ArcaneConjecture
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Source: https://www.wallstreetdaily.com/charts/0715_HealthcareInsurance.png
Why do we continue to pay healthcare money to people who don't provide any healthcare? Other countries have much cheaper systems and they don't have overpaid CEOs.
Anonymous0199846
The profit motive, applied to healthcare, incentivizes treatment over cures, and so this otherwise good idea becomes a wellspring of evil
grid10ck
I used to work in the insurance business as a salesman. I can 100% agree with this. It's a cash grab for the CEO's, nothing more
IDidntKnowWhattoMakeMyUsernameSoIMadeThis
Well it'd also help if American corporation didn't feel like their #1 priority is their stockholders. Idk how to change it, but it's fuck up
MidiArbite
Stockholders are their bosses, so naturally they're the first priority, it's their facelessness that forces an assumption they're amoral.
IDidntKnowWhattoMakeMyUsernameSoIMadeThis
Well so long as a company has comfortable control over its shares, they don't need to bend to shareholders. And too many just sit on cash
tywa
Health insurance is regulated. Healthcare "reform" should start with healthcare. Hospitals/Drug Corporations are out of control.
jessabobessa
Agreed. All the hospitals in my area were bought by the same corporation. And now they're all horrible.
zackec
He doesn't deserve the last name Swedish! He brings skam on my country
NIPPLEHEAD69
The rapists in your country have already took care of that
zackec
Skam is shame in Swedish
SpikedSynapse
Finally a healthcare post i agree with
Beelsebooob
Actually, drugs companies too - drug costs in the US are *massive* compared to the EU.
IronyEnoughForTheIronClub
But we pay the insurance company first, so clearly they have all of our money and deserve all of our hate.
rando84
Part of the problem is high prices in the US subsidize low prices everywhere else.
Cthulhuonabike
I think certain industries shouldn't be for profit. When everything is just about money corruption is inevitable
DoublevBomb
We call that "America", as the value of the dollar (or just the possibility of making them) is much higher than the concern for lives.
Tyrant88
Then why would people enter the market? No company is going to want to lose money giving people health insurance. Be realistic
Voggix
That's why socialized healthcare is the answer
WallyWorldtoo
That's his point NO companies.
Cthulhuonabike
If only there were some way for insurance to be subsidized through the government, so it was more simple and accessible, and not a commodity
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Free market and competition stop being a good thing when those on the supply side "win" the competition by someone getting/remaining sick.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
But which "supply side" is actually winning if someone gets sick? Hospitals do well (probably, though there are some limitations), drug 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
But which "supply side" is actually winning if someone gets sick? Hospitals do well (probably, though there are some limitations), drug 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
companies definitely come out ahead, but that actually hurts insurance company profits. The sicker you are, the more they have to pay out /2
delpharseven
It is much more complicated than that: https://youtu.be/09RvU9_m30Q
TimtegrityGT
Wife making me watch some stupid movie. Putting dot here to come back and watch later.
BattloidKouji
Wow, that was very interesting. A great summary of the current state of healthcare in the US.
AlexDesilets
Hospitals should be government property, Doctors should be government employees. Healthcare is too important to be private.
n0n53n53
Have you seen how well out government employees do at running the country or educating the children? I'm sure they'll figure out HC tho
AlexDesilets
That's a fun joke. The reality of it is the country runs pretty damn well considering it's run by popularity contest.
subatomicmom
Healthcare is too important to be taken care of by U.S. govt employees.
WallyWorldtoo
The Government can only give the money to the hospitals, and doctors. and cuts out the inbetween expenses.
bagginsesvsskywalkers
Yeah, can you imagine the fights between reps and dems about medical standards? They can't even agree on abortions.
ColdHandsWarmHeart
Super Tramp reference. Duuuude. +1
gohanssj2
As a kid, this was my favorite song because they called him "a vegetable" and I had no idea that it meant anything other than carrots.
justaminutethere
A criminal.
BakeRatImgur
Every time I say "my ex-wife," it's a super tramp reference.
justaminutethere
A criminal.
beforeyouslipintounconsciousness
God I was so scared I missed the reference. I just forgot to read the title first.
Evern
Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable!
TheDarkNerd
Oh, take, take, take an upvote!
shortydontwait
*crazy ass sax solo*
eroso
US pays more taxes of non-universal healthcare than Europeans do of universal one. Too many leaches indeed
HitlaryClintonforprison
All thanks to the FDA and "lobbying", not bribing. Apparently its not the same eventhough both involve giving money for something in return
ChrisLucas1
Our Supreme Court was good enough to make bribery legal.
Artlau2014
Holy shit! We Norwegians are not the highest tax payers in the world?!
Cere4l
as a european, if our insurance ceos all drop dead im throwing a party too. they might be better than yours. but theyre still evil
BigSnicker
What I love about this chart is that, based on OECD average cost, the US gov't is ALREADY paying enough for free healthcare for everyone.
eroso
You could have also read what I wrote next to the link ;)
BigSnicker
lol.. true, but to be clear, US gov't spending is often more than European public AND private spending combined!
eroso
That just tells how little these corporations care if it's not their own money they are spending.
BigSnicker
Are you suggesting that free markets don't work well for healthcare??? /s
kevincow
Yeah. Unfortunately, those guys are legally allowed to bribe politicians, so they won't be abolished any time soon.
eroso
Vote Justice Democrats at 2018 to turn the tide. Their platform is about taking coporate power from politics.
SolidusPliskin
They just need a handfull of corporate donations to get their campaign rolling
eion85
Same argument won with federally backed student loans. Let's cut out the middleman and give more value to the consumer.
pwnz805
Can I have the source please?
IronyEnoughForTheIronClub
Wow, you guys downvote an innocent request for a citation? This toxic allergy to facts regarding insurance always leads to some fun posts.
HOLAKOOO
prolly downvoted because the source is in the post. chill the f out, dude.
pwnz805
That's the thing though it's actually not, the link leads to a photo of a line graph
pwnz805
With a watermark saying bigcharts.com
BojanglesTheFlyingCar
This sounds like the rant when a Doctor ranting why he needs IT and support when he built a network at his house and it's fine.
