TheN8
55464
1163
29
Jul 5, 2024 4:58 AM
TheN8
55464
1163
29
randomguy365
This is good, right? As a non-UKer I'm not fully up on the politics.
Cilvaa
Hello, London police? I'd like to report a brutal murder
codenameRadical
That awkward moment when, after driving the car into a tree on purpose, nobody wants to let you drive more cars.
paulhollywood9
The truth is, it's not so much Labour made a compelling case to vote for them or anything, it's just that people were fed up with Tories and wanted to teach them a lesson.
spartanliam115
lib dems did better than i expected so thats good
CitizenPrime
People outside of the UK need to understand that Tories actually did more to bring Labour to power than Labour did
Youhavinagiraffe
Lettuce woman lost her seat. She won with nearly 70% of the vote in 2019 and just 25% in this election. A 43.4 drop! She has another UK politics record now. Well done Truss!
IOftenDeleteCommentsCauseISuckAtTyping
I always forget that American political spectrum colors are reversed. Almost had a stroke seeing the colors before reading anything.
TheN8
Yeah, it's always weird seeing the fascists in red on US TV.
Oldiewankenobie1
Lets hope the Us follows suit...
Sm9yCg
They lost more than two thirds of their seats. They were eviscerated.
sentfromplanetearth
Is this a good thing? Pls explain.
TheN8
Labour are the party who want to make sure everyone has access to food, shelter, healthcare and jobs. The Conservatives want brown children to drown in the English Channel.
ChloeRed
and reform are the ones who say they shouldn't drown in the channel, but should be used for target practise instead...
KleptoKea
Your turn, Americans. Don't fuck yourselves and the Free World over by re-electing your rapist of a Nazi to lead you again.
JavaCofe
But wait, there's more!
In the tory heartland that I live in, that was formerly Boris's constituency - WE'RE NOW RED!
Tyrann01
All former PM's constituencies of the last government turned red. Brilliant!
YouMayFindThisMildlyInteresting
By just 600 votes, and meanwhile Reform took ~6500 off the Tories. If anything you've moved even more right wing.
[deleted]
[deleted]
RollUpNShutUp
To be fair, current Labour is just Torie-lite. Only good news is that Rees-Mog lost his seat to sleep in.
ByronGetronfree
Didn’t he lose to some guy in a Mexican wrestler mask?
TheNihilistsParadoxicalWashingMachine
Definitely not the only good news. Liz "Lettuce" Truss was also ejected.
GlobalImageServiceCat
Don't become complacent! Rupert Murdoch has proven that he can turn the Conservative's fortune within one election cycle.
AoShin
Does he even need to? Labour have said they're not really going to change anything
Rulweylan
Murdoch supported Sunak until the absolute last second. His rag literally changed sides on wednesday this week.
qwertdeep
Starmer has been writing articles for the Sun since 2021. https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-10-05/keir-starmer-rules-out-reversing-decision-to-cancel-remaining-hs2-project
They even had him at their live conference a few weeks back when he made that comment singling out Bangladeshi illegals even though they make up less than 5% of the illegal immigrant population.
Frogblender
It was hilarious watching the crying and begging on the front page running up to the election. They couldn't bear being on the losing team so they left.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Get shit on, Tories. Fuck all conservatives.
cunninglinguist85
Liz truss losing was amazing
MrSatisify
retrogood
I didn't even realise she was still around. Usually when a leader has such a pathetic in-party defeat, they leave politics.
cunninglinguist85
swil22
Good news - but look at the numbers. A few years ago Labour were calling for PR. If that was in place those racist supporters of the Reform party would have a lot more seats.
RPCharImages
Nah, they wouldnt. They got 15% of the total vote, which netted them 4 seats. Labour got 30+% and got 200+ seats. Vote share stats mean nothing, what matters is how many votes they got *in* a constituency. If 1% of voters in 100 constituencies voted for them, they would still lose, because 99% of the voters in 100 constituencies didnt vote for them. The people who voted labour wouldnt have had reform as their second or third choice & labour still would have won
SilverNicktail
True, but so would the Lib Dems, the Greens, etc. If we had PR we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.
