dreammer243
36002
901
52
Aug 20, 2024 5:22 PM
dreammer243
36002
901
52
GreaterDog
It's virtually the same sort of thing as "watch how they treat the waiter". It's not like tempting your man to cheat, or the manipulative drama girls purposely orchestrate to get views on TikTok
Vargood
This is excellent advice for anyone. It doesn't matter who you are or who you're dating.
Fauxcused
If I disagreed with my ex wife on anything, no matter how insignificant, she would be angry at me for weeks.
pierrelaplace
As a 63 year old man (why would I lie about that!), I've known way too many dudes that simply could not stomach being "disrespected" by women who had the audacity, the unmitigated gall, to disagree with them. Even I can't stand being around dudes like that. They are...exhausting...and that's putting it mildly.
Higure
Uhm, isn't the whole point of initial dating that it is just one big test? So what if some of it is done consciously?
bloodbloodbloodblood
"These people who swoop in reducing everything to the most essential principle and testing it for 100% purity need to get outdoors and get some real-life experience." A-fucking-men
tster1973
Here's a cool trick to see if a woman is a needy princess.... tell her 'no' on something.
friendsofsandwiches
It CAn get frustrating when it becomes a 'I can't do this time, you do THAT time?' 'no, that time is no good, how about this time', but...that's a relationship. You deal. Or you don't and break it off.
Of course this from someone who's never been in a real relationship, so I should just stfu.
Corks
i assume its the initial conversation from a dating app or something so its a litmus test not a constant thing
in a relationship that works youll never have to think about this again and disagreements will still happen but theyll arise naturally and youll just deal with them as they come
SomebodyalreadytookMyPants
I am so glad I found love before online dating became the sole method for meeting potential love interests. (Also this post makes me recognize the privilege of being a male, Ladies I am sorry so many of us are assholes)
Littledirtybirdyfeet
I got lucky meeting someone in the wild a decade ago. I would not want to date nowadays.
ThatRaccoonGuy
Well it's not ALL dating websites now. I met my partner at a furry event. Lots of people meet at conventions, online gaming, book club, camping parties, etc
Friendlyhedgehog
As much as it sucks that many men are assholes, it does make keeping a relationship easier if you're a good dude. My wife's said "why would I want to go back to sorting through dozens of men with profile pictures of them holding fish, only to discover they're an asshole and may rape me?"...and I can't fault her logic.
bigblindguy
I mean, it's totally anecdotal and has a sample size of one, but I met my wife a couple of years ago. I just threw away safety and security and decided to change career and met a lovely woman while in re-training and now we are married. So yeah, no internet involved at all.
NVGoddesscottage
Yes. This is gender free zone. I teach parents of kids with disabilities to understand what it means to be an equal participant at an school planning meeting. Teaching them to say “No” to insignificant things helps them toward saying no to bigger things like segregation.
Mr21782Man
Make sure you understand the definition of "minor inconvenience" before doing this test. Asking a few days before that you want to change your mind about the place or time, cool. Asking them 5 minutes before you're suppose to be their, not so cool. I had a friend that loved these tests and would do this all the time. She got confused why she ended up with shitty dudes all the time.
HoneyBunchesOfStoats
I assumed they were talking about doing this during the initial scheduling of the date, not saying that you should call up afterwards and change plans.
Mr21782Man
That's because you're not an asshole. You might be surprised what your fellow humans think.
LostCaterpillar
This is *exactly* the thought I had. Also looks bad if you're obviously... I don't know if lying is the word here since the point is that you don't need to give a reason but if you say "sorry I didn't show, I just couldn't make it" and I can see that you're playing League or Fortnight that sends a message about how much you value me and my time.
Then again, maybe it's better to communicate that early anyway? I don't know, we didn't have this kind of surveillance on each other when I was dating.
ProppaGanda
It's really a matter of basic safety and anybody who gets mad that a woman might do that completely misunderstands the social gender dynamics.
mithiwithi
Here's the thing: you aren't ENTITLED to know why they don't want to meet at a coffee shop, or why Wednesday doesn't work for them, or what their problem is with green shirts, especially not from someone who, at that point, is a complete stranger. If you think you ARE entitled to such information... she's better off with the bear.
