GiantMidgetMan
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Passing down a serious disability to a child is incredibly fucked up. You are knowingly going to make that child's life significantly more difficult just because *you* want to have a kid of your own.
Imagine if an amputee parent cut off some of their child's limbs right when they came out of the womb. Would that be okay? No, it isn't, Isn't it? So how is willingly passing down your disability any different? How!?
I am aware that Hitler did this shit too, but just because Hitler did it, doesn't make it automatically bad. If the only argument against my opinion is "Hitler thought like that too", then you are being intellectually dishonest.
prufock
"Imagine if an amputee" - false equivalency. Amputation impacts an existing victim. The act of reproduction has no existing victim.
AEvilNyanKat
DopeyFuckedaPenguinAgain
Sorry OP but I think you are about to experience down vote syndrome
Raydeeo
With this line of thought we wouldn't have Stephen Hawkings, one of the most brilliant minds on earth.
cleverbeans
Would you let me make medical decisions about your body without your consent? Do you feel comfortable relaxing the right to bodily autonomy?
HadMeSomeChickens
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
SneakEFoxxe
Guys his only other post is a bunch of paintings that didn't gain nearly as many points as his post about eugenics. He is totally Hitler.
Synai
heh
DrunkKingOfImgur
I did nazi that until now
PrometheanHost
Then we need to make sure they get more points so he can go to art college
tremonti
This... Look, man...this isn't how college works. I'm sorry.
PrometheanHost
I don't know what you're talking about. This is totally how it works
tremonti
You may be right, after all.
GiantMidgetMan
Hahahahaha I never really thought about it like that. +1
WizardOfRaz
Inner @OP: this bitch is gonna be the first one in the oven
SneakEFoxxe
Well I have ADHD and am probably genetically inclined to alcoholism, so I suppose it would be his moral duty
GiantMidgetMan
My oven is occupied. Im making cookies. <3
Enoan
And I'm making a nice jewsy pie.
Bennings
"The Imgur eugenics program was short lived; it was cancelled after evidenced showed nobody there was getting laid anyway."
MrsFlemm
We tried that. It's called eugenics. It got out of hand and we figured out that people need to choose for themselves.
analnipple666
Sure, but now were depleting Earth's resources faster than they can replenish because "yay everyone decides". Cool.
Sassmachine
Shhh, we don't want people to know the US did a thing Hitler did!
SendMePicturesOfYourPuppies
"...Just because Hitler did it, doesn't make it automatically bad."
GiantMidgetMan
Hitler painted, therefore painting is bad right?
Cyclopentadien
I have a final solution to the jewish world conspiracy I want to talk to you about.
SendMePicturesOfYourPuppies
Why me ? because I'm a jew ?
SendMePicturesOfYourPuppies
Hitler sucked at painting
TheRealEngali
Your logic is awful.
n8wishim
Problem is, someone will have to decide whats a serious disorder and these people will abuse their power. Only suffering aling this path.
HadMeSomeChickens
I think it's obvious what would disqualify people. Serious stuff, like veganism, and believing in God.
AppleFoster
Imgur Eugenics ™
HadMeSomeChickens
Exactly. I actually believe in God and was a vegetarian for several years.
bertmacklinfbi
Crap, I believe in God. Where do I go to get euthanized?
Krypet004
no no, not you, just your reproductive organs, like commonly done to cats and dogs.
HadMeSomeChickens
Don't admit it on Imgur!
IronicUsername
Nah, fuck you. Passing disabilities isn't a guarantee and, more importantly, you don't get to decide whose lives are worth living.
ABomb0Mori
fallowing that logic, "hey tod! wanna play Russian roulette?" i mean death isn't guaranteed.
justiina
I have reduced mobility caused by genetic disease. I'm quite happy that OP wasn't allowed to decide that I shouldn't exist.
AppleFoster
You're absolutely right! But as someone with a genetic disability - I do wish parents put more thought into the life the child would have.'
ABomb0Mori
fallowing that logic, "hey tod! wanna play Russian roulette?" i mean death isn't guaranteed.
theoreticallyinsane
On the other hand, an unpopular opinion puffin was actually used correctly. So...?
Randomcomma
If it's not insightful, funny, touching, impressive, or valuable in any way, who cares if it follows the rules?
jrntn
It made it to the front page of a community that is widely in favor of eugenics, of course it wasn't used correctly.
penultimatewarrior
I'm having doubts that you should be allowed to reproduce, OP
GiantMidgetMan
I respect your opinion. +1
Bennings
I'm having doubts that he's ever gonna have the chance.
Irrelev4nt
Well. What tells me youre qualified to reproduce. What tells me i cannot define a certain flaw of yours as a disability, because i hate you?
GiantMidgetMan
Good point. But my point is that I can function on my own, and my accommodations (glasses) aren't too burdensome.
cleverbeans
Oh so it's the "other people should do this but not to me or mine" line of reasoning. I can tell you did'nt think this through very well.
MadDrDrillBit
perhaps we should only breed small people cause thay less a carbon footprint, and lactose int so we need few cows, it won't stop Pandora
ThatGuyWhoThinksEveryoneIsAPineapple
Maybe I want glasses to stop being required. Maybe everyone who needs glasses should not be allowed to reproduce to curb the amount!
RandomStranger55
Eugenics on imgur's front page. Wonderful.
GiantMidgetMan
Yeah. It's on the front page because it's unpopular...
Randomcomma
This is just a warm-up for the inevitable post condemning "black culture" or a power fantasy greentext about humiliating a feminist.
UptownFunkgotmeLockedOutOfHeavenwitha24kMagicGrenade
February is next month. I can't wait to see the same race baiting pics on Imgurs FP again.
AishlarSnow
I have a genetic disorder - even if we did want kids, I'd adopt. So much suffering, I wouldn't choose that.
RudolftheRedNosedDuck
Ditto, doctors have told me I would die in childbirth, so I am very pro-choice so I can live. No offense to unborn babies.
Waaahmbulance
That's so selfish of you!! J/k, sorry about your situation/condition. I don't want kids, but really wish I didn't have the curiosity
RudolftheRedNosedDuck
I mean, I don't want them born without a mother, and I don't want to die just to pass on this horrible disorder. I could die from my period.
RudolftheRedNosedDuck
I have a blood disorder that just fucking sucks, and if I don't have to pass it on, I won't.
OlviTheImgurian
Same here. Luckily I am gay, don't even have to worry about passing the gene on.
DontTalkToMeOrMyWaifuEverAgain
Wouldn't want you're kids to catch the gay
DontTalkToMeOrMyWaifuEverAgain
apparently a couple people that I was serious
broloca
And that makes sense, but a law forbidding you from reproducing as being advocated by OP strikes me as very scary.
1mshadowbanned
Then we will have a pure race of superior human. Vermin parasites and undesirables must be weeded out. We will have a great fatherland!
GiantMidgetMan
didn't read the description eh?
1mshadowbanned
I read it.