Quessir
Sinn Fein now being the fifth largest political party in the UK is just hilarious.
mrputter
As a Canadian who lived through the years when a Québecois separatist party was our Official "Loyal" Opposition: *shrug*.
zutty
This isn't how I wanted a Labour government. Starmer will claim that it was shift to the right wot won it, but the SNP scandals in Scotland and Reform splitting the right-wing vote are also big factors.
qwertdeep
The Labour leadership not undermining campaigning would’ve also helped. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html
mward1984
Added little side note: Reform only got 4 seats. 9 less than predicted from exit polls. But the real punchline is that Nigel Farage was one of them. So now the fucking piece of human excrement has to fucking turn up to work. He can't just jet about, make racist comments and visit trump when he likes. He's actually got to turn up to Parliament, and hold MP Surgeries. The dumb motherfucker has no idea how much time he's now got to spend doing shit, and for no gain or real power.
astrospanner
His track record on the EU Fisheries Committe (he was on this for 3 years) was to turn up to one meeting. One. Out of 42. He's a lazy publicity seeking grifter.
qwertdeep
An easy £80k a year for him though.
Youhavinagiraffe
He's going to immediately fuck-off to the US to campaign for Trump
fearghul
Sadly, no he doesnt. There is nothing that actually forces an MP to turn up or do any work...they get the pay either way.
makesense
Possibly, but don't they have ways for his constituents to then possibly remove him from office?
fearghul
There are some mechanisms for recall petitions, but they're not based on simply failing to turn up and work, they require suspension from the house or criminal conviction to trigger the option to have a petition.
makesense
Ugh. I like to complain about how easy it can be to recall an office holder in the states (you can in most places without the person doing anything wrong), but it would also suck if you couldn't remove them for not showing up to work.
fearghul
Yeah, though even this much of an option didn't exist until 2015, you technically cant even quit as an MP. You can only get out by accepting a crown appointment that makes you ineligible to remain an MP...we've just got a giant sack full of stupid contradictory traditions and (legally unenforceable) conventions instead of an actual system of government.
Tyrann01
Does he have to? Mad Nads didn't turn up for a whole year.
derekjohn
He can also be challenged in Parliament. He'll have to justify his nonsense in a place full of clued-up people who hate his guts.
mward1984
Especially the Tories since there's enough evidence to suggest that he's largely the architecht behind a lot of what's happened last night with him draining the far right vote they've been shamelessly courting for the last four years.
Kittenman15
And more, OP... 410 seats so far for Labour. Just staggering.
Elkarlo77
Tony Blair got 1997 418 seats. It's a second Bloodbath for the Tories.
YouMayFindThisMildlyInteresting
Ironically Labour's vote share is *barely* higher than 2019, when they took their worst beating since 1935.
qwertdeep
The people were ready to vote for Labour in 2017 and 2019, Starmer and the rest of the senior Labour figures just undermined those elections so that the Blairites could seize control. We could’ve had the Tories out a while ago if it wasn’t for Starmer and his cronies
Deepfire007
Thanks Brits showing the rest of the world that voting for fascists is NOT the thing to do!
TheN8
Oh honey. Our mouthbreathers still voted for fascists, they just couldn't pick which one to vote for in enough numbers. Ironically. Labour only did so well BECAUSE there was more than 1 right-wing party in opposition.
YouMayFindThisMildlyInteresting
Labours absolute vote count is actually down since the drubbing they took in 2019, thanks to the softer turnout. 33% of 60% vs 32% of 67%.
Tyrann01
To be fair, that's often how Labour lose, multiple centre-left/left parties eating into each other. Now the shoe is on the other foot.
Fabulously
It’s 410 now
DinosaursCameFromSpace
But sadly Reform got seats
SilverNicktail
Take some solace in the DUP losing just as many.
NoAssumedUserName
They won in my town, fucking wankers.
squishybaker
5 in total it's shit but their vote count is the sign FPTP is not fit for purpose.
RPCharImages
No more than what UKIP have had previously. I'd be surprised if they dont lose them again in the next general election
Cilvaa
Not enough to have any real power
Tyrann01
"Yet" is the problem. This Russia problem needs to be nipped, now.
DigiT00l
Only like 4, so that isn't too bad
Lundaland
PR would have got them 14, so, small mercies.
FrogBotherer
Worryingly they came *third* by popular vote. Hopefully that's a blip and not a sign the right wing is about to swing sharply to the right.
