NlGHTW0LF
120415
2871
192
Jan 4, 2017 7:11 AM
NlGHTW0LF
120415
2871
192
JayBirdyy
America is like on of the teens on sweet 16. Has way too much money way too young and so spends it like a fucking window licking retard.
bender211
To be fair, I got way more trim in the military than I ever did at college. So, I'm good for another 80 Billion...
sprout92
But it's not $33 to each tax payer...nothing for like 90% of them, and quite a bit for the rest.
Kerbe7335
This! All day long.
footfoe
Mentioning iraq. How old is this? The parties have switched sides on how they feel about interventionalism.
Prism962
I'd like to point out that this issue is much more complicated than anyone likes to realize. It goes much beyond cost.
selfmadecurve
I think citizens inability to understand the difference between a lot of money for a person and a lot of money for a government, is quite /
selfmadecurve
A problem. Naturally people work with numbers there use to which just isn't applicable to government of any large nation
xRocketman52x
Pretty cool if we didn't pay for any of these things and instead started to worry about our 20 trillion dollars of debt. Twenty. Trillion.
brillantmc
Most, most of which is owed to the American people
BurnerAccount626
Additional Note, DoD Funds also cover GI Bill costs, so its also paying for college. #CoolFax
SirBrendan
America's greatest weakness is how insular their imperial pride has made them. They never seem to compare what works elsewhere vs theirs
Hetuni
We do. And people will go "Well, socialism can't succeed because you'll run out of other people's money!" and stuff like that.
Abecx
I find it sad how many people believe secondary education is a requirement for success or intelligence. You're just victimizing yourself.
penultimatewarrior
Of course it's not necessary, and it's not for everyone, but a more educated populace with learned critical thinking is a benefit for all.
slamdance7
Easy on the math and facts there, buddy! This is 'Murica!
CapableTechnology
I'm against paying for someone else's college tuition, however that is a good point and prompted me to rethink why I'm against it. Thanks op
ImRandyMarsh
The DoD spent approximately $664.84 billion in 2011
greendean
Dinner and sodas at a mediocre restaurant is $333? Where the fuck do YOU live??
penultimatewarrior
in the real world where he actually only wrote $33, presumably
IronCretin
$33
greendean
doh! sorry, misread.
Snootfullofhoneybees
It's really hard to get excited about this when you live in an area that already has huge tax rates as it is and you see giant chunks of you
Snootfullofhoneybees
Your check and bonus gone that I never get back, and somehow with the price of everything still try to just make sure you have enough for fo
Snootfullofhoneybees
For living and food everyday. (would love to move out of here, but you know... That costs money!) So yeah... That money WOULD be missed.
Snootfullofhoneybees
Ugh I switched from third person to first there... Sorry...
LionOfRome
I'm fairly sure Americans just view Taxes as being some pseudo hippy communist socialist trick. They can be good ):
bridgebrain
The real issue most people I know have with taxes is that they go to pockets instead of what they're supposed to
ChiefBeefyBoner
In america we only have the illusion of freedom. In fact freedom is our biggest oppression
caboops
You're 14 years old and that is deep right?
ChiefBeefyBoner
Nah it's just been something I've been thinking about during bouts a crippling depression
JollyJokzr
An educated population earns more and pays more taxes. It's an investment.
BurnerAccount626
The plan involved raiding my daughters 529k plan that I started with my Grandmothers Will money she left me. It would have taken 1.5-2% (1)
BurnerAccount626
of the 4-6% at most it was expected to gain, in essence, minus inflation of 2.5% on avg, steal HALF of MY DAUGHTERS college money for (2)
BurnerAccount626
someone elses, effectively forcing me her father to pay for MY daughters college, as well as someone elses, effectively creating (3)
BurnerAccount626
my daugthers competiton in college, further degrading the value of her college degree, my hard work, and her Great grandmothers Final Gift.
Fastcart4
My problem with this isn't the cost, But the idea that college is necessary to be successful.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
That isn't the idea at all though. The program doesn't mandate college, it creates an opportunity for those who might not be able to have 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
one otherwise. To quote Horace Mann, "Education then, beyond all other devices of human origin, is the great equalizer of the conditions 2/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
of men, the balance-wheel of the social machinery." It should be available if desired or needed, which won't be the case for everyone. 3/3
squip
Having just high school makes you FAR less likely to succeed, but doesn't mean you necessarily won't.
Fastcart4
This may be true but going to college just to go is a joke. A good 75% of the grads I know can't find or don't want a job with their degree.
