Jaqdakloun
60384
1189
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The material being sprayed is liquid "foam" that hardens into a hydrophobic surface which will be the new roof. It has to be sprayed on a dry, solid surface, and has to adhere to said surface. It will definitely adhere to the shingles, however, the shingles are loose, and easily come off the plywood they're supposed to be nailed to. This will cause the foam to shift, crack, and become completely ineffective. The homeowner insisted we leave the shingles on, even after being told by the foreman, our supervisor, and her supervisor, still, dude wouldn't budge. This roof is going to last only a few months and will have to be torn off and redone. Thank you for letting me bore you, but I don't have friends to rant to, be well and stay fresh cheese bags.
Finished product, the empty space Is for the AC unit, we were quite upset, we pride ourselves in our work, and this was just crap.
bottledham
I would have refused the job. It's going to cause more headaches in the future.
sleepchamber5772
How was he walking on shingles that weren't attached? Wouldn't they be moving?
ElbowDeepInAllTheThings
I guess the real question is why would the spray foam company take the job? Any job the customer demands be done incorrectly is a job worth walking away from.
badgerZ505
Ex-Commercial roofer here…this is very bad. Also my boss had a little cartoon picture in the office. It was a bum looking guy sitting on a bench, drinking from a bottle in a brown bag and looking sad. The caption said, ‘I took every job I ever bid on.’ Taking jobs like this is what causes the cartoon guy’s sorrow. Sometimes you have to walk away.
Snooj
I have fired customers in the past because their demands would not yield a product I wanted my company name to be associated with.
isetprettygirlsonfire
Oof. I hope you got all that in writing. Customer will 100% come back later bitching about shoddy work
PointlessNips
May I ask, if you guys pride yourself in your work why did you take the job? When the customer said he wanted work done that you guys couldn't guarantee you guys should have not done the job, because despite his stupidity it's still going to be your guy's name on the line
OppaGangnamPyle
So it's a shit product then is what you're saying. Wouldn't stand up to a hail storm is what I'm hearing.
FragileDonkey
I don't do work knowing it's going to fail. I wouldn't want my business to have a tarnished record for doing some shady shit like this or my name and reputation possibility ruined. Seriously, why tf would you do this if you knew it would fail? Some shady business practice.
Blud4BludGod
I can at least imagine plausible backstories that don't leave the company a lot of choice. Example- this could be work being done by a contracting firm that had a major reno booked with this client, just one job on a list of multiple, where the conflict didn't become apparent until work began. It's not as easy to back out when you've already repiped the house and installed new floors and now it's roof time but oh suddenly there's a disagreement and you haven't been paid yet.
Swampplatapus
Groovechild
Refusing the service is an option when reputation and experience are going to be called into question. As experts, your opinion and know-how are more important than the homeowner's wishes.
Koskun
I wouldn't of done the job. The liability is too great.
If it isn't in the contract that the client has to agree to the requirements for the instillation, and if they refuse, then you have the right to cancel the contract effective immediately. Any deposits are not returned (if applicable).
It could easily spiral out of control with lawsuits (client trying to sue you, counter-suit, defamation off the top of my head), not to mention whatever garbage the client spouts off against your company.
todaytomorrowwillbeyesterday
The roofer met all his contractual duties when he warned the customer of the fallibility of the product, when not installed per ASTM specs. I do hope he had the forethought to have a WRITTEN CONTRACT. With the warning stated. Even still, a judge will ask why they went forward. Never do subservient work for ANYONE for any price. These are the two kinds of people in construction, that make it difficult to service a client. "F" too you both... Both know better, just trying to screw the next guy....
ReturnOfActionCheese
Shingles aren't a thing in my country. Are they just laid straight on a ply sheet? How are they waterproof?
We11thatwasC00L
There is usually a layer of plastic or tar-based barrier between the wood and the shingle. The visible part of the shingle is only half of each piece, much like slate tiles or cedar shakes, they overlap significantly. Starting at the bottom of the slope, they are attached with nails into the plywood, the nails are driven through the shingle in the area that will be covered by the next row up. The shingle itself is mostly asphalt and pretty durable for a cheaper price than slate/ceramic options
weidermeijer
Well said.
dviking
You should probably be wearing a respirator. I'm not sure a shirt tied around your face is going to do much to mitigate the damage this product does to your lungs.
