neuzgi
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Antti Aarnio-Vihuri, 77, didn´t hit or harm anyone, but he happens to be a billionaire and in Finland fines are adjusted based on your income. There was another car stopped before the crosswalk on line next to him when he failed to stop his own car by it to check for any approaching pedestrians.
Citizen with average income would have walked (or driven) away with about 400 € fines. So, if you are a billionaire coming to Finland, we strongly recommend hiring a poor driver.
Source: http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/art-2000005138418.html
ProfessorDumbass
It is only 80K... who cares?
maksamakkara
Vois kai torille mennä ku aurinkokin paistaa
Hioni
Seems legit to me
OMEUNOMEEMINISAR
In my country,if a common person misses something when doing his taxes, he goes to jail. If a banker walks away with 1 mil,he gets a warning
mellowdrama
Wow.
johnsza
He seems to have Lipton Iced tea packets on the table, I see he is a man of culture as well.
Ostreich
I think this is really cool. Not only is he not getting away with it because he's rich, he actually got fined more. This is how its done.
Stoicnihilist
Torille!
CLav
They dish out heft speeding fines too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1759791.stm .... I think it's fair.
teuro
Oh poor thing.
jprofitt2310
Much better sysrem. We should do that in usa. But trump won't stand for it.
Buthisisnotevenmyaccount
NewmarketMTB
When I get back I'm going to put my mouth where this money is...
BostonSmitty
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples’ money." - Thatcher
captainfantasticfasterthansupermantheflashandthehulkcombined
But it's based on a percentage of your income, you're bitching about like the fairest method of taxation there is.
Cataleast
I don't think OP's complaining, just mentioning that it's a significant amount of money as a fine. Also showcasing the great system in place
Skittleballs
I do feel sorry for him if it was unintentional, but it does make a lot of sense, actually.
tumppu
If it was unintentional, it means he was not paying attention while driving, which is just as bad, tbh.
DonkeyBrain
And?
NotAmused1001
Good.
highoverlordxenu
I feel bad for him. Oh wait, no I don't.
FarmerFrance
Christ... 400€ for pulling a little too far into the intersection is still crazy. That's a mistake that could be corrected by 50€
Cataleast
It's not just pulling too far, but blowing past a stopped vehicle. You won't see the kid walking in front of you from behind the other car.
MuhammedLee
2 cars going the same direction each on their own lane. First car stops to let a pedestrian cross the street. Other car doesn't. 400 is fair
mikeyunderscored
He didn't pull too far. He completely ignored stopping at all.
Mithi
Read again.
KillingTlme
Seems fair to make the punishment matter to the punished.
LeadByBadExample
It's like this for drunk drivers in both Sweden and Denmark as well. You are fined based on income.
KillingTlme
In America it is over $10k, even if you only make 12k a year.
hornsofthebull
He can likely afford 80k more than most can afford 400.
TuityFrooty
That is the idea (;
kosmonaught
Man for 400 euros in America is kinda close to a wreckless endangerment fine...
rautaSydan
Ignoring a stopped car at a pedestrian crossing is reckless endangerment, basically a deathtrap for the pedestrian if both don't stop.
Cataleast
At this point, I refuse to cross the street if there's someone coming up on the other lane behind a car that's letting me cross. Zero trust.
rautaSydan
Yeah, though children for example lack this intuition.
Cataleast
There's been quite a bit of talk on the topic recently, so I'm hoping parents will teach kids to be extra careful in intersections like that
steeelyj
I'm unemployed.. I would have a blast driving there! Damn!
StSycho
Except there's a minimum fine. Which is about 150€ if I'm dont remember completely wrong
RepostFromLastWeek
No, the minimum is 6 eur per 'day fine' which would in this case mean a 72 euro fine.
StSycho
okie dokie... It was speeding which had minimum fine. Still 6€/day, but minimum of 200€ (100€ for mopeds)
StSycho
source https://www.poliisi.fi/turvallisuus_ja_valvonta/sakkolaskuri
RepostFromLastWeek
Et puhunut ylinopeudesta mitään, vaan sakoista yleisesti, niin oletin.
