TheLordCommander
82132
1976
93
So I saw a post about how the Empire is corrupt and I would just like to make my counter argument.
Now I'm not saying the Empire is without fault, there is a lot of stagnation and bureaucracy in the Cyrodilic Government, but that still doesn't justify an violent, childish movement, fuelled by racism and let by a power hungry fool.
Well to get to the heart of the story, you have to go back to the beginning.
4E 168, Titus Mede II rises to the throne of a crippled empire, as Cyrodil recovers from the Oblivion crisis the Thalmor take Valenwood and Elsweyr. Black Marsh had left the empire with the events of the Oblivion Crisis and Morrowind had never truly recovered from its conflict. Titus Mede barely had time to get comfortable when the Thalmor came knocking, when the emperor refuse their ultimatum they gifted him a cart filled with the head of every Blades agent from Summerset and Valenwood.
The Great War
And so began The Great War, a massive clash between the might of The Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion. Try as they may The Empire was no match, the Dominion quickly took they southern coast line of Hammerfell as the rest of their forces attacked Cyrodil. The Empire won a number of victories, and for every defeat they made the Dominion bleed, so the Thalmor called for a treaty.
Some call Titus Mede II a coward, who surrendered to the Thalmor, a man who gave in when the Empire needed him. But when that ambassador sent that ultimatum he defied, and when he was presented the heads of countless Blades agents he prepared for war. The battles that raged for the next four years were bloody, and both sides saw countless casualties. Eventually the Aldmeri Dominion brokered peace from a position of power, allowing them to ban Talos Worship and insert themselves into imperial politics.
The Markarth Incident
During the conflict of the Great War the Reachmen took Markarth. In exchange for being able to worship Talos, Ulfric was asked to remove the invaders from the city. With Ulfric at it's head the militia took the city, staging a number of executions, and torturing the civilians for information when they went underground. The imperials knew that the Thalmor would not overlook the breach of the treaty but they let Ulfric worship his god. When the Thalmor pressed them, they imprisoned him.
The rise of a Rebel
During the war Ulfric fought along side soldiers such as Galmar Stone-fist and Legate Rikke, he was captured during the conflict and tortured. After Elenwen learned he was the son of a jarl he was fed information that he was crucial to the capture of the imperial city before 'escaping'. After the Markarth incident and his father's death during his incarceration he took the seat of jarl. Fanned the flame of hatred toward the Empire and the Thalmor, creating what came to be known as the Stormcloak Rebellion.
The Death of a King
In order to prove that the Empire was weak Ulfric challenged the high king to single combat, if he refused Ulfric point was proven, if he accepted the high king would have to fight a tested veteran with training in the Thu'um that was his senior by many years.
What I hate most isn't the rebellion itself but Ulfric, he was selfish putting his own desires above the Empire and calling the traitors when the disagreed. If he had faith in the Empire instead of trying to cut his own path in blood then the Empire could have regained strength to fight back. Searching around the Blue Palace you learn that Torygg looked up to him, he would have joined Ulfric if he had only asked. The Thalmor knew that Ulfric would cause strife, they knew that as long as the conflict continued that the empire was weakened. Sneaking into the Thalmor embassy, you'll find that the Thalmor refer to the war as "First War with the Empire". They are already planning their next attack and the only thing that the rebellion does is make it easier for them.
FP edit: Just hoping to beat that Stormcloak supporter on FP, remember attack the argument not the person arguing.
NitherNor
Sky's rim belongs to the nords!
macca3568
>played high elf >heavy armour and Warhammer >join stormcloaks >murder thalmor >kek
gnomedeplume
Fus the Stormcloaks, Ro the Imperials and Dah the Thalmor
supraman2turbo
Thalmor lies all of it. Skyrim belongs to the Nords
akortsdrums
SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!
gavgavo
I side with the imperials because their emblem is on the cover of the game and it looks cool
TheLordCommander
TheWholeRealFigg
Ulfric definitely could have used a different approach to instead rally Skyrim to help the empire recover, and tell the Thalmor to f off.
lafemmenikita
There is EVIDENCE that the Thalmor, a foreign agency, tried to interfere in Skyrims affairs and they consider Ulfric Stormcloak an asset!
supraman2turbo
Every game I beat up those silly Roman Empire wannabes
CatSnakePlissken
Skyrim is for the Nords.