76000BatteryLlamas
You didn't have enough pride to refuse the job and not take their money, so get off your high horse
Sulexar
The fuck does needing to make a living and feed your family have to do with "pride"? Money from morons spends the same as all other money.
caledric
What makes you think it was OP's decision when his boss, his boss's boss, and his boss's boss's boss all told them to go ahead and do the roof.
SergeyPrkl
I would simply decline to do it. Even the law would prevent to proceed. Ofc i live in a country where there are minimum standards and laws.
adoptagreyhound
I don't understand why you didn't refuse the work. The homeowner didn't make you accept the job.
TaiPan87
Many companies are not in a position to refuse work, especially if they already have the crew and chemicals there.
Fractallergy
A gentle reminder, "no" is a complete sentence.
nevergoingtogiveyouupnevergoingtoletyoudown
I hope you gave the warning in writing and that they ignored it so when they come back later to say its your fault your ass is covered.
Filanwizard
What does this foam do? If the shingles are there the house already has a roof. If it needs insulation that goes on the inside.
chainmaille
"The material being sprayed is liquid "foam" that hardens into a hydrophobic surface which will be the new roof."
theduckening
Client will 100% blame you for the "shit job". Former graphic designer, I did a job for a client that insisted on their own design even if it was shit. But a gig is a gig and money is money. Did it, but politely protested during the entire process. Even kept all the drafts and communications in case. They were happy at first until people told them the design sucks and insisted I was the one who screwed them over.
bottledham
this
Jaqdakloun
More than likely, but we have a good boss, and he assured us any issues are between him and the homeowner.
SpotlightStealer
It's reassuring when you know your boss has your back
KnifeKnut
Sue in small claims for defamation?
theduckening
I was working for a company back then. Client complained (openly), I handed over the roughs, the communications and the sign offs by the client to my bosses. They talked with the client (I don't know all the details but legal was mentionned), client shut up and I worked there for a few more years before switching careers.
Santorrr
Hell yes
UserMCP
If it were me, I would have left a little message underneath a few of the shingles; something like "WE TOLD YOU SO"
UserMCP
Oh, or: "We've been trying to reach you about your roof's extended warranty..." lol
todaytomorrowwillbeyesterday
So, you're the guy who put the fake skeleton in the wall in the bathroom to be found when remodeling. HAH! Good job
UserMCP
Oh yes I would. With a copy of "The Cask of Amontillado".
todaytomorrowwillbeyesterday
Best served cold
TheMayorOfTittyCity
wait, the shingles are just laid on top of each other and not actually nailed in place? Why? I would think any roofer would just nail them down. The time is hauling them up, opening them, pulling them out, laying them out and lining them up. Nailing them down take a couple seconds per slab. How can you even keep them aligned when you are walking on them without securing them? I am very confused.
badgerZ505
The middle, lengthwise, of a shingle is affixed to the roof with six nails. The next shingle up is set down over the firsts, with the line of nails being cover by the over lap. The lower edge of a shingle usually has little spots of asphalt whin when heated up sort of tacks the lower, ‘loose’ edge down. You can pull up the lower half of a shingle. in this case, the substrate, the shingles, is not completely affixed to the actual roof deck.
valkrez
I assume OP meant that there are loose or failing shingles on the roof. Correct application of shingled roofing is nailing. No way they weren't nailed down
TheMayorOfTittyCity
Thats gotta be it
TK421isAFK
I don't believe OP. I've been in construction for over 30 years, and his comments don't make sense. There's no way all those asphalt shingles could be laid like that and not nailed in place. They'd be moving around just with people walking on them, and wouldn't stay parallel like they are.
WhatUpDog3000
And yet you still did it. Like Groucho Marx said "And those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others"
SumdumCanadiun
Anything spray on is a stop gap at best, and the folks applying it know this. Then applying it to asphalt shingles in reasonable condition, or any other substrates is a testament to their scamm-iness.
MisterLemons
My principle there is "I provide a service, I have standards to do it right, but I will do it all as wrong as the customer demands beyond my professional input".
Jaqdakloun
Aye, we were hired, and paid to do a job, the consequences will result in more labor and cost, job security, and we've been assured that any issues are between our boss and the homeowner, so, we did it anyway, and we'll do it again !
