enigma439
175070
7367
112
Feb 17, 2019 12:35 PM
enigma439
175070
7367
112
F18wub
You think paying a professional is expensive? Try paying an amateur.
TacosAreDelicious
xxJoshMoshxx
I've plugged in PCs for $50 because that was my minimum. BUT I would also try to fix other stuff/answer questions to add value to my service
blackGlovesMcCrazyBeard
Boot-lickers seemed a little triggered by this post. Anybody with an actual skill set understands what OP was saying.
tver33
And this is why your surgeon is not overpaid
WillAlwaysUpvoteTAWOG
Boss: "Yeah, let me tell you why I don't give a fuck about any of that..."
CommanderCaribou
I dont pay you anything unless I asked for it and have a contract. But I get what this is saying
laura4p0
All depends on how you charge, i.e. by the hour or by the job.
StealTow
ehhhh
theMonkeyTrap
Fun fact: what you get paid depends upon the opportunity cost of getting it done by someone else. Everything else is factored into that.
MrFnortner
Wow! A reader who understands the economics of it all. Well done.
SaltySoldier
I got fired from a company for questioning why my labor was billed at $600/hr and I was only paid $28/hr.
GamesAndRocks
A stone mason has hit a stone 100 times and it doesn't break. But on the 101st hit it breaks. That last hit isn't what broke it but 1/2
GamesAndRocks
The collective of all the previous hits is what did it 2/2
drh1138
Seize the means of production.
MadvilLord
I fear not the man who has practiced a thousand kicks once, I fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times. Sums up the meme
Belgiddybleh
Furniture repair: it used to take me 3 days to weave a rush seat. Now it's under 3 hours.
tzap
For me, you owe me for the deal we made and if you don't want the deal, don't make it and make it with someone else. Very simple. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
neilwatkinsfromaccounting
What that's too much money? We'll outsource to a third world for one-twenty-fifth the price
PeteButtigieg
There it is. Welcome to supply and demand.
WhenIsItNotAGoodTime4Pie
That’s a long plain ride you will be paying for to get them here to fix it.
Sasarious
Then have to pay to have someone whose actually good to fix it later! Genius
humaneffigy
I'll give you 7.25
SomeDetroitGuy
That's why if you're being paid hourly, someone with extensive experience is charging a buttload of money for their time.
undertow92182
I mean, it depends on what service is being offered. Some services have a limit to what people are willing to pay.
wazeewa
Only when there is choice. Sometimes people are only willing to pay because they have no other option.
MrFnortner
There are always options, including not doing the thing that costs too much. Every decision we make is a cost-benefit analysis.
wazeewa
Not doing things might not be an option either. Mechanics, telephone service, gas, just places with a monopoly in general
Neptuneflyer
Mechanics do not have a monopoly, there are at least 10 different mechanics within a 10 minute drive of me.
SodaSamtg
Unfortunately if you are skilled you make your job look easy.
ABluntForce
Always let the customer fuck it up first.
xmaneds
repairman fixes it quickly, cust. says: "what are we paying you for?!" // repairman fix it slowly, cust. says, "what are we paying you for?"
SodaSamtg
I have let customers tell me how to fix things and when that doesn’t work they listen to me.
themobileappisbroken
No, I still owe you for the minutes you worked, you can just charge more per minute that someone less experienced. That's how that works.
Gigo412
I think it went over your head
Wirdjos
Which is exactly what he just said.
HotDiggityDaffodil
mecrookedfrenchy
so, you're still at school, mate ?
stonestevecoldaustin
That the difference between skill and labor
TheFriendliestGiant
So that's just the original comment with more steps, then. Good contribution.
sevensided
Not really. The op has several connotations that would be wildly inaccurate. The reply is more concise.
Mouse314
You are correct, OP ignores supply vs demand.
MrFnortner
Actually, you're almost right. We pay for the value received. It matters not how long you worked or studied. Yes, work and study may ...
MrFnortner
...increase the value of the product or service, but we don't pay for effort.
MrFnortner
PS--In fact, more work effort may mean less competence.
