starkart
191809
11739
482
I learned that the text is a oversimplification of the event, but still im very happy this post raised awareness. Anyhow, renewable energy is the future and the sooner we have it, the sooner the future is here.
Energy: http://qz.com/680661/germany-had-so-much-renewable-energy-on-sunday-that-it-had-to-pay-people-to-use-electricity/
Frontpage Edit:
Check this comment tread by @jamesn86 with loads of useful information: http://imgur.com/gallery/ujpVT/comment/668953973
@JohnFuckingDenver I work in the oil fields and I full support clean energy. I'll just be homeless when it takes over
Replay: @insertpunnynicknamehere We will all be homeless if it doesn't.
Overmyheadthejokegoes
Someone send this to Venezuela
Jarkley
As a German energy market scientist, I have to say, almost every statement on this comment section is simply wrong.
chooseday
This is great and all, but it's full of shit unfortunately.
SocoFox
It's only clean at the front door. But back where those rare-earth elements are mined and processed... it's a dirty business.
0x1CEB00DA
there was a plan for a HVDC Super Grid called DESERTEC to power all of Europe
red squares = solar area needed
iHATEcAPSlOCK
They never "paid citizens" for consuming energy. The prices for electrical power went negative at the producer's emporiums for a short time.
iPez
In mexico it is ilegal to have a solar panel not endorced by the gob.
Mikamitcha
Tell me if I am wrong, but I am fairly certain that last image is an Onion article.
jackbos
"Anomalously perfect days for green energy" ≠ "full-time global energy replacement ready to go"
nova73infort
Until it is more financially viable most will not make the jump. To sink 10's of thousands which may take 2decades to recoup? Hopefully soon
TheMrGUnit
And after 2 decades, even current technology PV panels will have degraded to very low outputs. The tech just isn't ready.
marsgoose
Having a surplus on the grid or in fact any production is a very bad thing.
marsgoose
Can you imagine a car company producing so many cars they have to give them away or pay for them to be disposed in order to save money.
marsgoose
The company would go down and CEO would be drawn and quartered.
Robin53
And here in Nepal, we've been enduring almost about 12hrs of blackouts everyday for past decade.
TheMrGUnit
People in the US would literally shit themselves if this happened regularly. They don't realize the sacrifice for stability.
mrbochiangles
West Texas gets paid to use energy when wind farms overperform, but Texas is less fun to claim as progressive than Germany I guess
Soraptors
Really? I'm still waiting for my check, then.
Cynical9Cyanide
If you have 1% of days where power is so cheap you give it away, then 99% where it's super expensive, you've FUCKED UP!, not done well.
wibla
Stupid norwegian checking in, we've been at nearly 100% renewable for the last 100+ years, get with the program :P
NeroSphere
100 years at renewable? I find this hard to believe, but I've been to Norway, that unspoiled landscape and hot people make me think maybe...
wibla
Hydro power, it's been a thing here since before electricity was cool.
eekee
You going to kill 90% of the population of Britain to make it possible for Brits to heat their homes on renewable energy, then?
Scotchshine
96% of the power in Norway is from waterplants (or whatever it's called)
DisenchantingJovian
And the population density of Norway is? Hydro is swell and all but it isn't a solution for 90% of the world's population.
coitophobic
Hydroelectricity
eekee
Loads of rivers, tiny *tiny* *TINY* population.
tozemarreco
yay portugal!
JhericFury
Even though it's not quite that simple, we really could be using way more renewables than we do. (Also, nuclear)
Bugofbelgium
Nuclear supplemented with renewals is the only realistic way forward.
Rognin
And not Photo-voltaic PLEASE!
JhericFury
Preach it
YarTheBug
Believe it or not, this happens quite often in parts of Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Kansas. Probably in other parts of the US as well.
DukeofKMS
Mh, Nebraska. 1mio inhabitants on the area 2/3 of germany. Wich is the 4th biggest economy of the world. I salute you! (Sorry)
HalfManHalfGin
I'm sure Oklahoma benefits from the wind sweeping down the plain
unreal669
Never be big in Australia, our leaders are nore interested in making their own hot air instead of using it for energy production.
mbcoalson
Australia is a really interesting example. Energy prices so damn high that going to solar+storage is nearly economical now.
SexyTimesAtRidgemontHigh
Australia has the highest pollution per capita in the world, however, it is entirely negligible due to your population size and land mass.
showdownhero
computer says no https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita
Stockyhome
The government ran rebates on solar installations and the service providers pay for excess power fed back into the grid. Also less stress1/2
Stockyhome
on the supply during summer aircon use. Solar is really huge in Australia. Government does a shitload of rebates for energy smart stuff
CarbyAu
Renting, landlords suck. We are soon to own a unit, on the ground floor. I think new aircons in houses should have solar supplement by law.
Daealis
Unless you live in a place where the summer is two months long and only a little snowy, like Finland. And it's below freezing 5mo a year.
Necromartian
Kaunis mutta vähäluminen
villlllle
Finland actually produces a good amount of it's electricity through renewables. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Finland
VideoNotes
Solar panels are still good option even for winter based locations. http://www.skyfireenergy.com/solar-myth-debunked-the-snow-showdown/
Daealis
That's pretty damn impressive actually. Less than 2% drop in efficiency with all angles. Was that tiny amount of snow all they had?
VideoNotes
Haha no. The study was done over 3years Edmonton gets an average of 123.5cm of snow a year, 52 days of snow.
Aerolfoz
Hydroelectric power though, great for rivers and mountains? Norway can't be that different from Finland. 99% renewable here.
Daealis
I'm uncertain if there's any rivers that could be utilized, I think all the big ones are already dammed. Or if tidal generators are viable.
Aerolfoz
Not really no. Shame.
Aerolfoz
Though, apparently more than 30% of the Norwegian hydroelectric power comes from tiny local river stuff. Like without dams even.
ColdToiletWaterSplash
Serious question, would the method of capturing energy used by said countries be efficient for a country the size of the US?
DavidBrooker
A little yes, a little no. There's a lot of room to add more renewables in the US, but it's unlikely to make up the bulk of production.
habi816
3) Nuclear, but it faces public concern and private opposition.
ColdToiletWaterSplash
I figured, the demand of energy in our (US) densely populated areas would never be met with the capture of wind/solar energy
flakeOfDoom
It's also a matter of transport. You may be able to meet NYC's energy demands with a fuckton of solar panels in the American Southwest...
flakeOfDoom
...but good luck getting it from A to B without losing horrific amounts of it.
habi816
2) On location and weather. The US has huge supplies of cheap natural gas from its shale. The only source that could be cheaper per unit is
habi816
1) To a degree no. It would be expensivein both at up and maintenence as panels only last about 20 years. Wind and thermal are heavily
letthestalkingbegin
First fact, renewable energy like coal?