StSycho
Juu, en... Muistin vain, että jossain oli minimisakot ja menin sillä oletuksella että se on kaikissa liikennerikkeissä
UndulatingTerrain
People, especially children get ran-over and killed that way every year. He deserves that fine and he will have no trouble paying for it.
Cataleast
There's a 4-lane crosswalk in front of my apartment. At this point I'm pretty much expecting every driver to just blow past stopped cars.
Cornios
I'm supposed to feel sorry for a 77 year old billionaire that's sitting in a private jet because he lost a tiny fraction of his fortune?
DespiseEveryone
Yes, same logic Trump voters in trailers are happy billionaires get tax cuts.
LeadByBadExample
I don't think the post asks anyone to feel sorry.
Cornios
You're quite right, it doesn't. My bad
Venomthemad
dam. i could live like 80 months of 80k.
CPatricoo
You mean someone else can pay for you to mostly live and the rest is chump change.
jsegs
that pays about 60% of my college loans
KimchiQueen
Shit, you're right
TheDudeOrHisDudeness
yeah and it's like 1$ for him
mimomisu
Pretty much the same in my case, and pretty comfortably (no car needed where I live)
NotQuiteDeadYetPool
So you live off $1k a month? Way to flaunt your financial prowess 1%er
TheGreyNoble
We are the 73%!!
Spoonbadger
This seems a fair system,
teuro
It's awesome
Nuggetti
That's 'cause it is.
jakkejakke22
I didn't even know we have billionaires in Finland.. Apparently there are 5.
feeltheice
That's it?
summitshow
.... congrats?
brknsoul
Australia: 27 (US Billion)
wafflestompa
We have too many- California
Mushroombadger
Richest is Antti Herlin owner of Kone. World's third largest elevator and escalator company.
MrShepard
Otis FTW
asspickle
yeah fuck those socialist elevators
KaneVel
Forbes actually just listed him to be worth as much as Trump.
jakkejakke22
Four Herlin's are billionaires. And this guy up there is the fifth. Crazy.
timberrrrrrr
Probably 4 now
Kyrremann
Just 251 in Norway
splof
According to wiki only 13
The2020ElectionWasStolen
I'm reading 222 but that's still a lot for such a small population.
Yozza11
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_the_number_of_billionaires
The2020ElectionWasStolen
Norway isn't mentioned on that list
Yozza11
Exactly
splof
Yes, it is.
FlatPlutoSociety
Really? *checks the net worth of all five members of Nigthwish*
Favri
You don't actually think Nightwish, even as a whole band, made more than a billion right...?!
FlatPlutoSociety
I'm kind of surprised that anyone even entertained the possibility that that was a serious comment.
BlackwitchWizard
I dont know man, fishmaster and steven seagull are fuckin hits.
Favri
Fair comment is fair
nilmm
There is this TED talk about the "socialists" Nordic countries being the best place to become billionaire. Let me find that...
nilmm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A9UmdY0E8hU
98BonersOnTheMoon
Tedx is 99% bullshit, sadly.
feeltheice
Well obviously that's not working out to well
SnugglyBurrick
Haha! We have 6! -Ireland
Klingon00
That and all those multinationals looking for a tax break.
iamonlyhereforyoupeople
2 in NZ. Guess that means there's room for me to make it there lol
IAmTheBadW01f
Wow, 720 billionaires?
DoItForTheScience
You funny little...
IAmTheBadW01f
....math teacher? Yup.
lurklurkingmclurk
My ancestors have 1,
IntrepidGamer
I bet you cant wait till he/she dies
lurklurkingmclurk
I'm indifferent to him, I'm Mexican American, but don't know what's going on in MX so I don't know what type of person Carlos Slim is.
frozenpie22
powerful.
skittledick
Google says Sweden has about 150(!!!), but only 20-ish of them tax and make their money in there.
Mushroombadger
One of our's Björn Wahlroos moved his books to Sweden because of our inheritance tax.
Schex44
Think how much more income Sweden would have if they taxed the other 130 billionaires at a lower rate within their tolerance level
KushauKaffku
I believe that the majority of their wealth comes from businesses outside home country with its comperatively small markets.
skittledick
Yes, taxes are high there but in the other hand there's free health care, school(even food) and in general a well working society.