BisquiteenTrisket
it's only a test if you feel tested by it. this seems like a basic, normal interaction- "wanna go here?", "well, how about this instead ?", "sure, that's fine". end of the day, the goal is to spend time with the person anyway.
theonetheycallmonk
You want to know a lot about a person? See what they do with their grocery cart and how they treat the staff at a restaurant.
netboygold
I'm a guy, and I'm 42. so I haven't dated since like 2004 so I would expect somethings to change, but are people really like this now? Like, do 20something guys normally wigg out if I girl suggests something different? Or is this one of those things where they're a little over the top? l just can't imagine adults acting like this.
JayEnfield
Assholery is on a normal distribution curve. Most people are in the middle at "kinda dicks sometimes". But 10% of people are in the worst 10% of people. And this is true in ANY group or demographic. You want to see how wretchedly vile, aggressive, and insecure young people can be? Spend 5 minutes in the lobby chat of any competitive game.
Hammertulski
Bud, it’s not age-specific. There are plenty of frustrated and dangerous men in your demo that need filtering out like this for safety reasons.
mikeatike
As a 46 year old dude, I find it's more likely for men to get worse as they age. Especially if they've just not been told no enough by a woman for the past 30 years.
Grurim
This is similar to watching how your date treats the help at any venue you go to. If they treat them bad, or dismissively, that's a big red flag. If more people learned how to proactively and positively do these little "tests" (which really aren't tests, just observing behavior) during dating, I think everyone would end up better off.
nachosyndicate
Or if you set a boundary and someone loses their shit. Big red flag.
bgkev
OK, I'm a gay dude, and I was like, Oh, this makes perfect sense. Of course, a perfect response would be like, "Oh sure, would you like to suggest a different location/time/activity?" and then reading the horrorshow of what happened next just reminded me just how awful men can be. People of all genders have a life outside of your genitals and desires, yo.
WhatTheFrench
I started doing this subconsciously after my first bad relationship experience in my teens. What I thought I was doing at the time was “taking it slow” and “making sure things felt right” before moving forward with someone, but what that looked like was saying no now and then and asking for what I wanted and not being afraid to cut things short if my boundaries weren’t respected.
SomeOneHasBeenLookingForYou
umm IMHO: we always test potential partners, in a variety of ways. We may not "know" we're doing it, but isn't every interaction a test of compatibility?? Like this is such a no-brainer for me, a guy, to be like "well shit, yeah. that's a real thing to test." There are so many benign methods for feeling out another person, regardless of relationship/identity that the response (if you realize/know it's a test) should be "oh that's a good way to vet someone's character!"
mikeatike
Well said. The whole point of dating is to test to see if you can get along with someone. I see a lot of people who get rejected after one date get all pissed off "they didn't give me a chance! Its not fair!" Yo, that itself is the red flag.
RTK4740
I mean…everything is a test. What a date talks about, what they ain’t discuss, how they treat wait staff, everything is an observable, listenable test. How is this different?
seedye
It’s contrived
TheActualFBI
Something feels more natural than going out of your way to test people out, so its kind of not the same.
mikeatike
Username... suspicious.
Nalianna
My wife recently told me she tried to pick a fight on our first date, and because of how i reacted, that's why she chose to marry me.
mikeatike
With you or with someone else?
Nalianna
With me. (apparently).
Nalianna
I wasn't even aware.
AllieRiot
That's a great idea. It's depressing how useful this seems.
Atomic2
Seems great from both sides honestly. There are some absolutely toxic women out there too, not sure why this was gendered.
AllieRiot
TRUTH
dreammer243
You're right. I think it's because there's more communication woman to woman about how to protect themselves. Men can and should use tools like this to protect themselves too, especially when it does no harm as some in the images pointed out.
BeardicPerformance
You’re absolutely correct but you know why this is gendered.
“Men, here’s a test to see if the woman you’re talking to is crazy; just say ‘no’ to something she suggests with no explanation and see how she reacts.”