CuteAnimalsAndGiraffesWhatCouldGoWrong
Yeah, that was a little misleading. They couldn't shut down the coal plants, so with the influx of renewables they had a surplus.
letthestalkingbegin
Thank you for the answer. I just thaught it made it sound like germany's electricity was produced almost entirely from renewable ... 1/2
letthestalkingbegin
which is pretty far from the truth. I'm all for renewable sources of energy nonetheless, I just don't like misleading information! 2/2
starkart
It's not really misleading ... well it misleaded me as well...
rando84
The German approach to shut down all their nuclear plants while still building coal plants is hypocritical & based on bad science.
Homusubi
Don't even get me started on Japan.
MLGsamantha
well at least their fear of nuclear is actually based on something.
Homusubi
It isn't. Statistically speaking it is likely that more people died from evacuating Fukushima than would've from radiation had they stayed.
vampiremario
Coal is the main sorce of energy for the world shutting it down would be stupid
Homusubi
...and letting everything die isn't stupid, is that what you're saying?
rando84
It should be phased out before nuclear: carbon intensity aside, just look at how many deaths & respiratory diseases coal emissions cause.
Tikityler
Considering Nuclear has fewer deaths(including gathering materials), is more cost effective, and better environmentally than most methods...
AGrammeIsBetterThanADamn
Fun fact: Coal power plants release more uncontained radiation per unit electricity than nuclear power plants. And it's not even close.
whereamandwhatamidoinghere
but coal plants make less energy compared to Nuclear plants.
AGrammeIsBetterThanADamn
Not in aggregate, not in America, and that's not even close either. Besides, "per unit electricity" already takes care of that
DrSparken
concentrated in the rare cases where it does have a significant leak. 3/3
DrSparken
Not really? Plenty of countries are primarily coal-powered, very few nuclear. And again, the comparison isn't even close - even including 1/
DavidBrooker
A 'plant' is a pretty dumb unit, seeing as they're scalable. You can have a 500MW nuclear plant, or a 4000MW coal plant, or vice versa.
AGrammeIsBetterThanADamn
...and let's for a minute assume that a smaller coal plant makes more contained radiation than a larger nuclear plant -- isn't that worse?
DrSparken
the nuclear plant disasters of history, coal powerplants release a LOT more radiation per energy generated. Nuclear just has it a bit more2/
FabulousBadass
There is already a lot of solar in places that can utilize it efficiently, Socal, New Mexico. It is rather expensive.
MG42CHEF
You mean the solar farms that are going bankrupt because they do not provide enough energy? The only way to go is nuclear power.
ImnotliketheOtters
Yeah i'm for nuclear. Under the same conditions as all other energy sources. Which means all plants must have insurance and waste 1/2
ImnotliketheOtters
and deconstruction costs must be paid by the operator. The only problem is, under these conditions nuclear is unrentable as fuck. 2/2
rando84
People talk about using sunny/windy interior regions in the US without realizing the massive transmission infrastructure upgrades required.
FabulousBadass
Forget transmisssion, generate at point of use. Microgeneration is the only way to go.
gilbykillz
Except Germany experiences terrible winters and has huge problems trying to create enough energy for everyone in the winter. Look it up.
fvckyes
Wouldn't that be solved by simply having more batteries? Stock up on power in the summer, ride it out all winter. Energy-hibernation!
TheMrGUnit
That amount of battery storage would be monumental. To say this is impossible is an understatement, plus there's no infrastructure for this.
fvckyes
True, but you'd be shocked at how fast this technology is improving. Source: I work for the US Department of Energy.
VideoNotes
Do you have studies/links you mind sharing? I love reading about new tech!
Angaram
Sometimes we even have snow. But normally it's really windy all the time, we just lack the capability to store energy.
batolemaeus
Bullshit. The only people with problems are the french, whose nuclear plants get in trouble during bad winters due to coolant loss...
uzerok
How about providing some links? I've been living there for 26 years. Winters aren't hard and in most regions there are no power problems.
DukeofKMS
Yeah! I remeber times when we had to cut down trees for firewood.We -in the midst of europe- are in severe trouble to get energy. Send help!
VideoNotes
"Terrible winters" lol. Check this for information on solar panels efficiency with snow http://www.skyfireenergy.com/solar-myth-debunked-the
greggor
To be fair, the loss due to snow needs to be considered when switching to 100% renewables. It's not as important for grid-connected solar.
VideoNotes
Loss due to snow impacts solar the most, there are others options to increase stability. Geothermal, hydro, wind.
VideoNotes
Also biomass, passive kinetic energy collection
VideoNotes
Also that link is for a study done on the impact snow has on solar panels. Set up in a winter city.
furioustomato
Wind and solar are "unreliables". They don't provide consistent energy. Electricity storage to meet demand is damn difficult too.
mbcoalson
Intermittent, not unreliable. And there are a number of ways to have high renewable penetration with minimal energy storage. Check nrel.gov
letsthinkaboitthis
So let's just try to figure something out on the run when oil hits $20 a gallon? Great plan...
ManMashine
true. They should rather use spirals instead of windmills. Because these spirals would always spin due to the warm air rising up.
Rokobex
It would be reliable if we would have the necesary gloabl infrastructure for it, which we sadly don't at the moment.
0x1CEB00DA
you can pump water up into a reservoir to store energy, you are already using this: Raccoon Mountain Pumped-Storage Plant (Tennessee)
verotica
Tidal power is really good too in areas with really high tide differences
flakeOfDoom
There's also sometimes issues of transport. In Germany, you can make tons of energy in the north, but need it in the south...
Bugofbelgium
Would help if you weren't daft enough to phase out the nuclear plants.
SwagathaChristie
That is literally the entire reason for energy storage though. Storage combats intermittency. Designing systems around that concept works.
furioustomato
Electricity is not easy to store. In fact, it's a fucking expensive nightmare.
PlagueDoctorInDaHouse
noone said it's "easy". with technologies such as SMES, pumped-storage hydroelectricity etc it works very well, though.
SwagathaChristie
Don't store electricity, store energy then. Batteries, hydrogen, flywheels, thermal, HEP, capacitors. It works.
xenocyde1224
Efficiency becomes a big problem going from electricity to "potential energy", be it thermo, mechanical, etc.
imgurfacepalm
Technology isnt efficient enough right now to be used on a grand scale.
LexOnFyr
A big help to combat the large demand for electricity is to build extremely efficient buildings so that they /use/ less energy.
greggor
Demand is going to skyrocket in coming years with the advent of the electric car. We need to increase renewable capacity in the energy grid.
letthestalkingbegin
Hydropower is quiet reliable and can adapt to the demand. You store the potential energy instead and transform it when needed.
MLGsamantha
You can only use hydropower in very specific spots. Natural reservoirs are basically gorges, and people don't usually build cities near em
letthestalkingbegin
I had Switzerland in mind, we produce 60% of our electricity from dams and rivers. The topography helps a lot though.