Ruderali
Immigration numbers need to come down in the short term for peoples quality of life to raise. Reform is the only party offering that
GlobalImageServiceCat
Once these snakes got into the parliament, they have more venue to draw attention to their "policy" and sustain their movement with government money. They are going to stay and can only get more powerful from now on. You can check out the One Nation Party in Australia - they would never have a chance to gain any seat until this smartass PM Malcolm Turnbull thought it was a good idea to call a Double Dissolution.
RPCharImages
Nah. I mean, sure they gained 15% of the voters, but what has that actually translated into? 4 seats. They have less seats than the Independents. The thing you have to remember is their support is so spread out that they dont have a power base & thats the reason we wont see a steady sweeping effect like in the US. Cos unlike in the US, gerrymandering of constituencies is illegal here, so they can split up more liberal areas & connect up all their supporters to outweigh the opposition unfairly
raptorlight3000
Reform are about as far from my politics as you can get but it doesn't sit well with me that 3.5 million people are consistently voting for their ilk (UKIP and brexit party etc) without their voice being represented in our parliament. I'm for fptp in the commons and PR in a reformed HoL as second chamber.
Lundaland
I know. When I was bemoaning their entry to Parliament, a friend reminded me of exactly that. The people who voted for them need to be heard and any legitimate grievances dealt with. Not their anti-trans bullshit though. They can do one there.
SpinyUK
it's good and bad, there plenty of close calls, eg Poole and Hendon - Labour won by less than 20 votes on both of those, but Reform got 4000+ votes, which were almost certainly by people that would have voted Tory, who would have won if Reform hadnt entered a candidate
mikeymikec
The tories and RHM have been courting the far-right for at least a decade so it should come as no surprise.
neuronicle
You can still throw milk shakes and punch them. In fact you're pretty much obliged to, I'd say.
Lundaland
Thank you. X. I did tear down some of their shitty posters from a bridge on my way home this week. I kind of feel that only a milkshake can help me now.
TheN8
The worst bit is that they would've won a lot more seats with PR. They split the Tory voter base pretty much down the middle in a LOT of places. The Labour win is a great positive, but the lurch to the far-right is extremely worrying.
SilverNicktail
I suspect a lot of their vote this time around is Tory voters not wanting to vote Tory, but also buying into the lies about Labour somehow being radical leftists. So many people don't actually pay attention to the parties they're voting for, no matter how many times Reform make it clear they are fascists.
Melonfish
Agreed. Rather horrific popular vote numbers for them, there appears to be some right arseholes living amongst us.
flounder35
3.5 million arseholes or so
profknowles1
Even worse is that Nigel Farage got a seat. Now we'll never hear the end of him.
Kallas267
Yeah I was keeping an eye on him this year, since he's spent the last two decades shopping around for a safe seat, sad he finally found one 🙁 Cunt needs a milkshake delivery every time he leaves his house.
DannyJammy
Even if they all voted Tories, they still would have lost. Glorious day for the UK and democracy.
Lundaland
And farage is now in the Commons. A formal platform to spout his vile drivel.
I feel like the joy of Rees-Mogg losing his seat is tainted by the rise of the far right.
DimYSmuggio
Ah, but the fate of Rees Mogg is sweet indeed.
Lundaland
Who is going sprawl across the front benches like an entitled p***k now?
terrifyingspacemonkeys
Farage
Lundaland
I like to see him try…
ongabonga
Congrats UK
SecretlyASquirrel
Please hold your applause until the end of the show, we do not know what tom fuckery we are in for yet.
ongabonga
okay, but meanwhile: toot!
WaterUnderTheRocketAppliances
ongabonga
toot!
FoxPesdassi
Do not TOOT it!
jherazob
ps238principal
I listen to a podcast called Trashfuture that covers UK politics a lot. Is there any way that Labour can (or would even try) to reverse all the upper class tax cuts and the privatization of nearly everything that the Tories have been doing for the past several decades?
khora
There is a lot to gain just from enforcing the tax laws.
RawSuger
they arent even going to try. labour is currently center right, they will provide no solutions and either tories will win ext or fascists
qwertdeep
They could with the overwhelming majority but they won’t. Starmer is a corporate shill and plans to privatise further. His manifesto even detailed privatising the NHS further. This election is a superficial victory because Starmer’s Labour are just Tory-lites and will damage the left of the Labour Party for years to come.
