ZiggyOne2
122383
916
30
A crazy induvidual killed several people in my home town yesterday, using a bow and arrow. We have strict gun laws in Norway, but the crazy will always find a way.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/world/europe/norway-bow-arrow-attack.html
Update: the message from the killer in 2017: http://imgur.com/gallery/f18g2Lx
dmhearne
Man...a bow is a powerful and scary thing. Basically silent and long range. Nothing to tell you which way to run
MystikWanks
Archery 100
dwa60x5
God fucking damnt that's crazy.
KapitanMarkovka
The man was mentally ill and known by the police. He was forbidden to contact his parents after threats against them, with a gun.
Death83
We need to stop comparing this with America. It's a tragedy, not a fucking contest.
Cuummiess
I was just about to comment the same thing.
eloquince
Ah, that's sad.
BobBFoot
But they have 75% off.../s
LurkingHusky
Imagine the destruction if he had a firearm
Someshithead241
Sounds like someone got a little too into Far Cry
ConfusedNorwegian
Have a friend who lives close to the crimescene. We panicked when we couldn't get in contact with him. Dude was playing Far cry 6.
ConfusedNorwegian
He later said he was outside and missed the attack by 7min.
InTangier
"B-but you see how gun control doesn't work?" "A horrifying crime with a killcount of 5"
CanadianMadCow
(Generic sad but would be worse in US comment)
pr3viso
Would have been more victims if he had an AR-15
TheDeceptiTom
A Man with a bow kills 5 in Norway and the Country locks down and mourns. In America, its just a Wednesday with a higher death toll
MerlotMission5291
Lower*
Nuclearwaste9
Chicago alone gets average of 15 to 20 gunshot murder victims every weekend!!!!
Murmull
Im in Norway, at work, the country is not locked down, maybe Kongsberg, but outside of gossip everything is business as usual.>>
Murmull
But yeah crazy people do crazy things especially when you add religion to the mix, let alone slack gun laws and guns per cap like in the us.
SeyFry
There are fewer people in Norway than Minesota (and 21 other US states). It's not fair for either USA or Norway to compare the two.
PectorialMuscles
An entire country hasn't had a violent crime with a death toll over 5 for a decade. That's certainly comparable to a single fucking day here
Maviyakuku
Not that it matters but a convert nonetheless
bikergeek6249
We need to talk about Kevin.
Ruprup
The comments here are a good way of showing just how many people on Imgur are American
Rasdwatrium
imagine if that guy had a gun.
shawnemack
5 dead is tragic but with the gun problem in America, it would have been many more dead and injured
kojenk
Worst in 10 years? Worst that hour in some US towns
PamfromTheOffice
It might be funny if it wasn't absolutely horrible ?
BlackJackBananaHamock
Bdbsh
Horrifying. One thing that caught my attention regarding the coverage by the NYT: They address far-right radicalization in their
Bdbsh
article quite a bit. The police stated in a press conference that this man supposedly converted to the Islam not long ago - are such acts
Bdbsh
counted as far-right violence in Norway when the suspect has an islamic background? I know this often is the case in German crime coverage.
mormacil
Attacking others on their religious believes is a right wing position, so if he did it to attack non-Muslims it's right wing violence.
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
Radical Islamism is a far-right position, but I've never heard or read Islamic terrorism being referred to as right-wing violence in Germany
BorkBorkasson
I haven't seen it referred to as far right here in Norway. However, he's been troubled his whole life and been known to police. The...
BorkBorkasson
...conversion is a recent thing. Most seem to think the attack was more an issue with his psychological state than religion.
Dhatudhatu
It depends really. It is considered terrorism if there's a political motivation or some such added to it. If killer had such views, then yes
Antrazit
I never shot bow and arrow, but I’m assuming you have to sneak up on people, right? If they see you with bow and arrow they can start
TitanTickler
Don't forget, bows were weapons of war for 1000s of years. They're very good at killing people.
BorkBorkasson
All five casualties was between the ages of 50 and 70. So they might not have been as quick either.
TheRearNakedGuy
With a strong bow those arrows can go FAST. Plus different arrow head tips
mormacil
You don't really outrun a bow, you can try and dodge but that's hard.
DangerTharp
You can easily outrun a bow, it's the arrows that is the hard part.
mormacil
I dunno, a longbow has a lot of range when you start next to the archer, that's like a solid 6 feet of wood.