TemporaryUzername
THIS WEBSITE IS BROKEN, I LOOKED AT THE CSS FILE
BojanglesTheFlyingCar
theglimmeringwarlock
I'll tell you this as someone who worked for one of the biggest chicago hospitals. They care less about employees and more about themselves
Spark4492
UHC is a fucking crap company, granted I'm sure they all are. Fucking stealing benefits from their customers and giving them shit in return
n0n53n53
I've made a ton on their stock tho, so it can't all be bad.
jessabobessa
The process UHC puts doctors through to get paid is a fucking disgrace. And when they do, it's pennies on the dollar.
mkingi
I have UHC and chronically ill. They want to give me a fucking babysitter. That's right, they want to give me someone to "manage"...
mkingi
...my "case" and "help" mediate between me and doctors to "manage" my condition. It's a thinly veiled attempt to deny me coverage because...
mkingi
...my "case manager" would be able to deny my coverage for testing, appointments, and treatments. They hate that I'm using what I paid for.
Spark4492
YUPPPPPP I work in a nursing home and like yes. They drop people that like need the fucking care
becktionary
I have faith that the invisible hand will correct this by giving most of us Americans an invisible middle finger.
Strostkovy
I'm going to use this now.
flaccidhope
"The reason that the invisible hand often seems invisible is that it is often not there" -- Joseph Stiglitz.
RainbowUnicode
Right up the invisible pooper.
etagete
Certain services should not be a for profit industry. Police, firefighters, judicial system, and health insurance to name a few.
PeteTusk
Jails (oop$)...
thingamajig1987
Mandatory health insurance is definitely not the way to fix what's wrong with our health care...
PartyMarty92
They care about the amount of people covered more than the quality of healthcare.
eroso
Insurances are just a form of socialism "together we are stronger", so Europeans kinda pay for mandatory insurance too.
thingamajig1987
Mandated insurance I guess, then it just becomes who would you rather control everything, corporations or government?
eroso
They can coexist. Here the public sector competes with priv hospitals. If treatment costs 100€ at public, gov will pay 100€ of same care (+)
eroso
(+) If the treatment is done at private sector. This way private sector can't push the prices up unless ppl really want to pay for it.
WallyWorldtoo
So some get free healthcare, You can go to a hospital right. when needed, Get health care and declare bankruptcy.
WallyWorldtoo
Doesn't sound fair for others paying for you.If one does. Sounds like a fraud. Why have forced car insurance.
imonewiththeforceandtheforceiswithme
I agree. Healthcare certainly shouldn't be a for-profit industry.
squip
100% true. Health insurance companies bring absolutely nothing of value to the healthcare system. They're just a worthless middleman.
MidiArbite
If they really did only cover emergencies (Like every other type of insurance) they'd have their place paying high end surgeons.
WallyMLG
2) to ensure solvency and sufficient profit to justify running an insurance business. To dismiss all insurance is simply childish wishy 3)
WallyMLG
3)washy fanciful thinking. Altruism is irrational. Only by interlocked personal gain can society function.
Ichose2
SIngle payer would pool funds to guarantee coverage while spending most of it on outliers too. Insurers add no value, just red tape and cost
n0n53n53
And who would administer the single payer plans? The same government who just sold out our privacy for kickbacks?
WallyMLG
Health insurance pools funds from everyone to cover the emergencies of the few. They also build investment portfolios with your premiums 1)
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
...I can't tell- are you being serious or sarcastic?
WallyMLG
Being typical uninformed internet person who takes things at an emotional level.
squip
Irony lol
BigSnicker
No. No. No. Didn't you hear, they're the only thing saving us from the evils of socialist "government run" healthcare!! *giggles
flarflarf
Single payer. Simply extend Medicare to every American citizen.
n0n53n53
Do you know who administers Medicare? Private insurance companies. Do you know why? Because they know how, unlike the government.
isildur
Ah, so you'd be OK with Medicare being expanded to all, then.
flaccidhope
It's a good idea but I'm going to have to pick you up on the use of "simply".
flarflarf
what's the objection? cost, complexity or ______
isildur
It's the proposed system that's (comparatively) simple. The politics is, of course, impossible, right now (because of Republican opposition)
flarflarf
what's the objection? cost, complexity or ______
flaccidhope
A modest expansion of medicare was part of ACA. Democratic states did it, Republicans blocked it. It's an uphill struggle, not simple.
ChrisLucas1
Transitional step would be a public option, giving people the opportunity to buy into Medicaid.
BigSnicker
Exactly. Please get this done, @flarflarf.
flarflarf
Flarflarf 2020
AlrightIGiveIn
I need a shirt with this on it...
BigSnicker
You have NO idea how quickly we can get Imgur on board for that!
mineovermatter
You wanna "fix" US healthcare, revert the laws allowing stockholders in hospitals.
fiftyfourfourtysixwasmynumber
And insurance companies
Jophis
I disagree. Shifting hospitals to for profit doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Pattonias
Many already are
FragileReality
And then on-profit hospitals, like Catholic hospitals, skimp on the Care for women if it may harm a fetus.
FragileReality
Dang, non-profit*
Deaconse
That's for philosophical reasons, not because of the not-for-profit status. And Catholic hospitals are all not-for-profit.
JollyGreenAl
Get rid of preferred providers. Don't let medical suppliers get exclusivity then inflate prices. Stop hospitals inflating insurance prices
JollyGreenAl
compared to direct pay.
OneBeardOneNation
As someone that works in finance at a massive system. We have to price based on the lowest contractual reimbursement aka govt plans.(1)
OneBeardOneNation
We cant cherry pick patients or start changing charges based on your provider. Most Medicare plans I have seen reimburse at 8-15% of charges
Craftylefty47
If your "fix" is a single change, it's not a fix. There is no single option solution to this very large problem, it will take many changes.
youcantproveit
Don't let pharma companies advertise drugs to the masses, and let prescriptions be a Dr.'s Idea. "Sad sometimes? You need $12/day prozac!"
FlorbFnarb
So then we should end free speech? Are you afraid of patients taking an interest in their own medical needs?
youcantproveit
Pharma companies couldn't always advertise on TV. Alcohol and tobacco is regulated too. Companies don't have right to freedom of speech btw.
FlorbFnarb
Companies are just groups of people. Do people have to surrender their rights to engage in business?
youcantproveit
You clearly don't know anything about corporate law. Yes, companies are restricted in what they can advertise, and to what audiences.
MrPeebles
Don't forget Dr.s getting paid to push certain drugs as well.
youcantproveit
*Side effects include insomnia & ED. "Can't sleep? You need $11/day Ambien" "Dick broke? You need $60/pill viagra!" Or Dr says "It's normal"
youcantproveit
It's normal to be down sometimes. Life isn't a fuckin 24/7 party. People seek drugs b/c the commercial acts like it's not completely normal.
