This. Comparing these two hetero shitfuckers to women and gay couples is offensive to...women and gay couples. Facism, misogyny, and homophobia all go hand in hand. And the women and gay people who have actually been perpetrated against, by rapists and pedophiles, like these two hell-bound hetero pieces of shit, don't want you to reinforce misogynistic and homophobic stereotypes that will continue to hurt them in the future.
Dudebros have two modes of fighting: 1) really aggressive shoving that ends with exactly one good right hook that misses and clips a bystander, and 2) six weeks of extensive MMA training with some of the greats, culminating in a win for whoever didn't miss and accidentally clip the ref with the one good right hook of the match.
It's probably more to do with how they are fighting, the "Catty-ness" of spreading rumours and talking shit, tactics that are usually employed my women, that is the reason for it.
Clearly men do it too, but it "locker room talk" when they do it, right? No. Shitty behavior is shitty behavior no matter who does it. We, as a society, really need to start examining this internalized sense of mysogyny and homophobia we ate carrying around.
Idk what locker rooms you've been listening to, but the only "locker room talk" I've ever been a part of is talking about random shit while avoiding eye contact.
No I don't enter "restricted areas" where I know I am unsafe. But this is more like being invited to a Signal conversation and being forced to listen in.
I haven't seen that yet. I have seen a LOT of people calling them a broken up gay couple, but I imagine this is one of those situations where no group of people wants them included in their mix and calling them anything other than what they are is insinuating this is how you believe that group behaves on a regular basis, so perhaps we just call them what they are: spoiled, greedy, inept, soulless flesh sacks.
I'm pretty sure that the intent is to encourage a rage tantrum whether it's by calling them girls or calling them a gay couple. Neither comparison offends me but they are poison to guys like Trump and Musk.
IDK... My wife and her friends love these shows that are supposed to be real life and all it is are a bunch of rich women fighting all the time. I truly don't get it. But the demographic exists.
She's right, it can be frightening to watch something that has the tone of an almost normal conversation and both parties smile, but shower each other with intricate backhanded compliments that make your eyes water and feel like you pulled some muscle in your inner thigh.
I mean, we do fight that stupid but so do men (clearly). Yes, some people are turning it into a sexism thing and taking it way too far, but this is the most appropriate use for the "Presidential Alert: the girls are fightiiiinnnnggg" meme I have ever seen.
Have you seen the amount of mockery posts of Trump? Often he's dressed as a girl / woman, as if that's an insult. Sure, to Trump it probably is, but it still sets the tone. The world is full of degrading bs against women and alike. "You have to learn to live with it" or you'll go insane. I don't mean that people should give up, it's just so engrained in society you'd be fighting constantly on all fronts and not actually living. I'm glad someone is addressing this specific issue though. To FP!
True, and there's fatphobia and ableism as well as homophobic comments, using "gay" in a degatory manner. This is what happens when people normalise it. It is no different from the way Musk and Trump talk.
i agree it is sexist, but its also important that when you insult someone they know they ARE being insulted, especially when you want them to know them to know they are being mocked.
We, as a society really need to the examine our internalized misogyny and homomphobia. Your female- and gay/queer- identified "loved" ones, who have been perpetrated against by these types of hetero men, are watching what you say and making note of whether that means you are safe space for them or whether to drop efforts with you and just write you off as being, yet, more unsafe par for course.
Ofcourse not. That is not ("just") sexism, that is sexual assault and disgusting criminal behavior. They're two very different things. I was mainly speaking about the general sexism that exists against women. The way it's engrained into our language and society, not actual crimes. I'm talking about the constant seemingly "little" and "normal" things that drag us down.
"Of course not," Really? The awareness of how toxic this language is there, but just keep reinforcing it anyway because that is the way it is?
Please also be willing to explain that to the girls who were victimized. The people who have been victimized the most won't ask for the explanation, but they are watching how we use language to determine whether we are safe spaces...or just par for the course.
But we do have to learn to live with it, because there is simply too much of it in the world to address. If I started fighting everything everywhere I would never leave the house, speak or do anything. Cause it's literally everywhere. That doesn't mean ee can't strive for a better world though. It's more of a pick your battle kinda thing.