ElbowDeepInAHeadlessHorseman
No. Labor has shifted further right. They're Tories with less austerity. They'll stop cutting services, but won't do much to repair what's already been cut.
MissSiesta
Hm...like the dems in the US
ElbowDeepInAHeadlessHorseman
Not really, no, not at all actually. Dems are a mix of liberal & progressive, Legislation from the party as a whole bounces around between centrist and left of centrist based on how the horse trading shakes out. But stuff like student debt relief, prescription price caps, etc, are definitely on the progressive / leftist side of the house.
Hal1918
Perhaps consider Keir being aware debt at 105% of GDP versus 6x before Covid. Trade down with EU, Ukraine, aging sick population, the gilts meltdown under Truss, UK water companies near bankrupt, Universities near bankrupt. Hopefully RR/Starmer can balance economy versus making *tangible* improvements to daily life in UK. So likely Churchill's "nothing but blood, sweat and tears" than Kindergarten Trussonomics or Farage's Pied Piper. FYI Orban in Moscow while holding EU presidency. WTF ¡
BigRobbo
That is a good questions without an easy answer. The short term is no. He can reverse changes a little but for the most part things are the way they are. Its the long term that count's with a good term or two he can probably introduce large changes that redirect money towards public services and claw back some of the industries that have been privatised but its not an easy change.
SilverNicktail
They can, and they absolutely will not. Starmer is a Tory, one of the Blairites who ruined the party. He's purged the left and invited in the far right. At best, he will be David Cameron Mk. II, which will disillusion the youth vote and open the door for true fascism in the form of Farage, whom the media has promoted relentlessly at every possible turn.
CatoTiger
They could, but they wont, because the rich people funding the Labour party would drop their support.
upsidedownalarmclock
Rich people don’t fund the Labour Party
mikeymikec
"Pls JK Rowling, we'll do anything, even pander to your pathetic bigotry!"
HandoB4Javert
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/labour-conservative-party-donations-2023-spending-analysis/
idiotsonfire
Good, then Labour can make them just not be rich anymore by implementing a 15% wealth tax on anyone with >$10m. Then do corpos after.
idiotsonfire
Bam, instantly the richest country in all of European history and second wealthiest after the US.
isszuSparkleBandit
Keir wouldn't do that. He's almost conservative
KerryCoder
The one thing they won't do is trans rights. Labour is almost as transphobic as the Conservatives, only the Lib Dems are allies and they didn't even beat the Conservatives.
HandoB4Javert
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c033dpqmnrgo Lords would have to retire at 80 under Labour plans - that's got to help.
The Labour leader had initially vowed to abolish the House of Lords and replace it with an elected second chamber.
But that has been watered down to a long-term ambition. Labour's manifesto now calls for a consultation on replacing the House of Lords with a "more representative" body.
SilverNicktail
They promised everything and abandoned those promises almost as soon as they were made. This isn't getting done either. They've duped the country into re-electing the Tories under another name.
NoNameFred
"abolish the House of Lords and replace it with an elected second chamber" is how you end up with the absolute Shit-Show that is US politics. If your two chambers aren't generated through DIFFERENT means, then you don't really have two chambers — you effectively have one chamber in two locations. It needs reform, yes, but one of the purposes of the House of Lords is to have people who aren't going to be 'Populist', and will face the consequences of the votes even if the Government changes.
NoNameFred
(I suppose one way of differing the means would be to have HoL as 'Proportional Representation', while keeping HoC as 'First Past the Post', or vice-versa? But, it seems too often like a way for career politicians to put each other in a nice cushy job; at least the "merit lords" like Sir Alan Sugar are there as Experts, and/or people whose success is based more directly on the country's success — so long as they are willing to listen to others when matters are outside their areas of expertise)
RPCharImages
I mean, in theory? Yes. The question really is *will* they. I would be surprised if they dont reverse some tax cuts as Starmer is trying to pull the party away from the Blaire Eras policies whilst not allowing the cesspool Corbyn brought in to gain power to run roughshod
TheN8
It's a difficult one to answer. Keir Starmer is such a centrist wanker that I doubt he would do much of his own volition, and he stripped a lot of the dissenting voices from the party, so it will be interesting to see how things pan out.
oaberbyamd
This comment hurts, but is true
Keru
Yeah, people nee to remember that Keir Starmer does whatever his corporate handlers fucking tell him to do. He's the perfect Empty Suit.
debilitatedbychoicehelp
Myeah, you have other analysts who say that yes he comes from the corporate world in some respects but is also a renowned pragmatist. I think he also knows he needs two terms to undo some of damage done by Tories so let's see... I hope he sticks with his "country first" sentiment, subtext that the party is not the priority... Time will tell.