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Skywatcher16
big help would be making for profit health care illegal. just like the for profit prison thing. take the money out of it and many other 1/2
Skywatcher16
issues with the system will sort themselves out to a large degree if not completely.
Deaconse
I think the regulated public monopoly model might work, like for utility companies (like gas or electric). Modest profit, public oversight.
Skywatcher16
not a bad way to go either. simply cant be a 'free market' model. leaves too much room for the kinds of abuse we see today.
garrett53
Heh, American and their health insurance problems (EU citizen)
sonic745
Yes. (Canadian citizen)
edzo1121
what a cringe comment. Good for you pal.
eroso
Did you know that they pay even more of healtcare from their taxes than we do? It's not even universal and they pay insurances too.
garrett53
Well that's a scam.
NonGermanGerman
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RandomImgurian
And the settlers of North America murdered the local population by the millions but I don't see how either is relevant to this discussion.
PeteButtigieg
He was joking in bad taste. He was saying there's only healthy people in Europe because of the nazi's.
RandomImgurian
Well saying there are no sick people in europe today because a group of people killed a lot of them roughly seven decades ago just isn't-
RandomImgurian
-even vaguely close to how neither disease nor healthcare works.
garrett53
Why when someone says "Im from EU" you assume Nazi Germany?
Exo212
The EU has private health insurance conpanies too
eroso
garrett53
Sure, but entire EU has Universal health care.
AgolfHiller
Yes but they definitely don't overprice like the US does nor are they the only option
AwesomeName
...and their belief that letting people line their pockets at will solves all problems.
rando84
Like many aspects of US policy, the majority hate it but the system makes real change nearly impossible. Most of our cherished basic 1/2
rando84
social programs came from the 1940's and 1960's. 2/2
Sairvous
No thats just the American republican philosophy. I feel like I mostly see the ignorant and easily manipulated join/side with the party(1)
Sairvous
(5) automate you and your job they would throw you away like trash in a heart beat.
Sairvous
(4) keep creating jobs. When really the end goal of business men is to reduce jobs to a minimum while maximizing revenue. If they could
Sairvous
(3) citizens into voting against their own best interests. They convince the populace that as long as they keep getting money they will
Sairvous
(2) however at the head of the party there are masterminds pulling the strings. The republicans behind the curtain are the ones fooling
FyeBelicia
Last time I was in the EU and broke my arm I had to splint it myself and wait 8 days to get a cast. Im america, under an hour.
garrett53
Where the hell was that?
FyeBelicia
France
WallyWorldtoo
One time I was in the ER for 8 hours, next time in 3 hours. What's your point? Slow day happen in the US?
WallyWorldtoo
It's not like 2 standing waiting to do cases. You just got lucky.
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HEXADECIMAL
I'll give you a +1 bc I haven't been in a UK hospital and ppl are downvoting you.
ballbagmcginley
As opposed to clean hospitals just for wealthy people..
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AgolfHiller
Elaborate on that ER
HEXADECIMAL
Well, there is a huge problem with drug resistant staff. I know nurses who've lost eyes, fingers, skin all over their body.
TygrF
Right, it's not like running a multi-million dollar international company in a highly regulated industry is actually /difficult/.
TygrF
And it's not like investors should actually get /any/ sort of return.
carn37lake
I just don't get why people want the profit motive incorporated into their healthcare. Seems like a needless expense
TygrF
Would you work 80-100 hours a week saving people's lives if you weren't being generously compensated?
IGoInCanadaDry
And also at huge risk for lawsuit.
darkdragonempress
Except that's a doctor or nurse. Not anyone in the insurance industry.
carn37lake
Your blurring 2 seperate issues. You can compensate Dr's appropriately and not have "for profit" healthcare.
TygrF
There is no difference between "compensation" and "profit". Does the company that oversees the care not deserve "compensation" also?
ArcaneConjecture
We don't pay people because their job is difficult. We pay them because their job is useful. Health Insurance Companies do *nothing* useful.
IGoInCanadaDry
Health insurance companies do nothing useful? ...
daromander
Don't they, like, help people pay for health procedures?
GiantRobotsRule
Give me $100 a week and I'll "help you" pay for $90 worth of groceries. Am I doing something useful by "helping you" pay for food?
daromander
And then one week, I need $5000 dollars of groceries and you still help me pay even though I've really only given you $100 that week
GiantRobotsRule
That's priced in. You'll need 90 a week, on average, some weeks more, some less, but I'm still a middleman thats less efficient at risk pool
PeteTusk
Not when the procedures would cost less than health insurance if insurance didn't exist.
daromander
What happens when they cost more?
ArcaneConjecture
What happens if unicorns fly out of one's butt? They never cost more because of the need to pay for the Insurance Company middleman.
TygrF
Supply & demand is just lost on you? You pay people for difficult jobs, that not many people are capable of doing.
ArcaneConjecture
Farting rainbows is difficult. But that doesn't mean I'll pay you for it, because (like insurance companies) farting rainbows isn't useful.
TygrF
Didn't use to be that you HAD to pay someone to risk their money on your continued health. O-care took away the option of paying for
TygrF
catastrophic care & medical emergencies out-of-pocket, without a middle-man. Which, I agree with you, would be the better option.
PartyMarty92
It seems that a lot of people associate money with evil.
magnificent87liver
Are we not forced to buy insurance via the current government regulations? Therefore it is useful since we HAVE to do it...
ArcaneConjecture
We should change the current law to a system that has no wasteful, unnecessary insurance companies.
TygrF
Exactly - tax-free HSAs for day-to-day health expenses & insurance for major catastrophies.
ArcaneConjecture
Why should insurance CEOs get a cut of our hard earned dollars for "major catastrophies"? What have they done to earn it?
RaptorCav
Government, unnecessary and waste are synonyms. Trying to break them apart would require better people to be hired.
ArcaneConjecture
I call "bullshit". People say that the private sector is more efficient, but they can never produce any empirical data. It's a myth.
OSCgal
The problem is that insurance companies make a profit by *not paying out*. Which is fine for many things, but not health!
kiruwa
Oh boy... that 3% profit! Yeah... that's totally the problem with American Health Care.