That aside. What happened and happens to girls and women around the world is absolutely sickening and these criminals need to be punished.
How about "it's just locker room talk" or "we redact or delete history so we don't have to be held accountable for our bad behaviors that have consequences for everyone else."
Seerious answer: Bitches are female dogs. It always comes back to insulting a women in order to be offend another group of people. The misogyny(like racism and homophobia) is so internalized in our society, that is insidious to our language. But we can fix it:
History lesson: The naming of the BLM movement is part of a saying "When Black Lives Matter, All Lives Matter." Means giving respect to people who are shat on the most in society leads to society, as whole, being better for all in it.
As I was typing this I realized your point and am ashamed of myself. I was about to say “instead of bitch I should call them a pussy?” Which is equally misogynistic. I will do better. Sorry everyone
I can see that you are - and want to be - a safe space for people around you. The people who need to see that safety to feel safe will see that in you too.
Thank you for engaging the discourse with me. We are all works in progress on this because it is so insidious in the language. I once attended a a gender workshop where we had to evaluate lyrics of music and I can't tell how heartbreaking it was to realize that if I actually listened past a good beat, how many misogynistic, homophobic, and racist messages we recieve...on the dance floor! Now there are so many songs that I can listen to or sing along with because I see it and can't ignore it.
Everybody who is down voting you is letting you know whether they are safe space - regardless of whether they identify with these marginalized communities or not.
Can't be a safe space when they are carrying around all that internalized misogyny and homomphobia...
Wow. Who do you think that argument fools? The whole world thinks you're a fascist. History will identify you as a fascist. Experts on fascism identify you as a fascist.
That's your best counterargument? Seriously? Why are fascists always the DUMBEST possible white people?
you can construct the wittiest insult ever but if the people its aimed at are too stupid to be insulted by it ends up only 'preaching to the choir' and politics is about changing opinions.
Shit that's like half of the front page of Imgur/reddit. Petty high school drama circles over out of context/doctored photos/remarks. It's like facebook but a different flavor of rage baiting and bitching.
I don't think she sees her own level of internalized misogyny that rationalizes putting her own gender down to make an insulting comparison but WE (who identify as part of these marginalized communities and have been perpetrated against by the very people she is insulting) see it as insulting too...and very disappointing.
Y'all can downvote me all you want but here are the actual "girls" that have been harmed by these rapists so say it to their faces and let them know you are not a safe space either.
Oh, piss off with the pretending you speak for everyone in the community. Get off your fucking high horse. Some of us punch the bastards where it hurts them without worrying about our mail polish.
I think if that was said by somebody in the republicunt party, it would be misogynistic. Said by AOC, I think its deliberately intended to make the misogynists butt hurt about being called something they deem inferior.
Definitely true. And I think AOC would agree. I just think she said that because it's guaranteed to make both of those narcissistic douchebags even madder than they already are.
History lesson: we put the "L" first in LGBTQ because it was the lesbian community who stepped in to care for dying gay men with AIDS and buried them with love and dignity. We should be honoring them better than this.
The people who are using this language, today, are not using it with the same intent as the people who created this language.
Ownvite if you will- I will still choose to be a safe space for people victimized to the point that "they can't take a joke."
There is a lot of internalized mysogyny, racism and himophobia within the black and gay community too. And a lot of people who identify as being within these communities who are demonstrating they can't be safe spaces for those who have victimized by white hetero men to the point they "can't take a joke". Thise people won't say anything. But they are watching a figuring out who is an ally and who is just, yet more, par for the course.
Black and drag communities are notorious for playing internalized with hate and now we see people outside of those groupsusing this language - not the same ways. If that is you, do you, boo. But I wholly reject being told how I am supposed to feel or that I should minimize the experiences of my loved ones. That is not how I demonstrate being a safe space for people who have been victimized to the point that "they just can't take a joke."
