Do they use a GPS or a magnetic compass? Would seem a gps is going to show the same spot all the time because otherwise the rest of our global navigation systems are gonna shift too.
So is there a map recording of the different positions? Like those pictures where they map the movement over the sun and moon against the earth movement in the sky?
I went to try to find this, then I realized that the map is the marker in the same place every year, at 180 south exactly. I suppose there could be tracks showing the drift of each marker, though they're probably all pretty much the same, all overlapping, because glaciers don't typically change direction.
In case you were wondering why they don't just dig down to ground level and fix the marker more permanently (ignoring the other technical problems that would pose), it's because the ice at the South pole is about 1.7 miles thick, meaning that although the landmass there sits almost at sea level, the South pole station sits at an elevation of 9000 feet.
Yeah, that was the "ignoring the other technical problems" part. Technically, if you heated the pole the entire way down you could melt the ice as it moved, creating a small chasm that grows every year.
There are places on the continent where the ice sheet gets as high as 4000m above sea level, and it's pretty flat. There are a few mountains that are taller and they tend to be exposed somewhat. The rock at South Pole is about at sea level, but the glacier drifts from Dome A toward the Weddell Sea
Most. There are three large ice shelves (Ross, Weddell, and Ronnie) that have water underneath, but the rest is land. There's a few spots on the land that have no ice over them (Dry Valleys year round, and much of the costal mountains and islands during the summer)
Related fun fact - much of Antarctica could be considered a series of "islands", in that there's a bunch of below-sea-level land with water above it. However the water is the quite-thick ice which tops out well above sea level. So whether or not you consider the bulk of Antarctica to be one big land mass vs a series of islands depends on how you define "island".
East Antarctica is a continental landmass. West Antarctica is more of an Archipelago linked by ice. The South Pole is located in East Antarctica (as divided by the Transantarctic Mountains)
Yep. The ice moves relative to the geographic south pole, and relative to the land beneath the ice. The land itself is moving relative to the geographic south pole actually - about 1 cm per year. GPS measures the geographic south pole.
Doesn't the geographic south pole move as well? Because Earth's rotation axis shifts and stuff like that. I thought that was the primary reason for them to move the marker.
Yes actually - there's the Chandler wobble, which The earth does wobble some (the movement of the pole you're talking about) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_wobble. Guess I'm not intimate enough to know how that works for GPS - e.g. does GPS (and thus the south pole marker movement) follow it or not. That is indeed faster than the tectonic plate movement, though slower than the ice movement; so the ice movement is still the main thing.
Yeah, I know about the Chandler wobble because I looked it up after writing that message lol. But yeah, it seems like the major thing is the ice sliding. (Plus that Chandler thing is periodic and revolves around a fixed point with a period of about a year, so I guess it can be neglected in practice.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_motion So apparently that's a thing as well, but aside from two cyclic motions with a period of about a year (so they revolve around the same point and can be ignored), the "slow drift" is only like 20 m in the past 125 years, or about one banana per year.
I guess the raw materials are imported, but do they have like foundries, industrial metal workshops, etc? Or just small workshops? I don't know how industrialized is Antarctica. I know you guys have internet but that's about it.
Stock metals, etc. are brought in from off continent. Once per year, a vessel arrives at McMurdo with just about all the supplies we'll need for the year, and all of our waste is shipped off. A comparitively small amount of cargo also arrives via plane in a more timely fashion (like fresh produce, personnel, emergency supplies, etc.). There are three missions each summer to drive supplies (mainly fuel) overland to South Pole. The logistics of the continent are sorta insane
So the McMurdo base (that's where you're at, right?) acts as the main delivery hub for the whole continent? Or only a bunch of bases, including the one at the south pole?
Yes. I'm at McMurdo rn. This is the hub for the US program as well as a few other programs, and for operations in West Antarctica, as well as the South Pole and various field camps around the continent. US's Palmer station on the peninsula is supported differently tho, as it is accessed via the drake passage from South America, whereas we are accessed from New Zealand. Other programs and tourist operations access the continent from South Africa, and Tasmania Australia
Hell, 150 years ago, traveling was not safe even on common busy routes. It was always risky. More than 5% of all traveling people died during the voyage. Would you take the risk of 1:20?
It's a work of art made by the station staff as a commemoration of the previous winter. Each winter the station holds a contest to design the next marker. The winning design is made by the station machinist
In the 1950s, Convair sent my grandad to TCU, in Fort Worth, to learn how to use computers(he was a tool design engineer). It was the IBM-650, it used transistors instead of vacuum tubes. Still not small by today's standards.
