spwm1984
24712
764
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https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-air-force-member-has-died-after-setting-himself-on-fire-outside-the-israeli-embassy-in-d-c-1.6783487
Feb 26, 2024 4:44 PM
spwm1984
24712
764
30
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-air-force-member-has-died-after-setting-himself-on-fire-outside-the-israeli-embassy-in-d-c-1.6783487
zmanz
It wasjust time to..rage against the (killing) machine Called Israel
Neferium
Did the world rush to change after this? No? Oh.
rustyroo1
And not a damn thing will change except for the thoughts and prayers coming his way.
ironymus
jt42
Wouldn't he be at most "on standby" for the war?
DatWobbledoe
It depends on the flow of time, genoicde is the active extermination of a people. We have seen some documented to this day because it held such significance. Climate change however being such a broad and bold topic most people tend to understand it’s real and that our corporate overlords control the true flow of our time left on this planet and they don’t care about us. Burning yourself because you have to defend a genocide as a soldier. That speaks bounds that most people can not fathom, R.I.P
adam002232
Darwin Award
dixxienormus
Many a Trappist monk self immolated in protest of oppression to end their suffering and pain.
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Ikwilstroopwaffels
What??
ilyasInternetSmuggler
RIP, shame you lost your life fighting the US military industrial complex when it has fought to put 10s of millions of women and children in mass graves.
johnvilnis
And as much hurt and pain he has caused his family and friends, his death means nothing to the people killing each other in Gaza and Israel.
qwertdeep
It’s just the American version of the burning Tibetan man. He died to wake up the country to how the government is complicit in genocide. Hopefully the Biden administration take note of his protest
zmanz
It wasjust time to..rage against the (killing) machine Called Israel
Notamys
Second time today saying this: self immolation is heinous. suicide does nothing but amplify pain and remove one voice from the choir of dissidence. you're more trouble to oppressors alive than dead. the conductors of genocide want more dead bodies. dying gives them what they want.
qwertdeep
The current administrator is complicit in this genocide, this protest is meant to open people’s eyes up to it or at least force them to heed the rest of the world’s criticisms of their support of the genocide
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ThrockmortonTheSkateboarder
He set the wrong person on fire, in my opinion. I could easily think of 100 people more deserving. Greater impact, too. Sorry for sounding bitter and jaded.
Nuttsy
Yeah, but das der terr'ism.
IUpvoteEveryNicholasCageGIF
Imagine having that much guilt, that you have to set yourself on fire, to stop your commanders or whatever from ordering you in killing innocent people and do a protest at the same time, I mean seriously, how much more blood do they need to see that what they're doing is equivalent to Nazism, wrong, immoral, and will go down in history as one of the most heinous things to exist. What right proper dicks.
AyatollahBahloni
Painful way to go.
MunkyBanana
RIP Aaron Bushnell
ruint
RIP Aaron. Don't copy him.
Despite being blameless for Palestine, his family are now without a son.
qwertdeep
He’s a brave person who gave his life to protest against his own government’s support of a genocide. Thanks for sharing his words. RIP Aaron
SamuthNBS
Suddenly the media cares about male suicide, all it takes is attaching it to Palestine. That poor guy, I have no idea what was going through his mind but I hope he's at rest now.
SilentHowling
U.S. got spy planes everywhere. Dude probably saw some heinous shit and it broke him inside.
SamuthNBS
Mental health needs to be taken far more seriously. Too many people are using this to day "look, Israel bad!" Instead of "look, people need help"
qwertdeep
He did an extreme form of protest against the US government and the “ruling elite”. Too many people are making him die in vain by ignoring or distracting away from his attempted message. I bet the same people cream at the chance to talking about the Tibetan burning man’s protest against China
michaelfire
Don't disrespect the man and his sacrifice by trivializing it. Let's talk about the issue he raises, honor his sacrifice- inhumanity on both sides, but US pays for Israeli ops against Palestinians Mowing the grass, taking out the trash- https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/25/mowing-the-grass-and-taking-out-the-trash/ Amalekite genocide/war crimes trial https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/11/benjamin-netanyahu-amalek-israel-palestine-gaza-saul-samuel-old-testament/
Feralkyn
Good shout.
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Feralkyn
That is definitely an opinion and not fact.
