iceage2012
63342
1071
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Sep 20, 2023 2:07 PM
iceage2012
63342
1071
7
madeejit
More reliable than other Teslas.
VodkaReindeer
Rub one out raging against planned obsolescence and then watch Technology Connections with clarity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7Bs98KmnY
PrinceOfWhales
Well, watt do you know!
westPAguy
Well, czech that out.
kufwar
That was like, 10 years ago.
DancingSwine
1990 is not THAT old :(
crypresthesia
Bruh, it's two-ish years away from being old enough to run for US president
quietwalker
Yeah, that wasn't even 10 years ago.
Mortbise
It's a third of a century. It was the average world lifespan in the early 1900's.
Kyen155
jg03278888
Thank you
Racealistic
Im from 1990 D:
ValiantToast
What's so impressive about a 10 year old bulb
Persmo
Speaking of light bulbs. Here's a good video from Veritasium talking about how things are manufactured to intentionally not last for too long. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE
gandraw
Back when Tesla still made quality products.
khora
And consumed 10 times the energy of a LED
BlastFX
Different Tesla. This one died in the 90s. Well, technically they still exist, but these days, they're just rebranding white label trash from China.
Cloud9Light
Designed obsolescence.
Dracology
I remember watching an interesting video on this about how bulbs used to last super long and then basically all the bulb manufactures decided that they wanted to make more money so they made the bulbs shitty and made a testing setup to test each others bulbs to make sure nobody was making any that were too much better than their competitions.
ZiomalZParafii
Nice! I still have some things from Czechoslovakia, like a mastermind game I play with my kid.
wfo87Stang
They don’t make ‘em like that anymore!
rbudrick
Light bulbs absolutely can be made to last centuries, but capitalism forces obsolescence. It is well-documented how the early years of bulb production were rife with agreements between manufacturers to make sure bulbs died.
ZiomalZParafii
I have a fluorescent lamp that is used on daily basis for more than 30 years (I had it when I was in primary school, still used as a bed lamp now). Good old times with robust things.
Tarreb
Technology connections made an interesting video on the planned obsolescence of lightbulbs, and why the controversy might be a bit overblown. It's a 30 minute video, but it's a bit en-light-ening. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7Bs98KmnY
ahbrannon1
I like the logo TESLA.
anitamargarita
Fun fact: The Centennial Light is the world's longest-lasting light bulb, burning since 1901, and almost never turned off. It is located at 4550 East Avenue, Livermore, California, and maintained by the Livermore-Pleasanton Fire Department. It was originally a 30-watt (or 60-watt) bulb, but is now very dim, emitting about the same light as a 4-watt nightlight.
Snausagebort
Sounds like me.
TheLuminousBanana
Woot Woot - Livermooooore!
7thSonOfANinja
Maintained?
BlastFX
Yeah, same light output as a 4watt night light, but probably still guzzling down like 20 watts at least. That's the whole secret — you're making a trade-off between longevity and efficiency. Making long-lasting bulbs is easy, they're just crazy inefficient. In a world where incandescent bulbs cost less than $1, going for longevity at the expense of efficiency makes no sense.
petresun
It also uses a carbon filament instead of tungsten, which is what we use now. This is because carbon filaments are fairly brittle.
atomfixes101
Lightbulbs are a great example of planned obsolescence. They absolutely could be made to last much longer, but there is no profit in a bulb that costs $2 and lasts 30 years
SoupCanMan
You wpuld also have to put up 10 more light bulbs to get any usable light. Don't mix conspiracies with eachother. That's how we get the Lochness monster controlling Hollywood.
n0n53n53
It has a webcam too http://bulbcam.cityofpleasantonca.gov/view/view.shtml
MrKapustahead
Never turning it off is the key. Turning on a light creates a jolting surge of current across the filiment. That's why most bulbs fry the instant you turn them on.
HUGHgReaction
And the heat expansion and contraction shorten the life too when it is turned off and on
banjak
'Every day since 1990' Yeah they don't have to do much during the day, it's at night they have to work hard.
positiveleroy
7 people have brains so smooth you could use their measurements as mathematical constants.
Joylove
Turning them on and off seems to be the biggest stress on the filament, so burning it 24/7 may make it last longer.
