zoraniko
52509
1232
17
https://www.mashed.com/774698/why-walmart-failed-in-germany/
Jul 18, 2024 3:40 AM
zoraniko
52509
1232
17
https://www.mashed.com/774698/why-walmart-failed-in-germany/
HeresYourSauce
Worked at Walmart. Managed to avoid most of it, but it is 100% expected of you.
I'm sure the frequency/intensity depends on the location, but it's horrible. I made the choice I wasn't gonna do it, even if they fired me for it. Quit like two weeks later.
dataengineer
funny enough, that sort of stuff cost ~10+ million dollars in consultant hours and was, for that time, without a doubt an effective team building thing. The problem is--things that scale from 50k employees rarely scale well to 500k employees.
notacobra
This is a good time to remember that just because something was designed by a committee of very well paid people nodding their heads with self importance, doesn't mean it actually works.
reting1111
I love that i can just wear my face in Europe. The US sounds like hell on earth if you're in the service industry.
Attritshun
Germans be like
jethz
I am uncomforzable.
PineappleLoopsBroether
This is how I felt on the two occasions I went to coldstone at 19 years old…. The singing… The stupid size names… the over cheery greetings…. I just want ice cream.
eddbrowne
Misfits from Europe escape to US then next generations take revenge with Walmart.
BobsBurgerslurker
Same when I worked at Sam's club.
dataengineer
you mean Walmarts costco....
Greymalum
This was designed by Walmart to be a team building exercise. Please understand the people forcing this are morons.
turkizno
It still acts as a team building still, but the rally of the pitchforks kind instead, I feel
Greymalum
I worked for them for four years. I never met anyone who enjoyed it that was more mentally ill than I.
NerveStruck
My mother used to be a sort of intern at a walmart in germany for some time and besides the forced 'team-spirit' they also had to, at the end of the week/month (don't remember), listen to their manager state the companies profits and applaud. Applauding was mandatory.
mikeatike
I was gonna say "this is what happens when you apply thr culture of one company to another", but wait no, this isn't fuckin American culture.
It is the cult-culture of southern baptists and other Christians in the south of the USA. Same for Chic-fil-a and Hobby Lobby and other businesses run by cultists.
TheMoonBnuuy
My sister works in the TLE (Tire Lube Express) of a Walmart. She both helps with tire and oil changes as well as tends the till. TLE (at least at her Walmart) doesn't have to do do the stupid shift team building stuff, and yet somehow they're a lot tighter knit there than the rest of the store is.
kadaeux
Not having to put up with shit other people are forced to builds camaraderie.
TheMoonBnuuy
Or maybe not being forced into a pack allows a more natural pack to develop
Imadethisaccounttopost
I was a teen when I worked for Walmart in the 90s, and would get in trouble for not actively participating in the chant and the "Squiggle" where they had you bend your knees and shake your hips.
They pulled so much shit on their employees, such as forcing them to clock out at closing but stay in the building, unpaid until it's cleaned. They'd pull the same shit if you were close to over time, make you clock out and finish your shift.
Then there was the Anti Union BS (Next post)
Imadethisaccounttopost
The first day was sitting on a couch/lounge/break room watching 8hrs of Anti-Union movies and other propaganda. Not to mention a computer testing system that went over their anti-union sentiment and employee handbook...
https://youtu.be/Y6bFEs4ZoXw?si=NQeslztenOc2jnjS
AzgarOgly
I mean where I live we always exchange hellos with a cachier and wish each other a good day, Chain shop or not.
But "team building rituals" are just a bullshit. Corporate brainwash is not welcomed in Europe.
Keairan
I always managed to be doing something productive when that stupid cheer was going on. And usually that was actual work, but I'd consider breathing and blinking to be more productive tbh.
CityYeti
Ritualistic chants are a form of brain washing.
mikeatike
Walmart comes from the south of the USA, so you can imagine why
QuigleyDownUnder
After hearing about the mandatory cheer I feel like the Geneva convention needs to get involved
2Ghoul4School
If my boss mandated I cheer the name of the company at the beginning of every shift, they'd have to hold another round of Nuremberg trials just for me.