UnpinionedPoplars
Where you wanted to ignore the most infamous example of gov't sponsored eugenics programs? We read it. Wait... you were serious about dat??
mrmessma
No, just because Hitler did something does not make it bad. But you pick one of the worst things he did.
creedian
With products like CRISPR on the rise, we won't worry about who can breed anymore. Then we get to have the fun discussion of why we 1/2
chase7436
While true, using CRISPR on humans to that degree is still a ways off.
chase7436
While true, using CRISPR on humans to that degree is still a ways off.
creedian
Fix every baby. Then, how far is too far?
imuglyandimproudd
That would require every baby to be born from IVF to eliminate the disease for all future births you would have to edit the sperm/egg cell
creedian
What happens when every parent wants a tall, blue eyed, blonde boy? Do we let people edit their kids to be their perfect child?
Salpinus
1/2Huntingtons and the likes perhaps? What if we find a gene for drug abuse or major depressions? The only thing I "know" as a biologist is
Salpinus
2/2 that most (not all ofc) of these things wouldn't have survived evolution unless they had some sort of advantage.
Salpinus
3/2 though it can be linked to other "good" genes etc.
Mycologics
Slippery slope. First disabled people and where would that end? No interracial couples etc etc
Salpinus
2/2 in line with the current ethics of either the people, the rulers (and peeps get the rulers they "deserve") and those doing "the job".
Salpinus
1/2 Yes, and no. Slippery slope _can_ be argued, but we don't (normally) give abortions past a certain point etc. Our legislation is usually
chase7436
But once the precedent is set, you can't know who will always be determining the criteria. That's the problem. What is a rich populist (1)
chase7436
(2)asshole who thinks success and wealth is genetic gets elected, and suddenly decides no on who makes less than $50,000/year can reproduce?
Salpinus
Then the people who put said person in charge are, at the very least, not reproducing anymore ;) as said: we get the leaders we deserve...
chase7436
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-superior-genes-pbs-documentary-eugenics-a7338821.html
chase7436
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/02/11/donald.trump.marriage.apprentice/
stabstone
Nice try Hitler.
WayTooNewb
Best me too it lol
Alduth
@GiantMidgetMan
Insideanus
Ah so it WAS an Austrian accent!
GiantMidgetMan
I legit lol'd
Theforgottenartoffuckey
scuba7jb
Whoa there's a flag on the play! Let's see the ruling --
ProfessorMorifarty
You know that it isn't an actual law or fallacy, right?
ourari
Godwin's law doesn't prohibit the invocation of Hitler. You should read the actual law.
scuba7jb
True: It says that you've lost the debate / argument...
ourari
No, it doesn't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
scuba7jb
Look it up on Urban dictionary.com... "The person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfieted the argument."
scuba7jb
Did you read the article?? "once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned Hitler has automatically lost"
Cyclopentadien
Imgur on gun control: "The Nazis want to take away our guns. Revolt!" Imgur on forcing a specific group of people to have surgery and taking
dpidcoe
Holy shit! It's almost as if more than 1 person uses imgur!
Cyclopentadien
If I created a Venn-diagramm of people defending gun-rights and people defending reproductive rights I doubt there'd be much overlap.
dpidcoe
er, there are plenty of pro-gun liberals out there :|
Cyclopentadien
away their reproductive rights: "Now that's level-headed, common sense policy!"
Bennings
A bit like how all the "Imma run over those BLM negroes!" crew also condemned the Spencer punch?
Cyclopentadien
Thanks for reminding me of that, I always get slightly nauseous when I read one of those posts/comments.
DwaynElizondoMountainDewHerbertCamacho
If they pose a threat, run them down. Public highways aren't for protests unless authorized by the city.
Bennings
So what do you think about Spencer getting thwacked?
DwaynElizondoMountainDewHerbertCamacho
Seeing as how he is on the street, not blocking traffic, and answering questions; it's a case of assault but well deserved bc of provocation
DwaynElizondoMountainDewHerbertCamacho
His provocation should have been dealt with ASAP as it is a threat to public safety and peace. Should have been escorted away from protests
DwaynElizondoMountainDewHerbertCamacho
But everyone has the right to speak their minds so long as they are not a threat to public security i.e on the sidewalk, not highway
AwesomeName
Next: being gay is declared a genetic disability.
GiantMidgetMan
even if it were a genetic disability, it wouldn't be a serious one.
LinkTheHeroOfWinds
I agree, but ultimately who decides that? If the people in power are anti-gay what stops them from deciding that of "the gays" or anyone
LinkTheHeroOfWinds
from that family line since its generic, aren't overly burdensome due to not falling within the family structure the anti-gay groups
LinkTheHeroOfWinds
designate as correct?
ZVanderberg
You haven't seen the tons of front page posts calling trans people mentally ill?
SwarmLord
Except transgender people and homosexuals are completely different.
YaFavBoiChris
Exactly. The lists shouldn't be associated with eachother....
YaFavBoiChris
It's apparently something wrong with their brains in most cases, so yes, it is a mental issue. Not in the case of parents' force, though...
gcgoncalves
Impossiburu. Almost all gay people is conceived by straight people (except for gay people who have kids while still in the closet).
chase7436
You're making some very dangerous assumptions. Just because a gay person doesn't have children doesn't mean their genes aren't passed (1)
chase7436
(2)down. Siblings share, on average, 50% of their genes. In fact,a gene that is linked to homosexuality in males is also linked to increased
chase7436
(3)fertility in females- an evolutionary advantage that propagates the gene. http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v5/n12/full/nrg1510.html
gcgoncalves
Anyways, if said sibling had a "sleeping gay gene" and had gay kids, he/she would still be a straight person giving bitrth to a gay child.
gcgoncalves
It's more likely to be affected by multiple genes. And we can't risk out factors such as crossing-over and mutation.
gcgoncalves
There is no such thing as a "Gay Gene" (again, except for my gay cousin Gene), as there are many shades of homossexuality.
Pandaphant
There isn't a person alive that isn't passing on some disability via genetics.
Pandaphant
I guess I should say "wouldn't be" because let's be honest, most people on this site will never actually pass them on.
GiantMidgetMan
I specifically said "Serious" disabilities. I'm not talking about people who need glasses and shit like that.
Pandaphant
Not being able to see a few feet in front of them is pretty fucking serious for many people. Where do you draw the line?
GiantMidgetMan
Hmm.. "Where do [ I ] draw the line".. good question. Im not too sure, because it isnt black and white but i'd say, as long as the 1/2
GiantMidgetMan
condition doesn't require too much accommodation such as handlers and special schooling. Though im not sure. 2/2
SwiftBlackWolf
whoops meant to reply here. Anyway. Eugenics, even done as politely as possible and unlike hitler, has great room for serious corruption.
SwiftBlackWolf
It isn't black and white. Therefor its WRONG to hand out the ability to take your basic right to starting a family to a government.
Memesters123
Don't forget, people can still get chronic/terminal conditions from healthy people too. You have carriers, mutations etc.
LateNightBunnyParty
Yup. My husband's parents were both carriers without symptoms, he wasn't diagnosed 'til after we had our daughter, and she's a carrier too.
Ayzay
So basically everyone should stop reproducing as that would be best for the human species. Got it.
GiantMidgetMan
Really now? I'm going to have to look into that.
OSCgal
That's how cystic fibrosis gets passed on. Most people who are carriers are unaware.
Memesters123
So there's a 25% chance of getting the two alleles when animals reproduce. The offspring will suffer from the disease if it has both.