Volmaaral
Me with blackout curtains who relies on one lamp for most of my light because screw the sun: “Haha, yeah, so true…”
idontknowyoufromadam
shouldbedoingsomethinguseful
I used to ride by this bulb everyday on the way to school...
keepbeachcityweird
I might be used in an area inside the building where there are no windows. I work in a large building that has lots of areas with no windows or natural light. *Thus being used during the day also*
onecowboytoo
Maybe this guy is Pink Floyd and he is on the dark side of the moon.
AlGoonie
And just because the bulb was made in 1990 doesn't mean it was installed immediately after production
actualnarwhal
Just like your mom...
tomatoboy
Depending on how they were used, incandescent bulbs could last quite a while.
stercusmoriturussum
Depending on how they were designed and built. You could always build (and buy) long life incandescent bulbs. Essentially (for you computer nerds) these were undervolted (by design) and therefore had an even worse efficiency than standard bulbs, but a lot higher life expectancy. On the other hand, you could drive the efficiency up by essentially overvolting the bulbs - and thereby shortening their lifetime.
stercusmoriturussum
Case in point were the small halogen bulbs for bicycle headlights: designed for a life expectancy of a few tens of hours, but very high efficiency - for a small halogen bulb.
fredhoffman1968
they dont sell light bulbs like that anymore in the US ..LED only i think
Khoshteep
That is a quality product. The next one will probably last 1 year. They don't make 'em like they used to. Guess why?
missjmjmjm
So cool!!! My house was built in 1949. The lights in the attic have never been changed. They stopped making them in the 1960s!!!
pugcashingout
For my American friends, it is the capital of Paris
everlonley
I once had a sachs-dollar chainsaw that had printed on the case “made in west Germany, that was pretty cool.
criticalhitkoala
Wasn't there a thing in the 1930's or 1940's that Philips and others were involved in for planned obsolescence so they would consistently be able to make money? Wouldn't be surprised if this bulb was well before that time.
criticalhitkoala
So did a little checking, and it looks like bulbs like these were from the 50's~60's. Still old though.
Einbrecher
That's the story, but not really what happened. The cartel existed, but the planned obsolescence bit stems from folks that don't understand the tradeoff between brightness and life in light bulbs. Long-life bulbs existed then as they do now, but are horribly energy inefficient.
kirmokum
^that's according to the cartel itself, which still fined companies if they made bulbs that lasted over 1000hrs.
Einbrecher
That's according to anyone with eyes. A 1,000 hour standard bulb at wattage X is significantly brighter than a 2,500 long-life bulb at wattage X. To get an equivalent brightness out of the long-life bulb, you have to move to a higher wattage, meaning you're using more electricity for the same brightness. This tradeoff was well understood before the cartel was even formed, and modern incandescent bulbs are subject to it too. The fine existed, yes, but it had nothing to do with obsolescence.
totallyruinedyourday
Making light bulbs that wear out were the some of the first instances of planned obsolescence.
Einbrecher
They're the go-to example folks bring up when discussing planned obsolescence, but that's not what actually happened. It's all comes down to a simple correlation - bright bulbs are more energy efficient but burn out more quickly. Dim bulbs last longer but are energy inefficient. Long-life bulbs were available during the time of the cartel, as they are available today, but they require significantly more electricity to achieve the same brightness.
DickVergaman
It's complicated: Watch https://youtu.be/zb7Bs98KmnY
thesameasyours
100 watt? Was it a death ray?
tomatoboy
100 watts wasn’t exactly a blazing torch when it comes to incandescent bulbs. A “normal” bulb was 60, but 100 watt bulbs were also very common.
SherMattLockSmith
Could be why it lasted so long, 100w draw but not being very bright would mean it had a very thick filament and would last forever, not give off much light, and be way more expensive to run per watt than comparable lights.
SaturnineCult
It's 220v so nothing special in 100w bulb.
tomatoboy
It’s nothing special at 120 either.
SaturnineCult
I would think it might be bit rarer to have that sort of bulb with that high amperage, but not really familiar with 120v stuff.
tomatoboy
Negative. 100W bulbs were common here in 120V land. It’s double the amperage, but still only 0.83A.
westPAguy
121 is where the magic happens
Cronos51101
220, 221, whatever it takes...
MarkSoupial
something something planned obsolescence
Leetri
Lightbulbs are consumables, not planned obsolescence. It's very possible to make them last way longer, but then they either barely give off any light or they eat electricity like crazy.
Fillask
Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE.
