SovereignASF
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Aug 21, 2020 5:07 AM
SovereignASF
103540
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93
Need2chill
The prisoners are on lockdown, not all sick. Can't anyone just deliver a straight narrative for once?
geistwindmedia
Also, slave labour. Shhhhh, that's a secret
gumol
What a load of bullshit. "We have less resources" doesn't mean "we have no resources".
snconkle6
I work at one of these camps. Most of the prisoners take pride in finally doing something positive and productive.
soupergenious
Technically the DOCC put everyone in quarantine, but yeah same thing. No inmate labor during the pandemic.
Silkyninja1
Ok, so the prisoners all are non violent offenders, they volunteer and they get their sentences reduced for every day spent on a fire.
Agatsu74
...and Trump doesn't care because it's just liberal California on fire, and pEoPlE tHeRe dOn't LiKe HiM.
RickyTickyB
Is there a way to go help?
Drilltails
Wtf, this was posted yesterday with a reasonable explanation. The prisoners are rehabilitated and hired as firefighters making 6 figures.
Cheeseyfunkymonkey
Ummmm.....I'm actually there.
chrisf524365
Can confirm, my buddies brother did it for many years until he was "too old." for that prison job.
IrgendSoEinTyp
I love the US "everything is on fire but we can't help it cause our slaves are ill" spectacular news
sloppygashmeat
bluerazzgummy
America, that’s what
IDontWantANameGoAway
California cannot fight its forest fires because its local stock of slaves is sickly with plague. Something, something, American dream.
gcous
Slavery.
WhataboutBobWiley
The newly appointed (D) VP kept non violent people in prison to perpetuate this system...Remember that
gcous
Hey I'm Canadian. I think ALL your politicians suck ?
WhataboutBobWiley
and us americans downvote facts if they hurt our feelings....
DubhIainn
Oh wait. You didn't look after your slaves enough and now you actually have to work yourself? Heavens forbid.
VizslaPadre
13th Amendment; no slavery or involuntary servitude..”except as a punishment for crime”
TCGView
Oh no! They're out of slaves? The humanity!
Haydanas
Fuck off with this clickbait bullshit... sure it has absolutely nothing fucking to do with their be 30 gd fires going at once
Roaddog184
And the way that they treated other states inmates a couple of years ago on loan to help, kinda made non one else want to help them too.
1derflash
and no one was ever concerned when Jeffery Dahmer and his crew left without food and only he returned
sleepinggreenidea
Let's not forget Kamala Harris's AG office argued against early parole programs in court b/c it would reduce available prison fireworkers.
sleepinggreenidea
(That's not to say "vote Trump", it's to say be aware of what we're getting in Harris - and to primary her ass in 2024 if she's the nominee)
GuestChrist
The 13th amendment to the US Constitution explicitly allows for penal servitude as punishment for crimes.
Zedaroca
Yes, legality was, and still is an excuse for slavery.
Barkinsons
Gee I wonder what this causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
ShadowbanMyAss
Hahahahahaha
AgentPothead
Mark2dot0
One of the worst parts is it is pretty hard for them to get a job as a firefighter and use those skills they learned once they get out.
Spartavius
They've been implementing programs to fix that since 2018.
arrbos
So, there's a pool of people with firefighting skills who are likely unemployed right now? Sounds like a solution in need of a problem.
thewiggins
how else do you get them desperate enough to re-offend so the end up back where they started?
Blackmetalhappiness
No one wants to hire a "dirty felon."
HenryLongfellowIII
I imagine that's partly because they would have to compete with prisoners paid $2/hour.
DasDovian
According to my FIL who was a firefighter for 20+ years many of the ones with wanted skills like mechanics and heavy machine operators1/2
DasDovian
Do get hired on. Others that finish their sentences and have a great record working also have a high chance of getting picked up as long2/?
