malbec
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Apr 13, 2024 6:56 AM
malbec
41914
1183
33
ButteryBiscuitBass
Toxic masculinity.
ArmedandOverclocked
I do not disagree with this at all, but i will add there are a lot of female Andrew Tate types on social media pushing the same gender specific toxicity; which does add to the complexity of two genuinely good people finding each other. That said i think men need to learn how to be content being single and working on themselves; which will help attract a life long partner in the long run.
crossingdynasty
Good rule of thumb: If someone is making their living from offering the same vague advice to many people and the problem only seems to get worse much less stay the same, they're almost certainly scamming you.
darktower743
I love Rogan because he invites interesting people on his show and bumbles around learning new things. I like Peterson, somewhat, because he is highly educated and hyper-articulate. I also share some of his views on trans issues and have the exact same opinion on legally-compelled speech.
kojenk
twisting young minds with self fulfilling prophecies.
linexnewt
I feel lucky that I don't know who the guy on the right is (guessing politically as well as physically). Unfortunately, I know who the one on the left is.
nrg117
Looks like a very poor version of Breaking Bad :)
MeticulouslyCareless
Shows what you know, I'm lonely even without those traits!
whitebbwolf
I feel ya. cultivate positive ones, love, compassion, forgiveness (4urself2) and spread some smiles around. that ll help change
Agatsu74
Real men don't give a fuck about what other people think a real man does.
beeeeeeerkaaaaa
All the male loneliness epidemic caused by listening to "men" like Andrew tatertot. Then guess who they want to fix it? Women have walked away and they can't figure out why.
andaction
One of my favorites was a family member saying “real men don’t make beds, that’s women’s work”. I happen to know every man in the Army was well trained in making their own bed. We cooked. Served food. Washed dishes. Cleaned living quarters. Folded clothes. Only thing we didn’t do was launder service clothes and bed linens. There was a weekly service for that. Everything else was personal responsibility.
staceyjorgenson31415
pucklordofchaos
I mean, look, I agree with the sentiment of all this. Let me tell ya I disagree with these ass holes and everything they stand for. and I'm still super lonely, and I'm surrounded by people who buy into this garbage, men and women. All dating is local demographics boys. Sometimes you gotta move to find more sensible tastes
ConstantlyonYoBack
Men think they are the only ones who feel lonely... that's annoying. It's part of the human experience like.
vcgetdown
Do they?
ConstantlyonYoBack
Those particular type do.
pachyderm
Joe Rogan is a fucking idiot
doctorId
If I had 90 seconds and a suit of armour I bet I could convince Joe Rogan he went back in time
TheePerfectComment
Cataleast
Is it just me or does he come across as someone, who hasn't had an original thought in years? It seems like he's just parroting any ol' shite he hears that "goes against the norm" with an air of absolute confidence... And when he's challenged, it's up to Jamie to "pull it up" and demonstrate he's been talking out of his arse for the past 20 minutes.
Nobody7713
That's basically it. He just absorbs the last thing he heard and he's increasingly just spoken with manosphere assholes.
bemibet
Who are those guys?
The701
Joe Rogan and Jordon Peterson
Gen1Optimus
This is a great point. Be kind, friends
YourFellowMan
“Be excellent to each other.”
Gen1Optimus
And party on dudes!
Seradhe
There are no negatives from being happy with yourself, and it shows in a way that no amount of fabricated 'confidence' can compare.
L3NTON
I've been surprised how many women's profiles I see on bumble who specifically request the type of man described above. Not sure how well they do with those requests. But it is strange to see someone (especially successful women) request oppression.
blueKD
L3NTON
Weirdly I don't screenshot every profile I see for data collection purposes. Actual stats are probably very low percentage wise. But it's one of those "If I had a nickel for every time: I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice". Except like a few dozen times. But a few dozen out of 10s of thousands isn't that crazy, but still strange. (to me)
idiotsonfire
Yeah. I don't care if people are lonely when they've been told to act like assholes, who are all lonely, because they're assholes.
CarlPotatoes
Ironic that an old feeble crybaby Canadian that got hooked on drugs and went to Russia to get put in a coma so he didn't have to deal with his own consequences and go through withdraws is gonna tell me how to be a man. Fuck Moron Petershrill!
TheRedBaron8
That's accurate!
whitebbwolf
in the beginning that Peterson guy kinda made sense on a bunch of things. Then it got W E IRD.