SlippySlappy
It works where water is abundant, but in the Western US the banked (stored) water is often more valuable than the electricity generated
letthestalkingbegin
Also the run-of-the-river option is interesting but you are dependant on the season.
letthestalkingbegin
If the amount of water is the problem maybe pumped-storage is a solution? Anyways I don't know the situation in the US.
Tikityler
Not really feasible here. Nuclear is a better option honestly.
SlippySlappy
They use pumped-storage in California to move massive amounts of water from the North (San Fran area) to the Southern cities (LA, San Diego)
Wuz314159
So is Nuclear Power when you have a meltdown.
flakeOfDoom
Cloudy days are more common than meltdowns, though.
furioustomato
I'm actually thinking of geothermal as a reliable source. Plenty of heat in the earth to last a few billion years.
dimm1
Which is basically never. Realistically speaking.
Wuz314159
Umm.... http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/06/pennsylvania_nuclear_power_rea.html
furioustomato
Since when is a malfunction the same as a meltdown?
Wuz314159
Excuse my hyperbole.... Still shut down.
CreepyMcCreep
Umm.... malfunction in one unit - not a meltdown - other units supplied full power - nice try.
ringringringringringbananaphone
Compared to the amount of energy it produces, nuclear accidents, especially severe ones are very few.
ringringringringringbananaphone
Sovacool et al. (2016) published a comparative paper of accidents, fatalities and costs for energy technologies if anyone is interested.
00110001001001111010000110110110011
Why is this point so hard for people to understand. Producing oil, coal and gas kills more people a year than has died from nuclear EVER.
SpaceballsTheComment
But what about the radioactive waste disposal? This is a much bigger issue, at least here in Europe.
Bugofbelgium
I find it hilarious that Fukushima is hyped as a nuclear disaster yet 0 died from it while 15000 died in the tsunami and aren't mentioned.
TheWolfofUsersub
Coal and oil is unreliable as well, because we're quickly running out. Inconsistent energy > no energy
furioustomato
There's enough coal in the world to last centuries. There's enough oil now through fracking to last nearly as long. But I mean geothermal.
TheWolfofUsersub
Do you have any source? Not being rude, but lots of websites say there's only a hundred something years left
TheWolfofUsersub
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/3/21/1076665/-23-Years-Worth-of-Coal-Left
furioustomato
1000 years according to this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2015/06/25/how-much-oil-does-the-world-have-left/#8f54b535dc5e
TheWolfofUsersub
http://sustainabletechnologyforum.com/how-much-coal-is-left_21367.html
CreepyMcCreep
The "Oh Gods We're Running Out Of Oil" club has been around for ~150 years I'd say.
WEAREGRID
Yeah and in 150 years the earth has gotten warmer by 4 degrees. We will be dead in another 150.
phoenixsphinx
funny as a german #1 is bullshit. YOu have no idea how high the prices for energy are here.
serenityfast
Right, and in fact, they can turn off wind turbines if there's too much power anyway.
KuistiPanu
Yeah, trading prices are different from customer prices.
Myoldaccountgotdeleted
Man i knew it, too good to be true.
NeroSphere
This is from a YT channel called FullyCharged. Check out the last episode for details. Not saying it's true, but that's where it's all from.
whackyduckling
That's because we Austrians use the free energy to pump water up a mountain and sell you the electricity later for good money. :-)
xmaneds
Was fu(e)r einer lustige Entchen!
fission3
Thank you for shining some light on the truth!
JeremyBeadlesHands
ah, the joy of building loads of renewables without thinking about the billions needed for infrastructure to transport said energy
Usernamesarejustlabels
Efficiently high I bet
SepticStorm
that would be because it is so inconsistant. 1 day of exceeding capacity does not hide the fact that most days they are FAR below.
prodmerc
Literally $0.40...
GreenLanternMD
Government can do almost anything as long as it hides the true cost through various regulations and subsidies.
perlcat
For a while, anyway. Eventually all the shit they swept under the rug comes out.
Atalung
Not to mention they weren't really paid new money, more it was like a small tax break on the high taxes
[deleted]
[deleted]
phoenixsphinx
germans pay special tax for solar and win energy that otgher people build. So my neighbours have houses with solar panels. They make their
phoenixsphinx
own electricity. Because this means electricity companies don't make money with them, people without panels have to pay tax on their
phoenixsphinx
electricity to compensate for those making their own
[deleted]
[deleted]
scruffymarcher
I actually read that since they closed their nuclear plants they increased their carbon emissions the following year to make up the diff
mathematicalmole
I've heard Switzerland buys energy at 3 cents per KWh in Germany, whereas it costs 5 cents to produce locally.
phoenixsphinx
we shill out cheap energy to the neighbour countries while the prices hike for the germans. Alas it gets you inventive conserving energy
phoenixsphinx
I mean more like saving energy. I saved so much last year my seller did not believe my numbers and called me cheater, send someone to check
phoenixsphinx
begrudgingly paid me back. fuckers
Rakugabi
I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that wind turbines have mechanisms to dissociate their rotor from their generator, if needed.
ISendDeckPics
https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/average-electricity-prices-kwh.html
letthestalkingbegin
This one is more recent, electricity is much cheaper: http://www.statista.com/statistics/263492/electricity-prices-in-selected-countries/
ISendDeckPics
Yet they don't have Denmark on the list, which has the most expensive electricity.
letthestalkingbegin
True but more countries, plus I thought it was about germany. The tendency didn't change anyway.
ISendDeckPics
True :)
mustang19rasco
Thanks to closing nuclear plants, energy prices have significantly increased the past few years.
LongoloidFartExplosion
Good job too. Germany is famous for it's Tsunami's.
Belyiah
the goverment aid for renewable ended, hence the prices are now more accurate to real market prices.
phoenixsphinx
nope they have increased because the market was deregulated and citizens haver to pay green energy taxes to fund solar and windpower
RamblingIke
I´m not against closing all nuclear plants, but it surely was good that they closed the old ones, they had some troublesome flaws already
ManMashine
BULLSHIT! The energy companies would have increased the prices ANYWAY. Which is exactly what they have been doing the past 15-20 years.
kuemmel
Please remember how they tried to tell us that we are going to suffer blackouts because of the missing plants.
Bugofbelgium
How significantly? I pay 101 a month for my electricity in Belgium (2 people in my household.)
buffalosnowcrash
Can you really compare these prices accurately? It's going to cost less to heat/cool a small apartment over a house, and other examples.
LvAllen
Also, lattitude.
AGrammeIsBetterThanADamn
We already have a unit for this -- kilowatt hours. Let's use it, hmm?