NotTheSharpestSpoonInTheDrawer
I'm disappointed OP, so I'm revoking your euthanasia privileges
LateNightBunnyParty
Yup. I posted it in another comment, but my hubby's parents were unknowing carriers of Gitelman Syndrome. He was diagnosed with it after 1/
LateNightBunnyParty
2/ our daughter was already born. She was born a carrier without symptoms just like her grandparents. Billy had a vasectomy after finding 3/
LateNightBunnyParty
3/ out. We didn't want more kids anyway, and vasectomy was always in the plan, but now there's no chance of him passing on his genes again.
0100101001010010
Yup, alleles and genes
Memesters123
Yeah, many diseases passed down are by carriers. They carry one recessive allele, and two are required to express what it codes for. (1/2)
BeatsBearsBattlestarGallactica
OP's gotta go back to high school biology and watch Lorenzo's Oil
romanaclef
A significant number of common genetic disorders are autosomal recessive, meaning there is a good chance parents don't know they carry..
romanaclef
Even if they do, both parents have to carry for there to be a 25% prob of a symptomatic child. Even if one parent is a sufferer, if the..
romanaclef
..other isn't the child won't be either. If both parents suffer there's still a 50% chance the child won't either. Mothers with X-linked...
romanaclef
..recessive traits might not know they carry either. People with autosomal dominant disorders are less likely to have children for a whole..
Predacane35
While that's true and OP has already responded, the post is aimed at people who knowingly have something they will pass on.
romanaclef
In reality though, sufferers of autosomal dominant illnesses are unlikely to have children.
GapingAnalCavity
Sure you CAN but that doesn't invalidate OP's point.
romanaclef
The only answer to that is universal genetic screening...
MadDrDrillBit
the designer baby argument comes full circle. After a few generations there's nothing but defects from no gen diversity.3 parents maby
romanaclef
To be honest, human genomics is such a briar patch that once you go in screening whole populations you might never come out. We're full of..
romanaclef
..potentially deleterious mutations. Sorting the wheat from the chaff would be a nightmare. Better to stop us all from breeding and give...
Memesters123
True, but the point was that diseases can be passed on even when people don't have it themselves. Also people can pass on Huntingtons (1/2)
Memesters123
Disease because it usually affects people later on in life after they have had children. Sometimes they don't know they have it. (2/2)
MoparGoVroomVroom
But your point is irrelevant to the post, because the post is about people who knowingly pass their disability on.
Memesters123
I disagree. It is relevant. Stopping people from knowingly passing on diseases will not stop people from suffering from diseases.
HopeHubris
No, but it would lower the amount of people suffering from diseases
caramelballoffur
His point isn't completely stopping people from suffering diseases either. so yes, your point is irrelevant
evilspock
The issue is "shouldn't be allowed". By whom, on what authority?
Quilboar
the gummint's authority
gcgoncalves
Right? Are we in Sparta, now?
chooseday
By kids, like OP, who don't think about their silly comments.
thundercactus
I would assume the problem would be identified and outlined by geneticists, and a medical ethics committee, then voted upon by the people.
evilspock
The problem is that historically that's not how it goes down. The ruling elite makes those decisions, until they are overthrown.
thundercactus
It's traditionally been instilled by dictatorships. It worked well in Sparta for a short time before eugenics ended up reducing their...
thundercactus
numbers to the point where their society was militarily threatened by an only decently trained sizeable army.
thundercactus
It's traditionally been instilled by dictatorships. It worked well in Sparta for a short time before eugenics ended up reducing their...
Elroydb
You can't vote to take away someone's reproductive rights
thundercactus
You asked a question, I answered it. That's how it would go down, and then fail in the legal process due to human rights violations.
Elroydb
Fair enough
analnipple666
A right? What is a right? No, it's a biological capacity. You physically (likely) can do it, doesn't automatically make it a right.
Elroydb
Hey that's great. You've been designated as prime breeding stock to make up for the shortfall and must be caretaker of no less than 5
Elroydb
children at any one time until the age of 60
thundercactus
It's a basic human right as laid out by the human rights committee.
scuba7jb
Vasectomy at age 27! I've got a bunch of health problems and so does the wife... We're "not good breeding stock" and we embrace reality.
cheeseguy3412
Same here, I have a number of genetically inherited health issues, decided long ago i'm not giving this shit to anyone else.
RiddSann
Takes a LOT of balls man, I'm probably too young to even begin to understand the extent of what you did, but man, that deserves respect
goforthandconquer
that is heartbreaking...but also incredibly brave of you.
InitHello
Mine at 32. I'm good stock, technically, but would not be a good father.
PackedCatMeowingPowerDensity
Am gay. I think my fashion sense is terrible and should not be applied to children. (Oh god, someone thought of the children?)
TheWayADrillWorks
Is fashion sense genetic or memetic though?
goforthandconquer
that is heartbreaking...but also incredibly brave of you.
JCrashB
In the name of Charles Darwin: Thank you!
Cernd
mutation & "natural" selection is the driver for life. I'm actually not sure Darwin would say that.
Mimsey
You embrace pop culture. Reality is we're curing these illnesses every day and gene editing is the future. You're diminishing our gene pool.
GGBrianD
But if gene editing is the future, they can edit other peoples genes so the pool is wider right?
Mimsey
Not really. Being able to retool current genetic stock is entirely different, and coming far sooner, than engineering entirely new traits.
TheWayADrillWorks
So neon green skin isn't coming any time soon? What about introducing chloroplasts to the cells?
DreaminFree
I have a ton of health issues, at least one of which is caused solely by a genetic mutation. I will never have kids. And honestly if I 1/?
DreaminFree
Get pregnant I will most likely have an abortion for that reason. 2/2
Ragnarok1030
There's a difference between making that choice for yourselves and forcing that choice on someone
carterc0129
A little hypocritical when a parent makes the choice to force their genetic disability onto their kids.
PolaroidDickPics
A splendid point.
LillyVixen
Wife and I can't breed, but we both have some serious problems that we wouldn't want to pass on either. Yay for understanding!
gnomedeplume
Personal choice not the same as unilateral decision about reproductive rights
peacekitty13
Good for you though, realizing the legitimate highlights of bringing in a human with troubles. This works is hard enough to live in
peacekitty13
World not works
syddevious
I too got a vasectomy at age 27. I'm tots healthy. But the world is overpopulated and I'm in deep financial debt.
blackfox1122
Same, friend! Except the vasectomy part, I have to get spayed the other way
TeflonTrout
I think it's always better for a man to be sterilized instead of a woman, as it's much less severe. While safe, tubes are a little riskier.
blackfox1122
It feels weird asking him to get a vasectomy when I'm the one with the nonsense genetics. It's hard finding someone to do it though.
TeflonTrout
Understandab, although you two are a team. Either way the team takes a short term hit for longterm gain; one hit is smaller than the other.
blackfox1122
You make a valid point +1
wafflesmgee
I'm a heavily single 20 year old lad and, despite my stuff not being 'severe', I would still prefer to adopt over fathering a child.
Starkgray
Ive got a chronic autoimmune pain condition that my grandma and i share that makes every day agony and pretty serious OCD. I cant (1)...
Starkgray
(2) let another child suffer just because i want children... itd be cruel
hwatL4bloopy
Did you adopt
scuba7jb
Sure did. This poor guy spent years chained to a garage... we contacted the people and adopted him. :-) --
hwatL4bloopy
He looks great! Eventually a human too?
earlobe
oh my god he is glorious
z3lfmoord
What health problems?
voodoochilie
That's a tough one buddy.