DildoMussolini
Cool maybe if you keep repeating yourself to everyone it will magically become true
zmanz
It wasjust time to..rage against the (killing) machine ..
wargames
if you are on fire that is dangerous to a cop so he will pull a gun on you
jonReremy9669
your image is missing
somethingcleverlol
The guy wasnt a cop. embassy guard
wargames
that doesn't make things better.
somethingcleverlol
I mean it does. His job is to point a gun at anything that even remotely appears to be hostile. During situations like this people panic resort to whatever was drilled in their heads now to react. which for a guard is to point gun at him
wargames
if he is israeli be probably thought the guy on fire was a Palestinian child so just reacted like anyone in the IDF and just shooting.
IUpvoteEveryNicholasCageGIF
Uh.. You mean liberating them. Of course again, this goes without saying, this is sarcasm.
FnordGallop
Ooh, a Fancy Cop.
somethingcleverlol
not even close to a cop. Or US trained
Nuttsy
Hate to be asking the question, but...Israeli?
FnordGallop
Usually local security on the outside of embassies.
furtherclearthoughts
It is a somber and painful way to protest. Sorry, he couldn't find a different way.
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DanielAsparagus
That’s true if you have artillery. Not if it’s ideological.
AgainstMethod
That's great, but he wasn't trying to win a war. He was trying to stop one.
DerScheiss
Not a single mention of why he did it.
qwertdeep
It’s at the bottom of the image. It’s the bit that says “I will no longer be complicit in genocide”. In his statement he also takes a shot at the ruling elite. Contrary to what a lot of people here think, this is a protest against US complicity in the genocide especially since it coincides with the current administration blocking yet another immediate ceasefire resolution.
WorldMillipede
I believe that this is war and not genocide. For one thing, Hamas themselves have admitted losing 6000 fighters (implying the true losses are higher, because everyone downplays their own losses), while still claiming they have the ability and will to keep fighting (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-six-week-drive-hit-hamas-rafah-scale-back-war-2024-02-19/). If you'd like to debate this further, please present your arguments.
qwertdeep
My gut tells me that you’re going to argue in bad faith but let’s give it a go. Am I right to assume you’ve looked at South Africa’s genocide case against Israel, weighed the evidence and came to your belief that the evidence doesn’t indicate a genocide?
qwertdeep
I would also like to know which definition of genocide you are using before I proceed
qwertdeep
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf here’s South Africa application
WorldMillipede
Thanks for providing that link. The definition of genocide we can use here is: trying to destroy a group of people through killing and/or other means (e.g. destroying culture).
My overall opinion? The ICJ, who're far more knowledgeable than you or I, looked at this case and haven't concluded that Israel is committing genocide. They have ordered Israel to take steps to prevent it, which I support (https://apnews.com/article/icj-ruling-israel-gaza-genocide-3fa0908d995cc104e8ab4674f5ee75cc).
unfortunatelynotdeadyet
I’d like to hear Biden’s comments on this.
unfortunatelynotdeadyet
I’m curious why people disagree? He might be the only person who can genuinely stop this massacre. Netanyahu won’t while he’s getting US backing. If Biden speaks out, this could help end it, or at minimum pause for humanitarian aid. At the moment he’s doing nothing. This man gave his life. He deserves a response from the president.
qwertdeep
Biden’s administration is doing more than nothing. They’re actively helping it and vetoing any attempts at an immediate ceasefire. The only concession they’ve made is to put forward their own temporary ceasefire at Israel’s convenience. The soldier meant the us is complicit in the genocide when he said “I will no longer be complicit in the genocide”
RevolutionOnHerLips
I agree that he should, but it's a minefield and I don't think anyone would be surprised if he avoids tiptoeing through it, especially in an election year. You probably got downvoted because it sounds like a MAGA sort of thing to say, ie "but what about biden1?" etc.
Taxian
If you think Biden has that tight a level of control over Israeli policy, you're...wrong. Well, short of using his powers as commander-in-chief to launch a war against a sovereign state that has taken no violent action against the U.S.
Subsound
Idk, you're first response is whataboutbiden when someone dies you sound like the shitty divorced uncle at Thanksgiving.
unfortunatelynotdeadyet
Okay, not the way it was intended. I was coming from a place of genuine care and respect for his personal sacrifice. I feel the least he should hope for is a response from his commander in chief.
Subsound
Demanding things being done instantly isn't caring or respectful. It's been a couple of hours. Should he do it before or after the family is contacted?
IUpvoteEveryNicholasCageGIF
I think your first comment was downvoted because it didn't explain anything.
qwertdeep
It’s Imgur, any negative mention of Biden is automatically downvoted because there’s an election this year and any criticism of Biden is automatically support for Trump. It’s quite sad to see.
IUpvoteEveryNicholasCageGIF
I agree, but you have to consider as well that some of the people here tend to go far left because the right and far-right are just plain insane. Personally, Biden can go fuck himself for only telling israel take it down a notch in the bombing after the US supplied so many bombs to Nazi Israel, but Trump hopefully can get fisted by a gorilla because I know he's gonna be so much worse. https://youtu.be/K2zbN3AuHG8?si=2HrpkFoPUzFSBXnZ
qwertdeep
I hope you don’t think that democrats or Biden supporters are far-left. Anyone that espouses far left ideology here usually gets dismissed as a tankie, unfortunately we don’t have many far left views on Imgur. The current US administration is centre left at best, although they’re most likely centre right though. Trump can get fucked too.
somethingcleverlol
is there an instance in the past 100 years where self immolation helped some cause?
neagrigore
I don't think so. Jan Palach in Czechoslovakia, Liviu Babeș in Romania, it's a pity, I'm Romanian and I feel sorry for Babeș, he was too good for us. We didn't serve his memory right.
BakingMaybes
No but one guy made it onto a Rage Against the Machine album cover which is pretty cool I guess
HighMagosSquidward
https://www.cfr.org/blog/twe-remembers-thich-quang-ducs-self-immolation
BlackCatCasper
Someone in my city got fed up with Workers Compensation Board delaying their claim and burned themselves on the front steps of their office.
jrntn
Helped? Yes. But it seems like people have some sort of idea that it doesn't count unless it single-handedly changed the course of history. I don't see anyone asking this rhetorical question about the Tiananmen Square Massacre's tank man. What he did was pretty much equally dangerous, and it didn't end tyranny in China, but we universally consider it a heroic deed instead of falling over ourselves for an excuse to condemn it because it makes us uncomfortable.
DrBlackJack
Couldn't put it better myself! I don't know how much this will change, but I can respect the hell out of the conviction of man who put himself through that kind of agony to try and help. Already some outlets are setting the stage to sweep this under the rug by labeling him as mentally ill etc, but what I saw was a man who put a lot of thought and effort into the only way he could think of to force more people to acknowledge an ongoing tragedy some seem determined to pretend isn't happening.
Animorphs
It makes a really cool album cover
BlairT1
Killing in the name of…PR?
dcostanza1
Quang Duc basically took down the deim regime in Vietnam
FnordGallop
A self immolation was very important instigator in the Tunisian uprising during the Arab Spring.
AZRAELSBLADE
We do not recognize our souls until they are in pain?
Lassannn
There was a Vietnamese guy who did it to protest the Vietnam war. Didn't help.
BlairT1
Yeah, the war still war’d for a long bit after that
ahbrannon1
Actually it brought world wide attention to the plight of the Buddhist monks and the corruption of the Ngo Dinh Diem government, Quang Duc(81), also the photographer, Malcolm Browne, won a Pulitzer Prize. The act itself led to a drastic change in the policies of the United States. Large increase in military aid and the eventual assassination of Ngo Dinh.
NotTheDevilYouKnow
Fuck you Lassannn! And not just for the meme this time.
notyoubizness
Yes. Don't let the ignorant tell you otherwise. And I won't treat you like you can't think for yourself by warning you against it, or saying there's always a better way. You can make your own decisions.
Z0op
Yes! So put yourself ablaze to make a point!
Dunno man, i totally support the message and all, but its feels weirs to be encouraging this, and i dont think the message is about that ag all. The message is clear, the means of drawing attention to it… yknow they tried to revive the guy and he was only pronounced dead at the hospital? Horrible way to go man… but at least he got us talking i guess, for however long that lasts…
notyoubizness
Not encouraging. The truth can exist without implied encouragement.
ilovetraveler
Yes, but I also can't help thinking somebody with that much conviction and desire to help the world could've done the world more good being alive.
notyoubizness
Sure. Maybe. But that wasn't the question.
ameriki
Wasn't self-immolation but I think melting that little Vietnamese girl helped end the war.
Ikwilstroopwaffels
Yep. That photo basically nailed the coffin shut on Vietnam.
Mockingbirb
She survived though, fortunately
kingbudo101
remember, there is no cause worth killing yourself over and there is always some other method that will draw more attention to your issue than killing yourself. No one talked about the guy who lit himself on fire for climate change but the kids throwing soup at paintings for cimate change of world wide news coverage for weeks
Feralkyn
I mean... nobody would've probably ever heard of him. And with this act it drew huge additional attention to the war and sends the statement that there's Americans even in the military who are as against it as *possible.* I think your comment kinda diminishes what he did tbh.
GordonFreeman59
Counter point : Jan Palach
Mohareb
Yep.. The paint-throwing seems by far the most efficient of the two and no damage even happens. Just a heavy amount of attention
Admithetruth
said that about joe hill.......... fucking organize!
slinkiisu
The soup throwers are paid by oil companies
GoddessPurpleFrost
I agree. no cause is worth killing yourself over. There's other ways to deal with those who are causing problems for the world.
FajitaPrinceofAllMexicans
That's because that was the point of what the rich cunts that rule the media wanted. They wanted something that makes climate change activists to look douchey instead of determined.
ThailandExpress
All the soup throwers are doing is creating a negative backlash against themselves & environmental activists
ButteryBiscuitBass
Unfortunately true. Mr Bushnell will disappear from the news in a couple of days. RIP.
kingbudo101
you mean later tonight? because I doubt he will get any news coverage tomorrow
ButteryBiscuitBass
I think you're absolutely right.
bigfootbound
Well put.
Lazarillo
That's because people value fancy art.
jonReremy9669
it is timeless
michaelfire
you are disrespecting the man and his sacrifice by trivializing it. Distraction. Let's talk about the issue he raises, honor his sacrifice- inhumanity on both sides, but US pays for Israeli ops against Palestinians Mowing the grass, taking out the trash- https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/25/mowing-the-grass-and-taking-out-the-trash/ Amalekite genocide/war crimes trial https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/11/benjamin-netanyahu-amalek-israel-palestine-gaza-saul-samuel-old-testament/
DanielAsparagus
I think a lot of people would disagree with you. Those soup kids were assholes. This man had principles.
chiechien
Have the soup kids actually caused any real damage? Every instance I've heard of so far was them throwing food at art that is behind 3" of glass.
kingbudo101
Assholes that got world national news coverage for thier issue that lasted weeks vs a principled guy killing himself that will be forgotten by the world within 24hrs
DanielAsparagus
The bias on display is astonishing. “He got more clicks.”
UnluckyScarecrow
That's probably why the soup kids got more coverage. If I were a billionaire in charge of media, I'd pick news to air that makes my opponents look like stupid assholes too and ignore the rest
duhqueenmoki
Sorry but Thich Quang Duc's suicide in protest of the treatment of Buddhists in Viet Nam is one if the most recognized photos in history. It drew the entire world's attention and is still talked about today. I see your point but it's not entirely true.
OverpricedCrayon
Tunisian Mohamed Bouazizi self immolated and started the Arab Spring in 2010. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/mohamed-bouazizi-self-immolates-arab-spring
Forensickle
Do you know the 160 other people who have self imolated since then in protest? Because I care, and I follow the news, and I was shocked today when I found out as I can only think of a single other. Also, so far I have seen it only on Imgur, yet to appear on my left leaning Australian and European news feeds, and only had 1 US BuzzFeed type article has shown up, which I didn't read till after I saw it on Imgur as I assumed it was just clickbait
quadraspaz1
People know the photo. Many of them just because of rage against the machine. But very few of them know anything about the back story or consequences
duhqueenmoki
Yet it still changed the course of history and lead to Diem agreeing with the Buddhists' demands. The US even got involved after the incident and threatened Diem and his govt that we would no longer associate with them if they didn't give in to the Buddhists' demands for religious equality.
quadraspaz1
People know the photo. Many of them just because of rage against the machine. But very few of them know anything about the back story or consequences
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AgainstMethod
That was arguably the most impact he could have had and it really did make a difference.
Fishinlaw
Nope...it did not at all.
duhqueenmoki
It did change things. Maybe not on a grand scale, but immediately after the incident Diem met with his ministers to discuss what to do about the Buddhist crisis. The US also told Diem if he didn't agree to the Buddhists demands for religious equality we would no longer support or associate with his govt after this incident. Quang Duc killed himself June 11. Diem signed the Buddhists' agreement June 16th, something he was basically pressured into because of what happened.
Fishinlaw
All this was in place regardless of the immolation.
duhqueenmoki
Not exactly. Diem largely believed the crisis with Buddhists was already over, and had scheduled a meeting with them that day thinking it would just be a meeting congratulating him on his efforts. When the incident happened, he immediately cancelled this meeting and met with his ministers instead. He hadn't even planned on accepting the Buddhists demands (he thought it was unnecessary) until this happened.
DanielAsparagus
Oh… you’re an idiot.
Anotherwhitedude
I agree, but I also remember the guys that killed themselves flying into the world trade center. Not their names, but i did finally learn what we had done to Afghanistan in the past. Maybe it has to do with scale and not suicide?
NotSomoneElse68
It wasn't their suicide that we remember. It was the murders.
kingbudo101
Them killing themselves was just the tool they used to achieve their goal of killing people. Act of killing themselves was irrelevant it was the destruction they wanted
Feralkyn
It was both
Feralkyn
(For them. nobody remembers them though)
DanielAsparagus
All of you are ignoring the religious significance of this act. Is it reasonable? No. Is it recognized through time and tradition? It is in Hindu and Buddhist cultures. Not everyone shares wearer values
auspiciouslizards
There’s another part of this that people are ignoring. The man screamed “Free Palestine” as he burned. Our media is not admitting that our service member felt such immense guilt for our complicity in this genocide that he was willing to die in one of the most horrific ways possible to bring attention to it
Hotjoe1991
Nudists don't share wearer values
Feralkyn
Did the guy say it was for religious reasons?
DanielAsparagus
Western.
BrickSprickly
He's not Buddhist. He got radicalized by online content.
DanielAsparagus
Self Immolation is considered non violent resistance and virtuous in Buddhism. Terrorists are radicalized. This guy just called out colonization.
BrickSprickly
Lol no he didn't and he's not a Buddhist. He was radicalized.
nclu
Unfortunately there is also a history of vulnerable people within a movement being pressured by leadership to engage in this form of protest. So far I haven't seen or heard any evidence of that in this instance.
Nuttsy
It's 2024, everything is online content.
BrickSprickly
Surely there'd be more of this behavior then and they're not just an outlier, yeah?
Nuttsy
In the last decade, we've got 4 in the US, 1 in Australia, 1 in New Zealand, 1 in Poland, and...more apparently several in Russia. So anyway, how many outliers does it have to be before it's just weirdos playing with gas?
BrickSprickly
I guess we'll see how effective it was here shortly, yeah?
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Feralkyn
It wasn't necessarily either one, it was just protest.
DanielAsparagus
Can you tell me what mental illness it was? Or what mental illness these people suffer from?
auspiciouslizards
I’d like to know a well. My understanding is this was an extreme act of protest and I don’t understand how that equates to mental illness
leperoutcastunclean
I am under the impression, having been in the mental health system a lot, that there are no circumstances under which suicide is not 1/?
leperoutcastunclean
considered to be an unreasonable act performed by a mentally ill person. 2/2
DanielAsparagus
“Every extreme act that I don’t understand is mental illness.” I even went looking for academic support for this argument. Self immolation doesn’t conform to current models of political radicalization, nor does it meet the literal definition of radicalization. Self harm isn’t universally indicative of mental illness.
Feralkyn
Yeah, I think someone can recognize that their life is so extremely unimportant compared to mass suffering that their death might be the most impactful, potent statement that can be made, without it being "mental illness." Even if the person is "mentally ill" somehow... it doesn't make that point wrong. It doesn't make EVERYTHING someone does "wrong" somehow.
auspiciouslizards
Yep sounds about right. The only reasoning that makes sense to me is using the term mental illness as a smoking gun to justify institutionalizing people who disagree with the status quo