Bugofbelgium
I don't have AC and heat my house with gas, so it's purely appliance consumption.
boywiththehappypenis
Do you think this decision is ever likely to be reversed? (It came as a reaction to what happened in Fukushima didn't it?)
batolemaeus
It did not happen as a reaction to Fukushima. It won't reverse. The person who you responded to is talking out of his ass, too.
Mykron
No, German public opinion has a strong anti-nuclear tendency. I don't see any chance for this to change in the forseeable future.
Flyndaran
Sad that ignorant paranoia causes so much anti-science in the world; GMO, salt, fat, fetal stem cell, fission, aspartame, etc.
Yaxism
Yes. But it was being before. Kind of like all of politics
boywiththehappypenis
It seems a strange/reactive decision for Germany to take though, given how efficient nuclear energy is in comparison to coal. Kind of 1/2
boywiththehappypenis
like stepping back to the beginning of the industrial age. 2/2
NE0Green
It is 1/2 true. Prices were (-) at the "stock exchange" (Strombörse). Citizens don't benefit from those prizes. Plus tax+surcharge.
Malkiot
Yeah, we have fixed prices.
ManMashine
Yeah besides the energy surplus is being sold to neighbor countries who then feed it through their powerlines. That's a common practice.
NRubric
Sold? We give it away for free.
FridayNightRamen
I am always so pleased when people on the internet spread the facts.
dudfey
Bananas are an excellent source of potassium
McBook
Pineapples are a kind of berry
miffet
.....Take your +1 and get out.
defaultentry
Mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell.
Flyndaran
Of eukaryotes. They don't even exist in prokaryotic life.
harava
+1 for using the proper plural!
ThrowMamaFromTheTrain
Chlorophyll...more like Bore-o-phyll!
BewareTheIceSpiders
Read your own links, though. Solar & wind output in Germany did NOT exceed demand that day. And it was Solar, Wind, Hydro AND biomass.
Jarkley
Hydro and biomass are only marginal amounts of produced energy on a sunny/windy day.
ArchangelArtist
No, not even remotely true.
Mikamitcha
As a fellow skeptic of this article, the last screenshot is an onion article.
Mikamitcha
http://www.theonion.com/article/scientists-politely-remind-world-that-clean-energy-36086
insegrevious
Still more reputable than Fox MSN CNN Huff
tehviolator
Lol you shouldnt be getting downvoted, the onion has a very definite notoriety for hitting the nail on the head
kerchew
Some light reading will throw wrenches in most renewables. Especially when they are "free energy" but rely heavily on government credits.
Anonawesome
The fact that these sensationalist headlines from some ridiculously obscure site got to the FP makes me ashamed of imgur.
starkart
It might be because Imgurians believe in clean energy and hope that we can make it happen. Also to get more exposure for it
BewareTheIceSpiders
Still better than all the attention-grabbing whinning wall of texts.
BewareTheIceSpiders
For what that matters, here in Quebec, 100% of the grid's electricity comes from Hydro, everyday...
Rognin
Wrong, Hydro has wind powered farms scattered everywhere on the country side. Source: I worked at EM-1, EM-1-A, Brisay and LA-1.
BewareTheIceSpiders
Yes, it was an oversimplification. Wind is almost a rounding error though, less than 1% according to HQ's website.
Rognin
Hey, if I have a 1% chance to sleep with Demi Moore, it's a 1% chance I'll take. Point is, 1% counts.
BewareTheIceSpiders
Of all the people in the world you pick Demi Moore? She's 53 man.
ThePsychoanalyst
Used to live in Montreal, i regret the desicion of leaving every fucking single day of my life
BerwynBrewyn
Western US states are starting to dismantle a lot of dams because dams are dam terrible for existing river ecosystems.
twozerooz
I think global warming is probably more concerning that an isolated ecosystem
GwannBhish
Not isolated at all salmon and trout spawn in the rivers here. When dams get in their way they are more likely to die on the way.
twozerooz
Yeah still nowhere near as concerning as global warming
BewareTheIceSpiders
Its a lesser evil kind of thing. Depends what you replace dams with. Better damns than coal or gaz, but I'ld take modern nuclear over dams.
DavidBrooker
The James Bay Project is probably the most impressive megaproject undertaken in Canada. Quebec is very fortunate to be in that situation.
DisenchantingJovian
And the population density of Quebec is? Hydro is swell and all but it isn't a solution for 90% of the world's population.
BewareTheIceSpiders
We are lucky with our water resources. It wasnt bragging as much as showing that reaching 100% renewable for grid power is not unheard of.
DisenchantingJovian
Agreed. However Quebec hasn't made anywhere near the level of effort or sacrifices Germany has made to achieve said grid.
DavidBrooker
I'm not sure what you're responding to, but it doesn't seem to be my post. I think I called Quebec fortunate to be in its situation, no?
DisenchantingJovian
I'm from Quebec and simply dislike when people bring our renewable energy up. It seems like bragging when in fact, we're simply lucky.
AGrammeIsBetterThanADamn
Fortunate? You think major public works projects happen by chance?
DavidBrooker
It's odd: the two replies to that comment reject that the project was anything but luck, and had anything to do with luck, respectively. 1/n
DavidBrooker
that could never be accomplished in a country without the human and technological and financial resources of a G7 nation like Canada. 5/5
DavidBrooker
oilsands in Alberta. It's simultaneously a geological gift that Albertans are lucky to have, and a technological-industrial project 4/n
DavidBrooker
but it was realized through what I believe I called "the most impressive megaproject undertaken in Canada". I would compare it to the 3/n
DavidBrooker
I said neither of those things, to be clear. Certain geography made it possible, the project couldn't have ever happened in Saudi Arabia 2/n
Rognin
Also, Germany now burns more lignite than it even did. This renewable energy is just a nice project to look good. Nuclear is the future.
Jarkley
The big amount coal burned is a result of the EU's fail in emission trading system. This is not intended but a result of the market situatio
Jarkley
Why should a state spend such hell of money for greenwashing anyway (as you claim)?
beezzarro
Germany and other European countries are actually in the process of scaling down their nuclear plants
Rognin
And scaling up coal plants. How ironic is that to cut low carbon energy sources for higher ones?
beezzarro
read about Energiewende. They are unplugging nuclear in favour of renewable
drewbixcube127
It's because dollar per dollar coal makes way more energy. Renewables are not a base load or peaking systems and can't keep up with demand.
Rognin
They are closing perfectly working nuclear plants for coal. If your plant is already built, where's the savings in tearing it down?
Soraptors
Because countries don't care about carbon. The care about meeting the demands of their people.
drewbixcube127
Not France. France is going for 100% nuclear and is twice as "green" as Germany.
beezzarro
no not France. They have like 58 nuclear reactors at this point. I read that they were in talks to scale back following Fukushima
Cheveu
It synergizes quite well with the numerous dams which use night over production to lift water up, effectively storing energy for later
Cheveu
It's Interesting to note tho that the nuclear facilities are aging and current ecologist weeaboos are lobbying hard to have plants shut down
Valawyn
This isn't how you use weeaboo.