Theunholydownvoter
You couls still adopt if you want kids. You are also a good human.
flamingflamingo
Meanwhile I know a guy who's father died of some kind of palsy at 35. He was just diagnosed as well, so he had a son while he still can. -_-
Jazmynejayy
Hey just to let you know you should get that checked yearly. My husband and I decided not to reproduce and now we have 7 week old.
captainkip8606
I recently made the decision to get a vasectomy, so that's good to know.
Jazmynejayy
I'm not saying it's not good birth control. But don't believe it won't happen to you because we did and then bam baby!
captainkip8606
I'm not saying it changed my mind. Just that it's good to know that I need to make sure it sticks.
Jazmynejayy
I warn everyone now lol. We truly thought we were safe. Now I'm getting a tubal and he's getting his big V redone.
Jazmynejayy
His vasectomy failed like 5 years after he got it.
nudistpriest
Life... Finds a way.
Jazmynejayy
ain't that the truth!
DoctorOwly
Hey did your insurance cover that or did you pay out of pocket? Fiance wants to get one but idk if we can pay thousands upfront.
scuba7jb
I got my nuts whacked in 2009.... I paid $35 for the pre-op consultation. Then insurance covered 100% of the $1150 surgery bill :-)
DoctorOwly
That's awesome! Thank you, I'll have him speak to our doctor about it and see if it'll be covered for him too!
brrota
Studies have shown that increased knowledge of cystic fibrosis decreases incidence of the disease. All we need to do is spread awareness 1/2
brrota
And people will do the rest. Most of the time hopefully. 2/2
IntrovertTurtle
My mom calls my husband a "sickly man" and in the same breath doesn't get why we're not reproducing. Thank you!
MouseShadow
I'm glad you were able to make that choice! But the post you commented on proposes that choice be removed from the equation. Do you agree?
gonnaneedadoctor
So where does this put everyone on the Social Economic totem pole for reproduction? Should you, and is it ethically problematic to have...
gonnaneedadoctor
Kids while on welfare or any other burdening social program?
Mursumus
Same here. Would never want to pass my pains to a child. Dont know how a small kid could ever live with this suffering.
fulminatrix
As a small child who inherited chronic pain, I resented my mother for a long time. I didn't know hers started after I was born. Today 1
fulminatrix
at 25 years old, I had to make plans for surgery to prevent my body from falling apart as early as hers did, and my grandmother before her.2
fulminatrix
Even if I weren't probably barren and psychologically unsuitable (childhood chronic illness fucks you up), I would never have kids. 3/3
Mursumus
My situation is never fixed by operation. But still, i hope everything goes well for you.
Cheomesh
Thank you for doing the eugenically responsible thing. Now, about the social burden of your health issues?
LadyCottonHead
That must be a very difficult thing to realise and come to terms with. Good on you.
LateNightBunnyParty
We have one daughter, who is a carrier, but my husband found out he has Gitelman Syndrome in 2011. 1/
LateNightBunnyParty
2/ We didn't want more kids anyway, but he had a Vasectomy after learning this.
afterdinneromelets
Agreed. Having asthma has sucked so bad for me that I honestly don't think I will ever bring a kid into this world & risk passing it on.
aWiseSageOnceSaid
Asking for a friend, any negative side affects from the vasectomy? They're in a similar situation
scuba7jb
Nah. I had it done by an old school urologist and got 2 big incisions, but even still I was back to 100% a week later. Totally worth doing!
scuba7jb
Just be sure to use alternate birth control for a few months. It takes a while for all the swimmers to get cleared from your plumbing. :-)
syddevious
One side effect. Amazing sex with no worries or surprises. When with a clean partner.
Jazmynejayy
There is still the chance for the tubes to grow back or for you to have an alternative tube that they missed. I have a 5 yr post V baby sooo
ConcreteMelon
Less than 1% percent if you do post vasectomy semen analysis max 6 months after the procedure.
Jazmynejayy
I hear ya but my husband had been testing his semen for a year after. Always the all clear. & he still had it grow back. It depends on the
Jazmynejayy
Way the doc did it too. You want cut clipped and cauterize (he was) you also want him to take as much out as possible when he does. So 1%
InitHello
There's a possibility of some cramping in the cremaster muscles for a few weeks after, especially during orgasm. Some chance of pain.
[deleted]
[deleted]
CPatricoo
Ok but can this be expressed in a way that shows you have an education?
eavenPayne
Lemme try. Only fools fear vasectomies, being able to perform coitus with no fear of children, as well as the benefit of not needing a (1/2)
eavenPayne
Condom enhances the experience trifold (2/2)
jewjiffshoes
adaemman
lol well it was an am shitter post, so my thoughts were very neat and fancy. 1/2
adaemman
2/3 a vasectomy is a simple out patient procedure. Most males are very misinformed about the procedure which causes them to fear it. 3/3
tufkab
Your balls will be sore for three days. Literally, that's it. Do it; my only regret is not doing it earlier.
saltandsunshine
You have answered my questions and I thank you, take my upvotes
theloneponderer
Fun fact: many guys get the procedure done during March Madness so they can stay at home and watch basketball while recuperating.
DocVolt
Can a man still ejaculate?
scuba7jb
Sperm is only 5% of "content" ... The volume is virtually identical and sensation is unchanged. :-)
leodavinci1
Still could account for a taste difference.
aWiseSageOnceSaid
Most of the ejaculatory fluid is to keep the sperm alive and healthy so they can crack the egg. All you do is get rid of the swimmers but (1
aWiseSageOnceSaid
Keep the coaches and nutritionists (2/2)
rbudrick
Buddy had it done. His wife said it tasted different.
tufkab
Oh yeah. You'll notice absolutely no physical difference.
TeflonTrout
Hahaha, my exact words, "oh yeah"
CapCharlston
How much did it cost? Asking for a friend too
TotallyNotAnAlt
That's a hard decision, but probably the right one. Do you two plan on adopting?
eavenPayne
Hard decision? You get more money free time and never have to take care of any kids. Sounds like a good time here
TooTightSpeedo
You two sound like entirely reasonable people, I'm glad the world has you.
Boller36
That's another point-anyone (okay most) can adopt kids if they want them that bad
jcarn
Not a hard decision for me and my partner. We hate kids and love freedom
scuba7jb
Nah, I've got psychological "baggage" and I want nothing to do with kids... The cycle of ignorance & stupidity is going to end with me. :-)
TheJabs
Yay im not alone!
Aurulious
My hero! If only more of the world thought like this.
BrianMFTurner
I'm just a small town beekeeper, but if you pm me your address Iwill mail you some honey as a thanks for being responsible.
JadeEye
What about your wife? Sorry, not cause I'm trying to be an asshole to you, I just think it's important to remember that women get 1/2
JadeEye
Different biological stuff the older they get, I've known women who were convinced child free, but once they got to 35 y.o they got 2/3
JadeEye
Pregnant just for the sake of it, not even with a dad in a picture. Not saying it'll happen to your wife, just raising awareness I guess?..
chickHen
Respect to you!
eliavchik
This comment alone should be the reason you and your wife adopt.
fulminatrix
This sounds like me whenever I get married. Psychologically and bodily unsuitable, and I don't want kids anyway. Gonna get sterilized.
