301 kills _on behalf of WWII Germany_. Maybe now isn't the best time to go "ha ha, isn't he funny"?
I'm not saying people can't be complex, and that soldiers on the wrong side of history can't have at least some redeeming qualities. I'm just saying that _right now_ might be a particularly bad time to appreciate the "fun side" of the second most lethal Nazi combat pilot....
Less fun tidbit: There was a weird trend of German ace pilots flying very dangerous western jets after the war. Erich Hartmann, the #1 Ace mention here, was forced to retire because he fiercly opposed adopting the American F-104 for the new Luftwaffe due to safety concerns.
1/3 of the damned things crashed over the years, killing over 100 German pilots. Lockheed was exposed bribing military officals to buy them, classy.
Most of the blame is on the Luftwaffe that used a plane outside it's fly envelop design. Add to that the fact that the F-104 was notoriously hard to fly and not forgiving at all, it's a perfect recipe for disaster.
He knew it was a plane unfit for the job and voiced it loudly, but money talks louder than one of the most experianced pilots of the time and THE most successful ace ever.
This is often cited, but incorrect. LW acquired F-104 way too fast for what the infrastructure could support in the early 60s. This resulted in tons of aircraft just sitting outside in the elements deteriorating. The resulting wear would exacerbate other issues with the aircraft, leading to 1/3rd loss rate.
Other famous issues lie with the auto pitch control triggering a forced pitch that would send you down fast.
I doubt it reached M2 at low altitude, but yeah, I figure they tried to do the kind of high speed penetration ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) that other planes with better avionics would do later.
Don't forget the drag from the bombs (more accurately the extra AoA). File under "physically possible but useless" so I doubt they were trying bomb runs as M2.
BTW, I remember reading that in Afghanistan the roar of a low flying B-1B was enough to make the home team flee.
If I remember correctly, the Germans wanted to use it as a ground attacker as well (not really suited for a Mach 2 interceptor), and pilots had to train for this, which is where the high rate of accidents and crashes come from
From what I recall, German works the other way around, like French. For example, "un stelo blu" is literally "a pencil blue" but when translated is "a blue pencil"
What? No! That would be ridiculous! Germans don't have time for that kind of shenanigans. But... If he crashed 20 more, he would say "Drei hundert zwei und zwanzig"
Probably thinking because numbers below 100 the ordering is the other way? Like drei und zwanzig for 32, so if you didn't learn to count higher you'd logically think it was the same way in the hundreds, but it's not.
Which is a bit like assuming that in English you say "one-tweenty, two-tweenty, three-tweenty…" instead of "twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-three…"; just because you say "seven-teen, eight-teen, nine-teen…" rather than "ten-seven, ten-eight, ten-nine…"
Yes, which would ironically make more sense. But in the German example I think it makes counting easier once past 100. Hard to say for sure since if that was normal people would be used to it, but smaller number first after 100 seems like it'd cause confusion. People sometimes shorten 100 from einhundert to hundert, then 123 becomes hundert drei und zwanzig, but if flipped the other way it'd be drei und zwanzig hundert, which sounds like 2300 (which you can say in Danish, not sure about German)
Of course, including ein in einhundert as it should be there wouldn't be confusion, so people would probably just adapt to saying that and it could work either way (drei und zwanzig einhundert). Anyway, my point is I can see how people learning a language might get confused that the rule gets flipped, even if happens in other languages. Also I'm not native German, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.
So we're just... allowing AI altered art now? I thought we were, collectively against this, unless this is some stupid fucking AI style filter that isn't actually an AI image.
HorseonaBike
'Yes. Ha ha time is over now. Back to work.'
pierceeze
Drei hunert und slay queen
secularink
lol
sochilln
das tötet das Flugzeug!
"This kills the plane"
Fjorkvar
I like how they call it a high score like it's a video game
CrabbyBlueberry
How many Germans does it take to change a lightbulb? One, because Germans are efficient and not very funny.
JoylessGreyhound
Just about everybody, i think.
nimeton0
TheRealDude19047
He and his wife died same year in a car crash
Feanordidnothingwrong3000
Peak German comedy
newnhb
twisti
I want to get this, use it at work, and watch my boss agonize over telling me to take it home and proving me right.
Lassannn
Ha ha! Ja ja! Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften!
baconandmorebacon
Vollziehe den Geschlechtsverkehr mit dir selbst, Lassann!
Lassannn
Don't mind if I do!
