Lanhdanan
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May 17, 2021 11:16 AM
Lanhdanan
105055
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236
turbogVillain
From his book, but not his actual line for fuck sakes.
IFoundOutThatYouCanHave63CharactersOntheUsernameHowCoolIsThat
The saddest part about Zionism is, they became the very thing they sought to avoid.
Giantmutantcrab
Genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid. Fuck Israel and all the fascists protecting Israel.
palfreygames
Some holy land
rpower
Gwynne Dyer tells why it is: https://cyprus-mail.com/2021/05/16/objective-allies-netanyahu-and-hamas/
Grenateh
Both sides are wrong and have always been wrong in this conflict just fyi. Palestine isn't Hamas and Hamas isn't Palestine.
PerpetuityPhoto
What? You mean my sympathies for an underdog SHOULDN'T go away when they commit war crimes? Yeah, fuck you.
seriouslywhatthefuckisthatshit
He didn't say that and it's not that simple. Broadly generalizing a people (Israe or Pales) is a convenient way to dehumanize you opinions.
meauho
https://chomsky.info/20121201/
fdoyl001
He didn't say it, but he quoted it in an article about how he agreed with it. Kind of a petty distinction.
Youhavinagiraffe
And also it's HAMAS who shot the rockets, not the elected Palestinian government (who FYI had their last election in 2006)
JustAnotherLonelyDude
Hamas won the Gaza vote in that election, then violently killed their political rival (threw them off roofs).
confanity
Last, I checked, the IDF was retaliating - whether you think too harshly or not - in Hamas-controlled areas, not Fatah. So... yeah?
Attaroo
Hamas is the elected govt,
ChukclesNuts
TLDR; Two wrongs make a right... Even though he never said that.
watgula9
cjandstuff
I wonder what would be the reaction if Native Americans started doing the same thing Palestinians are doing? Thoughts?
orangemarmaladesky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre
realargonwolf
If we're Israel in this metaphor, then we'd murder all Native Americans regardless of participation in terrorist activities and revoke-
realargonwolf
-their land rights and sell off their reservations to build houses while creating government programs to encourage people to settle there.
realargonwolf
SO basically what we already did, just again.
confanity
I mean, it's a hell of a lot more complex then that, and trying to pass off rockets fired into civilian areas as OK is super fucked up too.
JustAnotherLonelyDude
confanity
I believe it, because I've seen things like this from other sources, but dang that's a silly name for a group.
ImperatorAurelian
I've always admired Chomsky. While what he says is not the most profound or revolutionary, he still has the balls to say it.
meauho
He quoted someone else: https://chomsky.info/20121201/ but the assholes insist that's not good enough to show he agrees.
khora
He didn't say it.
madcatii
“Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand. I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me…” -Noam Chomsky
tinyCabbage
Because i'm on a 5 year mission to explore strange new worlds?
tr26
—Voltaire
firehawkcultist
Brains
madcatii
-Michael Scott
tr26
— Abraham Lincoln
angryCentrist
People don't question propaganda if it supports their view.
confanity
Are you saying that about the people who want to justify rocket attacks, or those who want to use the attacks as license for harsh reprisal?
angryCentrist
Both, check my username. Social media is now the primary source for political mis- and dis-information.
confanity
Fair enough.
JustAnotherLonelyDude
The problem with equating the sides is it lends legitimacy to Hamas, who always initiate, targeting civilian
TallMigitPorn
Here in Germany, people will frown upon you if you touch on this subject because of the history with jews. This just isn‘t right .
confanity
I mean, most of Europe can't exactly give unbiased comments; it's not like millennia of antisemitism evaporated after WWII ended.
confanity
For that matter, it's not like centuries of colonialism and racism evaporated either.
eromitlab
A just world would see Bibi Netanyahu dragged before the ICJ for what he's doing right now.
JustAnotherLonelyDude
Sorry, but IDF goes above and beyond the intl. rules of law. Is it still terrible that children die? Yes.