Homosexualsaregay
I don't understand the logic though. You were hired to do a professional job, but listened to the unskilled, unknowledgeable owner knowing it was wrong.
If I hired someone to do a job I wouldn't tell them how to do it, let alone expect them to actually listen to me, apart from design choices.
Paradox1111
Its so stupid.. a 100% of contractors will make the claim that client said so.. and then will cry that there is evidence that they did it wrong.. a 2 year old can tell me to hit a window with a hammer..if I do.. its my fault.. i should have known better
Zombieds
Why not walk away knowing this issues it will cause?
an0therthr0waway
one thousand percent this...
TheCriticsWereConciseItOnlyTookFourLines
I once did a job at my boss's boss's boss's insistence that I assured him repeatedly was a very bad idea. (Not for the toes it would step on, but just because it was not even a slightly valid approach for a projection, but it did step on toes too.) As a result, Congress wound up proposing a $5M reduction to be taken against the salaries of the folks who prepared the projection (AKA me). Fortunately they didn't know who I was and the proposal didn't make it into law anyhow.
MediocreExtremist
this. If you pride in your work, walk away from the job that will hurt your reputation. Plenty of work out there.
Sulexar
Roofers typically like being employed.
Strategicgnomer
There's a lot of roofs, not fucking one up isn't an issue.
Sulexar
It snows sometimes, so climate change must be a myth, right. Same logic.
kodiak931155
Theres a lot of roofers too
Strategicgnomer
And people are going to use the one with principals over the ones who just do whatever.
Sulexar
Principals have enough to do running schools, they aren't moonlighting as roofers.
Paradox1111
When neighbor called the roofer we used a couple of years ago.. their prices had gone up by almost 50%.. so he got a bunch of Afghanis for the same price as we paid.. same quality.. there are so many roofers that you can tell
10 a day to pound sand
rotodisc
Idiot’s money spends the same.
MothMonsterMan
Idiot will blame you one day if you don't have proof you claimed otherwise. Not worth the risk
Sulexar
Getting proof is easy. Not worth your kids going hungry.
vDorothyv
A job done poorly might cost you several jobs down the road via word of mouth. My coworker got his roof replaced four months before me, and they did such a bad job that I chose a bid $2k higher to avoid them.
Sulexar
A job done perfectly might cost you several jobs down the road via word of mouth if you offended the owners in some bullshit way.
Starcatcher1986
Anybody who'd ignore their advice is very likely to sue over the results. If you have to defend your earnings in court, that money very much does not spend the same.
BarryTheCyborg
If you have it in writing, the case will probably be thrown out or the dumbass will get stuck with all of the legal bills and probably more
Starcatcher1986
Lawyers make more per hour than roofers, and as I understand it, you usually have to countersue in order for the courts to get your legal costs covered by somebody suing you.
BarryTheCyborg
I believe you're right, but I'm guessing it usually works in the contractors favor based on how many stories like this I see
Sulexar
I'm not saying you're wrong since I imagine you've seen it happen before, but why? How is the foam not holding it together more firmly? If it's truly hydrophobic, rain isn't going to affect it. If it's applied properly, water can't pool anywhere on the roof to add weight to pull the shingles off. I don't understand why this is a problem other than shingles aren't firmly attached enough.
jetah
imagine putting paper on a wall then spray foaming the wall. the paper has to be attached but it's still the weakest part of the foams application.
RickHalcyon
but see, reading comprehension to the OP's explanation is at play here... you wrote there's no problem "other than shingles aren't firmly attached enough" but that's plenty!
Sulexar
I could have worded that better. I meant not attached enough in general, like they would fall off anyway even without the foam.
totaleclipseofdescartes
This site suggests it’s possible at least in some situations. May vary depending on condition of the shingles and may require special primer/adhesives. https://www.foamexpertsroofing.com/blog/can-you-put-a-foam-roof-over-shingles/
PorneliusHubertII
Your roof is subject to more than just rainfall, wind is a constant issue, hail, tree branches, etc.
HypnagogicHallucinations
Yeah, I don't know anything about roofing, and I didn't understand the issue.