Antrazit
Running and shit, that must make it really hard to kill someone with a bow
imnotthatblonde
Not really, any worthwhile target or hunting bow can easily kill with the right arrow, like clues in the name.. hunting bow
Dracalia
Depends on how good you are and how close and how big the target is.
Radix865
And whether they were trained in the prometheus school of running away from things.
sangman
Observe how everyone immediately makes this about America :/
imnotthatblonde
Problem is when events like that are once a decade... or less... its bad but hard to say much more since it such a rare event
FiftyShadesOfCauliflower
Because OP spouts gun nut rhetoric.Including the prompt bashing of a Holocaust victim group (mentally ill people) w/o knowing the motivation
falafelawful
Kevin?
ZiggyOne2
David?
strategykeeper00000
I got it.
Grenateh
Just a reminder: The entire population of Norway is less than our smaller metro areas in the US. If anyone at all dies, it's news.
edgareplekjekk
So?
TheMadOnion
Just a reminder population size doesn't matter per capita does when measuring crime. And America's is far higher than Norway's in this.
Eidodk
That has ABSOLUTELY nil to do with population. Stop making straw man arguments. Murders are news EVERYWHERE they don't happen frequently.
CyborgScribe
Murder barely make the news in some places tho. Certainly not national news. Their was what...15,000 murders in the US in 2018.
CyborgScribe
A lot of them are just a local piece and maybe a follow up if the killer gets caught.
Eidodk
Considering the US has 10 times the murder rate of Norway, that's not actually a surprise. Murder rate is number of murders per 100k people
jekath
One of ours, too. Im a Dane and it was one of us who did that. So sorry, Norway. We're ashamed and sorry. So terribly sorry.
mormacil
Does fit the historic pattern /s
Eidodk
Being born and raised in Norway, he's never been a dane, regardless of paperwork.
Eramik
Only on paper though. He was born and raised in Norway.
SedatedPossum
The perp/terrorist or whatever had lived in Norway for ages and was in obvious and dire need of mental health treatment. Not your fuck-up.
Petrojet
I find it so strange that you would apologise for something like that. It's nice I guess but very strange.
D1rtyh4rry666
How long till gun nuts use this as an argument for not controlling ar15’s?
?1
skaroreg
Too late
hopefullyclearthoughts
Now
HardTimeKillinFoulNews
"Guns don't kill people! Arrows do!" was how I imagined the argument would turn out.
Excludos
Immediately. Not even a second
SedatedPossum
Minus several hours, as this popped up in a chat I'm in around midnight yesterday.
DoAllOfTheDrugs
Firearm abuse is a mental health issue, not a control issue. We don't officially recognize mental health issues in this country.
DoAllOfTheDrugs
khora
A decade ago?
DangerTrain
You could burn toast and gun nuts would take it as an excuse to buy more "I feel like a big boy" toys.
TigerThong
already done, cause they are fucking muppets
blockedtrem
Yesterday on FB, actually
ObliqueRay
Ok, if it's the same, guess we should ban all the firearms and let them just have bows and arrows.
JustplainGross
It took Boebert all of what, 15 minutes to post something inane?
DatDarthCaedus
The r/news thread on Reddit was 10% serious posts, and then 50/50 jokes or "gotcha" posts about gun control not working (or mixes thereof).
livefreenburkhard
As a firearms enthusiast: there is no excuse for any loss of life. People are dead, and it's immoral to use murders to further an agenda.
CommodusLeitdorf
Have you not been paying attention to America the last 5 years? There is not such thing as Morals. Just victory and defeat.
livefreenburkhard
Though I agree, abandoning one's morals because others have abandoned theirs, makes for a terrible human being and worsening society.
livefreenburkhard
To be clear, using data over time on deaths can help provide insight for good regulation, but using an incident as a 'gotcha' is not right.
imnotthatblonde
unlikely this will actually lead to this where it happened, same as the most recent shooting in the uk has led to a similar discussion but/2
imnotthatblonde
for the many places this is a once in a decade event, not something thats bearly news cycles
Grenateh
Pistols are faster and easier to conceal. Stop making bad faith dumbass arguments.
