I have questions and the article says it crashed 3 miles from the airfield which is total BS. But the question is why they didn't abort the takeoff when if they can't even rotate up and there's a fire?
Nobody will know all the details until later. In any jet, after you reach V1 (a variable speed based on weight, atmosphere, runway length), you take off no matter what problem you encounter because trying to stop is guaranteed failure. At 140-170 knots it takes about minute to go 3 miles.
sure but when the thing that caused the explosion also had 38,000 gallons of fuel on board I'm pretty sure the explosions gonna be big and bad regardless.
Wait, seriously?!? I also thought it was a joke. I had heard that Kentucky was stupid, but holy crap, that’s like intentionally stupid!! And I’m from Florida! Stop making my state look smart by comparison!
Unfortunately depending on what speed they were at in the takeoff process this outcome might have been inevitable. That is there is a point where slamming the brakes on may still end in a boom as you exit the airport perimeter on what is left of the landing gear.
Respectfully disagree. V1 - decision speed - is the speed AFTER which an emergency stop cannot be completed within the remaining runway available. This is a specific speed (somewhere around 120 kts for a large aircraft) based on many factors to include runway length, condition, slope, temperature, aircraft performance, etc. Generally speaking, a catastrophic failure (an engine fire is a good one) PRIOR to this speed should be rejected and runway remaining should be sufficient (1/2)
to stop the aircraft. Failures that occur above V1 (airplane is still on the runway at this point) should be considered an IN FLIGHT emergency because you're going flying. We train for this regularly but it's nigh impossible to predict how any one person will react in an actual emergency. Weather the fire occured prior to V1 is unknown. What is clear, it seems, is that the aircraft did not produce sufficient lift to sustain flight; a feat it can certainly do with only 2 of its 3 engines. (2/2)
An engine catching on fire is probably going to have some power issues before they get to the RTO point of no return though. Those runways for UPS are plenty long too for heavily loaded aircraft so I gotta think this is pilot error not paying attention to the instruments when the problems began. It'll come out in the FAA report in a year or so but tragic any way you cut it.
no, just I know a little about the subject having worked for a wheel and brake overhaul shop in Louisville and even working on some UPS equipment when they were short staffed once. There's a point about half way down the runway where you can reject the takeoff. I find it very hard to believe there wasn't any indication something was wrong the some 10-20 seconds prior to the crash where the engine would have been on fire because they clearly didn't have the speed to rotate up and climb. *shrug*
maybe if the engine fell off? That could happen at any time and if happens after v1 it's over. Your appeals to your own experience don't help your argument, either.
No. The end of the runways are deep gravel pits specifically designed to stop an aircraft of tremendous weight traveling at high speed. The pilot probably didn't know he had lost an engine, even though he should have, and should have cut power and braked instead of ascending.
Idk about if the pilot should have pivoted or not, but you are correct about some runways having the stop pits for runaway planes. Idk if all runways have that though.
I am a private pilot and have been playing flight sims for over 20 years. There are photos of one of the engines sitting in the middle of the runway, meaning it fell out before the pilot took off.
Now there's not really a "hey your engine just fell off" alert on the flight deck, but there are half a dozen alarms that would have gone off when that happened. The crew had time to know something was wrong, but they didn't do anything about it. There was time to abort the flight, but they didn't.
EMAS is not a deep gravel pit. And not all runways have them.
Regardless of your experience or mine, I'm sure as HELL not going to impugn my fellow High Speed Metal Tubers before anything other than the official report comes out. Nor should you.
EMAS isn't just one design of special concrete and a runway for commercial cargo planes would have one, and regardless of that pulling up on the stick when you have flame out and pressure alarms squaking is just stupid, it's a lot better to impact something after slowing down on the ground than it is to impact it belly first after taking off.
4 would be my guess for a long haul flight. I think UPS eliminated dead head after either 9/11 or the Fedex incident. So should have been nobody other than flight crew.
Initially everyone was. Passengers/cargo plane? Right now, as more info comes in - the official toll is 7 - so some were at the crash zone and coped it.
ufoara
Thanks for the crop
TungstenOrbital
This is tragic
Mycologics
I wanted to make a Drump DEI joke. But nothing is funny about this, or trump. This is just sad
UnattendedDeviant
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ups-plane-crash-louisville-airport-rcna241998
RichardPenne
Missed the exact moment of impact. Don't quit your day job camera guy.....
pinkypiesbutt
Add that to the list of people I've seen die on the interwebs
vindik8or
Who said cutting government regulation was a bad idea?
Ijustwantquiet
The problem isn't regulations for aviation but a shortage of FAA inspectors.
JackieTreehornProductions
I have questions and the article says it crashed 3 miles from the airfield which is total BS. But the question is why they didn't abort the takeoff when if they can't even rotate up and there's a fire?
Spiffytown
Nobody will know all the details until later. In any jet, after you reach V1 (a variable speed based on weight, atmosphere, runway length), you take off no matter what problem you encounter because trying to stop is guaranteed failure. At 140-170 knots it takes about minute to go 3 miles.
mohavewolfpup
Another view (warning: visible plane crash)
Totallyscrewedinaustin
Holy shit
trinxter
Another view of the fire. https://x.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1985848498353529005
dataengineer
dios mio indeed.
CaptainYesterday
So you don't have to go to Twitter.
messedabout
My package!!
LitterBoxKing
Jeebus. People died.
Clockworkdancerobot
Maybe tap the brakes on dumb humor a little.
FascisTyrant
+1 for dark humor, fuck these smoothbrain white-knight shitheads downvoting you.
messedabout
Too soon?
LitchLitch
Im not sure locating a petroleum recycling facility at the end of a runway is a great idea.