TyrannusEquus
Nothing enrages me quite like mandatory cheers
TheSaltyCaptain
That's not team-building... That's coerced inculcation.
AdoraApplesauceMeowmeow
That looks a lot like some fucked up distopic future where humanity is controlled by WALLMART, which is in reality the acrony of some alien-made indoctrination practice
Wookieoo7
Woollies in Australia tried doing this a while back too, maybe only the store I was in, I hated it. It didn’t make me feel like I was part of the team, rather that we were performing to please management.
SirSpot
The store I was in had one ASM who tried to enforce that stupid fuckery, only the biggest brown-nosers participated, I refused and was threatened with warnings but never actually received one.
mikeatike
Age, Sex, Map?
kadaeux
Assistant Store Manager iirc
SirSpot
Correct.
williamvanauger
American companies largely fail in Europe because they try to get away with stuff that does t fly here. I think 4 seasons tried to dock an hour's pay for even seconds of lateness in the UK, and by UK law if you aren't paid you don't work so everyone just took the hit and chilled for an hour.
Illpostcheese
And just to be clear, in the UK we don't play the national anthem when theme parks open. As a Brit, I found that odd.
MrsHowVeryDareYou
You sound like an excellent leader! Are you hiring????
AyatollahBahloni
Verständlich. Amerikaner sind, im großen und ganzen, Kulturbanausen.
Feralkyn
That's not the reason.
Wal-mart works in places that are ex. food deserts and concrete jungles, with sprawling suburban spaces. It means you can get everything cheaply in one places, instead of going between stores.
In Germany, shit is -already- that cheap, and since towns/villages tend to be much more clustered, the stores are specialist, higher-quality, and easier to get to. Wal-mart simply could not compete with already cheap, higher-quality local goods.
mikeatike
Walmart creates the food deserts and concrete jungles. Rural areas that had standard shopping and maybe a small strip mall become the cookie cutter of Walmart development when they move in.
Feralkyn
A food desert is usually a result of an urban space divorced from any place where food is grown. Ofc a big-box store can put smaller local grocers out of business but it's usually "poor city area far from farms," where the cost of shipping drives up grocery costs & leads to processed foods (longer sell-by dates) being cheaper than healthier, fresher foods
Feralkyn
(one place* typo)
Feralkyn
I visited one or two here (I live in Germany) after having worked at Wal-Mart in the US way back when. Basically nothing they sold was difficult to obtain locally (just as cheaply & for better quality). There was just no reason to go there.
Feralkyn
(The stores were also HUGE, which cost a lot to maintain, and basically were disorganized & nearly empty b/c of the above reasons)
mikeatike
Even in the US Walmart is only slightly more organized than a Dollar General. Tho I wonder if that's by design, to get people to wonder around looking for the thing they want, and end up with impulse buys?
Feralkyn
The actual placement of products is intended that way, iirc, to make sure people pass things they're more likely to impulse buy on the way to things they're probably THERE for. In this case, what I mean is--for example--they simply cannot sell clothing more cheaply than Kik already does; their food is lower-quality and more expensive than local grocers such as Lidl or Aldi... etc. So basically they just had junk strewn about. They were trying to find some sort of merch niche & failed.
ThisIsMyUsernameThereAreManyLikeIt
"We're not a company, we're a *FAMILY*!"
Oh fuck off.
TheFluteFromBandCamp
US companies have a history of awful launches abroad. Like KFC in India, they didn't think to offer more vegetarian options in a predominantly vegetarian country
anonwhymouse
Used to work at wal-mart 20 some odd years ago on 3rd shift, they tried to get us to do the wal-mart chant, gave up after we kept refusing
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
Had to "clap out" morning meetings at Amazon. It's a good way to tell people you don't view them as professional adults.