Fastcart4
So they have 30-40k in student debt and a fancy framed diploma that they are not using.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm The people you know aren't representative of the experiences of the majority of Americans
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
Not trying to sound like a dick or anything, just stating the actual realities of the labor market.
Fastcart4
If you could limit that data to Americans under 30 you would get a better picture of what Ike talking about.
squip
Perhaps we are using the word "college" differently. In Canada, college includes vocational school, such as for an electrician or plumber.
Fastcart4
Some job related training is beneficial, I do have vocational training, but that goes back to what I was saying about not going to school
Fastcart4
Just to go, but going in pursuit of a career and not ending up with a useless degree.
Turrible
One cruise missile currently costs around $1million. Just let that sink in.
xzhous
Less expensive than a Cruz missile, which costed more than $100 million
TheClayKnight
Screw that, I'm not letting a cruise missile sink into the ocean, it costs $1 million!!
SomeFurryTrash
What the fuck does the sink want now
NobodyThoughtThisWouldBeAThing
mestifo
Even if we funded free college, wouldn't that just further devalue degrees? It's already proven that college isn't a requirement for success
squip
A worthwhile point to consider. I'd add that such education should include trades, and not just academics.
IronCretin
It's not a zero sum game. It's about education. More educated people -> better economy.
NutSlice5K
So how did the person respond to that? I always want to see the aftermath of someone getting told
Vortex153
I'm sure completely rational.
AntennaDibb
if they're smart, they delete the post, block you, then repost it. if they're stupid, they just call you a brainwashed sheeple.
ionlyspeakthetruth
The person usually doesn't succeed but rather crams their head further up their ass in search of more shit to puke onto their keyboard.
KharnApproves
I'm sure the term 'libtard' was used.
creatineshits
Smart money says they deleted the post immediately.
OfMiceAndMenus
They are still recovering in the burn unit. It is rumored Bill Nye was responsible for their admittance.
Bbbrrr000ccckkk1
I made similar responses to similar posts and the argument quickly devolves to the principal of the matter being they want to choose 1/2
Bbbrrr000ccckkk1
where their money goes and not some bureaucrat. Which you can't really argue with since they want to remain selfish. 2/2
chevelio
"Hur hur commie Muslim socialist hurr hurr." Followed by grunts, growls, and pounding of his chest.
carbolicious
If my father is any example then it'd be "That's what the libtard media wants you to think".
Alwayskneph
Does he also always "know a guy" who just so happens to be the grand master on whatever your talking about and that's why you're wrong?
HarryHamwallet
ya these people say this shit about liberal media bullshit all the time then go back to watching some guy claim Obama is a lizard person...
RuthlessRuben
Ah yes, the beauty of the conspiracy theorists mind.
Blarghd
Reminder: Sadam Hussein murdered 5-8 hundred thousand Iraqis
pvtwestbrook86
And how many has the US killed? And Iranians, Saudi, Lybian, Egyptian, and so on.
GiantRobotsRule
And how many people were/are killed by the Kim Jong's & all the warlords throughout Africa? Should USA invade every place run by bad people?
Blarghd
Yes
Cataleast
I wonder how many people have died in the US due to not being able to afford proper healthcare though?
caboops
Look up that number for yourself and prepare to be shocked.
BeigeGandalf
This makes college just like public high school in my opinion. It de-values degrees. Fun idea, but money doesn't guarantee success.
gordy77
Neither do degrees
melovinci
Degrees are already de-valued, yet still required. At least people won't be as indebted for the first 20 years years out of college.
Genemanipulation
Take a look at Scandinavian countries. Almost everyone goes to free public schools, education is greatly valued and it shows.
caboops
And they have exactly 0 of the worlds best schools. We have over 80% of the top 25. They also have a homogenous population.
squip
Yeah, it's not like other countries do this with fantastic success.
TheGodOfBeards
More people having an education does not devalue having one yourself.
NineNineThree
Not that I'm for BiegeGandalf's argument, but he is right in saying degrees become superfluous if everyone has one.
Cataleast
But why should a degree be some fabled, rare creature? Would it not benefit everyone for everyone have a higher level of education?
NineNineThree
That's just me playing devil's advocate though. I'm still for tax funded education since it improves society as a whole.
caboops
Improves society to the point where Someone spends 20 years educating themselves on tax money to get a job flipping burgers.