ChrisLucas1
Also less efficient http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/
kiruwa
The comment on that link is very on-point, but also... 2011 is basically ancient history in terms of US health care.
ChrisLucas1
That's the most recent. But I very much doubt the private industry has undergone a shocking change since then...
kiruwa
There have been MASSIVE changes in the health insurance landscape since then, mostly due to the ACA.
sharshur
Exactly! The real death panels are insurance company claims offices.
callcenterslut
I can't stress this enough. My husband was offered a 50k a year job woth CVS...denying coverage. He prefers to be able to sleep at night.
conquistadorst
Yes and no. Short term yes, long term they always profit. The more the pay out, the more they will raise rates. The only way to kill (1)
conquistadorst
an insurance company is to kick them so hard with their pants down they can't get back up. Meaning, they paid out more in losses than (2)
conquistadorst
than they collected in premium, but also so disproportionately they lack the capital to survive long enough to get back on their feet (3)
conquistadorst
faster than going belly up. It usually takes a huge catastrophe of some kind, be it mother nature or human nature
conquistadorst
Catastrophes are especially dangerous if they're alone. Death spiral of having neither money nor ability to raise rates & losing customers
CongratsYouAreHereNow
here's the real problem... insurance is a shared risk. unless people pay into it, there is no money to pay out when someone breaks 1/2
CongratsYouAreHereNow
their neck. now, they do gouge prices and are bitches about paying out... but that doesn't make the nature of insurance evil
Josefbugman1543
It is if you are selling a necessary commodity.
CongratsYouAreHereNow
so grocery stores are inherently evil?
Josefbugman1543
No. But food should be made available to all people for minimum cost. Same as water.
igivetheinternets
Problem is the high cost procedures. Maybe we shpupd do "everything" to save someone's life. Economics is reality, not emotions
igivetheinternets
Should have been "shouldn't"
CongratsYouAreHereNow
ehhhh... it's easy to say when you're not the person on the table. a lot of hospital costs are locked up in the expenses of 1/2
CongratsYouAreHereNow
devices, equipment, electricity, sterilization, laundry, disposables like syringes, etc. R+D for life saving machines is high, the cost 2/3
CongratsYouAreHereNow
reflects all the expenses a medical equipment company has in getting the machine to the hospital. that is why shared risk is best 3/3
eroso
Yup. US taxpayers pay enough hc-taxes to have universal heathcare with current funds.
System is rigged.
boobs675309
Make your own post with that information. It's rarely mentioned and I think it needs to be seen by more people.
eroso
Feel free to copy that and post it urself.
boobs675309
I'm lazy :(
kiruwa
You're assuming a public version would be better, or even as good. The VA and medicare systems don't really square with that.
eroso
With the current system at US, the hospitals even benefit from not being effective at care. More treatments & more profits from insurances.
eroso
Yes. It cant get much worse than what it is now
All these example countries do it better with public & ½ cost
kiruwa
Sure, but it's well known that the US essentially subsidizes drug research.
eroso
That's a pretty insignificant factor. Research costs are ~2% of the entire budget on healthcare.
kiruwa
Once again, our systems that follow your proposal are the ones that drag our quality of care ratings down the worst.
kiruwa
Actually, according to your chart, several of those countries don't do it better than we do, although they do spend less.
eroso
With that spending, US should be #1 on everything except cost.
kiruwa
If the VA or medicare/aid systems were even remotely effective/efficient, you'd have a much stronger argument here.
eroso
Medicare is still far from public healthcare that EU has. The fact that "hospitals" pay their own bills make a huge difference to efficiency
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
Out of genuine curiosity- why do you say the system is "rigged?" Massively inefficient along a number of dimensions, sure, but rigged?
eroso
Rigged to benefit the shareholders by pushing the costs to extremes. Even the goverment supports and allows it to be like this.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
What do you mean by "pushes costs to the extreme?" I'm not trying to sound annoying, but I want to make sure I accurately understand what 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
arguments you're making (not trying to imply that your wording "as it is" is inaccurate or anything, I just want to make sure I'm getting 2/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
disproportionate share of costs? Do you mean costs for people? Health care providers? All of the above? 4/4
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
it). Do you mean that costs have risen extremely much? Do you mean that the extreme tails of the population distribution are covering a 3/
MrPeebles
And also rigged in that when ACA went into affect companies wanted no loss in profits, so prices jumped to compensate.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
But premiums had been jumping for a decade before the ACA was implemented. And there were several key aspects of the ACA that have been 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
undermined in other ways (key example: under-funding high risk state pools after GOP gained control of the House). Prices jumped at first 2/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
aren't a particularly moral bunch, but that isn't really evidence for "rigging." 6/6
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
rose after a major regulatory overhaul only shows a dynamic change. I agree that plenty of them rip off clients, and, as a bunch, they 5/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
some of the "bite" of the individual mandate was undermined by altered enforcement, state resistance, etc. The simple fact that prices 4/
MrPeebles
Not denying at all that there were many aspects that caused what happened, just saying ins companies weren't willing to take any losses.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
because those who were now getting coverage were the same people who had been kicked out of plans due to "pre existing conditions," and 3/
fadingtheory
In theory, allowing capitalism free reign in healthcare reduces cost through competition. But they don't really seem to be competing.
TheRelevancyOfMyNameIsRelativelyIrrelevant
the theory never works, ever, in any product or situation. In the end one product or company will gain an advantage over others and ...
TheRelevancyOfMyNameIsRelativelyIrrelevant
destroy all competition to maintain dominance. In a completely free market economy this happens again and again, our history shows it.
CigarsAndWhiskey
This principle only works in markets where demand is elastic and barriers to entry are low. Everybody needs healthcare, but not everyone
CigarsAndWhiskey
can start their own insurance underwriting company.
hobbitbandit
Because it's not free reign, it's regulated by ACA act.
KevinMenzel
Universal single payer was cheaper and better for decades, not just since the ACA.
ghettofish
Practical application of any of the theories and ideologies tend to not work as well as intended.
JD10001
Its worth pointing out that US Healthcare is government run. Doctors are regulated. Its the PAYING for healthcare that is free market.
aDefenseless9yearOldGirl
Almost like there isn't a free market in healthcare or something. Crazy
DafyddWillz
That's a very idealistic view of capitalism.
SoapyMammaryMasturbation
In theory a free market is great. Until you factor in the various shit unscrupulous bastards will get up to. That's why you gotta regulate.
justanexcitableboy
They would compete if the government didn't require them all to cover the same things the same ways
frostyfinger3776
Healthcare is inelastic, meaning you dont call around for prices when you have a medical emergency.