DasDovian
As they don't have drug or violent offender charges. He actually had an ex-con on one of his crews before he retired. 3/3
Mark2dot0
They're looking to change some of that though https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sacbee.com/news/california/fires/article244286777.html
bripi
good to hear. may decency win the day for once.
onthe6ball
they act as behind the lines support, not as firefighters.
garymacy23
Con-crews do indeed dig line and actively fight fire
bripi
that is absolute shit fuckery. what a gigantic farce. and in no way am I surprised.
IcommentMostlyWithGifs
RiverThePembroke
Why hire a firefighter long term when you can pay a private prison $15/hour only when needed, & the prisoner can get 50cents/hour?
RiverThePembroke
Basic capitalism... There's no economic incentive to hire workers with cheap slave labor. Goodwill lasts days or weeks, see: grocery workers
TrashCanEnthusiast
Tweet is wrong about the reason. Most of the firefighter prison population was released due to Covid because they're non-violent offenders.
hobowitharolex
Don’t let facts get in the way of a catchy title
TrashCanEnthusiast
So they could literally just hire them back to do the same job. But then they'd have to pay them above minimum wage. Doubt they will.
garymacy23
Correct, except that prisoner firefighters are paid just cents an hour I suspect. It's a "privilege" to be able to leave the prison..
M4X1N10S
They also get time off their sentences I believe
TheMagicalUpvoteFearie
My firefighter buddy said they're not really trained as firefighters. They get a shovel to dig holes pretty much
sleepinggreenidea
They're trained as wildfire fighters. It's a different, less technical skillset.
garymacy23
Can confirm, wildfire is taught and fought at an eighth grade level. It's real light in the academic/technical aspects of poss. job skills
bearatrooper
Wildland fire fighting =/= metro fire fighting. Wildland is about digging trenches and clearing brush,
bearatrooper
metro (and largely rural) is active suppression, extraction, rescue, and EMS. Much more involved/much broader scope. Requires more education
WaffleHouseDJ
I read Kamala Harris made it harder for them to get jobs and kept some in prison just to cover fire season.
Mark2dot0
Her department did, she swore she didn't know they were making that argument but I'd take that with a grain of salt.
WaffleHouseDJ
Yeah the problems is that she bragged about doing it so...
Mark2dot0
https://www.thedailybeast.com/kamala-harris-ag-office-tried-to-keep-inmates-locked-up-for-cheap-labor
ForgeGoremann
90 hand crews, last year was 192
Karlec
Well, only way I can think to put it. Shits fucked up yo
AVeryTallGlassOfIToldYouSo
Sounds like a mechanism that encourages imprisonment. Btw. Seems California is burning in 4/4 seasons now
buddhafw
I don't if you've ever been confined, but let me tell you the truth. A job is a godsend when all you have is time. Keeps you sane.
AVeryTallGlassOfIToldYouSo
I can believe that. Prison should be more about rehabilitation than punishment.
buddhafw
Yes, but humans are more interested in vengeance than making a person better. Some are definitely irredeemable, but not all.
Pafolo
If they knew anything about biology they would know it’s meant to fucking burn. That’s the biome! It will always burn but they keep trying
Pafolo
To stop it so it just adds more fuel for the next time. Plus stupid people building there homes in forests and complain there place burned.
nonCanadianGoose
Not really, the volunteers get sentence reductions. It’s not for profit. Literally paying a debt to society. It is an naive to assume they>
nonCanadianGoose
>are all wrongfully imprisoned as it is to assume they’re all irredeemable.
bripi
I don't know why you got d/v but I got you back on +. Your statements ring true and deserve to be read!
TheRealAlpharius
This is what happens when capitalism doesn't have access to slaves.
CaptainHollister
No. This is what happens when those at the top of the capitalist system have zero foresight beyond their own expanse of power and wealth.
nemesisx00
So, it's what happens when capitalism capitalisms.
CaptainHollister
I agree the the inevitable outcome of capitalism is corruption and money protecting money. Ideal capitalism is just a pipe dream.
GnomeDeGuerre
China is also what happens. Capitalism seeks to eliminate the loss of profit that goes to wages.
parasP6rsas
Don't mix up capitalism with whatever you guys are doing in the states.