TheGodOfBeards
More people will have them not everyone. And then there is the level of degree u get and ur major and ur grades. Ur right to a point.
NineNineThree
Yeah, I just saw the guy getting downvoted and wanted to try and elaborate on what I believe he meant.
TheGodOfBeards
Oh that's cool. I will go throw him a green arrow as well. Very cool of you. You get an arrow also.
region12sec
$80B over 10 years so $8b per year or $25 per person per year to have everyone go to college. Not everyone should go though.
eatyourmeat
So you're saying it will actually be cheaper
region12sec
I factored in every person in America, not just taxpayers so our denominators are different.
TheGodOfBeards
Not everyone will go. But everyone will have the opportunity to go if they so desire.
region12sec
Yep. That should be the goal
SuperRockinMrMagic
I think this was only for trade schools, which we should encourage because I agree not everyone should go to college
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
That value is way off the mark. At best it would be for 2 years of community college, but as we know gov't always underestimates costs.
TheGodOfBeards
And that's the truth. I've tried to explain this to people. If you ever plan to have a child or two, it works out to your benefit.
dvs2nite
actually bro those fucking things eat like goddamn locusts. watch a 200$ a month grocery bill go to 800$+ and thats only one tiny fucking
dvs2nite
aspect of paying for a new capitalist to enter the system.
Dondarian
I had an ex that flat out refuses, vehemently, to even consider Bernie's Socialist Health Care. She couldn't fathom that paying more in 1/2
Dondarian
taxes would also mean that insurance premiums would vanish.
Cyberpunk262
even if you dont plan on having children i would like to live in a country where the youth have the knowledge to change the world.
GodTurkey
I tried to explain this to my parents and they just refused to believe it.
xzhous
If you don't plan on having children but you plan on living around people whose children are educated, also works out to your benefit! :D
Brionyrae
Anything remotely socialist and everyone's like NUP.
BananaForScaIe
Math is simple: 30% increase in salary = 80BB is paid back in ... 10 years. The remaining 30-40 years of extra $ = free gov revenue.
LinearAlgebro
It's not a logical argument though. Just because we spend a ton in 1 area doesn't mean we can't save in another. Why not spend less on both?
aguacatedeldiablo
Because at some point, spending less money leads to a worse result.
tetracycloide
Nothing illogical about it. Just because you want smaller government doesn't make every argument for government spending illogical.
LinearAlgebro
"We spend $ in X, therefore we should in Y" is not a logical argument. It doesn't explain why Y is important, and X has nothing to do with Y
tetracycloide
When someone demonstrates they don't grasp the amount of $ at stake it's perfectly logical to put it into context with "we spend $ in x."
strangelyaddicting
I don't ever plan on having kids. It still works out to my benefit... more intelligent youth = better lives for everyone.
MommaLocks
AGREE!
providedlava
It's sad that so many people don't understand this.
strcmdman
More thought provoking and concise internet posts.
strcmdman
More thought provoking and concise internet posts.
TheGodOfBeards
Agreed.
DirtyWizardsBrew
People in the US are brainwashed into bitching about this shit. Corporate welfare/over-inflated military budget (over 50% of the budget) 1/2
tittiemcjiggleboots
Discretionary spending budget not the actual budget is over 50% military.
ComeOnManYouHadOneJobToDo
Here is the problem. People only look at it one way or the other. What happens if this is signed, plus we continue with war?
ComeOnManYouHadOneJobToDo
Now you're paying for everything plus $160 bil in bullshit.
aguacatedeldiablo
I'll pay an extra $100/year, now you and someone else can just complain about military spending.
ComeOnManYouHadOneJobToDo
No complaining here. Just pointing out that most debates are either or, they never consider both being in play.
DirtyWizardsBrew
? YES PLEASE! Tax money allocated towards infrastructure, education, or healthcare? FUCK YOU!!! Pretty much how it is...
picturefan73
Nah they call you a damm comie first
DirtyWizardsBrew
or a libtard, or a cuck...
mithiwithi
Reminder: this proposal only was about community college, that's why it's so cheap.
tittiemcjiggleboots
Yeah the point was to get a greater % of vocationally trained workforce. Not just Jr college but trade schools bc most jobs need college ->
tittiemcjiggleboots
By 2016 (projection from 2010 to 2016 actually) Also college don't mean bachelor's/university. Then there are certificates vs degrees
jshimoskie
Just like @OP 's Mom
Orangeracecar
It's still good
Tehadam
That would still suffice, if you complete your gen eds at a CC, then complete get a degree at uni, the cost is reduced massively.
hitheremynameisshook
That's what I did. Graduated with a 3.5. Got a $7000 scholarship on top of a $5300 pell grant. I recommend it to kids out of high school.