SteelKnight
5 years of being almost as morally bad as the aristo Tory cunts while just being a bit more competent tbh, at least my local labour MP is decent but I just can't see starmer's labour pushing for real positive change
dundeeisdrunk
I feel like Tory aristocunts works better. Just my opinion fwiw
TheN8
I'm quite fond of Cuntservative Elites myself, but to each their own.
qwertdeep
My local labour MP isn’t even from my local area. Just another parachuted MP that will care more about party politics instead of the people that voted him in.
SteelKnight
Ours is not a local, in fact she's a red princess, she realistically got the job because her dad was a union leader, but she's fiercely workers rights and fiercely trans rights which is sadly a bit of a rarity in starmer's labour.
qwertdeep
I won’t complain about someone who is fiercely pro worker and trans rights, especially if they somehow were missed out in Starmer’s purge of the left.
CaramelCougar
I remember a lot of people saying similar things about Biden at the time, and he's shocked everyone with what he's been doing. Labour haven't been in power for over 12 years, I want to at least give them a chance before assuming they'll just be another corporate shill party.
Jyx123
They've been a corporate shill party since the last time they reached such heights, under Blair in the late 90s.
I'm not saying they never could claw their way back, but I am saying that Keir seems very much like not the person to do so.
debilitatedbychoicehelp
Agree! Honestly, much is better than the Tories (barring of course crap like Reform UK).
qwertdeep
If you read the Labour and Tory manifesto you’ll see that there isn’t much of a difference in policy, only the language they use. One of the biggest differences is illegal immigration though, Starmer’s main objection to the Rwanda plan was that it was ineffective, he’ll strengthen borders and make sure illegals that come from Bangladesh will go back (his own words paraphrased from the Sun conference). He also plans to privatise the NHS further as well are detailed in the manifesto.He also wants/
qwertdeep
To reduce legal migration as detailed in the manifesto and basically has the same foreign and defence policy as the Tories. He’s already proven himself to be a corporate shill in the last 5 years and shown his authoritarian tendencies when he backed the policies powers bill to reduce the rights of protesters.
benreilly73
Could they? Yes. Will they? That gets harder. Despite the fact that it's desperately needed raising taxes is still very unpopular in the UK rn
SoberAndBored
In theory, yes. In reality I doubt it. Britain doesn't have a written constitution, and no Parliament is bound by any decisions made by previous Parliaments, but the current Labour Party is too centrist to do things like that.
RPCharImages
Thats, not entirely true. Parliament is bound by its own previous decisions, because each act is in and of itself not only law, but also forms part of that unwritten constitution. They can undo Acts put in place by previous governments, but it requires a vote
TheWiseAlaundo
They have basically promised not to. They went hard courting disaffected tories and moved to the right and actively purged and abandoned ground on the left and it cos them a few seats from either their left flank or their left flank splitting the vote and losing on the right.
gesel
In a normal election this is what you'd expect to win: the party that appeals to the broadest demographic. That's how democracy should work. What's weird is when that doesn't happen, as during the brexit phase or in France or in the US, that an extremist view dominates doesn't match the opinion curve something is driving the system off equilibrium. What force is found in each case leaning on the scale? Russia. Why did Russia stop spending on the UK? Post-brexit it's 3rd world and meaningless.
TheWiseAlaundo
You can't have what appeals to the broadest majority of the electorate in first past the post unless everyone knows who the tactical vote is and acts on that knowledge. This election was mostly about getting rid of the tories and the voter turn out was low so its worrying what that will lead to. Labours majority is wide but shallow and my point about seats being lost via vote splitting and being taken from the left was more to outline that labour has moved away from its base which it will need.
gesel
Good analysis, thanks for the clarification. I can see your point.
req4adream99
Damn. Labor doesn’t even need to form a coalition.
daguq
Labour doesn't even have to have Labour values.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
These aren’t even the final results - as of now we have 412 seats
stickyfiddle
So far ahead they could form a coalition with the Lib Dem’s and have the Liv Dems vote against everything they put up and *still* have a majority
HandoB4Javert
wisher1977
As an American, is this good or bad? Sorry but I know very little about UK politics.