BobTheWeak
I'd assume thermal expansion. Shingles are probably designed to expand with daytime heat, and do so at slightly different rates. And any spray-on is (by definition) many small, independent globs, and that's not the kind of structure that's meant to stretch. You'd likely see all kinds of micro-fractures (that grow), especially where two shingles meet.
todaytomorrowwillbeyesterday
Add extreme cold in the NE, & you have a recipe for disaster with expansion & contraction which EVERY roof & material used, account for this movement. However, this material does not sound like a fix for a conventional roof in certain areas at all. Encompassing wood products to stop oxygen is detrimental due to non-breathing areas of a building these products create
Starcatcher1986
I'm also not an expert, but my understanding is that this material is very fragile and relies on a backing for support. Disturbances that would be enough to shift the shingles (but not tear or remove them) , such as running squirrels, falling twigs or strong would result in cracks.
Sulexar
Not sure how I didn't consider heavy wind at all, but that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
camn333
Was it a house flipper? Because I doubt someone who wants to live there would decide to fuck up his own roof like that. I hope you made him sign something saying you won't be responsible for the shitty job when it inevitably fails.
PithyCommentBelow
I dunno… a lot of people are REALLY fucking stupid.
XavierElrose
House flippers can be pretty awful. I lived in an area that was basically sand dunes that happened to have plants on them in high school. Some speculator had the bright idea of buying a property, razing the plants, and expecting people to build houses on top of a plant-less sand dune.
The *really* distressing bit is that I suspect they made money selling to other speculators, though over a decade on no actual *houses* have materialized.
iwishjtmoneywasstillavailableitsmyoldvideogamemoniker
Some customer are stupid as fuck. They'll insist on stuff like this then complain when it fails.
pareidoliaperson
Yes but I didn't mean it like that!
OperationRustysBlanket
People, the worst thing we make the most of
Cargobiker530
As somebody who used to do rental property maintenance I clearly hear you calling out cheap landlords. They will repeatedly spend a dollar to save a dime and then spend ten dollars fixing it a year later.
iwishjtmoneywasstillavailableitsmyoldvideogamemoniker
I do not have experience with cheap landlords but I am sure you have some beige paint you can put on that.
TripleDane
from IT field ican confirm this " i want to se everyone in the companies mailbox in my outlook""no you dont, this is going to break outlook" " just do as i say" "OK"
haIreallysigneduphere
As someone in IT, people are fuckin stupid in general and they think they're an expert in all matters while still coming to you for help. At the same time you're providing them an answer based on decades of experience, they will still question and disregard said answer.
Jaqdakloun
I don't think so, it was a new construction around a part of the house that stood there before.
TK421isAFK
That's an addition, and those asphalt shingles have some age to them. They're not new, as evidenced by the worn spots on them. Why do you think they're not nailed down? Those shingles have been up there for a decade or more, and they're in perfectly straight rows.
Imadethisaccounttopost
SO, how is it supposed to be done?
Gegenschein
Without the shingles, just straight onto the underlying plywood
Jaqdakloun
Yesh !
finstad4
Hope you documented every time the guy dismissed your recommendations. He is going to try and blame you when this fails.
SergeyPrkl
It woll not help. He will be a pain in the ass for years. I would decline to do it completelly. I'm a professional. I do it the Professional, by the book way or nothing.
hellsgunslinger
I worked in a hardware store years ago and this is why we had a "will not load" policy for certain situations. Like the guy that bought half a pallet of concrete mix and wanted it loaded into an old 2 door coupe. He loaded it and drove off. Don't know if he made it or not but we didn't touch it.
ShitIstoleFrom4chan
I was going to write something exactly like this. Put up a piece of paper that says: "I recognize that I have been told that this would not work the way I demanded it to be done, and that I was told that it would become undone within just a few months, I insist on it being done this way anyway, and waive my rights to blame anyone but myself when it does".
YouRadicalizedMe
The landlord special
Hurro
Agreed. Hope you got something that'll hold up in court.
languex
My Friend who is a Circuit Judge told me some time ago that if it's not written down and signed, it isn't worth sh!t.
maincarrot
1000% man.
We get calls "how much is it to repair bpa blah blah."
"Well if it's fucked, $18k."
"Oh, that's way too much. How much are they typically just a ballpark"
"Well I dunno, it depends. if it's just x,y,z and medium hours, maybe 12?"
He decides to bring it in, we get it apart, we quote him $21.5 because it's more than fucked it's totally fucked. Even the shit we dont normally replace was fucked. Even the shit that gets fucked one out of 10,000, was fucked.
him: "YOU QUOTED TWEEELVE"
maincarrot
"YEAH WELL ITS FUCKING FUCKED, DUMBASS."
