MaxximumB
34974
1209
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His timing was about 40 years off, but still...
Jan 20, 2025 12:39 AM
MaxximumB
34974
1209
45
BatmanAndCradleRobin
doublethink didnt just happen. Its existed for as long as humans existed. Think of any religion, or when Orwell was doing his thing about what America was doing or what Russia was doing. True in the past, true when he said it, and true now.
DemonDarakna
Also read Animal Farm. It's like reading about politics in real time.
jgjgjgjgjgjgjg
Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, needs to read Orwell's 1984. EVERYONE.
mars23fi999
And then watch the Joe Rogan, Mike Benz talk.
welcometothedystopia
EatPieLander
It may have simply taken 40 years for us to all realize.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Telemapus
It was a prediction of life in 1984 and the OP is saying he was exactly 40 years off, as if political doublethink hasn't been noticed until just now.
mukenukem
Although I heard about 1984 and knew it's theme, I have been now 52 and have it read the first time. Wow, Orwell could see the future. Same with Idiocracy. It's sad how stupid people are. Never stop learning, be curious, don't believe every shit some idiot is telling. Question things.
Dingledonglejingle
I would perhaps throw in Karen Boye's Kallocain from 1940...
3Davideo
The timeline in the book had their system implemented in the fifties or so and by the time of the narrative had been in place for several decades.
DoucheBaggington
I always find it interesting how both sides (Dems/Reps) use Orwell's works to warn against their opposition.
Reps use it to warn against censorship and groupthink (collectivity) while Dems use it to warn against the surveillance state and oppression.
Like2Fox
No it wasn't. He's pulling from the 1930s Soviet Union, not inventing new concepts
Allrighty
The mistake people made was thinking "oh yeah, that's an inherent flaw of communism all right, good thing we never have to worry about that under capitalism!" so that's why it seemed speculative to them. I would say it's inherent to an authoritarian surveillance state fuelled by paranoia, which is not necessarily communism but which is certainly where modern-day America is headed.
Like2Fox
Also true
Sh1tMovieGroup
Science fiction does not foretell the future, it criticizes the present, so many fail to understand this..
Telemapus
Arthur C Clarke predicted satellites.
macgerdo
I predict flying cars.
pr3viso
I want my soma for this
jethro007
while you're reading - Why Trump Won: The reasons behind the biggest upset in America's history https://a.co/d/9bg7xdp
Lulabel73
Can I have an example of what you’re dealing with?
nosoupforoldmen
Isn't that just the state of mind where you can understand that there are more than 1 or 2 perspectives on things of which you can understand but not necessarily agree or even believe in?
Allrighty
No, the thing about doublethink is specifically to hold them both to be true, even if they are contradictory. Whether the crowds of people in the novel actually did that, or just acted the part, is left in the middle somewhat; but it was the goal of the Party for anything to be considered truth when it was convenient to be, and to have control over even the private thoughts of its citizens.
nosoupforoldmen
Oh. I really need to read that book
HeywouldJablowme
Fuck George Orwell and 1984 sucks. He was a disgusting creep and that book is stupid. We are living in Aldous Huxley A Brave New World. That book perfectly captures the modern era we are living in now.
MirroredImage
Neither one of us is having the amount of drug-addled sex that would require
Wuz314159
Ackshully... Huxley called it.
MixedDrinksAndMetaphors
Could go for some Soma rn
hsalonen3000
1984 (by Orwell) is mostly "Big Brother is watching", and it about police state , surveillance and forced obedience. Brave New World (by Huxley) is about drowning people in meaningless entertainment, alpha/beta/gamma-things, normal people taking depression meds (soma) and it ends in [SPOILER IN NEXT MESSAGE]
hsalonen3000
..suicide of the main character. Because he saw too much. This was not the society he wanted to live in. [/SPOILER]
wazeewa
We live in a hybrid world of Orwell, Huxley and Bradbury
OmnibusLatinName
Wait! Here comes Heinlein wit ha steel chair!
supertigerlamp
It's a shame these cautionary tales are now basically "How-To" Guides :-(
draconicus
ricpaul
But we know that Canada won't be the 51st state as it had to become a safe haven for people fleeing out of Gilead.
ghostalker
Huxley and Orwell traded correspondence (years after they each published these titles).
vanishinggirl
With a bit a Bradbury thrown in for good measure.
catperson145
Except that 1984 was published before Fahrenheit 451.
WorkerLurker
Ray was my favorite short story writer. Was sad to read he died in 2012.
EntropyEJ
All Summer in a Day, and There Will Come Soft Rains has been among my favorites for a long time.
mikeatike
There was this cartoon that said "We were so afraid to live in Orwell's world, that we forgot we lived in Huxley's."
Tho at this point we're in a Orwell-Huxley-Bradbury gangbang
Wuz314159
mikeatike
Thank you, this was exactly what I was thinking of
jolem53
Nice.
Righteousdew
Yevgeny Zamyatin called it.
DopeChicken
So the holy trinity is 1984, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451?
bearatrooper
Correct.
welcometothedystopia
One more? Facebook is now allowing people to call women household objects
Wuz314159
girlonabuffaloooo
You forgot We, by Yevgeny Zamyatin
DrMarioSThompson
Beat me to it by three minutes. Orwell thought Huxley must have been inspired by We, tho Huxley denied that. Orwell himself certainly was. They are all great, and We is it's own amazing thing not just where some of the later ideas came from. It's great - read it!
girlonabuffaloooo
Loved this book.