MikeTornado
Go enjoy your bags of money then.
jumpoff69
Perhaps donate some to a charity that you feel connected to.
css3485
And all the spare time and freedom you have with those bags of money! Lol
scuba7jb
agreed. :-D --
Strawberrryy
If the argument "Hitler did it, it must be bad" were true then I'd have bad news for any aspiring painters
DickMercenary
And Volkswagens would be hella illegal.
IAlwaysUpvoteDumps
And anyone who campaigns to ban smoking.
BeadyEyed123
I'm good with segregating smokers from non-smokers though. And anti-vaxxers from people with brains for that matter.
AcidOPhilus
And my variables from my ODE.
BeadyEyed123
Letters in math. Who would've ever thunk it?
Immolator1001
Except eugenics was kind of key to the whole killing people thing... Painting not so much...
DrKriegersClone
Remember to make sure the trains don't run on time, just to be safe.
OliverClothesoff70
Or road builders.
dmax12
The US did it too, equally still bad as we accepted the idea that not being normal/us is an acceptable reason to remove human rights
valen00
Or dog owners
RootEnoch
I can't get ze trees right. Damn! I will kill everybody in ze world!
DVSBSTrD
LadyPotatas
Not even war heroes are safe or aspiring writers either!
amop
better not breathe
pres2pond
It's OK, Hitler did landscapes and still life, so as long as you only do modern art, you're safe.
pres2pond
P.S. And by still life, I mean painting dogs. JUST LIKE GEORGE W BUSH! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
Boller36
True his paintings were pretty good as well
RTBackup
Hitler ate sugar.
ColdWaterCrossing
Aww, dammit! (Hitler actually wasn't a horribly bad painter though)
SwedishBalls
Pretty sure "Hitler was alright" when it comes to his genes.
DVSBSTrD
Actually, his body was a mess.
SwedishBalls
So it seems after a google search. Can't imagine just having one ball, I'd be so not plural.
SecondSince
Hitler loved dogs. Ergo everyone that loves dogs is a Nazi.
NietzschesLaughter
I can agree with this. Dogs suck.
techpariah
Architectural watercolors are just right out.
StaringAtSidewalks
And recyclers.
raptorsoldier
Hitler loved animals, that must be bad
Isaypoopythingsbecausemostofyouannoyme
Or anyone thinking of committing suicide.
HOOMANGUY
Starting to select who can and cant breed sounds pretty hitler to me.
amop
theres credence to the consideration of whats best for humanity, being scared to draw the lines doesnt make it less objectively beneficial
amop
theres credence to the consideration of whats best for humanity, being scared to draw the lines doesnt make it less objectively beneficial
HOOMANGUY
The road to hell is plastered with guys that said "the ends justify the means".
amop
i like 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' but i see your point. however, humanity has always taken risky sacrifice with 1/?
amop
greater good over neutrality and moral peace of mind. just take a look at: imperialism, industrialism, agriculture, pretty much any 2/?
some1username
Pretty sure Hitler drank water, too!
ScotlandSaysFuckYouLongshanks
Apparently he doesn't even have a butthole
dotcomaphobe
Every serial killer in history drank dihydrogen monoxide!!!
IronCretin
dj505
What about inhaling oxygen? O_O
eskamobob1
oh god. Does that mean im secretly a nazi?
WithPride
You drink water which he did and inhale oxygen which he did! Join your local Neo Nazis today! It's where you belong, you filth!~
TotallySaneScientist
There's nothing secret about it, ya socialist bastard.
eclect0
Except eugenics wasn't some side thing that he did. It was inseparably woven in to the greatest atrocities his regime committed.
houtaku
So was socialized medicine. Can't have all those genetically undesirable folks costing the people all that money, can we?
houtaku
Or is it possible that separate ideas can be judged by their own merits?
Nineteenletterslong
Next you're going to tell me Hitler didn't bomb Pearl Harbor.
eclect0
HermeneuticalQuandary
people upvoting this should also upvote the previous comment
PleasantPeasantPheasant
I'm honestly not against a controlled form of it. No more genetic diseases? fuck yes and thank you.
HermeneuticalQuandary
So what genetic conditions would be included/excluded? Where do you draw the line?
GlassPHLEGM
Who will watch the watchmen?
eclect0
Define "controlled." I mean in the first place, what's the penalty for illegally reproducing?
HermeneuticalQuandary
"First lets not let the jews, gypsies, blacks, or cripples reproduce and we'll adjust from there" -nazi apologist, probably
GlassPHLEGM
Crippling debt. Oh wait that's any reproducing.
PleasantPeasantPheasant
Science is almost at a point where it can take out the 'broken dna' that would cripple your kid and repair it wouldn't you want that?
Studoku
Emphasis on "almost". And "x shouldn't be allowed to reproduce" is very different from prenatal screening.
eclect0
The original posit is that people with genetic conditions "shouldn't be allowed" to reproduce. So what happens if they do?
okayigiveup
The only problem I see with this is that it takes away some peoples freedoms, and at that point it becomes grey and people go too far.
gaenaralhonk
Literally every law either gives or takes some of people's freedoms
usernamestaketoomucheffort
It's the people going too far that concerns me. Give people an inch and next thing you know only models and athletes can have kids.
UndercoverDumbledore
Exactly, I have psoriasis (like eczema) would I be told no? Where would the line be drawn?
DoctorOwly
The interesting thing to note is that humans are the odd ones- in the rest of the animal kingdom, genetic selection and pruning happens 1/2
DoctorOwly
Naturally, and animals with illness or bad genes don't get to mate, they die and don't spread their genes. We as humans think to protect 2/3
DoctorOwly
Other's rights we shouldn't control breeding population. It's a very hard topic, but in reality our species and the rest of the planet 3/4
DoctorOwly
Would benefit from SOME selective breeding. At 7billion+ humans we should be culling our own population like other animals do. 4/4
DrKriegersClone
It doesn't have to be. e.g. subsidize IVF, screen for and only implant the healthy embryos.
n8wishim
This is the main problem.
Bakkeri
I agree with op but I would consider it more of a sense of responsibility. People with such conditions shouldn't be forced to not have (1/2)
Bakkeri
kids, but definitely should give it some real thought before conceiving a child likely to inherit a disability. I feel its unfair to the kid
popejubal
I'm 100% on board with that. There are a lot of people who shouldn't have kids. But I don't think we should decide for them.
cleverbeans
I can't see how there is any grey area here. It violates bodily autonomy which is a serious breach of human rights.
whitepolarbear
Getting sterile should be covered by the govt for free. Better to have no kids than to have the government assistance with raising one.
eclect0
This a thousand times. Eventually, "questions the policies of our glorious leader" would be considered a genetic disorder.
thundercactus
Snowball argument isn't a great defence when used by itself. It's used to argue against hate speech laws in the US frequently, saying...
thundercactus
that any infringement of free speech will snowball into police state government censorships. Fact of the matter is most 1st world nations...
thundercactus
have laws against hate speech and the only place they are really subjectively oppressive is Germany.
okayigiveup
I believe it's less of a question of if we should stop them from having children, but how can we stop the disabilities from being passed on.
kermie92
But also be able to recognize that parents who have some disabilities or diseases wnt be able to care for a child longterm or w/o assistance
thundercactus
Genetic modification satisfies both conditions, but then there's the negative baseless stigma attached.