Schex44
Not knocking Sweden at all. Clearly a great and functioning society. I was just looking at the opportunity cost.
skittledick
Yep but "buying back" the rich by lowering taxes may result in a more unequal society. But that's just my left sided opinion. Haha
The2020ElectionWasStolen
You just contradicted yourself.
skittledick
i just stated a fact
DEHUC
If I was a billionaire I would quit Finland in no time.
IThrowLemons
On the other hand, not breaking the law would also be an option. It's not exactly difficult.
RepostFromLastWeek
So basically you're saying you like to break the law? This isn't an issue unless you commit a fineable offense.
DEHUC
The issue is not breaking the law but the unequal application of punishment for breaking said law. You can not discriminate.
RepostFromLastWeek
Its not unequal in anyway. The fine is proportional to your income. Its the most fair way to assign fines.
DEHUC
Are other punishments propositional to income? Theft? Rape? Assault? Murder?
RepostFromLastWeek
Prison time isn't affected by income outside US.
jakkejakke22
You would leave your home and family in order to be be slightly more wealthier?
xheroth
Happens all the time.
LeadByBadExample
I would leave Denmark to live someplace warmer. Even if it meant I would be poorer.
Somanyquestions
I read it more as "If I had money I wouldn't live here."
askjeeves28
With that kind of money you could take our family and house with you.
DEHUC
My home and family would be very happy in Sweden or Switzerland, Monaco. Not the money it's the fact that all are not treated equal...
khtad
Yes, the poor, put-upon billionaires who have to pay the same proportion of their incomes as impoverished people. It's a travesty.
DuckPlanetKing
You're defending a billionare because you think one day you may become one. LOL
jakkejakke22
It's a day-fine. You pay a fine based on how much money you make in a single workday.
DEHUC
Do you have different sentencing for murder? It's like giving a good student a 4 page essay vs a bad one 1 page for punishment.
HaveAnAmazingDay
affect them to pay ~400 usd. Adjusting them makes it so that crimes are equally hurtful for all classes.
AMartianPotato
Your counter example doesn't make sense. Spending time in jail is a punishment for everyone regardless of income. But 400 euros is only a 1
jakkejakke22
You get a day-fine for violent crimes too, in a way. Days incarcerated.
HaveAnAmazingDay
The problem is that if the fines aren't adjusted per income, then a billionaire would be able to just do whatever, since it wouldn't 1/2
tutorp
Income-adjusted fines are how it should be. If not, people with enough money can basically just ignore any fineable offence.
celestiaequestria
Problem in the US is that traffic court is not setup to handle every person making above median wage suddenly fighting tickets with lawyers.
PinkDragonet
Those same people fight traffic tickets anyhow. Poor people would put up less of a fight if you didn't take their whole pay for it too.
Lobuttomize
Pretty sure he can ignore this if he truly wanted
StillNotYouTube
Eventually they'll just take away your license or put you in jail.
pronoun
Here in Thailand, about 70% of the population are poor, so fines are ridiculously cheap.
LosPer
How about mandatory community service for low level stuff?
Pikka
Then you're not going to be able to work for the duration and will still be worse off financially.
Rivian42
Pretty sure they have lawyers for any other offenses
celestiaequestria
Police in the US can charge them with criminal driving offenses to get around that. Bigger issues is stuff like Georgia Super Speed poor tax
MaurnaElegYiar
Almost got hit with that once. Shit was not fun
thejadedcynic
I think that would run afoul of the 14th amendment (at least in the US)
Jthechef
Please note we also have points for each offence, enough points and you lose your license
CorgisButtsDriveMeNuts
Yup. But you need organized and fair system for that. In Switzerland a guy paid ~70k € for speeding, also based on income/worth.
trashpanda88
Yes! Punish success! Soon we will have our utopia!!!
aguacatedeldiablo
How about punish breaking the law, such that everyone feels punished at the same rate
trashpanda88
Life is easier when you have a lot of money. Deal with it.
tutorp
Yes. That is exactly what is happening here. They're punishing success. /s
celestiaequestria
To be clear, income-adjusted IS NOT FLAT % - flat % would be regressive to poor people living paycheck-to-paycheck. Do not confuse the two!