GadenKerensky
Titus Mede is hardly a weak man... just tired, so very tired. He faced death Honourably. That is, if you side with the Brotherhood. I didn't
MediaMuerte
Side with? Doesn't it just mean you didn't do the quest? It is canon for the DB to kill the emperor, right?
GadenKerensky
Not if you kill the Dark Brotherhood.
alkante
Stormcloaks are here so the elves can weaken the empire even more on the good side there will be at least 1 country free from elves
SubtleOrc
TBH I'm the boss vampire in all of Skyrim with my own freaking castle. I'm the head of the DB and TG. What soldiers do to amuse themselves..
SubtleOrc
Doesn't really rate a mention. Theyre all cattle or contracts.
StamBroker
Honestly, one of the coolest things (to me) about the Elder Scrolls games is that they don't shy away from a complex narrative.
StamBroker
Hell, in Morrowind, Dagoth Ur was even a complex guy, and not clearly "more evil" than the Tribunal. Just kinda gone off the deep end.
StamBroker
There is usually some larger "evil", but the different in-game factions almost always have their own arguments and beliefs.
TheLordCommander
iAintNoSynthDammit
i dont think the stormcloaks or the empire are the good guys, but i do think the dominion are the bad guys
PotassiumRegulatoryCommittee
The Thalmor are egotistical scum, and my vast, burning hatred for them forces me to side against anyone that submits to them.
TheLordCommander
But if Skyrim united with the Empire and strengthened them, they could kill Thalmor more efficiently.
TheWholeRealFigg
Because fuck the Thalmor... Assholes
GodEmperorOfImgur
Ulfric was a man of honor, the... Nord version of honor, which involves a lot more bloodshed than our notion of honor. The fact that he 1/2
GodEmperorOfImgur
was told, by law what he could and could not worship was a personal insult to the VERY individualistic Nords, and as such deserves to 1½/2
GodEmperorOfImgur
be challenged, to not do so, is cowardly. He followed his path (whether it lead to him as highking or dead, is up to the player.) 2/2
TheLordCommander
His cause may have been true but he wasn't, he took the violent option when he could have done thing peacefully. He only weakened Skyrim.
GodEmperorOfImgur
Again, the honorable option by his culture and time.
TheLordCommander
There is no honor in killing Torygg, especially when he was ready and willing to join his cause.
JonSnowAKAAegonTargaryen
I just thought that the main point of the rebels was that they wanted to worship Talos, who founded the Empire and all that.
TheLordCommander
Yeah but given time, the Empire could have thrown of the yoke place on them by the Dominion and brought back Talos Worship.
JonSnowAKAAegonTargaryen
Meh, when you hear some of them talk about the battles in Skyrim, sounds like the Empire was surrendering to their use of magic.
TheLordCommander
The Thalmor had been planning the war for years in secret and the Empire was still crippled by the Oblivion Crisis. 1/2
TheLordCommander
Titus Mede's advisors told him to sign the original contract because the never stood a chance but he would rather fight than just give up 2/
TheLordCommander
the rights of his citizens. He only signed the Concordat because it meant the safety of the Empire, he was going to attack as soon he could.
ElbowDeepInASnake
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! Motherfucking Storm cloak scum can't see that they're being fools
TheLordCommander
Remember you argue an idea, never insult the person.
Anonsy
Skyrim belongs to the Nords, imperial dog.
Thevelorebluemarble
My Sword arm is getting flabby, been a while since l've killed a storm cloak.
TheLordCommander
Where do you think the Enpire come from?
vauhtihirmu
Typical Nordist supremecist, doesn't even know the history of his own land.
Whoamioooooo
Ulfric is a prick but the stormcloacks are at least willing to fight against the thalmor which is inevitable as they seek to end the empire.
ReedleBeetle
Spoiler alert for the dark brotherhood quests ahead. Replying here so it is seen before said spoiler.
youmoron
You must be that person who tries to kill everyone on the other team by yourself right?
Whoamioooooo
I don't try I succeed.
[deleted]
[deleted]
DoorbyTheHouseShelf
Oh boy political debate about a fictional universe?
?noredirect
TheLordCommander
Even when you're about to kill Titus Mede he's not afraid. He only ever cared about the safety of the empire, including skyrim.