Apeofdeath
Kyrorayne
I worked for wal-mart (3 months in 2006) and never had to do that. Then again, our wal-mart was a 24-hour superstore.
EntertainMeNL
The forced greeting is also unnerving
It's totally cringe worthy because you know somebody is being paid just to say hi to you. That seems like a degrading job to me.
(Then again, money is money...)
bloodbloodbloodblood
Welcome to Walmart, I love you
MrsHowVeryDareYou
Getting customers is pretty standard in America. It feels weird to me now if someone doesn’t acknowledge my presence - like maybe the store isn’t open yet? But after that, I definitely don’t want to hear “so what are we shopping for today?!” or any semblance of small talk.
FetteredJuvenescence
All jobs are degrading. If it's something you're forced to do to continue eating and living under a roof, it's degrading.
walnutbreath
Still not as bad as restaurants that make staff sing happy birthday to customers. I refuse to dine with people that humiliate servers with that shameful nonsense.
VikingsAreNinjaPirates
I used to love Texas Road House. Then we went on a night where five different tables celebrated birthdays. They have the loudest, most obnoxious birthday announcement, screeching like Texan harpies being thrown into diesel wood chippers.
We don't go there anymore.
EntertainMeNL
How about being the subject which is being sung at.
Talk about shame
ArcaneM37
In my area, it is always elders who are greeters. At first, I thought it was a nice, low-impact job for them and I appreciated Walmart for it. Now they have to chase customers down to look at their receipts to see if they stole anything while at self check out cause Walmart wont pay checkers. It's just sad now.
VikingsAreNinjaPirates
I love any business model where it's cheaper to let customers occasionally steal things than pay for check out clerks.
Lyconous
Occasionally?
EntertainMeNL
Even often.
Because stealing = insurance
While clerks = payment
ParaspriteHugger
To us Germans it reeks of inefficiency: "that job could be done cheaper with a sign! Why are you wasting expensive man-hours on that nonsense? No wonder the prices here are that high."
EntertainMeNL
Dutch here. So yeah..same.
Slickdoodle
It's because there's some study that says you'll reduce the likelihood of somebody shoplifting if you greet them with eye contact. Really.
therealalansmithee
“Expensive man hours” not really a thing at WM. poorly paid is what they are.
ParaspriteHugger
Not in Germany.
Horsebatteries
Had a long term student job with Media Markt, which ended up being my first full time employer. The Antwerp store was under new management, and the guy was Dutch, he'd been store manager in a few Dutch stores before. And he did -not- understand the cultural differences. If you go up to a Belgian person in a store out of nowhere and start your sales pitch without them indicating they're open to it, you will most likely see them heading for the exit a few minutes later. /1
cgt9803
WTF, you're sales pressuring customers walking around your store? That's even beyond America unless you're talking about car dealerships. I would walk out pronto.
Horsebatteries
The Dutch, culturally, are much more extraverted. We have an expression here that basically, you always know if a Dutch person is at a place. They make themselves known. To be fair, we say the same about Americans.
Horsebatteries
He'd prowl the store looking for employees who weren't pushing customers hard enough. He'd try to be all helpful and point out he hadn't seen you talk to this or that person yet, better get on there. And he would not take the advice from locals who'd been in the business for over a decade.
So he got an old teammate of his in to run our department. Someone who did believe in the Wallmart style of things. /2
Horsebatteries
He'd go around in silly outfits he'd borrowed from the Dutch marketing team, because the Belgian head office would never consider something so dumb. And yes, sales started to trend downward, especially for big purchases. We'd basically try to work around these guys, out of their FOV, to get back to business. But it was a circus, and they did not understand the cultural difference. New store opened up in the area, and a large number of the staff moved there instead. /3
Horsebatteries
I think the Dutch experiment ended in under a year, meaning they must have really tanked sales. Store management buy-in and buy-out were famously incredibly high numbers.
winternal
What kind of a sadistic void of joy mind comes up with an idea that people should degrade themselves like this for minimal pay.
anitabieror6
The Walton family?