Arcticstorm141
Bad faith dumbass arguments and the I'm smartest know it all is what imgur is about these days
tesseract4d2
Banning ar15s because they're used in shootings is like banning Honda civics because they're used in street racing. They're not particularly
D1rtyh4rry666
few hunters hunt with AR15’s…so leave the ammo out of it. The public has never/will never need a “civilian version” of a war fighting weapon
D1rtyh4rry666
You want long barrel guns to hunt? I’m all for it. You want a cheap, reliable, highly customizable, copy of a war fighting weapon? Why?
D1rtyh4rry666
But hey…I’m Canadian…had ar15’s here since the 70’s…and now we are moving to get rid of them. Why? Because they are for a hobby not hunting.
D1rtyh4rry666
There is no good reason, to own assault or war fighting weapons, or anything even close at home.
tesseract4d2
suited to the task, they're just cheap, reliable, and highly customizable. We need better gun control overall, bans on specific weapons are
tesseract4d2
Pointless. If you specify ar15s, I immediately know you're clueless about guns and have no good insight on gun control.
tesseract4d2
You know what's actually a dangerous gun? A .22 pistol with a silencer. Subsonic ammo is easily silenced, you could easily mistake the sound
tesseract4d2
for a BB gun if you hear it at all. A shot to the head with 22 at close range is extremely dangerous, it has enough energy to piece the
ZiggyOne2
The person that commited the crime has a history with the Police and mental illness. The converting to Islam has nothing to do with this.
phreak1986
BS, ofc is has something to do with it. Check his last statement before the killings
ZiggyOne2
Last statement, from 2017?
ZiggyOne2
This would have happened no mather religion.
PhoenixfireUK
True. religious zealots can be triggered by anything, whatever the religion itself happens to be.
TheMadOnion
I'm of the firm belief that religion is the cause of much of the world's crime and suffering. And I don't mean a religion I mean religion.
PhoenixfireUK
Totally agree. It sucks as a concept, no matter what the belief. People will always exploit it for their own ends. Always have.
madagascardio
Cannot rule out. How do you know for sure it’s nothing to do with his conversion? Good argument would be it’s possible.
ZiggyOne2
He is suffering from Schizophrenia, and has a restraining order after threatening to kill his father, been in jail for drug use.
ZiggyOne2
But yea, ofc it was the religion that did this.... and not the person he is.
madagascardio
It’s very sad. Hopefully lives would’ve been saved if there was a way to find his evil intentions.
Dhatudhatu
With his mental illness, a religion with as violent elements/history as Islam can absolutely be a contributing factor. One is not 1/2
Dhatudhatu
blaming Islam here, but understanding that it is one of several factors in affecting his decision making while being delusional 2/2
ZiggyOne2
But how is Islam history more violent then Christian?
JimAlexander
The sourcebook is a Great start if you want to know how.
ZiggyOne2
Nice. What it say?
pseudopseudonym
lol fuckin Christians... their book is all hippie peace and love shit and the main lesson they take from it is still 'kill the jews'.
CallsignFatNinja
Inb4 septics start shouting "see this is why we all need guns!"
Blamblam101
More shields!
BayazTheBenevolent
Obviously! If he got 5 kills with a bow and arrow imagine how much more effective he'd be with a gun.
turbodog
Tell me you’re Australian without saying cunt.
Ezekiel117
Yeah nah
CallsignFatNinja
I'm in fhacking Lhadhan you massive khant!
drizz1e
I wonder what the body count would be if he had an AR-15.
CallsignFatNinja
Probably terrible, the arrows would jam in the barrel.
neospor1n
Yea, those turds ruin everything
rebelcoil
Right to bear plate armour!
CallsignFatNinja
Right ti Bear-Plate armour!
BeneGesseritConspiracyTheorist
Sceptics?
CallsignFatNinja
Septic Tanks, Yanks, Americans.
TwoPumpTrump
FREEDOM.
lurkilydurkiler
If your septic is shouting you definitely need to have it serviced !
kojenk
Cockney Rhyming Slang?
ToSisPoS
Norwegian Throat Rhyming
DildoRodeo
Hey I know that girl.
mormacil
Isn't Norway in the top 3 guns per capita in Europe and in the top 10 of Western countries?
SedatedPossum
We're high in gun ownership, but you need a permit for every gun you buy. Police background check + a reason to get it.