GrimFinn
This is why an hourly wage is a preposterous idea. Get paid by the hr=get rewarded for doing the job slower. Better efficiency=less pay.
MrFnortner
Close. An hourly wage is based on an employer's assessment of average productivity. A slowdown would cause an employer to rethink the ...
MrFnortner
value received for the money spent and remove an unproductive employee from employment. Likewise a high value worker can earn a higher wage.
thegrimcoder
It took you 10 years to learn how to hand change back incorrectly?
0fucksgiven
I LOLed
mumumumumysharona
TheGoodKevin
If you're getting change for 30 minutes something has gone horribly awry
luanabrans
Or you picked the right slot machine!
thegrimcoder
Have you gone through a drive through?
ABluntForce
You use physical currency in a drive through? What is this, the '50s?
AdmJota
It takes a while to break a million dollar bill. But don't worry; I've got plenty of time.
cookieduster
Fry machines don’t run themselves
Vyrro
Yet
Syk0tik0ne
If $15 becomes minimum wage, the company will make those machines run themselves.
mitch0665
Raising the wAge higher helps the guy making nothing and if you look at countries that have done it companies are still profitable
rainballs
Yeah and still pay the cook to make sure it does it right.
scienceraptor
My dad told me he worked at a drive through in 1970 and got $2.45. $1 more than the minimum at the time. That’s equivalent to $15.86 today.
scienceraptor
So in addition to that, most of the modern expenses that exist (phone, internet) didn’t even exist then. So every bit was worth more
scienceraptor
Because you had less bills to have the money spent on. This means you could pay your bills and have more left over to spend or save
PhilipCoulson
Except the automatic fryer vending machines at the bowling alley, those things are dope!
thegrimcoder
Can I get a home model?
PhilipCoulson
I'd get so damn fat. Pop a toonie into a machine and have it automatically fry you up some mozza sticks? I would lose all sense of control!!
thegrimcoder
So fat...
imonewiththeforceandtheforceiswithme
This is why hourly wages and hourly billing are stupid. We should charge and pay for performance and results, not time spent
malexmatt
Hourly billing is done because time is what's valuable to the laborer.
imonewiththeforceandtheforceiswithme
I disagree. If I am good at my job & motivated, I could come up with a way to be more efficient. Then I’m penalized for working fewer hours
imonewiththeforceandtheforceiswithme
Hourly pay for labor encourages unethical behavior. “I could do this in 2 hours but I’ll drag it out to 4”
imonewiththeforceandtheforceiswithme
If, however you bill based on established quality of the deliverable, you encourage ingenuity to come up with the best product fastest
imonewiththeforceandtheforceiswithme
Or look at it from the other way: let’s say I’m an illustrator. You tell me you want me to draw you something by the end of the week. But my
malexmatt
If you're an IC, you work fewer hours and more contracts.
imonewiththeforceandtheforceiswithme
And you still can if you are paid based on agreed upon output quality vs hourly. It also puts you in control of our time vs the company
OlderDutch
Unless it's a 5 minute job
Iamtiger
Gotta bill for drive time. Gotta set appointments. 1hr is pretty standard but depends on where you live.
upvotehypnotoad
Just because it only takes *me* 5 minutes doesn't mean it didn't take me years to get good enough to do it in 5 minutes.
TomvsWorld
Yeah it takes me 5 minutes to install 3 way switches at the top and bottom of the stairs, you'll pay me 50 bucks though. That is fair.
astrangehop
How do you run the extra wire? Is the building not done?
SavagePatchKids
It's not my fault you're a premature ejaculator
MrPuckett
If I spend 23 hours a day on Imgur, its because I tried the outernet for 30 years. You owe me for that bullshit.
AlwaysOutnumberedNeverOutmemed
Ok here you go
nfamouskingsley
What’s the conversion from Schrute bucks?