Customers just suck.
Jaqdakloun
Just texts between me and the homeowner, but we have a good boss, and he assured us that any issues are between him and the homeowner.
Santorrr
Get them in black and white.
Yamusa
I would make the owner sign an acknowledgement report or something. And the reputational damages may occur, btw, when the foam cracks and the customer starts spreading words of your work.
HowlingRollercoaster2
If your boss is the licensed contractor, and not you, then you're probably good. any contract for work done would be the bosses responsibility. But yeah this is going to be really gnarly when it comes back around.
Syxcfaq
Always get them to sign a "Hold Harmless Agreement" or HHA. Simple common legal document that says they can't sue later, basically.
DanielAsparagus
Document. Document. Document. Now.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
You guys are still in for a shit storm your boss should have 100% had the guy sign a release. Because in 1 month when it cracks this guy "who knows everything" is going to be livid and harassing everyone he has contact information for.
Good luck.
HowlingRollercoaster2
Yep
xj4low
Find a way to print them out. Especially if he listed his name and address. A form may have been good to have him sign. We use to do that at the body shop when ever someone comes in with such a shit car, we have them sign that they acknowledge it's unsafe to drive and was removed at his request.
xj4low
One guy had a clothes hanger wrapped around the driver door window frame to keep it shut. He had to get out the passenger side. We told him it was a total and we couldn't touch it due to liability concerns.
scoutMoonDiver
That reminds me of the vehicles I’ve seen on “Just Rolled In” on YouTube.
xj4low
I love that channel and yes, people are that stupid. One lady brought back her car because the fog lights didn't work. I showed her where the switch was. She god in her car and left without a word. Also had an H2 that was so filled with crap, we refused to touch it until it was cleaned out. Took him 2 months. No wonder he was in an accident. Sitting on old mail and have so much crap on the floor it interfered with the pedals. (1/
HiHowAreYou92
From an insurance standpoint if you can't prove you advised against it you will most likely be held liable.
PirateRubberDuck
In future get the customer to sign something acknowledging that you advise against it and the risks of going against your advise. They will claim ignorance when it fails. I'm sure your boss will have your back, but it is best to protect yourself and look professional.
AntaNce
Is there no building code, permit process where you are, license & insurance? This would be red tagged where I live, documents or not.
Zamm005
Never seen this roof type before. Do you know what the foam is? I'm guessing a resin based thing that goes off a bit like fibre glass?... Does it stay that colour or do people paint it?
therealalansmithee
Also, done UV break down the foam over time? How’s durability compare to other types of roofing materials? Does it stand up to hail?
Zamm005
I think part of our skepticism might come from this looking a lot like PIR foam?.. Which we know won't last 5 minutes (but it cant be that or it's almost be falling off before they had time to pack up the truck and leave :D)
hotrodny
"Despite the fact that we have informed you that this will not last and that it will have to be done again shortly, you chose to ignore our advice. By signing here, you release us from all financial responsibility in connection with a leak in the roof". Get a lawyer to adjust the wording, and get the customer to sign.
thequicksilver
Actually, the documentation can work AGAINST them in a lot of places. Because if they knew it was wrong, and told them it was wrong, and did it anyway, the "but the customer said do it anyway" defense doesn't hold up in a lot of jurisdictions, ESPECIALLY when it's clear they knew.
That's not to say "don't document." It's more saying "there's no right way to do the wrong thing, and they should have refused."
BlindedByTheWereLight
I would be more concerned about things like if the homeowner went and sold the property shortly after doing this.
Also I am sure that in most jurisdictions there are restrictions along the line of if it can't be performed correctly then no work can be done. Ie it gets done the accepted way or not at all, customers preference be damned.. generally more applicable to electrics and plumbing probably but may be applicable in this case as well.
IHaveGreatKittenRecipes
Yeah idk about for roofing but I can't just call up a plumber and say fuck the accepted plans, I want my sewer lines to drain directly into the gutter and make them do that. Nor can I make an electrician wire up a 15a circuit for my electric car charger. At some point OP's boss needed to eat the lost costs and tell this twit customer to shove it.
rowm
So you can lose in court if you give the customer what they wanted?