TitaniumTeddyBear
It's an inelastic market, so they have formed an informal oligopoly. Just like John Nash predicted in that bar scene in "A Beautiful Mind".
jonsnowkilledolly
That's because there isn't any. Like Cable companies, you have zones for certain providers. Take away red tape and insurance will go down.
mjtool
They're in a race to the top.
invisibulman
Free market principles on a public good is a failing proposition from the outset.
RNeao
Capitalism does a lot of stuff in theory.
Elroydb
They worked very hard to ensure they wouldn't have to compete
LonelyBrannigan
In practice, they all agree to fuck you
WalnutWisdom
You are thinking of monopolistic competition, but this is an oligopoly, so if 3 or 4 execs decide the raise the price together, they can
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
Well, under current laws, their profits are capped at a percentage of revenue. And in lots of states they need reg approval before price inc
Smilemoar
This would be the first time that companies in an industry carve out pieces for one another like cartels. Look at cable companies :/
Smilemoar
Oligopolies only have a few sellers, making each oligopolist likely to be aware of the actions of the others.
Smilemoar
Makes it harder for new players to enter the field and means that they able to collude as an industry easier.
DonkeyFartSuperPunch
I.e. In a free capitalist market.
D1RE
The problem with this idea is that the most effective way of running a business is through monopoly. It always ends that way.
gizmo123456789
THEORY
thisistheguy
The ironic thing is that "socialist" health care countries use competition to drive costs down
Candyman216
The local and state government's sanction local monopolies to keep costs up because of lobbying. Just like limited cable options etc
fiftyfourfourtysixwasmynumber
Because they don't have to. Just like cable. How in hell is this not an antitrust lawsuit?
poopymcpoopersonfucktard
without intense regulations will allow more companies to enter the playing field.
kiruwa
What we have now cannot possibly be called a capitalist market. None of the same actors are looking at cost/benefit at the same time.
getafterit
Lol!!!!! Yes capitalism works for all industries. Ok!! Lol #werefuckendoomed
Varenvel
Same as internet , now there is only 1 provider , it always turns into biggest fish
Unverified
Because they get to pick and choose what they cover
Shltles
Just remove capitalism and problem solved!
tzap
The whole "unrestricted markets always lead to best consumer outcome" theory is just flatout wrong, especially with healthcare and education
Nifty255
Digging back to 10th grade American history (so I may be wrong), but IIRC that is a trust and was made illegal. Might be bribing govt blind.
whereisdannymo
They're not innovating either
Kierbear2g
In practice that *absolutely does not happen*.
electronickss
No it doesn't. Explain to me how I'll shop around when I'm about to have a heart attack
Subsound
There's better competition in industries where the barriers of entry are low. When they are high it turns into an oligopoly
ArcaneConjecture
Your username is quite relevant to this comment, lol.
ThrowMamaFromTheTrain
There isn't a free market in healthcare.
JaredSnuts
It's a cartel
DragonLordG
Nice name
rmmmm
yea clearly capitalism IS the solution to lower costs everywhere, worldwide #irony
dngrslycheesy
Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated
elgambito
Collusion not competition
bart2pl
the fallacy of capitalism assuming companies compete, not cooperate
luvless
bingo!
MachineInterface
Healthcare is actually one of the most regulated industries in the US, and big pharma company lobby so that it *stays that way*, making 1/
MachineInterface
fair competition impossible for smaller actors.
stopitlucas
Not when there is plenty of pie to share between all 6..
EchoServ
Inelastic demand prevents driving prices down.
Spongybunny
No, the fact that healthcare is allowed to be profit driven is insane in the first place. My right to live should take precedent over money.
mrducker
Think thats called a "cartel"
mongolmatt
We live in welfare state economy, no free market capitalism here.
Hubb
Share holders provide capital, their part of costs doesnt go away under a different system. Say they buy the materials for the builders
dataengineer
I work in the industry and I have to tell you: the most expensive part of health care in the US is being in the US.
AsleepByDay
Explain?
NotABadLookingNarcissist
A lot of conservative ideals work great in theory....
cannonfodder1503
Healthcare is one of those industries that profits shouldn't factor. It's why it's generally nationalised in others.
[deleted]
[deleted]
cannonfodder1503
Yeah sorry other nation's drs are paid just fine. And if you became a Dr to make money, you're doing it for all the wrong reasons.
fishbulb13
Probably because when you're having a medical emergency, you're not researching prices, you're choosing whichever hospital is closest.
firehawkcultist
Waaaaaa you're shirley you can't be serious, I had no idea. You mean to tell me they monopolized on a basic human right? Shocked and gasp
bigassballs1
You want an example of "free market" in healthcare? Imagine Comcast running your local hospital systems.
CraicFiend87
Yea a lot of theories in capitalism don't translate to reality it would seem.
uniprocrastination
Health is not a commodity.
Braren
Not even close to capitalism. If any of us manufactures and/or sells a medicine we'll be imprisoned. Literally.
SharkShanker
In theory communism is a peaceful people run economy where political opponents don't go missing
ChuckNorrisAteMySock
That's why we need a happy medium.
Highlights333
There are significant distortions because of regulatory and 3rd party payer issues. Remove those burdens and it would work
JudgeMentalCat
So are you saying capitalism only works on paper? *Class awareness intensifies*
HitlaryClintonforprison
Regulations helped them avoid all competition, ask the FDA :D...The reality is that government isnt doing anything but creating monopolies
HitlaryClintonforprison
you can thank the FDA for that one :)
moogoba
It's a bit like asking each person to finance his own military. It works more efficiently if it's done all together for everybody.
Dionysus187
Like a lot of systems in fact, they could work quite well in theory except they get corrupted.
AsleepByDay
Only if your theory assumes people won't behave like people.
Oirilia
It's almost like capitalism only works as intended on paper before adding the human element to it.
PascalsBookie
not really, capitalism means that the people who charge the most and payout the least are the most successful. why for profit health (1/2)
PascalsBookie
insurance is illegal/against morality in most industrialized nation. and was illegal in the US for a while too. (2/2)
uglyshirts
*Free rein.
Electriccarsbestcars
You can't be choosy when you are bleeding to death from your asshole. Free market doesn't work when something is an absolute necessity.