OverpricedCrayon
Hasn’t he already been found guilty of a bunch of illegal stuff and Israeli’s didn’t really care? Still re-elected him.
confanity
"Israelis" no more elected him than Americans elected Trump - he scraped up a controlling minority.
confanity
Except it's even more complex, because his party gets ~25% of the vote, and the rest is parliamentary coalition-building.
OverpricedCrayon
Why did you put Israeli’s in quotations?
confanity
To emphasize that the country is not a monolith and that Netanyahu's support does not reflect Israel as a whole. (No apostrophe needed, BTW)
Zixtank
Oh look. US colonial history! No, wait...
RykeJK
You're actually condoning a group that fires rockets from apartment buildings on civilians including their own ?
ItsCaptain0bvious
Free Palestine! 1/2
ItsCaptain0bvious
*with the purchase of another Paliestine of equal or higher value. Terms and conditions apply.
slinkiisu
You can't take the sky from me
arthurvanhoudt
If in 1946 they immediately had created Palestine it would have never come to this situation!
LurkerOfDarkness
Oh, it would, the only difference would be Palestine would be in the UN fully.
Svartlebee
And Jews would be a persecuted minority fully across the ME.
NomDeDieuDePutainDeBordelDeSaloperieDeMerde
Why ? Jews and Muslims have been living in harmony for centuries, if you look back 1947, jews had a much better life in muslims countries..
Svartlebee
Harmony? Are you fucking kidding? Millenia of paying Jizya, living as 2nd class citizens and facing persecution is not harmony.
NomDeDieuDePutainDeBordelDeSaloperieDeMerde
Still, mostly harmonious ! In Europe you got pogroms all over the middle age, jews were frequently massacred and spoiled, and the Shoah...
WinterOfMyDiscontent
They tried, the first deal was for a multicultural state. Rejected by the Palestinians.
arthurvanhoudt
IMHO much more rejected by other Arab countries at that time.
JustAnotherLonelyDude
Um - they did, just called it Jordan. Didn't pacify the Arab states, neither did Gaza, neither will WestBank
confanity
Pretty much any deal that didn't include "murdering all the Jewish refugees" was rejected by the local Arab population, though.
arthurvanhoudt
Thing is, murdering them all is still what many want! Like Iran and of course hamas too.
confanity
Things would be so much better without corrupt regimes using "It's the Zionists' fault!" to cover for / distract from their own failings.
Jackospade
Love Noam Chomsky. Cannot recommend his work enough.
JustAnotherLonelyDude
Including his vehement denial of atrocities in Cambodia? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial. Yeah, pass on his opinio
Jackospade
I'm on my 6th book of his & he's never once denied them. Acknowledges over & over again not only that they happened but US support of the KR
Jackospade
Furthermore, he criticizes the blending of US-responsible death statistics with the KR's and the underreported figures of the former.
whoisyourdaddy
The middle east has been at war since the beginning of recorded history.
Mou5e
Thats just not true.
whoisyourdaddy
pretty sure there were cave drawings that translated to 'fuck you' and 'no, fuck you!'
confanity
Um. Humans have been fighting humans since long before that. Instead of justifying violent reprisals, let's try to do better in the future.
whoisyourdaddy
Wow, you are so smart. You know stuff that happened before recorded history. I am impressed.
confanity
Wait until you hear that humans also had bones before we invented writing, and that you can learn things by studying bones.
confanity
2 I mean, seriously: it takes like 10 seconds of Googling to find examples. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-32890697
Huor
Yeah, poor Hamas, they're such innocent lambs.
spiffylookingnerfherder
Agreed. Americans would respond to occupation with much more dignity and restraint.
Huor
If Mexico fired thousands of missiles across the border, Uncle Sam would turn the place into a parking lot.