Gay community should evaluate that...level of internalized misogyny. Histoey lesson: We put "L" first in LGBTQ because it was lesbian women who came to care for gay men dying of AIDS in the 80's when the rest of the country abandoned and ostracized them - in sickness, with transfusions, and in burying them with love and dignity. We could be honoring them better than this.
Say all the hateful shit you want to say to me to actual little girls who have been sexually harmed by these men. Say it to their faces, with your chest out so they know just what kind of a safe space you aren't!
mustardcutter
They're more like those bully kids fighting in the school yard, Jimbo and Nelson are like two lords in comparison
MioTaalas
I haven't, I call them assholes. Because that's the only thing that won't offend or mock anyone else than them and their cronies....
iusedtodream
No. Clearly men do.
wannasee
The "girls" that DON'T care for your insulting comparisons:
Tootsie1
I keep saying they sound like a couple of 5 year olds.
johnblood616
This is why we will lose. While they dismantle democracy we argue what names it's ok to call Nazis.
KingKrabvoldIV
Exactly, and the people getting offended by these comments are telling another community they can’t use a phrase they don’t understand.
Saxytimes
No creature, or object, deserves to be compared to these two. I would say pieces of shit but shit can be used as fertilizer so it's more useful
Imapseudonym
As someone who grew up with two older sisters yes, yes you do.
wannasee
This. Comparing these two hetero shitfuckers to women and gay couples is offensive to...women and gay couples. Facism, misogyny, and homophobia all go hand in hand. And the women and gay people who have actually been perpetrated against, by rapists and pedophiles, like these two hell-bound hetero pieces of shit, don't want you to reinforce misogynistic and homophobic stereotypes that will continue to hurt them in the future.
languex
tRump and Muskrat grow old but they never grow up.
shawnemack
Being called a girl is not an insult, but those idiots take it as an insult, so the girls are fighting.
wannasee
Would you be willing to say that to these girls?
Thorketil
I would rather compare the fight between the two like this:
HalloIamherenow
This fight seems considerably more epic
KittyKlimt6
If only they were that capable and brave
januarylover
They're like toddlers. Toddlers having a big, snotty tantrum at each other. Only difference is that toddlers will grow out of it.
TheElliotPage
toddlers have an excuse for acting that way. so, they are worse than toddlers.
Toqom
I call them toddlers
wannasee
I have seen toddlers show love and empathy that these two rancid pieces of shit can't even muster for their own loved ones.
magus200342
I see it as ket vs dementia in some weird pokemon esque battle.
ThisNumberHasAName
Dudebros have two modes of fighting: 1) really aggressive shoving that ends with exactly one good right hook that misses and clips a bystander, and 2) six weeks of extensive MMA training with some of the greats, culminating in a win for whoever didn't miss and accidentally clip the ref with the one good right hook of the match.
wadatahmydamie
Literally Wimp2Warrior
TheElliotPage
notice how all the so-called 'alpha males' are all creepy losers
cousteau
Not everyone. I, for instance, see them more as two monkeys with knives fighting while everyone else cheers.
Solkanarmy
https://imgur.com/dupyWCK
wadatahmydamie
Which one is Furious George?
The701
https://bsky.app/profile/andygilder.bsky.social/post/3lquzhd266s2m
Someshithead241
It's probably more to do with how they are fighting, the "Catty-ness" of spreading rumours and talking shit, tactics that are usually employed my women, that is the reason for it.
wannasee
Clearly men do it too, but it "locker room talk" when they do it, right? No. Shitty behavior is shitty behavior no matter who does it. We, as a society, really need to start examining this internalized sense of mysogyny and homophobia we ate carrying around.
Someshithead241
Idk what locker rooms you've been listening to, but the only "locker room talk" I've ever been a part of is talking about random shit while avoiding eye contact.
wannasee
No I don't enter "restricted areas" where I know I am unsafe. But this is more like being invited to a Signal conversation and being forced to listen in.
somerandomusernamebecauseididntlikemyoldone
I haven't seen that yet. I have seen a LOT of people calling them a broken up gay couple, but I imagine this is one of those situations where no group of people wants them included in their mix and calling them anything other than what they are is insinuating this is how you believe that group behaves on a regular basis, so perhaps we just call them what they are: spoiled, greedy, inept, soulless flesh sacks.