MrPuckett
Is that the bitscoin all the kids are talking about?
theslowestsloth
That's not a coin, for first ...
imhavingsomuchfun
Woah. Let's not compare sizes. If it takes someone 30 minutes to do something you can do in 5 it means you're missing 25 minutes
ColClone54
Takes me 25 minutes to do something. Boss does it in 5 minutes. Takes me 2 hours to fix it. Boss does it again. sigh
imhavingsomuchfun
Of actual work. (Real argument told to me when I did something in 5 minutes that only took 5 minutes)
upvotehypnotoad
Yeah the other 25 minutes is someone fucking up or fucking off
ButterfaceTaintClown
I've got the best builder in the world. He's expensive for projects, like kitchens & extensions, but great detailed work. And he won't (1
ButterfaceTaintClown
Take money for a 5 minute job. He views it as aftercare. My dad recommended him after he did his kitchen. Shed. Conservatory. Bathroom. (2
whatspaulplayingtoday
I like it.
22HABU22
Where are you located?
serenityfast
That's fine when you already have a client you trust and is good business. Not for new clients who will just use/abuse you.
ButterfaceTaintClown
Oh, he's got a good relationship with my parents. He's one of only 2 people who are allowed to smoke in their house... he doesn't smoke (1
ButterfaceTaintClown
in mine and has never tried - I think just because he's sensitive to the generational difference... (2
Asteru
He’s investing a few minutes into getting future work by having a good reputation that way. His way of advertising himself.
thisiswhyicanthaveanythingnice
Instead, I spend an hour on YouTube, 2 hours repairing it myself, and save myself from awkward human interaction haggling price.
InTheBeginningWasTheNerd
Human interaction, eww.
Belgiddybleh
They wanted to charge me to install a microwave oven and it was as much as the oven costs. Just did it myself.
Zaunfink
What the fuck?
bongles
You see that on Amazon sometimes. 80 dollar installation on things that just plug in.
thisisagoldfish
Tbf some people need help with even that simple task.
Omeganeo
And I wouldnt want to be the guy who charges someone who legitimately needs that much help $80 to plug something into a wall.
thisisagoldfish
You’d be surprised I’ve been paid $260 to scoot a couch 10 feet.
samthing
As long as it's not plumbing or electrics in an apartment.
thisiswhyicanthaveanythingnice
If you don’t own the dwelling, those are not your problem in the first place.
jnxinthewoods
I've had at least two clients ask me if they had to pay for the time I spent "looking", or just when I was "actually" painting. SMH.
miskoze
Do you draw girls with dicks though?
jnxinthewoods
Would depend on the commission.
forelle
Tell them they pay you for beeing able to look in a certain way and they should only ask you if they can afford it.
jnxinthewoods
I've since changed my strategy. I'm pretty choosy now. Difficult clients are almost never worth the time.
Mythikun
What did you reply to them?
jnxinthewoods
I just said something like,"I have to look to know what to paint", or something equally lame. I've since learned my lesson.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
Ask them if they're paid for the time sitting behind the checkout or the time spent ACTUALLY beeping wares.
drzdeano
Who pays artist type painters by the hours? I thought it was commission?
jnxinthewoods
Commission has at least two different meanings in the art world, so not sure which you mean, but artists have to find a way to figure 1/
jnxinthewoods
their rates. Generally by a mixture of time taken, material expense, coverage and detail, and type of work. Hourly rates can figure in.
Samoht
As someone in enginnering, you have to pay me to even think about looking at it.
jnxinthewoods
That's what I currently practice. I've learned.
Cucumberclouds
I'd like to commission an artist to draw a family portrait (from photo), in a cartoon style as per the artist. What would you expect I pay?
Cucumberclouds
(this is an honest question. Considering as a bday present for partner) just wondering what I might be expecting to offer
jnxinthewoods
I honestly cannot answer that. Rates vary for a lot of reasons, and the style you're looking for is not one I'm familiar working with. 1/
jnxinthewoods
That said, I can advise to think of it like any skilled job, how professional do you want it to look, what kind of detail, how long the 2/
jnxinthewoods
artist needs to spend on it, and what kind of attention would you like them to aim at it? How much should a skilled professional get paid?