GiantMidgetMan
How else can you stop a genetic disorder aside from preventing reproduction?
Oglogoth
There's always eugenics, another thing Hitler was into, he's surprisingly on both sides of this argument.
anonymousrubberducky
Dude. Even people who don't have genetic disorders can have children who do. Having a genetic disorder doesn't make you worth anything less.
GiantMidgetMan
I'm not saying that people with genetic disorders are anything less, and i'm not denying the fact that genetic disorders can occur 1/2
GiantMidgetMan
without a parent with the disorder. I just forgot that could happen when i made the comment.
mostlyjustheretoupvotefunnycomments
Seems kinda silly you got downvoted for asking a question... so you get a +1 from me.
eclect0
Cure it.
HideyoWifeHideyoKids
As of right now I think that's the only way.
eclect0
We're getting close, though. There are people alive today who may get to see a cure for their genetic disorder.
promnitedumpsterbaby
So mandatory sterilization?
AllHailAzathoth
They do have ways to fix hereditary abnormalities in utero, and CRISPR technology will eventually be able to fix them as well.
Tamaska
I can't wait for CRISPR
feeltheice
CRISPR ??
fesssstif
It's a function on a microwave oven
fesssstif
It's a function on a microwave oven
Secsletariat
I'm not a scientist but I believe the tl;dr is that it's a pretty good method for gene therapy. Cheaper or more precise or something better.
ImOldGreggAndIDrinkBaileysFromAShoe
Who gets to decide what a "serious genetic disability" is.
NatBeAt
The one whos had it or the one who looks after.
KittyDurkee
It should never be a law- merely decided by would be, mature parents.
JPre35
Nature does this already no? My step dad has CF(55 and couting there is hope friends!)..and is infertile
minant
http://imgur.com/ueJez27
tornadofneedles
Not agreeing with this because the choices are hard is not a good enough reason
MyPalmsSpaghettiKneesWeakArmsSpaghettiTheresVomitOnMySpaghetti
Hitler
SloMoHippo
That would be me! And yes, stupidity is a serious genetic disability in my book.
MobiusAzarath
Typically stuff that requires constant help. Unable to sustain their life alone.
DojerKnight
A very good question, one that should be discussed
dracomageat
The other potential parent.
SerialKitten666
A medical professional? There are numerous disorders that greatly negatively impact quality of life and are highly genetic.
broloca
Would we elect this medical professional? How about other medical professionals with opposing opinions? It just seems like a dangerous game
SerialKitten666
You misunderstand. Not ONE professional, your own doctor, several doctors if you like. This is a thing doctors already do TBH, they advise
broloca
I think advising is a great idea. My issue is OP's opinion that certain people should not be allowed to reproduce.
SerialKitten666
I think it's a statement people say too harshly. Like no one should be forcibly sterilized or arrested or forced to abort BUT it might be
thundercactus
Look at how ethics committees function at hospitals. They specialize in these ethically questionable arguments.
dracomageat
The other potential parent.
thundercactus
Hospitals have ethics committees. I assume it would be a national ethics committee with many biologists involved. Suffice it to say; the...
thundercactus
prohibitive disabilities would be IDENTIFIED by the committee, and then action VOTED upon by the people.
thundercactus
Although I suspect the whole idea may just be unconstitutional? I don't know, I haven't read the thing.
dreikommavierzehn
voting on this without sufficient data (which we don't have about the genome), results in enforcing beliefs. See analogous to this Switzerla
dreikommavierzehn
nd. Homeopathy has been voted (by the people) to be accepted as medicine, albeit not having any scientific data to support it.
thundercactus
I totally agree with that whole statement!
MyLastUsernameWasSoLongIKeptForgettingIt
Some families like mine are extremely prone to both cancers and severe psychological issues. I'm not passing that shit down.
dreikommavierzehn
that applies to so many people though. I'd have to check numbers but it could very well be the majority of the population.
dreikommavierzehn
Most people get cancer sooner or later as it seems. And I'd guess every third has some sort of (undiagnosed) mental illness.
ularg
@OP has green eyes, he's impure, purge him and his blood line!
baronramsey
OP is a faggot, don't want more faggots, OP doesn't get to reproduce.
Atalung
This, I probably have lynch syndrome, and while it's easily inherited it doesn't cause problems till late in life
Willowofwisp
I have the inherited form of RLS (which causes uncontrollable muscle spasms and tactile hallucinations). It gets worse through age and 1/2
Willowofwisp
Generations. My sister doesn't appear to have it though, so I don't think it's a 100% chance to pass on 2/2
broloca
This. What OP is opining is on the road to eugenics. Not that he necessarily means that, but it is that type of thinking that leads there.
TheImperiumOfMankind
I mean... To be fare eugenics would work to advance the human species betterer. Not saying it should happen, just that itd work
IHaveComeToBargain
"Betterer" okay so we found one who doesn't get to reproduce
TheImperiumOfMankind
And we all just hope you dont <3
SneakEFoxxe
I mean, he didn't say that it would be bad if they did, he said they shouldn't be allowed to, so that kinda is what he is saying.
thundercactus
Sparta had eugenics. Worked great. Only problem was, come one day, they ended up not having the numbers to wage war anymore.
SexyKetchupFactory
And what if the probability of passing on the disease is less than 100%? Where is the cutoff? 50%? 25%? Who decides?
YuJinX5
16.6% is the cut off, and let level headed utilitarians decide
zeroofshadow
thats an arbatariy number, and there is no such thing as a level headed person, we all have a bias and humans are temperamental
Chpgmr
Fair enough, but when that is dealt with do we continue with the next worse one? and the next? and the next? where is the line?
ScienceGoneTooFar
I'm not a doctor but you have a 50% of fucking up your child's life you're pretty fucked up. You should adopt, there are tons of kids
Studoku
How many children have you adopted? Is it loads?
ScienceGoneTooFar
Great question, unfortunately I am not able to adopt a child at this time. However, our goal is in the next 5-10 yrs to do foster care
TheAccursedHamster
So you haven't done so yet then? Until you do, you're the same as everyone else.
ScienceGoneTooFar
that need a family
InquisitiveRaptor
something like Huntington's which is always fatal and strongly inherited.
AllTheGoodUsernamesWereTaken
Maybe you'd rather not have Huntington's, but plenty of people have it and live happy fulfilling lives. Would you be willing to be medically
AllTheGoodUsernamesWereTaken
castrated if you had Huntington's to prevent passing it on?
prufock
Wikipedia: "Symptoms usually begin between 30 & 50 years" and "Death typically occurs 15-20 years from when the disease was first detected."