RightToUpvote
Tories getting kicked out is good. But this new government is almost certainly going to maintain the status quo while offering nothing of substance to improve normal people's lives. I really fear for the next election in 2029...
KingORedLions
Labour didn't even 'win', they just didn't lose 20% of their voters.
RPCharImages
Yeah, but they gained about 15% of that 20%? Thats something like an additional 200 seats in total
DaJoW
No, they gained about 2%. This time they got 34% of the vote for a landslide victory, last time 32% in a terrible defeat.
RPCharImages
I mean they snapped up about 15% of what the Conservatives lost, on top of the other 18%
KingORedLions
No, not at all - you're looking at seats but that isn't what we're talking about. Yes, Labour gained seats, but they gained almost *no new voters*. They took a small amount of voteshare from the SNP and lost some to the Greens, resulting in a net gain of about 2%.
The Conservatives lost because they lost 20% of their voters and split a huge amount of their share with Reform, allowing Labour to claim those seats.
rainehdaze
Not losing all your voters in a FPTP election is how you win it. Remember, they increased their voteshare in 1951 over 1950… and lost.
Youhavinagiraffe
The Tories lost more than double the number of seats they managed to hold on to!
IAmAngry
Once again a brown man is moved away of his house by a white man
aguacatedeldiablo
I think this joke *could have* landed, but you're on the wrong side of Poe's Law. Doubly so, since he's a conservative - it comes off as either too focused on race or that you're doing the cynical conservative thing where they ape what they perceive as liberal positions to get what they want.
Or, I misread and you actually hold one of those positions, in which case I'm the one on the wrong side of Poe's Law, here.
LordLumpy
Oh fuck off. No one cares what colour his skin is, he's a shit leader, a shitcunt human, a unelected wank, and a two faced pile of snot.
Brunitski
Oh I’m sure he’ll be comfortable in one of his mansions. He has 4 of them after all.
stopitcharlesgetoutofmyhead
We don't do those kind of politics here mate.
TheSpaceCroissant
They didn't even need a platform, that's how people are mad against tories in the UK...
Youhavinagiraffe
I did a bit of canvassing for Labour is some Labour-Conservative marginals and "I've always voted Conservative but they need to be taught a lesson for what they've done these last few years" came up all the time
orangatuan
Thank you for your work in getting the Tories out. Now please could you get Labour out.
TheExpatBrit
In favour of???
orangatuan
None of the others have had a go, so there is no real telling if they would be any better, or just more of the same, and that is the point. Also this image shows that there is a problem with our system. That isn't in labours of tories interest to resolve. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717304444626272286/1259205895754088448/image.png?ex=668ad660&is=668984e0&hm=ea04e3e6f4f4cd1de78e0113ff3c57d6e107656a45db032820eefd198d73de51&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=868&height=645
myotherusernameismyotherusername
"We're not those cunts" is a valid platform.
KrondorMocker
Not quite working in the US though...
myotherusernameismyotherusername
We're built different (incorrectly).
79withabullet
Why is that?
Asking for a friend
TheSpaceCroissant
I'd advise you watch John Oliver on that topic, basically the labor party is getting a shitload of support mainly from a strong opposition to the way tories have governed the UK for the past decade.
The labor party didn't really have to campaign or anything, and their current leader has as the charisma an oyster.
Halfwise
I wish that would work in the US, but gerrymandering has fucked everything.
aRabidGerbil
The UK has some massive problems with unequal representation, the Tories just lost that badly
Trustrup
If people actually voted, it wouldn’t be as bad, the problem is the extremely low voter turnout. Which of course is brought on by not getting time off to vote, anti-voter laws, required registration etc. But really if every person under 35 voted, the landscape would look vastly different.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Don't forget voter suppression is real and huge in the US.
Anxietyofthesocial
Yup. Too many people here in the US have the "my vote doesn't change anything" mindset or the "I could care less" one. Which is crazy because pretty much our entire lives revolves around politics.
TheSpaceCroissant
This has been a strong belief in France too. The latest elections have proven we've been wrong: the massive turnout in our current elections has favored the far right more than the left.