HowlingRollercoaster2
That explains things. Steel beams.
viva93
sure but when the thing that caused the explosion also had 38,000 gallons of fuel on board I'm pretty sure the explosions gonna be big and bad regardless.
IhopeUgetwhatUvoted4
Yeah. That spot is only for ammunition depots.
AntaNce
And anthrax storage.
cameloDancer
Christ! I thought you were making a bad joke, but shit, it's true.
KellyCrazyCatLadyinTraining
Wait, seriously?!? I also thought it was a joke. I had heard that Kentucky was stupid, but holy crap, that’s like intentionally stupid!! And I’m from Florida! Stop making my state look smart by comparison!
jammer909
I guess the planners and architect were big fans of Swat Kats.
Filanwizard
Unfortunately depending on what speed they were at in the takeoff process this outcome might have been inevitable. That is there is a point where slamming the brakes on may still end in a boom as you exit the airport perimeter on what is left of the landing gear.
ExaDeuce
We calculate against that exact situation.
WellWhatTheHeck
Respectfully disagree. V1 - decision speed - is the speed AFTER which an emergency stop cannot be completed within the remaining runway available. This is a specific speed (somewhere around 120 kts for a large aircraft) based on many factors to include runway length, condition, slope, temperature, aircraft performance, etc. Generally speaking, a catastrophic failure (an engine fire is a good one) PRIOR to this speed should be rejected and runway remaining should be sufficient (1/2)
WellWhatTheHeck
to stop the aircraft. Failures that occur above V1 (airplane is still on the runway at this point) should be considered an IN FLIGHT emergency because you're going flying. We train for this regularly but it's nigh impossible to predict how any one person will react in an actual emergency. Weather the fire occured prior to V1 is unknown. What is clear, it seems, is that the aircraft did not produce sufficient lift to sustain flight; a feat it can certainly do with only 2 of its 3 engines. (2/2)
JackieTreehornProductions
An engine catching on fire is probably going to have some power issues before they get to the RTO point of no return though. Those runways for UPS are plenty long too for heavily loaded aircraft so I gotta think this is pilot error not paying attention to the instruments when the problems began. It'll come out in the FAA report in a year or so but tragic any way you cut it.
LRADIKAL
lol, are you a Boeing exec?
JackieTreehornProductions
no, just I know a little about the subject having worked for a wheel and brake overhaul shop in Louisville and even working on some UPS equipment when they were short staffed once. There's a point about half way down the runway where you can reject the takeoff. I find it very hard to believe there wasn't any indication something was wrong the some 10-20 seconds prior to the crash where the engine would have been on fire because they clearly didn't have the speed to rotate up and climb. *shrug*
LRADIKAL
maybe if the engine fell off? That could happen at any time and if happens after v1 it's over.
Your appeals to your own experience don't help your argument, either.
Trunkmonkay
No. The end of the runways are deep gravel pits specifically designed to stop an aircraft of tremendous weight traveling at high speed. The pilot probably didn't know he had lost an engine, even though he should have, and should have cut power and braked instead of ascending.
ThisNameUnavailable
Idk about if the pilot should have pivoted or not, but you are correct about some runways having the stop pits for runaway planes. Idk if all runways have that though.
WellWhatTheHeck
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_system
It's not a deep pit of gravel (as someone said) and you are correct, not all runways have EMAS. We also do not consider EMAS in our calculations.
WellWhatTheHeck
You know little about aviation. And, boy howdy, it's WAY too early to start Monday morning quarterbacking this one!
Trunkmonkay
I am a private pilot and have been playing flight sims for over 20 years. There are photos of one of the engines sitting in the middle of the runway, meaning it fell out before the pilot took off.
Now there's not really a "hey your engine just fell off" alert on the flight deck, but there are half a dozen alarms that would have gone off when that happened. The crew had time to know something was wrong, but they didn't do anything about it. There was time to abort the flight, but they didn't.
WellWhatTheHeck
EMAS is not a deep gravel pit. And not all runways have them.
Regardless of your experience or mine, I'm sure as HELL not going to impugn my fellow High Speed Metal Tubers before anything other than the official report comes out. Nor should you.
Trunkmonkay
EMAS isn't just one design of special concrete and a runway for commercial cargo planes would have one, and regardless of that pulling up on the stick when you have flame out and pressure alarms squaking is just stupid, it's a lot better to impact something after slowing down on the ground than it is to impact it belly first after taking off.
Level21Magikarp
How many souls on board?
MeowWoof
But did my package survive?
Filanwizard
4 would be my guess for a long haul flight. I think UPS eliminated dead head after either 9/11 or the Fedex incident. So should have been nobody other than flight crew.
Unfortunate500
Article says 3 at the moment. Unknown if they survived. That fireball doesn't look promising.
ufoara
2 to 4, cargo jet
jammer909
A day later, and I think the total is up to 9 dead.
dixxienormus
Confirmed 7 dead.
SecretCookies
3. No confirmed deaths yet.
CaptainYesterday
4 confirmed deaths so far.
CaptainYesterday
Another article says 7 dead.not going to have a solid number for a day or two I would think.
Shoutrr
2 gingers...
SacrificialClam
The fuck is wrong with you
Hexidimentional
just the crew i assume, for a cargo jet that's no more than 4
ShutUpImWorking
it crashed into a commercial area though (buildings!) hopefully no one was around
Ijustwantquiet
4 fatalities and 11 injuries on the ground.
dixxienormus
A cargo plane - just 2 pilots and any stowaways.
JackieTreehornProductions
3 per the article
dixxienormus
Now 7 confirmed dead. Obviously some on the ground.
JackieTreehornProductions
I thought you were talking about flight crew
dixxienormus
Initially everyone was. Passengers/cargo plane? Right now, as more info comes in - the official toll is 7 - so some were at the crash zone and coped it.