CobraFlyingAnA10DroppingSpidersBecauseScrewYou
The thing I've always wondered, is that isn't technically nuclear power not renewable? Because eventually, we will run out of 1/2
Soraptors
Eventually, but the energy density of uranium means we will have relatively clean energy for generations.
CobraFlyingAnA10DroppingSpidersBecauseScrewYou
Radioactive material to power them. That said though, I'm still fully for nuclear power.
Rognin
For Fission yes, in about a couple hundred million years. For fusion, probably as long as the sun lives.
Soraptors
Yes, but the heat generated by fusion literally melts the power plant it is being done in.
drewbixcube127
The amount of power we can produce with our existing supply will last us till things like iter get better. Nuclear power means less bombs.
Redmancometh
Somewhere a few heat-deaths-of-the-universe away. Even when it runs out on Earth we've got space bruh
ravinoff
That's an extreme long-term thing, we can currently reprocess "waste" from reactors into fissile material for more reactors, also thorium.
Mykron
Uranium is actually extremely finite and Thorium has a rather low accessability. Fusion might be the future, nuclear fission certainly not.
strongshoulders
Thorium reactors - YouTube it. Never going to run out of that.
Xecryo
Germany: It's a bright day outside so remember to stay in, run the AC, and use plenty of internet in a well lit room.
SkylaKitty
And get paid while yer at it!
mustang19rasco
We don't have AC, the suns up until 21:17! Very little energy is needed over here comparatively.
danielz19
They definitely didn't run any A/C. Last summer was there and sweat myself to sleep every night.
BerwynBrewyn
AC in Germany? Where?
malfunctionm1ke
German here, we dont even have an AC in our homes. Most of the time I have to keep the heater to keep my ground-level appartment that (1)
malfunctionm1ke
(2) gets very little direct sunlight from dropping below 21°C
Jarkley
U dont get paid for that. Electricity prices for households are ~0.27€/kWh. Only ~3ct are costs for energy (1/2)
Jarkley
The rest are fees and taxes (~24ct). So if stockprices for energy become 0 ct -> hh prices become 24 ct.
Jarkley
The largest industry consumers don't need to pay the taxes (for international competition reasons). But this exeption is common in whole EU
EccentricNimoy
Paid to use AC? Sign me up!
Angaram
We don't even have an A/C
senshu
I wish we had AC here. Though tbh you only need it for like a week out of the year.
LegionofMartyrs
Its funny that you think Germans own a/c
Jennnnnay
Sounds like my office
ManMashine
That's what I do anyway (except having a AC). If I'd get paid to do it, so the better. However I doubt they actually paid anyone.
VinothViknesh
Sounds like a dream come true...
FirstDagger
Europe in general does not have AC and we don't really need it.
endrsgm
lol, you can count the bright sunny day outside in a year on both hands in germany. its very rare.
inspiringandfunnyusernamecoolheh
We weren't paid to use energy, the prices on the electricity stock went far down, but electricity companies did not give profits to customer
HannaTheGreat
ha we have no ACs and on wednesday we'll have 32 degree (90F) ...*cries*
catastrophicClara
I'm German. We don't have AC and no one I know either...heater yes, AC - haven't seen one in years except for waiting rooms in practices.
HEXADECIMAL
PLZ people to understand that all we need to have infinite energy is investment in renewable energy.The Earth is a Perpetual Motion Machine!
PirateRubberDuck
Couldn't they store that energy as potential like everyone else. Seems wasteful.
Jarkley
Energy storages are getting competitive at a rate of 50-80% renewables in electricity. Currently Germany has around 25%
Imhereforthelurking
They were. Batteries were supercharged. The only way they could of stored more would be to build MORE batteries.
agermanguy
Wörk, wörk, wörk...
PirateRubberDuck
I was thinking more of pumping water up hill etc.
laroline
As an american living in germany, where the fuck is the AC because today one student had to leave it was so hot and we had to take
laroline
breaks every 15 minutes to open windows. I don't understand how Germans go through this every year, and I'm from Texas
RacecarIsRacecarBackwards
AC uses insane amounts of energy. I'd rather have decent insulation.
Myenna
It' s just not happening very often, so providing an AC that's not getting used most of the days would be too expensive.
laroline
I use window units in the US, its not super expensive
ManMashine
Most windows in Germany aren't made for Window ACs. The only ACs I see here mostly are mobile units with lil' wheels.
senshu
What? It wasn't hot today, it was gorgeous out. Friday is supposed to be hot, though.
laroline
It's gorgeous outside, hot as fuck inside this one particular building though
HannaTheGreat
after because it's expensive af ... (2/2)
HannaTheGreat
It's because it normally didn't get as hot in summer, just the past years so many houses don't have them. They don't get installed (1/2)
ManMashine
Because we are Hartkern! Uh I mean hardcore!
laroline
Ich weiß das! Sind sie fertig für das Spiel morgen?
ManMashine
Meh.. I don't really care for this ball dribbling to be honest. Especially when most of the german team aren't even german. Such a joke.
Rasdwatrium
Fertig geboren ;)
DaggettBeaver
We just don't need it. There are maybe a few days a year with critical heat - if at all... temperatures over 40° Celsius are very, very rare
BerwynBrewyn
Any temperature over about 32 C and you need AC in a big building. Lack of convection makes it really stifling inside.
laroline
My classrooms are particularly terrible, my bedroom is fine. It's been around 30-35°and it's unbearable in class
ManMashine
Weird. No windowblinds? Back when I was in school we sometimes got "hitzefrei" (heat off) when it was too hot by noon, during summer.
inaplasticcup
Not likely: most Germans I know think A/C makes you sick.
prodmerc
Something related to the cold or the gas, right? Stupid belief is all over Europe...
Rasdwatrium
No, more like they're a breeding paradise for bacteria or something like that.
Spawnsy
I was born and raised in Bavaria, where we grew up believing in Krampus, never met anyone who thought A/C made you sick
As4mi
Bavarian here, it's the difference in temperature, you sweat, go in a cool supermarket and bam- you die or something
RealScienceMan
I live with a Korean and he legit believes in fan death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death
doublekross
Almost all Koreans believe in Fan Death. Lived there for two years, could not believe how many educated Koreans believed in Fan Death.
RealScienceMan
I found this out when he complained our apartment was way too hot at night, then i suggested he turn his AC on. "Noooo I could die."
GetBerserked
Well its mostly just not needed. Its not super hot here most of the time.
Macynist
Nah it's more about the warm air things over store entrances and hand dryers. Bacteria and the frequent temperature changes. No idea if true
JaredKidd
Huh? What?