Morganelefay
Peterson is very skilled at wrapping his rhetoric in nice sounding speech.
thegrouchohandleisunavailable
I bought a kindle book from Peterson ... didn't get to read it for while, he went weird, I deleted the book permanently from my library. Also, cancelled my Spotify and replaced it with Tidal. Fuck you guys for trying to ram that shitstain Rogan's podcast down my throat. If you pay him $100M and expect me to lump a cost increase, no, No, NO.
Metlahaed
Ok but those two guys aren’t what he’s describing. Not saying I’m a fan of either.
DropDrop
I think it's worth remembering that toxic ideas of masculinity existed long before this new wave of "let me teach you to be an alpha" guys came along. I think men are easy prey for these guys, because they were already lonely, so the root is deeper than these guys. We trained men to kill, sent them off two war, and when they came back, expected them to teach their son's to be emotionally sensitive. Girls are given Barbie dolls that can now be doctors or astronauts, but boys are still given nerf-
DropDrop
-guns, and action figures who's main story is, "fights bad guys". It kind of makes sense they think they need to be the strongest to have value. Super heroes beat the bad guys not because they're kinder, but because they're more powerful. How little boys are raised plays a big role in their view of what masculinity should be, and same with little girls. We need to have compassion for these people. We give men too much agency and women not enough, that where the term objectifying comes from.
StudioDerpster
I don't disagree with your overall point, but nerf guns are dope. We need to teach our sons emotional sensitivity, but boys and men often have different emotional processing than girls and women that I don't think is all cultural. So boys are looked at as "broken girls" because the same strategies aren't as effective for them. Us males need instruction, but most of us don't know how to do it very well. This is not a binary statement, there are a wide range of tendacies in any groupings,
StudioDerpster
and i don't pretend to know how this applies for trans/nonbinary folks). It's just my personal experience and observations as a middle school teacher that our culture doesn't know how to teach boys emotional processing and regulation. Often, specialists can have better outcomes, but the lay knowledge isn't there. This often leaves boys vunerable.
DropDrop
It's hard to say where the line of nature and nurture is on male emotions. I think trans people have really highlighted the weight of gender dysphoria and euphoria in peoples' lives, and it's true even for cis people. women can often struggle with feeling feminine if they're a lot taller than the guys around them, or if they haven't shaved their legs and arm pits, which clearly isn't biological, since shaving those areas is a pretty recent thing to do. The most common gender affirming surgeries-
DropDrop
are for people wanting to be more like their ideal version of the gender the were assigned at birth, and outside of surgery, is also growth hormone usage. There's a meme that men are changing their pronouns from he/him to HE!/HIM!. Would a boy be judged differently for crying than a girl, in some places maybe not, but in others maybe. I'd say in most environments, being a damsel in distress could actually make guys more attracted to you, but being a dude in distress doesn't work the same way.
gft8gd5khn101
That's true. The things that guys think will make them masculine or sexy to women rarely do. Walk your dog, smile at kids (in a normal way), pick up around the house and ask how she's doing and listen. It's easy :)
HootSloot
Vacuum and do dishes in just your jorts.
JoylessGreyhound
Aragorn son of Arathorn is a portrait of masculinity we can all aspire to.
Fatbird
It's not about making them sexy to women. It's about intimidating women into being afraid of upsetting them, and intimidating other men into being afraid to approach women they're interested in. And in their eyes, if it doesn't work on a woman, she's woke and not worth their time anyway.
LuLuPennyAndOdium44
Do women even want masculine sexy men? I’m old but theyve always gone after responsible dudes who can manage their own shit and have their own money. After 20 or so anyway
ArmedandOverclocked
In my experience women do tend to be attracted to some stereotypical masculine traits, but which traits exactly kind of change as they get older. Teens into 20s Having a decently athletics body can net you some attention. in the 30s Having a take charge, without being over bearing, attitude is desirable as well as being a responsible adult. Also being pretty handy tends to be a turn on. Turns out Red green was right.
Koetjeboe
I wonder what your defenition of masculine is. Isn't a guy who can protect and provide a lot more masculine than the guy on the internet shouting he's an "alfa" from mom's basement? And why even bother about masculinity? Emotional and financial stability can make most people attractive.
CurvyCountess
Protect from what? Provide what? Are we about to go bushcrafting?