That is going to get called “abusive” and a “red flag” WAY more than the exact same sentence here did with the genders flipped.
BullshitUpTheWhazoo
As a woman, no this doesn't seem abusive. It's a good tip all around. But the men that are angry about this test and find reasons to get angry about it are the same as the women that would find a gender flipped version of this "abusive". Aka - not worth your time.
Atomic2
I think if you said that but replaced "crazy" with "controlling" or even "a princess" it would probably be fine.
BeardicPerformance
Using the exact same phrasing of “see if a woman actually respects you” would be just as bad or worse than “crazy” though.
InfocalypseRising
Imagine reading this, reacting with "how am I supposed to know it's a test," and failing to realize that that reaction makes you exactly the kind of person this is meant to filter out
TI99Kitty
I have a feeling that a Venn diagram of these guys and the guys who get mad at women for choosing the bear would just be a single circle.
dreammer243
TrueNorthernLights
Yup
Dagordae
Relationship tests are normally toxic as hell. This? Yeah, this so trivial that someone failing it is just embarrassing.
PerkyPervertedPet
I would assume simply that test won't work to distinct the good from the bad.
PerkyPervertedPet
Because no one would throw a fit about this.
ForTheBestReally
Some people absolutely would. And I am glad that you have not encountered this brand of asshole, but they exist. This is also just like, a vibe check kinda thing? (It also serves to encourage women to de-program themselves a little) And maybe they don’t throw a fit exactly, but maybe they ask too many prying questions or tries to wheedle to get their way and it just sours the interaction. It just gives you more information to work with when you’re making your other plans.
bigblindguy
Well, it's kinda like being stupid. I'm fairly smart: smart enough to know that there is A LOT I don't know, and MANY people MUCH smarter than me. But really stupid people aren't aware that they are stupid, they have no way to judge since they can't understand how stupid they are or how smart anyone else is. It's like that. Scumbags often do not know they are scumbags, it never occurs to them that "everyone I meet is an asshole" is because they make mad by being a scumbag all the time.
Burke616
Alternately, they think, "everyone I meet is an asshole, therefore everyone is an asshole, therefore I am justified in using any underhanded trick to get my way, and anyone getting their way must likewise be using underhanded tricks! I will not play fair, but I will appeal to fairness anytime it seems like it'll get me what I want." Only, y'know, translated to stupid asshole.
keyblader1985
Self awareness is not the strong suit of douchebags
porphyre1e00
My guess is people who react like that are 25 or younger and have to deal with stuff like this constantly in the current dating world. And I'm guessing that's not you.
aswimmingseaman
Douchebaggery knows no age limit my friend
Dagordae
Stuff like negotiating when and where to meet?
Quizz25S
"Youre not supposed to know it's a test. That would defeat the purpose.
Fn0rd
Yeah! That! If I‘m truly interested in that person this should really not be an issue, sure let’s meet Friday instead, not at the coffeeshop, you don’t know yet? Sure do you have a spot in mind? (Maybe something where she might feel safer), no green shirts? Alright, what color is your favorite let’s try that instead? I don’t get how there are people out there that are so inept of basic social behavior, but then again, I am out of the dating game for over 13 years now, I’m glad about that.
SomeOneHasBeenLookingForYou
it's like all the nuances got thrown out
Clockworkdancerobot
My masculinity isn't challenged if a woman isn't sure she can trust me. I realize there are some real creepy and abusive jerks.
friendsofsandwiches
dude's been smoking weed.
EADimgur
While I 100% understand and agree with the message behind the "Bear or Man" thing, I will never see it as anything less then an ill thought out rage-bait from Tik-Tok for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that does nothing but generate hostility where there simply need not be any.
Clockworkdancerobot
I'll say this for it being "Rage Bait" It sure as hell told a lot of women who was not safe to date. If some people dodge a bullet that early, was 100% worth it.
NotTinyPancakes
as a wo,man id also rather encountera bera int he woods but thats becaus etheyre my fave aninals my contry doesnt have themand im totally goign to get mauled ot detah by some animal someday going in for pets
Pishposhbingbong
You end your life how you lived it. doing what we were put here for. see frend, pet frend.