TheRealAlpharius
Do you think your capitalist country DOESN'T rely on slave labor? I'd love to know which one it is.
RackhamTheRed
Yes.. Like in all other capitalist countries. Like everywhere here in Europe. Jfc...
whatpassesforclever
European countries have capitalism balanced with social democracy. That’s why Europe works.
TheRealAlpharius
You mean all the countries that import goods from their former colonies, where the labor is pennies an hour? Yeah, like Europe dipshit.
ImaginaryMamboNumber5
Access to cheap labour then. The west is hooked on labour from the far east. Not slavery except it would be in our own countries.
Pooprocketpower
*unregulated capitalism
DecimusMagnus
Does anybody bother to actually fact check? https://earther.gizmodo.com/california-s-prison-covid-19-outbreak-isn-t-behind-its-1844792699
SovereignASF
The historically criminal #Cabalists who run the prison/slaveholder scheme also can plant a *Quick* “story” like this anytime & anywhere?
raydnjames
Yeah, but that article says they dont have the people because they were early released due to COVID. They're not locked in a cell, sick. No
BecausewelikesayingthewordHUGGBEES
No the dont fact check at all. The read the same story from the plethora of posts like this yesterday, know its a falsity and posted anyway
080080
people just want to be mad.
RenaissanceFaireMan
The problem IS Covid related though, as thousands of prisoners were released early due to the pandemic.
kittykat
The article is just saying the reason for the lack of prisoner firefighters is more nuanced. It is related to covid + prison reform efforts.
Crazyaussiecanadian
That's even worse. They are short handed because there's less people incarcerated - due to covid.
DecimusMagnus
They also don't work for free. They get paid a shitty wage and get time off their sentence. Pretty sure it's a volunteer job too.
kittykat
"... a meager $5.12 a day with an additional $1 an hour when on the fire line." That is an exceptionally shitty wage.
080080
that's true. but they're not obligated to volunteer.
Spartavius
Correct. Only certain people can volunteer, and apparently most of them enjoy it.
meskarune
$1 a day with 100% of the money going to the prison commissary and way to say no is slavery. All prisoners have to work fyi.
Barkinsons
Still the whole scheme is just another way to avoid paying full time employees and exploiting prisoners instead
awesomekev408
I imagine there are very few people that want to become a firefighter that actually go through with all of the education and training.
Shamallamadinglehergen
Maybe. But maybe it’s good mentally for a person serving time to not sit idle and to work towards being a benefit to society.
rexkraft
I have a feeling that any benefit is just an unintended side effect of wanting to save money by hiring "technically not slave workers"
Barkinsons
I agree that rehabilitation is vital for prisoners, but it should be more education oriented. Hard manual labor isn't ideal for that
FuckmotheringxVampire
What the fuck is wrong with this country...the prison system wasn't intended to legalize slavery
youlsittles365
You are right morally speaking however constitutionaly it is supported.
Rulweylan
Have you read the 13th amendment?
DubhIainn
Oh wait. You didn't look after your slaves enough and now you actually have to work yourself? Heavens forbid.
dekket
It... sort of was.
LouisFfuhr
I’d say you’re not entirely correct
ikbeneengeit
Isn’t it though?
fastlanefreddy
This is Kamala Harris' work.
TrynaHelp
It was Clinton's emails that did it. Ben Ghazi helped her, the bastard!
fastlanefreddy
It's like you're saying what we're all thinking!
TheWorldAccordingToAtlas
Since this program started in the 1940's, I'm gonna guess she wasn't responsible.
GnomeDeGuerre
But surely she sent some emails back in time?
ShadowbanMyAss
It was a happy accident
meskarune
It is legalized in tbe US constitution that prisoners can be used as slave labor.
sykoticflaw
That's exactly why the privatized the prison system. They wanted slavery back, but they had to get creative.
d3jake
This country loves to deride and dehumanize prisoners because "screw them".
meMarbleMaker
Your 13th Amd grants access to slave-labour. Your country is lost without it. Your corps suffer without it. It's your foundation.