BootsDusty
Nelson Mandela's grandson
WesVulcan
He is standing for the right thing, but being Mandela's son does not make him moral. Although he is one of the better on Mandela's legacy
kisun
Muted -> meted
Fedotia
Israel was the last country to be buddy and trade military equipment with apartheid SA. Only country to not send a representative to...
Fedotia
...Mandela's giant funeral as well.
CongratsYouAreHereNow
Madiba* not Matiba
BootsDusty
Nice catch.
JanusLeeJones
The transcription was littered with errors tbh.
affectatious
Also, “meted out,” not “muted out.”
TheDayTheBrainStoodStill
He doesn't get moral authority by being related to a moral person. I agree with him because he's right, not because of who his grandpa is.
Mou5e
Pretty good role model to base yourself on though.
Arbitrarynamehere
Well his grandpa has a bit of experience dealing with apartheid states so it does give at least a teeny tiny bit of credibility here.
beautifulejaculation
Except the fact that his grandpa is Mandela gives him a voice that can be used to help
TheDayTheBrainStoodStill
I know...It gives him a voice because humans are fucking tribalistic apes who worship bloodlines. I know it's true. I don't have to like it.
ViciousOtter
Or he is pursuing the legacy of his grand father? I just red Ndaba Mandela wiki page, he doesn't seem like an attention whore.
TheDayTheBrainStoodStill
I don't mean in the slightest to accuse him of anything, *least* of all that. He seems to be doing the best he can. I dislike the *system*.
Inglouriousbystander
He had lessons from his grandpa that gave him the opportunity to fight back with words, this is not tribalism this is a man seeing bad shit
Inglouriousbystander
Happen and he's just speaking up, ur jumping on saying this man is this and that or only acting out of tribalism, just listen to what he has
whitebbwolf
I feel ya
Svartlebee
Chomsky is also a historical revisionist and tends to ignore historical facts when they get in the way of his narrative. For example,
chromed
You're right, Chompsky's not a perfect source of truth, but he nailed this one.
Svartlebee
Except as it turns out, he never said this. So we're both wrong.
BellsTheorem
He did though. So it's just you.
Svartlebee
He didn't though. He was quoting someone else and someone literally posted the link to Chomsky's site.
BellsTheorem
He was quoting a protest sign. Unless you know who wrote the protest sign the quote is attributed to Chomsky who was first to publish it.
tr26
You’re right. It’s far more damning. https://chomsky.info/20121201/
bolobass
Cool! Just like Svartlebee then!
Svartlebee
Nope. Chomsky was fucking flawed and based on his works preferred themes over strict historical accuracy. Just look at how he viewed
Svartlebee
2/ Cambodia. Dude literally ate up Pol Pot propaganda because they were anti-American.
Svartlebee
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial
BellsTheorem
Even without knowing the source the quote is still valid and true.
Svartlebee
People who downvote, just look at what he said about Cambodia. The dude supported Pol Pot even when it was clear something was wrong.
Svartlebee
Dude literally wrote to newspapers and editors telling them not to publish refugee stories because they were propaganda.
Svartlebee
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial
HootSloot
"emphasizing alleged Khmer Rouge atrocities and downplaying or ignoring the crucial U.S. role" you are really mischaracterizing the statemen
Svartlebee
2/ he also constantly disputed UN figures about the number of casualties, placing them way lower than official estimates.
Svartlebee
The US wasn't involved in Cambodia. Not in the way that Chomsky suggests.
HootSloot
No denial of genocide. Criticizing the media for only showing the atrocities committed by one side to further justify US involvement
Svartlebee
Except US involvement was pretty much non-existent for most of the killing fields.
Svartlebee
2/ ignoring the 1947war where Palestine and the Arab League attempted to destroy Israel.
tr26
You really are a one track commenter, aren’t you? I know I muted you when you lied about Israel in our discussion, guess I’ll do it again.