2Soon4Baboon
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1YTI0aHR3ZWFlYWZ6Mzl0cTVoc3Voem11M2drZno4NXY5czgxdm00YSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/uQHtUvva9Qljy/200w.webp
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
Tigersterne
My grandfather died at Auschwitz. Tripped and fell out of a guard tower.
punderstorm
I find this horrible, my grandfather survived auschwits. But most of the guards did
AllMaktAtTengilVarBefriare
Damn it, 15 min too late to say it myself.
DocTanner
301 kills _on behalf of WWII Germany_. Maybe now isn't the best time to go "ha ha, isn't he funny"?
I'm not saying people can't be complex, and that soldiers on the wrong side of history can't have at least some redeeming qualities. I'm just saying that _right now_ might be a particularly bad time to appreciate the "fun side" of the second most lethal Nazi combat pilot....
[deleted]
[deleted]
DocTanner
That's the "just following orders" defense. If you fight on the side of the Nazis, you don't really get to call yourself not a Nazi.
I'm not saying there can't be nuance. But... this dude shot down 301 Allied aircraft in defense of Hitler's regime.
CatHateDogDogLoveCat
Agreed. I was like "301 planes from where?"
Icanhearwhatyouresayingandtheanswerisno
Soviet Union.
AllMaktAtTengilVarBefriare
Laughing at a joke said by a dead man half a century ago does not impact current events in any way. Chill out.
DocTanner
I dunno, man. I feel like "haha, funny Nazi" has some current-day relevance.
AllMaktAtTengilVarBefriare
Then you feel wrong.
AllMaktAtTengilVarBefriare
Less fun tidbit: There was a weird trend of German ace pilots flying very dangerous western jets after the war. Erich Hartmann, the #1 Ace mention here, was forced to retire because he fiercly opposed adopting the American F-104 for the new Luftwaffe due to safety concerns.
1/3 of the damned things crashed over the years, killing over 100 German pilots. Lockheed was exposed bribing military officals to buy them, classy.
GordonFreeman59
Most of the blame is on the Luftwaffe that used a plane outside it's fly envelop design. Add to that the fact that the F-104 was notoriously hard to fly and not forgiving at all, it's a perfect recipe for disaster.
julesOf
Its the hardest aircraft to fly. Only 2 currently left in operation, and they still rip harder than F-16s.
somnif
They stopped losing quite so many after Johannes Steinhoff grounded them all and forced the pilots into intensive training.
avastmehearty
So that is why they have an F104 on static display inside the Deutsches Museum!
outremer01
How do you get an F-104? Buy a field in Germany and wait. (Old German proverb).
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
For a while, the greatest distributor of MiG parts in Vietnam was McDonnell Douglas, through their F-4 Phantom II.
stonetemplefox05
Well it's a good thing they were brought to justice and put out of business!
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
You don't take down a strategic company - you reform it to toe the line. And in this case there was no harm to American interests.
faithydiesalot
Not only the US had a mutual dependency with Lockheed, but also it's not up to them. West Germany was the one that got shafted - it was up to them to investigate and penalize (and they did: https://time.com/archive/6851515/scandals-lockheeds-defiance-a-right-to-bribe)
ArkoneAxon
Indeed! Just like with Volkswaggon. Or so many other corporations on both sides of the conflict...
Santac99
This is after the war where they are bribing and caused 100 deaths.
Panzerkeks85
Well, the Germans liked to fly that high altitude interceptor as a figher-bomber. At treetop levels. At Mach 2.
AllMaktAtTengilVarBefriare
He knew it was a plane unfit for the job and voiced it loudly, but money talks louder than one of the most experianced pilots of the time and THE most successful ace ever.
Turns out he was right, who would've guessed?
julesOf
This is often cited, but incorrect. LW acquired F-104 way too fast for what the infrastructure could support in the early 60s. This resulted in tons of aircraft just sitting outside in the elements deteriorating. The resulting wear would exacerbate other issues with the aircraft, leading to 1/3rd loss rate.
Other famous issues lie with the auto pitch control triggering a forced pitch that would send you down fast.
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
I doubt it reached M2 at low altitude, but yeah, I figure they tried to do the kind of high speed penetration ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) that other planes with better avionics would do later.
julesOf
You'd be out of JP-4 in minutes at sea level. M2.2 is possible above 30000ft
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
Don't forget the drag from the bombs (more accurately the extra AoA). File under "physically possible but useless" so I doubt they were trying bomb runs as M2.