[deleted]
[deleted]
rowm
I guess that is true
Flexiblewarmth
Here it needs to "be fit for purpose". An option is "Sorry I'm not even quoting it."
ElbowDeepInAPoliceState
Just following orders isn't much of a defense
OhMyItsUncleJoeBiden
If I go into the Dr. and ask them to surgically remove my legs because I think its a good idea I will be refused. Contractors can also refuse work in a similar vein when they know its a bad idea and should do so even though there isn't a Hippocratic oath for contractors.
thequicksilver
In some case, yes, especially if it results in early material failure, property damage, or isn't to code. "It's what they asked for" isn't some sort of immutable defense for doing a job the wrong way.
sambaah05
I understand if it's not up to code, but if it's to code, I find it hard to believe that would still be the contractors fault. What's the legal basis for that?
PirateRubberDuck
Customers are legally allowed to be stupid, ignorant and stubborn, professionals are not. The one who is expected to know what they are doing is liable in most cases.
thequicksilver
A lot is gonna come down to what's on the SOW for the project, what sorts of understanding can be contractually waived, and in particular, what the nominal specs are for the installation. Let's say that's a product with a 10-yearl guarantee (when installed correctly). If it fails in months - like OP predicts - and ESPECIALLY if it results in any additional property damage, there's an incredibly good chance the contractor will be liable for knowingly improper installation.
thequicksilver
And there is a TON of "what ifs" for something like this, since we only know what OP said. And regardless of any "what if," good contractors won't be like "oh well, I'll take the money anyway and accept this huge risk." Like I said at the start, there's no right way to do the wrong work. I don't think they take quite the pride in their work OP claims if they'll cut corners like this. We had it baked into our contracts to protect ourselves, even. Good way to lose licensing and bonding.
codenameRadical
It's not quite like that. Usually "document" means "sign something saying you understand this is fucking stupid before I do it". Basically, you can do something for someone for money, and it's fine, as long as everyone understands and agrees on what will happen. The documentation is mostly about claims of bad workmanship or warranty, which are defended against by having someone sign the "I'm an idiot" paper.
thequicksilver
Waivers can and are routinely thrown out in courts, especially if the customer can show that the contractor knew what they were doing was wrong. At a certain point, a contractor absolutely has the responsibility to know better than a customer and walk away. All of this is variable and situational, but things like text messages or phone recordings ARE admissable. Given the content of the OP, at least in our jurisdiction, the contractor would almost certainly lose in small claims court here.
Tumescentpie
Which is why you always let your attorney write the waiver. Knowing they'll be going to court on it can make them do the right thing. At least that's how all of the fortune 500s handle it. But they also have infinite money and settle all the fucking time.
codenameRadical
What you're basically saying is that I can't hire someone to do something that might not be bog standard, on the off chance that I have a weird situation or need, and also, that the rules of when I can't hire someone that way are entirely unclear, and based on obscure, unwritten, "should have known" properties. The notion of the contractors walking away should, in my mind, be more associated with situations that are inherently illegal or dangerous.
Heavenissize17socks
It wouldn't go to small claims and the contractor did no wrong. The work will meet expectations with regards to quality.
waitwuh
I’ve got an example. “I’ll pay you money to murder me in a very particular way” is usually a bad idea. You probably just shouldn’t take that offer, right?
SilverHornet
I mean, the government do this on a national level, the model is clearly sound
zimbler
Correct. Murder the way you want. Don't let someone smother your creativity.
KellyCrazyCatLadyinTraining
Exactly. Take the money and walk away. What are they going to do, call the cops? And say what?
NKato
Considering that the homeowner was told, in no uncertain terms why this was A Bad Idea, and they insisted on continuing anyway - that shifts the blame from the contractor to the homeowner.
JustAnotherRandomCommenter
prove that the customer (who is not an expert!) full understood the risks they were taking. no, a signed piece of paper ("yeah they gave me something to sign. there were loads of forms.") will not actually prove this. given the choices of "large company that definitely should've known better than to do this" and "poor innocent homeowner who's home has been wrecked by this", who do you think the court is likely to side with?
PirateRubberDuck
This is one of those situations where you should get legal advice because the way it works is probably not intuitive and covering your ass will probably take more work than you think. There are situations where an architect in the UK can get jail time for doing what the client wants and not what is required, it is not always simple. Doing something stupid might mean a building can never be sold due to not meeting requirements too.