PutItInNeutral
I learned all this from @VosperOfAntarctica . They want to maxhine one of these officially some day soon.
Level21Magikarp
TheFastpaws
Neat
VosperOfAntarctica
Source: Matty K Jordan https://www.instagram.com/mattykjordan/reel/DSQTvCxEnev/?hl=en
Bgone
Who the hell is going to the south Pole to read that sign?
VosperOfAntarctica
me
huffnpuff72
Do they use a GPS or a magnetic compass? Would seem a gps is going to show the same spot all the time because otherwise the rest of our global navigation systems are gonna shift too.
CorgisButtsDriveMeNuts
Nice!
Kaze54
Notice, they say geographic south pole. Not magnetic south pole.
michelVizsla
More of this happy News please
WhiteRhino723
So is there a map recording of the different positions? Like those pictures where they map the movement over the sun and moon against the earth movement in the sky?
jridley
I went to try to find this, then I realized that the map is the marker in the same place every year, at 180 south exactly. I suppose there could be tracks showing the drift of each marker, though they're probably all pretty much the same, all overlapping, because glaciers don't typically change direction.
kindpanda
It would be a line of dots, each about 10m apart, in the direction of the drift terminating at 180°S...
cbale2000
In case you were wondering why they don't just dig down to ground level and fix the marker more permanently (ignoring the other technical problems that would pose), it's because the ice at the South pole is about 1.7 miles thick, meaning that although the landmass there sits almost at sea level, the South pole station sits at an elevation of 9000 feet.
modus0
Thickness of ice to have to dig/drill through aside, it would also press against the post as the ice moved, bending the entire post.
cbale2000
Yeah, that was the "ignoring the other technical problems" part.
Technically, if you heated the pole the entire way down you could melt the ice as it moved, creating a small chasm that grows every year.
do7rkb5n
I like that its marked on the map as a starfish.
petpet3d
It's meant to be a butthole
do7rkb5n
Yeah the chocolate starfish
WackyWavingFlailingArmTubeMan
How much of antartica is ice? How much is land
SpaghettiBowl
So much ice, that if it all melted, the world's ocean level would rise by about 70m or 230ft
YayItsMillerTime
At least half
AllTheGoodOnesWereGone
It's impressive that it can move as far as 10m in a year, considering there's a whole continent of land under there and it's relatively flat.
nefroye
The south pole is actually quite mountainous - specifically the Gamburtsev moutain range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamburtsev_Mountain_Range Though we don't really know much about it.
cousteau
How thick is the ice crust on top of that? Couple of miles?
VosperOfAntarctica
There are places on the continent where the ice sheet gets as high as 4000m above sea level, and it's pretty flat. There are a few mountains that are taller and they tend to be exposed somewhat. The rock at South Pole is about at sea level, but the glacier drifts from Dome A toward the Weddell Sea
cousteau
Nice! Thanks.
friendsofsandwiches
When the next time they go to move it, and there's no ice there...
anteyeclimbaxe
They're living out there, so they'd likely notice as it happens.
Addmagnet
There is rock below (some) of the ice.
VosperOfAntarctica
Most. There are three large ice shelves (Ross, Weddell, and Ronnie) that have water underneath, but the rest is land. There's a few spots on the land that have no ice over them (Dry Valleys year round, and much of the costal mountains and islands during the summer)
nefroye
Related fun fact - much of Antarctica could be considered a series of "islands", in that there's a bunch of below-sea-level land with water above it. However the water is the quite-thick ice which tops out well above sea level. So whether or not you consider the bulk of Antarctica to be one big land mass vs a series of islands depends on how you define "island".