SirBrendan
That would be the theory if we had literally no real-world experience with capitalism. Profits always derive from labour and consumer
burpwind
That's what they say.
FuckYourMorality
In this scenario, capitalism is not the best way for these companies to make money, corporatism is. Limit money from controlling politics 1/
FuckYourMorality
and the best system goes back to capitalism. Competition then becomes the best way to make money. Legally speaking of course. It's 2/
FuckYourMorality
harder to stop illegal pay offs of govt. officials but that actually has consequences, unlike the legal ways we have to pay them off. 3/3
1watt
That theory has been wrong since the beginning of capitalism.
JimmyNeutronTheBoyGenius
Right now insurance companies aren't allowed to sell across state lines which makes it somewhat similar to ISPs and limits choices.
[deleted]
[deleted]
BattloidKouji
Wouldn't. dammit.
BattloidKouji
Pretty much all research done shows that selling across state lines wouldn't do much to help the problem.
TanithRosenbaum
A free marketplace requires the agency and ability to negotiate with multiple providers, including the power to delay a transaction as (1/2)
TanithRosenbaum
negotiation tactic. You have neither, because you can't control when you get sick and need treatment now and wherever you are (agency),(2/3)
TanithRosenbaum
nor did you go to med school and can negotiate competently with a physician (ability) (3/3)
AnythingMuchShorter
Supply and demand doesn't work on something you need to not die, to most people that's worth infinity dollars.
leodavinci1
The problem is everyone dies eventually.
TheGrubinator
That's the theory behind Reaganomics (de-regulation/trickle-down) as a whole. I've been waiting quite literally my entire life (Reagan (1)
TheGrubinator
entered the Presidential office and started pushing trickle-down and deregulation through Congress about five months after I was born) (2)
TheGrubinator
to see this great "competition" that deregulation was supposed to bring. Almost thirty-seven years later, I still haven't seen it.
AsleepByDay
Sounds like it was a lie.
SepiaSkies
Not even in theory. Health care isn't a "normal good." If priced inappropriately, people die, so rational consumer behavior doesn't hold.
Cereaza
The problem is when you need such a massive scale to be competitive, it restricts competition immensely. Try to open an insurance startup.
DonkeyFartSuperPunch
Healthcare has no product substitute, high barriers to entry, inherently asymmetric info, is a necessity. For these reasons it dsnt work.
theInternetKing
Dat health economics...nice
JayEnfield
And holy shit the market power and regulatory capture by the current US health companies.
Jupman
No the free market only creates monopolies an exploitation.
GreenYawgmoth
Free rein, people. It comes from letting a horse (that thing you put reins on) to freely move about without any direction (from your reins).
Ubermenschisch
The problem is capitalism because everyone is out to make the most money. Uni Healthcare will not work if the motivating factor is money.
MichaelAndersen88
Doctors go through a ton of school for the money. There has to be profit for people to go through that much training.
sinskittles
I think they mean that the insurance side of Healthcare will have its drive for profits taken out. This post says profits for docs are good
Ubermenschisch
True dat! Doctors in not for profit Healthcare systems still make a lot of money. It is the insurance side of things that screws everyone.
Ubermenschisch
True dat! Doctors in not for profit Healthcare systems still make a lot of money. It is the insurance side of things that screws everyone.
touchebobbybouche
Because they don't currently have free reign. They are unable to sell policies across state lines which would dismantle monopolized regions.
momemes
yeah they seem to call each other up and agree on a price that won't hurt each other
DVSBSTrD
It's like with Internet Providers: They've consolidated their companies to the point where they've carved up the whole country already
chardlz
Competition is hampered quite a bit by regulation though. The transition to a true free market system may be more effective but would kill 1
chardlz
Lots of people in the mean time. It's philosophically dishonest to call what we currently have a capitalist system though 2
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
No, it's not dishonest at all. It's improper for you to inherently equate a free-market system with a capitalist one. The two terms mean 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
different, somewhat overlapping things. The former refers to an allocation mechanism for setting relative prices of different goods, while 2
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
a healthcare system "effective." 6/6
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
prices while production is handled communally) or a Nordic Model (one with strong safety nets, but private production), or anything in 4/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
the latter defines a system where the factors of production are owned by private entities. You can have market communism (markets set 3/
chardlz
That's quite a narrow definition of capitalism, don't you think? Competition in markets is a pretty basic tenet of most capitalist ideals
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
between. As far as free market being more "effective" but ending up killing more people, I don't think you quite understand what makes 5/
chardlz
1) love your username, quite relevant. 2) I think you misunderstand what I meant. We don't have a capitalist system, free market or (1)
chardlz
Otherwise. We no longer have a system of voluntary exchange and we don't have truly competitve markets with healthcare. (2)
spetcnaz
There are certain things where "free reign of capitalism" has no business. Health care is not one of them. Denying a claim equals profit.
codepink2303
They misspelt 'colluding'
grizzlybeerz
Yeah cause people can just not buy their medication if it's too expensive forcing pharmaceutical companies to lower prices, right?
BalphEubanksLeftNut
Yeah cause people can just not buy their food if it's too expensive forcing farmers to lower prices, right?
BalphEubanksLeftNut
What I'm saying is: The US healthcare market doesn't seem to be a free market due to governmental regulations influenced by pharmaceuticals.
grizzlybeerz
Yes people can do that, they can grow their own food even.
Crschnei
You're exactly right. A direct pay market is the only solution. For those that say it doesn't work, look at lasik eye surgery cost trends
AsleepByDay
The NHS in the UK works well.
Crschnei
Also, for giggles. Next time you have an appointment, ask how much for cash pay vs insurance. Guarantee the cash option is less.
belloftheham
The competition seems to remain between consumer and provider, not the providers themselves. Unhealthy citizens are a cash crop.
Darkcrystalc
"what would you pay to stay alive" seems to be their motto
fiftyfourfourtysixwasmynumber
Especially if you can cancel their policy once they're past their profitability point. Insurers call it "rescission"
ArcaneConjecture
Obama made this illegal. The Republicans want to repeal it.
HonestCommentFarmer
The Suicidally Conservative Republicans want to repeal it. The Normally Crazy Republicans don't.
Darkcrystalc
"what would you pay to stay alive" seems to be their motto
CorgiCircus
Almost as if they made a deal with themselves to divide the country and not compete with themselves in order to control the market.
PiGiSpi
What were those called again? "Not-monopolies" but they had another name or something. was it trust?
tmiller360
Oligopoly
grapesforducks
Collusion?