LuLuPennyAndOdium44
To me “masculine sexy” = muscles 💪
TheePerfectComment
IIikethecutofyourjib
Soy Boy....ong
Bacxaber
That's the best impression of Peterson I've ever heard.
DarkRedCape
This is ridiculous. It’s not even close to being accurate. Where’s the 15 pauses to cry??
Clockworkdancerobot
Is he? For how long? Most of these jokers scare the women in their lives away.
Putitinyomama
graehall
Lisossoma
Damn that is a perfect imitation lol
GerbilHereReportingLiveFromRichardGeresAss
As a former Peterson follower: we were looking for solutions to our awful lives. Those people spoke to us directly as father figures and guidance that we bought into because we didn't have any of it. It took a moment to realise their solutions were complete bullshit and their 'advice' is just a grift. Those people are literally no different from cult leaders or religious leaders and look for vulnerable people and sell them a solution that doesn't work to get rich.
Recidivous
As much as I disagree and resent my father in some things, at least he was present and was there for me whenever I needed it. It helped me avoid the charlatans that pose as father figures to grift them.
Ughffs
I could get high and give you better advice than clean your room. Ffs he basically just scolded you all like an angry mommy and you ate it up. 😒
secularink
Thank you for sharing this. I would love to hear more if you or anyone else would like to tell us their story. I for one used to be a Joe Rogan fan: The podcast, MMA-colour commentary and his comedy. I'm no longer. Looking back I think he always had that tint of far-right-pseudo in him. I just did not want to see it. Also I don't agree with the "road" he has taken.
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ToonamiT0M
A lot of weird interpretations and strawmaning of my comment. As a liberal, I want the left to have more influencers with the reach that the right has, but, you know, spreading positivity.
RagtimeRaver
Blaming "the left" for young men's inability to recognize examples of positive masculinity is a weird take.
glocksout
The left gave to Obama and the right gave you Trump. One of these is an example of positive masculinity.
ArmedandOverclocked
No "the left" has generally been pretty consistent in championing examples of positive masculinity. For instance i saw an IG post of a dude pretending to get his nails done by his daughter and he went full sassy black woman with the role. The only people who had an issue were the "alpha males" in the comments, but everyone else was very supported of being a positive father figure.
cadesama
I think there are few leftist influencers, but certainly in media there are plenty of examples, from Mr Rogers to Keanu to Aragorn. Even Tony Stark, who undergoes a character arc of rejecting selfish womanizing to embrace mentoring a young man and respect for all his team mates, men and women.
Uandi82muchBeer
Something something cuck.... Something something magat... Something something pffft...
ThisGuyPostingThings
I definitely aped some of his followers' rhetoric before his rise. Had I grown up a few years later, might've been a fan. Glad I wasn't.
[deleted]
[deleted]
ThisGuyPostingThings
Not sure you meant to respond to me, you seem to be addressing someone else's point.
ArmedandOverclocked
My bad, deleting the comment in a moment and applying it to the correct person. Have a good rest of your weekend!
Morganelefay
This is the lure of all the right wing chuds. They start with reasonable points, and pull you in deeper and deeper.
Dannyalcatraz
Illustrated in the “Nazi in the Crustpunk bar” anecdote.
elvianempire
happy for you that you get away from it
GerbilHereReportingLiveFromRichardGeresAss
It was a process. At first I rejected his Bible references. Then I heard him talk about trans people and a bunch of other things. You start to piece things together - this guy has no clue what he's talking about.
He literally lures people in with very basic solutions but it starts going sideways the more you learn. The truth is - men in despair gravitate towards people that have it together and offer simple solutions. But it's a facade. Life is complicated and you need competent people to help.
undrh2o
"Beware of people offering simple solutions to complex problems they are always full of shit and usually trying to con you" is my mantra
ReverseSyzygy
this is a distant aside, but..
people in general who are in despair gravitate to those who offer simple solutions.
We see this in the current US political system - it's just easy for them to "do what the strongman says" without thinking it through.
heartlessninja6
I was initially drawn to Peterson for his insights on storytelling (I'm fascinated by the reasons behind why we tell certain stories). Then the videos started shifting towards the culture war, and then he went full crazy following his self-imposed coma. It was wild seeing someone’s stupidity/hatred destroy themselves in real time.
secularink
After that Russian coma trip he started to spread Kremlin talking points. They got to him on that trip. He's a desant/Kremlin troll now.