TheLordCommander
The Empire was on the verge of destruction, if they hadn't signed the treaty then the Thalmor would have taken all of Tamriel.
TheLordCommander
They weren't planning on just lying down, they need time to regroup and make battle plan.
IncognitoPanda
Strategy, look it up
ludwigsholyblade
You'd rather them and their families be slaughtered over pride rather than wait to regain strength for the inevitable next war?
TheLordCommander
The white-gold concordat wasn't signed merely out of self preservation, they wanted to use the time to regain strength for the next war.
somedudedude
It doesnt matter if you side with the Stormcloaks or Empire, The lore will circumvent the civil war in the next game anyways (1/2)
somedudedude
(2/2) Personally i side with the Stormcloaks, Because i refuse to bow to the thalmor or any law they pass.
Tassyr
Honestly, what pissed me off about Skyrim is- why did we play AFTER Tamriel's version of a world war instead of IN it?
AccountCreatedToUpdogVotes
Because, even if you side with the Stormcloaks, there's a chance the empire could reunify. As such, future games could have the same intact
AccountCreatedToUpdogVotes
history, regardless of individual playthroughs.
Dares
Because the engine sucks for mass battles. Even the 'civil war' felt like dealing with a few bandits, not an actual... war.
TheLordCommander
I'm inclined to disagree, whilst a big war would bave been fun the civil war has more depth. There aren't bad guys just opposite ideology.
Tassyr
and the only thing resolving it did was change a few NPCs in charge of about half the cities. 2/2
DoorbyTheHouseShelf
And throw them all in the pit of the Blue Palace! Imperial dogs.
Tassyr
"More Depth?" It was a barely fleshed out sideline. The closest you got to any major battle or any major effect was about 12 on 12, 1/2
TheLordCommander
Well that was more likely due to geaphical limitations but there is depth if you look. TES games have always have depth if you just look.
Tassyr
Eh. We were given the depth of a kiddie pool, when we were hoping for a swimming pool. There was -so- much more they could've done.
GetOnTheFloorEveryoneWalkTheDinosaur
i felt the same during my first 2 play through's until i stopped to smell the roses and immersed myself in the game, however i agree the
notkvothethebloodless
Doesn't tulius rant at Ulfric about how they were going to unite to fight the AD, but Ulfric was just like nuh uh your dumb, Nords r to cool
TheLordCommander
Yeah, Ulfric may have started out alright but he got blinded by his own ego and political goals.
GadenKerensky
Torygg didn't even seem that bad; he reaches Sovngarde, and when there, dialogue suggests he knew he'd die to Ulfric, but did so as a Nord.
GodEmperorOfImgur
Torygg was honorable, so was Ulfric, he too goes to Sovngarde if/when he dies.
GadenKerensky
I notice that, but Ulfric was also misguided; he was doing exactly what the Thalmor wanted.
TheLordCommander
Yeah, reading the Thalmor dossier you learn that the Thalmor basically predicted this would happen after his release.
IncognitoPanda
Plus Ulfric attacks my lovely Whiterun and disposes the Jarl there, who only wants the best for his people, and helps fight the dragons
valkrez
You don't think Balgruff is kind of a wuss? He talks game but then bows and shuffles around the empire
Dares
He literally allows a dragon to attack his home and helps you capture it personally. He's far from it.
notkvothethebloodless
There's also some heavy implication he was in it more for money, but it's honestly a bit shaky.
TheLordCommander
When the steward mentions the 'chest of gold'? I'm pretty sure that desicion was made without his input?
valkrez
But the chest of gold didn't hurt
IncognitoPanda
I think he sees there is no reason to cause a fight if it is not needed, and he sees the merit. Plus Alduin was the bigger picture
valkrez
No I mean literally in his dialogue he whimpers around the legion if you let them protect the city
TheLordCommander
I think it was more reluctance than acquiescence.
xultrakillx
i hate that motherfucker. the scene where you have a peace thingy in high hrothgar made me hate ulfric so much. what a prick.
SubtleOrc
The best thing to do at the peace conference is transform into vampire lord form. Shit goes down in comical fashion .