DoctorGalifrey
Foundation is bold.
meMarbleMaker
When you can't fight fires due to labour shortages typically derived from prison populace, foundation is accurate, bold or not.
UnstableEnder
What part of “GOP powered for-profit prison system” don’t you understand?
SisyphusLivinLife
I think we want to believe that but if we look deep enough we'll find out our belief was based on hope and not reality.
Pafolo
It is where the place is trying to burn. That’s what the democrats do.
blackagar
100% was, read the constituion.
livinglife9009
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist...
livinglife9009
..... within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
kittykat
It very much was.
EleMenTal304
HeRiTaGe?! Oh, sorry. Wrong use
BillyBabel
*Americans glance around nervously*
Silkyninja1
Ok, so the prisoners all are non violent offenders, they volunteer and they get their sentences reduced for every day spent on a fire.
Anddroid
Yeah, actually, it kind of was. And it's been used for that since slavery was abolished. Condolence prize to the South. Check the history.
thehumanoidsarecoming
MorallyCasual
This. Yes. I'm surprised people are surprised. I guess I thought everyone knew and was ok with it. I'm not,.
holzcman360
So California is a southern state now.
UlfricStormtoke
All the states
NzRevenant
“Always has been”
leaderofthedamned
If we want to get real technical, it is in the southern United States.
luciferousthefallen0
Oh... I love it when you get real technical *purrs in pedantic*
kittykat
Parts of it are.
GnomeDeGuerre
Slavery has been the point for the last 150 years. 13'th amendment makes it clear that the people who died to wildfires were burnt during 1/
GnomeDeGuerre
2/ slavery. A prisoner who works during punishment is, in legal terms a slave.
GloomyGusterson
But they volunteer for it. Slaves don't get a choice.
GnomeDeGuerre
Perhaps you should learn more about slavery?
Bladedrummer
Eh, it kind of was in the US.
KillFascism
There’s a movie on Netflix called “13th.” It goes over how slavery transformed into what it is now. I.e. mass incarceration. I recommend it.
DanielTheCanadian
You recommend modern slavery?
Zadwanaa
I was gunna ask if that was a movie about the 13th son of the 13th warrior fighting on the 13 v 13 witches or something
WhatisaYute
While that doc is informative, there are about 1,000 books that really dig into the situation with the 13th Amendment. Post CW USA was nuts.
DoctorGalifrey
Top suggestions?
kittykat
..
repurposedschleem
Well I wouldn't recommend slavery myself, but each to their own
KillFascism
Lol.
DLOBREWSKY
To be fair, they volunteer for it.
GnomeDeGuerre
How is that any kind of fair? How volountary can it be?
GloomyGusterson
Completely voluntary. If you want some luxuries you have to work for them... like everybody else.
GnomeDeGuerre
Which luxuries are you refering to?
Steelfin
Actually...
UlfricStormtoke
Actually it kind of was. The 13th ammendment specifically bans slavery "except as punishment for a crime"
preparationh67
That's not what the amendment says
peterbozeman
Uhm... whose going to tell him..?
PickleRiiiiiiiiiiiiick
Yes...it was, sadly.
muerte175
Exactly.
seven0111
Look at Kamala Harris and what she did in CA. Locked up people for 10 years for having a few joints. She called it free labor.
ToneLock
yest it was
IssacCox
It's also voulntary, reduces time served, and has a myriad of other benefits for participants. Unless rehabilitation and job skills are bad?
ilsalta
That’s like saying it’s not a robbery because you’re given the choice between resisting or not. It’s slavery no matter the sugar coating.
GloomyGusterson
Do you call the Salvation Army slavery? You can volunteer or not.
ilsalta
IssacCox
Aah yeah I'm sure the incarcerated would much prefer to stare at a concrete wall all day as they repay their debt to society.
IssacCox
You sure saved the whole penal system with that reform! Good job!
ilsalta
Try researching whats actually going on instead of burying your head in simplistic comic book ideals. The real crooks arn’t behind bars.
ilsalta
What debt? Most of those people are in there for trivial drug offences. Offences that were *designed* to max out the penal population.