NotTinyPancakes
thats if my grammar doesn't finish me off
Hexogen
I can certainly see bears coming for you in the future, since you appear to have sausagefingers and bears tend to like these kind of snacks :P
NotTinyPancakes
At leatsthe bears will call me a snack :D
CantStopLurking
I feel like it's definitely about the guys who are so vehement that it's about them.
AnonOmis1000
"You're so vein, you probably think this meme is about you"
pareidoliaperson
Same with nazis when you shit talk about nazis.
FaecalJacksonPollock
The real kicker is that the more you insist it's about you, the more it actually becomes about you.
TankoJoe
I'm totally cool with this being done to me after reading the explanation. Honestly I think the initial input should be 50/50. I'm not looking to dote over someone, and I'm not looking to be doted over. Let's go back to back crane style against this MFer.
mikeatike
In my head "back to back crane style" sounds like a battle using construction equipment, and I am totally down
dreammer243
Happy to have it done to me too, as a woman. No one should feel bad about weeding out people who are far too quick to push back against boundaries.
clearlyselfloving
this is why I only fuck bears
AnonOmis1000
Hello there
JeremyGabbard
Same, although sometimes otters slip through.
AnonOmis1000
I mean that is kind of their thing.
KuroFluff
I do not know in which way you mean bears, but there is no need to clarify. You do you (or them?)
CoarseAndSalty
Bears are notoriously patient and understanding. I'm confident little tests like this won't cost you your face or extremities.
TimbiquiDarkThirty
Mmbear
Icouri
That escalated *quickly*. But I've seen my gender. I get it. Enjoy the hibernating season lol
Nismu
dreammer243
piratedn1nj4
Anyone play Baldurs Gate 3? Anyone? Anyone?
NotTinyPancakes
altxatu
I’d make a great bear except the whole not being gay thing I got going on. Maybe next time around.
randomwalrus
Sinasohn
Have I got the magazine for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Magazine
Billis75
I used to hang out at their office before I was old enough to go into the bars. Thirst knows no bounds.
Sinasohn
Sometimes I wish I was gay because, as a big bearded guy in SF, I could have gotten *so many* dates.
Instead, women see me as a fat weird* dude with too much hair.
*weird as in odd, not republican.
tillhammer
I bet you've got stories I'd like to hear
Escapist83
I can totally understand women wanting to test men beforehand to see how they react to situations. I can also understand some men getting tired of being tested all the time. Both can be true.
RedTree6767
Filthy centrist
Xenarion
Preach. The world isn't black and white.
shakefu
If only women had some sort of test to know if she really needs the purse mace for the guy catching up from half a block away, or if she should be covering her drink because of the guy who sidled up at the bar, or if the friend of a friend offering a ride home is really safe to be alone with. Maybe then men wouldn’t have to pass tests like this.
EmptyHouseBurglar
I hear that. But also none of these examples are even close to difficult to respond to in a reasonable way that allows for differences in opinion and desires. Just like a woman Google stalking a man or meeting in public first are basic, reasonable safety checks, this feels very normal to me and so incredibly easy to pass that it isn't a test at all. Bummer we still have this dangerous male culture, for us all. And bummer about the trauma baggage that sometimes gets carried forward.
sjester42
The only one that irritates me is the "No" when you ask her out, and then how you respond to it to see if she can say yes. I've had a couple of girls do this to me and then don't understand why I am not interested. Almost all of the other little "tests" are fine, because I understand that women are dating their own predators, so small things can speak loudly...
MaxximumB
But isn't any conversation on dates a kind of test? Do we share similar interests? Do we have similar moral values? Is religion important?
mymustachecallstheshots
I cannot agree. This is an amazing way to weed out abusive men, it is not a serial relationship killing "but does he really love me". This isnt a test to see "how they react to situations", this is "can this guy handle a woman having the most basic, entry level of autonomy".