ManMashine
it does. It gives you a dry throat & nose.
toboldlygowherenomanhasgonebefore
A/C, when done badly, can and will make you sick. Examples: (i) Through bacteria when the A/C is badly maintained. By badly designed 1/2
toboldlygowherenomanhasgonebefore
airflow (when cold air "drops" directly on peoples heads and shoulders). But in general, A/C is a blessing :-)
toboldlygowherenomanhasgonebefore
... sez a German (who has an emergency unit at his home and has visited the US > 15 times)
DukeofKMS
I'm from eastern germany. Our AC is a hole in one of the walls... or in all.
GylfieTheOwl
My German SO's father does b/c one time they ran it too cold all night and he got hospital-levels of sick. LOL. My SO says it's only hot 1/2
0rpheus
Being cold does not make you sick.
GylfieTheOwl
I know that, but he insists it was the A/C. They WERE running it at like 40 F for some bizarrely accidental reason but it wasn't the A/C lol
GylfieTheOwl
one week a year so they don't need A/C. I'm moving there soon and I call bullshit. I live in a house w/ AC and I still run a portable one.
TwoSeamer
*Europeans. I'm European and it drives me mad, but also the 50F (10C) differences between outside-inside the store/office in US is crazy
AFelineMassofEyes
You are correct. It's even worse if you ride the bus (where I live).
SuckAnElf
Well I mean when it's 120°F (48.8°C) outside I don't think that's unreasonable ;)
JeanZedlav
Dude, I'm an American and the difference is crazy
AccountCreatedToUpdogVotes
10C would be 18F...
AccountCreatedToUpdogVotes
For a difference of temperatures, not what the temperature actually is.
AuroraNora33
Why 18?
jrntn
A lot of US stores run the AC very cold because they think freezing their employees "keeps them on their toes so they dont slack off".
rshini
And they don't separate the systems between the kitchens (which get near heatstroke-level hot) and the dining room, that's why 1/2
rshini
restaurants are usually so cold
0rpheus
ACs are run cold for customer comfort not for the employees.
SuperPickle17
and keeps the perishable products from spoiling.
uhhMurdok
My CNC shop has AC (live in Michigan), they do it for the machines not us, but it one of many reasons I don't go somewhere else for more $.
rando84
Germans who spend a summer in the Southeastern US quickly renounce their disdain for AC, I've noticed.
yetipc
this is so true, a Very german friend of mine has completely embraced AC while living in alabama
WhereCanYouSeeLions
I've never spent more time in a store than I did in New Orleans, just to get out of the heat.
germerica
Can confirm, living in Germany with a family I met in Orlando. They have come around to many US practices.
NowICanUpvoteAndStuff
Exactly what happened to me. Still prefer avoiding AC when it's not as hot; AC makes the air dry.
WarfritLive
In South Florida, nothing makes the air dry
NowICanUpvoteAndStuff
Just another reason for AC then, I just have been to Arizona and the likes...
samjam10412
Get a dehumidifier. It makes a world of difference. Even helps keep your house warmer during the winter month too.
Snarkoleptic
Sometimes that's a blessing.
Ishalldefenestrateyou
Yeah, 100% humidity is awful.
Germankipp
German living in Florida... can confirm, impossible to live here without A/C
Pahqman
It's not suggesting they use more to offset the surplus, just that the cost was negative thus theyre being paid to use for that time.
PreciousPotato
Also, ACs are extremely rare in Germany. I've personally only ever seen them in hospitals.
ResolverOshawott
I hope its naturally cool there because no AC sounds like hell on a hot day
PreciousPotato
More like Maine than Phoenix. :) Also, there are other ways to deal with the heat, such as wet clothes, open windows only at night, (1)
PreciousPotato
darkened rooms in the daytime, hot beverages (tricks your brain)... the few times I had to deal with ACs, I always got sick with red (2)
vampiremario
That means that they need to use more. They will not pay you for it unless they really need to remove it.
TwoBallsOnePenis
No, the the other person is correct. They will pay you for it. it's negative because they are selling the excess to neighboring countries.
carbolicious
An overcharged battery is going to be damaged so they did need people to use the excess.
borgmaster
Wouldnt someone just design something that send the excess into the a grounding point?
Bajeebes
Typically a battery is a backup of the backup ie: diesel gen. Soo battery should be fine. Assuming they don't have a shitty electric plant
AsSeenByMacaroni
It's not stored. Excess usually goes into the ground
HiOPImDad
I think it's actually sold to other countries. At night, France sell a lot of their access to the UK.
Frogen
Lmao, you can't store megawatts of electricity. It goes directly from turbine to transformer to user.
TheWolfofUsersub
The question: why don't more countries switch then?
zeethenomad
My works in for a Natural Gas Co, but in their green diversifying division. Battery storage capacity is the biggest hurdle. Very expensive.
jag07
Renewable energy sources are ugly. And take up a lot of space
Siptro
Really cuz I drive by wind farms and they look fucking awesome. Specially at night when they are all flashing
mycatToastwasafatasshole
Our leaders are owned by the businesses.
GingerSven
Because all this figures don't include the special Tax we have to pay for clean energy.
ridge
Because solar provides 0 energy on cloudy days, and hydro isn't available everywhere.
georgopolis
Misleading. It's insanely expensive and you need coal backup power for when there's no power. Backup power is very inefficient.
DavidBrooker
Normally natural gas over coal. Both solar and wind are peaking sources, but coal plants aren't meant to be cycled like that.
Snowdemoman
If countries switch to renewable energy, what happens to the cash from oil sheiks?
AzgarOgly
I have being in Denmark lately. Lots of winds, lots of wind generators. The landscape is totally ruined.
EmiBunny0615
Not the only reason, but alot of people don't like how the panels/turbines look. I'm from VT, people think turbines will ruin the landscape.
Onebeats
lobbyism
mustang19rasco
YOU try and take AC away from Americans...(some states seriously need it though)
rsm958
Renewable energy requires more money up front
TheVamwolf
Oil
passerByer
Greed
JhericFury
It's rather expensive for the energy it gives you, it also takes up more space, also lobbying by fossil fuels, etc.
RamblingIke
Money.Lobby.And the fact that different countries have to look for different energy sources depending on their climate and energy potentials
myhappyanonplace
Money n politics
Kangarou
Infrastructutre costs.
DrSC
People don't understand it & protest against the 'waves' it would cause to rot their brains here.
TinyLittleDick
OIL companies pay politicians good money
McSose
Shell
McSose
Just google "the first electric car"
EugeneMeltsner
"Scottish inventor Robert Anderson invents the first crude electric carriage powered by non-rechargeable primary cells." (1/2)
EugeneMeltsner
What does this have to do with Shell? (I know what you are talking about, but you need to be more specific.)