GringoLoco215
Robber Barons?
WhyNotTellTheWholeInternet
Cartel?
Plasmabunny
Yes because you should "Trust" them to look out for you ;).
PartyMarty92
healthy citizens are the cash crop to insurance companies. Unhealthy are more cash crop for health facilities.
obsidiancolossus
The problem is that when a company get too big, they start dominating and crushing their competition.
fiftyfourfourtysixwasmynumber
Not accurate. Unhealthy citizens in the risk pool allow insurers to raise the rates on EVERYONE in the risk pool.
buckbuckbuckybuck
Sorry guys....
squinkly
Absolutely wrong. There is no plausible premium that would cover the cost of a majority unhealthy pool. It's literally basic arithmetic
theshinobi23
Unhealthy people allow insurers to set high prices. But where the insurers make their money is from healthy people. If you pay 3k/yr 1/2
dmax12
This. I am unhealthy as fuck. one drug cost $27k last year. I payed roughly $5k in premiums.
theshinobi23
And only use $50 for annual checkup, that's pure profit for them. If you hit $10k in bills and they have to pay 80%, it's a loss for them.
Orkimond
Actually it's a textbook example of where capitalistic theory would also predict poor outcomes in an unregulated market.
Skizzlesnap
In theory. But only in theory. Greed seems to trump economic theory though.
RagingBlue
Because if you're dying, and there's a medicine that will cure you, you're gonna pay for it. So they can charge whatever and people will pay
LionHeart31337
Why would you compete and cheat each other out of money? When you can all team together and raise the price collectively?
chuckinnnpoppin
Right, but that's not a capitalist system, that's mercantilism and monopoly. Remember when us progressives we're about breaking trusts?
Sheex
Yes. And then you guys took it to the extreme by saying all regulation is inherently good, and forgot that government systems are
Sheex
corruptable. Then the insurance/big pharma companies bought out the regulators and now have government-sanctioned monopolies.
chuckinnnpoppin
I agree with you, dude. No argument here. Just allow all competition and the market will handle it!
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
Look, I'm as liberal as the next guy, but collusion isn't mercantilism. And at least under Obama, the FTC and DOJ were pretty active in 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
Challenging mergers and anticompetitive behavior in the healthcare industry. I agree with your annoyance at the system, I really do, but 2/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
it's important to focus outrage at the proper targets. Otherwise we can hurt the system even more. 3/3
dingofdong
That theory is bunk - what actually happens is that the corporations act like mafia families, carving up turf to ensure their monopolies
fiftyfourfourtysixwasmynumber
That's what Reagan claimed when he let them become for profit. Before that it was seen as immoral to profit from sickness & misfortune.
chuckinnnpoppin
Being for profit isn't the same as being free market. You need to let smaller companies compete, and allow people to import generic drugs at
chuckinnnpoppin
Half the price, suddenly healthcare is less expensive.
cannonfodder1503
Healthcare companies in the states are more like a cartels they agree prices and don't compete over research
TheUsernameIsSoLongThatYouCantActuallySeetheSpanishinquisition
isn't that illegal?in my country it is
Kennleth
Its called price fixing, but you need proof of collusion otherwise they could just say our cost is the same and we profit off margins.
conquistadorst
But don't forget this all happens with the blessing of state regulators approving the rates they use.
Toast215
The first part is the economic definition of a cartel actually!
dmax12
They agree prices with healthcare organizations. Just because you have insurance, doesn't mean a facility will accept it.
ImHereToGetDownvotes
Yep, that's the different between theory and practice. A simple "You stay in that area, we'll stay over here, and we both profit." 1/?
ImHereToGetDownvotes
seems to be the norm, not "Hey, I'm coming over there, lower your costs or be forced out!" mentality. Nothing like a good 2/?
ImHereToGetDownvotes
Oligarchy to act like there's competition, when really there isn't. 3/3
VoidIncarnate
Health care is not an elastic good.
LizardEnterprises
1/? Because you can't negotiate effectively on your own behalf for healthcare. If I sell a pill that keeps you alive and I tell you it costs
LizardEnterprises
6/? willing to tell you no if the procedure or drug in question doesn't actually deliver good value or have a good shot at saving your life.
LizardEnterprises
8/? keep people from jumping ship to a different provider that they'll cover pretty much anything. Medicare isn't much better, because every
LizardEnterprises
10/10 upset they are at government, socialism, and negros, and Medicare is forced to cover more bullshit.
LizardEnterprises
5/? is closest, because you do not have time to comparison shop. In theory, large insurance providers can negotiate better, because they're
LizardEnterprises
9/? time they try not to cover some bullshit procedure or drug that's no better than placebo, a bunch of angry seniors write in about how
LizardEnterprises
4/? can offer as many discounts on emergency bypass surgery as they feel like, if you have a heart attack, you'll go to whichever hospital
LizardEnterprises
7/? In practice, no one actually understands what any insurance plan does or does not cover, and insurance companies are so desperate to
LizardEnterprises
2/? $5 a month, you'll pay the $5 a month. If instead I tell you it costs $5,000 a month, you'll find a way to pay $5,000 a month. Or Die.
LizardEnterprises
3/? This is called "inelastic demand", and it's a sign that the market in question will not respond well to free market forces. A hospital
RawSuger
i think economic theory has been proven wrong often enough we can start calling it conjecture. patents wreck economic markettheory
Orkimond
Empirical economics is better, no doubt, but actually: economic theory predicts that healthcare would fail in an unregulated market.
noptic
Not wrong but over simplified. A unregulated marked is as free as a society without rules. You do not get freedom but despotism.
Kidiri
Well, it's based on the assumption that humans are rational...
Trbfkd
Rational in the sense that if people make decisions it's because they believe the benefits out weigh the costs
RawSuger
they are for the most part, but its perfectly possible, and some economits point to this for individual selfinterest to add up to a shitshow
RheaButt
I think he means informed, a lot of shit gets big because idiots fall for adds
RawSuger
often ppl will buy shit ads have hyped. that is rational if your preference is social status fx
KevinMenzel
Capitalism doesn't work in practice.
tzap
Well, technically speaking, all of the modern times' most economically and socially succesful countries have been capitalist. That said, 1/2
tzap
.. it'd be stupid and fallacous to ignore that these countries, USA included, also have had strong government and taxing involved. 2/2
ImHereToTellYouThatsWrong
You can have a strong government and still be capitalist (eg state capitalism). You can have a mutualist market economy without capitalism.
tzap
Right, but basically all of the most succesful countries in what goes to general welfare, education level, etc, are capitalist + strong gov.