InquisitiveRaptor
the thing about Huntington's is, you're right, it doesn't appear until later. Which is really scary because you usually don't know you have
InquisitiveRaptor
already reproduced. However, it is a debilitating, degenerative brain disease and those who have it usually end up dying of aspiration or
InquisitiveRaptor
something like that. Point is, since it's a strongly inherited disease, preventing it via these measures would probably be the most useful
ImOldGreggAndIDrinkBaileysFromAShoe
My uncle had Huntingtons, its a terrible disease, but by that rational, my entire family, who probably dosent have it, wouldn't be here.
plsnerfloneliness
Huntingtons is nearly always passed down due to it being a dominant allele, also on the other side it's impossible to see unless person old
CaptinCuddles
Or like I have haemophilia, which cannot be passed to male children, but if you have a female child they will be a carrier and their son 1/2
CaptinCuddles
Will have the disorder, also it's a 'royal' genetic disorder so as a brit I'm cool with it
SecondSince
Dutchy here with haemophilia. We also still have a king. Are we sensing a pattern? :O
geckin
Unless you're suggesting mandatory genetic screening this wouldn't necessarily work for HD. Not everyone with a HD parent wants to know
analnipple666
Sure but then you're being negligent, because you're actively avoiding responsibility
jiggypep
i mean, if you're planning on having a kids and know you might possibly have it, testing should be required.
WardSharlow
Life is always fatal and strongly inherited. You need a better standard.
InquisitiveRaptor
don't be like that...clearly we are talking about quality of life here
WardSharlow
A person with Huntingtons can live 50 years without any problems, and you're saying it would be better if he never was born.
InquisitiveRaptor
It usually starts presenting in the 30's and there's rapid decline after onset. Seriously debilitating. It would suck to have 30 years of
UnintentionalMasculineMicroaggressions
Sooooo, where would you draw the line exactly - when it should be disallowed to reproduce. What would be the enforcement mechanism? 1/2
blkbox
Voluntary self-enforcement would be a good start.
dpidcoe
We've had good luck cutting down on smoking and unprotected sex via media campaigns, why not do the same for genetic testing? Don't 1/2
dpidcoe
enforce anything by law, just make testing easily available and educate people about adopting instead of risking passing on a disorder. 2/2
MissSiesta
Possibly legalise "picking healthy embryos" that have been tested. Then people can make their own decision
mechanicalchaos
See, I too believe in this. But it's way too much of a slippery slope to make it a law. Evolution demands diversity.
TwoVhsCopiesOfGoodfellas
I think just education would be best, when laws come in stating who can and cannot reproduce it's start looking a lot like eugenics.
decorativemooseknuckle
I have a congenital bicuspid valve that I get echoes for but wicked happy I was born nonetheless I'm sure people worse off feel the same.
plekpot
hardytardigrade
These are the important questions.
Glamdring
There's a fantastic episode of Black Mirror on this. S03Ep04 I think.
funmaster524
Like, I have celiac disease. That has shown serious trends in being linked to heredity. Should I be allowed?
Talentless916
As long as you can provide without assistance from others constantly....have them babies.
randomdudewhocommentsrandomstuff
this.
Sprixxen
Nowhere. Government sponsored eugenics is inherently anti-liberal. It can only be done morally via education and personal choice.
Sprixxen
That's the problem w/ this argument that always comes up on imgur. People forget we have liberal principles that hold society together.
deadandbloated
Blonde hair, blue eyes. Maybe greenies like me could qualify for a waver.
SidneyHarbor
If they vote for (____insert political party that isnt yours here___).
ohmegatron
Both of my parents have poor eyesight, and mine is better than all of my peers. Should I never have been born?
Salpinus
1/? CPS (in Norway) will sometimes take children into foster care if the parents' disability is too major (e.g. Downs). Basically parents
Salpinus
5/? but as you stated, where should a line be drawn (even just as a moral "obligation" to not reproduce)? Personally I have, and so does
Salpinus
2/? may not keep their custodial rights, though they'll have visiting time etc (for those unenlightened; foster care =/= adoption). But for
Salpinus
8/8 sure they don't take some of the same paths I did, unknowing of what was "wrong" with me.
Salpinus
7/? enough IQ to become a Mensa member for that matter. I want kids, but am aware that I'll have to take some extra precautions to make sure
Salpinus
3/? how one can make sure those with major genetic disorders will not reproduce? Don't think Norways way if sterilising people (gypsies; up
Salpinus
4/? until late 60's) is the way to go... So I think genetic tests (free of charge) is better. E.g. Huntingtons can skip generations.
Salpinus
6/? many in my family, some psychological issues. Both mine and my parent's generation live fulfilling lives nonetheless. I have just a high
Agrobastacar
You would have to have a list of defects passed into law by elected legislators and subject to review. Like any law.
superbest
Perhaps legalizing later term abortions if the condition can be diagnosed at that point
gamblingpoet
So we want to force women to have abortions now?
dhaskjdhawyajhdbsdbgwakjhbdnmcckclkklkl
He only said legalize, not force.
DPCerberusBlaze
legalize != force
superbest
Exactly! Just to make the option available
gamblingpoet
But again, what will the punishment be if a woman with a genetic disorder gets pregnant?
AnalTelescope
Boi, this is imgur. That is a question for a large scale debate with people of higher importance and education on the matter
plasmarob
As a person of higher importance and education, every mature adult deserves a vote. Too much is left to blindly following "experts" lately.
plasmarob
Great examples are hybrid car laws, solar and wind power in US. Tech isn't ready, isn't green, inefficient, but "experts" rake in $ for it.
AnalTelescope
Dude, I was just saying that he was asking the question to the wrong person, he's an imgur OP throwing out an idea
thundercactus
if only educated and qualified people have a say, the population riots for being left out. If it's done through referendum, too many people
AnalTelescope
Dude, I was just saying that he was asking the question to the wrong person, he's an imgur OP throwing out an idea
thundercactus
are voting purely on an emotional basis instead of rational. Touchy subject I guess?
GoCorral
I think the natural, "people with severe disabilities have a harder time finding someone and conceiving," is enough.
Alpine2Ocean
I have a 17 yo student on his 2nd kid. He has disabilities & barely can spell more than his name. He's not the only 1 in my school either.
Spinbot11
As someone who works with adults with DD, they can and do have sex at any point they are able. With other disabled people. And have kids.
GoCorral
As far as I can tell DD is a disease that affects cows. I feel like that's not what you meant. What did you mean?
Spinbot11
Developmental disabilities. Sorry lol
FabulousOtters
Interesting point. But although theoretically these diseases would go away, they obviously haven't yet. What about 1/2
FabulousOtters
the ones that don't manifest until after young adulthood, when people might have already had children?
GoCorral
Most still wouldn't go away. You'd need to genetically test the entire population to remove masked recessive alleles. Benefit < cost
FabulousOtters
True. Damn you, logistics!
ImgurCelebrity
according to what theory would they go away? genetic afflictions exist in numerous animal species.
ElbowDeepinaTinyOctopus
the argument would probably be that human society has a unique level of stigma towards genetic afflictions, but I don't think it follows.
GoCorral
https://thesocietypages.org/families/2014/11/24/marriage-rates-among-people-with-disabilities-save-the-data-edition/
willowinthestars
By having modern medicine. More people with genetic dosorders live to reproductive age now where in the past they didnt. 2/2
willowinthestars
Theoretically natural selection should weed out genetic dosorders but we are artifically prolongong the diseases "life" 1/2
ImgurCelebrity
I reiterate my counterargument to this: genetic afflictions exist in numerous animal species. They don't have "modern medicine".
FabulousOtters
No I'm saying that over a massive period of time they would be selected against. The idea behind eugenics is that we can't wait that long.