SoftKleenex
I'm unfamiliar with UK politics, how to the parties compare to American ones? Which is closest to which party? Broadly speaking
Toby1066
As someone else said, US politics is basically world politics on steroids. But very broadly speaking, Conservatives = Republicans, Labour = Republicans Lite, Lib Dem, Green, SNP = Democrats.
Tyrann01
Very very wrong on almost all counts.
DigiT00l
Tories are closest to Democrats, Labour is also closest to Democrats, but only because the USA has no left wing
levyathyn
Bear in mind when discussing world politics that our Democrats--considered the 'radical left' by modern GOP conservatives--are closest to Reaganite era Republicans. Our 'far left' candidates are much more moderate, and lean centrist.
Rulweylan
Tories are about where the centrist democrats are. Labour are about where the left wing of the democrats would like to go. Reform are about where the Republicans are (they got 4 seats and are broadly considered racist nutters)
redwesley
Everything is opposite. Blue is conservative, red is moderate liberal and hamburgers eat people. Don't even get my started on Australia where the conservative party are called the Liberals.
Serenitis
No, no. I think the Aussies have it right here. Everywhere in the world except the US 'liberal' means 'right-wing free market at all costs dickhead'.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
That's also what it means in the USA, but the republicans are so far-right that liberal sounds like left-wing.
Rulweylan
Except in the UK, where it's the Liberal democrats, a fairly socially progressive centrist party (or in US terms, far left)
Xero999
Your republican are our reforms your liberals are our conservatives. Our labour party is bernie and AOC. lib de are your extremely lefties and our green part is so far left the American would consider them pure evil lefty nazis.
CatoTiger
There’s no direct comparison, but the Conservative party (Tories) are general right wing, though nowhere near as right as Repub. They’re actually closer to Dems. Labour are Left. No-one is really sure where the Liberal Democrats sit. The Reform Party are extreme right and the Green Party are extreme left.
RawSuger
absolutely not true. tories are just as rightwing as republicans if not more. they arent as conservative (read: religious nutjobs) .
julesthelee
Well that's kind of the thing isn't it? It's the religious nutjobs that make the party super conservative. Anti-trans, anti-gay, pro life, all that religious shit makes the American conservatives more conservative. What else is there, fiscal conservative? That's basically every other politician that gets elected in the states.
RawSuger
right and left are economic categories. and there is a massive difference between republicans and democrats (or tory vs new labour) when it comes to equality, albeit both want the rich to have most, repubs want the poor the have nothing.
ElTanTan
Lib Dems are pretty center left. Sensible fiscal policies with progressive social policies.
mikeymikec
Keir Starmer's Labour definitely is not "left" (they've spent their entire time in this election writing love notes to right-wing voters!). It's centre-left at best, so closer to US Dems (who IMO at best are centre-right). Tories are definitely right and wondering why they're losing votes so they keep courting the far-right and taking notes from the GQP (e.g. voter ID, transphobia).
shorey66
Compared to American politics they definitely are left
mikeymikec
Compared to the GQP everyone but the most infamous leaders in history are "The Far Left" :) Neither observation helps much in the bigger (global) picture.
Lark2370
To be fair, the US is about as right wing as they come
RawSuger
almost 1:1 republicans and democrats vs tories and new labour. just without forced birthers and progunners. otherwise same shit.
flounder35
Reform is Britian's equivilent of MAGA
shorey66
And the slimy shit at the head is a great mate of drump
qwertdeep
Reform has the Republican rhetoric without the fan base. The Conservatives have very similar politics to the democrats. Labour is basically Tory-lite now so they’re also quite similar to the democrats. The former left wing of the Labour Party could’ve been compared to the progressives of the dems (although Corbyn and co would’ve been way too extreme for the dems) before Starmer purged them from the party.
qwertdeep
The parties left of Labour, such as Green and SNP, would be banned in “the land of the free” and purged during the McCarthyism period.
Thisisabigmistake
American parties are so skewed to the right, the rest of the world will appear far left
whiskinputwarbles
That's a strong claim in a world with the likes of Modi, Netanhayu, and Orban.