TheElliotPage
They would be nothing without their greedy dad's money... which is sad & hilarious
androgenoide
I'm pretty sure that the intent is to encourage a rage tantrum whether it's by calling them girls or calling them a gay couple. Neither comparison offends me but they are poison to guys like Trump and Musk.
BJWTech
IDK... My wife and her friends love these shows that are supposed to be real life and all it is are a bunch of rich women fighting all the time. I truly don't get it. But the demographic exists.
ProperWeirdo
Yes please
Tolocamp
She's right, it can be frightening to watch something that has the tone of an almost normal conversation and both parties smile, but shower each other with intricate backhanded compliments that make your eyes water and feel like you pulled some muscle in your inner thigh.
stickywiggit
I mean, we do fight that stupid but so do men (clearly). Yes, some people are turning it into a sexism thing and taking it way too far, but this is the most appropriate use for the "Presidential Alert: the girls are fightiiiinnnnggg" meme I have ever seen.
owlcatsanctuary101
Have you seen the amount of mockery posts of Trump? Often he's dressed as a girl / woman, as if that's an insult. Sure, to Trump it probably is, but it still sets the tone. The world is full of degrading bs against women and alike. "You have to learn to live with it" or you'll go insane. I don't mean that people should give up, it's just so engrained in society you'd be fighting constantly on all fronts and not actually living. I'm glad someone is addressing this specific issue though. To FP!
KittyKlimt6
Thank you
MaleProstateMilker88
True, and there's fatphobia and ableism as well as homophobic comments, using "gay" in a degatory manner. This is what happens when people normalise it. It is no different from the way Musk and Trump talk.
ProphetofEntropy
i agree it is sexist, but its also important that when you insult someone they know they ARE being insulted, especially when you want them to know them to know they are being mocked.
ProphetofEntropy
that said i like how this points out that trump and musk are not only childish but stupid.
wannasee
We, as a society really need to the examine our internalized misogyny and homomphobia. Your female- and gay/queer- identified "loved" ones, who have been perpetrated against by these types of hetero men, are watching what you say and making note of whether that means you are safe space for them or whether to drop efforts with you and just write you off as being, yet, more unsafe par for course.
vegivamp
Yes, and you know what? Not everyone cares, and some of us can make the distinction of how it's said. Don't pretend to speak for all of us.
Krakencrotch
Joke's on them, I'm already insane.
SugarSmack
wannasee
Would you be willing to say that to the actual girls who they victimized?
owlcatsanctuary101
Ofcourse not. That is not ("just") sexism, that is sexual assault and disgusting criminal behavior. They're two very different things. I was mainly speaking about the general sexism that exists against women. The way it's engrained into our language and society, not actual crimes. I'm talking about the constant seemingly "little" and "normal" things that drag us down.
wannasee
"Of course not," Really? The awareness of how toxic this language is there, but just keep reinforcing it anyway because that is the way it is?
Please also be willing to explain that to the girls who were victimized. The people who have been victimized the most won't ask for the explanation, but they are watching how we use language to determine whether we are safe spaces...or just par for the course.
owlcatsanctuary101
I see you really don't get it. Best of luck.
owlcatsanctuary101
But we do have to learn to live with it, because there is simply too much of it in the world to address. If I started fighting everything everywhere I would never leave the house, speak or do anything. Cause it's literally everywhere. That doesn't mean ee can't strive for a better world though. It's more of a pick your battle kinda thing.