MarkSoupial
Did you know the original nylon fabric did not rip, and that the reason nylon stockings rip is because the owner of the company wanted a "consumable" product, not a reliable product?
Leetri
And that's relevant how? As I said, you can get longer-lasting lightbulbs if you sacrifice efficiency. That lightbulb that lasted 100 years still works only because it barely outputs any light. If you want usable lights you either need to sacrifice duration or increase power consumption. Technology Connections has an entire video explaining why lightbulbs are the way they are.
MarkSoupial
It's relevant because, as you say, the rate of consumption is a choice. Yes a lightbulb has specific trade-offs made because there are physical laws that govern the universe, however, NONE of those limitations are a factor when they are made intentionally short using sup-standard material of manufacturing processes. Focusing on this specific bulb is meant to deflect away from the broader point, but as long as we're focusing specifically on light bulbs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
santawashere
Not in the case of incandescent lightbulbs. There's engineering tradeoffs between brightness, lifetime, and efficiency. Though commonly used as an example of planned obsolescence, the Phoebus Cartel 1000 hr lifetime design goal standardized brightness and was based on the best compromises at the time.
MarkSoupial
Why is there an array of incandescent lightbulb obsolescence defenders on imgur lmao. It's been 100 years, we know every excuse they gave was bullshit at this point.
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MarkSoupial
Oops, you forgot to actually talk about an actual video on your alt before making reference to the post
[deleted]
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cosinewave
I remember when LED bulbs were introduced and they were promoted as being able to last 12 years (in some cases longer). I bought some and they did indeed last that long or longer. The ones made today last about as long as the incandescent bulbs they replaced, often a lot less.
10001110101periodictablewithasantapieceofmind
Check out "The Lightbulb Conspiracy" movie, theyve been playing games like this since right after lightbulbs became a thing, and probably the only reason this one lasted that long is because it was made outside of the american/british cartels
RicochetSaw
Welcome to the lightbulb cartel rabbit hole
tilesmuggler
I work in the industry and this is simply not true. Incan last less than 2k hours and the cheapest LED you can find for sale are 5k. We consider failure when the bulb loses 30% of lumen output. So many last way beyond the posted life. Main cause of catastrophic LED bulb failure is bad circuits and using in enclosed fixtures (when not rated).
florpglorp
The common ones use fewer chips and drive them harder so they are cheaper to produce and last less time
bassmidnitro
I have one of those early ones with the heat sinks around the light element that I bought for a lamp in my first apartment 15 years ago. It just happens to be on right now as I type this.
Cronos51101
I have an LED bulb in a lamp with a timer from 2012. Weighs about 2 lbs. Runs all night, every night, still going strong.
ZiomalZParafii
Most of LED bulbs at my home has dozen of small LEDs on the PCB and usually one of them burn. I replace it and the bulb works again for another few months. They are not cooled properly and there is too much current pushed to them so they light brighter. If they would be properly powered, they would light for years.
Acc87
also the actual white light of home LED bulbs comes from phosphate layers converting blue/UV light. This layer does not last forever, it oxidises away and the bulb may turn ever more blue over time. I remember first gen "white" LEDs using a cluster of other primary LED colours instead, and the light they produces was very cold. My parents one of those decade old bulbs in their house still illuminating a stair well.
kinarism
Mattias Wendel on YouTube has taken a few apart after they failed and determined it is the circuit board that goes bad in these. Basically just bad manufacturing which is outweighed by people wanting new shiny things.
hippocampus
There is a great youtube video about the "Dubai bulbs". LED lightbulbs only sold in Dubai, they are basically overengineered so they last way longer (under less load per component). But you can't buy them anywhere else.
Wmcmwa
Sounds like bigclive?
hippocampus
you're right, thats the channel!
n0n53n53
The LEDs probably are still good it's the shitty PCBs and other electronics that shit the bed in less time than a good old incandescent
ponkoponko
Veritasium made a video about the Phoebus Cartel. https://youtu.be/j5v8D-alAKE?si=SQ4E8I0zqkX7AHZe
Derfboy
Manufactured obsolescence
drinkthederpentine
Dude for real. I cannot find a reliable LED brand to save my life. If you know one please post it
FoxyToast
Check out some history of the big three bulb makers Sylvania GE and Phillips (IIRC) they all got together because the first bulbs lasted so long it was driving them all out of business. They all decided to make them last a certain amount of time (planned obsolescence). They really drove this in all types of manufacturing. Source: I'm an engineer at one of these places.
docwilco
They actually introduced a maximum lifetime on bulbs, because they are much more energy efficient that way. Early powerplants would give away free bulbs to make sure they wouldn't get overloaded by the longer lasting but much less efficient bulbs. Planned obsolescence is indeed a thing, but not when it comes to lightbulbs. https://youtu.be/zb7Bs98KmnY
Loraxis
Please visit HR on friday as your annual review is overdue.