DataBender
Community college in california started out as a free institution
[deleted]
[deleted]
KSVagrant
That's more than two months rent for me. People working low exp. jobs don't exactly have $1800 just lying around.
[deleted]
[deleted]
KSVagrant
Don't move the goal posts. If you have to take out a loan on something it most definitely isn't "close to free."
SidneyHarbor
OK, I'll rephrase. I know people who have gone to college with far less money than the median. They didn't bitch, they just DID.
ZombieSteve
Close =/= Free. Here, a Liberal Arts Degree is 61 credits at $148 per credit in county. That's $9,028 over two years, $4,514 a year, (1/?)
ZombieSteve
or $2,257 a semester. For my state, which has a higher min. wage then federal average, after taxes a full time min. wage worker only (2/?)
ZombieSteve
brings home $13,701 a year. To pay for in county tuition, that's roughly 33% of their yearly income. Free community college (3/?)
ZombieSteve
would sure go a long way for someone like that, trying to better themselves with a college education. (4/4)
Generallydontcare
Its just more liberal bullshit. Im surprised your logical post wasnt downvoted to oblivion.
MasterofNoneSon
It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative it's called math.
Generallydontcare
Meth.
DanLeahy
Idk after watching Community it doesn't seem too bad
PascalsBookie
education quality at some community colleges is the same as a university. however, your prof didn't publish as much.
DanLeahy
I was referring to the NBC show of the same name "Community", not the actual college system in Merica
PascalsBookie
sorry, i don't read too good and had a bone to pick with US education system (the idea that more expensive = better)
eatyourmeat
Get scholarships, n00bs
tittiemcjiggleboots
Entire point of scholarship is that it is exclusive. Either in need or merit only few can have it. 20+ million US college students currently
eatyourmeat
The rest will just have to pay for their degree like everyone who had bad grades before them
tittiemcjiggleboots
If every had "good" grades who has the merit to be awarded scholarship? There has to be "winners" &"losers".
xzhous
Need-based aid shouldn't be confused w/ merit-based scholarships. Two different entities
tittiemcjiggleboots
Yes but many schools even for merit based scholarship there is need-based criteria to qualify. I work for a major public university
xzhous
Ah, okay. I gotcha now.
mithiwithi
Scholarships don't solve the problem of having a globally competitive workforce. 1/2
mithiwithi
We can't compete with the third world on labor cost, so we have to compete on quality. 2/2
tittiemcjiggleboots
You can't develop quality without "training" IE education. College becomes a necessity, therefore college cost rises.
mithiwithi
All the same, the US no longer needs ditch diggers. It needs backhoe factory workers and backhoe drivers, and a lot fewer of those. 1/2
tittiemcjiggleboots
Higher earnings from "quality workforce is meaningless when the workers are chained to student debt. Opportunity cost for university toohigh
SnookerSylph
I did get a scholarship, and then went to community college because it's still cheap as fuck. I need a bachelors, doesn't matter in what
eatyourmeat
Kinda does if you want to get hired
SnookerSylph
Not if i plan on going into the air force as a commissioned officer
eatyourmeat
If you want to fly it does
tittiemcjiggleboots
You ideas about "why ppl go to college" are misplaced.
markus242005
Reminder: Free community college is better than no college.
prettierandyoungerbutnotanybetteroff
With the education I got at community college, I make nearly double the median household income for my town. I'm an RN.
KillingTlme
Community college is already >90% free. Students only pay for 10% of their class costs and accessories.
KSVagrant
Yeah 2k a quarter for books and classes... totally free
KillingTlme
Wow, you must be taking 20+ units, congrats on the 3 semester transfer.
KSVagrant
Nope, 15 creds, transferred to uni two years ago
Generallydontcare
God forbid you work for your education you whine ass.
KSVagrant
I worked every day after class to help pay for my tuition in CC, fuck off with your disingenuous assertions
markus242005
Amazing statistic. You know what it isn't? 100% free.
pennetteAlfredoIsNotAnItalianDish
Seriously, I don't understand what's in muricas' minds when it comes to free health care and free education. I have experienced both 1/2
justpointingouttheobvious
In a country where people media has brainwashed people into thinking socialism is a bad word, what do you expect exactly?