VosperOfAntarctica
East Antarctica is a continental landmass. West Antarctica is more of an Archipelago linked by ice. The South Pole is located in East Antarctica (as divided by the Transantarctic Mountains)
abrazenfool
Then they won’t have keep moving it.
itsallaboutthecones
That's what you call "optimization", baby!
thegarts
So the ice moves which displaces the marker?
cbale2000
Yup
nefroye
Yep. The ice moves relative to the geographic south pole, and relative to the land beneath the ice. The land itself is moving relative to the geographic south pole actually - about 1 cm per year. GPS measures the geographic south pole.
cousteau
Doesn't the geographic south pole move as well? Because Earth's rotation axis shifts and stuff like that. I thought that was the primary reason for them to move the marker.
nefroye
Yes actually - there's the Chandler wobble, which The earth does wobble some (the movement of the pole you're talking about) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_wobble. Guess I'm not intimate enough to know how that works for GPS - e.g. does GPS (and thus the south pole marker movement) follow it or not. That is indeed faster than the tectonic plate movement, though slower than the ice movement; so the ice movement is still the main thing.
cousteau
Yeah, I know about the Chandler wobble because I looked it up after writing that message lol. But yeah, it seems like the major thing is the ice sliding. (Plus that Chandler thing is periodic and revolves around a fixed point with a period of about a year, so I guess it can be neglected in practice.)
cousteau
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_motion So apparently that's a thing as well, but aside from two cyclic motions with a period of about a year (so they revolve around the same point and can be ignored), the "slow drift" is only like 20 m in the past 125 years, or about one banana per year.
BlueSheep
Commandant Cousteau o7
cousteau
Had to look it up because frozen water is outside of my area of expertise.
cousteau
I thought they just moved it. Sounds cheaper than buying a new one each time.
Munchman347
I would guess there's not a lot of 'fun stuff' to do outside during the months of darkness...
VosperOfAntarctica
Not bought. It's made at the pole. Which probably makes it more expensive lol
cousteau
I guess the raw materials are imported, but do they have like foundries, industrial metal workshops, etc? Or just small workshops? I don't know how industrialized is Antarctica. I know you guys have internet but that's about it.
VosperOfAntarctica
Stock metals, etc. are brought in from off continent. Once per year, a vessel arrives at McMurdo with just about all the supplies we'll need for the year, and all of our waste is shipped off. A comparitively small amount of cargo also arrives via plane in a more timely fashion (like fresh produce, personnel, emergency supplies, etc.). There are three missions each summer to drive supplies (mainly fuel) overland to South Pole. The logistics of the continent are sorta insane
cousteau
So the McMurdo base (that's where you're at, right?) acts as the main delivery hub for the whole continent? Or only a bunch of bases, including the one at the south pole?
VosperOfAntarctica
Yes. I'm at McMurdo rn. This is the hub for the US program as well as a few other programs, and for operations in West Antarctica, as well as the South Pole and various field camps around the continent. US's Palmer station on the peninsula is supported differently tho, as it is accessed via the drake passage from South America, whereas we are accessed from New Zealand. Other programs and tourist operations access the continent from South Africa, and Tasmania Australia
BillHubbard
And then think about the first attempts to reach the geographical south Pole ended in failure and deaths. Nowadays it's a yearly event.
eathotdog
Kind of like a marathon
SergeyPrkl
Hell, 150 years ago, traveling was not safe even on common busy routes. It was always risky. More than 5% of all traveling people died during the voyage. Would you take the risk of 1:20?
mikecaa
The march of mankind.
tachyx
People still die climbing Mount Everest every year.
terajack2048
Probably a Starbucks there too
anteyeclimbaxe
Nowadays we're living right next door year round.
cousteau
Some person was the first to climb Mount Everest and now you have to wait in a queue.
Nathanyel
And it includes planned obsolescence! Seriously, why a new marker every year, instead of just moving it?
VosperOfAntarctica
It's a work of art made by the station staff as a commemoration of the previous winter. Each winter the station holds a contest to design the next marker. The winning design is made by the station machinist
WigglyBlondeNoodle
Like how the computer used to be floor to ceiling monstrosities but now your average smartphone has way more power than those.
PacManDreaming
In the 1950s, Convair sent my grandad to TCU, in Fort Worth, to learn how to use computers(he was a tool design engineer). It was the IBM-650, it used transistors instead of vacuum tubes. Still not small by today's standards.
chris16447
BerryButcher
Give or take couple hundred years it will be somewhere in middle of the city
CyberHexx
Gonna be tough to build an underwater city. Not impossible, mind you, but tough.
BillHubbard
The south pole is at an ice covered land mass. Unlike the north pole which is at a floating ice sheet.
CyberHexx
True. But how high is the actual land compared to how high the water will be when it all melts?
BillHubbard
I understand it's mountains.
BerryButcher
by modern tech sure, but we're talking 200 years or more
CyberHexx
You think the billionaires are going to spring for waterproofing on all the androids they want to replace us with?
LicensedAdHominem
Yes or else the human resistance would just hose them down.