Shinikitty
There is a good video about a legit conspiracy of light bulb manufacturers limiting the lifespan of bulbs to drive up their profits. But the trick with the long living light bulbs is low wattage and continous use. The thermal cycling of a light bulb is the most damaging and usually the cause of a burn out.
santawashere
The engineering tradeoff in incandescent bulbs is brightness/efficiency and lifetime of the bulb. The Phoebus Cartel standardized brightness by designing for a lightbulb lifetime of 1000 hours because that was the best tradeoff. Even after the cartel's dissolution the standard stuck because it is a good one.
RoYoMi
Buy cheep,and buy often.
hakunamatatamotherfucker
They are designed to fail. I've modified a couple to not do that. They have about 8 years now and still in use day to day.
DarkSlayer54
Of the 8 lights in my living room, 5 of them have burnt out. All on the span of 1-2 years. At this point I'm treating it as a Battle Royale, let's see who wins
DuineSgith
If you're handy with a soldering iron there are a couple of vids on bigclivedotcom's YT channel that explain why and how to make those >
DuineSgith
bulbs last longer, although you do so by reducing the light output.
BrunoTheWulf
And you might get lucky and not even need a soldering iron. Just some small pliers and a magnifying glass.
whatIdontknowcouldfillawarehouse
Inside you look led bulb there are many small LEDs. When one led dies the bulb stops working. If you open the bulb up and remove the broken led, the rest works fine. Google it
PorneliusHubertII
Planned obsolescence. Gotta sell more bulbs.
TeamToasterNeverForget
The thing is that it’s really not profitable to make decent lightbulbs because it is very much possible but basically the largest manufacturers got together and decided to stop making them last..
tr26
I doubt there was any collusion, they probably all arrived at that approach individually. It’s been their MO forever
jsims281
Here's a decent video from veritesium about it https://youtu.be/j5v8D-alAKE?si=0XVkmGSA8Xazl5Iq
saturatedcottonballs
Well perhaps not direct collusion. But if a single company started to drastically reduced its product lifespan and no others followed, sales would plummet
TeamToasterNeverForget
I remember someone doing a yt vid on it once.. and I think I remember him mentioning an industry conference.. but it’s very distant in my memory so I don’t remember who
Pseudosim
A reminder that there actually was (and maybe still is) a straight up conspiracy to not make light bulbs too good.
Astramancer
I've still got one CFL bulb that still works. It survived a move across country and 3 more local moves. The others mostly only broke due to blunt force trauma.
Oblok
I had that problem but switched brands and specifically bought bulbs meant for dimmers. The more robust electronics have lasted well.
cosinewave
Good tip
fightfightfightlosewinfight
Which brand? (Might as well add to my anecdata)
ColdestOne
.
digitalaaronscustoms
Cree, Philips, & TCP are all very good brands that use high quality leds and electronics. Most of their products also have good warranties.
DarkSock
I've always had good experience with Philips
FettsMiata
.
Zephyrs
GE Reveal and the high end Philips are fine. Start swapping fixtures over to the canless "puck" lights though. The electronics are 1/?
Zephyrs
stored further away from the heat source (the LED), and they're bigger so they can use larger capacitors and often have full bridge 2/?
Zephyrs
rectifiers, meaning they flicker less and don't burn out from heat. The drop in replacement bulbs are bad because there's no way to 3/?
NotAPervert
.
reccenters
Cree last quite a while (over 4 years and counting)
Cookiepants11
.
digitalaaronscustoms
Cree is the industry standard in LEDs. Many other brands use Cree's LEDs in their own lamps. Would highly recommend Cree. Source: I work in the lighting industry.
azazyel
For some reason in Seattle they came to my apartment and gave me free ones.
spongerX
They did that in my country to encourage the switch to led. It was tied to the power bill account number. I have PV installed and for some reason as a result the power company has changed my account # about 4 times. I got free bulbs every time they changed my account #. The older LEDs are built so much better than the new ones
zimirken
Because it's cheaper than upgrading electrical infrastructure
fightfightfightlosewinfight
it's those damnable coastal elites forcing their good ideas on you.