Datwungai
I get where you're coming from, but unfortunately this is wrong, for one very simple reason: paradoxically, this only actually be a test for those who would fail it; for anyone else, it would simply be a normal social exchange. If your first response to the test is to be suspicious of being tested... well, Q.E.D.
draek1
Pretty easy test. Just don't be a cunt when you don't get your way. It's a test that never lives for as long as you're in a relationship. Stupid to even think of it in those terms.
draek1
Never ends*
dreammer243
Agreed
spittleteets
Welcome to survey writing! Lol Trying to remove social bias while gauging their attitude-behavior gap without triggering respondant fatigue. Size does matter though, sample size that is...I'll see myself out.
floatationman
OnlyWantToSayOneThing
Sure, but a woman not acting like a slave for 5 seconds in her life as a test compared to spraying half a bottle of ketchup on the table to get someone to clean it up are complete different situations. Calling them both "tests' is reductive since "BS manipulation tactic tests" are just manipulation and not similar to "can we meet at 5:30 instead of 5"
nclu
Just like the bear, it's a certain number of very shitty dudes ruining things for everyone
Cebrail
I think the issue is that, while this sort of "small test" is perfectly valid and fine. I would not so much as blink about them having a different preference or be unable to do something on a suggested day, many feel that the tests never stop.
It starts simple. "Is this guy reasonable" and then it ends up with absurd levels of hoop-jumping and mind-bending tests that at some points stop being about reason and starts being about finding fault in any way possible.
BullshitUpTheWhazoo
I'm sorry that this happened to you. Mind games should be a hard boundary for you before you get emotionally invested, just like this basic and unobtrusive safety tip is a hard boundary for this poster.
clearlyselfloving
I feel like as soon as the murder-victim gender gap is closed, there won't need to be tests. But men have to kill ten times less women, or women have to kill ten times more men. Until then, we need to keep running tests to make sure we aren't murdered, and you have to keep having someone say no to Arby's to see if your reaction is a red flag for being a murderer.
Xenarion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender
HinamilGreyworks
I hope you realize there are 10K more male murder victims than women? If you're meaning domestic partner disputes instead, maybe it would be closer if people actually took male abuse seriously?
clearlyselfloving
I meant men killing women which is ten times more than women killing men
AtomicCometLauncher
Yes, and for the most part they're murdered by men.
realizedagain
Murdered by men mostly right?
SaveitforQueenDoppelpoppolus
i think if your bar for believing someone is not a murderer is, "they're okay with going to chilis instead after they suggested arbys", then, you're probably going to avoid zero murderers.
clearlyselfloving
clearly SOMEONE hasn't seen men on tinder
SaveitforQueenDoppelpoppolus
oh i'm sure there are at least several murderers on tinder. but like, you should set a more stringent filter. many murderers are actually okay with being mildly and irrelevantly inconvenienced. i mean bringing up the bear thing is probably a much better filter than rescheduling is
clearlyselfloving
it's not the ONLY filter, it's a good litmus test though
dreammer243
I'm like, almost on board with you here, but there's a part in there you could safely leave out
clearlyselfloving
it wasn't a suggestion, just a statement of fact
dreammer243
That can be pretty safely left out, my near friend
clearlyselfloving
that's showbiz baby
Duckgooser
Yeah, when I was on dating apps used to get "tests" all the time. I'm easy going, but I don't like being mucked around. I had one date spring speed dating on me after dinner to see if our potential relationship could handle temptation. Never argued, just said "that's not something I feel comfortable with" & left. She messaged me for weeks with no reply from me after
neospor1n
“That sounds great!!! Honestly I was only semi feeling this, maybe we could both do better!! That’d be awesome!!!
Duckgooser
Oh yah. Actual worst I had was a lady I was messaging told me she was trying to find someone for her friend. Sent me her friend's photo & I replied "I recognise her from the app. I'm not interested in her" after a bit of back & forth she messaged me & said "that was a test, was just seeing how shallow you were by trying to set you up with my ugly (she absolutely wasn't) friend" I stopped talking to her then, but had unfortunately given her my number. She would message me all the time late 1/2
Duckgooser
At night asking me to come over, I declined as even if she was real she seemed unstable & honestly thought she wasn't & I was gonna wake up in a bathtub of ice missing a kidney. Ran into her at the supermarket once & she came & confronted me when I was with a heap of co-workers. I bravely dropped my shopping & ran the fuck out of there. Co-workers still give me shit about it. 2/2
wizardOTC
keep your safety man. Glad you weren’t physically assaulted, don’t think running away from crazy is a bad thing!
channelranger
That's a much more unhealthy test that implies worse things, tbf. *That* test says "I am extremely jealous and it is going to be your problem". The one in the post is specifically meant to be minor- "how does this guy react to me not being up for the very first thing he suggests?"
Ermetu
slippery slopes, my friend. While this one really is a nothing burger of a test, all it would take is one idiot on tiktok offering up a much more harmful test, and emphatically stating that if your guy don't do this and that, you should break up with them.
channelranger
I mean, some advice from strangers is really stupid and some advice from strangers is good, all you can do is approach it with a critical eye.
Duckgooser
Yes, but dating is exhausting. I put up with a lot when I was first back on the market, but towards the end if I felt like I was being tested, I would go no contact. I wanted to meet a partner. Not help people work through their baggage. Something innocuous as a location or time change isn't something that would make me feel like I was being tested. But if my date told me they did it to test me in the early stages of dating that'd probably mean the end of our time together
BullshitUpTheWhazoo
I disagree. I think there's a big difference between mond game tests and a basic test to give you a hint if you will be safe with a person. What's exhausting is the fear of not feeling safe. I'm sorry people get emotionally exhausted from mind games, and I get it, but ending a date because someone did a very minor thing to test you aren't going to flip put and hurt them is a red flag too. I will always tell a friend where I am going in case something bad happens. That's not a mind game.
BullshitUpTheWhazoo
But some people may get offended that I don't trust them and am telling someone else where I am just in case. Safety should never be looked down upon or more people will get hurt. Trust me, it's exhausting for the other person to do these things too.
Duckgooser
A red flag that I won't continue the relationship when the other wants to their tests? It's not a red flag. It's literally the end of the relationship. Like I said, when I was single I was looking for a partner, not to council someone through their baggage. If you want to test me, that says to me that you have reason from experience, as do I to end it. It's not a reflection on how they are as a person, it's about what I'm willing to deal with & I have found that even though they may have good 1/
theDogter
I feel like guys could use this tactic as well. There are a lot of Daddy’s girls who were never told no too, so tell them no and see if they melt down. It doesn’t need to be one sex only does the bad thing.
channelranger
Really, anyone could, yes. If your prospective partner cannot handle you not wanting to date on a specific night or at a specific place, that's a very bad sign no matter the gender, because it's a sign you have many petty arguments in your future.
CeoHuntingSeason
I bet a bigger percentage of women "lose" this test, that would men in average have to date more women to find one that passes it than when women do the same thing (among others because they have more suitors, a numbers game) , and given that men most of the time have to take the initiative it means its a lot more wasted effort so in practice it may be better to no do such test at all.
Strategicgnomer
When men fail the "test" women are in danger for their lives. When women fail such a test, men are going to go on a bad date. These are not the same, you obtuse pigfucker.
FlareYes
Why would it matter which gender loses this test more? We are all just flawed people after all. We aren't in competition with eachother.
ag0r
I would guess it's closer to 50/50 than more on either side of everyone is being perfectly honest, but the difference is that men don't generally have to worry about their physical safety and protect themselves using a test like this. You might avoid a shitty relationship but you are less likely to end up in the hospital.
CeoHuntingSeason
Just to put some context, men are 4 times more likely to die of homicide than women, so I'm very skeptical of that kind of claims that women are at higher significant risk vs anyone else
ag0r
Your statistic is probably true but also wildly out of context. In general, it is going to be less dangerous for a man going on a date with a woman than the other way around just because of the inherent biological aren't difference between them if nothing else.
InDubiousBattle
Among women who are murdered, 50% are killed by intimate partners. 10% of murdered men are murdered by their intimate partners. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9838333/
Lun4ticH1gh
You realize, of course, that while men are 4 times more likely to die of homicide, that homicide will likely be at the hands of another MAN, right? And how that not only undermines your point, but also demonstrates theirs?