Lagunitas707
https://imgur.com/K8V17Zc Why do you think some states have 30+ years for possession of cannabis? private prisons are evil
CrispyNougat
Have you read the 13th amendment lately? Slavery is totally legal.
nonCanadianGoose
Normally yes, but this isn’t a capitalistic for profit venture. It’s literally for society. It’s no different than highway clean up.
nonCanadianGoose
Let’s not act like this is a 1 sided deal, volunteering for this duty using means a reduction in sentence. While I can’t assume the guilt >
nonCanadianGoose
>or innocence of the volunteers, it’s not a bad deal. Especially in a such a widespread disaster
TheRealAlpharius
Yes it fucking was. It's literally right there in the amendment. "Abolish slavery EXCEPT..."
3Davideo
Question: Can that exception be closed by an Act of Congress, or would it require another amendment? (NOT asking whether it would pass.)
abrazenfool
Changing an amendment requires an amendment. See Prohibition
3Davideo
My understanding though is that while the 13th Amendment banned all other forms of slavery, it does not require slavery-by-incarceration >
3Davideo
> to be allowed. By analogy, if the Constitution had a ban on all hats that are not top hats, it wouldn't stop Congress from passing a ban >
FuckmotheringxVampire
Intent and effect can be different things
Minaris
Don't be daft. A bunch of pro slavery people pushed for the 13th to include a loophole, then they opened private for profit slave prisons.
WhatTheFunkBro
...except as a form of punishment. Slavery is legal under the 13th amendment.
flicman
Try telling the gun-coward crowd this, see how fast the "screeeeeeee!" hits ya.
UlfricStormtoke
If they didn't intend to allow slavery in prisons, the ammendment wouldn't say slavery is abolished except as punishment for a crime.
TheRealAlpharius
It was literally intended to continue slavery though. The market demands slave labor.
FuckmotheringxVampire
Yes but it has become a system to incarcerate and keep incarcerated as many people as possible (and mostly POC) for corporate profit instead
FuckmotheringxVampire
Of being a system which tries to rehabilitate and reintegrate people into society.
TheRealAlpharius
That was literally always the point, is what I'm saying. The slavery loophole was put there intentionally. Slavery never went away.
jetflight
Prisoners doing constructive work to pay off their debt to society is good. Taking that stuff way too far is not.
ikbeneengeit
All those dangerous (black) people who got caught with a joint, which is now legal. They better pay off that debt.
jetflight
"I don't understand context and nuance, so I will pick the worst possible interpretation." - you.
Cargobiker530
It's slavery. Play word games all you want but at the end of the day they're slaves.
jetflight
Yes. Please continue to dilute that word. Do your part to get to a place where people will see the word "slavery" and think "Oh, he 1/2
jetflight
doesn't actually mean slavery, he means just punishments for criminal behavior." Y'know, just like with "nazi" and "fascist" went. 2/2
Cargobiker530
It's slavery. Conservatives LIKE slavery because the cruelty is the point, the goal, & their sexual identity. Deal with it.
jetflight
Then you also have to admit that some slavery is good. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Andrzhel
Read your fucking 13th Ammendment. Its right in there. It abolishes slavery "except as a punishment for crime".
jetflight
Well, if you want to call an objectively good thing slavery, then sure, go ahead.
omniikiid
They’re all volunteers and they get time off their sentence. Crappiest part comes post-jail time when they can’t be a firemen because record
GnomeDeGuerre
1 day for 6 days of work, like telling old slaves that they could earn their freedom.
GloomyGusterson
BUT the inmates have a choice to work. You CAN reduce your sentence. You don't have to.
GnomeDeGuerre
A. Slavery often comes with some choices, like earning ones freedom with money, converting to a faith, fighting wars, fire or gladiators. 1/
GnomeDeGuerre
2/ The choice is rarely nice or very free or without heavy sacrifice. B. How many people get to reduce their sentences by how much?