Sprinx
Communists!!!! /s
thesameasyours
They also use about 1/5th the electricity
michaeloberg
1/10th, they are 6-9W where incandescents were 40-100
Sorrontis
But cost 10x the price
michaeloberg
Electricity costs keep going up (the for-profit US power companies being greedy, cost of production is going down) so the repayment period of LED gets shorter
amp99
That's not true for the last LED bulbs I bought. However, even if it was, the break-even time (when you make back the increased purchase cost with cheaper running cost) is short, especially in regions with expensive unit costs.
thesameasyours
are you counting for inflation from 1990 to now? probably not. An LED bulb is about $1, an incandescent is sometimes more than that now.
paintbullits
Where the fuck are you getting a bulb for a dollar? LEDs are never less than 10
RigoryMorty
Amazon, Ikea etc.
thesameasyours
https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Equivalent-Daylight-Non-Dimmable-Lifetime/dp/B07SQ8VGG8/
tr26
The emitter itself usually is fine, especially quality ones, it’s the rest cheap ass electronics that manufacturers put in there to ensure you have to replace them often.
IUsedToHaveUsernameOnce
I worked programming consumer electronics before, The added bonus is also that they get to use cheaper internals. Shaving off couple of cents from production costs can mean millions of dollars saved at scale AND you get repeat business. What an absolute win /s
saturatedcottonballs
I wish we had an organized agency that would regularly expose this sort of thing. I mean it's fine that the the lower cost items have cheaper parts. But it harms the companies that are building higher quality items, when its impossible for the avg person to spot the diff = sucky goods for all
saturatedcottonballs
After all the low quality sellers want to max their $$$ so their incentivised to make it hard to spot trading on the high quality maker. Projecting in the future, the proce ends up in the middle and the avg quality is at the near bottom (min acceptable quality to buyers)
Kalthramis
Really modern governments should be handling that. It benefits everyone to produce good,ong lasting quality for cheap. Except for fuck nuggets who can never have enough money, of course. But they should be getting removed, too....
saturatedcottonballs
Governments are really the only institution that could do it successfully.
Tryndamario
It's actually the opposite. Light bulb manufacturers have a private agency whose goal is to ensure light bulbs don't last too long. If a manufacturer is in violation of their regulation, there are fees that are issued. This is so one manufacturer can't make a forever bulb and drive everyone out of business.
kevbot5000
*Looks up from Gravity's Rainbow* That's still going on?
tr26
What is this private agency?
Einstein9073
It's not a conspiracy, my dude. There is a trade-off between brightness and bulb life. And the industry association has come to the agreement that 1000 hours is the appropriate lifetime for an incondescent Volt as the correct trade-off between brightness and long life
Infinias
Learn to read and than shut the fuck up with bs excuses that do nothing but boot licking on rich ppl. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
Nengex
That argument was sourced from a representative of one of the companies in the Phoebus Cartel. Do you really think they're incentivized to tell the truth here?
SURPRISEscience
How do they enforce this at all? If I had a couple million sitting around I'd just fucking do it and middle finger the collector. What legal grounds do they have to enforce a private fee? I'm just genuinely curious, btw. I totally believe this, but my three second Google didn't give me a satisfying answer.
tr26
They don't because the commenter is misleadingly referring to something from when light bulbs were brand new and was intended to keep companies from selling overly dim long-lasting bulbs. There is no agency like they describe today.
saturatedcottonballs
It does seem like collusion or trust forming behavior. But then again, we do have OPEC. Still, its anti consumer behavior and stifles innovation.
TheMayo16
Its basically just a gentlemans agreemant like "hey, we would all make alot more money if we stop making our bulbs last longer
Tarmaccian
That “agency” hasn’t existed in several decades, and it only regulated bulbs that were marked as having a standard life. Long-life bulbs could still be made and sold, but had to be labeled as being less bright. It was a PR campaign to promote electrification, with fear that dim (but long-lasting) bulbs would hurt interest in adopting the new “electricity” thing.
saturatedcottonballs
Ah, PR. The truth's most formidable corporate enemy