IUpvoteBoxes
Stuff. You make 100k i make 50k. Sales tax is 5%, so proportionally since i spend 40% of my income and you soend 20% (3)
IUpvoteBoxes
I pay 2% of my income on sales tax and you spend 1%. If we both get fined .1% we both lose .1%. Not regressive. Also since this is crime (4)
IUpvoteBoxes
Or at least ordinance violation, one could simply choose to follow the law. No cost to stopping at a crosswalk. (5-end)
IUpvoteBoxes
I mention this to highlight the difference between this and food. Not eating certainly has a cost, stopping the car? Not so much.
IUpvoteBoxes
Less food/etc relative to their income. A flat % here would not be regressive here. For example: we both spend 20k (2)
IUpvoteBoxes
Regressive taxes refer to things like sales tax where a bigger portion of income is spent on sales tax because rich people purchase (1)
stopdropandrollout
How is he supposed to create jobs with this type of system?
aguacatedeldiablo
Maybe follow the law?
stopdropandrollout
Always a good place to start.
stopdropandrollout
I suppose I should start adding /s on the end of my comments.
tutorp
Probably. I got it, though, and even though you lost a couple of fake internet points, you at least made me smile.
stopdropandrollout
If I can make at least 1 person smile today, then it is a good day.
CPatricoo
Pretty sure all punishments should be equal and fair instead of turning punishments into government income.
IseeWhatyouDidThere87
The point of a fine is to deter the offense. If it doesnt hurt you'll keep doing it. This seems like a good deterrent to me.
IllTakeEight
The way I see it this is exactly equal punishment.
khtad
I agree with the first part of your comment, which is why I approve of how Finland does it.
schlummi
Punishments are intended to teach people to do better. A millionaire probably doesn't care about a 10€ fine, it doesn't teach him anything.
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welfaretaco
Why the frock should I have to pay more because I made the right decisions and worked my ass off to get somewhat wealthy? Screw that jazz.
CPatricoo
Do you trust the government to trust "what you can afford" to determine fair? Especially if it isnt based on deterrance but as income grabs
VultureTX
so how how about incarceration, the same percentage of your remaining lifespan for that felony?
tutorp
No, the same percentage of total expected lifespan.
celestiaequestria
Flat percent is NOT fair to poor people, they need a far larger % of their income just to eat. That's why % taxes (sales tax) are regressive
aguacatedeldiablo
What does equal and fair mean, though? Isn't it fair if all citizens are equally disincentivized to break safety laws? Or should we 1/?
aguacatedeldiablo
2 just eliminate fines as punishment and he can just spend a day in jail instead for his minor infraction? I'm not saying this is the only
aguacatedeldiablo
3 or even best solution, just that it's a complicated issue and perhaps you shouldn't dismiss this approach so quickly.
ThisIsNetsu
400€ is no "punishment" for a multi billionaire though. So, in a way, adjusted fines ARE fair.
CPatricoo
Why is it "for a billionare?" Are Billionares commonly just running past stop lights and speeding on purpose in most nations without this?
aguacatedeldiablo
As much as anyone else - probably more often per capita if the fine doesn't hurt proportionally
CPatricoo
Bullshit. People dont commit traffic violations based on the cost of the fine. This is fantasy.
khtad
Hey look at that, ignoring the entire spectrum to focus on the dichotomy.
CPatricoo
What if I make 90k and have a family and still struggle. Why should I pay more at all? Doesnt that hurt me just as much?
Nuanra
For a poor person that fine can ruin their whole month, a Billionare wouldn't even notice. A fine should hit his wallet hard too.
CPatricoo
If they wont notice why arent they committing more violations? Why arent the American highways plauged with rich millionares flouting cops?
YoungJables
It is fair. You pay a percentage instead if flat rate.
evilblackdog
Haha "fair"
PaperCl1p
So then why isn't a percentage tax rate fair?
kohrah
He got fined 12 day fines, so ~12 days worth of salary, based on the income tax. So it is progressive since it goes up with the income tax.
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YoungJables
I am not confusing them, I simply explained it poorly. I literally even said it's not flat.
Drougals
Do you not pay a percentage tax rate?
PaperCl1p
No, we have a progressive tax rate