SlightChungus
Well it's not 1950 anymore and this shit happens every decade and most think it's a waste of human lives for little control of some farmland
my1rstlaptopwas34inchscreenup
farmlands?! blasphemy! this is holy sacred ground, and it's ours! /s
SlightChungus
It's every abrahmic religions holy land get the fuck over yourself and get in line y'all pray to the same mystery man in the sky.
my1rstlaptopwas34inchscreenup
wut
Svartlebee
It happened again with the 6 day war. And to this day 28 nations, mostly Arab League and Palestine, refuse to acknowledge Israeli statehood.
pigeonwiggle
it's like moving into a neighbourhood where everyone wants you dead. you start to wonder if maybe you shouldn't have moved there. :|
AlfredDPrince
Like Germany in the 1940s?
Svartlebee
And yet, no blame is cast on the neighbours for hating you as soon as you move in.
Svartlebee
2/ It's hard to make peace with people who want to see you gone.
pigeonwiggle
agreed. it's very difficult to make peace.
TheSoftPainterBoy
Kinda like how zionists refuse to see Palestinians as humans?
pigeonwiggle
"we didn't kill All of them, because we're the good guys."
pigeonwiggle
so what is your alternative? systemic slaughter? israel holds back on the complete eradication of palestinians and wants recognition.
DukePhelan
OstinPower2020
Looks like cancer spreading.
riften
I sure hope between 46 and 67 there wasn't a massive invasion with the intent of exterminating the Jews. Oh wait, there were two.
Schreibicus
I sure hope Palestinians didn't reject the UN plan to attack the Israel on day 1 with an overwhelming force to take it all. Oh wait they did
C0mmanderX
Now do a map of the us and Indian lands
leechdemon
This image lacks a LOT of context.
TheS4ndm4n
You could probably make a similar picture of Germany. Start in 1943. Don't give any context.
BecauseRonCadillacIsFrickinEpic
and then it all worked out and they had fun, right?
TheS4ndm4n
Wel. Those USSR guys weren't really nice. And there was an invasion in Normandy.
tlamstrike
Yup, ignores the decades when the majority of that land was part of Jordan or claimed by it. Same with the land controlled by the UAR.
ma8e
Like?
leechdemon
There were 3 wars between 1947-1967 between Israel and several of it's neighbors; it also isn't showing the land returned by Israel after.
leechdemon
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/e0/fd/aa/e0fdaa86a3323654eb9f92dfa342adfb.jpg
DonnaNobleInTheLibrary
It's about land distribution *within* Israel, though.
leechdemon
Choosing to ignore Israeli border changes when talking about Israeli land gains is deliberately misleading.
ma8e
We know that. Does it give Israel the right to run an apartheid state?
leechdemon
Nope. That's also not what the image (nor my comment) are about. You don't have to like the facts, but please stop disregarding them.
leechdemon
Also, it's a real dick move to ask for more information, then argue with the information you requested. If you don't want to know, don't ask
TakeAChillPill16
This would seem to suggest Jewish control of Israel/Palestine is inevitable. Not saying it's right, but saying the trend is fairly obvious
Smozzerz
What you are showing is what the Brits did to it. Remember there is A LOT of context behind this conflict. There is not one party to blame
arthurvanhoudt
This picture is NOT correct!! Look at map that belongs to UN resolution 181.
DukePhelan
Its under 'UN plan'
SilverBoyRockett48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYZjOuUnlU
arthurvanhoudt
What’s missing in movie = some “meta” info. US support @IL, Iran support @PS && Arabic world that in parts doesn’t give a rats ass about PS.
SilverBoyRockett48
they have not received logistical support for a long time, since all the doors are closed, the missiles you see are DIY from the Israeli 1/
SilverBoyRockett48
the only help it receives is technical and engineering and it is from iran
JustAnotherLonelyDude
The original 2-state solution. That worked well, let's try it again!
spiceass9000
The un deciding to give the Jews Israel after ww2 was one of those good intentions bad practice things
Svartlebee
That one on the left should say Mandate of British Palestine.
arthurvanhoudt
AND Palestine only was declared by PLO in 1964! But half of Arabic countries would not recognize it! Plus then 1967 didn’t help either.
narcoleptiKnickers
So, with there being no Israel before 1947, neither country should exist?