TheLordCommander
Ever since I figured out I could, I have always fought the civil war and lopped his head off.
notkvothethebloodless
Right? Like nevermind that extinct race of dragons came back to life, let's argue over who gets what sawmill. And how big Nordic dicks are.
GadenKerensky
Besides, I'm Biased for Tullius because of Fallout: New Vegas and Battlestar Galactica.
dustycbc
Mass effect 2&3
GadenKerensky
Was he a badass in them?
DancingGayRay
First game was Stormcloak. This is why I'm an imperial every time since.
Selerox
The Empire is the lesser of two evils.
AccountCreatedToUpdogVotes
I'm the same. I was pissed at that bitch who wants to behead me just to "save time," with no evidence I was a criminal. I still kill her
AccountCreatedToUpdogVotes
first every game.
VAiSiA
so you basically fucking murderer and fucking complain about injustice. too bad there is no imperial justice in skyrim.
TheLordCommander
It's always important to see things from all perspectives, that way you don't get blinded by your own ideologies.
diphenhydraminehcl50mg
Well, honestly, it's not important at all ;)
diphenhydraminehcl50mg
Man... I mean it's a video game so it's not important... geez. sensitive neck beards ;)
SubtleOrc
This
CandidGamera
I couldn't play a Stormcloak run beyond the point where it's clear that you can't sway Balgruuf and have to betray him to gain Whiterun.
VIAI
Not betrayal. That's war. The dude finally opposed Ulfric and he showed up at his gates with an army. It's wasn't like you back stabbed him
VIAI
Not betrayal. That's war. The dude finally opposed Ulfric and he showed up at his gates with an army. It's wasn't like you back stabbed him
VIAI
Not betrayal. That's war. The dude finally opposed Ulfric and he showed up at his gates with an army. It's wasn't like you back stabbed him
VIAI
Not betrayal. That's war. The dude finally opposed Ulfric and he showed up at his gates with an army. It's wasn't like you back stabbed him
VIAI
Not betrayal. That's war. The dude finally opposed Ulfric and he showed up at his gates with an army. It's wasn't like you back stabbed him
Thorbane
Dude. Take it easy on the post button.
VIAI
It bugged out. Fuck whoever downvoted each one.
VIAI
Not betrayal. That's war. The dude finally opposed Ulfric and he showed up at his gates with an army. It's wasn't like you back stabbed him
ShoroT
ave, true to Caesar, wait...
DoorbyTheHouseShelf
http://www.picgifs.com/games-gifs/games-gifs/fallout-new-vegas/picgifs-fallout-new-vegas-945990.gif
TheLordCommander
Et tu Brutus?
fosterthefoals
*Brute, it's in the vocative you philistine
TheLordCommander
ShoroT
Et Tumor, Brute?
MediaMuerte
That quest was poorly placed. The wasteland already hates you by this point, so why bother killing him?
ShoroT
So they would know about the effort you went thru just to kill him in his most vulnerable moment
MediaMuerte
I've killed him strategically, but not on purpose. Does everyone forgive you?
RenIsTired
Mostly my beef with the imperials when playing Skyrim is they tried to behead me. As first impressions go... not a great one.
vauhtihirmu
For me it was "Meh, the Empire is always at least imprisoning me in the beginning of an ES game. We have a spat, we make amends."
valkrez
It's hard to get over that
[deleted]
[deleted]
vauhtihirmu
Yup. The question of your fate that was presented to her means execution was not regular policy, and every other imperial probably didn't(1)
vauhtihirmu
know who was and was not supposed to be on that list: They trusted their comrades or their subordinates were doing their job. (2/2)
RenIsTired
#notallimperials?
EvilKam
I'm upvoting you to make up for your downvotes on attempted OC.
TheLordCommander
I mean if you got caught trying to cross the Syrian border by a group of people trying to kill the head of ISIS or something, well...
MagicSquid
That doesn't mean that they should summarily execute someone though! WTF?!
RenIsTired
I still wouldn't be fond of the folks that captured me.
TheLordCommander
Yeah, that the Empire is not short on faults but when yoh span half a continent sometimes you make hard choices.
AccountCreatedToUpdogVotes
This is why I always kill the bitch, then join the imperials.
Wuhaa
Say I am Ulfric. Why would I want my region to remain inside the empire when it has banned my religion? I would be furious.
