Establishment
10874
477
22
May 28, 2024 7:39 PM
Establishment
10874
477
22
Bowtie8bit
As if their voice matters? Isn't it clear that nobody can stop the people in power?
ThisIsMyUsernameThereAreManyLikeIt
I oppose the killing of those children. But I also oppose the killing of the adults around them.
madvin
Biden and all GOP lawmakers should be indicted by the ICC and ICJ!
ItsACrazyWorld
wow.. so brave of them...
barfopedia
Not America's first time either.
cjandstuff
While I absolutely think Bibi needs to go, every time I see one of these news stories, "Israel bombed a refugee camp" or some variant, a day or two later there's a new news story where it turns out the camp had Hamas leaders or a cache of weapons hiding among the refugees. How do we fix this?
xurs
Remember the American soldier who burned himself to death because he didn't want to take part in genocide?
I think about him every day and I'm not even American.
biblioteker
Hamas launched a rocket from a refugee camp that just happened to be full of Hamas ammunition. Israel retaliated for the rocket attack and the Hamas ammunition all blew up. Maybe Hamas doesn't care about its own people.
DerpMeister
It was eight rockets, not one: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kkqkngnedo
Lulabel73
This is a very well worded neutral stance, he’s taking the side of ceasefire not the side of either party involved.
CleverGroom
But that's why both Israel and Hamas are so happy to keep volleying facetious ceasefire deals back and forth: As long as this is framed as a bilateral problem with nothing but a bilateral solution, they can each posture as the reasonable one while rejecting the other side's patently unacceptable terms out of hand.
Israel has to stop the genocide. They do it unilaterally or it doesn't get done. Hamas is never going to do it because, um, they're fucking terrorists and frankly, they're winning...
CleverGroom
...Pressure should be squarely on Israel to stop doing because That's Not How We Do Things Around Here and Never Again and if you keep acting like a rogue state we're going to start treating you like one. We can't bring any of that same pressure to bear on Hamas because it's already been in place for decades.
Neutral framing is unproductive. Hamas doesn't give a shit. Israel has a lot more left to lose, and that's where the pressure needs to be applied. Neutrality only helps Bibi keep killing.
Frogblender
He's spent a long time trying to prove he deserves a knighthood. Can't afford to say anything too controversial.
meadowmeal
is it better than nothing? probably :)
LordLobster
He didn't say that, he retweeted a quote from the UNICEF director. UN organizations tend to be very neutral in how they state things.
BBRed
Yep, release the hostages. Still have over a hundred. If Hamas cared for its people…
ElbowDeepInYou
So your neighbor takes hostages, nice guy normally, you had him over for dinner. So the police barge into your house and shoot your kids in the face. "YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIM TO RETURN THE HOSTAGES.
You're the lowest of the low.
DerpMeister
Do they have visiting hours where you live?
TresusIbor
Remember: In 2024 the United States assisted in the Palestinian genocide. NEVER let them hide that.
circlebreaker
Maybe also look into the Gulf of Tonkin incident, it gets much worse the more that you look.
Bondsmith10
I'm so proud that my country is super reluctant to fund the defense of a nation from an invader, but is fully happy to fund an actual genocide with no qualms. Proud to be an American, right?
BayazTheBenevolent
It has decidedly not just been "in 2024". The genocide would never have happened if not for decades of US support for Israeli atrocities.
OnlyBees
He is right, however.. politics from soccer-man. Now, onwards to get my medical opinions from Shaq.
FlatPlutoSociety
So many politicians and military leaders in Israel and the US should be in jail or worse.
DerpMeister
Pretty telling that you exclude Hamas' leaders from the list of people that should go to jail.
GTimgur
Not so sure about the military leaders thing. Of course there have to be bad apples, but people forget the US military does not decide policy, where it goes, or why. That is entirely up to elected officials. Which means it's up to us.
GTimgur
I don't say this to excuse terrible leaders or the corrupt systems that have put many in place. But I think it's too easy to forget how the military works and how much we could affect government if we tried.
Raikupath
Soldiers were able to choose if they want to massacre civilians in Vietnam and they decided to rape and massacre them.
Asadsadsadclown
Oh boy you really don’t get the difference between “maintaining an alliance” and “full support” the US is not and has not been supporting Israel. The US has been maintaining existing alliance commitments while trying to talk them down, build international support for Palestine, and provide aide to Palestine, every step of the way. We haven’t cut off all military aide to Israel because of a combination of existing agreements, republican interference, and geopolitical stability.