DukePhelan
And that changes... what?
Svartlebee
Because impying that Israel sporadically declared independence from an Arabic Palestine is a falsehood of history.
DukePhelan
That's not what it shows and you know it.
Svartlebee
Then why not label it correctly then, just to clear it up and give it's official name.
NotWelcomehere
HOW do they know it if there's no indication?
NotWelcomehere
It gives you context as to why it was the way it was and allows you a deeper view of the reality of the situation now. Don't be so defensive
DukePhelan
That not defensive I was asking what difference it made other then letting you dismiss the territorial grabs of Israel to the present day.
NotWelcomehere
It doesn't do that though? It's a look into how this started. "Good intentions" paving the way to hell & all...always consider consequences
Rule1TheDoctorLies
while it's an interesting pic, it's missing context and is therfore dangerously misleading.
thran87
Never said that. Not a bad line but he never said that
skrimg59
++
Neversaiditwasjustthis
He did quote it in his article: https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-the-assault-on-gaza/
BitRoyal
You miss every shot you don't take. -Michael Scott
Archeron
But, it's on the internet. It must be true. People can't tell lies on the internet.
Omegatherion
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln
moofs
Don't believe Lincoln - Abraham
Loadertron
Pretty sure these are the theme lyrics from Firefly.
johnefffd
NotABadLookingNarcissist
Doesn’t sound like him at all. There are some great vids on yt of his takes on the Israeli occupation tho.
BellsTheorem
It is him https://chomsky.info/20121201/
NotABadLookingNarcissist
“It is him http://chomsky.info/20121201” - NotABadLookingNarcissist (see what I did there?) thanks for the info tho ;)
folkscallmehi
Don’t come round here with all these *checks notes* facts
BellsTheorem
The fact is it was Chomsky https://chomsky.info/20121201/
BellsTheorem
He quoted it in an article https://chomsky.info/20121201/ I think it is fair to attribute it to him.
BitRoyal
You miss every shot you don't take. -Michael Scott
mortalxCOIL
credit the entity that created it, that's what is fair, that is what is expected. anything else is strait up misattribution.
BellsTheorem
You attribute to the author of the quote so they can be referenced. Attributing it to "some dude" doesn't work well for reference.
BellsTheorem
The only place it is recorded is in a Chomsky article and may even be an invention of Chomsky himself. So its attributed to him.
LuncheonsAndDragons
He seems to support the view, but you can't attribute a quotation to whoever is quoting it. That's lunacy.
TwoCheese
“You can’t attribute a quotation to whoever is quoting it”- TwoCheese
BellsTheorem
You attribute it to the first referenceable source. If you want to find the source how do you reference "Some guy with a sign"?
LuncheonsAndDragons
You do it like people usually do - "Anonymous." That way you don't bank on celebrity to give the quote legitimacy.
BellsTheorem
How do you find the source to verify if it is "Anonymous"? What if the source is a fictional depiction?
symmetry7
How do you know that he never said that?
Animorphs
24/7 surveillance
ronronner
for a start it's a totally un-chomsky thing to say
Ezzybells
How? I mean it's obvious he's not talking about himself since he's not Palestinian, but he is no fan of Israel.
ronronner
1) don't know why i've been downvoted. i've listened to hundreds of hours of chomsky debates and lectures. he does not talk like this at all
ronronner
2) he may be quoting a palestinian and in that case if i then quote this quote does that make me Noam Chomsky? no it does not.
CrypticalEnvelopement
Www.google.com
BellsTheorem
www.google.com says it was Chomsky by providing the article written by Chomsky. https://chomsky.info/20121201/
CrypticalEnvelopement
I wasn't implying if it was accurate or not, but simply that Google would be the tool to use to figure that out. Thanks for looking into it!
BellsTheorem
:thumbup: