Nurses threatened for wearing masks.

Mar 26, 2020 7:19 AM

ThatLostLT

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https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/kaiser-permanente-nurses-coronavirus/ Basically some hospitals are threatening to fire nurses for wearing N95’s for different reasons, such as “only if a physician suspects or has confirmed a COVID19 case.” As a nurse on the front lines of this pandemic, this is infuriating. This change is based on supply, not science. You wouldn’t send a cop out without a bulletproof vest, or a firefighter without his gear, don’t try sending me without my ppe. With such a long incubation period, anyone could have this virus; you can’t tell who’s carrying it fast enough. We simply come into contact with too many people. Other nurses, er techs and transporters, doctors, respiratory therapists, family and visitors (many hospitals, mine included, still allow certain visitors). And guess what, if I catch it, I’m probably going to unknowingly infect all my patients before I end up in a bed next to them, and then we’re one nurse shorter. If they’ll let someone wear a goddamn bandanna under cdc guidelines, then I should be able to wear an N95 if I’m lucky enough to have one.

This is so ridiculous that its hard to believe its even real.

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

My organization tried doing the same. Stating if we practiced proper PPE in common areas we would be safe. Sorry to say a clinical lab 1/2

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

2/2 is NOT a common area. We can’t draw patients 6ft away. Hopefully multi mil corp. learn from this lesson.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I say go ahead and wear the masks. If they get fired, I can assure you they'll have another job lined up elsewhere by tomorrow.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I'm in the medical field as well and where I work we have to reuse all of our face shields and masks. It's just awful and gross

6 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

You can sterilize N95 masks up to 5 times if your hospital isn’t doing this bring it up

6 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

This sounds horrible but also like kinda bullshit. Gonna research

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

It sounds like one of those deals where one employee said something dumb or offensive and the whole company gets blamed for it.

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Nurses and Docs any needed EVERYWHERE. Walk away from there and sorry for the sick but with cunts managers as such, that's the only cure.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Email sent

6 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 3

GTFOH

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

So what happens if all of the nurses show up wearing masks? They’re all going to be fired? Yeah good luck with that!

6 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

I’d live to see a hospital administrator try to run a hospital without nurses!

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

*love

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Snopes?

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I guess i know which hospital is run by grandpa nurgle

6 years ago | Likes 192 Dislikes 5

LITTLE KITTEN! YOU MUST SQUAT MORE FREQUENTLY!!

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Hey Nurgle is doing it out of love for everyone, not hatred for the lower classes.

6 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

6 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

That's great

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I haven’t been a member at Kaiser since 1990 when I had to convince the doctor that I broke my toe. Finally agreed to x-ray. It was broke.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

This is happening everywhere. Same at my hospital. This needs to be addressed publicly by government agencies. If I supply my own what the

6 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 0

fuck is it to you! In a global pandemic we need to do what we need to do to protect ourselves. Period.

6 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

A lot of opinions on this based off of a site that I question the legitimacy and whether or not all the facts are there...

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

This is profit-driven insanity in the US thanks to privatized health care. I should say, the US "health exploitation system".

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Brilliant.. No one in their right mind would fire a functioning, front line medical professional for this.

6 years ago | Likes 37 Dislikes 2

Ohhh do i have news for you. My former employer in Chicago just fired a nurse for this.

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Shame.gif. former employer? Story time?

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I can't speak for the nursing side. I was in I.T., that was a shitshow to say it best.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

If they are low on masks then they might be forced to stingy with them, regardless of what usually is considered good practice.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

This is what happens when you let health care be run as a for profit business.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Seems the only sites I can find this on are those weird fringe-y "news" sites.

6 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

I haven't been this mad at a Kaiser since 1914.

6 years ago | Likes 78 Dislikes 1

Yeah ngl my first thought was "what country has a Kaiser"?

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

C'mon people. That's good.

6 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

Heh.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I haven't been this made at Kaiser since 1973.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Everything here at my hospital is being rationed. We have to re use one mask for every patient, and written up for wearing a mask in the hal

6 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

And I just signed out my mask and gown for the day. I don't really know what to think about that.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I actually challenged my DON on use in hallways and sent this article in my argument. It took a week but no we are wearing them at all 1/2

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

times with exceptions to bathroom and meal breaks. https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30097-9/fulltext

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28799710 this is another study with a beautiful graph of targeted vs continuous use. good luck, be safe

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Funny just a month ago if you didn't get the flu shot you were required to wear a mask in the hall or be written up.

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Exactly & if someone spotted you with your mask off at all during your shift, you got written up. I got my flu shot but still, it’s madness.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Fucking hell. Can the corporate assclowns in my country be any fucking scummier? Guess I shouldn’t challenge em though huh?

6 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 5

I work in healthcare, please do not...

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

to the front page to raise awareness

6 years ago | Likes 163 Dislikes 13

I smell lawsuit.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

I mean, firing someone for following CDC guidance? Whoever put out that memo has the IQ rating of a potato.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

This is the only article I've seen about this. Are there other sources?

6 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

The issue is nurses bringing in unapproved equipment, which is potentially dangerous.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Is there another side to this story?

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

No! The firing part is fake news

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Yeah, this.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

I’m lost on what side you are fighting from... do you want to wear pipe or not?

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Ppe not pipe

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

She does. She’s upset they won’t let her

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

I got confused when they argued that they did nothing...

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The surgical masks are different from n95 masks. They are rationing out n95 masks Bc they are a more limited supply and just giving out

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Surgical masks to most of the staff which she states are worthless but are actually effective for care except during aerosolizing procedures

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Ok I’m less confused now.. appreciate the explaination.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Should be fairly easy to find an alternative employer. Their skills are in demand right now.

6 years ago | Likes 47 Dislikes 1

Absolutely right! Kaiser has made it clear that they don’t care about there nurses. Let them find new ones that are willing to work there.

6 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 1

And that’s how the market is supposed to work. If only it worked outside a literal pandemic

6 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

Yes but they still risk losing employer healthcare in the gap, and look s of employers don't cover new hires for the first few months.

6 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

*lots of

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I don't know of many hospitals which do not immediately provide insurance upon hire within the first month.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Thank god you guys are safe from the great evils of socialist healthcare

6 years ago | Likes 50 Dislikes 12

Oh yeah, how's Italy doing? Spain?

6 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 22

Work in hospital, by next week will probably pass China. Free market healthcare is a joke.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Not too well. The US will be much, much worse though, even relative to population. You're fucked.

6 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

Give it another month and we'll see how America is doing.

6 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 2

Very well supported by their government and hospitals while they deal with an unprecedented situation. Thanks for asking though.

6 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 6

Those hospitals are just as short on supplies. Even Finland is on lock down and their health official is questioning WHO's testing 1/

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

recommendations now that they have run out of testing capacity. It's simple statistics. There just isn't enough of anything.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Are any of those hospitals threatening staff with immediate dismissal without appeal if they refuse to unnecessarily risk their lives?

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

They are being threatened with termination if they were their own personal personal masks which you can't do anyway.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Regulations would state they can’t treat patients without a mask either, but you don’t seem too concerned about that, bootlicker

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

I thought for a second it said great Elvis.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Socialist healthcare could have saved the king

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yes because Italy and Spain are doing a much better job....

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

They are actually. Very much so.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Yup. More deaths vs infections. Lack of medical supplies. Rationing. Yup. Much. Better. LOL

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

Italy has the second oldest population in the world and got hit far worse, far earlier before the rest of the world knew how bad it could be

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Already past the peak of their virus spread and starting to see death numbers decreasing. Hospitals well stocked and staff well supported

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Rationing nowhere in Spain and Italy. Supermarkets are fully stocked. Should try getting your info from places other than breitbArt

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

and this is why surgical masks are virtually useless

6 years ago | Likes 131 Dislikes 38

They're not if they're ASTM rated. They're just only really useful for not spreading COVID to others if you have it.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

With N95 as ex, being rated at 95% eff at filtering 0.3um particles means that it's better at smaller ones

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It's really not that simple lol

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Surgical masks are extremely useful for preventing infection during surgeries. Hence their name.

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Of course N95 protect from smaller particles, but viruses in sputum are much bigger than that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26952529

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

According to that data even an n95 mask isn't fully protective against the virus.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Thing is the virus is usually in respiratory droplets, not just floating around on its own. Respiratory droplets are generally 10 to 100 um

6 years ago | Likes 30 Dislikes 1

Well.. Thought experiment: droplet w/hi virus concentration hits mask on outside, droplet size reduzed due to evaporation, hence droplet 1/2

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

2/2 size smaller/virus amount same, droplet can surpass mask barrier and is breathed in. There are numerous other examples e.g.voids in mask

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

y'know what, I'll take my fucking chances with ANY protection than none at all, medieval troops wore leather armor, wouldn't stop a blade-

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

still increased their chances, however marginally for survival

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Source?

6 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 2

"Uncle John's Bathroom Reader". He knows his shit.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Someone on the internet.

6 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 2

It is way more complicated than particle size vs pore size. Look up most penetrating particle size.

6 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

Source: me, I have designed filters for 17 years, and have 9 patents on filters and filter processes

6 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

Seconded, I'd love to hear more about this, and it's pretty critical information right now. Followed:)

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

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[deleted]

6 years ago (deleted Oct 21, 2024 11:52 PM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

I'm going to post it to the original post as well. Hope it helps explain it!

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I'll put something together and link it here.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You're amazing❤

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You should make a post about them and all of this I would love to read it. Advanced favourite and doot.

6 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Let me see what I can put together and I'll link a post here.

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

dooted

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Even with those sizes there is a percentage reduction. Not 100% but I saw a study which said 70% reduction so no, not virtually useless.

6 years ago | Likes 89 Dislikes 5

There are also layers of material right? I’m not a microbiologist, but would love to hear it from a pro’s perspective.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Wanna guess where the number 95 comes from?

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

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[deleted]

6 years ago (deleted Feb 19, 2021 3:53 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

So if you cant get 100% protection just do nothing at all or go for 70%?

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Other way round. When people's lives are on the line you'll grab for anything that helps, even if it's just a little.

6 years ago | Likes 59 Dislikes 1

Collated resource for diy masks with the source links within - https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

source- think one of the studies I saw was done by PHE, have a google along those lines. Was quite interesting!

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Check this out, data driven reasons everyone should be wearing masks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoDwXwZXsDI

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

"When people’s lives are on the line, you better be 100%"- it would be nice for everyone to be walking around in HAZMAT suits but it doesnt>

6 years ago | Likes 27 Dislikes 1

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[deleted]

6 years ago (deleted Feb 19, 2021 3:54 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

that was my point. The previous guy said "you better be 100%". HAZMAT would be 100% but in reality, PPE is proportional to the risk, so mask

6 years ago | Likes 19 Dislikes 0

work that way.

6 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 0

Because the virus isn't floating around freeform, it's in fluid droplets of spittle or phlegm or perhaps blood.

6 years ago | Likes 21 Dislikes 4

WHO says it could be in certain conditions & are already considering upping to airborne precautions for everyone

6 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 2

1) In the condition where a procedure being performed causes aerosolization, possibly. "so far ... we are confident that the guidance

6 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

2) "that we have is appropriate." WHO errs on the side of caution, which is their purpose.

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

When this is all over lawyers are going to be foaming at the mouth to go after pieces of shit like that

6 years ago | Likes 1754 Dislikes 10

I’ll be going after them too.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yes they will! My teachers have all been telling me how much insane litigation is going to come from this

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

They are reusing them, which violates patient and worker safety. Them not enforcing best practice rules would let them be sued. Just

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Because you are too ignorant to understand why a rule.is out in place doesn't mean you are right.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You or a loved one may be entitled to compensation!

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Probably. Most likely not.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

They already are running ads for the elderly literally abandoned in care facilities.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The legal problem is nurses that bring in unapproved equipment are a legal liability.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Guys not doing it to be shitty in this instance. It’s a rationing thing. These are masks hospitals use very rarely and just can’t get enough

6 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 3

Not just this. I have 2 friends who are doctors in NHS. Up untill last week they were told not to wear masks. Maybe to not insight fear?

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Or to save masks for when things get worse and are they are more important. Our hospital didn’t say anything and we had a lot of staff

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Wasting masks and if/when it get worse here we will be needing those masks

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Okay but it says they are using their personal masks not hospital provided ones, so how would that affect the hospital's supplies?

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

They are trying to save them for the higher risk personnel and patients. A standard mask is proper ppe for most situations according to cdc

6 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

Unfortunately by then quite a few of these nurses won't be anymore.

6 years ago | Likes 92 Dislikes 1

Yes but their families can settle (as sad and horrible as that is)

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

True. But litigation can only correct the mistakes of the past. I want them to get their comeuppance tomorrow but it won't be that way

6 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 0

Read the article! Kaiser said that's not the policy. There is no proof that picture is from the union. The protest is about lack of PPE

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

1/2 GF is a nurse at Adena in Chillicothe. Charge nurse told them same thing! She and colleges, made masks w vital filters & was told

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

They can’t wear them as long as there are paper yellow masks available. After those run out they can wear a two viral filters they made!

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

If you can still afford a lawyer by then.

6 years ago | Likes 261 Dislikes 4

But you Americans want to sacrifice some people for the economy?

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

If anyone of us survive

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Would be class action suits. Hundreds of millions for the law firm, pennies for the victims

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Class act lawsuit

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Taking hospitals to court over shit practice especially in times line this guarantees a payout. They’d be thrilled to do it.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

This is personal injury law. Most of my clients in that field work on contingency, so it is extremely affordable! This could be a class act.

6 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 0

Mostly it’s labor law. Separate attorney fee provision in addition to any jury award. Contingency fees only on settlement amounts

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I suppose, but I feel like this wouldn't be covered by workman's comp. insurance?

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Depends on the state’s laws, but that would also likely require an injury (not just fear of one). WC isn’t my practice, just adjacent

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Considering a lot of these cases would likely be guaranteed wins, I'd expect a lot of pro bono work.

6 years ago | Likes 156 Dislikes 0

And since they're nurses... maybe a little pro bono on the side.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Class actions, baby!

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Contingency fees, they get a cut of the award/settlement(30-50%). Most US labor laws also have an atty fee provision separate from the award

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

6 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 0

He meant to say class action. $33 for the nurse and $30 million for the lawyer.

6 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

Out of a $63m judgment? Or did you mean $3m for the nurses and $30m for the lawyers?

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You mean “owe nothing unless we win” cases

6 years ago | Likes 28 Dislikes 2

Yes, what's that called? Pro Chubo work?

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Contingency.

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

On-contingency

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Only in a healthcare system as broken as the US would nurses have to wear their own masks. Let alone have to justify wearing them

6 years ago | Likes 1336 Dislikes 60

I assure you, nothing will change after all of this.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 3

I hope huge liable civil lawsuit after this pandemic and put Kaiser out of business

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I work EMS in the US, most facilities if they threaten termination it is for NOT wearing the appropriate PPE.

6 years ago | Likes 63 Dislikes 1

This post is looking a lot like bullshit designed to ruffle feathers. And it worked.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Thats because in the US money is the only thing that has value and life doesn’t matter to the rich. Our president made that loud and clear.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 3

This isn't just a US thing dumbass. There is a global shortage.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 2

This post is not about the mask shortage, dumbass. It's about Kaiser not even allowing healthcare workers to use their own personal masks.

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

It's because they reuse them, and that violates both staff and patient safety protocols. If they allowed it, anyone who got sick could have

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

An incredibly easy to win lawsuit dumbass.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

come to the UK for a spell

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

This lack of ppe is going on all over the world right now. It’s not an America thing. Stop with the “only such a broken system” crap.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Although you have to admit, all pandemics aside, our hc system is pretty much shit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Yeah there's shortages of masks everywhere so not sure how that's unique to the US...

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Really? Every other country has hospitals threatening to fire workers for daring to wear their own masks? I didn't know that.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Though the US health system is busted I don't think this particular situation is unique to the US. The world is struggling to get PPE.

6 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 2

From my front line perspective it feels like this was all just so unanticipated NOBODY thought to or had time to stock up on PPE.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Thank you for being on the front line!!! You are appreciated!

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

What are some other countries where a corporation is banning healthcare professionals from using THEIR OWN PPE under threat of firing?

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I mean I'm not saying that is happening or saying that I'm an expert (I'm not), I'm simply saying that other countries are struggling too.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Same here in the UK. Been buying scrubs and PPE for medic family from my own money to try keep them safe.

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

In Sweden there’s such a shortage that private persons have donated masks to hospitals and doctors have to make some protection equipment

6 years ago | Likes 30 Dislikes 0

Yeah, people here just like complaining about US healthcare. Big thumbs up for private citizens of all countries pitching in though!