That aside. What happened and happens to girls and women around the world is absolutely sickening and these criminals need to be punished.
wadatahmydamie
snoffler
We have to learn to call it out everywhere we see/hear it, and to raise our children better
MatrimBloodyCauthon
Completely agree, but also prepare our children for the parents who are teaching THEIR children with bigotry. Hard to do that.
wadatahmydamie
This must be that wokeness I keep hearing so much about
owlcatsanctuary101
Agreed
charliechaplinslookalike
Is bitches more appropriate? Serious question.
spinbutton3
How about Boys will be boys?
wannasee
How about "it's just locker room talk" or "we redact or delete history so we don't have to be held accountable for our bad behaviors that have consequences for everyone else."
spinbutton3
That's a good one.
wannasee
Seerious answer: Bitches are female dogs. It always comes back to insulting a women in order to be offend another group of people. The misogyny(like racism and homophobia) is so internalized in our society, that is insidious to our language. But we can fix it:
History lesson: The naming of the BLM movement is part of a saying "When Black Lives Matter, All Lives Matter." Means giving respect to people who are shat on the most in society leads to society, as whole, being better for all in it.
charliechaplinslookalike
As I was typing this I realized your point and am ashamed of myself. I was about to say “instead of bitch I should call them a pussy?” Which is equally misogynistic. I will do better. Sorry everyone
wannasee
I can see that you are - and want to be - a safe space for people around you. The people who need to see that safety to feel safe will see that in you too.
wannasee
Thank you for engaging the discourse with me. We are all works in progress on this because it is so insidious in the language. I once attended a a gender workshop where we had to evaluate lyrics of music and I can't tell how heartbreaking it was to realize that if I actually listened past a good beat, how many misogynistic, homophobic, and racist messages we recieve...on the dance floor! Now there are so many songs that I can listen to or sing along with because I see it and can't ignore it.
ebonyfaery
Even AOC said something along these lines and it really put me off her if I'm honest
quzar
The context of the exact phrase she used may help if you weren't familiar: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-girls-are-fighting
It wasn't a generic 'oh they're girls' attack on masculinity.
ebonyfaery
The whole trend is toxic and the fact that she's gone along with it ain't great imo
wannasee
We actually need to remember the little girls that have been harmed
ebonyfaery
Yooooo I have this in my posts from aaaaaaages ago, the first time he was elected. He's a horrible piece of shite.
TofuGolem
If you degrade men by calling them girls, you are implying that women are less than men.
wannasee
Everybody who is down voting you is letting you know whether they are safe space - regardless of whether they identify with these marginalized communities or not.
Can't be a safe space when they are carrying around all that internalized misogyny and homomphobia...
TheElliotPage
True... but: I don't see anyone calling Trump & Musk "men"
ProphetofEntropy
girls are children, its why they arent being called women cause that isnt the same level of insult to their machismo.
wannasee
And not *in the least bit* offensive to their victims, right?
TheElliotPage
I love how Trump has the biggest ego, but has ZERO reason to have an ego. Hilarious!
KingKrabvoldIV
The term being used is from the gay community and its roots are not even referring to women. Learn a little and stop being offended for your own sake.
TofuGolem
Wait, I'm the one who is constantly offended? You fascists have ZERO self-awareness.
KingKrabvoldIV
‘Everyone I don’t agree with is a fascist!’
TofuGolem
Wow. Who do you think that argument fools? The whole world thinks you're a fascist. History will identify you as a fascist. Experts on fascism identify you as a fascist.
That's your best counterargument? Seriously? Why are fascists always the DUMBEST possible white people?
KingKrabvoldIV
You keep using the word fascist in a manner where it’s evident you don’t underhand its definition. Go get some sleep and try again.
FlyByGRider
Even AOC said the girls are fighting. I thought it was weird she would punch down on women like that
wannasee
She wants thinking about the actual girls
quzar
She wasn't. That specific line is a meme that exactly fits the scenario of a public social media feud : https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-girls-are-fighting
custardandfishfingers24
I don't think that's how she meant it. I think she was being very familiar.
ProphetofEntropy
you can construct the wittiest insult ever but if the people its aimed at are too stupid to be insulted by it ends up only 'preaching to the choir' and politics is about changing opinions.
TheElliotPage
yeah. AOC should have used the "b-word"
FlyByGRider
Boys
ahleron
She didn't punch down on women. She exploited Trump's misogynist attitudes.
CharlesMontgomeryBurns
It's a phrase that comes from the black and drag communities, no one is punching down.
ThanatosElNyx
Yeah sometimes one uses words they don't agree with for no other reason than the subject will be offended. I agree she shouldn't stoop to their level.