Clementine22
As a very vague guideline, I was told at art school to charge (basic wage per hour spent + cost of materials) x 3
ELAYDE
Did a few offices last week and my boss told me to slow down because it had only been an 1hr and I was almost done and he bid it for 4hrs. ¹
ELAYDE
² The office manager was cool tho, he understood it was just an estimated time and didn't mind that we finished in less than half the time.
ELAYDE
³ He understood that normal people would take a whole weekend, that's why we are professionals.
CorwinMacGregor
plus one story. also, love your use of superscript numbers to keep track of the posts. are those the ASCII ones?
ELAYDE
I don't know, if I switch to the ?123 (on my Android phone) and hold the number it has that as an option for 1-4. I just thought it was cool
Banannapants
If you can, stop charging by the hour and charge by project instead. The hourly rate only gives faster artists less money.
jnxinthewoods
I could get into my current pricing structure, but let's just say it's been a long time since I've dealt with the type I client I described.
jnxinthewoods
*of client
jnxinthewoods
And that second statement isn't always exactly true, either. It's not like there's a wage standard.
darkninja2992
And let's not forgets the oh so popular "you'll get exposure"
jnxinthewoods
Yeah, I still get that, even after decades of this being my sole profession. I don't even want exposure, and they never understand that.
Ryebread91
Jokes on you I just forwarded all your work for free! Hahaha enjoy the extra income!
jnxinthewoods
That's not how any of this works.
upvotehypnotoad
That's super angering just for photography, I can't imagine for anyone having to actually "craft" the work
jnxinthewoods
I generally do commissioned oil portraits, and I've had so many people complain,"But you got the talent for free!" No, bitch, this is skill.
Ryebread91
Talent is born skill is earned.
jnxinthewoods
Sure, sure. I charge for the skill.
upvotehypnotoad
There's a saying that goes like, "hard work and practice is often mistaken for talent" or something. Some people don't get it
jnxinthewoods
Exactly.
ttck
I'd ask 50 to install two plugs that are worth 3 each in your car. 150 after you installed them wrong yourself. 10 to foolproof your install
ttck
After you installed them the right way so I can give you warranty.
ttck
50 to install 6 worth of plugs? Yap. You pay for my knowledge and skills, and for the peace of mind that your car won't burst into flames
youknowthatonepersonwiththeface
Someone asked if I'd charge half since they already had the image they wanted me to etch. Like, dude, I still gotta actually do the work.
jnxinthewoods
It took me a while to learn and implement, but now if anyone questions my prices, I refuse the commission.
youknowthatonepersonwiththeface
I usually just tell em to fuck off. I charge very reasonable rates, for some pretty quality work. They don't like it, they can go online (1)
PrinceMoheezy
If that is a common objection why don’t you break your costs down... say 5% cost if you bring in their own pic or something... idk
youknowthatonepersonwiththeface
It's not. People usually come back after they attempt it. Having a template is barely any work, etching takes time, attention, and materials
youknowthatonepersonwiththeface
(2) and learn to make their own shit. Here's an example of a rehouse I did for a dwarfcraft fuzz I had (
)
mofomeat
That's pretty good. I haven't tried etching a hammond enclosure but I doubt mine would turn out like that.
jnxinthewoods
I pretty much accept commissions based on my interest in the piece and the client's attitude.
UrsulatheArtist
I have found a way to resolve this. I have what I call my day wage and my hourly. I usually give my client the fairer bill.
Ryebread91
Wouldn’t that be the same amoun? X per hour per day or total per day?
OohGeez
Probably a discount on the whole day for their commitment to a whole day.
beastofburidan
Sounds like a discount if it’s a whole day.. hour rate designed for smaller jobs maybe
beastofburidan
Go on
AGrammeIsBetterThanADamn
What are you guys waiting for? That's the whole thing. $150/hr or $1000/day.
NorthRex
ABluntForce
Well? We're waiting.
JosephStalinstwinbrother
For what?
ABluntForce
How that works, obviously. Like, how do you derive those figures separately?
JosephStalinstwinbrother
and it's probably a set amount that has always been used
UrsulatheArtist
https://www.bidsketch.com/blog/clients/hourly-vs-fixed/ well it depends on what you do and what the market competition charges
JosephStalinstwinbrother
He either charges them an amount per hour or per day. He then chooses which to charge them with by which one is cheaper. It's not that hard
ABluntForce
Do you know what I mean by "derive"? I mean, how do they determine *how much* to charge in the first place. The hourly one isn't that hard,
UrsulatheArtist
I didn't think it was but for many this is a new concept. Knowing your daily value can be humbling.
Klingon00
Mechanic fixes machine by striking it. Says it will be 5$ for hammering and $495 for knowing where to hammer.
bananerbread
Flat rate baby. That's how we make money. Working 40 hours a week and getting paid for 50-60.
JayEnfield
Assymetrical information and barriers to entry in your field. In capitalism, you MUST have those in order to profit. The bigger the better.
KillTimeAndLife
NotACyberman
I did this yesterday, furnace call walked in to a house pulled dirty filter and tapped on a stuck switch. People don't like paying for 2 min
NotACyberman
I could have been a newer guy that spent a lot of time on it with the same result, and a higher bill, but they will still complain about it
xmaneds
i never complain when every professional serviceman says "$150 minimum service charge for every house visit" (even if it is fixed in 2 mins)
NotACyberman
Thanks
Ninjainslippers
Doing some basic repairs on my car has also taught me that a mechanic's hour is worth about 8 hours of mine, plus 4 trips to the store.
johnson442
Actually a fair point! Well done!
ThePakistallion
Still... $500 for hammering is mad steep.
RVAALLDAY
Think of it this way, once word gets out on yelp about ridiculous prices they will go under or adapt to market price, internet rules all
makeSX
Well think of it this way: a newbie mechanic would have changed 4 parts and charged 8000$ for those and 400$ for labor. Better?
WellWellWellLookWhoItIs
Depends on how much you need the machine.
TheAlviss
Do it yourself then.
MuffinsSpelledBackwardsIsSniffum
You can hammer OPs mom for $20
[deleted]
[deleted]
BeerFueledAdventurer
Still... $20 for hammering OPs mom is mad steep
MuffinsSpelledBackwardsIsSniffum
Comes with a stack of pancakes afterwards
SherMattLockSmith
I believe this was an old story about Edison and an engineer coming to fix a turbine. The engineer marked the turbine with some chalk (1)
SherMattLockSmith
(2) And told Edison what to do with the information to fix it and walked off, charging 1000$. Edison demanded an invoice for his work...
SherMattLockSmith
(3) The invoice read "Chalk, 1$. Knowing where to mark with the chalk, 999$.". Edison paid the bill.
SherMattLockSmith
(4) Oh, shit, Ford, not Edison https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/charles-proteus-steinmetz-the-wizard-of-schenectady-51912022/
cerabeanz
Cool story. But my biggest takeaway from that article was "here is another person that Edison ripped off"
NotAPervert
I knew it couldn't be Edison the instant it mentioned him actually paying for a service rendered
IspellBananasbysingingGwenStefani
from your link. it was actually 10k not 1k however he didnt just show up there and mark an x. He spent 2 days assessing the problem
DrPhillipMahmoufWifarts
Thats why the part is $5 and labor is $75/hr..
Justdontevenrightnow
You must live far away from a city. Pep boys in NJ charges $125 / hr.
ChainmailleAddict
Also accounts for the upfront cost of the garage and tools needed, because 75$/hr would otherwise be ridiculous.
Saddamhuss
Yeah and if your car is old they don't give a fuck when you bring it. Or they charge the fuck out of you.
bananerbread
Lmao my job charges 140-175/hr
ChainmailleAddict
Do the people working there scare old ladies into thinking they can't drive their cars out of the lot or they'll explode, or...?
bananerbread
Nah quite the opposite. We're pretty up front with the customers. I should also mention I work at a dealership, not an independent shop.