McSose
Should Google first haha, I meant this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
Baja2185
Windmills needs constant wind (not a thing) to keep up with demand so often have "dirty" backups. Hydro is pretty good, but it kills
Baja2185
The river ecosystem
senshu
Because these are misleading and the technology just isn't there yet. One day it will be, though.
bruhijustwantadifferentusername
Jobs.
filthytank
Its expensive as shit, only when the cost of implementing renewables is less than the cost of painting their current grid will they switch
ToenailCheeseMan
The Petro Dollar. If you live in the US you really don't want the world to switch. I mean you do but you don't. Massive economic collapse.
Jken324
Because solar, wind and other renewables are extremely inefficient and expensive.
watchrinserepeat
Search "Warren Buffet Solar Nevada" and get ready to scream
rIOsK
Cause it's fake. Germany mostly runs on coil, and energy costs a lot.
ThadSupersperm
The power companies wouldn't have u it. Duke energy sued a church in South Carolina for putting solar panels on
AaronGodgers
With current technology, still need fossil fuels for baseload generation. Wind and solar only work at certain times. Technology could change
PGTipsMonkeh
As ready as we are, some forms just aren't cost-effective enough. Look at GB; people used Portugal as a reason to switch to solar, but 1/2
PGTipsMonkeh
Our climate is notoriously more cloudy and less sunny than Portugal
BronzeLeaguePro
It's really, really expensive to get your electricity from renewables and it we need more energy than renewables deliver.
SomethingOffensive
Because it costs less on the surface. But if you factor in maintenance, replacing parts/panels, cheap cost of oil, it doesn't always make(1)
afriendofmine
Considering there's the slightly relevant trade off of ecological impact, numbers shouldn't always be the #1 concern on this kind of policy
SomethingOffensive
Sense to do it. (2)
thisisveryunique
Money.
ProbablyDrunkAgain
A big part of the equation.
dEdGrimley
BULLSHI... Oh wait, you said money. I thought you said honey.
DrunkenWeasel
Ding ding ding
duckman902
As someone who works in the electrical distribution industry. If no one is paying for power who pays to maintain the electrical grid?
dEdGrimley
What happens to a company that isn't constantly making profit? They eat their losses for the day and move on. They're still making money.
thisisveryunique
Renewable energy is not cheap. It's a huge investment to replace oil, coal and nuclear plants. (1/2)
thisisveryunique
Also you need much more space to build all the needed wind parks and solar fields + the maintenance is high. (2/2)
Mikamitcha
How does maintenance on renewable sources compare to coal plants? I can't imagine a spinning blade having the same upkeep as burning coal
JohnnyTitelips
Power companies are granted regional naturalistic monopolies by the government, so it is very difficult for people to switch.
TheMrGUnit
Oh, because all three of these are complete fabrications that ignore 99% of other factors involved in supplying power to a grid.
ProbablyDrunkAgain
Renewables are unreliable, the US power demand is orders of magnitude higher than a European nation, infrastructure costs, I could go on.
letthestalkingbegin
A good part of the electricity demand is already covered by hydropower.
AsFakeAsTrees
In the USA its because we are A LOT bigger than them so trying to power completely by clean sources is unrealistic with how tech is now.
afriendofmine
Nuclear is a solid solution to USAs demands yet nuclear is met with brutal hate and rejection.
Otisjay
That and we are very power hungry here in the states.
FindYourChillMate
And europe isnt?
FindYourChillMate
Thats not quite how it works
jamesn86
As a published energy economist: there are a couple of big reasons being reliability of supply, long run marginal cost. 1/
GreenDuckie
Where can I find your paper?
jamesn86
Energy Policy is one journal I published in. And that discusses investment feasibility in Australia. PM if you are legitimately interested.
reediculous84
Tidal is the only reliable energy source but it will cause green peace lose their shit over death of marine life...go figure
DontPutYourBallsOnMyChin
Also isn't very efficient
reediculous84
How do you figure? Either way, it is the only consistent natural force, tide goes in, tide goes out...twice a day. Maybe methods of harness
reediculous84
ing aren't efficient yet
jamesn86
Reliability of supply basically talks to the ability for a certain generation technology to meet demand consistently, or as required 2/
jamesn86
In Australia for instance there is an independent regulator who deems an "acceptable" level of blackout is (from memory) 0.002% of a year 3/
jamesn86
Wind turns on and off (as does solar) so there needs to be some technology to provide a baseline (battery perhaps, but still $$). 4/
twozerooz
Pumped hydroelectric storage(PHS) is used for supply gap issues. Further, the capacity factor of wind is only 10% less than cctg 1/2
jamesn86
Thermal tech provides this at quite a cost effective price (in Australia where we have large coal deposits). But this brings me to prices 5/
twozerooz
Uhh, long run marginal cost of renewables are infinitely less, why would that stall development?
jamesn86
No mate, short run is infinitely less. Long run is substantially higher.
twozerooz
You must be joking. The ongoing costs of a wind turbine after being installed is near zero. Simple maintenance
jamesn86
Yeah but the upfront capex on a per MW installed basis is so much higher. It is getting a lot better, but Australian wind has only been 1/
twozerooz
Contrast that with the massive costs of running a power station of any kind. If renewables have any benefit, its the low marginal costs
itscoldhere8monthsoftheyear
Because the demand for consistent power outweighs these moments of "supercharged" renewables. Also, the total kilowatt-hours is used when 1.
GlitterInTheDarkNearTheTannhauserGate
That's why tesla's battery factory is so significant, cheaper batteries means we get to even out day time generation with night consumption.
itscoldhere8monthsoftheyear
Once they are mass produced and installed. All of which will cost large amounts of capital. This is assuming they can deliver on promises.
itscoldhere8monthsoftheyear
talking about total energy. So when they say Portugal had 48% renewable energy, that's based on net generation vs consumption. However 2.
itscoldhere8monthsoftheyear
they are part of the European grid, and some of that energy may not have been consumed in Portugal because there wasn't a demand at the time
jojokingofdildos
Very well said
itscoldhere8monthsoftheyear
Thanks
SomethingOffensive
As an EE, thank you. I'm all for renewable power, and I work for a company who thrives of high oil prices. But the practicality is not (1)
SomethingOffensive
Always there. Almost every site you look at that explains how to use renewable energy for your home, either requires you make your home (2)
ummmat
Some countries invested too heavily in non-renewable that a 100% switch at this point to renewable resources is still too expensive. Eg, AUS
verotica
And we are still bloody investing in it :(
jabba23
Well, we can't sell our coal! We might as well burn it ourselves! At the same time tell everyone renewables is bad. Hopefully they'll believ
ashmenon
Also because switching energy sources would mean a massive shift in the economy that very few govts would know how to handle well.
Woffenhorst
Lobbying.
Soraptors
Not exactly. Most governments realize the cost per energy gained for natural is too low for demands and budgets.
ravnicrasol
In Spain when there was a surplus of energy the govt decided to turn off the nuclear reactors. Which cost MORE than turning off fuel instead
ravnicrasol
Not to mention that the most dangerous moments with nuclear energy is when turning on/off the reactors.
twozerooz
Afaik legal agreements they had would have incurred more penalties for turning off any other plant
ontheinternetnooneknowsyouradog
ELI5 please?
Mikamitcha
The money donated typically goes to campaign funds, so its 100% "legal"
DickbuttCeraJavertSpanishInquisition
People associated with fossil fuel and other industries give money to politicians if they keep the industries going. It's so corrupt.
Succubutt
People who push for that stuff not to happen because it means less money for the company they're lobbying for. Or something like that.
Boomshanker
IM from australia........ its fucken sunny here and i dont know why we arnt on solar yet... its so gosh darm expensive.... want to share?
IgnatiusJReilly2601
If you must tell people you're Australian, please make an effort not to spell like a retard.
AzgarOgly
You kinda need some power to light your streets in the night.
jrntn
Luckily, rechargable batteries in various sizes have solved that problem ages ago.
AzgarOgly
Unluckily, batteries are inefficient and cannot meet a demand for energy consumption peak smoothing in a reasonable scale.
ashmenon
I've not checked up, but hasn't solar battery storage come a long way in the last few years?
DrSparken
Plus, the best long-term solution is nuclear, as it provides better stability, and utilised well there's enough Uranium on Earth to nearly6/
DrSparken
the difference in demand between night and day is actually often surprisingly small - mainly because of big industry and street lighting. 5/
DrSparken
solar still requires a lot of this, so it's still a dubious investment, particularly when you can use PH to make non-renewable sources 3/
DrSparken
outlast the sun. Add in Thorium, which there's just as much of, and then maybe in some crazy future even fusion, and nuclear will outlast 7/
DrSparken
more efficient, by having coal plants run at constant power 24/7, and charging them at night to supply the difference during the day, as 4/
DrSparken
renewable energy in general. 8/8
AzgarOgly
"solar battery storage"? You mean a warehouse of solar panels?
ashmenon
Sorry, I meant battery tech that's compatible with solar tech. 140 chars makes these things difficult.
DrSparken
hydro is far cheaper, and offers far more capacity in both power and storage. Just relies on you having a big mountain somewhere. However,2/
DrSparken
Batteries may seem great to the average consumer but they're still poo in industrial standards. If you want to backup excess power pumped 1/
DemSumBigAssRidges
Wind energy can be fickle. Studied that in college a bit. Some believe solar isn't cost effective, and in some cases they are correct.>
senshu
Solar isn't cost effective yet, but eventually we'll get to the point where it is.
DemSumBigAssRidges
Then, if the infrastructure isn't in place, it has to be established which costs even more money...
Baja2185
Sometimes things aren't not done because of some conspiracy, sometimes they are not done because it doesn't work with current technology and
Baja2185
You have to wait for it to be reasonable to do it
r0bur
In France, one of the main reasons (besides money, lobbying ans so forth) why we don't switch to renewable is because we are too 1/?
r0bur
dependant on the stability provided by nuclear energy. We do not possess the infrastructure nor the skills to handle power sources that 2/?
r0bur
can fluctuate over time depending on the weather, the position of the sun etc. Nuclear energy provides a (almost) constant energy output 3/?
r0bur
even though not a durable solution, we would have to re-think our whole energy grid. Of course the fact that it is such a big industry 4/?
r0bur
in France cannot be overlooked.
DavidBrooker
That's not necessarily a good thing, as power consumption varies substantially throughout the day. What France really depends on is 1/2
DavidBrooker
on purchasing and selling electricity on the broader European market to meet hourly demand. 2/2
r0bur
That's quite true. But that's better (for the one in charge at least) than having lacks in the grid at some point. Then again, big money...
BrumpoTungus
Whats wrong with keeping nuclear as a primary and using renewables as supplements?
r0bur
This is actually the very solution deployed by the french governement. The issue being that nuclear energy is neither renewable nor clean 1/
atomicpotato124
Renewable energy is unreliable, plain and simple, nuclear power, the most reliable energy source, should be the main source of power.
DavidBrooker
In most parts of the world, nuclear can't be more than 40-50% of the total power, as that's the limit of base-load. The rest needs to be 1/2
DavidBrooker
peaking sources. Places with high nuclear use tend to either by highly industrialized, requiring a larger base load (ie: Ontario) or 2/3
DavidBrooker
capable of buying and selling electricity with neighbors in order to meet peaking demand (ie: France). 3/3
Isorikk
I disagree. Renewable sources are plenty reliable, but slow. Nuclear is far more energy, but more hazardous. Tradeoffs are different.
japanimies
Renewable energy sources actually kill way more people per year than nuclear as their turbines require rare minerals that are mined in china
hearthstoneaccount3
Nuclear is safer than fossil fuels it just has a bad rep
jrntn
I think a lot of people in Fukushima and surrounding environs disagree with you.
hearthstoneaccount3
Had the right reactor been used nothing bad would have happened.
hearthstoneaccount3
Using the wrong type of nuclear reactor for the area due to it being built before enough research had been done was the mistake.
Isorikk
In the U.S. there are many laws that make it a long and expensive process to install renewable energy services. Varies by state.
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
Like what? Laws against stealing components, increasing cost? Some places don't want giant wind turbines nearby sure, but it's a big country
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
my point is simply, it's wrong to say it's the law getting in the way. it's costs. it's very expensive and not to mention, unreliable.
Isorikk
In Arizona you have to buy a permit to install solar panels, and then pay the energy company a dividend of the energy created. One example.
Isorikk
Typically buying the equipment is initially more expensive but should save money in the long run. Laws make that not always true.
JohnCalvinCoolidgeJr
you also need a permit to barber, get married, or go fishing. but this post was about power companies, not individuals doing it anyway
BewareTheIceSpiders
Hydro is tapped out, essentially. Solar and wind are unreliable and very localized. Better hope for fusion.
TheMrGUnit
Hydro wouldn't be tapped out if the Eco-Nazis weren't ripping down every small- and medium-sized dam in the country.
BewareTheIceSpiders
Well, we do want to keep *some* rivers intact.
dEdGrimley
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a3923bfb187536fb2465fd57834bf57d/tumblr_mmdljw39gK1rrpikvo1_500.gif
BewareTheIceSpiders
Energy seems to be released when they fuse, which would indicate sayans are atomically lighter than iron.
dEdGrimley
Obviously.
rando84
Fusion's got a lot of promise, but until then, new fission reactor designs are pretty amazing.
IAlwaysBakeMyTaters
Thorium.
BewareTheIceSpiders
Yes, I agree. (modern) fission is the best thing we have right now.
NamesIsHardYo
If only the US would let us build any new ones…
rando84
If coal or natural gas are held to anywhere near the exacting safety standards of nuclear, it'll be a much fairer competition.
NamesIsHardYo
O&G is held pretty high, just so many locations that it's hard to control a problem