Thetruthwillmakeyoupee
Shit that's like half of the front page of Imgur/reddit. Petty high school drama circles over out of context/doctored photos/remarks. It's like facebook but a different flavor of rage baiting and bitching.
Scruffy2
I don't think she sees it as an insult. But I think she knows THEY do see it as an insult.
wannasee
I don't think she sees her own level of internalized misogyny that rationalizes putting her own gender down to make an insulting comparison but WE (who identify as part of these marginalized communities and have been perpetrated against by the very people she is insulting) see it as insulting too...and very disappointing.
wannasee
Y'all can downvote me all you want but here are the actual "girls" that have been harmed by these rapists so say it to their faces and let them know you are not a safe space either.
vegivamp
Oh, piss off with the pretending you speak for everyone in the community. Get off your fucking high horse. Some of us punch the bastards where it hurts them without worrying about our mail polish.
Chocolatecoveredmoose
She’s not. She’s throwing their misogynistic words back at them and also quoting Ru Paul’s Drag race.
wannasee
Ok!!!
ilovetraveler
I think if that was said by somebody in the republicunt party, it would be misogynistic. Said by AOC, I think its deliberately intended to make the misogynists butt hurt about being called something they deem inferior.
FlyByGRider
I'm not mad at her, I just think girls act better than these two rich grown men.
ilovetraveler
Definitely true. And I think AOC would agree. I just think she said that because it's guaranteed to make both of those narcissistic douchebags even madder than they already are.
wannasee
That made me sad. I love AOC...and she has some internalized misogyny to work through. Damn shame!!
CharlesMontgomeryBurns
It's a phrase that comes from black and drag communities, there's literally nothing to be sad about, at least in this regard.
wannasee
Can you explain it to these little girls, too?
wannasee
History lesson: we put the "L" first in LGBTQ because it was the lesbian community who stepped in to care for dying gay men with AIDS and buried them with love and dignity. We should be honoring them better than this.
The people who are using this language, today, are not using it with the same intent as the people who created this language.
Ownvite if you will- I will still choose to be a safe space for people victimized to the point that "they can't take a joke."
wannasee
There is a lot of internalized mysogyny, racism and himophobia within the black and gay community too. And a lot of people who identify as being within these communities who are demonstrating they can't be safe spaces for those who have victimized by white hetero men to the point they "can't take a joke".
Thise people won't say anything. But they are watching a figuring out who is an ally and who is just, yet more, par for the course.
Downvote me; I will be a safe space anyway.
wannasee
Black and drag communities are notorious for playing internalized with hate and now we see people outside of those groupsusing this language - not the same ways. If that is you, do you, boo. But I wholly reject being told how I am supposed to feel or that I should minimize the experiences of my loved ones. That is not how I demonstrate being a safe space for people who have been victimized to the point that "they just can't take a joke."
vegivamp
And yet here you are, all over the thread, telling others how they are supposed to feel about it. Hypocrite.
KingKrabvoldIV
The term originated in the gay community and not a slight against women.
wannasee
Gay community should evaluate that...level of internalized misogyny. Histoey lesson: We put "L" first in LGBTQ because it was lesbian women who came to care for gay men dying of AIDS in the 80's when the rest of the country abandoned and ostracized them - in sickness, with transfusions, and in burying them with love and dignity. We could be honoring them better than this.
wannasee
Say all the hateful shit you want to say to me to actual little girls who have been sexually harmed by these men. Say it to their faces, with your chest out so they know just what kind of a safe space you aren't!
KingKrabvoldIV
You’re trying to pick a battle where there isn’t one. Grow up.
wannasee
Thank you for letting me know you are not a safe space for thise victimized to the point that "they can't take a joke." Noted. Duly.
KingKrabvoldIV
Any woman feeling victimized over that comment is casting themselves as one. They check their privilege in a mirror.
wannasee
Now you have been blocked!!
paladinofseattle
Uh oh, the girls are fighting.
KingKrabvoldIV
Thank you for letting me know you’re ignorant to context and culture.