BTW, I remember reading that in Afghanistan the roar of a low flying B-1B was enough to make the home team flee.
julesOf
I'd absolutely believe that. Same for a B52 in low
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
Did they have a worse safety record than the USAF?
TGPRax
21 USAF pilots died because of the ejection seat design alone. It fired downwards, making it unusable at low altitudes.
julesOf
That's the C2. The Martin Baker mk 7 is fine. Just remember "seat hot" once you enter the runway.
julesOf
Correction: C-1. The C-2 system goes upwards already.
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
Ah, but I'm talking about the crashes. I remember reading that the Germans dubbed it a widowmaker.
michiyl
If I remember correctly, the Germans wanted to use it as a ground attacker as well (not really suited for a Mach 2 interceptor), and pilots had to train for this, which is where the high rate of accidents and crashes come from
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
That's exactly what I wondered, if they were flying it differently. It's a crewed missile with stubby wings, meant to get to target _fast_.
themigbro
It was a flying pencil.
DirkOrion
Wouldn't he have said, "Zwei und drei hundert"?
RPCharImages
From what I recall, German works the other way around, like French. For example, "un stelo blu" is literally "a pencil blue" but when translated is "a blue pencil"
baconandmorebacon
What? No! That would be ridiculous! Germans don't have time for that kind of shenanigans. But... If he crashed 20 more, he would say "Drei hundert zwei und zwanzig"
CrocodileGandhi
You can say that, but I think most would interpret ist as "200 and 300"
vanillax
nope. actually he would have said dreihundertzwei (threehundredtwo).
AllHailTechnoViking
Unless he wanted to specifically emphasize the 2.
PalaverQuader
dreihundert und zwei is totally fine aswell.
spookymormonhelldream
Stimmt
MediocreExtremist
huh? no. why?
Skyff
Probably thinking because numbers below 100 the ordering is the other way? Like drei und zwanzig for 32, so if you didn't learn to count higher you'd logically think it was the same way in the hundreds, but it's not.
PlatteRatte
You meant to write 23 right? 32 is “Zwei und Dreisig” = two and thirty
Skyff
Yes, it was a typo :)
NoNameFred
Which is a bit like assuming that in English you say "one-tweenty, two-tweenty, three-tweenty…" instead of "twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-three…"; just because you say "seven-teen, eight-teen, nine-teen…" rather than "ten-seven, ten-eight, ten-nine…"
Skyff
Yes, which would ironically make more sense. But in the German example I think it makes counting easier once past 100. Hard to say for sure since if that was normal people would be used to it, but smaller number first after 100 seems like it'd cause confusion. People sometimes shorten 100 from einhundert to hundert, then 123 becomes hundert drei und zwanzig, but if flipped the other way it'd be drei und zwanzig hundert, which sounds like 2300 (which you can say in Danish, not sure about German)
Skyff
Of course, including ein in einhundert as it should be there wouldn't be confusion, so people would probably just adapt to saying that and it could work either way (drei und zwanzig einhundert). Anyway, my point is I can see how people learning a language might get confused that the rule gets flipped, even if happens in other languages. Also I'm not native German, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.
CgnCalling
Ja ja, Same Same. (Dreiundzwanzig hundert is 2300)
ZircZZ
Drei und zwanzig is 23 in German.
Skyff
Typo!
EMHPicardo
wabitgirl
So we're just... allowing AI altered art now? I thought we were, collectively against this, unless this is some stupid fucking AI style filter that isn't actually an AI image.
AdventurousDonut480
*laughs in German bureaucracy*
glovelyday
One stop shopping.
Bunnies007
"Everyone laughed when I said I wanted to be a comedian. Well, they're not laughing now."
burnsep
I like that "firearms" has a little "praxis" sign attached
Fn0rd
It looks like it and I‘d prefer that, but it’s a sign on top of a bike rack on the sidewalk, that’s mostly covered by the wall mounted Weapons sign.
burnsep
I do appreciate the added context and effort, and don’t want to stereotype, buut that was the most German way you could have interacted with my post.
Fn0rd
Oh I absolutely did, didn‘t I? It was a pleasure though, so no worries! Stereotypes have to come from somewhere, don’t you think?
burnsep
An absolute delight. Thank you.
Fn0rd
Source: I know the address. Here are the signs and the little bike rack.
Fn0rd
/a/AL2Xa2Z