Luckylinz
Billionaires.
AmZero85
Someone with an MBA who wants to put their name with a big change so they can put it on their resume. If I ever ran a retail chain, everyone in the C-Suite, even me, would be required to spend a set number of hours each year working on the front line.
AmZero85
For me, seeing the bosses down in the trenches doing the things they ask me to do, would build the team a whole lot more than any cheer.
winternal
What many companies would need more than team spirit would be for those with a high level view to sometimes see the low level view
AmZero85
I worked for Kohls for 5 years, 3 of those years we opened on Thanksgiving. Rumor at the time was that the CEO at the time took his family on vacation using the corporate jet. A real leader would've been at a store and realizing that strategy didn't generate any more sales and was a waste of time. They quietly walked that back during covid, never admitting it was a bad idea.
winternal
Must've been a real morale booster
sirava
I don't think that was the main reason. I think the main reason is that Germany actually has labor laws.
MaverickTitan
There can be two reasons.
ParaspriteHugger
Plus they couldn't work with the slim margins of the discounter dominated German grocery market, the groceries + big non-food section sector was already taken by Kaufland and the then still somewhat healthy department store that wasn't as mallified as in the US gave them the rest. They just didn't do their homework on too many subjects and failed.
Jbelkin
Closed on Sundays plus no regular discounting. Periodic sales are okay. I think you also have to close by 9 PM?
TheWombatStrikesAgain
That and the already strong competition from discounters were the main factors. But people also rejected their corporate culture. Like greeters and packers, and forced smiles. Freaked people out.
mymustachecallstheshots
Walmart has stores in countries with actual labor laws, they make enough money that they can follow those laws, they just try not to when they can get away with it. However, cultural differences are real, and you don't greet random people in germany, they legit find that to be serial killer creepy
unluckyandbored
And they actually enforce them.
PotFox
Do you really think a corporation or their shills would ever be honest about why a company is failing? It totally wasn't Walmarts business practices that lead to their failure! It was these tiny nuances in cultural differences!
AxelBeingCivil
And labour unions worth a damn.
Quaxx
I confirm - things are different in Germany. Different shopping culture, different mindset. We dont drive for miles to go shopping. We also do not like to walk through a large store for half an hour just to get a handful of items. But Walmart is not the only US corp that failed. Dominos Pizza tried for decades to establish their chain in Germany until they gave up and bought a large local Pizza franchise instead. Germans then complained about the changed recipes and menu, so they kept the olds.
RupertQZerconia
And they did not understand the whole logistics situation in Germany. A part of their business that makes them competitive in the US
SaintSleepyWeasel
Also the people won't shop there.
ChePollino
Germany has veeeeeery strong competition with the likes of Aldi, Lidl Edeka and Rewe. They are powerful enough to dictate food prices to the manufacturers, not the other way around.
DryAgedPopsicle
I am a German, and when I was young, an Interspar superstore a few hundred meters from my school was transformed into a Walmart. I do not remember being greeted even once, but after the transformation the shopping experience was basically you enter the shopping area and the first things you see is a tray of the most ugly jeans you ever saw with awkward patches next to some bicycles next to electric beard trimmers. Later it was transformed into a real superstore and everything got normal again.
DryAgedPopsicle
Addentum: "real" (or "real,-" as the logo is written) is another chain of superstores.
I was even held at that Walmart for shoplifting despite not having anything done, so even their surveillance tech or security personnel was shit. Has never happened anywhere before or after again.
SURPRISEscience
Walmart has a loss prevention culture that can be described as "that guy looks sus" and is 1000% about being visible at stopping people and not being correct
softsuit
It was VAT & Labor Laws. Couldn't compete.
SaladinIskander
I thought the reason was Aldi and Lidl
Orbalus
There were a lot of weird things.
They took one of their own Managers to handle Walmart Germany.
This guy didn’t speak a single word of German and had absolutely no clue about German laws. So more than once they got into trouble for it.
Customers complained about the smiling, cheering and awkward friendlyness.