SedatedPossum
And there are some limits to makes, models and magazine capacity. Valid reasons are mostly hunting and shooting sports.
edgareplekjekk
Something like that. But you need a licens. Almost no automatic guns though.
mormacil
Automatic guns are very rarely used in mass shootings in the US too
tlamstrike
In fact, there have been only two murders committed with automatic firearms since the NFA was enacted... both by police.
mormacil
The issue with the US is mental health(care), not access to automatic firearms. Sane people don't kill other humans.
edgareplekjekk
A quick look at google tells me you are right.
CallsignFatNinja
Yeah they have really good stats and safety. I wish other countries could be as responsible TBH
mormacil
Minor correction, Norway is 6th of Europe after Finland and Iceland. 12th of the West, so I was close but a little off.
CallsignFatNinja
I appreciate that you checked and followed up :)
u2braindead
No we don't all need guns, but shows that the root cause is the human not the inanimate object
CallsignFatNinja
It was a mistake to come down from the trees
Callito
I love that you realize that humans are dangerous and evil but still think it's a good idea to give everyone guns without much effort
Callito
But yeah at least Norwegians can be glad the guy didn't have a firearm. It would have been more than 5 deaths.
jfitz
And that the more dangerous something is the tighter it needs to be regulated. Can’t commit suicide with a bow and arrow.
Gerjager
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9539403/
schlummi
No one questioned that the root cause are humans. But without killing all humans you never can fix this cause completly. So it is about
schlummi
reducing the risk. With: free healthcare, free education - but also gun control. A bow needs more training and is less likely going to kill
schlummi
many people than a gun. Which also doesn't mean to ban all guns - but proper regulation.
u2braindead
basically, the hard road. gotta fix what is breaking people so that the pressure cooker of life stops exploding
apestapatas
No they need more good guys with bow and arrows…
RubWer
CallsignFatNinja
Eramik
Lovemorhatem
Why is it everyone's first instinct to take peoples death and use it for their political arguments.
LoudBirb
"Jim... should we maybe do something about the deadly spike pit at the entrance?" "Why's it always your first instinct to take someone's...
LoudBirb
Death and turn it into an argument, Bob?! Can't we just be sad for the person that died?!" "But... the spike pit'll kill more-" "Now's...
LoudBirb
Not the time, Bob!"
TheMadOnion
Outrage and genuine belief that thing should be better. Which directly leads to politics. Not really hard....
TheFirstFurst
Why is it that Conservative people never learn from people dying? Coronavirus, gun violence...
Lovemorhatem
Yeah uh, this has nothing to do with that. It's a foreign country.
TheFirstFurst
Fair enough, can't say I'm familiar enough with Norwegian politics to give an example of Conservatives failing to put 2 and 2 together there
Lovemorhatem
The more important point is that it's terrible that when someone is killed everyone's first instinct is to push their agenda.
DildoRodeo
I think that seeing someone die to a weapon is a good segue into a conversation about weapons and person deaths. Call me crazy.
CyborgScribe
Everything is political unless you live on a deserted island.
imnotthatblonde
Not sure what you would consider the righ time to ask this question is as it is asked regularly
Lovemorhatem
Sorry, not quite sure what you're asking here.
imnotthatblonde
Basically when is the right time for the people affected by this to ask if the current laws could have prevented this?
Lovemorhatem
Yeah uh, no one I'm talking to was affected by the bowman from norway, first of all, and secondly, probably after the dust settles.
confanity
Yes, it's not like *events* ever have any connection to *policy*, right?
Lovemorhatem
This event to any American policy? Highly doubtful.
confanity
If you think that gun-nuts won't seize on this as an excuse to push back against life-saving gun regulation, you're deluding yourself.
Lovemorhatem
If you think Americans care what happen in other countries, you're deluding yourself.
CallsignFatNinja
Actually I was making a satirical observation, I'm sorry you think everything is a political argument. I blame the liberal academics...
Lovemorhatem
What's the satire, exactly?
CallsignFatNinja
Satire, noun. "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices"
Lovemorhatem
Yeah, none of what you're saying changes the fact that you're using death to forward your own views.
CallsignFatNinja
That whenever there is a mass killing the Americans will typically react by calling for more weapons to defend themselves.
Lovemorhatem
Ah, so it is political, actually.