IAmDrBanner
Because the alternative is to be enslaved and/or murdered by a force several times more powerful and organized than your own. That is worse.
Wuhaa
It does not matter that the Empire was forced to do it, they are still to blame. I'd rather emerge as my own state and keep my fate.
YarnDash
Because you aren't shortsighted and you see the strength a unified empire can amass to fight the Thalmor later, thus protecting your... 1/2
YarnDash
...home and beliefs for a much longer period of time. 2/2
Wuhaa
Never has there been a better time to gain independence. You think the empire will just hand it over once the Thalmor are gone?
YarnDash
I think the Thalmor are looking to divide and conquer. Do you think an independent Skyrim stands a better chance than Hammerfell? Elsweyr?
TheLordCommander
Hammerfell barely won, the empire was backed into a corner despite being bigger than the Dominion. What hope does Skyrim have?
Wuhaa
So they should submit to the lesser of two tyrants? Nah mate, Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
TheLordCommander
It's not like the Empire is planning to enslave all humankind for the Nords forever for the elves. If Skyrim helps the Empire they can fight
Thorbane
A Skyrim that's just been wrecked by a civil war, no less.
Osarphi
Well, the dragonborn. At least, my dragonborn could be this hope.
IAmDrBanner
The dragonborn can be surrounded by a 100 dudes and die. He isn't an immortal invincible warrior. Just a guy who can learn the shouts.
IAmDrBanner
Even actual dragons can be outnumbered.
SubtleOrc
This is why I don't side with either faction, but I never leave a Thalmor outside of a city, alive.
VIAI
Literally stated in the Thalmor Embassy that that's exactly want they want, rather side winning would be bad for them (cuz Skyrim = United)
VIAI
Literally stated in the Thalmor Embassy that that's exactly want they want, rather side winning would be bad for them (cuz Skyrim = United)
turpasauna
Best option is to have the peace council on high hrothgar, for both factions sake.
VIAI
That option only lasts until Alduin is defeated
Kaplsauce
Fun fact, you can kill them in front of city guards and the Jarl in a keep and the game doesn't count it as murder.
vinny8boberano
Death to the THALMOR!!!
kibateo
I'm a crazy uber murderer outside of every city lol
SubtleOrc
I only kill contracts and bad guys :)
kibateo
I loved the dark brotherhood quest line, felt so cool. The vampires and the wedding murder were my personal favourites
SubtleOrc
Raiding the "ship" was fun too.
SubtleOrc
Yes the wedding murder was lots of fun, even though I did the vanilla stealth archery snipe. I didn't even get a bounty on that one.
KingOfTheInterwebz
It's too bad you miss out on a lot of quests and story if you stay neutral. Would be cool if they had a third questline for neutral players.
AccountCreatedToUpdogVotes
Or if "high king of Skyrim" made its way into the actual game.
farfie
Smoke enough weed....
blackguard89
Unfortunately....
TheLordCommander
Yeah, the real enemy is the Thalmor no matter what side you're on.
SlytherinLover
GLORY TO THE DOMINION
DoorbyTheHouseShelf
@OP do you have a link to the other post about the stormcloaks?
[deleted]
[deleted]
DoorbyTheHouseShelf
Thank you!
GadenKerensky
Hell, even the Adlmeri Dominion is really just an army for the Thalmor; they're the real political heads of state.
TheLordCommander
I think it's more like the Thalmor are a politicap party of the Aldmeri Dominion. Like the Nazi party for Germany.
Baconthief1994
Historically their foreign policy is isolationism. If it weren't for the Thalmor they'd likely gain their independence after the oblivion
Baconthief1994
crisis and then keep to themselves
GadenKerensky
Mmm. What's worse, there's implications in the Lore that should they dominate Tamriel, they'll end up destroying Nirn.
TrijezniMujo
but y can't you take the fight to the thalmor instead?
TheLordCommander
Maybe in the next game.
TheUnknownNoob
Because that would have been much cooler than a civil war.
HellsBelly
This. So much this. I would love to take the charge of the Empire leader, unite with stormcloaks and march to kill every last one em
TrijezniMujo
Is there a mod for it ?
swubbydubs
There's one for xbox, it rebuilds helgen and lets you work your way up to leader of helgen. In it's description it says you can become 1?
HellsBelly
I dont think so... But would be really nice