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

You speak as if US healthcare were not the most predatory fiscal trap after student loans.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It's only that way because the government got involved back during the time of Nixon

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

That's the opposite of what happened. Nixon took government out of it. To allow hospitals to be for-profit.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

on their own.

6 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

As a eastern european and the husband of a medic, US has it's issues for sure, but in this case most countries lack proper equipment.

6 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 3

It's one thing to have shortages, its another to actually punish people for using their own PPE

6 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

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[deleted]

6 years ago (deleted Apr 5, 2020 2:40 PM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

Also worth noting that the hospitals doing this aren’t across the board, but those from this one company in California locations.

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Which, BTW, tends to stray far to the left of average American politics on their policies and regulation.

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Shhhhhhhhh. Anything critical of the US is gospel and shouldn’t be questioned here.

6 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 13

Shhh, America is perfect in literally every way and thus has no room for improvement in any way. Amy critics are traitors or communists.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 7

Did not say that. But the rapple rapple based off reactions to a twitter post is absurd. And the statement here is patently false (1)

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

(2)and your attempt to defend a factually and logically indefensible statement with “Well you might think the US is perfect” is disgusting

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

6 years ago | Likes 135 Dislikes 7

6 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 1

Except it won’t kill the shareholders. “I’m too rich, and your survival will hurt my year end dividends. Please die quietly”

6 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

v

6 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 0

There are shortages in many places. Source for Poland: google "w szpitalach brakuje masek" and you'll get many articles talking about it.1/2

6 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 1

People keep making this same mistake. This is not about the shortage. It's about a corporation barring use of your own masks.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I did not reply to the post. I replied to a specific comment which was basically "the hospital and/or the government should provide masks".

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

So yes, your healthcare system is bad, but no, this is not one of the symptoms. 2/2

6 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 2

Why isn’t it one of the symptoms? Just because other systems have it too? Maybe they’re all bad?

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

"Hey I found one similarity in these two things. That means both are shit and utterly broken!" Try reading the post and comment thread again

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Wow ok. That’s not what I was saying either. Your comment is also no help whatsoever.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I was just querying one aspect of the commenter’s logic that a lack of PPE is not a symptom of a bad healthcare system. Why can’t it be?

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

So apparently every country with sig. infection is broken because the US is far from unique in having mask shortages.

6 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 3

I love your country but your healthcare system is abhorrent in my eyes.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

But hey, post critical of the US on Imgur = automatic mass upvotes, reality be damned.

6 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 4

Try reading the last sentence again, there is a clue in there.

6 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

What clue? Where again you attempted to generalize an isolated event? Your head might explode when you hear it happened in Cali, (1)

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

(2), whose political policies and regulations run far to the left of typical America, with the blessing of a union representing the workers

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Will one of you motherfuckers explain to me how you're getting "mask shortage" out of this when it's clearly about the corporate power? /1

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

This post is about a corporation telling health professionals that they cannot even wear THEIR OWN MASKS. /2

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

This is not about the availability of masks. This is about a corporation sacrificing human lives based on incomplete information. /3

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

So tell me why DOZENS of you are ignoring that and jumping all over the mask shortage angle. /4

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Not just their own masks, but facilities have told them to wear bandannas if no ppe available.

6 years ago | Likes 153 Dislikes 5

Simple. Wear the n95 mask then a bandana over it, to conceal the “actual” mask.

6 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 2

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Despite the fact that the idea should not even be needed, I like your thinking.

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I don't think the later part is wrong.. sure It's not the best protection, but advising them to wear SOMETHING when nothing is available >

6 years ago | Likes 25 Dislikes 0

I think it’s the fact that nothing is available is the problem. They shouldn’t have to work without proper PPE

6 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 2

Course not, but you can hardly ask a virus to just be polite about the whole business and take it easy.

6 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Be at prices the hospital want to pay, but that shouldn’t matter

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

The hospital has a (legal) responsibility to protect its workers from risk/harm. If workers can buy it the PPE is available, it might not 1/

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

> surely isn't bad behaviour.

6 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 1

It is because they’re lulled I to a false sense of security/proximity with the PPE equivalent of a placebo

6 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Trust me. There's not a single healthcare worker lulled into a false sense of security wearing a bandana instead of a mask or N95. Not one.

6 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0