ImgurCelebrity
Agreed, and they are selected against. The presence of medicine in our society is one component of the environment of that selection.
UnintentionalMasculineMicroaggressions
I am not trying to be a dick here, for me this line of thinking always fails when you think about its implementation.
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
w4nder3r
Especially if people have children before they are aware of their disorders. Or if their genetic disorder is on a spectrum.
ethanicus
Basically giving the government the ability to decide what people get to reproduce, despite what defenitions you give. Sound familiar?
Assklowne
You have to mark those disabled somehow, maybe make them where a yellow star or tattoo a number on their arm so we know not to reproduce wit
Assklowne
Them
RickHalcyon
Reminds me of the videos asking pro-lifers, "If abortion is made illegal, what should be the consequences for women who still get them?"
AndyBiz10
@op saying its up to debate is dangerous, we can't even agree on women's rights, let alone who can and cannot reproduce.
FabulousOtters
Hit the nail on the head. The problem is always with distinction and enforcement.
BeadyEyed123
The slippery slope is also when someone in charge decides to broaden the definition of genetic disabilities. As well-meaning as you may be.
CorgiCircus
Well we're on the verge of eliminating genetic disorders with CRISPR anyway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY
KeeleonOhms
You could start by having parents with existing conditions sign away the right to public money if their child has that condition.
GiantMidgetMan
Nah. You aren't being a dick. I'm just presenting the premise. Where the line is, is up for debate.
Insideanus
+1 for rational, respectful debate on imgur!
gamblingpoet
What do you see as a major genetic disability?
Hammerhead777
Ok so you care enough about it to make a post, but you aren't capable of defending your own eugenics bullshit.
spagattanadle
It's a slippery slope.
whitter86
so if you choose to have a child under those circumstances healthcare will be denied bc you are willingly having an unhealthy child 2/2
whitter86
I think maybe it should be more like, genetics testing, then ok you have x diesease your children will inherit this /1
whitter86
Problem is getting everyone on the same page with it, just like abortion.
DoubleFuckStick
Some people consider disabilities like autism a gift. They may see the world in a different way, arguably with diverse/unique ideas.
SneakEFoxxe
Nah. The world would be a much better place if 99
SneakEFoxxe
% of the population had blonde hair and had IQs of exactly 90.
TheWayADrillWorks
Hi
thomasgilbody
How would this apply to people who show no symptoms but carry recessive jeans and could potentially have children that are affected?
thomasgilbody
Just not allowed to reproduce with other carriers?
thomasgilbody
Would it be less ethical test every fetus and abort all the affected? Expensive but allows people to keep trying, perhaps if self funded?
manthabat
1) It doesn't matter where you draw the line. What matters is implementation. The only way to implement it would be to force people to be
manthabat
2) neutered or to get abortions. Or...to just straight up kill people because it's cheaper than neutering/abortions. Either way, enforcing
manthabat
3) any kind of eugenics is unethical due to the huge violation of rights involved in ensuring the results.
nasreal
1 This is the biggest problem with your argument. If we're going to disallow certain people from breeding, that would have to be handled...
nasreal
2 by the govt. Here in the US, I would NEVER be willing to surrender that sort of power to the govt. They get to start deciding who can...
nasreal
3 conceive and who can't, and that's it for any illusion of freedom still existing. The other problem is what counts as serious enough...
cleverbeans
It's not really a debate. We decided a long time ago the right to bodily autonomy outweighed social desire to sterilize people.
BozoThePie
How about encouraging it financially, but not making it mandatory? We have social support for disabled people, maybe instead we should (...)
BozoThePie
(...) give the money to anybody who is willing to give up reproduction for the betterment of the gene pool.
hemmi
Then people came to remove the ability to receive an abortion... So rules on autonomy and bodily choices are made, FWIW
Oscill8s
And a lot of us fight those rules tooth and nail.
Omegilla
"Hey man I'm just saying we should have a debate on forced eugenics, not that I'm going to actually defend my suggestion."
HumansArePrettyNeat
I've got a fairly uncommon genetic condition which makes life a bit more difficult but I otherwise work, pay taxes etc.
kimipw
Same. I have thalassemia and Crohn's. Sure they're annoying, but typically not life-threatening and aren't 100% passed down. It's a lottery.
HumansArePrettyNeat
It's actually spectacularly insulting that you'd suggest you should have some sort of say in my decision to have kids.
BathroomHumor
This is a very emotional topic for most people, but I think OP was referring to severe conditions, not milder conditions that can still work
vidmagnuson
Username exceptionally relevant. +1 for your clear and reasonable point as well.
PoppinLochNessHopster
No enforcement mechanism at all. Allow it as a choice and give a tax reward incentive.
TheAfroClam
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE BABIES WITHOUT A VOICE?! ::cue Sarah McLachlan's In the Arms of an Angel::
boneappleteet
This seems reasonable
FrauBlucher
I laughed at your username. Nice one
boneappleteet
Thank you. This is the first compliment I've got
Zombraina
Eh, people would argue that just means you're sterilizing the poor, not the genetically unfit, since they need it more than well-off people.
MithridateEupator
Perhaps increase the tax incentives for adopting if you have a genetic disorder
muntalunt
Great idea
koflan
Or for anybody, regardless of their health.
MithridateEupator
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there already are incentives for adopting
Zombraina
I think that is a much better idea! :)
Thatdudewhohasnoideawhatsgoingon
Just because someones poor, doesnt mean they have problematic genetics. Just means the lower class now has a genetic advantage.
cattywumpus
That was the US eugenics argument. Poverty and being Black were genetic defects.
LiamNeesonOfficial
Devil's Avocado, how poor we talking? Is the family impregnating each other for the 6th generation in a shelter? How black?
TheWayADrillWorks
I am stealing Devil's Avacado for later use
pepperronii
I'm poor as shit & in a private college. Opportunity can change fates. Birth circumstances with matter, but aren't what totally define you.
thisaccountisnotentirelyjustforsmut
Isn't being a jerk hereditary?
idoindeedhavegenitals
Nature vs nurture ;)
billismcwillis
Exactly this. It sounds good on paper, but who gets to decide what a disability is? It seems obvious at first but there are very real (1/?)
billismcwillis
differences in opinion in wide populations on what is considered a serious defect. One that pops into mind is autism. Autism definitely (2/
LogeeLassleyyy
You answered yourself, take OPINIONS out of the equation and let science find fact, and then let the facts decide where the line is drawn.
billismcwillis
What facts would these be? Whether a genetic issue would be serious enough to forbid reproduction is by definition an opinion
dhaskjdhawyajhdbsdbgwakjhbdnmcckclkklkl
Autism is a giant blanket term that covers shit from full on retard-smash-and-scream behavior, to regular-but-doesnt-get-humor.
billismcwillis
That's exactly my point. Who gets to decide what is acceptable and what's not?
TheWayADrillWorks
More than that actually, I'm in the "regular but a little odd" category. I get humor.
billismcwillis
has a genetic opponent, but I bet there are plenty of people who would argue against forbidding autistic people from having children. (3/
TheWayADrillWorks
As a guy with mild Asperger's, yes. In fact if some government tried to forbid it I would go out of my way to have kids elsewhere to spite >
billismcwillis
In my opinion, there are way too many potentially problematic issues with legislating who is allowed to reproduce. (4/4)