MrsF1nch
It's also relatively short, for those who don't want to spend too much of their time reading classic works of art
blaghart
His timing was based on contemporary thinking when he wrote the book in 1948. This has always been how politics and support for right wing ideologies has worked, it's just that thanks to the internet you can see it more clearly now
thelegendofthetwistednavigator
Yeah, both 1984 and Animal Farm were primarily attacks on the Soviet Union.
Orwell gave the names of communist supporting students to MI5.
He was anti-fascist but let's not pretend he wasn't also against communist regimes.
His opposition was to extremism and the dictatorial control/suppression that all extreme politics regimes demand, not to one wing or the other
blaghart
Orwell was a socialist, he was against the soviet union because the soviet union was a fascist state with a single dictator for life. Your delusion that "all extreme politics demands dictatorial control!" is a result of looking at dozens of fascist regimes and stupidly insisting they're all telling the truth when they claim to be communists...except the national socialist workers party, they're lying, because the nazis were obviously fascist. But not the united soviet socialist republics /s
thelegendofthetwistednavigator
Ah, the old "all communist dictatorships have never been true communism so they don't count" arguments.
And you combine it with "I like that author so I'll put my version of politics onto their beliefs so that I don't have to think (in nuance or otherwise)"
Dude, you are just the type of person that has meant that every communist regime has descended into a dictatorial police state.
It's a fluke that you don't wear a MAGA hat
blaghart
Hot take brought to you by the person currently spouting literal fascist propaganda designed to demonize leftists lmao. Tell me, how can you have a communist dictatorship? How can you have a government where the people own the means of production that is also a government where no one but a select few at the top of the hierarchy own the means of production? I'll wait. :)
blaghart
Boy that is a DEAFENING silence from the political science expert lmao. It's almost like you don't actually know what you're talking about and are just regurgitating something you heard daddy say once lol
AllMaktAtTengilVarBefriare
Yeah lets not pretend this is exclusive to right wing politics.
styxthetrashbandit
Let's not pretend politics isn't exclusively right wing at this point. Even Democrats aren't left enough for most left wing constituents.
blaghart
as soon as you can name a government where the people directly controlled the means of production that his criticisms apply to I'll be sure to entertain your patently bogus claim that "this isn't exclusive to right wing politics" lmao.
AllMaktAtTengilVarBefriare
Oh a tankie, nevermind.
dbsamurai
Tankies think that the USSR was good bud. The person you're responding to has said the USSR is fascist. Whereas you're the one currently trying to defend fascism by saying "leftist do it toooooo!"
tryingmybest1
You poor guy making that valid point on this platform. Better hope too many go into the comments or you’ll be downvoted into oblivion.
AllMaktAtTengilVarBefriare
Got to stir up the echo chamber from time to time.
Zeplin
1984 is primarily a criticism of communism where everything is state controlled with total surveillance. Think Stalins Soviet Union, or current China.
What a weird take that it's now somehow a criticism of the Right.
blaghart
Orwell was a socialist, and 1984 and Animal Farm are criticisms of fascism, including the tendency of fascists to cloak themselves in leftist rhetoric the way the USSR AND the national socialist workers party of Germany did. You may remember the national socialist workers party of Germany better by their nickname, the NAZIS.
IconicM
The extremes tend to wrap around more than people want to admit.
blaghart
Horseshoe theory is a result of looking at every fascist government on earth calling itself "socialist" and saying "These fascists are all telling the truth about being communists except for the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany. Them Nazis were lying about being socialists, but not the USSR, or the CCP, or any of those other fascists"
IconicM
The Bolsheviks implemented Marxism. Turns out when you elect a "Dictator of the Proletariat" you actually get a Dictator. But I was actually talking about the people. Wanting to get rid of one group of people to solve problems isn't different than getting rid of a different group. But no, I'm sure the group *you* hate is the real problem. Which is it, globalists or billionaires? Oh wait, what's difference?
blaghart
>the bolsheviks implement marxism!< The Krondstat Rebellion immediately disproves that delusion lmao. >wanting to get rid of a group of people isn't any different< Ah yes there is no difference between good and bad things. You absolute genius.
Allrighty
I mean, Orwell was a social democrat who went to shoot fascists in Spain. He was critical of the Soviet Union, but I'm not sure if, in his eyes, that was criticism of "the left".
blaghart
Orwell was a socialist, not a social democrat. But otherwise, you are correct. His criticism of the USSR was aimed at criticizing fascism and the fascist tendency to claim it's leftist to ingratiate the common people
AngryRaven
Yeah, dude was a Trotskyist. His critiques were more complex than just "Soviet Union bad" or even just "fascism bad".
blaghart
Orwell was a socialist, not a trotskyist. Trotskyism is still red fascism, since it aims to have a hierarchal system with dedicated and codified "leadership" rather than a government where the people are synonymous with the government via direct democracy or some other non-representative system
AngryRaven
I'm seeing that he waffled back and forth throughout his life, but yes, technically by the end he was a socialist.
Zeplin
Unless you are saying the "Left = totalitarian communism", that's not what I said.