiot wondering why more people dont vote for them.
Ultratoxic
Polls mean jack shit these days. Dems have overperformed the polls every election since 2016. The worst thing the Dems could do now is introduce a new candidate and division. We should be yelling "shut the fuck up about Bidens age and start telling your constituents that it's Biden or fascism"
Also, not to rub it in, but more people DO vote for Democrats. Have in every election since dubbya the second.
IAmTheBadW01f
1. It's July, polls this far out are wild guesses at best
2. 538 is showing the election at 50/50 right now based on their aggregation of polls https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/
tallyhoho
Source please on the polls. I'm not saying dems suck, I'm saying we can't possibly put forth a serious contender in only three months to replace Biden
somerandomusernamething
France did it in a week and a half, UK did it in a month. Hawk tua girl didn't exist 3 months ago. This is the information age. 3 months is more than enough time
MCNewYorkLives
It's not the case that "they need more time" but rather that some peoplE (for some unknown reason) may end up changing their vote from today and a few months from now.
Rystefn
The DNC has made it clear for literally decades that they would rather have a Republican in the White House than someone actually worth a damn. Then people around here blame low voter turnout and other bullshit excuses because it's easier to rant "Vote blue no matter who!" than to admit where the actual fucking problem lies.
Seanspeed
Absolute bullshit lie. Low turnout is cuz of idiots like you constantly bashing the party and telling everybody how horrible they are. YOU are the problem. DNC is not this giant bogeyman, and aren't some puppeteers, either. It's also a wild bullshit lie that they'd rather have a Republican than somebody like Biden. It's so patently ridiculous and it's depressing how many fucking idiots on the left believe this kind of crap.
GamermanRPGKing
The main platform of Biden right now is "I'm not trump". The whole fucking party is running on "vote blue no matter who so you don't get the Boogeyman", but how long can that last? It's not a real position.
Seanspeed
Again, more bullshit lies. Biden had an outlined agenda in 2020 and has an agenda for his next term as well. This *perception* that this doesn't exist and they're only running on 'not Trump' is the same shit said about Hillary, which was similarly untrue. And pointing out how horrible Trump is entirely worthwhile and necessary. Some of y'all simply dont have any idea how anything works, and cause more damage by pushing ignorant rhetoric about Dems that makes people not want to vote for them.
GamermanRPGKing
You're mistaking individual policy with party policy...
JCBalance
The party isn't running on that. Imgur memes aren't the party.
MacEifer
What jaws of victory? Biden's numbers were already one-term-president level before the debate. They're just getting worse. He needs to be 8-9% up from now by this time in the race, but he ain't.
Seanspeed
Seriously, nobody here seems to actually be paying attention to what's going on. Just going by emotional judgements. Things are looking fucking grim. Replacing Biden wont necessarily guarantee better chances, but as of right now, it's looking pretty hopeless.
HissyElliott
Nobody on Imgur ever pays attention. They just rage bait and fear monger always all of the time
Seanspeed
I'd take fearmongering over this current attempt at placation and complete denial of reality. I dont mind fearmongering if it's warranted. Cuz it's absolutely warranted right now.
friendsofsandwiches
Remember when the DNC went with Hillary over Bernie because of money issues? THIS is their new Hillary movement.
Seanspeed
God damn y'all are still pushing this absolute pig ignorant, horseshit? Fucking clueless motherfuckers, I swear. DNC didn't elect Hillary, people did. Same with Biden. Y'all simply overestimated Bernie's popularity. Not to mention Dems all largely weren't gonna be thrilled backing somebody who is literally an outside and doesn't identify as a Democrat, ffs.
SomeDetroitGuy
The DNC went with Hilary over Bernie because Hilary got vastly more primary votes than he did.
PhailRaptor
Yes, she did... after the controlling elements of the party figuratively shanked him from behind and pushed him down the stairs
Seanspeed
The remaining Bernie supporters still pushing this garbage are no better than Trump supporters in my eyes. Pushing bullshit 'rigged election' nonsense just cuz you cant accept your person got beat. It's pathetic.
rshini
Shut the fuck up, even Sanders deny it, y'all made a woman won over an even older man
Jarjarthejedi
Please stop pushing this false narrative. It helps no one. Even Sanders has openly refuted it. It started as literal Russian propaganda. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3443916
unremarkableasterisk
Remember when the DNC went with Hillary over Bernie because Hillary and Bill have been long term members and active participants in the Democratic party and Bernie just comes around every 4yrs looking for a handout from the Democratic party that he doesn't belong to. Yeah, I remember that.
Rainbowdaesh
VashTehStampede
Yeah, too bad that Hillary did so poorly that she lost to Trump.
Seanspeed
Bernie would have gotten destroyed against Trump. It's so hilarious to me how many people just cannot understand that popularity on social media does not translate to popularity in the real world.
VashTehStampede
Your opinion; only worth what I paid for it.
Seanspeed
It's not my opinion. Somebody who cant win a Democratic primary is not going to win against a Republican candidate with a ton of enthusiasm behind them. You're fucking out of your mind if you think otherwise, and have simply spent too much time online in echo chambers, massively overestimating Bernie's popularity.
unremarkableasterisk
And Bernie lost to Hillary.
VashTehStampede
Hillary wasn't popular. She should have begged Bernie to be her running mate.
rshini
and what would Bernie brought, idiotic fanboys who didn't bother to actual vote, or check if they're registered to the right party? An inability to screen his workers, as boy he hired some real whackjobs in '16
unremarkableasterisk
She was unpopular for a couple of reasons, I don't know if Bernie on her ticket would have put her over the top.
rk57957
this statement is inaccurate as she won the popular vote and won most of the DNC primaries. A more correct statement was Hillary was not popular enough in specific areas of the country to when the electoral college vote.
Taxicat
Yet Bernie still lost to her.