Asadsadsadclown
This is an ally and a sovereign nation going off the deep end. Unless we want to use force we can’t actually force them to do anything. The existing status quo of using them to extend the US sphere of influence into the Middle East also depends on them. We have tried what limited diplomatic means we have to resolve the issue short of sanctions or full military cut off and that would mean an end of the alliance and the status quo. There is an ocean between “full support” and what we are doing.
DerpMeister
There's also an ocean between "reacting to a terror attack, that killed over 1200 people in one day, by fighting a war in a densely populated area against an enemy that actively hides its fighters and military assets amongst civilians" and committing genocide.
Asadsadsadclown
That would be the “going off the deep end” part. Israel is committing active genocide, of a people they have been slowly genociding for 50 years. To say the US is currently supporting that genocide is ignorant at best.
poopMagnet
There’s also an ocean between what we are doing and everything we could and have been doing. Biden’s ‘hug BeBe’ strategy was a mistake and has been a failure that has tied us to everything Israel has done.
fastjeff
GCRust
There are only two ways the bloodshed stops. Either Netenyahu's government slaughters every Palestinian they can get their hands on, or Netenyahu and his entire Cabinet is arrested.
SquirtVonnegut
You forgot the easiest way, America stops providing Israel weapons. Liberals seem to be in denial about the most obvious solution.
GCRust
Israel hasn't spent millions of dollars in lobbyist funding over the decades for that to be a viable solution, sadly. They're getting what they paid for.
TheobromineAddict
I keep hearing that we can't stop sending ammunition because we have a contract to supply ammo regardless of how it's used. The bureaucracy of the contract is more important than the lives of the children.
SquirtVonnegut
That argument is untrue. It's actually the other way around. The Leahy Law prohibits the US from providing weapons to foreign forces that violate human rights. It's actually against our own laws to provide Israel with weapons.
CleverGroom
I think Biden's genuinely unwilling to end the alliance, come what may. If it's genocide of the Palestinians or casting off Israel, he chooses Israel, so there's not much leverage he's willing to use.
I wonder if it was different for Reagan when he told Menachem Begin to pull out of Beirut or else. Maybe he was bluffing; that was a whole thing for him, the madman nuclear brinkmanship and all. Either way, Begin did as he was told.
SirSmurfalot
Or, you know the Palestinians can give up those hostages they took and surrender.
GCRust
I wasn't aware Palestinians as a whole had seized hostages. I was only aware internationally recognized terrorist organization Hamas had done that.
Kbantar
Anyone who targets innocent civilians, including children, is evil no fucking exceptions.
SirSmurfalot
And yet people like you downvote the only reasonable option that will lead to peace... they need to give back the hostages. You know, the ones they took while targeting innocent civilians, including children, while they were being evil on October 7th.
Keru
You got downvoted for trying to claim every single Palestinian belong to Hamas, dickshit. Fuck off.
SirSmurfalot
There is significantly less of a gap there than you might imagine, even as Hamas deliberately sacrifices them to score PR points.
BobAllen2004
Remember, the sentiment should be "thank you for joining those speaking out" not "what took you so long?"
BBRed
Thabks for the brainwash sesh
CoarseAndSalty
The thousands of dead are saying it much louder than I ever could.
HandoB4Javert
How Israel has been in the past, well before last October...
I think this report may be the one referenced. Chilling read. On page 143 it starts detailing the deaths of individual children, and what they could gather happened leading up to their deaths. https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/A.HRC_.40.CPR_.2.pdf 2019
HandoB4Javert
Some of those had already been made even more homeless orphans near Rafah before the ICJ ruling. This is who Israel target.
notacobra
The one thing that gets me about this is how much it facilitates fence sitting on issues while waiting to see where the court of public opinion lands.
Inaction as people die to covid, or Russia bombs, or Israeli genocide... Until you're sure that you won't look bad for saying we should do something.
Sure, I'd obviously rather they did do something in the end, but condemning something terrible months after public support and vocal celebrity influence was needed... Shouldn't be equally praised.
waeraj
andrewgrr1
Nah, both. Good job eventually making it to the right side of history, what took you so long dipshit?
PJVeddersGirl
Yes!! This. Recently, I read a post about Eurovision and someone mentioned the presenter had been using they/them and was pleased to hear it. Another person said "this was the minimum expected". While this might be true, you can't be negative about someone doing something you want them to do.
meadowmeal
Reward desirable behaviour. Dog trainers know.
Forensickle
No, they aren't 2 sentiments, they are 1, with a comma in between
lDanielHolm
Not if you're interested in convincing people to your point of view, rather than criticize them for not having the right one.
Forensickle
Finally understanding doesn't negate accountability for previous actions, these aren't 5 year olds, and an accurate answer as to why, can indicate how to talk to those still to be convinced
andrewgrr1
No tough conversations! The people who were actively and aggressively wrong might get upset.