IHaveAllTheKoalafications
Medicare and the VA are used as an example of what gov run Healthcare would be and the horror stories scare people.
aclarko
This. Defund to the point of incompetence to sway public opinion. It's really fucked up that vets/elderly/disabled get shat on like this.
xzhous
In recent years, partisan politics. College educated voters tend to lean left since 2004.
caboops
And, just like the generation that brought us Woodstock, when they begin working careers they lean more to the right.
xzhous
I'm not here to tell you how they'll trend in the future, just that there is criticism that higher ed is a bastion for liberal beliefs
caboops
As they say "Those who cannot do, teach."
GeauxTiggers
Education has always been a liberalizing factor, that's not disputed. What people don't talk about is that the right has waged a war 1//
GeauxTiggers
Against education in order to gain votes and we are seeing the fruits of their labors end
squip
Long, long years of continuous non-stop brainwashing against anything "socialism".
UrsaUrsa
Exactly https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JI29ccohFCPowxi/giphy.gif
pennetteAlfredoIsNotAnItalianDish
2/2 systems, private and public, in and out of Europe and trust me, free healthcare means being fear-free. It makes YOU FREE.
TamponShotgun
Nah according to the GOP free healthcare would mean the government will turn into communist Russia & we'd start using the word "proletariat"
CommanderWilliamTRiker
Except, it's not free....
CorvusBelli
Might want to look up the word "colloquialism", chief; no-one thinks it's literally free.
CommanderWilliamTRiker
Glad you speak for everyone!
CorvusBelli
Once again, chief; colloquialism.
thesmelge
Communism. They're afraid that if they pay for something, a poor person might use it. They earned the money, so nobody else should be helped
thesmelge
Usually the argument is "BUT WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO WORK GETTING IT FOR FREE". Because fuck everyone else, right?
CameToCommentandChewGumImAllOutOfGum
Because most Americans are ignorant and think this is what FREE means
noobwarlock
Because most people who live in places where they get "free" shit have no idea what free means.
aclarko
This. "Mah freedom of speech, brah!"
Cataleast
It never ceases to baffle me that there are people living in a 1st world country, who have to ponder if they can afford to stop being sick.
SmilingSamoyed
There are dozens of us who think alike
HighlySexualLobster
Mix of reasons. Our rednecks are descendants of Ulster Scots who fled state sponsored persecution. They have little love for big government.
HighlySexualLobster
The Cold War created a lasting distrust of communism, and anything approaching collectivism, i.e. socialism.
CorvusBelli
So . . . wouldn't they prefer that government was spending all of its money on healthcare/education rather than weapons?
HighlySexualLobster
Oh you can be exlcuded http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/books/review/when-affirmative-action-was-white-uncivil-rights.html
HighlySexualLobster
We also lost our taste for public institutions; pools, housing, education, healthcare, right after the civil rights movement.
kawwmoi
I actually just got hit with a $27,000 doctors bill last week. I only make about $18,000 a year. Really wish I could afford healthcare.
ultradongle
See if you can get a "one time hardship" waiver from the hospital. My wife did this when her appendix had to come out and we 1/2
ultradongle
were both still in college. She paid like $120 out of a $22,000 bill. Call the hospital at least and explain situation. 2/2
kawwmoi
The hospital's attempting to get me retroactivity enrolled in Medicare.
UrsaUrsa
What happened to you to get a $27k bill? I'm really curious, that number sounds baffling to me...
LostLogic12
He probably needed a band-aid. Kidding aside, Healthcare in the US is fucking expensive as shit.
kawwmoi
My appendix ruptured and had to be removed.
Locolarue
What is your plan to control costs and ensure quality?
GiantRobotsRule
Making a thing a public service instead of private doesn't necessarily hurt quality and it does help lower cost(look at Medicare vs private)
Locolarue
If government run healthcare is so great, why are there so many charities and organizations to help veterans?
GiantRobotsRule
Do you realize there is a difference between government-run and government-funded?Government run INSURANCE beats private.CARE can be private
Locolarue
So, again, how do you propose to control costs and ensure quality?
GeauxTiggers
Are you implying that our current system keeps costs down? Or controls quality?
Locolarue
Why would nationalizing these industries improve them?
GeauxTiggers
Nationalization provides several benefits including, lower to no costs, standardization of insurance, more oversight and standardization 1//
GeauxTiggers
Of health information and practices, to name a few:
Locolarue
Why would nationalizing these industries improve them for the taxpayer?