Frederf
You gotta get off the JP train somewhere between clean your room and Hitler did nothing wrong. I suggest lobster station.
heartlessninja6
I still don’t know what the lobster thing is about. Never saw a video, just comments saying how stupid it was.
Frederf
Basically lobsters form hierarchies, explicit it's natural, implicit natural is morally correctn implicit humans should do so too.
GerbilHereReportingLiveFromRichardGeresAss
He was trying to compare people on antidepressants to lobsters on antidepressants. In that when you give SSRIs to lobsters they stand taller and fight harder etc. But it's not bc they're not depressed. It's bc they literally become more aggressive - a fact he conveniently leaves out.
So the comparison falls apart, it's pointless, but he used it as basis for his theories. This should give you a good idea how he formulates his arguments.
thetonestarr
I had never heard about this coma so I went to read about it, and encountered a whole lot more crazy than I expected. How the fuck does somebody think eating ONLY beef is a good idea? And then how the hell do people continue thinking that person has other good ideas? Jfc
thetonestarr
Though his coma wasn't exactly "self imposed"; it was medically induced per the (Russian) doctors' recommendations. But he only saw those doctors because the ones in the regulated world wouldn't provide him the care he wanted (because it was dumb). The Russian doctors had fewer limitations and basically said screw it, you pay us, we'll do whatever you want.
blankunderscore
Unfortunately people with GI issues tend to eventually suffer from mental health issues. Especially if not properly treated. Even while GI issues are some of the most studied in the medical industry today, it’s an incredibly complex system and few solutions are perfect to those with GI ailments.
blankunderscore
One of my more favorite Peterson quotes is ‘Most individuals (adults) are dealing with one or more serious health problems while going productively and uncomplainingly about their business’. I think this comes from his personal experience suffering from health conditions while being in the public eye.
marthafarquar
My favourite is all the people that say " Real Men don't ....." when in actual fact real men do what they enjoy, drink what they enjoy, eat what they enjoy and dress how they please, even is if it's wearing a Disney princess gown to take their daughter trick or treating. What " Real Men ™ " never do is follow a list of stupid do's and don't because they are terrified they might accidentally suck a dick if they have a Piña Colada.
CalvinMcFly
MotherfuckinGoats
Real men are carbon based.
Wright2k
I love a good virgin pina colada
TheMouseOfMadness
I also prefer my drinks without someone's genitals in it
HsuDoNihm
Real Men don't... do everything all at once, because that's physically impossible.
doctorId
I've been saying that for years. Real men don't let others dictate how they live their lives.
Bollramm
I only ever heard the phrase "Real men do/don't
/are...." from women. Never from a guy 🤷♂️
Frenchgeek
damogen
For a short while that is what "sigma male" meant.
orboloops9
"real men don't hit women" is a legit exception imo.
DoctorCaptainProfessorAmazing
Nope. Some crazy bitch comes at me with a knife I'm dropping her.
marsilies
Assaulting others isn't an a sign of whether you're a "real" anything or not, it's a sign you're a piece of shit.
CrashInfinite
"Decent, sane adults do not assault each other"
Better?
ThisGuyPostingThings
Unless in a reasonably safe, consensual manner? (Like, if people want to box/wrestle/do martial arts, etc.)
vinzzz69
Real men can suck dicks too.
Tumescentpie
Can confirm.
angryallenpoe
Huzzah!! Real men know those dicks won’t just suck themselves!
marthafarquar
If that's what they enjoy Real Men can drink Piña Colada's and suck dicks in the rain.
TheOneWhoWasLeft
Real Men drink Pina Coladas! And suck five dicks in the rain! Real Men will go to goat yoga! Real Men think Tate is insane!
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Technically speaking, if you are a non-imaginary man, and do something, that is by definition something real men do.
marsilies
Yeah, I always say anything I choose to do is manly, because I'm a man, and I'm doing it.
LtRooney
What if my masculinity has to be plotted on the complex plane?
billstranger
Yes, straight men and gay men are like capacitance and inductance. Gotta plot that reactance to know the value of your IMPOTENCE
robotlaserninjashark
You wouldn’t download a cock
ratfaceddog
Your mom would.
CurvyCountess
Using phrases like "Real Men" is a red flag and we women are tired of the mountains of flags we have to avoid in order to be treated like a human. It's getting easier to just assume it IS all men and avoid them for safety and peace.
jaggcomputing5
TBF, it goes both ways.