CheetoDustedMalcontent
Damn, that's like three countries
Dolenmorgul
France, the Netherlands, Italy, there, 3 more
ThisNameUnavailable
North Korea, China, Russia, Belarus, Venezuela, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Eritrea, Zimbabwe, Laos, Vietnam, Sudan, Equatorial Guinea, Chad, Cambodia, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Algeria, Brunei, Kazakhstan, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Angola, Cameroon, Djibouti
qwertdeep
As a side note, US supplies weapons to the majority of the authoritarian dictators across the world: https://theintercept.com/2023/05/11/united-states-foreign-weapons-sales/ this went against Biden’s previous campaign pledges but the behaviour fits in well with both U.S. parties.
TurdBurglar3000
What's that list supposed to be about? Not even half of these are run by right-wing parties / leaders.
itsallaboutthecones
whiskinputwarbles
Oh there's plenty more. We should be more concerned about the fact that the right wing's rise isn't just a US issue.
geoffreyfourmyle
Very broadly, the Conservatives are akin to the modern Republicans: corporate profit over everything else, not much in the way of rational or scientific approaches, and at the cutting edge of 19th century social progress.
Labour is similar to the most centrist Democrats: in both countries, nobody loves them, but the nation is heartedly sick of the right-wing shits that have failed in their duties so miserably.
itsallaboutthecones
No, no, no, they haven't failed. They served their "duties" perfectly. The issue is that they take their assignments from anyone other than the people. So it just LOOKS like they are failing. Common misconception, I assure you.
geoffreyfourmyle
AoShin
PourMeAPuppersPlease
It's rubbish but good in this instance, don't want those racist extreme right wing reform uk wankers having more seats
SpotlightStealer
Messed up by proper competition is way better than messed up by the Senate (originally instituted to preserve slavery)
DigiT00l
It's one of the better ones in theory, but might be better if s district got more representatives
YiminRong
The seat is won by whoever gets the most votes in the riding. In a multiparty situation, it can often be the case that the number of seats doesn't match the number of votes. However, Britain doesn't use an electoral voting system, so it's not all-or-nothing like it is with most US states. You can have an admin division with a mix of left, center, and right. While not perfect, it can be argued that the system is more democratic.
Keeperofthe7keys
You also literally cannot vote for who is prime minister so I don't really see how that's more democratic.
mercyPandaRunner
If you vote for a national parliament, those numbers are not "more democratic", regardless of any stretching of the term.
mercyPandaRunner
Reform coming in a bit more than a third of Labour in terms of votes, yet Labour earns 96 times the seats in parliament? That's straight up disfunctional.
Not that i wish for the bastards of Reform to get a single seat. But that's not "more democratic" in a national election no matter the mental gymnastics.
Wireplay
They don't vote for the national parliament, they vote for local parliament and which ever party has the most local seats gets the national seat. It isn't a vote for prime minster, it's a vote for local mps and who ever has the most becomes the prime minster
mercyPandaRunner
I wasn't talking about the PM. We don't vote for the chancellor here neither. But your explanation doesn't make it better. It just means the parliament is simply not representative of the peoples vote. Add that to the house of lords being straight up a number of MPs that inherit their seat by virtue of their father not using a condom. The british political system is just crazy and i am actually not surprised that it is this disfunctional.
Wireplay
How so, parliament is representative of the vote, locally upwards. The popular vote gets the MP, those MPs make up parliament, the majority gets the executive. The king supervises 👑.
The lord's is a mess, true.
Wireplay
Also witness a peaceful transfer of power, imagine that .........
mercyPandaRunner
That's a bare minimum, not a point of braggery.
RPCharImages
But not for the reasons you think & is much more representative than the US system. The vote share represents them *gaining* new votes, while the conservatives majority has ended up spreading out throughout the parties. The Seats share also includes seats they already had before the election.
GreatElkOfTheNorth
It still FPTP, only on a smaller level. If the party with 34% of the votes gets 64% of the seats, that is not representative of the will of the voters. It is good for the UK, but still not really democratic.
TheN8
If we'd had PR at this election, the far-right cunts of Reform UK would've had a massive mandate.
mercyPandaRunner
I think that's a bad argument. What if Reform gets a disproportional mandate the next election? Then some 33% Reform gets 64% of the seats? I guess that's the moment the people who now defend it will start calling for a proportional system.
Skunge
Even with more reform nazis in parliament a more proportional system would protect us from another conservative majority for a long time. I think it would be worth it.
TheN8
Except we would have ended up with some hellish Tory/Reform power-sharing agreement. We have to remember that Labour didn't get any additional voter share this time round, the far-right wankers just couldn't decide which fascist to vote for.