ImHereToTellYouThatsWrong
And all of the worst ones. Capitalism and strong government are interrelated in the accumulation of power, of course they are successful.
ArcaneConjecture
That theory only works if buyers fully understand the product. Insurance is so complicated that even smart customers are easily fooled.
GaySocialistLiberalMuslimCommieAtheist
competition works but the richest men america has ever had got that way by killing all competition therefore thats what people try to do
TheTallKid
Got have that nanny state government come in and help!
SoniChan
One of the many reasons why they should be NPOs. Then the competition would be between the companies to offer customers better service.
ForgeoftheWordsmith
It also only works with healthy market entry and a robust selection of competitors with no collusion. So. It practically never works.
godskook
Government has been fucking around with this since the '40s. Let's give the Free Market a shot, eh?
IamtheJubster
Not to mention government regs that protect the (shared) monopoly
Eowyneb
He explains it so well. https://youtu.be/09RvU9_m30Q
calenlass
It is intentionally artificially complicated to make it hard for consumers to understand!
matyles
I don't have to worry about what healthcare to get because I can afford any of them
ttosca
The theory doesn't even work then. Competition only works in a narrow range of non-essential goods & services when highly regulated.
The5lacker
That and, you know, it's not a commodity that you can just choose not to buy. You're in no position to bargain.
conquistadorst
Problem number one: most people think they're buying health care but they're usually only buying health insurance.
SaraFourImgur
No one knew how complicated it could be! SAD.
supraman2turbo
Not only that capitalism does not have free reign in the health insurance market
DVSBSTrD
And since it's a service, the ongoing quality is dependent on the providers. What you bought may not be what you get.
sigh5
as someone liceansed to sell insurance i dont understand it either
ArcaneAlchemist
that and if any one insurance company tried to undercut the rest they'd get bough out from underneath themselves and prices would go back up
mediaman73
And you as the consumer don't choose. Your employer does.
conquistadorst
Problem number one: most people think they're buying health care but they're usually only buying health insurance.
InTheEndThoughItsJustInnuendo
As someone who works as an analyst in the industry, many in the industry don't understand how complex it is
rawrkittensilovethem
As someone getting a PhD in the industry, the lack of understanding is scary in all settings. Health care is very complex
ThrowMamaFromTheTrain
But it doesn't need to be.
rawrkittensilovethem
Eh. It seems more like a tangle of headphone wires that regardless of the section you pull, seem to tangle themselves worse with each effort
hotterpop
"who could know insurance is so complicated"
JollyGreenAl
Plus each group policy takes away individuals from choosing.
GreaterDog
You hardly ever see the costs beforehand. You often don't get to choose a hospital in an emergency or due to insurance, either.
matyles
I found out that one the hard way, few thousand dollars in medical debt for a bust internal hemorrhoid.
BlueKarat
It's almost like car work just without the estimate beforehand and it's your life on the line sometimes.
RemiRixJones
New business model: assume your customer is stupid! ...that's actually not a bad idea.
IAmTheBadW01f
Also many traditional rules of economics don't apply, nobody is going to choose not to save their own life, no matter the cost.
ttosca
Exactly.
theloneponderer
Jokes on you, I'd gladly choose not life.
JayEnfield
As an economist: The theory works in an environment of perfect competition, which is one where there are no barriers to entry for a new co.
joku2
The theory does not work because sick people have to buy at any price, no need for new co do any better than old.
JayEnfield
As a counter-example, you should check out the German health insurance industry. Their market is set up for easy entry and high competition.
ArcaneConjecture
You also need perfect information. But healthcare is so complicated no consumer has it. So we get fleeced and cheated.
JayEnfield
IMO, you guys should be trying to clone the German system. It seems the most compatible with Yank sensitivities and objectives to me.
TehStoner
Also, we have no choice in where we go to have a service done. Good luck price shopping when you dont even know what other options exist
GasBandit
Healthcare "networks" are set up by insurance companies/HMOs specifically to reduce competition and fix prices.
squinkly
This makes zero sense. A network is merely a set of providers included in your benefit package whether hmo/ppo/etc. Narrow networks reduce $
squinkly
for the patient. A choice in networks and more specialized networks are good for consumers. Read your EOB for a basic definition of 'network
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
...What? Networks have nothing to do with reducing competition...
GasBandit
You can see a doc who isn't "in network," but you're gonna pay more out of pocket, even if his rates are lower. Because collusion is awesome
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
That's not collusion though, that's vertical contracting. Insurance companies don't provide the care directly themselves, so they 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
negotiate contracts with those who do. I'm failing to see how that's "reducing competition" 2/2
vanillax
in practice, allowing capitalism free reign destroys the environment, and exploits all resources incl. people. duh, it's so effing obvious!
Kierbear2g
Shit, in theory it does that too. Fucking tragedy of the commons.
reux
Not necessarily, it depends on what the value of sustainability, etc. is.
reux
Could argue that companies like Tesla are poised to make a ton of money with greener technologies.
reux
And work being done on the quantum level in computing is having impact on our ability to manage power and build efficient infrastructures
KevinMenzel
But would they be poised to do so without environmental regulation putting pressure on the market?
reux
At some point they'd have to. Hard to make money when your audience is dead.
BattloidKouji
healthcare is a poor market for free market capitalism, because the demand is so inelastic. You're not going to compare hospitals (1)
eroso
If you are bleeding, it's too late.
Highlights333
There's a difference between healthcare and high risk insurance. That detail is what people need to understand
YouJustABattleRapper
Thank you
Spongybunny
And I've never seen a hospital list prices for anything until I've already received the service and am forced to pay the amount.
Highlights333
Right!!! This should be law.
BattloidKouji
while you're bleeding out. (2)
HydrochloricKitten
No, but you will when you have non-emergency issues. I sure as hell did.
Elroydb
Right but for non-emergency services listing prices would go a long way. Prices for an MRI even in the same town are hugely different
HonestCommentFarmer
And what about devices and medicines? If you have cancer and a doctor says that the only drug for you is only made by one manufacturer...
HonestCommentFarmer
because they hold a patent on it, then they are free to charge however much they feel like. Their argument is you are paying for R&D, but...