Just to name a bunch of things.
I think there’s a small documentary on YouTube about it.
odondon
at least two of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59AMOw">%3D">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59AMOwlf6XQ&pp=ygUXd2FsbWFydCBmYWlsIGluIGdlcm1hbnk%3D; and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxtXI0K4YJs.
NappaTheFriendlyGhost
They had a similar problem in Japan. No attempt was made to adapt the store to Japanese culture and instead of a localization campaign they launched an extremely condescending advertising campaign that could be summed up as "Look how much better our American way of thinking is you silly Japanese people!" The basic problem was the Japanese equivalent of "you get what you pay for" leading many people in Japan to believe that walmart's products were low quality, last resort goods.
lunatic02
They are low quality goods. I refuse to ship at Wal-Mart, they are bad for small towns and everyone in general.
ProbablyWrong524
That's an accurate assessment of their goods.
Windharp
I have been to one a few times, because of a very convenient location, and especially considering the size it was the most sh*t supermarkt I have been to in Germany. So in addition to all of the above, Germany already had a wide range of superior supermarket chains in place. There was no niche for them to fill.
colfish
I have fond memories of going to Real when we lived in Germany, none of the weirdness of Walmart and better stuff.
Windharp
Yes, that was one if my favourites, too. but unfortunately Real isn't anymore. A lot of the stores closed, some now are Kaufland some Edeka.
SortaSordid
Asda in the UK was owned by Walmart in the early 00s there were no perceivable chants though. Their only claim to fame at the time was that they had 24 hour shopping in London which is fabulous when you finish work at stupid o'clock. I don't think they were any more successful beyond that, but I've been away for years so I don't know any more.
RemtonDulyak
We had Tesco, here in Prague, with one shop being open 24h, I loved it because I could go there at night, if I couldn't sleep.
We still have Tesco, but that specific store is now closed 0.00-6.00.
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itsallaboutthecones
They stopped it during COVID and never started back, right?
ThomasThundersword
i am so glad the winco (grocery store) in my area was 24h back when i was working “late shifts” (like am i leaving work at 8pm or 2am today? late shifts) idk wtf i would have done without that.
DrMadMadge
God bless Winco and their cheap produce, cheese, and bulk items
MyRespectableAlterEgo
I’m American based in the UK: Asda are VERY quiet about that: Walmart are super unpopular here - like brits often bring it up as being a weird and unsettling feature of America. if Asda made workers do a weird little chant it would make the papers and probably be a minor scandal. That’s not to say Brits wouldn’t do it though: in some US towns there’s literally no other employers - in those circumstances, most workers would do whatever was necessary to eat and survive.
CarlBassett
Asda are no longer owned by Walmart. The Issa brothers bought them a year or two age. But apparently one brother sold out so now it's just one. Walmart do have a small share left, like 5% IIRC.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
Yeah I remember hearing about that - but that's kinda what I mean about how they kept the Walmart stake pretty quiet: like Walmart decided not to extend their brand to the UK. I think if they'd publicly opened stores under their own name it probably wouldn't have gone down well.
SortaSordid
I only discovered the link to Walmart was that they had the same shitty clothing house brand. It was only then I looked into ownership stake further. Supermarkets in the UK are just plain weird at times, I can't imagine what they are like post Brexit (other than more expensive).
MyRespectableAlterEgo
Not that different tbh- some of them sell clothes and homeware stuff and some have separate electronics stores attached to them, but they’re pretty much just buildings full of food… why did they seem odd to you?
CarlBassett
Food in the UK is generally cheaper than in the US and most of Europe. There have been a few threads on imgur complaining about how expensive food in the UK and Canada has become. Inflation happened everywhere, nothing to do with Brexit.
TheOnlyPtylerdactyl
Basically what I'm getting is that Walmart brings a whole "exploitative and transparently robotic imitation of human behavior" vibe that most places don't really like
Isthe4thtimethecharm
Corporate mandated friendliness goes way too far in the US. I hate walking into a store and getting acknowledged by the employee on the other side. I don't want to yell good morning. But I am a dick if I don't say it back.
spookyu
The way I always describe it is that I value authentic interactions. If someone genuinely greets me and is chipper, cool I'm glad they feel like that at work, but if someone greets me with any kind of forced happiness or enthusiasm I feel awful, because nobody should have to do that and I know they're being made to. People are more intuitive with social interaction than we tend to think, there's research showing how easily people can tell inauthentic expressions, just let people be, ya know?
spookyu
Of course, corporations will take data like "hey when our employees display how they feel at work our sales go down" and purposefully misunderstand it. I'm glad to spend my money somewhere that treats their employees well and it shows, but if it's obvious employees generally want to claw their own eyes out while being forced to have the 'customer service smile' plastered on...nah, not a good workplace, don't want to support that company.
SURPRISEscience
You should move here to Oregon. Most people here don't want to say good morning or have fake pleasantries. Sometimes all I ever say to a cashier is "no bags please". Often people who move here think everyone is rude because we don't have a culture that forces interaction. Unless your hiking, then everyone is gonna say hi.
Isthe4thtimethecharm
Well, yeah, when hiking, you have to let people know you are closer to a bear than a man.
Twyll
The Germans really were legitimately put off by the greeters though. My dad traveled to Germany fairly frequently back then, and described how viscerally unsettled they were at the whole concept.
HandoB4Javert
NappaTheFriendlyGhost
Companies that fail to take culture into account when moving to other countries tend to have many problems. Walmart is somewhat notorious for this. Failed expansions into Japan and Mexico too. Japan due to a failure to account for Japanese culture regarding pricing followed by a terrible ad campaign that basically said they were stupid for being different and Mexico... crime. So much crime. Rampant bribing, ignoring zoning laws, etc. Assumed the government was corrupt enough to let it slide.
popeyeNL
As a Dutch guy, the American "friendly" behaviour feels really fake.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
To be fair, you guys are pretty famous for being ruthlessly blunt as a form of friendliness, so I’m sure it’s a bigger contrast. I prefer the Dutch mentality personally, but Americans in particular value hearing things they like more than things that are true.
TsunamiWombat
I worked a grocery store job for 5 years and I still have ptsd. I can only use self checkout because seeing the dead look in peoples eyes gives me flashbacks.
hellfirerains
Trust me, it is. I would put on my happy little face, but my brain would be somewhere else. I did not care about the customers, I did not care about the store, I did not care about the other employees. I was not paid enough to actually care.
CatharticRooster
As a previous customer service slave, It feels fake because we were making 80 dollars a day (in 2021!) and we wanted to engage in violence upon the customers. When I found a new job it felt *amazing* to let it all hang out before I left. I told atleast four people to "get the fuck out then" when they had complaints or issues. They KNOW we are forced to smile and asskiss, so they make our lives hell.
SpaceballsTheComment
The concept of the "cheerleader smile" is generally understood by non-Americans as something inherently American. Especially when it comes to retail.
Targe0
Because they don't do forced pleasantry, unlike America, which is built on them. The other reason why Walmart failed is the structure of store it is, just didn't fit into the German market. The way Walmart sells things just isn't how Germany buys thing.
Twyll
Yup! On the other hand, the way Germany buys things ended up proving popular in the US. I live near an Aldi AND a Lidl, and both do good business! And every American I talk to about either/both of those stores is like "oh yeah I love them." So it seems like things just needed to work in the other direction lol
BishlamekGurpgork
No, see, you gotta think about the billionaires.
TheMuellmann
The founders of Aldi have been the richest people in Germany for many years, very much billionaires.
Milkarius
German efficiency at its finest! Although most stores in the Netherlands do the same as in Germany. Retail staff like me is technically told to greet customers but anything more than eye contact and a nod would feel off to me for most customers. Like am I supposed to ask them to take out earphones to say hi? haha
Twyll
Hmmm obviously this conundrum requires learning sign language lol.