LordKingSalmon
If you haven't met a single man who ISN'T what you hate, it sounds like you might just hate men.
tallyhoho
Look it's another man explaining to you what you actually meant when you don't mean that at all
LordKingSalmon
There is no what someone meant when they flat out say it IS all men. Every woman I've dated has cheated on me. Does that mean you're all terrible people?
CurvyCountess
I'm speaking to the current social climate. Though myself and women I know will remain single if our current relationships ever cease (death of a partner, divorce, etc). There are gaps in our relationships but they are worth bridging. We don't feel that way about dating or attempting to find someone new. If you can't know a good guy from a bad guy and it will be your fault if he manipulates/mistreats you (should have picked better) it is no longer worth the risk for many women.
CurvyCountess
And it's not about if there ARE GOOD men, obviously there are. But if you can't tell an aggressive snake from a harmless snake don't you just Avoid snakes? The stats on violence on women alone should and does give most women pause. Their own personal experiences handle the rest. We don't hate you, we just don't need you to live anymore and if our experience shows life is BETTER when we aren't with a man . . . That's not an us problem. Do better.
LordKingSalmon
Sounds no different to why I stopped dating. Every woman I dated was a lying cheater.
WibblyWobblyTimeyWimeyFox
Seriously, this! "Not All Men"ners need to realize that even if 9 out of 10 men are decent, that means every time you engage with a man you have a 10% chance of sexual assault or the like. And if the odds are worse, that just gets worse. It's necessarily safer to regard men as predators because the culture encourages predatory behavior ("boys will be boys!"). Does this suck? HELL YES IT SUCKS! But until the culture behind it changes, it's self-preservation.
HandoB4Javert
amglasgow
Can we not please?
TheVampireDante
Looks like he's trying to figure out what you've got in your pocketses...
Andunistar
That's not fair, gollum actually did something usefull by dieing and takeing an immortal turbo tyrant and his radioactive bling with him.
cuddleskunk
*dying
mephiston
huey9k
HubicPairs
New gollum just dropped and he looks sick af
idiotsonfire
Why do all the people who claim to be the best example of their race or gender always turn out to be the worst version of it?
doctorId
Arkane Studios character lookin ass
TheAnswerWasAlwaysMoreLube
I believe his general unattractiveness is part of his appeal.
CardeasIV
The secret ingredient is inbreeding
tythiss
Still looks like a duster from Kenshi
Dapperworth
Why does every genetic purity alpha male dipshit look like the guy from robocop who gets melted by toxic waste and explodes when Clarence Boddicker hits him with his car.
sNadeine
Because the outside most often matches what is on the inside.
Gestalt7
joshuasplinth
You’ve been holding onto that one for a while, haven’t you? ;)
He looks like the type of guy who’d be asking to speak to The Colonel at KFC.
bearatrooper
Peter Griffin?
DoctorWookie
What I say you?! He dead!
JustDavid1102
Funny how making fun of appearances is funny in one way and damed the other way around
HandoB4Javert
Claiming superiority through genetics, which are demonstrably not, is cognitive dissonance in the 'Alpha' pseudoscience. Much like the blond haired, blue eyed leader of the Aryan 'Master Race' had neither.
idiotsonfire
Its just desserts, because there's nothing that Tate shitbag cares about more than being a bully asshole or claiming attractiveness.
GodzillaHarddiskson
In most cases, I would agree, but in Tates case i couldn't give a shit, seeing as he barely qualifies as human
ThisOldCPU
Context matters, or do you always deal in aboslutes?
SilentScreamsX
Yeah guys, stop making fun of the sex trafficker.
JustDavid1102
Did you ever here the term "innocent till the guilt is proven"... just cause you think someone is a criminal dosen`t make them one... since two years now they try to gather proofs for sextrafficing and found nothing... is he an asshole... damn sure, but is he a criminal... not till they found something and prejustice is a dangerous game, destroyed to many people in modern society, men and women
Thorinori
It is funny because they try to act like they are the peak or epitome of something, rather than acknowledging that they have flaws just like anyone else. The hypocrisy is what makes it funny, rather than the actual appearance.
JustDavid1102
So bullying some people for appearances is fun but others is bad... what again is hypocrisy?
Thorinori
Again, it isn't about the appearance specifically, it is about the person. There is basically no amount of bullying that ISN'T justified for the shit stain that is Andrew Tate.
JustDavid1102
So crime is fully justified as long as you don`t like a person... interesting point of view... thumbs up for being the better person here